IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-04-06
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03:41:55 <Supercheese> I'm not sure if it's even legit...
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06:09:02 <WOOHOO> "www.iBooter.us - Cheap, Affordable, Strong Output, Dedicated Servers. Probably Best Booter Online."
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06:41:33 <minsikcho> hi could anyone help me with crash? I'm using Windows 7, and just executing the file (openttd.exe) gives me immediate error
06:42:00 <minsikcho> I haven't experienced this error before a complete format of my device.
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06:55:39 <Supercheese> this "jerry66" needs an ipban
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07:18:15 <Rubidium_> Supercheese: what would an IP ban accomplish?
07:19:05 <Rubidium_> segment wise I'd need to IP ban 0.0.0.0/0 to cover the last two IP addresses, which kinda defeats the purpose of IRC
07:40:02 <NGC3982> One could trust the fact that he might not be bright enough to use a different host.
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07:55:30 <guru3> Just stumbled on my autopause patch for 0.3.6. Man, how time flies.
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08:46:25 <joris2> can anyone help me compiling openttd on the raspberry pi?
08:46:47 <joris2> I'm having an error saying i'm missing lzma
08:47:01 <joris2> thelzma command is available though
08:47:55 <frosch123> then you likely need the development files of liblzma resp. libxz
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08:48:54 <joris2> haven't checkes for an xz-dev though
08:49:13 <frosch123> might also be called libxz-dev
08:51:31 <joris2> first need to wait for my sysupgrade to be done
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08:55:59 <joris2> not available for the ARM version
08:56:17 <joris2> ok, I need to go, need to figure this out later
08:56:23 <joris2> thanks for the help already
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11:59:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25148 /trunk/src/script/api (script_base.cpp script_base.hpp) (2013-04-06 11:59:27 UTC)
11:59:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5517]: [Script] XXBase::Chance function did not work for large values (>65535)
12:10:22 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25149 /trunk/src (5 files) (2013-04-06 12:10:16 UTC)
12:10:23 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: replace 'magic' 'has rating' bitcheck by descriptive function
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12:36:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25150 /trunk (7 files in 4 dirs) (2013-04-06 12:36:33 UTC)
12:36:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5514]: [Script] The was no way to differentiate between a cargo-station combination with or without rating, so introduce [AI|GS]Station::HasRating and let GetRating return -1 when there is no rating
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13:15:28 <frosch123> he noticed that he entered a room with 124 people and says "hello?" into the silence
13:15:33 <frosch123> then he blushed and ran away
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13:49:28 <andythenorth_> What did I miss?
13:50:23 <V453000> some beer researching, unicorns falling from the sky, pretty much nothing important
13:51:47 <frosch123> i played a firs game
13:52:25 <frosch123> somehow ports are quite important
13:52:45 <frosch123> though once you use them, everything goes gung ho
13:52:56 <andythenorth_> They're a massive shotcut for game design :p
13:53:48 <frosch123> basically i took a bauxite mining with production > 100
13:53:54 <frosch123> moves stuff to port
13:53:59 <frosch123> which goes gung ho with metal
13:54:09 <frosch123> then metal to workshop
13:54:21 <frosch123> now i have masses of all three supplies with like 3 lines :o
13:55:05 <andythenorth_> They make it easy to provide complete chains with limted industry types :p
13:55:16 <andythenorth_> Also easy for players :)
13:55:24 <frosch123> well, 128x256 map, so full is no option :p
13:55:56 <frosch123> i am just wondering that it is quite hard to get double production :p
13:56:02 <frosch123> either it's normal or gung ho :p
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15:58:03 <HellTiger> since i have set difficult to hard, i get ai error message, "no suitable ai found to load" can i ignore this or disable this
15:58:06 <HellTiger> or is my game fucked?
15:58:34 <Zuu> You can go to difficulty settings and set AIs to 0
15:58:43 <Zuu> Or you can go to content dowload and dowload some AIs.
16:00:45 <HellTiger> i am still pretty new to the game
16:01:06 <Zuu> AIs could learn you new things
16:01:40 <Zuu> You can set their construction speed to slow.
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16:14:56 <andythenorth> frosch123: using any trucks in your game? o_O
16:21:29 <frosch123> i will likely use trams for the farms and ranches
16:21:43 <frosch123> but i did not play so long
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16:23:19 <AcidWeb> I have small question about source code. Maybe somebody can help me.
