IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-23
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05:23:33 <Supercheese> you could check the source code, if you haven't already
05:31:39 <Supercheese> Vehicle.cpp lines 895-899 seem relevant
05:38:23 <Supercheese> I can't immediately see anything that would lead to the pattern described
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07:09:59 <Pikka> I blame peter1138, naturally
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08:24:26 <andythenorth> time for baby minding
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08:24:35 <Supercheese> Well, that was quick
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09:24:58 <DDR> Hey, guys, quickie question:
09:25:00 <DDR> Does anyone know of an editor that lets you have duplicates of an area, so that when you edit one instance of the area you edit them all?
09:31:16 <Supercheese> Sort of like search & replace in all/opened files?
09:31:32 <Supercheese> Or more of a side-by-side/tiled approach?
09:31:46 <Supercheese> Notepad++ can do side-by-side I think
09:32:59 <Supercheese> anyway, good night
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10:44:54 <DDR> I actually meant graphically, like, for a .png or something. :P
10:45:29 <DDR> Not even inter-file, just within itself. I think it'd be useful for testing if my tiles... tile.
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10:57:58 <jonty-comp> i think the GRFMaker pixel editor used to do that
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11:04:23 <peter1138> meant but didn't specify :p
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11:14:59 <Terkhen> hi Alberth and andythenorth
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11:52:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: you were driving? o_O
11:53:21 <Pikka> I never did anything that bad
11:54:42 <Pikka> worst thing I ever did was run into a stationary van full of coppers, while my trainer was a passenger on the bus :D
11:56:25 <andythenorth> Alberth: what credit line do you want on the footer of Web Translator?
11:57:01 <Pikka> and trap a little girl's head between the back door and the ticket machine, but that was a design flaw in the bus. :)
11:57:01 <andythenorth> An OpenTTD project?
11:57:40 <Alberth> no idea, really. Currently it's newgrf translations only
11:58:11 <andythenorth> we are coop yes?
11:58:26 <Alberth> if you credit me, you should credit yourself too :)
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12:00:26 <andythenorth> should I make newgrfs?
12:01:45 <Pikka> landslides and curry houses
12:02:07 <frosch123> that's neither freezing cold, not > 40°C
12:02:18 <frosch123> db is far better with such situations
12:02:54 <andythenorth> spose I could add random ship graphics
12:02:57 <andythenorth> that needs doing :P
12:03:08 * Rubidium remembers those sauna ICEs
12:03:21 <Rubidium> apparantly people didn't like it
12:03:29 <frosch123> yeah, they collapsed
12:03:41 <frosch123> or tried to smash the windows at > 180 km/h and such :)
12:04:53 <Pikka> frosch: temperature is neither here nor there when you have 130km/h winds and a metre of rain in a day :)
12:05:20 <fonsinchen> What formula should I use to calculate the expected run time of a link graph job in ticks?
12:05:44 <frosch123> hmm, what's the current version of heqs?
12:06:11 <fonsinchen> 2^#nodes / big_static_number + other_static_number in theory
12:06:11 <Rubidium> frosch123: how about "latest" or "nice"?
12:06:56 <frosch123> "most recent" according to topic
12:07:31 <andythenorth> frosch123: the one on Bananaananananaaa
12:07:43 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: I'm not sure how well estimations would actually go; in fast forward they take more ticks, if it is a single core single thread CPU they take more ticks as well
12:07:53 <andythenorth> repo says HEQS 1.5.5
12:08:13 <andythenorth> that's over 12 months old :(
12:08:16 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: then there's also the issues with memory/cpu caches
12:08:42 <Rubidium> actually, if the repository is mercurial... then the most recent version is never a tagged version
12:08:54 <frosch123> ah, right.. i rememeber deleting my bananas folder
12:08:59 <frosch123> that's why i only have 1.2 :p
12:09:39 <fonsinchen> Well, currently it's just "whatever you set as recalc_interval". That is about the worst estimation you can get.
