IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-29
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01:05:40 <Bonez305> where is the setting for mapsize on the config?
01:09:43 <Bonez305> Found it map_x map_y :D
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02:18:52 <Bonez305> What year do transport vehicles start pumping out?
02:19:04 <Bonez305> I started a server at 1800 and there was nothing. Lol
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05:07:15 <GauHelldragon> hi i have a question about the train list interface
05:07:27 <GauHelldragon> what does it mean if a train has a small yellow circle with a green plus sign next to it
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07:38:46 <Eddi|zuHause> GauHelldragon: it's a yellow coin, and it means the train made profit in the last 2 years
07:51:15 <V453000> isnt it last 1 year? :d
07:51:56 <V453000> I thought it is one of the company performance things, train made + profit last year
07:52:31 <V453000> yellow is 0 - 10000 red is negative, green is 10000+ I think
07:52:52 <V453000> 10 000 being the amount set by the performance profit, scale with currency :)
07:56:53 <Eddi|zuHause> well, technically it is "the previous year"
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07:57:22 <Eddi|zuHause> which may be almost a year ago if you are towards the end of the year, so 2 years in total
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08:23:30 <V453000> well yeah but only the previous year counts
08:23:41 <V453000> for the icon indication
08:23:52 <V453000> not the currently running year
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10:41:38 <alandarev> anyone experienced with CityBuilder GS?
10:46:41 <Alberth> I am not, but in general, it's more effective to ask your real question instead of meta questions
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10:47:50 <alandarev> Alberth: yes, but considering the amount of questions I have and their specification regardless configuration of that exact script I would rather bother someone who knows the script I am talking about ;-)
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10:52:22 <DorpsGek> frosch123: I have not seen eddi.
10:52:25 <DorpsGek> frosch123: eddi* could be Eddi|zuHause (2 hours, 55 minutes, and 3 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause2 (7 weeks, 4 days, 13 hours, 53 minutes, and 18 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause4 (50 weeks, 2 days, 23 hours, 8 minutes, and 41 seconds ago), Eddi|nichZuHause (1 year, 4 weeks, 1 day, 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 21 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause3 (1 year, 50 weeks, 6 days, 0 hours, 28 minutes, and 2 seconds ago), or (1 more message)
10:57:13 <frosch123> as long as they are not replicating exponentially, it should be fine :)
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11:07:54 <alandarev> In setting Game SCript parameters I need to set: Cargo ID Representing Food/Water/Passangers/Mail where can I find that? :)
11:09:06 <NGC3982> I have not played in weeks.
11:09:44 <alandarev> frosch123: I am in settings window, but I don't know what ID cargo food has
11:10:16 <frosch123> what silly script asks for a cargo id in the gui? :o
11:10:29 <frosch123> well, look at the industry set you are using then
11:10:38 <frosch123> if you are lucky it tells in its documentation
11:10:51 <alandarev> frosch123: default... It is CityBuilder GameScript
11:12:03 <alandarev> frosch123: thank you
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11:13:38 <frosch123> anyway, tell the author to use cargo labels to identify cargos
11:15:34 <alandarev> frosch123: I think that is made for compatibility with custom industry sets. so I can set "Town should require cargo ID 26 100 per 1000 pop" where 26 will bei mplemented by custom industry vector
11:15:46 <alandarev> frosch123: that is great, and he gave a warning in readme that configuration is complex :D
11:16:33 <frosch123> well, once we implement dynamic cargos, it will break :p
11:17:00 <alandarev> dynamic cargos? sounds interesting but no idea what stands behind it
11:18:20 <frosch123> currently you can only use a single industry set
11:18:30 <frosch123> multiple sets will conflict because they use the same fixed cargo ids
11:18:42 <frosch123> to make multiple industry sets work, you have to remove the "fixedness"
11:19:04 <alandarev> sounds like a right direction :) But indeed will make a life for the script owner harder...
11:19:42 <alandarev> I'll copy last 6 messages to the script topic, ok?
11:19:56 <Alberth> no, it's easier, you get nice labels to identify a cargo instead of a magic number
11:20:18 <Alberth> alandarev: alternatively link to a log
11:21:44 <alandarev> "need to be approved by a moderator" mean people :(
11:21:51 <alandarev> where is freedom of speech! :D
11:25:37 <frosch123> hmm, watching people play ottd without hotkeys is annoying
11:26:49 <frosch123> you do not see every click
11:30:17 <alandarev> does OpenGFX+ Industries introduce any new industry or is just improving existing ones?
