IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-03-09
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12:07:44 <V453000> if there is a logic train, it seems to keep blocking path of both diagonal half-tiles
12:07:59 <V453000> therefore the real train will never leave its spot
12:08:21 <V453000> if you substitute the logic train with a normal train, the longer train will normally depart as expected
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12:08:44 <frosch123> maybe it is too fast?
12:08:56 <frosch123> so when it reverses it always already leaves the tiel
12:09:19 <V453000> something like that I guess
12:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> add another halftile of track, so the time is longer between reversals?
12:10:55 <V453000> it isnt an issue but unexpected behaviour to me, 2 halftiles are enough with all trains, so I am just asking if speed breaking PBS is a bug
12:11:00 <V453000> I know how to solve that :)
12:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> what i think happens: logic train leaves the tile, reverses immediately. then a battle begins between logic train and the normal train, which train can reserve its path. this is usually "won" by the train that accelerates the fastest
12:11:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think it's a bug
12:12:28 <V453000> one of our madmen found how to brutally abuse it :P
12:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> it may be "solveable" by priorities
12:13:33 <V453000> nah you dont really need to solve it, if it is a problem you can always just put there a slower logic train
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12:41:36 <andythenorth_> Is FIRS done yet? Can someone test it? o_O
12:42:14 <frosch123> should we do a tropic or toyland nocargoal game? :)
12:43:05 <planetmaker> anyone knows a NewGRF which defines a currency?
12:43:52 <frosch123> i would think if there is any, then from the czech tycoonez community
12:44:13 <planetmaker> but... there's the czech kroner in the game as well :D
12:44:26 <frosch123> but other than that, it is likely another of of the patchman-wasted-time-on-deving-a-feature-request-which-noone-used-then
12:45:28 <planetmaker> which means we should remove it ;)
12:46:56 <frosch123> to conclude belugas-wasted-time-on-deving-a-ttdp-feature-which-noone-used-then :)
12:48:11 <Alberth> hi andy, fyi I started a little test with temperate basic economy
12:49:02 <V453000> devzone pullstuff just saved my ass btw :P managed to replace one of my templates for wagons and later smartly deleted one of the two :D
12:49:24 <planetmaker> good :D So it pays off to use VCS ;-)
12:49:43 <frosch123> V453000: do you know about tycoonez.com doing a czech translation of ttd for ttdp?
12:50:05 <V453000> I doubt tycoonez.com is doing anything at all
12:50:43 <V453000> I dont know much about them (I dont love them either), but from what I can tell from forum activity (1 post per 2 weeks?), I doubt they are active what so ever
12:51:04 <frosch123> yeah, it died in 2009 together with ttdp or so
12:51:13 <V453000> idk what that is but it is from 2006 :D
12:51:21 <frosch123> minime disappeared about the same time as patchman
12:51:57 <frosch123> V453000: ttdp cannot draw system truetype fonts, so someone started drawing a unicode font himself
12:52:30 <V453000> idk I always used english, I hate czech in games
12:52:35 <V453000> and by hate I mean hate
12:52:50 <frosch123> same applies to all translations of anything
12:53:07 <frosch123> my whole computer is running on an english locale
12:53:18 <V453000> I just wanted to say that I dont know anything about this problematic because I never solved anything there
12:53:21 <frosch123> and when i recently encountered the english translation of my german software at work
12:53:30 <frosch123> i trashed it completely and translated myself :)
12:54:15 <V453000> I often need to use tool-translator when I talk with colleagues who use czech versions of adobe producs :s
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13:00:54 <snappy> Been a long time since I looked into openttd. I was wondering how far along has the newgfx come?
13:01:30 <frosch123> opengfx is done for 3 years
13:01:46 <snappy> wow, really has been a long time for me heh.
13:02:54 <V453000> YAY :D 10 000 X pixels are pure white errors :D that is what I call smooth compiling
13:04:41 <frosch123> what are "X pixels"? are they better than "Y pixels"?
13:07:49 <V453000> x as in substitute with a random number :P
13:11:47 <V453000> not too far, is actually 32
13:22:35 <V453000> nuts at almost 30 000 lines of code ._.
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13:42:41 <frosch123> damn, i hate this hg bug!