12:09:41 <frosch123> it greeted me with a lot of "grf is broken" messages :)
12:09:57 <frosch123> so i wondered whether i broke something, or whether i just used the wrong version :)
12:11:33 <fonsinchen> But maybe I should keep it static after all. Like this I can just say "increase the interval" to anyone who runs into problems. Finding a working formula is probably very hard.
12:12:57 <fonsinchen> Has anyone ever had problems with the standard 16 days interval, btw? I remember that one guy who was playing the Cindini map with tons and tons of stations.
12:18:02 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: maybe, in single player without fast forward and pausing, you could detect that the recalc interval is overrun regularly and then suggest to increase the recalc time with some explanations of the repercussions
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12:43:29 <fonsinchen> I'll stick to the configurable interval with default 16 days for now. The extra overrun detection can be done later.
12:43:46 <michi_cc> andy, andy, andy... ;)
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14:50:17 <CAN> I finally get a working version of openttd to my Nokia Phone it's a version named r15770. I would like to connect it with my PC for online gaming but i'm having trouble to find a pc version of openttd r15770 ,anyone any idea where can i get it?
14:51:33 <frosch123> i doubt anyone has a 4 year old random nightly around
14:51:45 <frosch123> so you have to checkout that specific version from the source repository
14:51:48 <frosch123> and compile it yourself
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15:01:38 <Alberth> a version control system, keeping all 25036 versions that existed
15:01:49 <Alberth> look for "subversion"
15:04:10 <Alberth> andy, you didn't add static files yet?
15:12:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: not yet
15:12:43 <andythenorth> been trying to buy a car :P
15:13:40 <frosch123> don't go for a crawler or rail vehicle, they are quite slow
15:14:14 <andythenorth> buying cars is....cold
15:14:22 <andythenorth> at least in February
15:14:41 <wojteks86> what car are you after?
15:14:55 <Alberth> yeah, but since many people think that way, you can get a good bargain :)
15:14:57 <frosch123> likely a 10 truck-consist
15:15:01 <andythenorth> we have car seat problems
15:15:05 <andythenorth> car seats are big
15:15:28 <andythenorth> right, let's make some web translator
15:15:49 <wojteks86> any updates? been there today and no new strings for me :D
15:16:15 <frosch123> web translator != web translator :)
15:17:09 <wojteks86> I know what != is, but I dont understand you :P
15:17:36 <Alberth> wojteks86: if you're bored, translate the tutorial GS :)
15:18:00 <Alberth> not sure you can actually use that, perhaps check that first :)
15:18:31 <frosch123> english is a context sensitive language. if albert talks with andy about webtranslators, it's not wt3 which ottd-translators know :)
15:18:52 <wojteks86> yes, I would have to read the whole tutorial first, then try to translate :) but OK, where do I find the strings? or is it on the wiki?
15:19:28 <Alberth> wojteks86: I meant I am not sure you can use polish strings in a GS
15:19:55 <Alberth> strings are in the tar file, I think
15:21:10 <wojteks86> yep, there is no Polish translation yet
15:21:31 <wojteks86> been there, but was trying to go alphabetically through all the GRFs
15:21:47 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm not sure where to put the static declarations. Is there some kind of main class or dispatcher?
15:21:48 <wojteks86> so I did av8, then firs and few others
15:22:40 <Alberth> andythenorth: main.py is the main entry point
15:22:52 <Alberth> I import all page/* files there
15:26:45 <wojteks86> are you guys doing some work in c++ for OTTD? I have a question about window positioning
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15:33:05 <Alberth> is /me working in c++ for OTTD a pre-condition for asking your question?
