IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-31
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00:33:40 <XziDesk> hey guys, i disabled vehicle breakdown in openttd.cfg but the settings aren't being applied to the game
00:33:45 <XziDesk> they remain at Reduced
00:39:55 <valhallasw> XziDesk: those are just the standard settings for a new game; you need to set them in the game itself if you're continueing a game
00:40:13 <XziDesk> this is on a dedicated server in windows
00:40:56 <XziDesk> where would i change it on a map that's already running?
00:41:19 <valhallasw> I think it's also possible using the command window (but I'm not sure how); the easiest might be loading the savegame, opening it in a normal game, changing the settings, saving the map again and loading it in the server
00:42:18 <XziDesk> would that mess up the existing companies?
00:43:03 <valhallasw> I don't think so, but I wouldn't dare to guarantee it
00:43:33 <XziDesk> alright, i'll give it a try on an autosave
00:44:42 <valhallasw> rcon password "set breakdowns 0"
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02:26:33 <Bonez305|2> after installing openttd on a server can i delete the deb file?
02:34:57 <HellTiger> its like a zip file
02:35:04 <HellTiger> you have extracted it while installation
02:36:17 <GauHelldragon> how much iron do i need for each tile of track
02:37:28 <HellTiger> funny, i cant understand this question. but i am newcomer in this game GauHelldragon
02:37:39 <GauHelldragon> i am just kidding :)
02:39:29 <Bonez305|2> whats the best material to transport at early game 1950?
02:40:35 <HellTiger> on bottom right you can click on Next
02:41:15 <GauHelldragon> coal is always the best material to transport :d
02:42:27 <HellTiger> look at the passenger income top right
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07:14:55 <NGC3982> I like this. I recently reinstalled my server with Ubuntu, and in all of the work forgot to check if my dynamic IP was changed or not
07:15:27 <NGC3982> Had to fix a few things while traveling, so i used my parents macbook to connect back home, realizing it was not possible.
07:16:16 <NGC3982> So, remembering that i advertise my servers, i downloaded OpenTTD on OSX in thought of being able to see my own (new) IP by finding my own servers in the advertise list.
07:17:02 <NGC3982> "OpenTTD can not be opened. It's not from the App Store."
07:18:07 <__ln__> right-click on the icon and choose open.
07:21:05 <GauHelldragon> how much does it cost to get the second bulldozer upgrade
07:21:21 <GauHelldragon> i can't find anythinga bout it on the wiki
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07:52:41 <Alberth> GauHelldragon: shift + click gives you a cost estimate
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08:29:55 <alandarev> Alberth: you always are here, morning :)
08:30:11 <alandarev> What are municipalities, how do they work, where i switch it on/off?
08:30:41 <Alberth> hi alandarev, and no I am not always here; some times I need to work :p
08:32:01 * Alberth just learned what "municipalities" are
08:33:07 <Alberth> there is a settings how lenient they towards tycoons destroying their trees, and there is a setting to allow bribing them
08:33:40 <Alberth> Hmm, would be fun if we had such a setting for the real world :p
08:39:34 <alandarev> Alberth: no, but I was trying to understand this sentence in city builder topic: "The possibly really major exploit can happen when you allow muncipalities. You can cause a second town to become a muncipality of your main town if this is turned on. That second town then only requires the MTR to grow, which means easy population. I think the muncipality does end when the secondary overtakes the primary in population though, so it's not unlimited.
08:42:36 <Alberth> no idea really, I don't care for competitive play nor for city growth
08:42:55 <alandarev> :( But but it's fun! what do you care for then?
08:47:27 <Alberth> co-operative play, and serving industries, with chains of industries
08:48:28 <alandarev> oh I definitely agree about co-operative, TTD is a great platform for this. But towns are so fun :) Meeting their demands is harder than just deliver a cargo from A to B :))
08:49:02 <Alberth> try NoCarGoal or Silicon Valley scripts :)
08:50:17 <Alberth> and for a real challenge, I write computer programs :p
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09:10:57 <Rubidium> Joyeuses Pâques andythenorth ;)
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10:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried turning it off and on again?