13:43:21 <frosch123> whenever i use -m "-Remove: ..." it considers -R as a command line option
13:43:25 <frosch123> instead of a parameter to -m
13:43:45 <frosch123> though i don't even know what option -R is
13:43:46 <planetmaker> that is... peculiar
13:43:54 <frosch123> but then it complains that -m lacks its parameter :p
13:44:15 <planetmaker> which hg version?
13:44:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: no idea what recusive should mean for qnew
13:44:34 <planetmaker> nothing ;-). But... 1.6 is... ancient
13:45:02 <planetmaker> yeah... I got a checkout from hg stable and sometimes update to latest tag :D
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13:59:52 <frosch123> which script language uses {%foobar%} to query the database field "foobar" ?
14:00:44 <frosch123> i have been receiving spam mails from {%FROM_NAME%} for several weeks now :p
14:01:53 <michi_cc> Some random bulk mail software I'd guess.
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14:17:48 <wojteks86> can someone please tell me who created webtranslator? or where did we get it from :D
14:18:52 <Alberth> our sysadmin TB built it
14:19:48 <wojteks86> is it possible to make it an exe? to use locally for other translations too?
14:20:39 <Alberth> it's Python, and aimed specifically at openttd strings
14:21:10 <Alberth> eg newgrf strings are already different
14:21:34 <wojteks86> I was just thinking... having it as a local app would make life so much easier for a translator :D
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14:22:07 <wojteks86> Im not that experienced so not sure what is the difference between newgrf strings and ottd?
14:22:56 <Alberth> the set of {...} commands is different, for example
14:22:57 <wojteks86> I will start some time this month, I think
14:23:10 <Alberth> nice, we should talk then
14:23:29 <Alberth> do you know about the eints project at devzone?
14:23:39 <wojteks86> that's gonna take me 10 years, but I will then share it here :P
14:24:39 <Alberth> it's a web app I am building to do translations of newgrf strings
14:26:44 <Alberth> but it could also be used as a back-end for uploading and downloading changes from another application, eg like one you are considering to write
14:27:38 <wojteks86> STR_BEER :{YELLOW}{COMMA} bottles of beer are needed
14:29:24 <wojteks86> ok so you are writing a web app
14:29:47 <wojteks86> I was thinking of an application that uses locally stored text files
14:30:24 <Alberth> there are actually 2 problems
14:31:22 <Alberth> one is that a newgrf project currently just has files, but they don't have enough information about what strings need to be worked on
14:32:33 <Alberth> also, an application like yours needs something to talk to when uploading or downloading changes
14:32:47 <Alberth> eg merging changes of different translators
14:32:53 <wojteks86> or you can choose a source file manually
14:33:12 <Alberth> what if several authors work in the same language file?
14:33:28 <wojteks86> well, thats how it works atm
14:33:35 <Alberth> and the newgrf author also decides to change the files that you just downloaded
14:34:21 <Alberth> that's the application I am making currently, it knows what strings need work, and keeps track of updates from everybody
14:34:55 <wojteks86> you have more exp and Im sure you know how to do it better :D honestly
14:35:11 <wojteks86> I was just too selfish ;)
14:35:36 <Alberth> no, you're not, but you're missing some pieces of the bigger puzzle :)
14:36:27 <wojteks86> the reason for that is that I seem to be the only active Polish translator at the moment, but I know there are quite a few for Dutch and German
14:37:13 <Alberth> Well, my webapp thus keeps track of what needs work. That's a bit useless in itself, if you cannot change strings as well.
14:37:14 <Alberth> Thus I am extending my application with web-based editing of strings.
14:37:17 <wojteks86> a tool I thought of would be useful only for me, unless there is another translator out there who wants to translate the same newgrf as me
14:37:44 <Alberth> However, an application like you propose is also on my wish list.
14:37:51 <wojteks86> it will be very useful when you finish
14:38:25 <Alberth> so I think we can combine the effort
14:38:32 <wojteks86> why? is there something you would like to do with the strings locally even when you'd have your own app done?
14:39:38 <Alberth> tbh, yes. I want to click 'get all updates from all projects', and I can edit the strings locally
14:39:58 <wojteks86> ah, that would be useful
14:40:37 <wojteks86> does that mean you could vote for translations and choose the one that suits the most?
14:41:14 <Alberth> if you want to build your application, eints can be a source of changes that need to be handled, and it can accept work you have done.
