IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-30
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01:43:29 <GauHelldragon> pineapples look so weird
01:48:38 <GauHelldragon> they look like they are fake
02:05:29 <HellTiger> radioactive space vegetables
02:48:44 <erebus> At what length is a truck feeder better than a train feeder?
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02:54:15 <GauHelldragon> :o what is a train feeder
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09:12:34 <andythenorth> 1m 28s to build FIRS with nml :(
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09:15:49 <andythenorth> I am considering converting it back :P
09:16:06 <andythenorth> hmm. I could have my python script do loads of nfo magic
09:16:16 <andythenorth> it might take 1m 28s though :P
09:18:04 <alandarev> how do I open debug window?
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10:44:39 <andythenorth> FIRS html docs are 745KB, should I ship them with the grf?
10:44:46 <andythenorth> the grf is 3.3MB
10:44:59 <andythenorth> who pays bandwidth around here? :o
10:45:40 <V453000> some andythenorth does
10:45:48 <V453000> not sure if he is aware of it though, he has slight debt
10:47:08 <andythenorth> I owe ottd €1.06m
10:47:51 <andythenorth> maybe not compressed
10:47:55 <Wolf01> how do you come to have 745KB of html? what did you put in it?
10:48:14 <andythenorth> 408KB compressed
10:48:18 <andythenorth> but I can compress the images more
10:48:19 <Alberth> "please transfer €0.10 to unlock the next industry" :)
10:48:50 <andythenorth> "premium subscriptions"
10:49:03 <andythenorth> €1 to paypal, the rest to ottd :P
10:49:09 <andythenorth> access to all grfs instantly
10:49:13 <andythenorth> otherwise 30 day delay :P
10:49:15 <Ammler> maybe simply make 2 bundles, no need to add it to the bananas bundle
10:49:32 <andythenorth> new make target? bananas?
10:49:51 <Ammler> hmm, maybe also no need to bundle it at all...
10:49:55 <Alberth> make bananas sounds good :)
10:50:02 <Wolf01> I hate the pay-to-win model and all the micro-transactions to unlock something, I feel more convenient to purchase a game for 50€ and already have all instead of paying it 30€ and still have to pay to unlock everything
10:50:17 * andythenorth has a headache with the makefile
10:50:21 <Alberth> Wolf01: indeed, I would not pay
10:50:26 <andythenorth> it has very little idea about deps :P
10:50:33 <andythenorth> so either makes nothing, or everything
10:50:40 <andythenorth> I guess I broke it
10:50:55 <Ammler> Wolf01: as long as they sell a bundle, I do not really care, some people like to pay less
10:52:07 <andythenorth> 'upgrade FIRS makefile' would be a nice project for someone :)
10:52:24 <Ammler> I never got, why someone would pay for additional downloads like more/better weapons or alternative look
10:52:42 <LordAro> apparently, people do
10:53:00 <LordAro> unfortunately for those of us who dislike it
10:53:30 <Ammler> well, that is the advantage you don't need to buy it
10:54:23 <Ammler> IMO, it is most silly to buy seomthing to make a game easier (better weapons)
10:58:38 <LordAro> surprise! people like to cheat if you give them the chance :)
10:59:06 <Wolf01> I did it twice, just to find out that I can live without it since most of the times there are only cosmetical changes, but on DarkSiders2 I was really satisfied (but I had to purchase all the DLCs to find out which armor is more suitable to my play style)
11:03:35 <V453000> cosmetic changes are fun :)
11:03:49 <Wolf01> yeah, but pnly if they are free
11:04:13 <LordAro> did someone mention hats?
11:04:14 <V453000> well they can be hard to get in the game over time, or quickly purchaseable
11:06:39 <V453000> I like how heroes of newerth is doing it, they just let you get "silver coins" where a cosmetic change can cost from 500 to 3000 of them. 3000 new, 500 older ones. You can purchase them with real money or gather silver coins slowly, and even better if you just wait or dont have the silver, it will get cheap sooner or later :)
11:06:51 <andythenorth> nothing much changed
11:07:04 * andythenorth needs bug reports ahead of...you know...1.0
11:10:25 <V453000> how to add 10k lines of code within 24 hours
11:10:27 <V453000> I should write a guide
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11:26:52 <andythenorth> check devzone commit :P
11:31:45 <V453000> andythenorth: pigs at orchard? :D
11:32:45 <Alberth> pigs are too heavy for that :)
11:35:07 <andythenorth> seems to be just a uk thing :P
11:35:24 <andythenorth> pigs are standard here in orchards :P
11:36:27 <V453000> I want my own pig-tree too :(
11:36:54 <V453000> Alberth: your argument is invalid, pigs can flu
11:39:47 <frosch123> at least pigs with a horn
11:45:16 <V453000> p.s. feeding me with retarded ideas might not be the best thing to do as I am in a very April mood >:D
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11:48:26 <V453000> only thing saving the current situation is that I cant seem to fit a tree on a wagon, especially not to fit a unihorned pig on it afterwards
12:02:18 <andythenorth> FIRS 1.0 flies on trees
12:05:32 <V453000> Alberth: that helps :P
12:17:16 <andythenorth> not like a corndog
12:18:40 <V453000> that isnt an animal :(
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12:47:10 * andythenorth cuts 200KB of FIRS docs
12:50:12 <Rubidium> because openttd doesn't have a html renderer yet, right?