15:33:52 <Alberth> in that case, you're out of luck, I am reporting a bug at the moment, and then I'll do some Python program fixing
15:33:56 <wojteks86> probably yes, because it is related to the OTTD code, not generally c++
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15:34:08 <Alberth> but otherwise, just ask the question :)
15:34:25 <wojteks86> I must stop asking pre-questions... :P
15:35:07 <wojteks86> do you know how the window positioning works in OTTD? there are 4 cases: auto, manual, allign to toolbar and some other which I dont remember
15:35:37 <wojteks86> whatever I set in the code, seems to be ignored for windows but gui
15:36:14 <wojteks86> that means - if I change something from auto to allign to toolbar - it will work just as it did before the change
15:37:14 <Alberth> I suspect there are other conditions that must hold as well
15:37:47 <wojteks86> there are other attributes
15:38:04 <Alberth> toolbar alignment is typically done for direct child windows, but I don't know whether that is a requirement
15:38:39 <wojteks86> right, so how about manual?
15:39:03 <wojteks86> right after the position, there are x & y
15:39:20 <wojteks86> whatever they are (even 0,0 ) doesnt make any difference to the new window position
15:39:51 * Alberth looks for the source code
15:41:23 <wojteks86> check orders_gui.cpp for example
15:41:58 <Alberth> LocalGetWindowPlacement in windows.cpp does the magic (around line 1460)
15:44:25 <wojteks86> well, that was quick...
15:44:54 <Alberth> I know my way in the gui system, I rewrote most of it :)
15:45:23 <wojteks86> must have been a lot of work...
15:45:30 <wojteks86> if a lot is enough?
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15:46:10 <Alberth> the orders gui has a WC_VEHICLE_VIEW parent it seems, so I would expect it takes the "if" above the "switch", ie it never even looks at the auto-thingie
15:46:27 <Alberth> you should check that with a debugger or so,
15:46:44 <andythenorth> Alberth: pull eints ;)
15:46:58 <andythenorth> I have a new colour scheme
15:51:09 <wojteks86> I speak for myself - my eyes would pop out after w hile
15:51:42 <Alberth> I think you picked a wrong career andy, you should have become a fireman :)
15:51:49 <wojteks86> pale dark yellow would be fine
15:52:10 <andythenorth> Alberth: pull again :P
15:53:53 <andythenorth> got some problem finding site root
15:53:56 <frosch123> let me guess... black on black?
15:53:57 <andythenorth> in my static route
15:54:07 <andythenorth> Alberth: try going to some project
15:54:17 <andythenorth> there will be 404s for the static assets
15:54:56 <andythenorth> ah, found the solution
15:55:01 <Alberth> WDP_AUTO, 384, 100 <-- wojteks86 those numbers are default window size, they are not position
15:56:04 <wojteks86> I know, but I referred to another window using WDP_ other than auto and these values were set to 0 0 so I thought this may have something to do with it
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16:01:31 <andythenorth> ImportError: cannot import name get_url
16:02:36 <andythenorth> it is defined in bottle.py, so I am puzzled
16:03:53 <Alberth> there is a lenghty discussion about this in the manual, bla and bla/ are different things according to the official definition
16:04:23 <andythenorth> that would be uncontroversial
16:04:43 <andythenorth> what's puzzling is why I can't import get_url
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16:07:28 <Alberth> andythenorth: @Shawn: You should either supply it as a template argument (get_url=get_url in the call to template) <-- that comment?
16:07:45 <andythenorth> just importing to a class fails
16:07:49 <andythenorth> I don't get as far as template
16:08:32 <andythenorth> I cargo culted that
16:08:44 <andythenorth> ImportError: cannot import name get_url
16:09:02 <andythenorth> yet it's right there on l649 of bottle.py
16:09:23 <andythenorth> how long has '**kargs" been valid python :o
16:10:19 <Alberth> url = make_default_app_wrapper('get_url') <-- it's called 'url' at global level, it seems
16:10:35 <Alberth> **args? a long time, I think
16:12:45 <andythenorth> can't figure out how to expose it
16:17:43 <andythenorth> might be onto something
16:19:47 <Alberth> @route('/static/<filename:path>')
16:19:47 <Alberth> def send_static(filename):
16:19:47 <Alberth> return static_file(filename, root='static/files')
16:20:26 <andythenorth> I've solved it by importing url to main_template.tpl
16:20:35 <andythenorth> didn't know I could import directly to templates :)
16:21:36 <Alberth> my solution looks wrong, tbh
16:23:27 <Alberth> b/webtranslate/static.py <-- seems to import a bit too much? :)
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17:04:41 <andythenorth> Alberth: pull ;)
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18:16:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25037 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2013-02-23 18:15:54 UTC)
18:16:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5480]: green path signals would be shown when building them 'under' a train, and they would keep showing green until they were passed again
18:18:13 <__ln__> a grocery nearby me is selling norwegian salmon filet, and they've labeled all the packages with a label saying "does not contain horse meat"
18:20:50 <Alberth> so you've asked about mad cow disease, right?