14:41:40 <Alberth> Also, the code can parse strings, check correctness of them, and so on
14:42:05 <Alberth> which is code you'll also need, so it can be a source of inspiration on how to do things
14:42:21 <Alberth> or, if you use Python3, you can just copy it :)
14:42:59 <wojteks86> when did you start coding?
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14:43:24 <wojteks86> no, I mean in general :D
14:43:36 <Alberth> but I started looking at strings and translations much longer ago
14:44:00 <mapa-falsh> i ment ,i need a big help
14:44:00 <Alberth> wojteks86: oh, in general, hmm, let's see, 30 years ago or so? :)
14:44:09 <Alberth> mapa-falsh: just ask the question
14:44:21 <wojteks86> that explains a lot :)
14:44:32 <mapa-falsh> how i install a latest version of openttd on my linux mint 13?
14:44:50 <Alberth> install the generic linux binary
14:44:52 <mapa-falsh> ... btw i am compleate noob in question or working on linux
14:45:16 <Alberth> 'install' mostly means download and unpack :)
14:45:45 <mapa-falsh> hmm... ok i installed so i will try to unpack it..... brb
14:46:00 <mapa-falsh> *install=*downloaded
14:46:09 <Alberth> mapa-falsh: no problem, we're not going anywhere :)
14:47:00 <Alberth> it's raining outside, you don't want to go outside anyway :)
14:47:25 <wojteks86> not raining out here
14:47:36 <wojteks86> I need to catch a bus in 30 mins ;)
14:47:42 <mapa-falsh> hmm i downloaded for my linux mint 13 a ubuntu version 12.04? is that ok?
14:47:43 <Alberth> quickly go now before it starts then :)
14:48:03 <Alberth> that's not 'generic linux' afaik
14:49:41 <wojteks86> I've never touched linux so cant really help, sorry
14:49:55 <mapa-falsh> lol it works..... for now.... and i am happy with it
14:50:03 <planetmaker> mapa-falsh, get the generic linux binary. Unpack in a dir of your choice. Start the binary
14:50:06 <mapa-falsh> btw thx a lot guyz
14:50:39 <mapa-falsh> planetmaker: i instaled it somehow and it is running... for now
14:51:08 <Alberth> mapa-falsh: you are running the right version?
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14:51:25 <Alberth> the title bar tells you
14:51:38 <kero> please, is there a way for a gamescript datas being preserved in a savegame ?
14:51:50 <mapa-falsh> Alberth: atleast for now game is runing
14:51:57 <kero> (or an alternative file, also)
14:52:55 <Alberth> wojteks86: please consider whether you want to interface to eints or not. If not, that's fine too. If you have further questions just ask me
14:53:01 <wojteks86> right, I need to get going, Alberth, thanks for your help and advise ;)
14:53:14 <Alberth> mapa-falsh: ok, if it works, that's ok then :)
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15:01:09 <frosch123> kero: gamescripts can save and load whatever data they like to
15:01:54 <Alberth> andythenorth_: I pushed some language updates to firs
15:02:51 <kero> frosch123 : Interesting. Now I just need to figure out how :)
15:03:22 <planetmaker> kero, you might want to refer to some existing one. I know it exists. But I don't know in which
15:03:55 <frosch123> you can also look at sillicon valley, nocargoal or various AIs for examples
15:05:05 <kero> ok, great, i'll look at that
15:05:30 <kero> planetmaker : actually, i'm already working on a made script, which I'm trying to improve
15:05:49 <planetmaker> :-) always a good start
15:06:04 <kero> I calculate a mobile average, and I want to save the datas in case of reloading the game
15:06:12 <frosch123> i like the table at the bottom of that wiki page
15:06:29 <frosch123> it says "no" all throughout the "hardcode into ais" column :)
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15:07:07 <frosch123> which is correct, but putting it into a table like that kind of stresses the point :)
15:09:55 <kero> frosch123 : great, that's exactly what I was looking for
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15:20:33 <RXShorty> I have a question about the dedicated server. I want to slow down the game speed, meaning it takes longer time for passing a year or so
15:21:39 <RXShorty> I have checked the openttd.cfg but can't find anything that is related to this setting. Am I correct?