10:23:07 <Chrono> xD i have another problem
10:24:08 <Alberth> our problem is that we don't know yours until you tell us
10:24:20 <Chrono> i trying to run windows ce based device with
10:25:09 <Chrono> os ce 5.2 winmo device
10:25:45 <Chrono> does anyone know how run 1.2.3 on ce
10:26:36 <Alberth> sorry I don't know, but perhaps someone else does
10:27:23 <Alberth> is not useful, that channel is for source code patch discussions
10:27:32 <Alberth> also, the devs are here as well
10:28:07 <Chrono> ohh,i sucefully ran 0.7.5
10:28:38 <Chrono> but heavily outdated version,cannot let me download nothinig
10:29:09 <Chrono> yes,but last compiled version for winmo ce devices
10:29:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so where did you get your version from and how did you try to install it?
10:29:43 <Chrono> i have Pocket PC and want in mine pocket
10:29:53 <Chrono> decided to find how to
10:30:22 <Chrono> through the forum i found latest 0.7.5
10:30:46 <Chrono> what should work on portables device
10:31:33 <Chrono> got openfiles from site
10:32:46 <Chrono> game runs fine on that device but have limitation,so i need advices
10:32:48 <Alberth> The official openttd version does not support portable devices afaik.
10:32:48 <Alberth> There are some people trying to port the program, with varying degree of succes.
10:33:28 <Alberth> you can find them in the tt-forum site
10:34:59 <Chrono> but do not exist executable file for ce 5.0? i need just that
10:35:24 <Chrono> at basic that is windows
10:36:04 <Alberth> You can download the normal Windows distributions, but I don't know whether they are of use
10:36:28 <Alberth> otherwise, try to find the topic for your device at tt-forums, and ask there
10:36:46 <Alberth> if that fails, build a program from the source code for your device
10:37:07 <Alberth> (and you may want to report about that in the forum too)
10:37:49 <Chrono> yes,it pitvy that staly on 075 version
10:39:28 <Chrono> just one ask current version uses another compression?
10:39:49 <Chrono> coz the files are in .tar
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10:43:12 <Alberth> .tar can be used for data, such as newgrfs etc. It's not compressed though, .tar just keep all data together in one file
10:43:48 <Chrono> but files in that folder are grf
10:44:21 <Chrono> soin theory if i uncompress tar,i get the files?
10:45:05 <Alberth> sure, tar is a very old file format
10:45:39 <Alberth> designed to store directory trees onto a flat file so you can put them on a tape for backup
10:45:51 <Chrono> for example Convoy-11.tar
10:46:18 <Chrono> but original files are *.grf
10:46:53 <Alberth> .tar is just a wrapper format to hold all stuff of Convoy together
10:47:35 <Chrono> yes,so 1.2.3 decompression different from 0.7.5?
10:48:03 <Chrono> i stucked with 0.7.5 port
10:48:18 <Chrono> trying to run online game from him
10:48:45 <Alberth> oh, I see what you're trying to do now
10:49:23 <Alberth> indeed you can unwrap a tar file back to its directory structure, and put that in the directory found by 0.7.5
10:49:54 <Alberth> but in general it will not work for the newer grfs, since they expect a newer openttd version
10:50:21 <Chrono> and version string cannot be changed?
10:50:52 <Alberth> it goes much deeper than just the version string
10:51:38 <Alberth> you can fake the check perhaps, but then it just crashes at some point further down the road, as your version is missing new grf capabilities
10:52:23 <Chrono> last working portable with networking
10:53:40 <Chrono> everything work so fine,but doesnt let me online gameplay ,even if i used latest files from 1.2.3 :(
10:54:25 <Chrono> i do download the patches. but seems they not fine extracted under that version client,so sad
10:55:50 <Chrono> graphicsset = "original_windows"
10:56:21 <Chrono> is possible to manually force use the opengrf?
10:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried putting "opengfx" there?
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10:58:34 <Chrono> sounddriver = "sdl" also gott the latest sdl.dll to run
10:58:36 <abchirk> when I have a Y junction only at one end of transport route, which signals I do use? I tried with path signals but after some seconds I got jam and all stands still
10:59:36 <abchirk> and that the trains only use each railroad for one direction
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11:00:03 <Chrono> failed to select requested graphic set message
11:02:20 <Alberth> abchirk: do you have a picture or a save game?
11:02:57 <abchirk> yeah a save game, should I upload?
11:03:19 <Alberth> that makes discussions a lot easier :)
11:03:30 <Alberth> assuming you play a game that can be loaded in standard openttd
11:03:47 <Chrono> In OpenTTD versions older than OpenTTD 1.2.0 (r23225) you need to replace 'baseset'
11:05:27 <Chrono> i found i need minimally 070 for install opengfx
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11:06:33 <Chrono> In OpenTTD versions older than OpenTTD 1.2.0 (r23225) you need to replace 'baseset'
11:06:59 <Chrono> in the quoted paths by 'data'.
11:07:03 <abchirk> you need to get in as company 2 via ctrl + alt + c then from Kornstadt north to Korbrück Branch
11:07:21 <abchirk> in the depot in Kornstadt north there are waiting trains
11:10:14 <Eddi|zuHause> you have crashed trains?
11:10:32 <abchirk> yeah I let them crash because they wouldn't move anymore
11:10:41 <abchirk> so I pressed ignore signals :)
11:11:20 <abchirk> I watched some in multiplayer games.. they placed every single road track a signal.. but which? And how do I solve this in the uploaded game?
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11:13:52 <Alberth> abchirk: ok, how do I recreate your problem? I don't see any trains there
11:13:55 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: on both tracks the signals face the same way, they should face in opposite ways, to have one track for each direction
11:14:30 <abchirk> Alberth, in Kornstadt North depot there are three trains waiting
11:14:36 <Alberth> click again at the same position
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11:15:02 <LordAro> OTTD doesn't do everything for you ;)
11:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: yes, using the signal tool, click multiple times
11:16:04 <abchirk> so I dont need only two signals on the one way railtrack?
11:16:15 <abchirk> auto generrated map :)
11:16:49 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: you shouldn't put any signals at the two way track, and put signals on the one way tracks in the direction the trains should travel
11:17:24 <Alberth> in particular, at places where waiting trains do not block things you don't want blocked
11:17:41 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: and in kornstadt north you need to turn around the signals pointing towards the depot
11:19:04 <abchirk> ya I read that but I didnt understand it thats why I am here :)
11:19:09 <abchirk> Eddi|zuHause, so only path signals?
11:19:33 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: yes, path signals are the only ones you should need, except for very very special situations
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11:21:16 <Eddi|zuHause> abchirk: and you should reroute your tracks at kornbrück branch, so the AI can place rails there :)
11:29:19 <Chrono> gott opengfx working yay
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11:40:59 <andythenorth> I want some images in first page, but can't figure out what yet
11:46:02 <Alberth> random screenshot of one of our MP games?
11:46:55 <Chrono> version mismatch do not let me
11:47:16 <V453000> andythenorth: nice, very BFU friendly :D
11:47:45 <abchirk> ok seems to work, Alberth and Eddi|zuHause :)
11:49:35 <andythenorth> V453000: BFU is not a compliment :P
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11:50:02 <V453000> its nice and clear what to do though, is nice
11:54:38 <michi_cc> andythenorth: The source repo button links to the zip download as well.
11:55:27 <Chrono> gott the new grf working xD
11:56:01 <Chrono> unpacked tar put to folder
12:11:18 <Chrono> how to do fake version string?