12:56:25 <andythenorth> and to save you / us bandwidth :P
12:56:49 <andythenorth> all that changed is I cut down the palette in ~55 images
12:56:57 <andythenorth> surprising difference in file size :P
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13:00:54 <alandarev> andythenorth: any idea where I can see cargo ID's for FIRS?
13:01:10 <andythenorth> funny you should ask
13:01:39 * andythenorth is pleased it has a purpose
13:01:48 <andythenorth> alandarev: let me know if you can find them :P
13:01:53 <andythenorth> they're in there
13:02:30 <andythenorth> look in code reference
13:02:47 <alandarev> thanks and well done on docs :)
13:02:58 <andythenorth> what are you going to use the IDs for?
13:03:13 <alandarev> andythenorth: have some fun in playing FIRS + CityBuilder GS
13:05:34 <alandarev> I so wan someone making NewGRX which would change profit from cargo delivery not on the distance between stations but distance to nearest source
13:05:46 <alandarev> should probably post it on forum maybe someone is interested in
13:12:24 <alandarev> can I use ctrl when pressing duplicate vehicle to apply Shared Orders logics?
13:14:51 <andythenorth> what are official names of Tropic, Arctic etc?
13:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> subtropic and subarctic
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13:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> alandarev: have you tried it? (or read the hint text)
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13:21:31 <alandarev> Eddi|zuHause: tried what? :)
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13:46:32 <alandarev> Where should I post NewGRX suggestion, in Suggestions or Graphics board?
13:50:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by michi_cc :: r25128 trunk/src/stdafx.h (2013-03-30 13:50:46 UTC)
13:50:53 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: [Win32] MSVC 2010 comes with stdint.h.
14:05:12 <V453000> newGRF not newGRX, I already told you :s
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14:30:23 <__ln__> ummmm... what happens if i clone a Windows 7 installation from a 512-b HDD to a 4k HDD?
14:35:11 <TinoDidriksen> __ln__, dunno, but if dd fails there's ntfsclone (which is superior anyway).
14:35:17 <V453000> it isnt newGRX and I doubt newGRF can actually do that
14:36:22 <V453000> the only thing newGRF can define in cargo is cargo multiplier cost, and decay rate I think ... I might be wrong though
14:37:44 <alandarev> V453000: i think someone metioned two days ago that new versions allow control of costs calculation
14:45:53 <andythenorth> there is a cb for custom profit calculation
14:49:58 <frosch123> yes, but quite limited
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15:41:07 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25129 extra/musa/musad.py (2013-03-30 15:41:01 UTC)
15:41:08 <DorpsGek> [MUSA] -Fix: uploading an update failed at the server side
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16:20:58 <LordAro> what is you lot's thoughts on cmake ?
16:23:35 <__ln__> it causes as much trouble as it solves
16:24:08 <michi_cc> Rather useless as long as e.g. a cygwin compiled cmake binary will only produce cygwin makefiles and an MSVC compiled cmake only MSVC project files. Who thought of crap like this?
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18:24:58 <alandarev> suggest me interesting Industry NewGRX's to play please :)
18:31:27 <Alberth> there are 4: the default industries, opengfx+industries, FIRS, and ECS
18:31:46 <alandarev> Alberth: what is that recent PBI or something?