15:22:14 <Alberth> as in, you cannot set the speed
15:22:34 <RXShorty> Pitty... found some servers online that did fix that somehow.
15:23:01 <frosch123> you can pause the game when noone is playing
15:23:08 <frosch123> as in no client connected
15:23:18 <frosch123> but you cannot change the speed while people are playing
15:23:35 <Alberth> there are patches around that implement some form of it, but it's not in standard openttd
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15:25:02 <Alberth> note that your clients need the exact same version to play with
15:25:22 <RXShorty> Ok yes we are using 1.2.3 atm
15:25:25 <Alberth> so you cannot run a patched server, and have clients connect with a normal version
15:25:46 <RXShorty> Any idea where I can find such a patch?
15:26:01 <RXShorty> Sorry for the many questions, but we have a few new players... ;)
15:28:31 <Alberth> no idea tbh, I'd start looking in the development section of the forums
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16:10:25 <kero> Squirrel is maybee a nice language but it's very hard to find some learning tutorial about it
16:10:38 <kero> does somebody has some documentation ?
16:10:49 * Alberth ponders about "Advanced"ness of settings, in particular, as the difficulty settings are gone now
16:11:15 * NGC3982 wonders about how squirrel linguistics works out.
16:12:39 <planetmaker> hm, Alberth :-) Sounds like a good point
16:15:28 <frosch123> Alberth: once game options are gone, we can rename it just to settings :)
16:16:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25072 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-09 16:16:17 UTC)
16:16:24 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Don't require the custom currency to be the last defined one
16:16:32 <frosch123> anyway, i think "advanced" is a nice disclaimer
16:16:36 <frosch123> for people to not look at them :p
16:20:38 <Alberth> luckily we have the advanced basic settings :)
16:21:53 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25073 trunk/src/currency.h (2013-03-09 16:21:47 UTC)
16:21:54 <DorpsGek> -Doc: Improve Currencies enum description
16:23:28 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25074 trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp (2013-03-09 16:23:22 UTC)
16:23:29 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Simplify currency selection code slightly
16:24:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25075 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-03-09 16:24:43 UTC)
16:24:50 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Allow for more than 32 currencies
16:32:02 <DorpsGek> Commit by planetmaker :: r25076 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-03-09 16:31:56 UTC)
16:32:03 <DorpsGek> -Add [FS#5212]: Georgian Lari and Iranian Rial as currencies
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17:55:17 <Alberth> good night planetmaker
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18:28:16 <Ristovski> can you load a .sav in the scenario editor so you can edit the map?
18:29:12 <frosch123> yes, just rename it to .scn
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18:29:30 <Ristovski> frosch123: hmm this works too: "openttd -e -g name.sav"
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18:32:11 <NGC3982> How can fast growth be achieved with OpenGFX+?
18:32:34 <NGC3982> I have this diamon mine that never reached >40 bags :(
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18:45:36 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25077 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-03-09 18:45:27 UTC)
18:45:37 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:38 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 8 changes by Wowanxm
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> korean - 7 changes by telk5093
18:45:40 <DorpsGek> latvian - 3 changes by Parastais
18:45:41 <DorpsGek> polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
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20:17:57 <andythenorth> did cirdan do the 'close airports' patch? o_O
20:18:06 <andythenorth> that's my favourite feature in ages
20:22:32 <Alberth> it's a nice part of the puzzle :)
20:24:24 * andythenorth has some...ideas
20:31:11 <Alberth> hmm, loading stuff before starting the web server is useless :(
20:31:42 <frosch123> this noon i coded a small hackish patch, which did what it should in most cases
20:31:57 <frosch123> now i am trying to do it properly and run into dozen problems :p
20:32:21 <frosch123> maybe i should publish the first hack on the forums and request inclusion from the devs
20:34:47 <Alberth> oh, it's me, forgot to add a 'global' declaration.
20:35:27 <Alberth> frosch123: but now you've already told the devs it's broken
20:36:17 <frosch123> well, it is well-tested at least
20:36:27 <frosch123> since when does the test result matter?
20:37:53 <frosch123> i thought that's the usual way. medicine is well-tested in studies. food is under constant quality-observation. but noone asks about the results of the studies or tests :)
20:39:42 <Alberth> good point, I'd suggest to wait a little over three weeks
20:40:13 <andythenorth> idea numero uno: should buy menu show vehicle loading speed? Or is it a non-useful property?
