IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-22
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00:00:26 <Bad_Brett> anyways, things have gotten really exciting since NML was introduced
00:00:48 <Bad_Brett> now there are endless possibilities even for n00bs like me :)
00:01:25 <jonty-comp> pfft, i used to use grfmaker
00:01:33 <jonty-comp> pity that got abandoned
00:05:33 <Bad_Brett> i never understood it
00:13:37 <DaveW2> i've made a small error.
00:14:23 <Supercheese> explain the problem, perhaps someone can
00:14:40 <DaveW2> need a dev i think. i've uploaded something to bananas in error.
00:15:07 <DaveW2> wanted to upload a couple of files that mph had basically made open source ... bored of getting requests about each grf.
00:15:43 <DaveW2> anyway, whether i should have done that or not... i've uploaded the wrong file with the wrong description
00:18:13 <DaveW2> i think i've corrected it now - so that one is right, but now i can't upload the second.
00:20:30 <DaveW2> actually i've decided i only want to upload that one... so it doesn't matter. forget i said anything haha
00:37:49 <Bad_Brett> man i'm beginning to feel a bit like frankenstein
00:38:19 <Bad_Brett> i scream "it's aliiiiive" every time i get things working
00:47:48 <Rhamphoryncus_> Bad_Brett: I thought every programmer did that..
00:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i probably did that more than a few times
01:24:04 <Bad_Brett> have there been any discussions lately about adding nml support for stations?
01:54:12 <Supercheese> Depends on how you qualify "recently"
01:54:19 <Supercheese> In any event, m4nfo supports stations
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07:36:52 <Supercheese> More drama! I've even joined in myself
07:36:55 <Supercheese> what is the world coming to?
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08:33:38 <andythenorth> you have a FIRS checkout?
08:34:19 <andythenorth> you use precompiled nmlc, or you have python and such?
08:34:39 <andythenorth> puts a few hurdles in
08:35:02 <andythenorth> I don't know how you make it possible to write code on windows :)
08:35:05 <Supercheese> Tortoisehg can spit out patches eh
08:35:06 <andythenorth> I know it can be done
08:35:19 <andythenorth> you have hg already?
08:35:45 <andythenorth> just get a checkout
08:35:46 <Supercheese> Devzone uses it a lot (exclusively?)
08:36:54 <Supercheese> The last time I used a non-Windows operating system was... hmm, probably Macintosh II?
08:37:23 <__ln__> i hear engineer dialect
08:38:02 <andythenorth> so checkout, change, post a diff
08:38:09 <andythenorth> or post the modified file as an attachment
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08:38:16 <andythenorth> you won't be able to build though :P
08:38:40 <Supercheese> although I patched OGFX+ airports without building it, and the patch was accepted
08:38:48 <Supercheese> so there's precedence :)
08:39:07 <Supercheese> well, wasn't a patch per se
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08:46:37 <peter1138> i reckon the people wanting their own content repo wouldn't actually be able to host it anyway
08:47:00 <peter1138> but then again, i don't see people wanting their own content repo
08:47:09 <peter1138> i only see people saying other people want their own content repo
08:47:35 <Supercheese> People generally want much more than they do
08:48:03 <peter1138> it'd be a massive amount of work to support multiple content repos in ottd
08:49:12 <peter1138> the content server isn't http
08:49:26 <peter1138> it's not like an apt repo
08:49:41 <peter1138> so you couldn't just run it on a standard web host
08:50:15 <Supercheese> programming languages are weird
08:51:48 <Supercheese> blarg, no obvious "create patch" for Tortoisehg
08:55:39 <Supercheese> to the documentation
08:59:26 <Supercheese> what, it expects me to use command line stuff?
08:59:41 <Supercheese> why bother providing a GUI then?
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09:06:42 <peter1138> gui is useful for browsing a repo
09:07:47 <Supercheese> It's useful, but I guess hg doesn't like patches?