12:11:58 <TWerkhoven> different versions of openttd are inherently incompatible with each other
12:12:08 <TWerkhoven> and cannot join in the same mp game
12:13:27 <Chrono> i running mobile portation of 0.7.5.rc 2
12:13:44 <Chrono> i want play online server
12:13:52 <LordAro> well, you are stuck with single player then
12:13:56 <Chrono> version mismatch do not let me
12:14:00 <LordAro> it is not possible to do that
12:14:15 <LordAro> the version mismatch is there for a reason ;)
12:15:00 <Chrono> dpity,this version is outdated
12:15:20 <LordAro> what device are youon?
12:16:05 <LordAro> you should get a new phone ;P
12:16:37 <Chrono> Android port do not exist too
12:16:56 <LordAro> there's a version on the play store, is there not?
12:17:36 <TWerkhoven> yup, even installed it once
12:17:50 <TWerkhoven> doesnt really work on a screen as small as on wildfire s
12:18:02 <TWerkhoven> not with my big fingers anyway
12:18:04 <Chrono> so no chance to compiled
12:18:46 <Chrono> i think ce not different from desktop alot
12:19:00 <LordAro> unless you can find out what the original porter did, and then update those changes to 1.2.3 (or similar), probably not possible
12:19:12 <TWerkhoven> ce is arm-based, is it not?
12:19:53 <Chrono> sadly crying with outdated version xD
12:20:17 <Chrono> at least not crash on 0.7.5
12:22:29 <TWerkhoven> tbh i cannot imagine a device like that will be able to handle too many vehicles anyway
12:23:52 <TWerkhoven> not bad, whats the actual device?
12:24:31 <LordAro> wait, that has Windoze CE on it?
12:25:05 <TWerkhoven> it can also run android apparantly
12:25:49 <TWerkhoven> you'd have to mess around with it, but it is possible to get android 4.1 to run on it, or cyanogenmod9
12:27:21 <Chrono> pity, winmo version bad, i use still winmo due work atc
12:27:52 <TWerkhoven> it will run openttd 1.2.3 straight from the play store though
12:28:35 <TWerkhoven> not the latest, but there will be servers running it im sure
12:30:34 <Chrono> music work too? under?
12:31:14 <TWerkhoven> not sure myself, never actually played it, just installed it to see if it would run and that was a while back
12:32:02 <TWerkhoven> try it and find out i'd say
12:32:23 <TWerkhoven> either way, its easier than getting it going on ce
12:32:31 <Chrono> this version i use on wm
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12:37:25 <TWerkhoven> seems kinda outdated in itself, last post a year ago
12:38:01 <Chrono> is hard to compile source?
12:38:17 <LordAro> on a computer, not excessively hard
12:38:32 <LordAro> on a computer, for windows mobile, no idea
12:38:57 <TWerkhoven> cant be much worse than replacing the screen on an ipad 2
12:40:15 <TWerkhoven> 2 hours and counting, and almost got the old one removed
12:43:09 <Chrono> <LordAro> i try compile that xD
12:44:51 <Chrono> once i run with current language pack it do not detect
12:45:10 <Chrono> seems different language strings :(
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12:47:10 <LordAro> Chrono: i'm having difficulty understanding you, try full sentences ;)
12:47:12 <Alberth> yep, mixing stuff from different versions is not going to work, it is fundamentally different
12:49:07 <Chrono> just online content *.tar files must be manually unpacked
12:49:27 <Chrono> everything working just server
12:49:59 <Chrono> where can i get binaries of 1.2.3?