20:40:16 <MNIM> frosch123: but what does it do?
20:40:27 <andythenorth> MNIM: it does whatever you want it to do :)
20:40:45 <andythenorth> and some unexpected things too, from the sound of it
20:41:35 <MNIM> I want it to do enhanced tunnels and signals in tunnels and bridges.
20:41:40 <MNIM> betcha it doesn't do that
20:41:53 <Alberth> andythenorth: NUTS does, but I don't really take notice of it
20:42:45 <Alberth> MNIM: I am sure some hack-ish patches exist for that
20:42:50 <MNIM> 2CC trainset does, though some loading speeds are mildly silly, otherwise rather useful
20:43:30 <MNIM> Alberth: I know of signals on bridges and tunnels but hackish is an understatement there, don't know about enhanced tunnels
20:44:32 <Alberth> signals on tunnels is not an enhancement?
20:45:33 <andythenorth> ok idea numero duo: sometimes I want FIRS industries to show recent cargo deliveries and/or current production ratio
20:45:40 <andythenorth> I could do that with text
20:45:56 <andythenorth> or I could do it by drawing it into the ground tile, and then using invisble to look
20:46:27 <andythenorth> neither of which requires a patch for ottd :)
20:46:58 <andythenorth> or we could add 'recently delivered cargo' to ottd
20:49:08 <andythenorth> "other languages are available" :)
20:51:14 <Alberth> can't you use the 'waiting to be processed' silly texts?
20:51:52 <Alberth> imho, adding fixed texts to openttd would be a bad idea
20:59:59 <andythenorth> there's not much I can do with those silly texts :)
21:00:13 <andythenorth> although...I noticed recently, George has managed to customise them in ECS
21:00:21 <andythenorth> I don't know how he's done that :o
21:02:16 <andythenorth> maybe cargo subtype strings
21:03:00 <andythenorth> hmm, ECS isn't GPL?
21:04:38 <Alberth> no idea what its license is
21:07:36 <andythenorth> there are some FIRS graphics in there from other people under GPL
21:07:57 <andythenorth> I told ge*rge he can use my sprites, but that doesn't extend to other people :(
21:15:10 <Alberth> so technically, he is not obeying the license :p
21:15:33 <andythenorth> and I should chase that :(
21:15:43 <andythenorth> also how do I get OpenTTD to persist settings?
21:15:48 <andythenorth> it has always mystified me
21:16:29 <andythenorth> I keep selecting 'GS: none' and every time I start the program, I have a GS selected again
21:16:56 <Alberth> set it from the main menu, and save
21:17:15 <andythenorth> oh, I have to 'accept'? :o
21:17:50 <andythenorth> and 'accept' is so widely used elsewhere of course :P
21:18:01 <andythenorth> and we always put the default button on the left too
21:18:05 <andythenorth> except when we don't
21:18:07 <Alberth> if there is such a button, it does not hurt to try it :)
21:18:33 <Alberth> yeah, it's nicely consistent and so
21:18:51 <andythenorth> newgrf settings: apply (bottom right)
21:18:58 <andythenorth> game options: no requirement to save
21:19:04 <andythenorth> advanced options: no requirement to save
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21:19:21 <andythenorth> load game: load is bottom right
21:19:39 <Alberth> we seem to nee a few 'ok' buttons near the top
21:19:42 <andythenorth> GS: accept (bottom left)
21:19:53 <andythenorth> some dialogs save when closing, others have to be closed explicitly
21:20:21 <Alberth> hmm, sounds like a nice todo thingie
21:20:24 <andythenorth> the GS / AI window sucks a bit
21:20:35 <andythenorth> opens smaller than the others, and the layout is just meh
21:20:57 <andythenorth> oh, and, of course, it has an explicit 'close' button
21:21:06 <andythenorth> even though there is also the standard 'x' on the window :P
21:21:21 <andythenorth> who made it? Am I hurting their feelings? :)
21:22:12 <andythenorth> the mix of stateless and non-stateless stuff is one thing, the other thing is the lack of consistency in gui
21:22:33 <andythenorth> Is the source code available? o_O
21:23:16 <frosch123> andythenorth: blame tb :)
21:25:14 <andythenorth> ho ho, I just found FIRS 0.1.0 in my grf list
21:25:19 <andythenorth> what does that look like? o_O
21:27:06 <andythenorth> yeah, it's about the same
21:27:08 <andythenorth> not much changed
21:27:12 <frosch123> i am quite sure it does not work in ottd 0.1.0
21:28:59 <andythenorth> only a few changes since 0.1.0
21:29:07 <andythenorth> hardly worth the effort afaict :P
21:29:40 <frosch123> maybe you should look in the middle?
