IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-19
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06:50:49 <Pikka> yes
06:51:34 <andythenorth> really?
07:00:59 <Supercheese> inconceivable
07:01:28 <SpComb> definitively unimpossible
07:01:50 <andythenorth> why must we keep inflation at all costs?
07:01:55 <andythenorth> it's trivial to prove it's broken
07:01:58 <andythenorth> :)
07:03:51 <Supercheese> censeo inflatio esse delendam
07:06:38 <Pikka> yep
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07:10:01 <Pikka> clearly the TTD inflation model is "realistic" though
07:10:13 <Pikka> also not arguing is no fun
07:10:23 <Supercheese> ok
07:10:30 <Supercheese> I like the inflation model, it's great
07:11:48 <Supercheese> actually, I can't even pretend to like it
07:11:51 <Supercheese> :(
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07:15:34 <Twofish> When I left yesterday you all were having the inflation model discussion... Still going on? :p
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07:18:43 <Supercheese> I think everyone's in agreement it sucks
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07:21:20 <Supercheese> How do FIRS fishing grounds production levels work? Random fluctuations?
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07:22:34 <Supercheese> No change at all?
07:22:54 <Supercheese> monthly_prod_change: return CB_RESULT_IND_PROD_NO_CHANGE;
07:23:02 <Supercheese> seems so
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07:24:00 <andythenorth> Supercheese: no changes
07:24:05 <andythenorth> they just produce, constant
07:24:10 <andythenorth> it's nice to have something simple
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07:24:17 <Supercheese> Yep
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07:36:19 <Pikka> btw andy, add the Plozzowow Rootburger to BANDIT :)
07:36:38 <andythenorth> I'll consider it
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07:36:54 <Pikka> you will
07:38:07 <Pikka> also here's more colours nailed to the mast:
07:40:13 * Supercheese mostly renders his sprites
07:40:24 <Supercheese> I haven't even paid attention to all that :S
07:41:51 <Supercheese> I just throw models in Sketchup, activate a templated camera setting, and render 8 views
07:41:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: I find your ideas intriguing, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter
07:42:25 <Supercheese>
07:42:51 <andythenorth> :P
07:42:58 <andythenorth> also the diagonals = better
07:43:31 <Pikka> :)
07:44:39 <Supercheese> Oh lord, fake subways have terrible diagonal shortening
07:45:20 <Supercheese> 10 px -> 8 px
07:46:17 <Supercheese> although they're 100% black shadows
07:47:02 <Supercheese> same silhouettes though
07:47:10 <peter1138> don't forget that originally wagons were ~28px, not 32px
07:47:28 <Pikka> yes
07:47:36 <Pikka> but they're actually equally shortened in the diagonals
07:47:57 <Pikka> the wagon sides in the diagonal sprites are ~14px, not 16
07:48:49 <Pikka> and the "correct" diagonal even of a 28px wagon is 20px :)
07:49:47 <Supercheese> Soooo, hmm
07:49:49 <Supercheese> how to fix
07:50:15 <Supercheese> add some height I suppose
07:50:38 <Pikka> with enormous difficulty, so we put up with it Supercheese :)
07:50:49 <Supercheese> I mean with the sprites I have here
07:50:56 <Supercheese> which I can actually try to fix
07:51:13 <Supercheese> easy enough since they're monochrome :P
07:51:20 <SpComb> "convert 8px of vertical information into 7px"
07:51:23 <SpComb> madness, this pixel art
07:55:51 <andythenorth> Pikka: one 10CC grf or several?
07:56:45 <Pikka> one base set with the wagons, parameters, etc, then one for each set for the locomotives
07:57:15 <Pikka> each "country" a seperate grf
07:57:50 <Pikka> but most of it will be in the base set.. all the wagon graphics, all the sound effects, etc
07:58:07 <Supercheese> can road vehicles be zero length?
07:58:13 <Supercheese> or is 1 minimum length?
07:59:10 <Supercheese> 1/8
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08:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> \o/ snow
08:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: 1 is minimum
08:02:39 <Supercheese> Hmm, how best to handle consist length changing via refit
08:02:46 <planetmaker> moin
08:02:53 <planetmaker> yes, indeed a few cm snow here again
08:02:57 <Supercheese> currently I just have a lot of invisible dummy vehicles hanging off the end
08:02:59 <andythenorth> Pikka: so all parameters (if any) in base set?
08:03:06 <Supercheese> and they become active with refit
08:03:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Supercheese: like in HEQS
08:03:09 <Pikka> yes
08:03:20 * andythenorth contemplates BANDIT
08:03:27 <andythenorth> 10 trucks per theme
08:03:35 <Supercheese> that leads to strange things like when the vehicle has clearly left a tile, the invisible bits are still on the tile, and so you can't clear it
08:03:37 <andythenorth> 1 grf with parameters, or multple grfs?