12:55:38 * Alberth wonders how Intel binaries are going to be executed at an ARM device
13:03:03 <LordAro> "should" if it does, there's something very wrong with the world of computing :P
13:05:37 <TWerkhoven> chances are similar to running the android version on ce i'd imagine
13:06:04 <TWerkhoven> now, where are those pliers
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13:10:18 <Chrono> i gonna get latest sdl,zlib,pnglib i will see
13:10:55 <Chrono> seems config do let me change string of version
13:11:35 <LordAro> we didn't tell you for a reason
13:12:19 <LordAro> magically changing the version string won't update the rest of the internals ;)
13:13:08 <Chrono> what do i need update xD
13:13:39 <Chrono> version_string = 0.7.2-RC2
13:15:47 <Chrono> i try change to dmusic or win32
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13:24:36 <LordAro> glx: don't ask that, get out while you still can :P
13:26:24 <Chrono> 2048x2048 crash client :(
13:26:43 <glx> so dmusic won't work (I don't think it has directx support)
13:27:00 <glx> 2048x2048 needs a lot of memory
13:28:10 <Chrono> directx driver inside from registry
13:28:39 <Chrono> but not music one i think
13:30:07 <Chrono> so if i point to waw driver from device it should. work?
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13:35:08 <glx> for windows there are only 3 music drivers: win32, dmusic or null
13:36:11 <glx> and openttd drivers are not related to device drivers
13:36:52 <Chrono> windows mobile6.5 port?
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13:37:28 <Chrono> default music set to null :(
13:38:20 <glx> nobody wrote drivers for wince
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13:39:02 <Chrono> in config is SDL used for sound
13:39:40 <glx> yes for sound there is win32, sdl and null
13:40:05 <glx> but there is no sdl driver for music
13:41:21 <Chrono> what in theory i need to run midi music under windows mobile?
13:45:50 <glx> you need to write a driver
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13:53:41 <Chrono> last,so how i get compatible language pack?
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14:34:24 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 18446744073709551616
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14:36:19 <Alberth> that's about 2 times too much :)
14:36:55 <DorpsGek> LordAro: 9223372036854775808
14:39:04 <LordAro> exactly, i'd have thought
14:40:01 <Alberth> int64 runs from -2**63 to +2**63-1 :)
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15:08:39 <frosch123> yay, clean keyboard!
15:27:56 <DorpsGek> LordAro: -2147483648
15:56:10 <LordAro> hehe :) the "... why gcc doesn't support c++ ..." one was quite amusing :)
15:57:05 <frosch123> for some reason only bjarni quotes ever ended up on those sites from this channel
16:01:01 <LordAro> i wonder who submitted them :)
16:13:20 <frosch123> i should not waste time on searching such stuff
16:13:27 <frosch123> better do dinner :p
16:14:08 <V453000> LOL that is awesome :D
16:14:59 *** V453000 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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16:15:20 <LordAro> and if bjarni hadn't done that, DorpsGek would kick me for this message !password :D
16:17:44 <V453000> which means I can type !password at every of my lines until someone kicks me manually ... awesome
16:19:57 <V453000> exactly what I needed
16:23:37 <LordAro> say, Alberth and V453000, would you agree with me that !password, is not a very secure password?
16:24:02 <Alberth> it's much better than "admin" or "secret"!
16:24:29 <V453000> works just fine for us :)
16:25:58 <frosch123> LordAro: it only has lowercase and one special char
16:26:09 <frosch123> but maybe if you add a space in front, it works
16:26:20 <frosch123> though i never tried spaces in passwords
16:26:22 *** V453000 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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16:26:28 <frosch123> i wonder what stuff trims it
16:26:30 <V453000> fuck it ignores the space
16:26:53 *** V453000 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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16:27:38 *** frosch123 was kicked by DorpsGek (Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.)
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16:28:34 <frosch123> i wonder what regex is used :p
16:29:12 <V453000> also, next time I get an idea to add 20 000 lines of code to NUTS, tell me what will it do with compiling time
16:29:20 <LordAro> Alberth: see if it kicks ops :)
16:30:03 <frosch123> afaik that highlights the script author :p
16:30:48 <frosch123> dg complains about not kicking itself
16:31:15 <frosch123> your nick is too hard to type
16:31:27 *** V453000 was kicked by DorpsGek (i need to use c&p)
16:32:40 <Alberth> it should do wildcard expansion if it matches one nick :)
16:33:09 <glx> <frosch123> dg complains about not kicking itself <-- indeed
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16:33:22 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: v* is not in #openttd.