16:24:00 <frosch123> i would say, just ask him
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16:24:19 <frosch123> i guess "somebody" is both genders
16:25:33 <AcidWeb> Im looking for a place to push one NetworkClientSendChat(NETWORK_ACTION_CHAT_CLIENT, DESTTYPE_CLIENT, CLIENT_ID_SERVER to server after client is connected and already in-game. Where I can find a spot to safely add this?
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16:48:29 <Rubidium> why would you want to send a chat message to the server? (assuming you are the server)
16:49:17 <V453000> nothing beats a friendly chat with bots
16:51:05 <AcidWeb> Rubidium: Server commands.
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16:54:52 <monneke> How must i load the wagons please ???
16:55:38 <monneke> This is a new game for me. How must i load the wagons please ???
16:58:05 <Rubidium> monneke: wagons will load automatically
16:58:33 <Rubidium> when they are at a station that provides the cargo the wagon takes
16:58:51 <Rubidium> which requires the station to be close enough to the source of the cargo (industry / houses)
16:59:32 <monneke> No it wont work ??? Don't load automaticly ???
17:00:05 <monneke> Station is right next to industry ?
17:00:24 <Rubidium> then show us the savegame so we can look at it
17:01:09 <monneke> Message is allways to few orders in schedule ???
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17:02:36 <monneke> How must i show it ???
17:02:58 <V453000> hint: the more ? you type does not mean you get better answer
17:04:39 <monneke> I will look at it later i have a visitor sorry thanks anyway...
17:07:33 <V453000> you have nerves of platinum Rubidium :D
17:07:55 <Wolf01> I remember the first time with TT Classic, I tried to run 2 trains on a single rail... then I learned from the AI how to build the waiting tracks
17:10:10 <Rubidium> V453000: good luck they aren't nerves of rubidium on a rainy day ;)
17:10:48 <AcidWeb> So i guess nobody currently alive here know code well enought to answer my question?
17:10:48 <Rubidium> though you might want to look up that reaction if you're not familiar with it
17:11:47 <Rubidium> nobody knows enough of the thing you want to accomplish exactly
17:11:56 <Rubidium> because depending on that the location will change
17:12:11 <Rubidium> ... however... I now have an appointment with the doctor
17:13:26 <frosch123> V453000: is it possible to transport rubidium on wetrails?
17:13:53 <AcidWeb> I need send private chat message to server after successful connection to server.
17:14:20 <V453000> frosch123: you can try
17:14:47 <Alberth> Wolf01: you as well? I also learned signals from the AI :)
17:15:07 <AcidWeb> I can not describe it easier ;p
17:15:49 <Wolf01> I crashed some trains forcing them out of the depots before noticing those weird little shiny basterds
17:16:31 <Alberth> I wondered for quite some time why the second train would not come out the depot :)
17:19:53 <andythenorth> another MP GS game? o_O
17:20:00 <andythenorth> or design a new GS?
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25151 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-06 17:45:17 UTC)
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <DorpsGek> faroese - 528 changes by FastNinja
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> italian - 1 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> spanish - 3 changes by Terkhen
17:46:33 <AcidWeb> OK. I think i found right place
17:46:58 <AcidWeb> I added that to NetworkRecvStatus ClientNetworkGameSocketHandler::SendMapOk()
17:56:29 <AcidWeb> Anyway - Thank you and good night.
18:01:53 <Rubidium> pff... AcidWeb couln't wait until I returned from the doctor?
18:10:46 <Snail> I'm wondering... what is the "time since last maintenance" for a newly-bought vehicle?
18:11:19 <Rubidium> there's no second hand stuff
18:11:46 <Wolf01> mmmh, it might be an interesting feature
18:12:10 <Snail> I thought so too, but I did some tests, and it doesn't look like that...
18:13:51 <Snail> for instance, I set up 2 recoloring schemes, A to be used if the engine's last maintenance is <20, and B to be used otherwise
18:14:41 <Snail> wait I'll do some more tests on my side
18:17:52 <frosch123> hmm, do we already have a regex engine in ottd? :s
18:17:56 <Snail> ok looks like rubidium is correct, I just double-checked
18:19:29 <Snail> another thing :) when can I recolor a vehicle (i.e. change the recoloring callback)? is it just inside of a depot (like when I change a vehicle's length) or can I do it at any time?