11:31:01 <frosch123> it allows you to add industries from other climates
11:31:19 <frosch123> you can pick different chains from different climates, and recompose them
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11:32:17 <alandarev> frosch123: and obvious question, what will happen if their ID's collide?
11:35:24 <frosch123> and you end up with steel mills producing pigs
11:39:32 <LordAro> what was that bug, that was fixed a while ago, that could make planes look like houses?
11:39:44 <LordAro> i always thought that would be fun to play with :)
11:39:54 <frosch123> i do not remember such bug
11:40:29 <LordAro> i'll see if i can find it
11:40:50 <LordAro> iirc, the bug was fixed before anyone knew about it, but still :)
11:48:16 <alandarev> I can no longer find difficulty settings in 1.3 :(
11:48:56 <frosch123> the difficulty profiles were removed
11:49:04 <frosch123> the settings are in the normal adv. settings dialog now
11:50:23 <andythenorth> "we should choose not pointy them these buses"
11:50:36 <andythenorth> Foster MKII bus is too slopey :P
12:01:32 <alandarev> can I see cargo ID of a cargo in-game using some console commands?
12:04:43 <Alberth> maybe with the newgrf debugging gui, but no idea
12:04:47 <frosch123> you could write a gamescript to print it :p
12:05:15 <Alberth> or patch the script to use labels :)
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13:45:59 <alandarev> Disasters? Cn anyone explain me what Disasters in OpenTTD are like :)
13:46:18 <LordAro> virtually non-existant :)
13:46:58 <HellTiger> maybe a plane crash?
13:47:12 <alandarev> HellTiger: it's a sepparate setting
13:47:48 <Alberth> it's all at the wiki, except perhaps not entirely up-to-date :)
13:47:48 <alandarev> Alberth: ah that looks funny :D Maybe I should enable
13:48:10 <Alberth> most are nice, big ufo is a PITA
13:49:08 * LordAro has never seen the submarine or the small ufo
13:49:42 <Alberth> you didn't play enough with disasters enabled :p
13:50:31 <LordAro> i don't think i was aware you could turn them off, most of the time i played
13:51:27 <NGC3982> Excuse me, a submarine in OpenTTD?
13:51:47 <alandarev> It is disabled by default
13:53:05 <LordAro> alandarev: i have been playing (O)TTD(P) since 1999, and they weren't off by default back then ;)
13:53:45 <Alberth> yeah, it's enabled by default
13:54:05 <Alberth> NGC3982: you should also play more openttd :p
13:54:13 <alandarev> LordAro: but but.. I just installed OpenTTD and the disaster is disabled
13:54:15 <NGC3982> You guys never seem to suprise me.
13:54:43 <Alberth> it's inherited from the original
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15:00:16 <HellTiger> hm my first electric train has disapeared
15:00:24 <HellTiger> i have to fall back to steam diesel engines
15:09:49 <LordAro> bad nick autocompletion, you've woken the lobster now :P
15:10:12 <LordAro> HellTiger: you should have electric engines by that date
15:12:40 <HellTiger> default install lobster
15:12:48 <HellTiger> LordAro: i mean, sorry.
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15:13:01 <HellTiger> its also a default settings game
15:15:29 <LordAro> keep playing, there might just be a 'gap' in availability
15:15:36 <LordAro> ask on the forums also
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15:45:57 <HellTiger> lol i even cant build electric railways any more :D
15:47:51 <HellTiger> LordAro: do you think i should look for a bug?
15:48:05 <HellTiger> or just wait for reapiring of electric things
15:50:05 <DorpsGek> NGC3982: eddi* could be Eddi|zuHause (7 hours, 52 minutes, and 43 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause2 (7 weeks, 4 days, 18 hours, 50 minutes, and 58 seconds ago), Eddi|zuHause4 (50 weeks, 3 days, 4 hours, 6 minutes, and 21 seconds ago), Eddi|nichZuHause (1 year, 4 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 14 minutes, and 1 second ago), Eddi|zuHause3 (1 year, 50 weeks, 6 days, 5 hours, 25 minutes, and 42 seconds ago), or (1 more message)
15:50:56 <Alberth> infra structure building is by default connected to presence of vehicles that use that type of infra structure
15:51:57 <Alberth> you can switch that connection off, but there is not much point in doing that, imho
15:52:10 <NGC3982> Sim City 3000 is unplayable
15:52:33 <NGC3982> Sim City 4 is fine, i completed >profit at first try. I have yet to run a Sim City 3000 game without bancrupcy.