16:33:58 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: V* is not in #openttd.
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16:35:06 <DorpsGek> frosch123: sacro was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 3 hours, 35 minutes, and 21 seconds ago: <Sacro> peter1139: heh, yes
16:35:30 <frosch123> how often do you have to type "@seen sacro" to compensate for all the "@seen bjarni" ?
16:36:24 <DorpsGek> V453000: I have not seen unicorn.
16:36:41 <DorpsGek> frosch123: seen [<channel>] <nick>
16:37:07 <frosch123> anyway, which douche is no going to change his nick? :p
16:39:55 <frosch123> i don't think we get "unicorn" listed under the most common referenced nicks, between "a" and "the"
16:40:01 *** LordAro is now known as unicorn
16:40:07 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!~LordAro@host86-165-42-185.range86-165.btcentralplus.com
16:40:08 *** unicorn was kicked by DorpsGek (frosch123)
16:40:35 <frosch123> can i ban a nickname? instead of a user?
16:40:49 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -b LordAro!~LordAro@host86-165-42-185.range86-165.btcentralplus.com
16:43:16 <V453000> frosch123: not to mention that I got no voice there :D
16:43:46 <V453000> not that I need it by any means, but ... :D
16:44:00 <TWerkhoven> try @ban nick!*@* <thatll work if itll accept a mask as opposed to a nick
16:44:21 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +o frosch123
16:44:28 *** frosch123 sets mode: -b *!~LordAro@host86-165-42-185.range86-165.btcentralplus.com
16:44:38 *** DorpsGek sets mode: -o frosch123
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16:45:34 <LordAro> i guess it's not often you have to unban people :L
16:50:16 <V453000> moral of the story: do not mess with uniporns
16:54:37 <V453000> more like a being-a-bitch-telling-someone-not-to-do-something-and-doing-myself typo
16:54:57 <V453000> DESECRATING name of The animal
16:55:06 <frosch123> ah, did not get that :)
16:55:27 <frosch123> you won't be forgiven now :p
16:58:44 <V453000> (unless by some terrible accident NUTS includes uniporns I guess)
16:58:52 <V453000> which is obviously absolutely unlikely
16:59:28 <frosch123> well, if you start with pigs on christmas trees... where to draw the line?
17:00:35 <V453000> I think I already stated that there is no line :P
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18:32:14 <HellTiger> any non public game suggestions?
18:32:36 <HellTiger> openttd is not that promoted, if you dont know what you search you wouldnt find
18:34:35 <ToBeFree> not sure what you mean/want
18:35:16 <HellTiger> i wana try freeciv next, ToBeFree
18:35:25 <HellTiger> openttd is awsome but i cant play it all day longe :D
18:35:55 <ToBeFree> except Stendhal and SRB2
18:36:15 <HellTiger> oh great. i played crawl. also dwarf fortress
18:36:19 <ToBeFree> Stendhal is Java, SRB2 is open source and there is a linux download, but I suggest downloading the windows installer + WINE
18:36:34 <HellTiger> i am on windows right now
18:39:04 <HellTiger> oh ToBeFree i also played ff.mud.de
18:45:21 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25131 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-31 18:45:13 UTC)
18:45:22 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:23 <DorpsGek> faroese - 73 changes by FastNinja
18:45:24 <DorpsGek> french - 5 changes by glx
18:45:25 <DorpsGek> welsh - 5 changes by kazzie
18:45:50 <ToBeFree> a free-to-play mud, but it isn't open source, right?