18:20:58 <Psyk> I like horses! In sausages for example...
18:21:52 <Alberth> you need a LOT of sauce to put a horse in it!
18:22:27 <Rubidium> how can they be sure? maybe the fish were fed horses in some way
18:23:56 <frosch123> Psyk: put a big label on them "contains horse meat"
18:24:28 <__ln__> btw, the same grocery sells horse meat.
18:25:51 <frosch123> ah, so there are two big arrows just after the entry? "horse stuff left, everything else right"?
18:28:30 <__ln__> more like they're making fun of the whole issue by labeling the fish
18:29:08 <Rubidium> not "free range 'beef' left", "bio industry beef right"?
18:30:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25038 trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp (2013-02-23 18:29:55 UTC)
18:30:01 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5479]: minimise gaps feature caused removal to only happen at the signal build interval instead of the implicit interval of 1
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18:35:48 <tracerpt> i want a lasagna from findus :(
18:36:00 <tracerpt> always wanted to own a share of a racing horse :|
18:36:55 <frosch123> hmm, i think cat meat in lasagna would be quite entertaining
18:37:08 <frosch123> where can i start such business?
18:37:19 <Psyk> its said, that cat meat is a bit sweet...
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25039 /trunk/src/lang (5 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-23 18:45:28 UTC)
18:45:40 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41 <DorpsGek> english_US - 3 changes by Rubidium
18:45:42 <DorpsGek> korean - 6 changes by telk5093
18:45:43 <DorpsGek> russian - 1 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:44 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 334 changes by GunChleoc
18:45:45 <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
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19:01:36 <tracerpt> how long have u guys been working on TTD mods?
19:09:09 <andythenorth> fixing some forms
19:10:21 <andythenorth> Alberth: would be really useful to figure out how to automatically reload classes / templates ;)
19:10:31 <andythenorth> writing html + css is very slow with restart for every change :)
19:15:03 <andythenorth> I added that to main.py
19:15:04 <andythenorth> bottle.run(reloader=True, host='localhost', port=8000)
19:15:10 <andythenorth> doesn't seem to reload templates
19:15:35 <andythenorth> debug mode should do template reloading
19:16:58 <Alberth> we already do that, don't we?
19:18:06 <andythenorth> I just pushed it
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19:55:38 <andythenorth> Alberth: what changed in upload_lang?
19:55:47 <andythenorth> I made lots of styling changes there :)
19:56:13 <Alberth> removed <label for="is_existing">Language already exists in the project:</label> <input type="checkbox" name="is_existing" id="is_existing" /><br />
19:56:48 <Alberth> as it was not used :)
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20:01:51 <andythenorth> hg up --clean is bad
20:02:06 <andythenorth> oh well, I'll just rewrite all that code again :)
20:04:18 <Alberth> always do a "hg diff > my.patch" first before doing anything dangerous :)
20:05:21 <andythenorth> I love distributed vcs :P
20:07:19 <jonty-comp> aww, there's nothing in NARS in 1927 to carry livestock
20:14:51 <Superuser> #openttd - what is YOUR favourite Linux text editor? No Emacs or Vim allowed! (looking for a good *modern* text editor)
20:15:33 <__ln__> eFTE... modern, umm, well, for some values of modern.