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15:56:41 <LordAro> HellTiger: make a post on the forus with your savegame, see if people can help you there
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16:41:14 <Bonez305> I have a server set up for 512x512 map, would it go over 1gb of RAM?
16:42:34 <LordAro> depends on how many vehicles there are
16:42:55 <Bonez305> How could one calculate RAM usage?
16:43:06 <Bonez305> As far as vehicles are concerned.
16:45:19 <LordAro> i'm no expert, but i suspect you can't, easily
16:45:55 <NGC3982> If i remember correctly, installing OpenTTD from the aptitude repositories is not recommended?
16:46:00 <LordAro> you could of course set up a test map for yourself, cheat yourself some money, and set up as many vehicles as you can
16:46:07 <NGC3982> (As far as dedicated server goes)
16:46:29 <LordAro> NGC3982: i wouldn't say not recommended, but it is liable to be out of date
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16:46:31 <Bonez305> NGC3982: well I installed from the actual deb file.
16:46:51 <LordAro> yes, you can get a .deb from openttd.org
16:46:51 <Bonez305> Bonez305: the apt rep. gave me a 1.0.4 install i believe
16:47:01 <NGC3982> Last time i tried it out, i made a complete mess of it ;).
16:47:08 <NGC3982> LordAro: I see. Thanks.
16:48:00 <Bonez305> I'm running 100mb of Ram without anything on the map right now
16:48:36 <NGC3982> Afaik, you can mave many - many vehicles before RAM becomes an issue.
16:48:53 <V453000> there should be a warning when generating more than 1000x1000 map
16:49:01 <V453000> like "be very surprised when your pc suffers"
16:49:28 <NGC3982> >1000^2 gives my computer a stroke.
16:52:47 <Alberth> it's too big to be useful any way
16:54:39 <NGC3982> In the Linux version of OpenTTD, where can i find the readme?
16:55:18 <NGC3982> Never mind, found it on the wiki.
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16:59:08 <Bonez305> crap, so no trains till 1930?
17:00:40 <LordAro> (don't blame the devs, blame mr sawyer) :P
17:01:21 <NGC3982> Hm, this did not work as planned. I downloaded v1.2.3 from the site (for Ubuntu 12.04) and also installed liblzo2-2. i followed the instructions in the readme telling me to put OpenGFX-0.4.6.tar.gz in ~/.openttd/baseset.
17:01:41 <NGC3982> Running a dedicated server still gives me the "You don't have the graphics baseset" error message.
17:01:59 <Alberth> .gz files are not readable by openttd
17:02:08 <NGC3982> "There's no need to unpack the tar, so just leave it as it is."
17:02:16 <NGC3982> That explains it, i did not recognice the .gz.
17:02:24 <Alberth> ie gzip -d OpenGFX-0.4.6.tar.gz
17:03:53 <NGC3982> Last (and my first) time i tried installing OpenTTD on a Linux system, i was this close *showing* to have peter1139 travel to Sweden, just to strangle me to death.
17:10:46 <LordAro> i still don't understand why a dedicated server requires a graphics baseset
17:11:33 <Alberth> for all vehicle properties other than pretty pictures
17:12:03 <Alberth> iirc there is also a version where all images have size (0,0)
17:13:01 <LordAro> surely those sort of properties shouldn't be included with the baseset?
17:13:13 <LordAro> or is it just legacy support?
17:21:59 <Alberth> hmm, I am not even sure there are properties in the base set
17:23:11 <Anpan> I have a small problem and I just can't find the solution in the wiki. I have a station with two coal mines in it's reach and at any given time there's a train loading in the station. However, it appears I cannot get the coal mines over ~72% transported
17:23:35 <Anpan> And I have no clue how to fix this
17:27:40 <Anpan> There isn't any cargo getting lost in the station (since a train always immediately picks it up). This is why I am so confused as to where the missing 30% of the coal mines go
17:28:20 <NGC3982> Hey, how is CityVille 2 for a game?
17:28:30 <Alberth> the coal mine arranged other forms of transport for the other 30%
17:28:50 <NGC3982> LordAro: I guess there are reasons for it, but i really don't understand why the Linux version comes without the OpenGFX/MSX/SFX files.
17:29:18 <Anpan> Alberth: But there aren't any other forms of transport near the coal mine. No streets, ships or planes nearby
17:29:53 <LordAro> NGC3982: iirc, there have been many discussions about that :) i think the conclusion that was reached was that not everyone wanted them, so they weren't 'enforced'
17:30:08 <LordAro> i believe those packages are 'recommended' though
17:30:24 <LordAro> but i think package managers generally hide those packages though
17:30:40 <NGC3982> I guess it goes beyond my Unix knowledge.