18:46:13 <ToBeFree> something I could run on an own server would be great :-/
18:46:17 <HellTiger> hm star control 2 looks interesting
18:46:27 <HellTiger> ah i dont think you can mirror ff.mud.de
18:46:42 <HellTiger> and be master to write quests
18:46:44 <ToBeFree> SC2 is great; if you want a netgame, visit #uqm-arena on Freenode
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18:47:08 <ToBeFree> yes, you already posted that one^^
18:47:33 <HellTiger> yea last was suposed to be telnet sry :D
18:47:39 *** tycoondemon has joined #openttd
18:47:42 <ToBeFree> Is it open source? The only thing I found were telnet instructions, yes^^
18:49:29 <HellTiger> a bit quiet ingame.
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19:44:02 <Wolf01> lol @ freenode, I just read the announcement
20:03:49 <frosch123> what kind of announcement?
20:04:39 <__ln__> some lilo spam with plenty of mirc colors
20:07:38 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25132 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-03-31 20:07:32 UTC)
20:07:39 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5510, FS#5516]: station rebuilding could leave reserved tiles which caused crashes later on
20:08:13 <Wolf01> and a brainfuck riddle
20:12:09 <Zuu> I just uploaded a new release of Beginner Tutorial. Now "only" the trains chapter(s) are missing. :-p
20:12:17 <frosch123> i meant to ask: what's the intention behind publishes/unpublished story book changes
20:13:14 <Zuu> frosch123: The intention is to enforce that old pages don't rewrite themself.
20:13:37 <Zuu> So that a user can go back to an old page and read it as it was before.
20:13:53 <frosch123> hmm, so you do not want any dynamic content on the pages
20:14:26 <Zuu> I think the goal elements should indicate if the goal is completed or not.
20:14:29 <frosch123> or would that then be goal references?
20:15:05 <Zuu> Some content will be slightly dynamic. Eg. a {TOWN} will update if the town is renamed.
20:16:23 <Zuu> It is though a question if this is the right way to go. But yes, the reason why you cannot modify published pages is to make old pages sort of static.
20:17:28 <Zuu> Another reason is that if pages are made available before they are fully populated it could look funny on the screen. But that is a minor problem as a good GS would not call ShowPage until it have fully populated a page.
20:18:03 <Zuu> If a user is able to click Next before the page if fully populated, then the GS should pre-cache the content before starting creating the page.
20:19:01 <Zuu> s/if fully populated/is fully populated/
20:21:10 <frosch123> i mainly wondered about adding additonal goals to a page
20:21:31 <frosch123> i think it might be necessary to allow adding items to a page
20:22:12 <frosch123> not sure whether making the pages static is necessary
20:22:20 <frosch123> you could just blame that on the script :)
20:22:34 <frosch123> should be easier than adding weird work-arounds
20:22:43 <frosch123> like deleting and recreating pages
20:26:30 <Zuu> I know that some GS author was hoping to use the story book as a place to dump long texts and reference it from their goals. It is not the usage I mainly had in mind. One non-intended usage that probably will happen is that one of the CityBuilder scripts add one page for each captured town and display stats there which they cannot fit into the town window.
20:27:38 <Zuu> If you can update the text of page elements and also append more content, such an usage will be easier.
20:28:17 <frosch123> i think appending items is quite needed
20:28:38 <frosch123> in a "usual story" you do not necessarily see all goals from the beginning
20:28:47 <frosch123> but discover some of them along the path
20:29:14 <Zuu> In that case, I would create a new page when you discover a new goal.
20:29:21 <frosch123> though to make gui really awesome we would need some more text formatting :p like crossing text when it becomes invalid
20:29:39 <frosch123> a whole new page for a single line of text?
20:30:39 <Zuu> I though you would like to provide some body text that describes the newly found town with rich oil wells.
20:31:12 <Zuu> If you add a new page, you get a date stamped page :-)
20:32:29 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25133 /branches/1.3 (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-31 20:32:21 UTC)
20:32:30 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
20:32:31 <DorpsGek> - Fix: Station rebuilding could leave reserved tiles which caused crashes later on [FS#5510, FS#5516] (r25132)
20:32:32 <DorpsGek> - Fix: When the count for a scrollbar was 0, the inter distance was subtracted too much causing a scrollbar with a negative size (r25123)
20:33:17 <Zuu> I plan to ask in the Graphics forum for three new sprites: 1) Location, 2) Goal (not completed) 3) Goal (completed). With that we can show a different sprite when a goal is completed in the Story book (given that my patch that add a completed boolean property to goals is included)
20:38:27 <frosch123> hmm, though maybe a window title-icon would be of quite different size, than an icon at a paragraph
20:39:06 <Zuu> It may help to use an eye symbol on both, but it will need different sized sprites.
