IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-20
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01:31:07 *** planetmaker changes topic to "1.2.3, 1.3.0-RC1 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | #openttd.dev for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
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08:48:34 <andythenorth> Pikka got industries yet? o_O
08:59:10 <Pikka> I suppose I need industries to test my wagons though
09:00:13 <andythenorth> I want to see the style :)
09:00:20 <andythenorth> "so you must do it"
09:00:31 <andythenorth> it's nice to have encouragement eh?
09:01:18 <Pikka> the graphic style or the production style? :)
09:13:06 <planetmaker> quickly bored :D Moin
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09:50:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Grütze (i don't think i spelled that right :p)
10:33:17 <Pikka> I should render these industries, right?
10:36:13 <peter1138> and fix ottd's movement code while you're at it
10:36:51 <peter1138> some guy wrote that
10:37:30 <Eddi|zuHause> errr... did that guy really just dig a 9 year old topic? :p
10:38:18 <Pikka> I said it was not strictly "correct"
10:38:23 <Pikka> I didn't say it needed fixing :)
10:38:49 <Pikka> and the problems with rendering only apply to trains and rvs
10:39:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but if you have animated trains or rvs on your industries?
10:41:12 <peter1138> draw it with perspective
10:41:38 <Eddi|zuHause> and with fog of war :)
10:53:34 <jonty-comp> make the sprites render at runtime
10:53:45 <jonty-comp> then newgrfs are just a bunch of 3ds files
10:54:01 <peter1138> direct3d all the way
10:57:35 <jonty-comp> how platform-specific
11:14:47 <Pikka> perhaps I should start with ground tiles
11:33:27 *** Pokka is now known as Pikka
11:36:25 <andythenorth> Pikka: render industries :p
11:36:29 <andythenorth> rendering is for ships :P
11:36:40 <andythenorth> but I guess rendering means you get EZ zupport
11:36:47 <andythenorth> and map rotation zupport
11:36:54 <peter1138> that has EZ support
11:51:37 <Pikka> is it possible to have too much worcestershire sauce en pie?
11:58:00 <andythenorth> if there is more sauce than other content
11:58:02 <andythenorth> you have too much
12:12:07 <planetmaker> hm, nice. Debian has even dropbox in its repo
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14:11:02 <goodger> planetmaker: it's only the nautilus extension for dropbox iirc
14:23:07 <planetmaker> goodger, it's good enough so that I have my dropbox folder now here
14:23:35 <planetmaker> synced with what is in it on my other machines
14:24:30 <planetmaker> complained once that dropbox is started from an "unusual location", but so what :D
14:27:19 <Eddi|zuHause> it's always unusual for the first time :p
14:28:05 <Eddi|zuHause> could use an option to open the dropbox folder in dolphin, though
14:31:04 <jonty-comp> watching people at my uni do a harlem shake over a cctv camera
14:31:07 <jonty-comp> it's a bit surreal
14:33:58 <Pikka> I didn't even know what this is
14:34:16 <Pikka> I find it amusing that the world is imitating drongos from caboolture though
14:34:41 <jonty-comp> i don't really see the point of the whole thing
14:34:53 <jonty-comp> apparently students just like any excuse to dress up in stupid outfits
14:37:39 <peter1138> like dropbox but self-hosted (or rather, git-hosted)
14:37:57 <jonty-comp> i want something like sparkleshare but to work off my home directories at work
14:38:09 <jonty-comp> so anyone can log in like they would to ssh and get dropbox-style sync
14:38:22 <jonty-comp> but last time i checked sparkleshare was too much of a pain in the ass to do that
14:43:16 <peter1138> they make it a bit complex
14:43:29 <peter1138> with the magic script to set up a server
14:43:38 <peter1138> i just used git init --bare myself
15:10:13 <planetmaker> that works for me. But tell that and explain to the average joe
15:10:36 <planetmaker> it needs something which is like one click install and ready to go
15:10:46 <planetmaker> on any system they might use, mostly windoze
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15:22:08 <peter1138> is chillcore suggesting speeding up the game by ... hiding vehicle viewports?
