IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-27
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08:09:54 <V453000> where the hell is andy :D
08:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> where in the world is andy sandiego?
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08:26:52 <V453000> hm, does anyone has an idea what does AORE in ECS stand for?
08:27:00 <V453000> there is no bauxite/aluminium ore, right?
08:29:54 <V453000> strange, loading machinery vector does not enable it apparently
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08:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> ECS vectors is weird somewhat, the vectors have to be loaded in the right order
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09:00:35 <V453000> I guess, it is kind of written there but I cba to load 321413 newGRFs tbh
09:05:47 <V453000> why I am solving all this is because I never imagined bauxite as rather light pink, which andy currently added to CHIPS :D as FIRS uses the original copper ore mine and ECS uses some other colour bauxite thing, I am not sure what to think of that
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09:08:22 <V453000> andythenorth: what colour is bauxite meant to be? :d pink?
09:09:54 <V453000> that be orange/red not pink
09:10:30 <andythenorth> funny colour bauxite
09:11:35 <V453000> if you are sure on that I will just adapt NUTS to it
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09:14:35 <andythenorth> I made that quite ugly :o
09:15:21 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> ho ho <-- yes, it looks very christmas-y outside :p
09:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> we had easter-weather on christmas, so it's only fair to have christmas-weather on easter :p
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09:16:35 <V453000> should be more red I assume
09:17:19 <andythenorth> I guess it should be more red
09:17:29 <andythenorth> but then it might conflict with iron ore and copper :P
09:17:36 <andythenorth> and I think I used the pink in HEQS :P
09:17:59 <Eddi|zuHause> metals are just all the same, lets unify them... 10CC-style :p
09:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> just have "passengers", "mail", "raw materials" and "goods" as cargo :p
09:19:18 <V453000> What I have to say is, the pink certainly does not conflict with anything :D
09:19:21 <Eddi|zuHause> and possibly some food-ish stuff to make town growth happy
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09:19:29 <V453000> so I am not Entirely against pink but it looked wtf on the first sight
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09:20:34 <andythenorth> come back eddi :P
09:21:50 <alandarev> is there any solid pack with 32bit graphics?
09:22:54 <V453000> if solid word is important, no
09:23:09 <V453000> pixel art rules the world today
09:23:31 <V453000> 3rd expansion to starcraft will be in pixel art too
09:27:52 <V453000> andythenorth: I will try to think about something
09:29:19 <V453000> option A: candyfloss pink, theme: when WTF, then properly WTF
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09:37:52 <V453000> andythenorth: the heaps in CHIPS need more shades :P 4 aint enough ... I might give it a try to enhance them sometime soon if you like
09:38:45 <andythenorth> 4 is ttd style :P
09:39:17 <andythenorth> V453000: also would you ever use anything like this when working on your grfs?
09:39:30 <andythenorth> trying to figure out if it's useful
09:40:01 <V453000> you mean the page itself?
09:40:29 <V453000> I think pages like this are massively useful because cargoes are major mess, but I think unified in the tt-wiki in cargo labels is the best spot in the end
09:40:55 <V453000> 4 is borked, ttd style regardless :P
09:41:11 <V453000> OR needs to have 4 with larger brightness range for moar contrast
09:41:55 <andythenorth> V453000: which info is useful in the page?
09:42:13 * andythenorth needs a user to think about when designing it
09:43:23 <V453000> well of course mainly which cargo goes to which label
09:43:45 <V453000> I still think the most important information is which All cargoes do go under that label which is best on unified page at tt-wiki
09:43:58 <V453000> But, info like ID and multiplier is sure good to know
09:44:05 <V453000> or, can be I guess :)
09:44:21 <andythenorth> I could print out loads of info-porn, just not sure if anyone cares :P
09:44:35 <V453000> anyway, the thing I posted is my attempt at bauxite colour
09:44:49 <V453000> uses a bit of pink plus the darker pink and pinkbrown
09:45:04 <V453000> didnt try to "enhance"tm the heap of shit yet
09:45:18 <andythenorth> V453000: looks better I think
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10:17:50 <alandarev> are bots supported in multiplayer? (I know there isn't much sense in having bots in MP but still)
10:28:11 <V453000> well AI in single player indeed is pointless, but in multiplayer it is seriously wtf :D
10:28:23 <V453000> reducing your cpu cause yeah
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10:38:33 <V453000> I want to have as short work shifts as you andy
10:39:52 <V453000> do you actually teach some bastards? :D
11:19:49 <V453000> OMG all ships drawn :D
11:20:09 <andythenorth> V453000: irc at work innit
11:20:12 <V453000> well it is one ship right now, but all wagons
11:22:45 <V453000> anyway, looking at your heap naow
11:23:13 <andythenorth> V453000: I don't like those heaps
11:23:18 <andythenorth> you have to redraw them all
11:23:26 <andythenorth> they're too high
11:24:14 <V453000> high is nice But they need more contrast and shit so that that they would look less flat
11:24:46 <V453000> I will try some enhancing when keeping the same shape for now
11:24:48 <andythenorth> I even look like that
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11:40:20 <alandarev> do I put grf files into My documents/OpentTD/newgrf?
