IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-04-03
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08:41:30 <peter1139> Desperate NOW™ service
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12:23:54 <V453000> hello! is there any way how to make all odd values evaluate the same way as 1: 3: 5: ? kind of dont want to spam all the way up to 255
12:27:25 <V453000> hm yeah NML doesnt approve :s
12:27:33 <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot evaluate for both "last vehicle" and "all odd vehicles" at once
12:28:01 <Eddi|zuHause> for "all odd vehicles" just add "& 1" to the variable you are checking
12:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> but then all even values will result in "0"
12:28:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so you need to check for "last vehicle" in a separate switch
12:28:42 <V453000> position_in_consist_from_end & 1 ?
12:29:08 <peter1139> heh no. just use a bit of logic
12:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's possible. but seeing his current stage of logic, i'd not make it too complicated :p
12:30:19 <V453000> see, Eddi understands my situation
12:31:48 <V453000> I already have 4 switches or how many there, so ... :p
12:35:07 <V453000> it says it doesnt like the gateway :( 502
12:35:40 <planetmaker> dunno why we have that issue again. Was gone... but seems to be there again :S
12:36:08 <planetmaker> or probably only with replies to pastes... and that is seldom used
12:37:16 <V453000> how the hell is cookies called in czech :DDD sec
12:38:31 <V453000> dunno, opening in other browser :D
12:38:54 <V453000> yeah that is what I am doing pm :) but thanks
12:39:18 <V453000> I have there many other switches added to that, mainly random of colours, and then colours attached to spritesets, and there even was some other thing formerly :D
12:40:46 <V453000> ._. adding 30k lines of code and like 10k more sprites seems to have slowed down my compiling to like 10 minutes :(
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12:46:18 <V453000> works =D except some stupid alignments
12:46:27 <V453000> but that isnt related :)
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12:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, nmlc has issues with larger code files
12:48:54 <Eddi|zuHause> which is why i have this totally elaborate and unwieldy system of partial compiles set up
12:50:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i think CETS is a bit more than that
12:50:53 <V453000> well with that many engines .. :)
12:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> currently i have 146k lines in .gnml files
12:51:11 <Eddi|zuHause> which doesn't include the spritesets
12:51:13 <V453000> most of my stuff is wagons
12:51:45 <V453000> wagons for every cargo, X loading stages, X variations of every cargo, and X generations of the wagon itself ... in the last case 12 colourful variations of the whole :D
12:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried doing the colours with recolour maps?
12:52:45 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of separate spritesets for each colour?
12:53:54 <V453000> no ... I always post-edited them after recolouring ... this time I even didnt so a recolour map would probably be a lot smarter solution there
12:54:26 <V453000> it is done now but whenever I will need to edit it I will probably try that option
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13:02:48 <V453000> should I make a new issue or is it related to some?
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13:05:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there was a fix recently about crashing station tiles
13:05:36 <planetmaker> the PublicServer was updated after that
13:05:57 <planetmaker> so either it's the savegame being corrupted from before. Or it's something else which triggers the same thing
13:06:41 <V453000> it is weird from my point of view :d other tiles around it are safe to remove, that one isnt
13:06:57 <Eddi|zuHause> was something about stale reservations, i think
13:07:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if so, then forcing a train onto that platform should resolve it
13:08:48 <planetmaker> it might be corrupted savegame...
13:08:52 <planetmaker> from before the fix
13:09:11 <V453000> it is a station tile without rail, cant even replace it
13:09:20 <planetmaker> can't overbuild w/o crash?