09:08:06 <Supercheese> No "Create patch" button like SVN
09:08:23 * Supercheese likes one-click buttons that do what you want
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09:16:52 <peter1138> Supercheese, svn doesn't have a ui
09:17:02 <peter1138> tortoise is not svn
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09:36:34 <planetmaker> some say 'bye all', some say 'valete omnes' :D
10:33:14 <peter1138> or something like that
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11:56:58 <peter1138> hmm, 43 windows in irssi
11:57:43 <jonty-comp> huh, why did it do that
11:57:51 <jonty-comp> oh i know why, my phone has it set as an autosendcmd
11:58:00 <jonty-comp> but it's also in my .bashrc :p
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12:57:29 <planetmaker> oh... trolling going on in the bananas thread (again)?
12:58:14 <andythenorth> I _think_ it's genuine not trolling
13:05:28 <peter1138> i think it's genuine but with a hint of sarcasm
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13:08:43 <V453000> when I am connecting to a server and I am missing a grf from grfcrawler, will openttd indicate that the grf is available on grfcrawler?
13:09:04 <V453000> or is it just "look that site exists" feature?
13:11:22 <planetmaker> just test it ;-) (or grfcrawler)
13:11:34 <planetmaker> grfcrawler will tell which grfs it knows, when given a list of grfIDs
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13:46:13 <V453000> cute, but bananas is bananas :)
13:50:25 <SN4T14> I'm having a slight problem with my OpenTTD server, I've opened 3979 UDP and TCP through iptables, but when I connect to my server it times out...
13:57:21 <SN4T14> Nevermind, figured it out
13:57:37 <jonty-comp> clearly user error
13:59:22 <Maedhros> TrueBrain: is there any way i can recover my old bugs.openttd.org account so i can merge it into a new shiny account?
14:00:12 <Maedhros> eh, the password on the old old account, that is
14:02:25 <planetmaker> oi, that sounds like fun. I remember that question previously being answered along the lines of 'merge window is over'
14:05:06 <Maedhros> ah, that's a shame. apparently i can't create a new account with this username cause it already exists in the merge database
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14:12:20 <andythenorth> the conclusion is that people who can't or won't use bananas
14:12:21 <michi_cc> 'd guss the merge window purely depends on how much you beg TB :)=
14:12:22 <andythenorth> shouldn't use bananas
14:13:25 <andythenorth> that was a worthwhile forum post
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14:21:15 <planetmaker> michi_cc, I guess that, too :-)
14:22:13 <V453000> andythenorth: sac even said that they realized bananas isnt as bad as they thought it was, while she also basically said that the only reason they dont put stuff there is for their stupid reasons
14:23:08 <andythenorth> I was referring to someone else that I don't get on with, but yeah
14:23:15 <andythenorth> does forums have an ignore?
14:23:49 <V453000> I know, but still; the only problem of this whole thing is a few stubborn idiots
14:24:03 <V453000> "cant or wont accept bananas" my ass
14:24:40 <andythenorth> I just thought it was a particularly meaningless point
14:24:49 <andythenorth> "Those who don't want to use bananas should not use bananas"
14:24:52 <andythenorth> yeah, uh, thanks
14:25:05 <planetmaker> forum has an ignore. But it's about useless
14:25:20 <andythenorth> some forums have 'foe'
14:25:25 <V453000> it is meaningless as 90% of his posts, not surprising
14:25:34 <planetmaker> somewhere in your user settings, andythenorth . Called 'foe'
14:26:02 <planetmaker> In the forums I have neither friends nor foes ;-)
14:26:04 <andythenorth> my foes list just increased :)
14:26:11 <andythenorth> it was previously 0
14:26:35 <andythenorth> now the post is ignored
14:26:50 <andythenorth> what it should really do is show the post, but hide the 'reply' and 'quote' buttons :P
14:27:21 <planetmaker> yes. It cuts down threads leading to out-of-context postings
14:27:44 <andythenorth> what I want it to do is prevent me getting into pointless flame wars with dickheads
14:27:52 <andythenorth> I'll have to prevent myself :P
14:28:06 <andythenorth> V453000 where are your ship sprites then?