17:31:28 <Alberth> NGC3982: the graphics are HUGE compared to the openttd binaries, so it would eat a lot of bandwidth
17:31:49 <Alberth> also the graphics are not updated that often, so you don't need a new version with every new Openttd
17:32:14 <Alberth> so to keep our server costs down, they are not included.
17:32:20 <NGC3982> That sounds very logical
17:32:41 <NGC3982> And i didn't really think about the fact that one would want to update every now and then.
17:32:55 <Alberth> ie openttd 5MB versus 230MB for zbase
17:33:25 <Alberth> ie for MP you usually need the latest stable, so 4-5 times a year easily
17:33:49 <NGC3982> That builds up to a fair lot of data.
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17:36:36 <Anpan> So.. no one knows why my coal mines don't go over 70% transported, even though there is always a train in the station loading up any cargo the station gets?
17:37:13 <NGC3982> Loading up != Moving coal from the industry.
17:37:18 <Anpan> or is the station rating somehow the upper limit for the "transported" value of industry
17:37:21 <Alberth> Anpan: because your rating is 70%
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17:37:39 <Alberth> improve it by doing what the program cares about
17:37:51 <Superuser> guys, some really bad strings in OTTD trunk
17:37:57 <Superuser> horrible grammatical and spelling errors
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17:38:02 <Superuser> for the english version
17:38:35 <Superuser> I can make a patch file if you want and an issue, but something tells me it will lie around for weeks like the other one
17:40:31 <Alberth> add it to the other one :)
17:41:59 <Alberth> spelling errors should be quite trivial
17:42:27 <Superuser> yeah, I've moaned about it again and again and it still hasn't been accepted :(
17:42:35 <Superuser> heck I even made a patch file as someone requested but nothing :/
17:42:48 <Superuser> I just hope this will get in on time for 1.3
17:42:49 <__ln__> Superuser: has it been 4 months yet?
17:42:50 <Alberth> but the other ones are more difficult. Given that we believed the original strings were good, you claim yours are better, but how do we verify that?
17:42:52 <Anpan> hmm it appears that the station rating really does limit the amount of cargo transported away from the mines. That doesn't make any sense to me, since cargo doesn't fall out of the train because of that but I guess I can't do anything about that
17:43:09 <Superuser> I ran them through with #openttd first
17:43:16 <Superuser> discussed them meticulously
17:43:21 <Alberth> Anpan: you don't get everything that the mine produces
17:43:30 <Superuser> and secondly, I know I am right because I am always righty
17:43:54 <Anpan> Alberth: but they don't have any other means of transportation. Do they just flush it down the toilet? *confused*
17:44:10 <Alberth> Anpan: yes, whatever you want to believe, they do
17:45:10 <Alberth> Anpan: the program just shows your view on the world, rather than the complete view with vehicles you don't care about
17:45:23 <Alberth> if that makes you more convinced :)
17:45:58 <Anpan> Alberth: hmm. Well, I guess I finally see a point in building statues, then xD
17:46:34 <Alberth> Anpan: or be happy with 70%, and spend your time and money on another mine :)
17:48:19 <Anpan> Alberth: I just want over 80% to get fastest possible growth :) Which I now achieved looking at how ratings are calculated. I like to pay attention to one or two stations first, get it running smoothly and then expand into other areas
17:48:38 <Superuser> aww shit Alberth, can you commit the other one first? I lost the files as it seems
17:48:51 <Superuser> and cba redownloading
17:48:59 <Superuser> and learning how to use diff again
17:53:52 <NGC3982> Can loans be disabled by config?
17:56:36 <Superuser> I will love if you do this
17:58:17 <Bonez305> from the box how can i change the password to a company?
17:58:34 <Bonez305> bastard stole my company while i was AFK lol
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18:45:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25127 /trunk/src/lang (3 files) (2013-03-29 18:45:19 UTC)
18:45:28 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <DorpsGek> galician - 294 changes by Michi
18:45:30 <DorpsGek> greek - 8 changes by Evropi
18:45:31 <DorpsGek> welsh - 65 changes by kazzie
18:58:47 <HellTiger> hm after there is no money problem
18:58:52 <HellTiger> will you come into any trouble?