08:03:48 <andythenorth> multiple *
08:03:49 <Supercheese> and likewise for corners
08:04:07 <Supercheese> the vehicle has clearly negotiated the corner, but speed is still reduced because the invisible bits are still on the corner
08:04:12 <planetmaker> Supercheese, you need then to shorten the (technical) length of the visible vehicle so that its technical length + invisible parts have the length of the sprite
08:04:33 <andythenorth> Supercheese: eddi worked out a packing scheme for HEQS
08:04:41 <Supercheese> I would like to know this scheme :)
08:04:45 <andythenorth> so shorten vehicles and pack them together, but the sprites overlap
08:04:51 <andythenorth> he has ascii art somewhere :P
08:04:56 <andythenorth> or it's in HEQS nfo
08:05:05 <Supercheese> I understand the concept, but I do not understand nfo
08:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be under
08:05:16 <planetmaker> is somewhat NML :D
08:05:29 <Eddi|zuHause> err
08:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause>
08:05:37 <planetmaker> :D
08:05:43 <Eddi|zuHause> too early :)
08:05:50 <Supercheese> whaow
08:05:55 <Supercheese> ascii to the max
08:06:00 <Pikka> andy, I feel like trucks are less country-specific
08:06:03 <Pikka> I'd put them all in one
08:06:33 <andythenorth> also no base set for wagons and stuff
08:06:37 <andythenorth> I am figuring one
08:06:44 <andythenorth> only one place to set parameters etc
08:06:53 <andythenorth> less forgetting to add a grf to the game
08:07:09 <Supercheese> Sooo
08:07:17 <Supercheese> which thingies are assigned which lengths?
08:08:22 <Supercheese> I think I get it
08:08:35 <Supercheese> front vehicle is made 1/8 on short refits and stuff is packed in
08:08:40 <andythenorth> yes
08:08:42 <Supercheese> until the next visible vehicle
08:08:50 * Supercheese will try that
08:09:01 <andythenorth> so for 4 wagons, the engine sprite is 'covering' 4 vehicles
08:09:04 <Supercheese> Argh, have to redo all my switches
08:09:07 <andythenorth> yes
08:09:10 <Supercheese> worth it though
08:09:13 <andythenorth> yes
08:09:31 <andythenorth> templating is your friend :P
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08:15:27 <andythenorth> Pikka: refittable capacity container ship. Does this smell of wee?
08:16:09 <Pikka> what benefit does refitting to a smaller capacity give?
08:16:12 <Pikka> lower running costs?
08:16:20 <andythenorth> it's just that it's fast (30mph)
08:16:33 <andythenorth> and the game has no useful part-load orders :P
08:16:41 <Pikka> lower capacity = higher speed?
08:16:44 <andythenorth> nah
08:16:47 <Pikka> oh
08:16:55 <andythenorth> it basically just makes this ship much more useful than all the other ships :P
08:16:59 <andythenorth> this is the one ship to rule them all
08:16:59 <Pikka> hmm
08:17:04 <andythenorth> god-ship
08:17:08 <Pikka> 30 is pretty fast
08:17:20 <Pikka> I have trains that slow in 10cc
08:17:21 <andythenorth> almost realistic
08:17:22 <Pikka> well, one
08:17:30 <Pikka> and it's a bit of a silly one :)
08:18:03 <andythenorth> I think this ship smells of wee currently
08:18:03 <Pikka> I think refittable capacity smells somewhat of wee, but that's just my o'pinyin
08:18:12 <andythenorth> it's ok for log tug and livestock ship
08:18:17 <andythenorth> but they only have one cargo
08:18:49 <andythenorth> hmm
08:18:57 <andythenorth> 'just use a timetable' ?
08:19:16 <andythenorth> which is how real container lines work
08:19:24 <Supercheese> or conditional orders
08:19:42 <Supercheese> problem is then the ship leaves and docks repeatedly, triggering the foghorn sound over and over :P
08:20:05 <andythenorth> conditional orders smell of wee
08:20:08 <andythenorth> how do you even make them?
08:20:10 <Supercheese> they kind of do
08:20:13 <andythenorth> they totally baffle me
08:20:23 <Supercheese> they have very limited utility IMO
08:20:55 <Supercheese> a timetable can do much the same thing
08:21:07 <planetmaker> oh, it can't
08:21:19 <Supercheese> certainly not exactly the same thing
08:21:21 <planetmaker> you can balance trains between different routes with conditional orders
08:21:30 <Supercheese> but for what I use them for they can
08:21:35 <Supercheese> which is all of 1 thing :P
08:22:05 <andythenorth> this is a bit less smell of wee
08:22:10 <Supercheese> whoops, game crashed
08:22:16 <Supercheese> patchpacks \o/
08:22:21 <andythenorth> ^^ could go faster at half load
08:22:51 <planetmaker> see there
08:23:21 <Supercheese> refittable capacities: 450t, 450t, 900t
08:23:24 <Supercheese> 450t twice?
08:23:27 <andythenorth> hax
08:24:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so why again have two refit sizes?
08:24:25 <andythenorth> I'm still not convinced
08:24:52 <andythenorth> "it's useful and interesting" ?