18:19:59 <Rubidium> frosch123: only if the regex is ^$ ;)
18:20:32 <Alberth> and all string literals
18:20:55 <frosch123> yeah, if they start with ^ and end with $ :)
18:21:50 <frosch123> strchrnul is a gnu thingie, right?
18:22:04 <frosch123> "strchrnul() first appeared in glibc in version 2.1.1." <- ah, yeah
18:23:10 <frosch123> hmm, there is gnu in my unicorn lasagna
18:30:51 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25152 trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp (2013-04-06 18:30:45 UTC)
18:30:52 <DorpsGek> -Fix-ish [FS#5520]: remove stray reservation from savegames affected by FS#5510 et al. upon loading
18:31:52 <Alberth> use HasCargoRating <-- use #HasCargoRating
18:36:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25153 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-06 18:36:41 UTC)
18:36:53 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5522] (r24487): [Win32] Don't statically link to SHGetFolderPath as it may not exist.
18:36:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25154 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2013-04-06 18:36:45 UTC)
18:36:58 <DorpsGek> -Fix: [Win32] Don't store invalid paths in the search path list.
18:37:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25155 trunk/src/os/windows/win32.cpp (2013-04-06 18:36:49 UTC)
18:37:02 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [Win32] Improve SHGetFolderPath emulation.
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18:40:27 <andythenorth> all based on ~7 years play length
18:40:36 <andythenorth> - connect a certain amount of track?
18:40:48 <andythenorth> - have a certain average vehicle speed?
18:40:53 <andythenorth> - transport all available cargos?
18:41:15 <andythenorth> - ensure every town has food shop (depends on FIRS)
18:42:51 <frosch123> connect a certain amount of track?
18:43:05 <andythenorth> can GS check that?
18:43:07 <frosch123> drag across 2kx2k map and win? or what?
18:43:34 <andythenorth> railroad tycoon did it by having high build costs
18:43:43 <frosch123> sorry, none of your ideas make sense :p
18:43:54 * andythenorth is offended mortally
18:44:21 <frosch123> vehicle speeds are vastly different between sets
18:44:58 <frosch123> you can try for something like "ensure all industries of type X have 80% transported"
18:45:06 <frosch123> but firs would break that :p
18:45:29 <frosch123> wrt. 4, i don't like towns :p
18:45:57 <andythenorth> build 3 secondary industries, and transport n tonnes from them? o_O
18:46:05 <V453000> have X good transported monthly
18:46:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: sounds like sv
18:46:35 <frosch123> V453000: short intervals do not work
18:46:44 <frosch123> long trains result in quite varying transportation
18:47:04 <frosch123> unless you set the goal so high that you need 200 trains :)
18:47:30 <andythenorth> why don't we play SV more?
18:47:35 <andythenorth> we have been playing NCG mostly
18:47:42 <frosch123> because i prepare most games :p
18:48:04 <frosch123> i felt sv was more for singleplayer
18:48:09 <frosch123> but we can try again :)
18:48:18 <andythenorth> I like it for MP
18:48:33 <V453000> what does sv exactly do?
18:49:12 <frosch123> required you to build n industries in town x, produce a amount with each and b amount in total in one quarter
18:49:34 <frosch123> basically it dooms a single town into a track mess
18:50:04 <frosch123> since the script tries to pick a town with not too many tiles associated
18:50:57 <andythenorth> frosch123: make it several towns?
18:51:14 <frosch123> the only thing you should not do though is setting "challenged cargo type" to something other than "secondary"
18:52:37 <frosch123> multiple towns do not add anything
18:52:51 <frosch123> you can just fund multiple companies if you want
18:54:35 <V453000> I cant really think of any goal which could be interesting
18:54:54 <frosch123> build one of each engine type?
18:55:05 <frosch123> and make them have twice the profit as their running cost
18:55:13 <V453000> have 1000 trains turning profit?
18:55:35 <frosch123> you do not neet a script for such goal
18:55:43 <andythenorth> still NCG is not boring yet
18:55:59 <frosch123> andythenorth: how about the build one of everything goal?
18:55:59 <andythenorth> but it's a pretty linear challenge
18:56:12 <andythenorth> frosch123: pretty interesting
18:56:13 <frosch123> would totally spoil cloning and copy&paste and friends :p
18:56:17 <andythenorth> one of *every* vehicle?