15:28:19 <jonty-comp> my SSL enforcer sent me to secure.openttd.org, but the CSS is on media.openttd.org, so chrome blocks it :(
15:30:51 <peter1138> or use a version which doesn't incorrectly list openttd
15:31:10 <jonty-comp> well it auto-detects
15:31:30 <jonty-comp> when you visit a http site it looks to see if it gets the same reply from https and if it does, it sends you there
15:31:39 <jonty-comp> i can however tell it to ignore this
15:31:44 <jonty-comp> seeing as it hardly matters anyway
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15:34:04 <jonty-comp> so if you made the CSS/image links protocol-relative then it would solve the problem :p
15:59:40 <planetmaker> jonty-comp, it's known to be broken. maybe there's a rule update for that. But... it's stupid and not OpenTTD's fault as that plugin rewrites the URL, not OpenTTD. Not much which can be done about
16:00:31 <jonty-comp> well it's only broken because of chrome blocking the insecure content
16:00:57 <jonty-comp> but i suppose it beats you buying more security certificates :P
16:02:22 <Rubidium> jonty-comp: the main problem is that media.openttd.org isn't a relative path from www.openttd.org, server.openttd.org, bugs.openttd.org, ...
16:02:58 <jonty-comp> i believe i have the same issue on radio.warwick.ac.uk, since we have a media subdomain
16:03:56 <jonty-comp> i could update the files to reference "//media.radio.warwick.ac.uk" and it would use whatever protocol the rest of the page is, but i don't have an SSL certificate for it
16:04:36 <jonty-comp> well, it would if i had the certificate
16:11:56 <Rubidium> jonty-comp: does it work better now?
16:12:25 <jonty-comp> although it blocks the OVH banner, i don't know if they do SSL too
16:12:35 <jonty-comp> apparently they do
16:13:40 <Rubidium> I rather not touch that snippet of code ;)
16:13:59 <Rubidium> if they complain it doesn't work, then the code they provided doesn't work
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16:16:13 <Rubidium> it's quite pointless to go to the main site with ssl
16:16:22 <Rubidium> it only wastes CPU, bandwidth and such
16:17:07 <jonty-comp> i usually disable the ssl enforcer on sites like openttd.org
16:17:24 <jonty-comp> there are a surprising number of big sites that don't use SSL for lots of user-input though
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18:05:09 * frosch123 enjoys posting suggestions in the suggestion forum :)
18:28:01 <peter1138> composite to an opengl surface
18:28:15 <peter1138> when render the final stuff with opengl
18:28:21 <peter1138> therefore, opengl support! ftw!
18:28:50 <peter1138> but yeah, memory usage...
18:30:34 <frosch123> who cares about memory usage since 32bpp?
18:30:54 <jonty-comp> that one person who insists on keeping his windows 2000 computer
18:33:15 <frosch123> i guess even w2k has no issue supporting multiple small viewports
18:33:39 <frosch123> but yes, if spawn 100 extra viewports you run into trouble :p
18:34:17 <frosch123> what do window manager do if you open 100 windows?
18:34:23 <frosch123> do they just run out of memory?
18:34:34 <frosch123> someone wants to try that? :p
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18:34:49 <peter1138> i had a bug on one system where pressing f1 in gnome-terminal would open the help
18:34:53 <peter1138> and then open the help
18:34:55 <peter1138> and then open the help
18:34:57 <peter1138> and then open the help
18:34:58 <peter1138> and then open the help
18:35:00 <peter1138> and then open the help
18:35:25 <peter1138> usually got to about 80 windows before i could switch to a text mode and kill it off
18:35:25 <jonty-comp> years ago i wrote a batch file to open TTDPatch
18:35:30 <jonty-comp> and for some reason i made it loop
18:35:35 <jonty-comp> and it opened 150 TTDPatches
18:35:36 <peter1138> and then the wm would usually need to be restarted too
18:35:40 <jonty-comp> before my computer bluescreened
18:36:02 <peter1138> gotta love windows' solution
18:45:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25033 /trunk/src/lang (6 files) (2013-02-20 18:45:45 UTC)
18:45:58 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:59 <DorpsGek> belarusian - 4 changes by KorneySan
18:46:00 <DorpsGek> bulgarian - 8 changes by ivanarj
18:46:01 <DorpsGek> catalan - 9 changes by arnau
18:46:02 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 11 changes by cuthbert
18:46:03 <DorpsGek> polish - 2 changes by wojteks86
18:46:04 <DorpsGek> tamil - 32 changes by aswn
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19:13:56 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: flherne was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 22 hours, 37 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <FLHerne> andythenorth: Different settings, and competetiveness - normally I try to use every vehicle at least once :D
19:16:14 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: alberth was last seen in #openttd 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Alberth> ice-skating ships :)
19:16:29 <andythenorth> where are people I need to talk to? :)
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19:29:05 <DorpsGek> oskari89: DanMacK was last seen in #openttd 3 days, 3 hours, 36 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <DanMacK> Hey all
19:29:25 <Supercheese> Wwwwow, was that an 8.5-year thread necromance?!
19:32:06 <oskari89> What was the 32-bit base set, was it available from BaNaNaS?
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19:36:03 <Rubidium> have you tried entering 32 in the search terms?