08:25:49 <planetmaker> double capacity... should that not be a different ship? I cannot imagine in any way to send a ship to the docks and refit it to twice its capacity
08:26:02 <andythenorth> container ship it's trivial
08:26:09 <andythenorth> just load more or fewer containers
08:26:10 <Supercheese> load fewer containers
08:26:12 <Supercheese> ninjad
08:26:18 <planetmaker> that's not refit, andythenorth
08:26:20 <andythenorth> no
08:26:22 <planetmaker> that's just not full load
08:26:23 <andythenorth> it's partial load
08:26:47 <Pikka> just need x% load orders :P
08:26:55 <andythenorth> that's what she said
08:26:59 <Pikka> it is
08:27:27 <andythenorth>
08:27:35 <andythenorth> I should lose the extra subtype string
08:28:03 <andythenorth> and make it lower capacity
08:28:05 <Pikka> perhaps
08:28:16 <andythenorth> perhaps which?
08:28:22 <Pikka> perhaps both
08:30:12 <andythenorth>
08:30:19 <andythenorth> I should stop calling it container feeder too
08:30:24 <andythenorth> it's just a small container ship
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08:31:59 <peter1138> oh you
08:32:43 <andythenorth> FISH r1k :)
08:33:24 <andythenorth> herp
08:33:34 <andythenorth> BANDIT is r553 and still has shipped absolutely nothing :(
08:33:41 <andythenorth> CHIPS is r230 and is 'done'
08:33:48 <andythenorth> how silly
08:33:52 <Supercheese> Why does it matter?
08:33:59 <andythenorth> it doesn't at all
08:34:05 <andythenorth> I have a number fetish
08:34:25 * Supercheese doesn't even use revision numbers or the devzone (yet, anyway)
08:34:39 <andythenorth> no version control? :O
08:34:45 <Supercheese> not yet
08:34:54 <Supercheese> manual bundling and archival of releases
08:35:01 <Supercheese> past that I cba
08:35:25 <Supercheese> unless this newfangled Newgrf webtranslator is released on the devzone
08:35:38 <Supercheese> then I'll definitely move my stuff there to take use of it :)
08:35:45 <Supercheese> make use*
08:36:19 * Supercheese wonders if Pikka uses version control
08:46:29 <Supercheese> thanks for the help, good night folks
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09:11:08 <Pikka> hmm
09:11:25 <Pikka> yes andy, I have your problem with graphics variation and auto-refitting :)
09:13:47 <andythenorth> it smells
09:13:59 <andythenorth> who you gonna call?
09:14:27 <peter1138> know what i hate?
09:14:36 <andythenorth> haters?
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09:14:44 <peter1138> yes!
09:14:45 <peter1138> also
09:14:53 <andythenorth> scorpions in your shoes?
09:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> In Theory (tm) you should be able to disable autorefit if it's not the same subtype
09:15:02 <peter1138> i hate it when my earphones cable gets caught on a door handle
09:15:09 <andythenorth> peter1138: that is worse than scorpions
09:15:18 <peter1138> cos those tight-fit earphones HURT when they're wrenched out
09:15:29 <Eddi|zuHause> get earphones without cables
09:15:33 <peter1138> yes
09:15:39 <peter1138> i call them earplugs
09:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> we have the technology.
09:15:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: disabling autorefit is a terrible feature :)
09:16:02 <andythenorth> it's imho a bug
09:16:28 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean partially, not generally
09:16:39 <andythenorth> so do I
09:16:45 <andythenorth> it creates invalid orders
09:17:19 <andythenorth> it's odd that we have 7 pages of daily hate about iGRFs, but creating invalid orders is considered fine :(
09:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i simply won't do subtypes
09:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> so i'm not going to research the problem
09:17:41 <Pikka> all we need is
09:17:47 <Pikka> persistent storage for vehicles
09:17:50 <andythenorth> or love
09:18:12 <Pikka> persistent storage would fix everything
09:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: "vehicle views" (superceding cargo subtypes)
09:18:25 <andythenorth> that would probly work too
09:18:45 <peter1138> make it so
09:19:15 <andythenorth> frosch has been threatening to do a spec
09:19:49 <andythenorth> pikka what flavour is your autorefit trouble?
09:20:06 <Pikka> bock scars
09:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the idea was that you can choose for each vehicle whether you can do subtypes (backwards compatible), views that are fixed on construction, and views that can be changed later
09:20:17 <Pikka> which may be reefings or stockcars also
09:20:21 <andythenorth> oh
09:20:23 <andythenorth> oic
09:20:26 <peter1138>
09:20:29 <peter1138> yeah
09:20:32 <peter1138> not cheap ;(
09:20:41 <andythenorth> woah not cheap
09:21:08 <andythenorth> Pikka: reefers are stinky anyway
09:21:14 <andythenorth> and cattle can go in boxcars
09:21:17 <andythenorth> problem solved?
09:21:23 <Pikka> so's your mum
09:21:29 <Pikka> well, most people don't use autorefit
09:21:36 <andythenorth> just don't support it
09:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> whereof i would use the "fixed" views, to alter the articulated callback
09:21:43 <Pikka> so I guess if you want to use autorefit, you can just put up with graphics changing
09:21:47 <Pikka> no, autorefit is okay
09:21:49 <andythenorth> maybe we just refuse autorefit?
09:22:12 <Pikka> maybe when you "autorefit" the train picks up different wagons in the station or something
09:22:15 <Pikka> who knows?