14:29:05 <V453000> I have like one templated
14:29:16 <V453000> kind of taking a break atm
14:29:48 <andythenorth> I have been having a break too
14:29:57 <V453000> the tracks took too much initiative :P need to recharge
14:30:21 <V453000> ha, I had such break last game, resulted in me being as drunk as never before ... so now having a break from booze as well
14:34:40 <planetmaker> but you didn't get drunk over / because of the game? :D
14:36:19 <V453000> substituting games for weeks, check
14:37:09 <V453000> just the offsets really
14:37:50 <andythenorth> and you'll have crashes
14:38:28 <V453000> which will be funny because the ship segments (wagons) will start rotating during the crash
14:42:50 <V453000> I could send you a template and you could draw the ship andy? :P
14:54:16 <andythenorth> V453000 good luck with that :)
14:54:25 <andythenorth> so who speaks french?
14:58:08 <V453000> oh, also my minion doing the CHIPS extension hasnt appeared in at least a month
14:59:20 <V453000> didnt expect that either
14:59:58 <andythenorth> who speaks croatian?
15:00:17 <V453000> in fact I was even in a tram today and I thought the old woman I left to take my seat, and she didnt instantly ask me for permission do draw sprites for me - how unexpectable :(
15:00:55 <V453000> nobody draws sprites, weird world today
15:01:11 <andythenorth> nmlc warning: "lang/czech.lng", line 63: String commands don't match with english.lng
15:03:56 <V453000> why is in english on line 63 STR_CARGO_UNIT_FRUITS while czech has on 63 STR_EXTRA_GRAIN_MILL ??
15:04:51 <V453000> just multiple lines somewhere I guess
15:05:06 <V453000> which STR_ is broken then?
15:05:12 <V453000> 63 from czech or english?
15:06:51 <V453000> also I think cargoes should just have colours or icons, no translations needed
15:07:58 <V453000> produces <image of pile of fecal matter>, accepts <image of pile of fecal matter> ... 5 <piles> > 3 <piles>, done
15:08:29 <V453000> 30 battery / tractor == smilie
15:10:20 <V453000> 120 == 2 smilies or happier smilie
15:10:32 <V453000> get rid of the strings andy :P
15:12:22 <planetmaker> V453000, just update the whole language file and make the string lines match (again) :D
15:14:19 <planetmaker> I usually indeed try to match the line numbers - or at least the order. And using alberth's great language check tool on it... makes for quick check what needs changing
15:16:32 <planetmaker> hm... some more strings need adjustment in German...
15:18:45 <planetmaker> anyway, laters... first getting food from store :D
15:20:12 <V453000> people should be able to play the game with english anyway
15:20:27 <V453000> at least they will learn basic words
15:30:10 <peter1138> so the llama has been reawakened :p
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16:33:37 <Bad_Brett> FIRS needs Llama farms!
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16:40:24 <Maedhros> does anyone know where i can find the code responsible for drawing the mouse cursor?
16:42:23 <andythenorth> Bad_Brett: add on
16:42:42 <Rubidium> hmm, all those returnees lately
16:42:54 <Maedhros> i'm having trouble with the cursor being in the wrong place in OS X, and as far as i can tell it's being drawn by OpenTTD *and* Cocoa, but not in the same place
16:42:54 <planetmaker> Maedhros, it's OS-specifc
16:43:05 <goodger> I just understood the etymology of the -ee suffix
16:43:12 <andythenorth> Maedhros: I have the same issue
16:43:18 <andythenorth> haven't raised a FS :(
16:43:38 <planetmaker> that issue is... annoying ... and tricky
16:43:45 <andythenorth> arose recently, assuming it's 10.7.x specific
16:43:49 <Maedhros> andythenorth: does it jump back to the right place again when you click somewhere?
16:43:59 * planetmaker didn't update to 10.7 really. Tested and rejected here ;-)
16:44:08 <andythenorth> I have to swich away frm openttd to fix
16:44:19 <planetmaker> Maedhros, it's probably the offset of the window to the upper right corner of the screen?
16:44:37 <Rubidium> planetmaker: shouldn't you be on 10.8 already?