11:55:39 <V453000> he doesnt have backlog does he
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12:23:57 <alandarev> can I increase UI scale, as high resolution small monitor is a pain in the ass how UI becomes uber-small
12:28:06 <Pinkbeast> Increasing the font size will help a bit...
12:34:00 <alandarev> why I can't find zBase in-game Check Online Content feature?
12:34:20 <alandarev> nevermind :( found it after opened same thing from main menu
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12:48:43 <alandarev> ah sweet, zBase is exactly what I needed :)
13:06:04 <alandarev> how do I add that difficult town growth requirements to my game (offline) the ones I saw on town-challenge servers?
13:07:06 <HellTiger> how much money i should have to start building tracks complete around a 256*256 island?
13:11:50 <alandarev> where can i find server scripts?
13:12:42 <alandarev> thanks, now i can find :)
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13:36:05 <alandarev> can I have several game scripts?
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13:55:18 <alandarev> I am having problems trying to download Balanced City Growth game script. through manager, it downloads I click OK, and then it just dissapears, if I go to manager again - it offers to download again (no green circle)
13:55:36 <alandarev> I tried manually, I have put the tar.gz file into newgfx folder but game does not detect it
13:57:38 <alandarev> I can see the file in Openttd/content_download/game/balanced_city_growth-3.tar but in GS selection it is not there
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14:54:04 <Bonez305> what setting in cfg would I change to make the game finish at a certain amount of money and restart?
14:57:30 <Belugas> as far as i remember, nowhere. You would need a goal script or somethng like that
14:58:11 <Belugas> in other words, vanilla ottd does not have taht feature
14:58:26 <Belugas> unless things have changed drastically since last time i checked ;)
14:59:48 <Bonez305> Belugas: Ah, more stuff to give me a headache :D. I can barely start a server properly haha
15:01:08 <Belugas> continuous learning... happens even at game level ;)
15:01:50 <Bonez305> I've been helped twice to setup a server on my linux box, but everytime I attempted it myself and can't seem to get it.
15:02:02 <ToBeFree> Bonez305: you again :D
15:02:08 <ToBeFree> tell me if you need something^^
15:02:35 <ToBeFree> I mean, the basic procedure is simple or at least it sounds simple:
15:02:37 <Bonez305> Well, I reinstalled everything on the VPS to get a clean start and failed at installing openttd lol
15:02:45 <ToBeFree> 1. start the fresh Ubuntu/Debian server,
15:02:56 <Bonez305> well I installed it, just don't remember how to get it to start
15:02:59 <ToBeFree> 2. make it secure (disable root logins, move the port whatever), and
15:03:11 <ToBeFree> that's the third step after you installed openttd:
15:03:44 <ToBeFree> yes, but you probably want to modify ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
15:03:51 <ToBeFree> or replace it by one you created on your home PC
15:04:00 <ToBeFree> and don't run that command as root please^^
15:04:03 <Bonez305> well I won't have ./openttd/ until i start it once
15:04:37 <ToBeFree> okay, start it as any user first, then shut it down with a SIGTERM (use htop if you like), and modify/replace it^^
15:04:52 <Bonez305> I don't think i have htop :/
15:05:03 <ToBeFree> sudo apt-get install htop
15:05:37 <ToBeFree> I recommend writing it down, but *not* copying it into the command line
15:05:55 <ToBeFree> every time you have to enter it yourself, you learn it, I'd say :-)
15:06:39 <ToBeFree> if you want to send a SIGTERM using another user than the one you used to start openttd, you have to use root/sudo
15:07:12 <ToBeFree> that's a nice thing: Other users would not be able to kill your processes. I think even MS Windows has that
15:07:57 <ToBeFree> openttd server is running?
15:08:47 <Bonez305> openttd command not found?