09:22:30 <andythenorth> I have to solve this for BANDIT
09:22:36 <andythenorth> it's probably ok for trailing vehicles tbh
09:22:40 <andythenorth> not ok for ships :P
09:22:44 <Pikka> yes
09:23:00 <andythenorth> autorefit = switching :)
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09:23:35 <andythenorth> bandit articulated trucks wil do it
09:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: tug+barges just switches the barges?
09:24:07 <andythenorth> plausible
09:24:20 <andythenorth> barges all look same anyway ;)
09:24:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: container ships can refit to oil, but have much less capacity than similar sized dedicated tankers?
09:25:20 <andythenorth> that's what I've done for general cargo ships yes
09:28:01 <andythenorth> I think Squid is going to be ok
09:28:06 <andythenorth> just need graphics :P
09:29:01 <andythenorth> so when ship holds are done
09:29:05 <andythenorth> I'll have to reinvent it again
09:29:27 <andythenorth> are they done yet?
09:29:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause write a spec?
09:30:11 <Eddi|zuHause> spec is easy, just use the articulated callback
09:30:56 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult is the UI for refitting "parts" of articulated vehicles
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09:32:02 <andythenorth> well only allow 2
09:32:07 <andythenorth> then just put 2 in the screen
09:32:13 <andythenorth> and make it work with autoreft
09:32:15 <andythenorth> and autoreplace
09:32:18 <andythenorth> and upgrade
09:32:23 <andythenorth> and conditional orders
09:32:43 <andythenorth> :)
09:32:49 <andythenorth> or just buy 2 ships :P
09:32:52 <andythenorth> tmwftlb
09:33:18 * andythenorth -> work
09:33:24 <Pikka> have fun
09:33:26 <andythenorth> nn;
09:33:29 <andythenorth> vvk
09:33:31 <andythenorth> etc
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09:36:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how would "only 2" make anything easier?
09:42:56 <peter1138> 09:30 < Eddi|zuHause> difficult is the UI for refitting "parts" of articulated vehicles
09:43:05 <peter1138> not really, you can already refit parts of vehicle chains
09:44:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yes-ish, you can refit individual wagons, but not parts of wagons or roadvehicles
09:44:45 <peter1138> that just involves making the check for articulated parts optional
09:44:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but at least with wagons you have a visiual distinction where one starts and the other one ends
09:45:04 <peter1138> well true
09:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> with ships (where all "articulated parts" would be at the same position) you don't have that
09:45:59 <peter1138> pfft, articualted ships is silly
09:46:02 <peter1138> *articulated
09:47:21 <Eddi|zuHause> possibly, but all the infrastructure is already there
09:47:37 <planetmaker> it would be easy to just show a boxed compartment-ization for ships and allow refitting those
09:47:40 <planetmaker> but... well
09:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> just have to use it in the "right" way
09:50:12 <peter1138>
09:50:19 <peter1138> yeah, articulated ships
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09:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like a sound concept :)
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09:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so let me reiterate: ships use the articulated callback to define "holds". while on the map, all these articulated vehicles have the same position and orientation, which order they get drawn is pseudorandom. in the (refit) GUI, the ship is drawn in a way that visually shows the holds (GRF author's responsibility) and a "length"-ish property defines where to click on to select a hold
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09:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so e.g. a 128 pixel (32 length-units) ship with 6 holds would get "length" of 8-4-4-4-4-8
10:00:25 <Eddi|zuHause> \__|_|_|_|_|__/
10:01:27 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, if so, the box graphics should probably be openttd-defined for the articulated parts as in ^line
10:02:01 <planetmaker> and it need not really be different lengths, just different holds
10:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> well, my imagination was that the refit gui would show an "open" sliced version of the ship
10:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you should be able to do that with var10 (extra_callback_info1)
10:05:08 <__ln__> does anyone think many of Asimov's short stories are a bit weak with their plots?
10:06:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i never read them
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10:15:24 <__ln__> the plot in too many of them seems to be that a robot is malfunctioning and doing something crazy, and ultimately the reason is found out to be that the robot was interpreting a human's instructions too literally.
10:17:27 <planetmaker> I didn't have the impression that this kind of plot is the prevailing one in his short stories
10:17:36 <planetmaker> which anyway are best read as paraboles
10:19:27 <jonty-comp> oh lord, using a separate thread for rendering on the android port does not work well :P
10:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure there are a dozen star trek episodes with the same plot :)
10:25:42 <__ln__> unpossible
10:27:43 <Flygon> No Star Trek episode shall ever repeat Threshold
10:27:48 <Flygon> Ever
10:28:33 <Flygon> __ln__: I read the stories. I get the feeling the plot wasn't the only draw.
10:30:17 <planetmaker> wonder what made you mention threshold... I just added tvscl, image_threshold(image_uppart - bkg_image)
10:30:17 <planetmaker> to my programme ;-)
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10:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly was threshold again?
10:35:32 <peter1138> jonty-comp, oh aye?
10:35:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that was the year when everyone did mystery-scifi?
10:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and none of them succeeded?
10:43:58 <jonty-comp> peter1138: all the moving sprites have massive glitches over them
10:44:03 <jonty-comp> i shall screenshot it!
10:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> jonty-comp: so you failed to lock the data during drawing?