19:36:29 <andythenorth> in scenario editor, does industry construction try all layouts?
19:36:39 <andythenorth> I have a FIRS bug report that suggests it might not
19:37:07 <oskari89> Rubidium: Only 8/32bpp Trains 2CC available
19:37:21 <Rubidium> then your openttd is too old
19:37:53 <Rubidium> or you selected the only content from the newgrf window
19:38:19 <oskari89> Oh, thanks, found :)
19:39:11 <oskari89> Seems to be the largest file from BaNaNas yet
19:39:29 <Rubidium> but what else did you expect?
19:39:58 <oskari89> Nothing, just thought that it might be smaller :P
19:41:11 <Bad_Brett> is there a max file size?
19:42:04 <Rubidium> 5 times as bits per pixel (rgba+mask), one layer with 1x zoom, 2x zoom (4x as many pixels), 4x zoom (16x as many pixels) -> so easily 20*5 times as big -> 100 times bigger than opengfx
19:43:14 <Rubidium> opengfx is like 3.5 MiB, so 350 MiB wouldn't be odd for zBase
19:44:29 <Bad_Brett> and if you include 1/2, 1/4 and 1/8 levels it will be even bigger...
19:44:31 <Rubidium> Bad_Brett: yes, it roughly equivalent to the free size on the server's disk
19:46:49 <oskari89> How large is that server's disk anyway?
19:46:50 <Rubidium> Bad_Brett: but insignificant: 0.25+0.0625+0.015625 (=~1/3), which would account to at most 2% and then there's 1% for the actual opengfx (as fallback sprites)
19:47:26 <Rubidium> s/disk/volume used for binaries/ ;)
19:47:44 <Rubidium> I think there's a TB disk in it or so
19:48:08 <MinchinWeb> So can someone explain the difference between the two train acceleration models to me? I'm making a train set and some of the trains never hit full speed with realistic acceleration and I'd like to fix that
19:48:52 <andythenorth> just give them more power
19:49:03 <Rubidium> one is based on physics, the other on... well... something in Chris' head I guess
19:50:07 <MinchinWeb> is it just straight up HP, or do I need to play with weight or TE?
19:53:29 <andythenorth> if alberth turns up, see if you can persuade him that valid xhtml is far nicer than html 5
19:53:33 <andythenorth> for web translator project
19:53:38 * andythenorth has to go to the pub
19:57:42 <michi_cc> MinchinWeb: TE mostly controls acceleration from a stop, HP is more important for top speed, as is the air drag coefficient.
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19:58:38 <MinchinWeb> so no that we really care about realism, but what are 'normal' values to set the TE coefficient and Air drag coefficient at?
20:00:10 <frosch123> the specs list some default value for air drag
20:00:18 <frosch123> te is something between 5% and 25%
20:06:25 <michi_cc> Modern electrics with AC motors usually go up to 30%.
20:17:06 <MinchinWeb> so what were steam locos rated at for TE coeffients?
20:21:20 <oskari89> zBase seems a little bit untextured
20:21:40 <oskari89> And seas/rivers have no animation
20:23:33 <frosch123> MinchinWeb: just use 0.2 * (powered axles) / (total number of axles)
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20:24:16 <frosch123> replace 0.2 with 0.3 for modern engines with electronic systems to increase te
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21:10:28 <oskari89> Who did Logic Train?
21:10:51 <oskari89> It has a maximum speed of 1233 kph regardless of parameter setting
21:13:06 <oskari89> Parameters read 0 35000 at newgrf settings window, and when clicking set parameters, the second parameter changes, not the first one
21:13:30 <oskari89> And first one sets the speed... (?)
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21:31:06 <V453000> that is rather strange :d
21:31:32 <oskari89> It worked in some version but nowadays it doesn't
21:32:27 <oskari89> Logic engine 0.6 worked well
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21:33:30 <oskari89> And there is only one parameter configured on that Logic Train 0.6, manually (number of parametres, set parameter amount)
21:34:15 <oskari89> Seems that 0.7 somehow skips the first parameter and leaves it zero
21:35:44 <oskari89> V453000: Try yourself using 1.3.0 RC1?
21:40:23 <Bad_Brett> hai? you sound like tommy wiseau
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21:59:23 <V453000> oskari89: fixed, on fruit market
22:15:57 <V453000> reward for reporting :P
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22:21:27 <oskari89> V453000: Can't set power over 32000?
22:21:59 <V453000> it would just overflow anyway
22:22:23 <V453000> hm documentation says 65k
22:22:36 <V453000> but that I set originally and it overflowed twice so it gave 32000 again
22:22:57 <oskari89> Ok, you should correct that :)
22:23:02 <oskari89> That documentation :)
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