13:09:28 <planetmaker> then you have to leave it or start a new game, I guess
13:10:05 <planetmaker> Or build the correct direction of rail station on it
13:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: anyway, sounds like you should make a bug report
13:10:12 <planetmaker> maybe... dunno :-)
13:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: remove all station sets, then it should revert to a station with rail :)
13:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> (warning: horrible file corruption ahead :))
13:11:33 <planetmaker> lol. That's so crazy. But actually might work
13:11:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (In Theory(tm) it should allow re-adding the station sets afterwards, and restore the other stations. but must be the same grf order)
13:12:06 <V453000> what I tried so far was to overbuild in both directions, and re.reserve the station (even though it cannot be accessed)
13:12:13 <V453000> trying newgrf changes now
13:12:45 <V453000> when I remove ISR it doesnt crash
13:13:53 <V453000> tried to remove ISR, then add it again, it crashed upon opening station window, without even clicking the actual tile :D
13:15:55 <V453000> removing the tiel before adding ISR again seems to be safe
13:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> "Dutch consumer debt amounts to about 250 percent of available income. By comparison, in 2011 even the Spaniards only reached a debt ratio of 125 percent"
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13:38:58 <Ristovski> whats the package name for nmlc? when compiling opengfx it says it's missing
13:43:53 <Ristovski> huh? "No rule to make target `ogfx1_base.gfx.dep', needed by `ogfx1_base.grf'. Stop."
13:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> something missing?
13:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember ever trying to compile opengfx
13:45:10 <Ristovski> what would be missing tho
13:46:34 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, what compile environments do you usually use?
13:48:01 <Eddi|zuHause> for when you ever compile anything
13:48:33 <Ristovski> and im on Debian Wheezy X64
13:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you did, it just works here
13:51:15 <Ristovski> nwo it says "nmlc: "sprites/base/base-3701-smoke-explosion.pnml", line 30: alternative_sprites-block requires 2 or 3 parameters, encountered 4"
13:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> wrong/old nml version?
13:51:44 <Ristovski> I just installed it from the repo
13:51:53 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't mean anything
13:52:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it likely needs 0.3.x
13:56:39 <Ristovski> works, thanks Eddi|zuHause!
14:35:01 <Ristovski> why do I need graphics on a dedicated server? (I did do ./configure --enable-dedicated) and I am running with openttd -D
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15:10:32 <Rubidium> Ristovski: because "graphics" isn't only "images", but it also contains some data for certain stuff such as the landscape generators
15:12:29 <Sacro> 'On the download page you will also find the complete change log...' <- where?
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15:33:01 <V453000> hm what does the & 1 exactly do?
15:33:22 <V453000> e.g. position_in_consist & 1
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15:40:53 <michi_cc> Sacro: In my world 1 is 0b00000001
15:41:19 <V453000> those numbers I understand but they are far off my world so .. :P
15:42:15 <TinoDidriksen> & 1 takes the 2nd bit only on Tuesdays.
15:42:36 <michi_cc> & 1 is basically the same as if you'd take the number % 2 (modulo 2), i.e. the remainder of the (integer) division by 2.
15:43:14 <michi_cc> (And now Eddi can hit me because the mathematical modulo isn't at all the same as a remainder :p)
15:44:24 <V453000> luckily Eddi is missing atm :P
15:46:27 <Sacro> I never specified a base
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17:19:15 <Ristovski> I like how ships can pass through each other
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17:45:25 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25139 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-04-03 17:45:15 UTC)
17:45:26 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 3 changes by Marcadana
17:45:28 <DorpsGek> faroese - 177 changes by FastNinja
17:45:29 <DorpsGek> galician - 16 changes by Michi
17:45:30 <DorpsGek> macedonian - 4 changes by Ristovski
17:46:32 <frosch123> you can highlight yourself once per day :)
17:55:29 <Ristovski> any idea how big zbase's repo is?
17:57:13 <frosch123> i would guess 500MiB
18:00:26 <frosch123> oh, i am confusing it with ogfx+trains
18:00:44 <frosch123> i have no idea about zbase, never had a checkout
18:08:12 <Terkhen> I would guess it is many times larger than that :P
18:09:35 <frosch123> i am at 160 MiB, and do not have 10 revsions yet
18:09:49 <frosch123> thought maybe the first revisions are bigger
18:12:24 <Ristovski> frosch123: tho zbase is missing lots of sprites
18:12:31 <Ristovski> and the menu icons are *huge*
18:13:35 <Wolf01> where's Alberth? I want my Alberth! ok, I'll pass to the next character... hello Belugas, how are you?