10:49:19 <jonty-comp>
10:49:28 <jonty-comp> i'm not a developer, i just installed it :P
10:49:51 <jonty-comp> and the option says "Separate thread for video, may increase FPS on some devices"
10:50:06 <jonty-comp> so i thought "eh, this is a quad-core tegra, i'm sure it won't hurt"
10:50:13 <jonty-comp> as it happens it runs fine without the option anyway
10:50:20 <peter1138> nice
10:52:24 <jonty-comp> SSL protocol error :o
10:52:41 <peter1138> whowhatwhere
10:52:48 <jonty-comp> on my own dropbox link
10:53:07 <jonty-comp> oh, it's okay now
10:54:09 <Eddi|zuHause> jonty-comp: i
10:54:15 <jonty-comp> i
10:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> 'm sure the port is "well tested"
10:54:51 <jonty-comp> i wonder how much modification it has from the original source
10:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, ' is directly next to enter
10:55:32 <jonty-comp> oh yeah, there's a github for it
10:56:04 <jonty-comp> s/github/sourceforge/
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12:51:25 <andythenorth> hmm
12:51:31 <andythenorth> what are 'ports' in FIRS?
12:51:43 <V453000> unicorns
12:52:25 <andythenorth> I've seen them though
12:52:43 <andythenorth>
12:52:56 <andythenorth> I'm happy to help, but that question puzzles me :)
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13:18:27 <copy> hello
13:19:09 <copy> has anybody an idea why I can`t buy more than 75% of other companies?
13:19:43 <planetmaker> yup. You can't buy out companies in multiplayer
13:20:15 <copy> ahh okay thanks. was a old saved game ...
13:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it remembers if a company was started by a human, and won't allow buing that out in singleplayer either
13:20:59 <Eddi|zuHause> unless it goes bankrupt
13:21:19 <copy> okay thanks
13:21:22 <copy> bye
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13:25:13 <planetmaker> @ports
13:25:13 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
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13:40:11 <dihedral> oi
13:43:02 <peter1138> one for andythenorth
13:43:09 <peter1138> oh, he's not here
13:51:00 <oskari89> peter1138: I also thought about sharing that link here :)
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14:00:16 <Eddi|zuHause> there's currently a big controversy about deepening the line from the north sea to Hamburg for such beasts...
14:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Hamburg is actually pretty far inland
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14:26:47 <andythenorth> I disagree
14:27:07 <Eddi|zuHause> who else would...
14:28:33 <peter1138> he's back
14:29:03 <peter1138> we were talking about the article you posted on the bbc
14:33:26 <peter1138> so i got these diamonds
14:34:02 <Eddi|zuHause> you have Aces as well?
14:34:13 <andythenorth> I like that article
14:34:19 <andythenorth> also I have money in a bank account
14:34:25 <andythenorth> but I need someone to unlock it
14:35:28 <andythenorth> the best 419 scam I've seen
14:35:46 <andythenorth> was claiming to be from the nigerian government agency that refunds victims of 419 scams
14:35:51 <andythenorth> it was genius
14:37:35 <Pinkbeast> That article about container ships is very odd
14:38:08 <andythenorth> hmm
14:38:13 <andythenorth> I should stop reading BBC News
14:38:19 <andythenorth> I mostly just get angry or sad
14:38:24 <andythenorth> let's read Twitter instead
14:38:35 <Pinkbeast> "Bearing in mind that the carbon footprint of international shipping is roughly equivalent to that of aviation ... the prospect of these leviathans carving up the oceans in ever greater numbers is likely to be a source of concern for green consumers." er no because they're enormously more efficient that aviation
14:39:42 <andythenorth> sailing ships
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14:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> sailing oceanliners... :)
15:02:47 <peter1138> Pinkbeast, everybody wants locally produced things, but nobody wants to pay the cost of that
15:02:56 <peter1138> therefore, shipping
15:02:59 <peter1138> therefore, ttd
15:03:17 <peter1138> (meanwhile, the beef i get locally is not horse)
15:03:22 <andythenorth> therefore, fun
15:05:03 <Pinkbeast> peter: errr I'm not sure what you're saying that I don't already know
15:05:28 <peter1138> just a random comment
15:06:58 <peter1138> i guess you only listen to sons or watch films or read books once? :p
15:07:11 <peter1138> *songs
15:07:36 <peter1138> fuck little tiny batteries that flip over :S
15:12:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how dare you get beef without horse! it's The Hype right now
15:14:02 <Eddi|zuHause> what do you think is environmentally cheaper? locally produced fruit that is stored in a refrigerated warehouse for half a year, or south african fruit that is shipped 10000km?
15:18:08 <peter1138> hence seasonal food
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17:15:09 <andythenorth> any preferred solution for git-svn?
17:15:21 <andythenorth> or svn-git?
17:16:08 <blathijs> andythenorth: Are you suggesting git-svn is a problem?
17:16:23 <blathijs> Or are you not referring to the piece of software called "git-svn" ?
17:16:24 <andythenorth> it's a thing that needs to be done
17:16:34 <andythenorth> there are a range of tools, git-svn is one
17:16:47 <andythenorth> there are others :P
17:16:55 <andythenorth> looking for recommendations
17:17:01 <blathijs> To do what exactly?