15:08:56 <ToBeFree> sudo apt-get install openttd^^
15:09:03 <ToBeFree> or you install a .deb:
15:09:07 <ToBeFree> sudo dpkg -i file.deb
15:09:51 <ToBeFree> you are not trying to run it as root, too?
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15:10:37 <ToBeFree> I assume it is /usr/games/openttd ;-)
15:10:47 <ToBeFree> /usr/games/openttd -D -f
15:11:56 <ToBeFree> now kill it with htop (SIGTERM), and if you need a valid config to auto-run your server, it is probably the best idea to start a network server from your home computer, then close OpenTTD using the in-game exit button/entry
15:12:32 <ToBeFree> after that, replace the ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg on your server with the config from your PC
15:12:46 * ToBeFree wonders if there will be character encoding problems
15:12:52 <ToBeFree> er, line-break things
15:12:53 <Bonez305> how do I kill the program?
15:13:16 <ToBeFree> with htop open, look for the process (my version has F4 for filtering, but I assume yours has F3 for search again),
15:13:42 <ToBeFree> press the kill key (you'll see that at the bottom, where F3 is also described)
15:13:50 <ToBeFree> and select SIGTERM from the list. Enter and killed^^
15:14:30 <Bonez305> i forgot all about htop :D
15:15:09 <Bonez305> So will openttd stay on even after i disconnect from SSH?
15:16:04 <ToBeFree> if you run it like I wrote, yes :-)
15:16:43 <ToBeFree> not all programs allow you to do it conveniently like this; if you need something else running while you are away, there are tools like "nohup" and "screen"
15:17:13 <ToBeFree> even better, OpenTTD gives you the command line output as a log file, openttd.log, so you can always check what's happening
15:17:41 <ToBeFree> "tail -f ~/.openttd/openttd.log" is nice to see what's happening in real time
15:17:54 <ToBeFree> I assume you need a way to enter admin commands
15:18:03 <ToBeFree> that's possible and easy, too:
15:18:35 <alandarev> ToBeFree: while you are helping with linux server to Bonez305, may I ask some similar questions regardless my debian server?
15:18:53 <ToBeFree> yes; if they are not openttd related, let's move to /query or #linux
15:18:57 <Bonez305> I actually have a Debian server alandarev :D
15:18:57 <alandarev> There are awesome servers with city challenge, but I struggle to make one even on my local windows client
15:19:18 <ToBeFree> Bonez305: in the openttd.cfg, you can add a line like this in the [network] part:
15:19:36 <alandarev> I want to create own server with city challenge like goal, are gamescripts used on those servers private?
15:19:37 <ToBeFree> rcon_password = Ihavakoolpazzword
15:20:08 <ToBeFree> alandarev: do you mean with "private" that nobody can copy them?
15:20:26 <alandarev> ToBeFree: private that they do not share with community
15:20:28 <Bonez305> No he means servers with custom settings
15:20:59 <alandarev> ToBeFree: there are several city challenge servers with all the fancy automation, like "place your HQ to take a city", proteciton etc.. I want same but can't find
15:21:02 <ToBeFree> alandarev: as long as you are able to run it on Windows, you can (probably) easily move it to a Debian/Ubuntu server
15:21:17 <Bonez305> ToBeFree: Should I get rid of all the other settings under [NETWORK]?
15:21:26 <ToBeFree> until you found a way to run a server like this on Windows, I probably can't help you with OS-specific help
15:21:29 <alandarev> ToBeFree: yah, but I can't run it, that's the trick. I can't seem to find scripts those game servers use
15:22:25 <alandarev> I managed to launch server both on windows and linux, I just can't find how would I make my server as awesome as other without needing to write my own game scripts
15:24:18 <ToBeFree> alandarev: that's not OS specific, just saying; I suggest asking the admin of one of the "awesome" servers how they did it
15:24:37 <Bonez305> This forum has alot of gamescripts and helkp available.
15:24:40 <ToBeFree> there are usable game-scripts on the BaNaNaS server (the one you get the GRFs from)
15:24:51 <ToBeFree> but they might not be as awesome as the ones you have seen
15:28:38 <Bonez305> I'd just like something simple where your gamemode restarts after someone makes it to a certain $
15:29:17 <Bonez305> Could I remove network id from config?
15:29:32 <alandarev> Bonez305: yah I am currently surfing this forum
15:30:07 <alandarev> ToBeFree: "might not be as awesome as the ones you have seen" That is exactly the issue, I tried all available in GRFs :(
15:36:05 <ToBeFree> ask the admins of the awesome servers then ;-)
15:36:41 <ToBeFree> give them your email address to send you their scripts or whatever
15:37:04 <alandarev> ToBeFree: based on your experience, how likely it is to happen?