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18:13:40 <frosch123> r10: 200 MiB, r20: 226 MiB
18:13:47 <frosch123> Wolf01: nice one :)
18:15:18 <frosch123> Alberth: Wolf01 asked about you in the same second as yoi joined
18:15:34 <frosch123> [Wednesday 03 April 2013] [20:13:36] <Wolf01> where's Alberth? I want my Alberth! ok, I'll pass to the next character... hello Belugas, how are you?
18:15:35 <frosch123> [Wednesday 03 April 2013] [20:13:36] Join Alberth has joined this channel (~hat3@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl).
18:16:10 * Alberth planned that very carefully :D
18:21:25 <Alberth> Ristovski: my zbase is 2048740 kb, ie 2.0GB according to 'du'
18:21:41 <Alberth> and it's not the latest one :)
18:22:04 <Ristovski> but... that's the size of a OS
18:22:16 <frosch123> Ristovski: that's the size of the whole history
18:22:23 <frosch123> do you only want to know the latest revision?
18:22:46 <Ristovski> and why does it keep the whole history anyways?
18:22:59 <frosch123> because we use version control systems
18:23:05 <frosch123> like every sane person does
18:24:07 <frosch123> Ristovski: see, keeping the whole history only requires twice the storage memory
18:24:19 <frosch123> and you know about every line or pixel who and why it was done
18:27:07 <Ristovski> Alberth: it is, but not if you need to download shit on a 50-250kb/s connection
18:27:18 <Ristovski> and RARELY I get like 2mb/s
18:27:23 <frosch123> Alberth: 5 seconds too late :p
18:28:14 <Alberth> Ristovski: try a 38k4 modem :p 20MB/hour :)
18:29:40 <Alberth> but yeah, for collections of 32bpp pixels, your speed is quite useless
18:30:02 <Alberth> especially at the scale of zbase :)
18:30:17 <Ristovski> Alberth: I was downloading zbase (package) for like 30 minutes
18:30:27 <Terkhen> Ristovski: you may want to clone an early revision and start updating in small intervals if you don't want to do it all at once
18:35:18 <Alberth> hmm, your problem may be worse; the build stuff used to be in zbasebuild, which has zbase and opengfx as subrepos
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18:36:33 <Rubidium> Alberth: so he actually needs to clone zbuild ;)
18:36:56 <Ristovski> aah screw it, I wont clone it
18:37:00 <Ristovski> would have to waste hours
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18:48:59 <andythenorth> even in suggestions forum
18:50:19 <Belugas> ho... hello Wolf01 :)
18:50:48 * Belugas thinks andythenorth suffers from white page syndrom ;)
18:57:22 <Zuu> frosch123: I can reproduce FS#5519 (town_cmd assert) with seed 9. However it is probably connected to my town density settings among others. The assert in question is triggered when a generated town have zero population but OpenTTD still fails to delete it. I'm currently trying to figure out why it fails to remove the town.
18:58:38 <frosch123> i would try a breakpoint at town_cmd.cpp:2648
18:58:57 <frosch123> conditional whether ret.Failed
18:59:18 <frosch123> then you can check which kind of tile it fails to clear
19:00:46 <Zuu> frosch123: I had one in 2648 and figured out that it fails on tile 639911.
19:01:29 <Zuu> Now I blame myself for not inserting a compiled condition into the code instead of using a slow conditional break point which slows down the loop a lot. :-)
19:02:28 <frosch123> you could take the time to fetch some coffee :p
19:03:36 <frosch123> that tile is water for me
19:04:20 <andythenorth> Belugas: you mean fear of the white page?