21:29:52 <frosch123> maybe you added lots of stuff and then reverted it again :p
21:30:07 <andythenorth> that does seem to be the case
21:30:14 <andythenorth> also redrew nearly everything
21:30:25 <andythenorth> and ported the code about 4 times
21:30:31 <frosch123> if 0.5.0 has most, maybe 1.0.0 should be an empty grf?
21:30:40 <andythenorth> interesting idea
21:30:44 <andythenorth> I'll consider it :)
21:30:56 <andythenorth> when will vehicle 'views' be done?
21:31:02 <andythenorth> and what are they? oO
21:31:26 <frosch123> the end of the world maybe
21:31:40 <frosch123> i think that term is currently available
21:31:52 <frosch123> i am not aware of anyone having proclaimed it again lately
21:32:44 <andythenorth> I knew there was something to worry about it
21:32:53 <andythenorth> not having the end of the world to worry about does worry me
21:33:42 <frosch123> yeah, when is the next end of the world?
21:33:53 * frosch123 likes using "next" in that context
21:35:39 <andythenorth> so the thing about views
21:35:50 <andythenorth> in Squid / FISH / whatever it's called
21:36:02 <andythenorth> I randomise the graphics for each ship model a bit
21:36:08 <andythenorth> which is going to cause confused players
21:36:16 <andythenorth> "I built a ship and it looks different"
21:38:40 <Alberth> opengfx+ does that too with wagons
21:39:00 <Alberth> it changes colours and appearance
21:39:48 <Alberth> it's nice for displaying in the game world, but somewhat confusing in the buy menu
21:40:23 <andythenorth> it's a nice feature - I'm going to keep it....I just know it will have this side effect :)
21:41:01 <Alberth> if you know it works that way, it's not a problem
21:41:13 <frosch123> i would hope that would also happen irl
21:41:22 <frosch123> like buying a cheap car and it turns out to be a sports car
21:41:45 <Alberth> does that ever happen? :)
21:42:26 <frosch123> well, with sports cars all kind things happen
21:43:21 <frosch123> like a maelstrom appearing inside the fuel tank when accelerating
21:44:17 <Alberth> 1 liter every 400m ? :) Cruise ships do that
21:44:52 <V453000> NUTS express wagons look almost never the same as they do in the purchase menu :P
21:44:56 <Alberth> tanks are also horrible :)
21:45:07 <V453000> well they do if they are not attached to stuff
21:45:39 <frosch123> otoh nuts pax wagon look the same even when refitting to different colour :p
21:45:45 <Alberth> V453000: but the choice in wagons is fairly limited, which makes life a lot easier
21:45:51 * andythenorth has rebalanced Squid
21:47:12 <Alberth> I like your unlimited cargo teleport idea :) I used a instant-win button, but your idea is much better
21:47:12 <andythenorth> the problem with newgrfs is....play testings
21:48:04 <V453000> I felt like instant win button wasnt descriptive enough :P
21:48:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: yeah, in particular when OpenTTD sabotages your nice RV feeder
21:50:49 <andythenorth> if no grf was ever played, there would be a lot more 1.0 versions :P
21:53:16 <Alberth> I started playing with the FIRS station rating, and I found it has a HUGE impact compared to OpenTTD rating, even if you have an engine constantly loading
21:54:00 <Alberth> you only need a few industries to push production into the thousands of goods
21:54:14 <andythenorth> it's probably too generous
21:54:18 <andythenorth> but I like it :)
21:57:18 <Alberth> I can't beat that argument :)
22:00:18 <andythenorth> I need a web translator app for FISH
22:00:25 <andythenorth> maintaining strings is boring
22:00:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: here's a case I don't see in the design (yet) :)
22:00:38 <andythenorth> I delete a string
22:00:46 <andythenorth> it needs removing from all lang files
22:00:53 <andythenorth> we could do that right?