20:15:54 <Alberth> Superuser: just try a few
20:15:59 <Superuser> and code folding (so gedit is out)
20:16:18 <Superuser> Common User Access, have you never used Emacs?
20:16:26 <Superuser> I'm just tired of emacs' 1980s BS
20:16:44 <peter1138> you need a mouse eh?
20:16:52 <Superuser> anyone know good graphical text editors? Everyone loves nano ofc (me included)
20:16:58 <jonty-comp> if i am doing proper development of anything i use sublime text 2
20:17:00 <Superuser> but I need something more advanced, with code folding etc
20:17:24 <peter1138> i use vim, vim or vim
20:17:28 <Superuser> You know I've heard amazing things about that, but the price seems a bit steep for a development tool. If it was a compiler it would be justified, but...
20:17:38 <jonty-comp> oh, i didn't pay for it :P
20:17:51 <jonty-comp> the 'evaluation' is fully featured and has no time limit
20:18:00 <jonty-comp> it just pops up when you save every ~5 times
20:18:29 <jonty-comp> oh, sublime text 3 is in beta :o
20:18:36 <Superuser> thanks __ln__, I'll check it out
20:18:51 <Superuser> looks pretty good, X11 interface so should be fast
20:24:47 <frosch123> during kde3 times i used kate
20:24:58 <frosch123> which had code folding though i never liked such a thing
20:25:28 <Superuser> Kate is a brilliant editor
20:25:33 <frosch123> at the beginning of kde4 every application including kate turned into a hitting-a-wrong-key-crashes-it-all thing
20:25:36 <Superuser> (only ever used kde4)
20:25:44 * ToBeFree loves Kate, just saying
20:25:45 <frosch123> no idea at what state kde4 is nowadays
20:25:50 <frosch123> but since then i have been using geany
20:26:01 <Superuser> But the first time I tried it was at v4.6 (first time I tried Linux seriously, too!), so I missed the KDE4 fiasco
20:26:03 <frosch123> it has no code folding at my side, but maybe i disabled it :p
20:26:24 <Superuser> the best DE after Unity, easily
20:26:53 <Superuser> Unity's HUD is a killer app for me, plus I like the idea of 1 thing on the screen at a time
20:27:02 <Superuser> for some reason I can't use GNOME Shell to save my life, lol
20:27:14 <jonty-comp> i enjoyed gnome shell on my old tablet PC
20:27:26 <jonty-comp> unity makes baby jesus cry
20:27:39 <Superuser> only ever used it on the desktop
20:27:42 <jonty-comp> that said, i plan on installing ubuntu on my tablet when they eventually make it work properly
20:27:44 <Superuser> what do you use jonty-comp
20:27:56 <jonty-comp> on my desktop? windows :P
20:28:19 <jonty-comp> i'm allowed to though, i run 15 debian servers
20:28:31 <Superuser> needs moar desktop linux
20:28:32 <jonty-comp> and an office of windows/mac workstations
20:28:41 <Superuser> also Debian sucks, so out of date
20:28:47 <jonty-comp> we used to have one desktop linux pc that was a crappy old tower that we had nothing else to do with
20:28:51 <jonty-comp> but nobody other than me used it
20:29:00 <jonty-comp> so i threw it out and put two old powermacs there instead
20:29:05 <jonty-comp> at least people can use photoshop on them
20:29:29 <jonty-comp> i will use linux on desktop when someone invents a DE that doesn't make me want to kill baby gerbils
20:30:04 <jonty-comp> next ubuntu on my desktop will probably be xfcebunto
20:30:07 <andythenorth> powermacs are so dead :)
20:30:09 <Superuser> I actually removed the Windows partition for good 2 days ago
20:30:16 <Superuser> never been happier :)
20:30:32 <jonty-comp> andythenorth: but they look like Mac Pros, so they impress people that come in the office
20:30:39 <jonty-comp> so long as they don't actually *use* them
20:30:54 <jonty-comp> then they'll realise that they're huge, loud, power-hogging piles of shite
20:31:30 <Superuser> lol your workplace sounds awesome
20:31:44 <jonty-comp> we have two brand-new iMacs too, they're somewhat nicer
20:32:26 <jonty-comp> actually, i haven't used E17 for a long time, i should try that out again
20:34:25 <Superuser> never used it since
20:34:30 <Alberth> opengl for desktops is insane
20:34:31 <Superuser> that was 1.5 years ago
20:34:44 <Superuser> probably not much better now, even though it's out of alpha
20:35:58 <peter1138> it works but doesn't fit in with anything
20:36:08 <Superuser> hey who was the guy who recommended eFTE?