18:56:24 <frosch123> every available model
18:56:35 <andythenorth> and *all* have to be profitable? :O
18:56:45 <andythenorth> have fun with HEQS :)
18:56:52 <frosch123> V453000: can the logic train make profit?
18:57:09 <andythenorth> frosch123: I think it's good
18:57:15 <andythenorth> not sure it can be done in 7 years
18:57:18 <V453000> nope, it cant haul cargo
18:57:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25156 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2013-04-06 18:57:18 UTC)
18:57:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5495, FS#5497]: if a vehicle had some cargo, and it would try to unload without actually unloading, the vehicle would just not load any cargo at the station (fonsinchen)
18:57:41 <andythenorth> hmm, how would transfer credits apply?
18:57:42 <V453000> but I believe if you autoreplace it to some other train, it will keep the profit
18:57:52 <frosch123> andythenorth: yes, they would apply
18:57:54 <V453000> autoreplace logic train yearly and it will make money? :D
18:58:18 <frosch123> but yes, i guess the 100% needs to be configurable
18:58:40 <frosch123> also you should not play it in 2500 with engines never expire enabled :p
18:59:37 <frosch123> oh, we could make it a bananas requirement
18:59:42 <V453000> not to mention that nuts doesnt expire regardless of your settings
18:59:59 <frosch123> every set author has to upload a savegame which proofs that every engine has a use
19:01:42 <V453000> I think I know exactly how many sets will remain
19:01:49 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can also do nocargoal for all cargos, and the least transported cargo decides the medal :p
19:02:06 <V453000> that is actually awesome idea frosch123
19:02:17 <andythenorth> could just do competitive NCG
19:02:25 <frosch123> we never did nocargoal for mail btw
19:02:29 <andythenorth> the GS just acts as referee
19:02:49 <frosch123> ottd is no competive game
19:02:56 <frosch123> you need silly area claiming and such
19:03:08 <frosch123> it could only work if you head for different cargos
19:03:17 <frosch123> but then it is most likely imbalanced :p
19:03:32 <frosch123> i got a bug report about sv, that it is imbalanced :s
19:03:38 <andythenorth> it's too easy to grief competitive :P
19:04:19 <V453000> what does your 100% station rating do when 2 people service a thing? the second one gets nothing?
19:04:49 <frosch123> i think they both get half
19:04:56 <frosch123> third get nothing anyway iirc
19:05:13 <andythenorth> I like the 'use all vehicles' idea
19:05:35 <andythenorth> would be a curve ball if a new vehicle is introduced 1 month before game end :P
19:05:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: i don't think it has any replayablity value
19:05:55 <andythenorth> play it until you've one
19:06:08 <V453000> you would have to start in 2100 tbh
19:06:29 <frosch123> andythenorth: start in 1492, instant win :p
19:07:07 <frosch123> we should try a ncg with mail
19:07:28 <andythenorth> can GS detect cargo origin - final delivery point? I guess not?
19:07:30 <frosch123> if that works, the all-cargo thingie might work
19:07:32 <V453000> or even pax, doesnt matter, just multiply by 10
19:07:40 <frosch123> andythenorth: sv does something like that
19:07:40 <V453000> pax has a bigger number = more fun!
19:08:03 <andythenorth> I am thinking about coast-to-coast challenges (cross a continent with continuous service)
19:08:08 <V453000> hm yeah local traffic breaks that if you dont check final delivery
19:08:59 <frosch123> V453000: we had pax, pretty boring, it's as if you play with only 2 challenged cargos
19:09:01 <V453000> .nut sounds totally coincidental
19:09:09 <frosch123> but i have no experience with mail transport
19:09:17 <frosch123> no idea at all about the transport amounts
19:09:18 <V453000> mail is the same as pax ...
19:09:28 <V453000> point is, you have to be required to take it to another town
19:09:33 <andythenorth> the other idea I have is, instead of having time based, just keep playing until you lose. The GS makes the (annual) cargo goals progressively harder.
19:09:38 <V453000> mail = 1/10 of pax more or less
19:10:22 <Alberth> isn't that somewhat like the city nutsing scripts?