22:01:54 <Alberth> just upload a new base language version
22:01:55 <andythenorth> I missed that :o
22:02:11 <andythenorth> we should finish it :P
22:02:27 <andythenorth> I got distracted by boats
22:02:46 <Alberth> I got distracted by FreeRCT :)
22:03:58 <Alberth> did we decide something about managing access of translators to the files?
22:04:55 <Alberth> I invented a project-owner that controls who can translate languages in his/her project
22:06:03 <Alberth> ie person X and Y may change strings in language ab_CD
22:06:43 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
22:07:20 <andythenorth> so access control list
22:07:42 <Alberth> is that how it's called? :)
22:07:59 <Alberth> I also invented a syntax for configuring eints
22:08:16 <andythenorth> the python frameworks have varying degrees of ACL
22:08:31 <andythenorth> from 'none' to 'every single object lookup has a permission check'
22:09:02 <Alberth> I just need to actually create a project owner field somewhere, and a list translators for a language in a projevt
22:12:31 <Alberth> should we add web pages to set these, or is some file sufficient (where the system administrator of the site can make changes)
22:12:59 <andythenorth> file means SSH access to the place the thing is running
22:13:28 <andythenorth> delegate the security to that
22:13:28 <andythenorth> securing our own web-thing to add add project owners is more of a headache
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22:40:28 <frogzilla> Hey guys. I'm trying to run a dedicated server on Ubuntu linux with openttd -D but I get an error: "could not bind on IPv4 port [xxx] (IPv4): Cannot assign requested address". Any ideas?
22:43:01 <MNIM> a quick google suggests checking your firewall, assuming if you haven't already done so
22:44:25 <frogzilla> Google is my friend but I have no experience with linux at all so I was hoping for a more tailored answer from the experts.
22:45:49 <frogzilla> I just shut down the entire firewall and I'm now trying again.
22:50:23 <KenjiE20> if it can't bind a port, it tends to mean that the port is used, not that the firewall is blocking
22:52:18 <frogzilla> I tried different ports. It's a clean install so nothing else should be running. /etc/network/interfaces shows auto for eth0 and ifconfig shows it gets a local IP address from the router. The modem forwards all traffic to the local IP 192.168.178.32 (linux server). It works on Windows (running a server and 'advertising' it in the list).
22:52:19 <kero> use nestat -lapute to watch if the port is being used
22:52:39 <kero> what kind of ports did you try ?
22:54:12 <frogzilla> netstat -lapute shows only one port 7569 in use by dhclient3.
22:55:52 <frogzilla> I tried the default (4938) and one I found in an internet forum (3978)
22:56:07 <frogzilla> I also tried with no port parameter
22:57:05 <DorpsGek> KenjiE20: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
22:57:25 <KenjiE20> where'd 4938 com from?
22:59:39 <KenjiE20> does dbg [net] show ant n) xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx lines for you?
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23:03:00 <frogzilla> No command 'dbg' found, did you mean dbd, dig, kdbg, dlg or dfbg
23:05:36 <frogzilla> Where can I find that?
23:06:06 <frogzilla> I'd expect to find it in /root/openttd, but there seems to be no log there
23:06:45 <KenjiE20> iirc it normally outputs to the console
23:10:22 <frogzilla> It goes too fast. I tried writing it to a file using > debug.txt but it only shows 'ERROR: Could not start server'
23:11:57 <KenjiE20> could probably use the less/more tools to page it
23:14:31 <frogzilla> I tried that as well. It doesn't work.
23:14:47 <frogzilla> It just shoots by at lightningspeed.
23:15:00 <KenjiE20> ssh'ing or working directly?
23:15:53 <KenjiE20> ah wait, you said was only one server up, so directly
23:18:43 <xQR> is there anyway to completely disable (display of) chat in multiplayer?
23:18:47 <frogzilla> It's a virtual machine. You can SSH if you like, there is not much you could destroy.
23:19:23 <frogzilla> I can now scroll. Thank you.
23:19:28 <xQR> i set network_chat_timeout = 1 so that it disappears after a second and made network_chat_box_* as small as possible but is there a way to completely get rid of the chat?