16:44:51 <planetmaker> should maybe... but I'm not
16:44:56 <Maedhros> planetmaker: i think you're right, although as far as i can tell it's the offset to the bottom right corner instead
16:45:32 <planetmaker> Maedhros, does it depend on from where you move the mouse into the viewport?
16:45:39 <andythenorth> planetmaker: that totally makes sense, the issue only noticeably occurs when the window is smaller than screen-size
16:45:46 <andythenorth> usually I run ottd maximised
16:46:06 <planetmaker> andythenorth, that's different display drivers in cocoa then... kind of...
16:46:33 <planetmaker> Maedhros, the OSX-specific one is in os/macosx/cocoa*
16:47:00 <Maedhros> planetmaker: it doesn't matter from which side of the window you move into the viewport
16:49:25 <planetmaker> Maedhros, sorry, it's in src/video/cocoa/cocoa_v*
16:49:50 <planetmaker> setTrackingRect and friends might be of interest there
16:50:30 <planetmaker> or the whole of the OTTD_CocoaView class
16:51:06 <Maedhros> heh. it doesn't help that i'm basically stumbling in the dark when it comes to cocoa :)
16:52:31 <planetmaker> didn't help me either
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16:59:34 <Maedhros> huh. well, i think i know where the problem is: in WindowQuartzSubdriver::GetMouseLocation the mouse location appears to be relative to the screen, not the window
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17:04:35 <Maedhros> michi_cc: that looks fairly related :) i'll take a look when i get back
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17:48:49 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r25035 trunk/src/lang/english.txt (2013-02-22 17:48:44 UTC)
17:48:50 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Improve english. (Joel A)
17:49:21 <Maedhros> michi_cc: the patch in FS#4392 fixes this problem... but it makes the mouse disappear when the window is maximised and you have to click twice before the button press is registered
17:49:35 <Maedhros> pretty much what planetmaker said in the comments, sadly
17:55:08 <andythenorth> so I am just going to remove the lines in FIRS translations that are breaking
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18:09:07 <supermop> someone? should make a realistic/generic monorail set
18:09:26 <supermop> that ? was supposed to be a TM symbol
18:09:57 <supermop> with slow alweg style monorails starting from the 60s ish
18:10:17 <supermop> generically based on Alweg and hitachi designs
18:10:44 <supermop> by someone of course i mean me, but i'll never get around to it
18:11:12 <supermop> i think i expressed this idea to Eddi|zuHause like 3-4 years ago on irc
18:11:26 <supermop> and clearly have done nothing since then
18:15:09 <supermop> i recall wasting your time late one night maybe in 2010 ruminating about my ideas for a 'real
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18:15:42 <supermop> real in the sense that monorails would be cheap-ish slow urban rapid transit
18:15:45 <jonty-comp> only if it includes the disneyland monorail
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18:25:13 <supermop> gameplay wish it would be stupid to do this, but alweg and hitachi buit trains should be incompatible as the train floor height is much different
18:25:47 <supermop> same with disneyland vs. standard alweg/disney world
18:26:57 <supermop> willing to bet no one wants 3 monorailtypes taking up slots in game though
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18:45:26 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25036 /trunk/src/lang (4 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-22 18:45:16 UTC)
18:45:28 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:29 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 29 changes by Asakha
18:45:30 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 198 changes by GunChleoc
18:45:31 <DorpsGek> swedish - 2 changes by Joel_A
18:45:32 <DorpsGek> thai - 1 changes by angelix
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19:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> saliva yourself...
19:15:06 <Eddi|zuHause> but better not tell us
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19:43:35 <Supercheese> unresolved external symbol
19:49:06 <Alberth> Wanna swap with "RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration" ? :)
19:49:53 <Supercheese> Maybe I should have checked that the unpatched OTTD compiled first
19:50:38 <Alberth> nah, that would be boring :)
19:51:15 <Supercheese> and update the correct files to the correct revision
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20:10:30 <TrueBrain> for you of course I make an exception Maedhros
20:10:37 <TrueBrain> let me check how your account status is atm
20:10:39 <oskari89> About Logic Engine 0.9
20:11:16 <oskari89> If i set speed to 12000 km/h, speed will be 8300 km/h... Odd
20:11:50 <tracerpt> i have an idea for u coding guys :p
20:12:07 <V453000> well that is strange; but why would you actually do that? :D
20:12:46 <oskari89> Because i want 20000 km/h train, of course!