17:17:12 <Pinkbeast> Richard Kettlewell's "vcs" software;
17:18:07 <andythenorth> in this case, move an svn repo into git whilst maintaining history
17:18:17 <Pinkbeast> Oh, it's no use for that.
17:18:50 <blathijs> andythenorth: I've used git-svn for that, though I don't know if it is the best tool (It is perfect for using git while the repo stays in svn, though)
17:19:42 <michi_cc> andythenorth: I haven't encountered any problems with the OTTD repo, but it of course doesn't use branching and merging much. Complicated repositories (especially if they don't follow the standard svn layout) will probably require more time to setup and some post conversion fixups.
17:20:13 <michi_cc> andythenorth: is a straight git-svn clone of the complete OTTD svn.
17:21:05 <planetmaker> andythenorth, hg-subversion :D
17:21:15 <planetmaker> </troll>
17:21:37 <planetmaker> hg convert works nicely. Just tested it last week
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17:25:03 <Terkhen> hello
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17:28:12 <planetmaker> hi terjesc
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17:28:17 <planetmaker> hm... hi Terkhen
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17:35:03 <Terkhen> :P
17:35:51 <Terkhen> I should have dropped an additional h at the beginning of my nick
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18:31:09 <tracerpt> hi all
18:33:53 <Alberth> hi
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18:46:40 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25025 /trunk/src/lang (15 files) (2013-02-19 18:46:18 UTC)
18:46:41 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:42 <DorpsGek> dutch - 4 changes by habell
18:46:43 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 9 changes by mrtux
18:46:45 <DorpsGek> english_US - 4 changes by Rubidium
18:46:46 <DorpsGek> esperanto - 13 changes by Asakha
18:46:47 <DorpsGek> finnish - 4 changes by jpx_
18:46:49 <DorpsGek> french - 4 changes by glx
18:46:50 <DorpsGek> german - 4 changes by planetmaker
18:46:51 <DorpsGek> greek - 1 changes by Evropi
18:46:52 <DorpsGek> hungarian - 4 changes by oklmernok
18:46:53 <DorpsGek> italian - 4 changes by lorenzodv
18:46:54 <DorpsGek> korean - 4 changes by telk5093
18:46:55 <DorpsGek> russian - 4 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:46:56 <DorpsGek> spanish - 9 changes by Terkhen
18:46:57 <DorpsGek> swedish - 6 changes by Joel_A
18:46:58 <DorpsGek> vietnamese - 4 changes by nglekhoi
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18:52:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25026 trunk/src/lang/italian.txt (2013-02-19 18:52:15 UTC)
18:52:21 <DorpsGek> -Fix: language compile issue
18:53:20 <Alberth> hi :)
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19:07:04 <Supercheese>
19:07:16 <Supercheese> it's like the movies, but real
19:08:09 <tracerpt> lol
19:08:20 <Rubidium> Supercheese: losers...
19:08:38 <Rubidium> others before have stolen at least 50% more
19:08:49 <Rubidium> (in roughly the same manner)
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19:10:28 <tracerpt> i'm sure they will make it look good in the movie :P
19:10:33 <tracerpt> when it gets made
19:10:37 <peter1138> forums are boring now#
19:10:39 <Supercheese> 180 seconds of action
19:10:42 <Supercheese> boring movie
19:10:43 <peter1138> any drama scheduled?
19:11:06 <Supercheese> peter1138: try Youtube. Or tumblr. Or, well, anywhere really
19:11:20 <Supercheese> Welcome to the Internet, it's mostly cats and drama.
19:11:25 <peter1138> no, they're crap
19:12:12 <Rubidium> peter1138: maybe there's something behind some registration wall
19:12:28 <tracerpt> lol
19:12:43 <tracerpt> i'm browsing thru them before posting some dumb questions
19:13:22 <michi_cc> peter1138: Write about our new grfcrawler search feature, maybe you manage to stir something up ;)
19:13:35 <peter1138> i don't know much about it
19:14:14 <tracerpt> but i've seen loads of dumb questions so I may not need to post at all
19:14:46 <Rubidium> peter1138: "I entered !! in the search terms, then I clicked on search external sites and it does not return anything. Have the OpenTTD devs removed the iGRF files from there as well?"
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19:15:56 <tracerpt> O.o
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19:18:31 <frosch123> Rubidium: no, they are intercepted by openttd and filtered from the search results
19:23:55 <peter1138> la la la i can't hear you
19:24:27 <frosch123> isn't that what tb usually says?
19:25:22 <Rubidium> that's why I haven't seen peter1138 and TrueBrain in real life at the same time ;)
19:25:34 <Rubidium> it's possibly the same person
19:25:36 <jonty-comp> dun dun dun
19:26:47 <TrueBrain> I refuse to give any insight in the matter; that is personal.
19:27:35 <frosch123> Rubidium: you make the bold assumptions that they are "persons"
19:27:48 <Supercheese> WHOIS check
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19:28:02 <Supercheese> that should settle it eh
19:28:16 <TrueBrain> you never used a BNC before, hav eyou?
19:29:05 <andythenorth> oh look it's TrueBrain :)
19:29:33 <TrueBrain> are you sure?