19:05:26 <Zuu> frosch123: Here it's a MP_TUNNELBRIDGE
19:05:35 <Belugas> indeed, andythenorth, indeed :)
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19:06:20 <andythenorth> see a blank page, fill it
19:07:05 <Alberth> kids are very good at that :)
19:09:59 <frosch123> Zuu: ok, i try to make a scenario which enforces a bridge :)
19:15:39 <frosch123> still does not crash for me
19:16:53 <frosch123> it's important to disable extra_dynamite
19:17:13 <frosch123> so, problem is likely in tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp:721
19:29:21 <frosch123> hmm, so when are towns allowed to remove their own bridges :)
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19:30:34 <Zuu> Owner of the bridge is MAX_COMPANIES (16) while it check for owner OWNER_TOWN (15)
19:33:31 <Zuu> hmm, sorry. Owner of bridge is MAX_COMPANIES. And it is 0x0F which is 15.
19:33:48 <Zuu> Both MAX_COMPANIES and OWNER_TOWN is 0x0F
19:34:01 <Zuu> I don't know where I got 16
19:34:37 <Zuu> ah... _current_company is 16.
19:35:39 <Zuu> So at line 717, road_owner change from 16 to 15.
19:37:47 <frosch123> (rt == ROADTYPE_ROAD && !Company::IsValidID(_current_company))) return CommandCost(); <- so, that silly check implicitly allows OWNER_NONE to remove roads :s
19:40:48 <Zuu> Did you trace it down to that check?
19:41:30 <Zuu> I see that the if-statement on line 721 evaluates to true and that CheckTileOwnership(tile) then returns false.
19:42:45 <Zuu> My extra_dynamite is set to false.
19:44:17 <frosch123> the town_cmd thing is the real problem, OWNER_NONE vs OWNER_TOWN
19:45:28 <frosch123> the tunnelbridge_cmd should fix that towns could potentially remove bridges with tram from other companies
19:49:11 <Zuu> So the first fix will execute DeleteTown as OWNER_TOWN instead of OWNER_NONE? Are you sure that doesn't add any new bugs?
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19:49:43 <frosch123> but it is the correct thing to do
19:49:48 <frosch123> the stuff is build as OWNER_TOWN
19:49:54 <frosch123> so it should also be removed as OWNER_TOWN
19:50:20 <frosch123> GrowTown() also switches to OWNER_TOWN
19:56:13 <Zuu> frosch123: I don't follow how your second fix works to stop OWNER_TOWN from destroying tram bridges owned by companies. However it may still be a correct fix as I'm a bit tired now. :-)
19:56:47 <frosch123> the "return CheckTileOwnership(tile);" is supposed to always fail, just to give the right error messag ehwne extra_dynamite is disabled
19:57:00 <frosch123> but it would succeed for _current_company = OWNER_TOWN
19:57:17 <frosch123> and thus it would not do the ret = CheckOwnership(tram_owner, tile); below
20:00:10 <frosch123> andythenorth: is there a forum thread? :p
20:00:21 <andythenorth> all good sets start with a forum thread
20:00:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then CETS cannot be good
20:00:47 <frosch123> no, i mean, is there a forum thread guessing what would make up firs 2.0 ?
20:00:52 <V453000> me is insulted as well
20:01:13 <frosch123> you have a release thread at least
20:02:36 <Zuu> I can confirm that your fix to town_cmd.cpp fixes my test case.
20:02:42 <andythenorth> don't 2.0 threads mostly guess at what *wont'* be in the next version?
20:03:04 <andythenorth> how about 'guess what's in BANDIT'
20:03:17 <andythenorth> vote now if you want a new truck set
20:03:28 * andythenorth is mostly serious about BANDIT
20:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "FIRS 2.0 should implement cargo destinations, taking over industries and a tetris minigame"
20:03:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I'll get right on that
20:03:57 <andythenorth> I did ask frosch123 for clickable industry tiles
20:04:18 <andythenorth> tetris is possible if an industry can handle user clicks
20:05:50 <V453000> if there isnt unicorn tile then dont even bother
20:06:24 <Eddi|zuHause> or even better: a warehouse with a sokoban minigame ;)
20:06:56 <Zuu> andythenorth: When GS was new, someone made a mini-game script published at forums. It placed a tree in a square area. When you demolished it, it would place a new random tree in this area.