15:37:16 <ToBeFree> Bonez305: you could restart it after a specific year without any scripts afaik
15:37:42 <ToBeFree> alandarev: depends on the admins. If they aren't away or evil, they will give you the scripts
15:37:46 <Bonez305> under restart_game_year? lol
15:38:31 <Bonez305> could I erase what is in the network_id: section?
15:38:37 <ToBeFree> I mean, they run an open-source game, probably even on Linux... Why shouldn't they give you their scripts
15:38:54 <ToBeFree> even if nothing is written there, keep the options
15:39:17 <ToBeFree> alandarev: what what is nogo
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15:39:32 <alandarev> topic name: [NoGo] Neighbours are important
15:39:53 <ToBeFree> why should I know? ;-)
15:40:12 <ToBeFree> again, should be no problem to ask the admin
15:40:15 <alandarev> just asking if somebody knows
15:40:24 <alandarev> it's a topic at tt-forums.net
15:40:39 <alandarev> in Game Scripts section
15:40:47 <ToBeFree> look at the topic then?
15:41:27 <alandarev> no really, I did, and I know what this script is about, but I found no single explanation what NoGo stands for and what it means, evnethough I met it in different places several times aleady
15:44:10 <alandarev> Can I have several game scripts enabled (more than 1) at same time?
15:44:15 <Bonez305> I'm bout to just say f it :/
15:49:31 <Bonez305> Where do I set map size? sprite_Cache_size_px?
15:49:59 <alandarev> Bonez305: based on its name, soundsl ike a very wrong place to modify
15:52:02 <alandarev> where should I place .tar.gz files downloaded directly from bananas?
16:09:01 <peter1139> you should unzip them
16:09:28 <peter1139> and then put it in the approriate data directory
16:17:59 <Ristovski> planetmaker: hmm, could I get voice in the dev channel?
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16:18:52 <V453000> say it here and they will ask you to move the discussion if they deem it necessary
16:20:55 <Ristovski> I just said that since "Voice (talk-right) upon request via #openttd"
16:21:16 <V453000> I just dont understand when people need rights they dont intend to do anything with them
16:27:08 <peter1139> i just don't understand why we need a dev channel when we have here
16:27:29 <michi_cc> Ristovski: The .dev channel is meant as an alternative if this channel gets full with non-dev stuff. Talking here is totally alright.
16:28:18 <peter1139> just kick from here if it gets off topic :p
16:28:40 <michi_cc> Playing OTTD isn't really off topic though ;)
16:41:25 <V453000> I dont think talking about various real life trains is too on-topic either ;) :P
16:41:36 <V453000> or about frosch and unicorns in his garage
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17:07:03 <V453000> speaking of the unicorn
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17:29:16 <HellTiger> are there any costs calculators
17:29:46 <HellTiger> lets say what 1000 railways cost or so
17:31:04 <Pinkbeast> There are some UI elements to show the cost of an individual build before building it (eg a big tunnel) but not really.
17:31:17 <Pinkbeast> In particular rail costs can (and do) change in newgrfs...
17:34:01 <alandarev> how to invite a person to the company? when I try to join my friend, it says he has to invite first
17:34:55 <HellTiger> i wana get oil from oilfield. better make small route for ship and large one for train or let ship drive far?
17:36:16 <alandarev> how to invite to join company?
17:37:08 <molv_> have all your ships in an area drop at the same transfer
17:43:26 <frosch123> alandarev: there is no such thing as invite in ottd
17:43:37 <frosch123> if you are playing on a modified server, you have to ask the server admin
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18:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25125 /trunk/src/lang (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-27 18:45:17 UTC)
18:45:27 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:28 <DorpsGek> lithuanian - 9 changes by Devastator, Stabilitronas
18:45:29 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 1 changes by GunChleoc
18:45:30 <DorpsGek> welsh - 31 changes by kazzie
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19:24:13 <Alberth> and the V person too ! hi :)
19:25:45 <andythenorth> what I need is someone to finish FIRS for me :)
19:26:16 * frosch123 just notices that "V" looks like a unicorn upside-down
19:26:26 * Alberth prints big yellow "FIRS 1.0" stickers
19:28:12 <andythenorth> what I need is some users with actual requirements for documentation
19:28:17 <andythenorth> otherwise I'm guessing :P
19:28:41 <Alberth> HellTiger: Pressing 'shift' gives a cost estimate of an operation
19:29:36 <HellTiger> but for tracks over complete map it dont work Alberth
19:29:50 <HellTiger> oke i could make a test map ultraflat
19:31:10 <Alberth> why do you want to know if you never actually buy it in a game?