23:20:53 <frogzilla> There is no line that looks like dbg [net] show ant n) xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx
23:22:09 <KenjiE20> this makes me think either a) the vm hasn't got/loaded any ethernet adapters, or b) the build of openttd doesn't see it, probably a
23:22:42 <frogzilla> I can apt-get stuff and I used lynx to surf the web. It has a local IP address and internet. What more does it need?
23:23:57 <frogzilla> I explicitly selected the option to 'bridge network' so it would get its own IP and I could use port forwarding on the modem to this device. Exactly how I do it on Windows and there it works.
23:25:04 <KenjiE20> well if there's no dbg [net] number and ip lines in the log, that means openttd isn't seeing the adapter
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23:27:22 <frogzilla> "dbg: [net] could not bind on IPv4 port 192.168.1.32:3979 (IPv4): Cannot assign requested address"
23:27:37 <frogzilla> That is its local IP. OpenTTD gets it from somewhere
23:32:24 <xQR> if you want it to bind to a different IP just tell OpenTTD in the config
23:32:33 <xQR> there is a [server_bind_addresses] section in openttd.cfg for that
23:32:44 <KenjiE20> he's tried other ports
23:32:53 <Supercheese> Version 2.0 thread troll-y as usual
23:34:04 <KenjiE20> though really the only thing I can think of is /something/ is sat on that port =/
23:34:43 <xQR> that's usually the reason for this error, yes
23:35:08 <KenjiE20> oh a xQR akaict there's no disable for the chat
23:36:15 <xQR> frogzilla try "netstat -tulpn | grep :3979"
23:36:28 <xQR> should show you whether something is listening on that port
23:36:47 <xQR> maybe an openttd instance of an earlier test that has crashed and is still blocking the port?
23:39:19 <frogzilla> I restarted the virtual machine several times as well, thereby making it unlikely that a previous version is bothering us.
23:39:21 <xQR> then something is wrong with the IP address it tries to bind to
23:40:09 <KenjiE20> hmm, you said the modem is forwarding to 192.168.178.32, yet openttd is binding to 192.168.1.32?
23:40:59 <frogzilla> That is a little detail I missed but it's most likely the cause of the problem
23:41:13 <xQR> [00:32:34] xQR there is a [server_bind_addresses] section in openttd.cfg for that
23:41:16 <KenjiE20> wrong ip on the vm could be it
23:41:25 <xQR> in that section add the line: 192.168.178.32 =
23:42:13 <frogzilla> I restarted it. Now it is 192.178.178.35try your solution
23:42:58 <KenjiE20> it defaults to 0.0.0.0, so unless you already went in and edited that.....
23:45:51 <frogzilla> That fixed part of the problem. It somehow took 169.168.1.32. Changed it to 169.168.178.35 and now it starts. It still doesn't advertise though.
23:46:16 <DorpsGek> KenjiE20: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
23:46:24 <KenjiE20> that needs to other port forwarded
23:46:52 <KenjiE20> and the advertise setting in cfg, which I think is defaulted on
23:49:33 <frogzilla> Hell yeah! We're online!
23:50:00 <frogzilla> advertise setting was off by default. Changed to true and now it works.
23:50:36 <KenjiE20> been a while since I looked at a default cfg :p
23:50:55 <xQR> i was unsure about that too, next time i know ;)
23:50:59 <frogzilla> Thanks a lot. I now see these 'queried from xx.xx.xxx.xxx' coming by so I guess some people can see it.
23:52:08 <xQR> but it makes sense if you think about it, someone starting his server the first time rarely already has it perfectly configured, he is more likely still doing a lot of testing and his server will go up and down
23:52:08 <frogzilla> Now to update the server. It is 1.1.4 and the client is 1.2.3.
23:52:18 <xQR> not a good idea to have advertising activated right from the start
23:52:50 <xQR> so it should be an active decision of an administrator to enable it
23:52:53 <frogzilla> Yup. Sounds reasonable. But that was essential to test because if it doesn't it makes no sense in trying further.
23:53:33 <xQR> yeah, server would be pointless if nobody can reach it ;)
23:56:59 <frogzilla> Should I download the newest version from openttd.org and install it? apt-get doesn't have a newer version than 1.1.4.
23:57:45 <xQR> yes you should, otherwise your server won't find many players
23:58:30 <xQR> the website has ubuntu packages
23:58:53 <xQR> so the update should be easy
continue to next day ⏵