20:07:49 <frosch123> tree-tic-tac-toe :)
20:09:48 <frosch123> it says: c++, goals, scripted scenarios, interactive tutorial
20:11:25 <andythenorth> I mentioned that a few weeks ago :P
20:11:30 <andythenorth> technically, 1.3.0 is 2.0
20:12:03 <Zuu> Isn't it 1.2 which is 2.0?
20:12:12 <andythenorth> maybe 1.3 is 2.1
20:12:27 <frosch123> well, i like the year thingie better :p
20:12:29 <andythenorth> if it was up to me, I'd announce in forums that we made a mistake
20:12:40 <andythenorth> and say that surprisingly, 2.0 is now doen
20:12:53 <Rubidium> frosch123: but 1.3 are the 13 in 2013 ;)
20:13:08 <frosch123> yes, that's what i mean :)
20:13:09 <Zuu> frosch123: So next release will be 2.4 to accomondate for that?
20:13:22 <andythenorth> why not count in hex?
20:13:45 <frosch123> andythenorth: you had the chance with firs, and failed :p
20:13:59 <andythenorth> I should delete it
20:14:01 <frosch123> Rubidium: now we only need to make releases quarterly
20:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: that means in 2020 we need to release 2.0
20:14:14 <andythenorth> so nobody wants a truck set
20:14:24 * andythenorth will play flash games then
20:14:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: what was that thing we were working on?
20:14:37 <frosch123> andythenorth: code bananas 2.0 :p
20:14:56 <andythenorth> I thought it was seriously insanely hard?
20:15:29 <andythenorth> bottle is dubious?
20:16:11 <Zuu> andythenorth: The up side with musa is that it is free from Django :-)
20:16:28 <frosch123> unchained from django? :p
20:17:02 <V453000> im afraid the WETRail has opened a gateway to a whole new dimension of WTF, and the gate seems to be impossible to close
20:17:16 <andythenorth> V453000: I was worried that migh happen
20:17:20 <frosch123> V453000: you need canals which blend in with them
20:17:32 <andythenorth> you need ekranoplancats
20:17:32 <frosch123> to green stuff on the coop server next to the ships looks weird
20:17:46 <andythenorth> you need actual catamarrans
20:18:03 <V453000> you mean when used on water with canals
20:18:35 <V453000> myeah, I just wouldnt use them that way
20:18:42 <V453000> the canal will be there anyway
20:18:48 <V453000> even if I use full water tile
20:19:20 <andythenorth> diagonal rivers?
20:19:24 <andythenorth> I would draw them
20:19:41 <frosch123> V453000: anyway, if i understood wetrail correctly, it has no curve penalty, right?
20:19:46 <V453000> until rivers are re-buildable they are like unusable anyway
20:19:58 <V453000> it has normal rail penalty
20:20:13 <frosch123> hmm, ok, maybe it does not matter with the low speeds
20:20:30 <frosch123> ecranoplanes could have higher curve penalties
20:20:34 <andythenorth> shall we ditch the water transport?
20:20:37 <V453000> 88kmh is the shortest curve
20:20:40 <andythenorth> in favour of v's solution?
20:20:53 <andythenorth> what could go wrong?
20:21:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: you mean, replace cargos with railtypes? :p
20:21:16 <V453000> this what I did should be just something extra tbh
20:22:10 * andythenorth likes bold steps :P
20:22:10 <andythenorth> ah, a FIRS translation update :)
20:22:10 * andythenorth has something useful to do
20:22:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: everything is cargos is railtypes
20:22:58 <andythenorth> V453000: did you do it because you could? Or because water transport is lame?
20:23:13 * Alberth puts andy on the right track
20:23:30 <V453000> and I am specifically famous for hating on ships on our servers
20:23:45 <V453000> so ... just got the idea of doing it and followed it
20:24:03 <V453000> you hate ships because they have 103708 pixels and you drew them :)
20:24:11 <Zuu> V453000: So now you are going to provide a substitute for ships on the #openttdcoop servers?