20:12:58 <TrueBrain> Maedhros: you had a bugtracker and a wiki account, right?
20:13:04 <V453000> well yeah but for what :D
20:13:13 <oskari89> For quick transportation
20:13:21 <tracerpt> wouldnt it be great if there was a way to set an engine to a max speed? Like if I buy a faster engine but want it to run just 20km/h under it's max speed
20:13:33 <Supercheese> Go under orders -> timetable
20:13:39 <Supercheese> you can set how fast it should run
20:13:50 <tracerpt> never used timetables
20:13:55 <Supercheese> yeah, "travel to the next destination with speed at most XX"
20:14:04 <V453000> I think that is quite stupid oskari89 but I will see why it does such unexpected behaviour
20:14:07 <Supercheese> you can even tell it to run at different speeds along different sections
20:14:12 <Supercheese> sections/destinations
20:14:19 <tracerpt> tried to set a jet to fly just once a month and also failed miserably
20:14:36 <oskari89> Same behaviour as i set 50000
20:14:41 <tracerpt> maybe i'm just too dumb :)
20:14:46 <V453000> note that the train isnt for transportation, it is for logic operations
20:15:07 <tracerpt> gonna take a look at it Supercheese
20:15:15 <V453000> for which around 2000 is functional maximum in 99% cases
20:15:16 <oskari89> Yes, but i've used it for transportation in my one scenario
20:15:17 <Supercheese> Yeah, Orders -> Timetable -> Change Speed Limit
20:15:32 <Supercheese> Sort of a hidden feature
20:15:32 <tracerpt> thanks, been looking for a mod for that and it was under my nose all that time
20:15:42 <Supercheese> could use some better documentation
20:16:13 <tracerpt> so in order to get it to run at diferent speeds
20:16:14 <Supercheese> I'll probably edit the wiki later
20:16:28 <tracerpt> ill need to setup some checkpoints
20:16:56 <Supercheese> Oh yeah, the wiki is outdated
20:17:59 <oskari89> Seems that the top speed is 8300 km/h and cannot go higher than that in that 0.9 version
20:18:11 <oskari89> Even if you set it higher
20:20:44 <tracerpt> cant figure out why make something that runs that fast
20:21:11 <tracerpt> i tried the vacuum tube and found the speed ridiculous
20:21:18 <oskari89> I should make a video from my game which has those 30000 km/h maglevs
20:21:32 <Supercheese> might as well teleport at those speeds
20:21:40 <Supercheese> Scotty, beam me up
20:22:10 <Supercheese> Yeah, I've worked on them
20:22:14 <Supercheese> I've worked on a lot of things
20:22:19 <Supercheese> but I only finish some :P
20:22:48 <TrueBrain> right; all done and set for Maedhros .. now how to confirm his identity .. do we trust him? Hmmmmmm
20:24:34 <jonty-comp> i think it's a very suspicious nick
20:24:51 <jonty-comp> if you rearrange the letters...and add a few...and remove a few
20:25:27 <TrueBrain> add a few, haha, nice :D
20:26:17 <tracerpt> worked perfect :) thx again super
20:28:39 <tracerpt> now i have to sort out for them to speed up again xD
20:28:50 <Supercheese> remove speed limit somewhere
20:29:02 <Supercheese> but yeah, nifty feature
20:29:07 <Supercheese> added, oh, not too long ago
20:29:44 <tracerpt> ive got an order to go "non stop thru CP1" max speed 177
20:29:58 <tracerpt> then from CP1 to next station no speed limit
20:30:07 <tracerpt> dumbfk kept going at 177
20:30:17 <tracerpt> damn those asian trains
20:30:54 <Supercheese> r23947, just about a year ago
20:31:45 <tracerpt> i'm guessing almost no one uses them
20:31:57 <tracerpt> them as in the speed limit
20:32:21 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: Commit by michi_cc :: r23947 /trunk/src (15 files in 6 dirs) (2012-02-14 17:04:06 UTC)
20:32:22 <DorpsGek> Supercheese: -Feature: Timetabled maximum travel speeds for non-flying vehicles.