20:36:30 <Superuser> this thing doesn't support Unicode
20:36:45 <__ln__> aren't you in england?
20:36:55 <Superuser> does that mean I'm British?
20:36:57 <__ln__> besides, i said: 22:15 < __ln__> eFTE... modern, umm, well, for some values of modern.
20:37:19 <Superuser> 45% of London classified itself as White British
20:37:24 <jonty-comp> peter1138: for political correctness you must now use €
20:37:25 <Superuser> Which is why I'm leaving
20:37:38 <Superuser> not living in London though
20:37:44 <peter1138> why is that disgusting?
20:37:46 <Superuser> that figure is from the 2012 census btw
20:37:51 <__ln__> they can't classify themselves as black british if they're white, can they?
20:37:59 <Superuser> because the majority of them don't fit in, they are black or muslim
20:38:11 <Superuser> no, it's illegal to lie on it
20:38:11 <jonty-comp> actually, i should install ubuntu on this desktop
20:38:17 <jonty-comp> it would be most useful
20:38:24 <__ln__> let me correct myself: *african american british
20:38:28 <jonty-comp> but do I do it in virtualbox or as a partition?
20:38:43 <peter1138> don't install ubuntu
20:38:53 <Superuser> Americans of course don't understand the issue of the Ageing of Europe, they've always been in a multicultural country (where multiculturalism doesn't work)
20:39:33 <__ln__> Superuser: who needs Unicode, 8-bit charsets ought to be enough for anyone.
20:39:54 <Superuser> people who use non-Latin characters in their folder names, for one
20:40:11 <__ln__> non-Latin doesn't necessarily imply Unicode.
20:40:42 <__ln__> but I agree, the lack of Unicode support is eFTE's greatest disadvantage.
20:41:30 <Rubidium> Superuser: I reckon you use non Latin characters in folder names as well
20:41:43 <Rubidium> starting with the "u"
20:43:00 <__ln__> i don't think eFTE has a problem with non-ASCII per se, it just doesn't handle UTF-8.
20:43:46 <frosch123> can it handle "§" ?
20:43:58 <frosch123> or does it crash like the average dos application?
20:45:28 <__ln__> crashing dos apps with § is news to me
20:46:03 <frosch123> it's because in the dos codepage § was a character < 32
20:46:10 <frosch123> i.e. technically not ascii, but a control char
20:46:28 <frosch123> most applications did not expect that there are keyboards which allow entering such things
20:46:52 <Alberth> your keyboard does not allow \n ? :)
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21:46:35 <glx> <jonty-comp> but do I do it in virtualbox or as a partition? <-- latest ubuntu is dead slow in virtual box
21:51:54 <jonty-comp> good job i started installing it on a partition then
21:52:04 <jonty-comp> i can load the physical device up in virtualbox if i want to anyway
21:52:07 <jonty-comp> unless they broke that
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22:22:29 <jonty-comp> i have to admit, ubuntu + unity has gotten a lot better since the last time i used it
22:22:38 <jonty-comp> i still hate the default window decorations though
22:22:51 <jonty-comp> at least the whole UI isn't overpoweringly purple any more
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22:50:32 <jonty-comp> so many package updates
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continue to next day ⏵