18:32:04 <Alberth> oh, that could be one too, sorry pikka
18:32:23 <Alberth> I never tried that one
18:32:25 <alandarev> Alberth: what it's name? I can't find in bananas
18:33:05 <Alberth> pikkas basic industries iirc
18:34:10 <alandarev> not in the list :( Also is column Downloads glitched? FIRS was downloaded only 147 times, I hardly believe it comapred to some 20k downloads of Cars Sets
18:34:39 <Alberth> FIRS got a new version today
18:35:04 <Alberth> big download counts usually mean the set has not been touched for a long time
18:35:22 <Alberth> too many people download everything instead of just what they need
18:36:27 <Alberth> have a look at the download count of the "staircase" heightmap. I uploaded as a testmap, it is absolutely useless for playing
18:36:57 <Alberth> I didn't advertise it anywhere :)
18:36:59 <alandarev> Alberth: oh, new version = downloads counter reset?
18:37:23 <Alberth> alandarev: not sure. Either that, or it starts a new count for each version
18:37:36 <alandarev> Alberth: lol at staircase :D
18:37:48 <Alberth> ie older versions are still there, for people playing old versions
18:38:15 <Alberth> so I guess those versions still have a count
18:38:17 <michi_cc> Each version has its own download count IIRC and the web interface only shows the data for the most recent one.
18:38:33 <alandarev> sweet, thanks for explaining. but I so want some sort of "rating" sorted NewGRF'es
18:39:02 <Alberth> got some time on your hand to build us a nice rating system?
18:39:20 <alandarev> Alberth: downloads count kind of one of those, if they did not reset...
18:39:46 <Alberth> nah, too many false positives
18:40:01 <alandarev> Alberth: certainly, but still better than nothing ;-)
18:40:19 <michi_cc> alandarev: Not at all, because apparently it is a mortal sin to not download everything you can see.
18:40:55 <alandarev> michi_cc: okay, then simple 5 star rating could help us
18:41:03 <Alberth> I'd bet that over 50% of the downloads are never ever used in a game
18:41:05 <michi_cc> I.e. the download count is quite proportional to the time the file is online.
18:43:25 <alandarev> Experts hard - industries 0.4 193171 times < as an example No description, no readme, no link to a topic. wtf it does??
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25130 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-30 18:45:30 UTC)
18:45:40 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41 <DorpsGek> galician - 21 changes by Michi
18:45:42 <DorpsGek> korean - 16 changes by telk5093
18:45:43 <DorpsGek> welsh - 34 changes by kazzie
18:51:21 <Alberth> probably from some server for competitive games
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19:56:43 <andythenorth> someone should write a better version of this
19:56:48 <andythenorth> then FIRS docs are done
19:57:24 <andythenorth> probably less stuff
20:01:52 <Alberth> use .rst file format ?
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20:30:20 <alandarev> andythenorth: I rly want Power Station to make CityBuilder more realistic with FIRS.. Can I achieve it somehow?
20:30:40 <alandarev> andythenorth: FIRS adds more fun, but now my towns no longer need 'electricity' which is sad :(
20:47:14 <andythenorth> alandarev: code a power station
20:49:44 <andythenorth> alandarev: everyone starts coding somewhere ;)
20:56:00 <alandarev> andythenorth: if you could help me I don't mind coding power station... But I really can not dedicated many days into this which would require if doing alone
20:56:24 <andythenorth> there are others who want the power station too
20:56:30 <andythenorth> @seen supercheese
20:56:30 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: supercheese was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 22 hours, 42 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Supercheese> i.e. you can deliver cargo even if not directly in the catchment, or some such
20:56:36 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: flherne was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 3 days, 21 hours, 2 minutes, and 23 seconds ago: <FLHerne> TBH, most patches I've seen/poked just seem to use 200 for the save version...
20:57:09 <alandarev> andythenorth: see, then you definitely should consider doing it :) and I am even offering to do some work on it
21:01:14 <alandarev> andythenorth: can you clear few things out for me? 1. Gas Stations, Builders Yard, Hardware Store can consume as much resource as I deliver? 2. Primary Industries close down? Can I prevent it from happening? I don't feel like it is needed in a city builder game?
21:01:40 <andythenorth> 1. yes 2. no they don't
21:02:27 <alandarev> oh then it sounds like it perfectly fits into my city builder script, only thing I would love is power station :)
21:05:13 <alandarev> I see there is a i_powerstation.pnfo file in source
21:11:56 <andythenorth> that is probably not much use :)
21:12:14 <andythenorth> you could do this with a simple nml-based newgrf, that just turns on the default power station
21:13:07 <alandarev> going through eGRVT set, how come 2 horses carriage have 10hp? :DDD
21:13:41 <alandarev> and 4 horses have same 10hp but just max speed from 20km to 26km :D
21:15:17 <Rubidium> the same reason a small airport is only 12 times bigger than a bus stop
22:05:04 <alandarev> andythenorth: :) kk, site looks clean and tidy
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