19:30:29 <andythenorth> not in the least
19:30:47 <andythenorth> so
19:31:11 <Supercheese> a needle pulling thread
19:32:54 <frosch123> collecting postage stamps is far better than collecting needles
19:33:57 <Rubidium> Supercheese: where do I live, based on whois?
19:34:09 <Supercheese> it doesn't say where you live
19:34:25 <Supercheese> Just some generic IP and node stuff
19:34:43 <Rubidium> but... what does it tell?
19:35:01 <Supercheese> I was thinking more of comparing the WHOIS results to see if they were identical or close to it
19:35:05 <Supercheese> as opposed to wildly different
19:35:24 <Supercheese> not just checking a single result by itself
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19:36:12 <rubidium_> yes, this looks pretty much not like the whois of Rubidium
19:36:55 <Supercheese> Well there you go, you've spent more effort than I care to :)
19:37:23 <rubidium_> though I couldn't even care enough to make a new user account to prove you wouldn't have guessed until I told you
19:37:38 <Supercheese> of course
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19:41:19 <Wolf01> hello :D
19:45:31 <andythenorth> should nmlc report multiple lang files with same ID?
19:45:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25027 trunk/src/lang/unfinished/gaelic.txt (2013-02-19 19:45:26 UTC)
19:45:33 <DorpsGek> -Fix: missing svn properties on Gaelic
19:46:16 <Supercheese> andy: sounds nice
19:46:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25028 /branches/1.3 (7 files in 7 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:46:46 UTC)
19:46:56 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk:
19:46:57 <DorpsGek> - Feature: Searching of (missing) content via GrfCrawler (r25024, r25023)
19:46:58 <DorpsGek> - Fix: [SDL] Crash after bootstrap download of 32bits base set due to referencing a deleted mutex [FS#5466] (r25017)
19:46:59 <DorpsGek> - Fix: [SDL] Improve 8bpp hardware palette support. Instead of always requesting SDL_HWPALETTE, it is now only done for 8bp blitters in fullscreen mode (r25003, r25002, r24993)
19:48:13 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it shouldn't, or at least it should warn about it
19:52:34 <Supercheese> no warnings for duplicate langids yet
19:52:52 <Alberth> Hi Wold
19:52:56 <Alberth> *Wolf
19:54:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25029 /branches/1.3/src/lang (29 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:54:06 UTC)
19:54:13 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk: language updates
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19:58:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25030 branches/1.3/src/lang/tamil.txt (2013-02-19 19:58:46 UTC)
19:58:53 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Backport from trunk: tamil was upgraded to finished
19:59:13 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25031 /branches/1.3 (5 files in 4 dirs) (2013-02-19 19:59:08 UTC)
19:59:14 <DorpsGek> [1.3] -Update: documentation
20:04:24 <Wolf01> <Alberth> Hi Wold <- ok, you unmasked me, I'm Woldemort!
20:04:39 <Alberth> :)
20:04:54 <Wolf01> or Wolfemort
20:05:07 <Supercheese> Werewoldemort
20:07:24 <Wolf01> or Wolfmoth
20:08:08 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25032 tags/1.3.0-RC1/ (2013-02-19 20:08:02 UTC)
20:08:09 <DorpsGek> -Release: 1.3.0-RC1
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20:20:19 <Alberth> andythenorth: your nml version checking is broken :)
20:20:27 <andythenorth> :P
20:21:15 <planetmaker> o/ RC!
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20:23:49 <andythenorth> hmm
20:23:55 <andythenorth> MP GS game to test the RC? :P
20:24:05 * andythenorth is bored :P
20:24:24 <Rubidium> andythenorth: binaries are not done yet
20:24:28 <andythenorth> :(
20:24:33 <andythenorth> neither are my newgrfs :P
20:24:47 <andythenorth> "patience grasshopper"
20:26:42 <frosch123> andythenorth: write an annoucemost post instead :)
20:27:50 <andythenorth> who me? :P
20:27:54 <andythenorth> hang on
20:28:02 <andythenorth> "We've shipped it. Is it good?"
20:28:02 <andythenorth> done
20:28:42 <andythenorth> my announcement posts are...terse
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20:36:15 <andythenorth> controversial idea
20:36:27 <andythenorth> vehicle sets that suit the climate
20:39:23 <Alberth> snowy wagons and engines above the snow line?
20:41:20 <andythenorth> :)
20:41:23 <andythenorth> snowy ships :P
20:43:24 <Alberth> ice-skating ships :)
20:43:46 <Supercheese> Horse-drawn vehicles on ice
20:43:49 <Supercheese> slip slide
20:47:41 <andythenorth> hovercraft
20:49:40 <andythenorth> who speaks welsh?
20:50:28 <andythenorth> or swedish>
20:50:30 <andythenorth> or slovak?
20:51:00 <NGC3982> I speak Swedish.
20:51:06 * Supercheese speaks English, Spanish, and Latin
20:51:30 <andythenorth> NGC3982: can you fix a FIRS string?
20:52:03 <NGC3982> That depends on what it contains. I guess translation wont be any fuss, if that's your poison.