18:58:59 <HellTiger> i am still not familar with the open end feeling
18:59:10 <Superuser> industries might shut down
18:59:14 <HellTiger> ist just to connect all industry for e
18:59:14 <Superuser> if you don't fulfill supply chain
18:59:43 <Superuser> anyway if you're spinning millions of dollars anually, you won't have a problem
18:59:52 <Superuser> you will win, don't you worry :)
18:59:56 <HellTiger> so when you drop a map then
19:00:02 <Superuser> most people in multiplayers games are noobs anyway
19:00:05 <HellTiger> there was a winning condition
19:00:13 <HellTiger> what is default unchanged thing?
19:00:25 <Superuser> see the league table
19:00:30 <Superuser> scores change throughout the game
19:00:39 <Superuser> it's worth looking at the detailed breakdown too
19:00:44 <Superuser> to see what actually makes people win
19:00:53 <Superuser> money is less relevant than you might tihnk
19:01:59 <HellTiger> Superuser: do you know how long a unpaused game will take time?
19:03:40 <HellTiger> and why should i increase map size
19:07:19 <Bonez305> from 1950 to 2050 i believe its 22.5 hours
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19:14:41 <Superuser> I dunno but I usually start at 1960
19:14:46 <Superuser> cos 1950s are boring
19:14:56 <Superuser> 1970 is a bit unfair though as planes are allowed
19:15:08 <Superuser> and as soon as one player gets planes the game is effectively decided in their favour
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19:38:17 <Alberth> set max number of planes to 0 :)
19:39:09 <Alberth> I can see the use for uppercase 's' with the ships, have some trouble with the 'effect' removal, and a whole lot of trouble with 'schedule'
19:39:27 <frosch123> someone read an interlaced image with libpng before? :)
19:40:56 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: is printing "processing of interlaced png images not supporting" and aborting encoding an acceptable fix for 5276?
19:41:47 <Alberth> and the difference of n versus N also does not strike me as a good change, even if it may be correct
20:04:11 <frosch123> but i guess i have to do trial-and-error whether i have to call readrows for 8 rows even if the file has only 4 rows
20:04:41 <HellTiger> so anyone plays also simutrans beside?
20:06:17 <michi_cc> I understood that part that png_set_interlace_handling() tells you the number of passes.
20:06:34 <frosch123> yeah, but is passes = number of rows? :)
20:06:59 <frosch123> if i read a image not as a whole, can i only read multiples of passes rows?
20:07:54 <michi_cc> Isn't the row number just the image height?
20:08:21 <frosch123> i do not want to read all lines at once
20:09:06 <michi_cc> So the code is currently calling png_read_row(), right?
20:09:17 <frosch123> yes, which does not work for interlaced images
20:09:28 <frosch123> i have to use png_read_rows
20:09:48 <frosch123> currently i am going to try to read num_passes rows at once
20:10:12 <Superuser> anyone know how to batch resize images with imagemagic? Want to maintain ratio and shit though
20:10:26 <Superuser> like is it possible to put them in a folder and let it do its magic
20:11:33 <Superuser> Yes, heil grammatik indeed
20:11:48 <Superuser> any answers beyond just OCD about the question?
20:14:27 <__ln__> you can simply use a bash one-liner to make imagemagick to do whatever you want to all files. aspect ratio is maintained automatically.
20:21:42 <frosch123> michi_cc: that still does not tell me how to only read some rows
20:22:01 <frosch123> i suspect i can only read multiple of 8 rows at a time, by calling read_rows 7 times
20:22:14 <frosch123> i get the number 7 from png_set_interlace_handling
20:22:18 <frosch123> but where do i get the 8 from? :p
20:28:49 <michi_cc> Looking at the file format itself I think it is impossible to just read some rows from an interlaced png image. The 8 sub-images seem to be stored sequentially in the png file, starting with the smallest, and libpng (and probably the png format itself) only allow you to do sequential reading.
20:29:45 <frosch123> yeah, it only makes sense that way :s
20:30:40 <michi_cc> So no way to just jump to a row in each sub-image. The only thing you could do is using png_read_row combined with the described manual de-interlacing, which avoids having to allocate memory for the whole image (but you still need to process it).
20:31:08 <frosch123> well, then i have to scan the whole file for every row :p
20:31:28 <frosch123> so, yeah, for interlaced images you can only read the whole image at once
20:36:01 <Superuser> I just did them all manualle __ln__, but thatnks anyway
20:36:25 <Superuser> the up arrow is my hero
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22:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> thanks, frosch123, now at least i know what the difference between the images is :)
22:40:12 <Eddi|zuHause> a bugfix release would be useful now, to have it eventually ripple down to places where it's used
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continue to next day ⏵