19:10:22 <andythenorth> not so good when you want to go to bed at a fixed time :P
19:10:36 <andythenorth> probably similar
19:10:39 <frosch123> i think the limited time is the only thing which makes our sunday evening games work :p
19:10:46 <andythenorth> I find city nursing a boring concept
19:11:04 <Alberth> andythenorth: openttd does have a save option, you know ;)
19:11:04 <V453000> time limitation isnt openttd compatible tbh
19:11:15 <V453000> openttd isnt about having 200 apm
19:11:28 <andythenorth> 'provide commuter service to every city'
19:11:30 <frosch123> V453000: that's exactly what sv and ncg try to change
19:11:50 <frosch123> that's the only reason why they are fun: they turn ottd into a different game
19:11:55 <V453000> transport stuff in -time-limit- is always about speed
19:12:01 <V453000> Alberth: actions per minute
19:12:27 <Alberth> ah, indeed I agree fully with you :)
19:12:52 <andythenorth> V453000: I am testing a FIRS savegame bug report - lots of wetrails in use :P
19:13:17 <Alberth> all cargo gets wet? :)
19:13:26 <V453000> andythenorth: it is Sylf ... :)
19:13:40 <V453000> besides, everybody seems to be using wetrail right now
19:13:55 <V453000> (Sylf is one of openttdcoop members)
19:14:15 <frosch123> you mean everyone on coop and related channels?
19:14:25 <frosch123> or did you see it on a goal server? :p
19:14:40 <V453000> well all servers which use nuts, and coop ofc
19:14:51 <V453000> most czech servers use nuts
19:15:02 <V453000> and our stable server is quite casual too
19:20:45 <andythenorth> can't figure out if there's a FIRS bug :P
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19:27:48 <andythenorth> but player says yes
19:31:20 * andythenorth ponders a truck set
19:31:34 <ToBeFree> what is "wetrail" even
19:32:08 <V453000> rails which are slightly wet see nuts train set
20:14:04 <Wolf01> gah, I think I'll spend this evening too on 9gag and related
20:55:10 <Wolf01> now replace that blue gradient with a nice screenshot
20:56:46 <andythenorth> problem is, I have to use opengfx
20:57:02 <andythenorth> which I don't like
20:57:06 <andythenorth> silly old copyright :P
20:57:20 <andythenorth> "don't like" is a bit harsh
20:59:47 <V453000> what do you mean by that? where do you have to use it?
21:00:50 <V453000> you mean you cannot post screenshots of ttd graphics? you can afaik
21:01:00 <V453000> that would be seriously stupid if you couldnt even screenshot things
21:01:14 <V453000> not to mention that there are screenshots with that everywhere
21:01:31 <andythenorth> I can't ship GPL docs using TTD original graphics
21:03:54 <frosch123> i think a single industry on the right of the title is enough
21:04:03 <frosch123> it does not need to be a full featured screenshot
21:04:12 <V453000> why couldnt you ship GPL docs when you created the screenshots? you couldnt screenshot anything in that case
21:04:25 <frosch123> just put the cement plant there
21:04:25 <andythenorth> frosch123: I am about to commit something like that
21:07:52 <frosch123> readd the "Industry Replacement set"?
21:07:56 <frosch123> slightly smaller font
21:08:08 <andythenorth> something like that ^ ?
21:08:09 <frosch123> "FIRS industry replacement set"
21:08:25 <frosch123> i like the old subtitle "New Industries and Cargos for OpenTTD" better
21:08:39 <frosch123> "FIRS" alone is too short
21:08:55 <frosch123> "Industry Replacement Set" just needs a slightly smaller font, so the image still fits
21:09:24 <frosch123> and i would use the cement plant instead of alu plant :)
21:14:21 <andythenorth> I was going to randomise them
21:14:26 <andythenorth> some javascript thing
21:14:32 <frosch123> that's also nice :)
21:14:44 <frosch123> just do not use the "no image" ones :p
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21:21:50 <V453000> andythenorth: can the beautiful pixels be licked?
21:22:01 <andythenorth> due to EU regulations
21:22:34 <andythenorth> I just don't provide any warranty
21:24:26 <andythenorth> can't decide if the grid should be kept or not
21:25:42 <frosch123> i guess if you want to randomise it, it's easier to keep :p
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22:06:50 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25157 /trunk/src (fontcache.cpp table/misc_settings.ini) (2013-04-06 22:06:44 UTC)
22:06:51 <DorpsGek> -Feature: Determine the default font height for vector fonts according to the minimum readable height that the font provides.
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22:15:34 <frosch123> i wonder whether unicode is based on those tables
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continue to next day ⏵