19:31:30 * Alberth guesses it is 1000* the cost of a single tile
19:32:17 <Alberth> I stop caring about money the moment I get as much income as I spend buidling new stuff :)
19:37:09 <Alberth> andy: the only form I can think of is a nice industries picture with cargo arrows
19:39:54 <andythenorth> that one I can't do :P
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20:24:24 <Wolf01> I purchased another display, now I could use my computer in stereoscopy :P
20:25:01 <Wolf01> so I can play TT in 3D
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20:28:41 <Alberth> display the entire world at the main view :)
20:37:06 <andythenorth> I fixed up docs a bit
20:37:10 <andythenorth> needs pictures :P
20:39:30 <Alberth> the latter is much prettier :)
20:39:54 <Alberth> I cannot go back to the first page in the set overview, it seems
20:40:21 <Alberth> and lots of the data is too technical, and not aimed at end-users, imho
20:40:24 <andythenorth> prettier because of the images, or the smaller style?
20:41:21 <Alberth> more readable information
20:41:47 <Alberth> ie I don't care about internal IDs, or internal cargo names
20:42:44 <Alberth> and the picture gives a better visualisation of what you talk about then the name of the industry
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20:57:24 <andythenorth> so what are the 'features' of FIRS? :)
20:57:30 <andythenorth> why do you guys play it?
20:57:35 <andythenorth> I need some bullet points for my docs
20:58:26 <Alberth> more connection opportunities
20:58:58 <frosch123> longer cargo chains
20:59:06 <frosch123> different types of cargo requirements
20:59:22 <frosch123> "mass transport" vs. "spreaded transport"
20:59:23 <Alberth> cycle and production boost cause large changes in the transport network
20:59:54 <frosch123> [21:59] <frosch123> different types of cargo requirements <- s/cargo/transport/
21:00:05 <Alberth> "challenges the transport network design" :)
21:00:22 <frosch123> "no realism crap" :p
21:00:41 <Alberth> only if you play with nuts :p
21:00:44 * frosch123 is not so sure abouit that
21:01:09 <andythenorth> can I assume that everyone has html for docs?
21:01:18 <V453000> I would even say the opposite but hm :D
21:01:20 <andythenorth> are there people who really want to be able to read the docs in emacs :P
21:01:44 <frosch123> andythenorth: you can safely assume that noone will read any doc, that is not accessible via a simple click somwehre
21:02:19 <andythenorth> FIRS readme must look horrible in game, it's huge
21:02:45 <V453000> I basically replaced readme with a wiki
21:02:49 <frosch123> i guess you should go for some online doc
21:02:50 <V453000> I had 10k character readme too :s
21:03:54 <ckop64> hey I can't find the autoreplace list item. shouldn't it be on the bottom of the train replacement window?
21:05:05 <frosch123> ottd only has 3 font sizes and 16 colours
21:05:13 <frosch123> no bold or italic and stuff :p
21:05:25 <frosch123> and no bullet points and indenting
21:05:44 <V453000> readme should have minimal amount of info imo
21:05:45 <frosch123> hmm, though you can do that with monospace and unicode bullet points
21:06:49 <V453000> NUTS readme is actually still quite wtflong
21:07:11 <Alberth> andythenorth: python-docutils-0.10-0.6.20120824svn7502.fc18.noarch
21:07:39 <Alberth> is what contains rst2html here
21:08:09 <ckop64> Alberth, I swear it wasn't there 5 minutes ago. :D Whatever, I'm silly. Keep up the good work and happy building for you all! :)
21:08:36 <andythenorth> blearch, docs age badly
21:08:54 <andythenorth> lots of outdated info
21:09:24 <Alberth> doesn't matter, nobody reads it anyway :)
21:10:10 <andythenorth> then they'll complain
21:10:35 <V453000> then only include general info instead of values
21:10:46 <V453000> guess kind of hard to do in case of FIRS
21:11:02 <Alberth> general strategy perhaps?
21:11:42 <V453000> pretty much, when you have an item, write how it is specific
21:12:10 <V453000> I do add speeds there because they are crucial to curve lengths
21:12:27 <V453000> but other than that the page does not age if I change the train stats a bit
21:12:32 <V453000> which I do rahter often
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continue to next day ⏵