20:40:28 <frosch123> or some kind of arrow
20:41:00 <Eddi|zuHause> why? shouldn't the window title be the same height as a normal text? or am i imagining different things than you are?
20:44:15 <Zuu> Hmm, the sprite for centering the view on a vehicle could possible be re-used.
20:45:14 <Zuu> Before, I used a toolbar sprite, which is slightly larger. Most important is probably to use the same size of the sprite for goals and location page element as it may otherwise look strange.
20:46:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: ok, then i was imagining something different, more like within flowing text you have "blah dubidu [location] town whatever", to indicate you can click there to go to the referenced location
20:50:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25134 /branches/1.3 (6 files in 4 dirs) (2013-03-31 20:50:46 UTC)
20:50:53 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: some documentation
20:51:19 <Zuu> I've put click-on-text on hold in favor for this method which requires less work.
20:51:55 <frosch123> and might even be nicer :)
20:52:24 <Zuu> and easier to discover for users
20:55:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25135 /tags/1.3.0 (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-03-31 20:55:13 UTC)
20:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> is it me or is it getting earlier each time?
20:57:49 <V453000> <- im waiting for british midnight
20:58:04 <Rubidium> it's far into fools day in Australia
21:01:58 <LordAro> i'd forgottenit was that time of year :L
21:02:11 <LordAro> congrats to all, etc :)
21:02:35 <Zuu> frosch123: Do you think InsertPage and InsertPageElement should be provided?
21:03:23 <Zuu> Or is it enough to allow updating old pages, but not encourage inserting pages into the past history?
21:03:46 <frosch123> i have no usecase for inserting whole pages
21:04:44 <Rubidium> blathijs, heffer: new release, tarballs expected to be finished in slightly less than 1 hour
21:05:44 <Zuu> Hmm, should the date displayed at the top of a page update when you update the page? It may be confusing as the update of a town name will be reflected when {TOWN} is used, but that doesn't technically update the page. So only changes that happen due to calling UpdatePageElement(..) would then cause the date to update.
21:06:16 <Rubidium> Ammler: I guess that release stuff applies to you as well ;)
21:06:49 <Zuu> Or we could provide an API for scripts to update the date and leave it up to them to (miss)use it.
21:08:12 <frosch123> Zuu: weren't you using the date for sorting the pages?
21:08:49 <frosch123> anyway, creation date is good enough, i think :)
21:09:14 <Zuu> Nope, a uint16 sort value is used for that. It is increased by each created page.
21:09:25 <Zuu> Otherwise you wouldn't be able to create two pages on the same day.
21:09:48 <Zuu> (and be sure they appear in the correct order)
21:14:45 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25136 /trunk (9 files in 6 dirs) (2013-03-31 21:14:39 UTC)
21:14:46 <DorpsGek> -Merge: 1.3 release (documentation) updates
21:18:21 <Ammler> yeah, I will do the packaging tomorrow to get a better date on it :-)
21:19:11 <Ammler> there won't be anyone for the review anyway
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21:48:43 <alandarev> can I disable funding city buildings?
21:50:16 <frosch123> check adv. settings
21:50:24 <frosch123> you can disable a lot of town actions
21:50:27 <frosch123> not sure about funding
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22:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> OSX users have serious personality disorders :)
22:15:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's like deeply religious people not seeing any problems in the "theory of creationism"
22:18:54 <blathijs> Rubidium: Thanks for the heads up, I'll try to package things tomorrow
22:22:12 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.3.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
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