20:33:27 <Supercheese> As mentioned, they aren't the most well-documented feature
20:33:44 <Supercheese> I'll add stuff to the relevant wiki pages later today
20:34:56 <tracerpt> i was setting the speeds at the wrong places
20:35:43 <tracerpt> still needed to add the max speed after the limit zone ends
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20:38:45 <Superuser> this channel sure is dead today
20:39:17 <tracerpt> i wouldnt know about that
20:40:48 <Belugas> we are ghosts on a machine
20:40:56 <Belugas> we are ghosts on a machine and we don't even know
20:41:11 <frosch123> yeah, poor old ghosts
20:41:19 <Belugas> pfff... old yourself!
20:41:24 <frosch123> all the young guys want to be zombies
20:41:58 <Belugas> zombines.. no class...
20:42:16 <Belugas> if at least they wanted to be vampires... but ho no... so passé!
20:42:40 <Belugas> damned you Twilight! You killed teh vampires :S
20:42:56 <Belugas> mhh... so a propos...
20:43:09 <Belugas> Esben and the Witch - Skeleton Swoon
20:43:36 <frosch123> Jackie Chan - Rob B Hood
20:44:46 <oskari89> There's a 23 tile length train here...
20:45:04 <Belugas> there's a skeleton choking ona crust of bread!
20:45:32 <Alberth> oskari89: I hope you have added some foundations to your desktop
20:45:36 <oskari89> Max speed is 30175 kph :P
20:45:51 <oskari89> Kind of nice acceleration
20:46:11 <Alberth> utterly useless in a game :)
20:46:13 <oskari89> There is 3 passenger coaches
20:46:29 <oskari89> And the rest of train is those logic engines
20:46:52 <Belugas> Jackie Chan... yeh, i thnk i've heard about
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20:47:19 <Supercheese> oskari89, you're murdering the poor passengers with those g-forces
20:47:32 <oskari89> Still, it's not making much profit
20:47:41 <Supercheese> all the customers are DEAD
20:47:58 <tracerpt> <--- was doing it wrong
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21:40:04 * LordAro hates wireless. Has he mentioned that yet?
21:41:07 <Alberth> I think he may have said something in that direction
21:43:00 <frosch123> yeah, never use satellites
21:43:18 <Alberth> hmm, what's the mimetype of simple text ?
21:43:34 <Alberth> utf-8 text to be precise
21:44:12 <frosch123> i don't think there are mimetypes for encoding
21:44:22 <frosch123> try some bom in the file
21:45:01 <Alberth> it's a http connection, so I can state a charset ;)
21:47:06 * LordAro plays some Kerbal Space Program while waiting for pages to load
21:47:45 <andythenorth> I have been resisting KSP
21:48:51 <LordAro> i only started playing a couple of days ago
21:48:51 <LordAro> even the limited demo is insanely fun :)
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22:06:34 <heffer> who says wireless sucks? if it does you're doing it wrong
22:18:15 <frosch123> can you eat the other one?
22:18:26 <frosch123> as in "you only live twice"?
22:19:26 <LordAro> Markk: rendezvous in kerbal space program
22:19:49 <LordAro> frosch123: almost :) if i had the full verion, i could dock with the other
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22:32:32 <Alberth> andythenorth: I have thrown out most of the language overview page (the page you get when you click at a language from a project).
22:32:32 <Alberth> It's a bit minimalistic now, perhaps a bit too much (or 'too less' :) ) Ideas are welcome, but not now :)
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23:13:34 <andythenorth> is it harsh that I'm just deleting broken strings in translations?
23:13:55 <Supercheese> "deleting" when the revision history is saved isn't really "deleting"
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23:37:30 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
23:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> don't put thoughts like that into andy's head :p
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continue to next day ⏵