20:24:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25140 trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp (2013-04-03 20:24:10 UTC)
20:24:17 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5519]: Towns are build as OWNER_TOWN, so they also need to be removed as OWNER_TOWN.
20:24:27 <andythenorth> and because they go in stupid non-diagonal routes
20:24:35 <andythenorth> and get trivially stuck
20:24:35 <V453000> I wouldnt say that Zuu, in fact I am not even sure if I will continue drawing ships
20:25:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25141 trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp (2013-04-03 20:25:06 UTC)
20:25:13 <DorpsGek> -Fix: When extra dynamite was disabled, towns would be allowed to clear bridges with trams.
20:25:18 <V453000> hint: water transporter does not necessarily have to be a boat
20:25:18 <Zuu> V453000: Will not your water rails trains look like ships?
20:25:44 <andythenorth> do some giant ducks
20:25:46 <V453000> some of them will be off the chain of wtf
20:25:47 <andythenorth> like chuckie egg
20:26:45 <V453000> you guessed one of them zuu :)
20:26:53 <frosch123> [22:24] <Zuu> V453000: So now you are going to provide a substitute for ships on the #openttdcoop servers? <- check the save in fs#5518
20:27:06 <Zuu> V453000: Or even better tug boat with loggs floating behind?
20:27:24 <V453000> second one except there will probably not be tug boat but something else instead
20:27:27 <Zuu> And when it's emtpy a rope is floating behind?
20:27:27 <V453000> or maybe even tug boat
20:28:01 <V453000> atm I am drawing a water turtle convoy
20:28:06 <V453000> your argument is invalid
20:28:14 <frosch123> i see, V will turn toyland into rollercoaster land
20:28:20 <frosch123> including water rides
20:29:22 <V453000> almost there frosch123
20:29:35 <V453000> I didnt yet say that the tugboat subsitutes for a unicorn goldfish
20:31:55 * andythenorth plays chuckie egg
20:33:20 <Zuu> Interesting @ save in fs@5518
20:37:31 <frosch123> Zuu: actually i mean 5520
20:37:35 <frosch123> but maybe its the same
20:39:17 <Zuu> A passenger station with WETRails make me think of flum rides :-)
20:39:47 * andythenorth not very good at chuckie egg :(
20:41:05 <frosch123> hmm, maybe V is a vegarian, and wants to spoil us with the cute livestocks in nuts :p
20:46:12 <andythenorth> imagine if V does a truck set :P
20:46:37 <frosch123> the monorail in nuts is essentially a truck set
20:46:51 <frosch123> at least those i saw on monday nocargoal game
20:48:05 <frosch123> V453000: did you consider magic carpets for transport?
20:50:18 <frosch123> i am just trying to trick you into aircraft :p
20:55:42 <andythenorth> so what do I do with strings like STR_GRF_URL?
20:55:46 <andythenorth> which are in english.lng
20:55:52 <andythenorth> and also every translation :(
20:55:57 <frosch123> you can translate them to localised urls
20:56:05 <V453000> turtle convoy anyone?
20:56:30 <Ristovski> V453000: add magic carpets, as frosch123 suggested
20:56:46 <andythenorth> frosch123: ho ho, localise all the docs :P
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20:57:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: i thought they are auto-generated? :p
20:57:27 <frosch123> just feed another language :p
20:57:32 <andythenorth> it's not a stupid suggestion
20:58:09 <frosch123> just one which involves work with questionable effect :)
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22:59:51 <Zuu> Hmm, maybe I/someone should write some python code that detects which libraries a script or library imports and then verify the dependencies it sets upon upload.
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23:00:36 <Zuu> A such check would then not be able to handle conditional imports which squirrel can do, but I doubt that any AI/GS uses an if-statement to decide which library to import.
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continue to next day ⏵