20:52:17 <NGC3982> Just tell me what to do :)
20:53:04 <andythenorth>
20:53:08 <andythenorth> swedish string is outdated
20:53:14 <andythenorth> it should now be three strings, as per english
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21:01:38 <NGC3982> andythenorth: I notice that the old string uses "t" for man supplies, but crates in the new one. I think i need to know how you translate "crates" in other instances of FIRS, in Swedish.
21:02:19 <NGC3982> I could just translate it, but i guess you want consistency.
21:02:27 <andythenorth> it looks like we don't afaict
21:02:42 <andythenorth>
21:02:48 <andythenorth> translation might be outdated somewhat
21:02:53 <NGC3982> Ill look for it.
21:02:54 <NGC3982> THanks
21:03:15 <andythenorth> should be same as what OpenTTD does with 'crates' for goods
21:03:34 <NGC3982> "STR_CARGO_UNIT_ENGINEERING_SUPPLIES" + ":{SIGNED_WORD} ld{P 0 a or} med ingenjrsmateriel"
21:03:37 <NGC3982> (Y)
21:04:38 <NGC3982> As with the old translation, the word "delivered" should really be added for cinsistency and ..logic.
21:04:55 <NGC3982> cinsistency \o/
21:05:48 <Rubidium> andythenorth: the binaries are done
21:06:04 <andythenorth> :)
21:06:08 <andythenorth> too late for GS?
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21:16:44 <NGC3982> andythenorth:
21:16:57 <andythenorth> bah
21:17:00 <andythenorth> nginx crashed :P
21:17:06 <NGC3982> Please note the old string on row 1.
21:19:21 <andythenorth> I can't see the paste due to devzone pastebin dying :)
21:19:23 <andythenorth> sorry :P
21:19:35 <NGC3982> Oh, i can always paste somewhere else.
21:20:05 <NGC3982>
21:24:42 <andythenorth> NGC3982: thanks :)
21:26:59 <NGC3982> Though, please note that "Cargo production" is a word that should be permanently changed in the Swedish translation, if used somewhere else.
21:27:16 <NGC3982> "Lastproduktion" is a literal translation, and does not really exist as a used term.
21:27:40 <Wolf01> 'night
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21:27:45 <NGC3982> I can take a look after it in the diff.
21:29:40 <NGC3982> ..It is everywhere in the diff.
21:30:18 * NGC3982 takes this with a higher power.
21:30:40 <jonty-comp> i don't think praying will help
21:31:02 <frosch123> night
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22:06:41 <andythenorth> optional end tags in html 5
22:06:43 <andythenorth> madness :)
22:07:40 <peter1138> stupid
22:09:28 <jonty-comp> what
22:09:33 <jonty-comp> that can't be a thing D:
22:09:41 <peter1138> yea
22:10:04 <peter1138> that's why it's not xhtml
22:10:18 <peter1138> too hard for the plebs
22:10:41 <andythenorth> that's 14 years of instinctive end-tag closing I have to overcome now :P
22:10:50 <andythenorth> it does look better for <li>
22:10:58 <jonty-comp> or you could just carry on closing tags like a good boy
22:11:02 <andythenorth> yes
22:11:10 <andythenorth> it's not even clear what we're supposed to do
22:11:18 <andythenorth> standard w3c crap
22:11:28 <peter1138> dont deliberately miss them
22:11:28 * jonty-comp needs to apply for a new SSL certificate but keeps forgetting
22:11:39 <andythenorth> the thing is
22:11:44 <andythenorth> if html 6 brings back end tags
22:11:48 <andythenorth> that's a crapload of code to fix
22:12:06 <andythenorth> not closing <p> is bonkers
22:12:08 <peter1138> end tags aren't wrong
22:12:17 <andythenorth> no
22:12:25 <peter1138> they just left it too lenient
22:12:29 <andythenorth> but why bother if you don't have to? o_O
22:12:37 <andythenorth> ^ and this is how we got PHP
22:13:28 <andythenorth>
22:13:36 <peter1138> ^ and this is how we got reality tv
22:13:36 <andythenorth> ^ on the one hand it's kind of neat
22:13:41 <andythenorth> and otoh, <shudder>
22:13:51 <andythenorth> it's all unbalanced :P
22:14:33 <peter1138> dont do it
22:15:51 <andythenorth> is there any good reason, besides ugliness?
22:16:04 <andythenorth> and I have to write valid xhtml by day
22:16:12 <jonty-comp> i hope <shudder> isn't a tag
22:16:21 <andythenorth> it should be closed if it
22:16:22 <andythenorth> is
22:16:36 <andythenorth> otherwise I'm still rendering shudder
22:16:40 <andythenorth> which will be boring
22:16:41 <jonty-comp> otherwise you would end up with the html5 equivalent of parkinsons
22:16:46 <andythenorth> it should be a tag
22:16:52 <andythenorth> I should go to sleep
22:16:57 <andythenorth> where is pikka pops?
22:17:07 <andythenorth> he should get up around ow
22:17:08 <andythenorth> now
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22:52:06 <Bad_Brett> Helllooo
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23:07:44 <Bad_Brett> anybody?
23:07:52 <Bad_Brett> it's awfully quiet here...
23:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's awfully night here...
23:38:34 <Terkhen> good night
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