IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-02-17
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01:03:44 <Wolf01> 'night
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02:20:11 <Pikka> "Note that vehicle graphics are only updated every time the vehicle actually moves"
02:20:21 <Pikka> is the fact that this isn't true in OpenTTD a bug or a feature? :)
02:20:30 <Pikka> for var 46 motion counter
02:20:46 <Pikka> -OpenTTD +trunk
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03:50:25 <kormer> Anyone know if it there's a lag with the display of log messages in the AI debug panel?
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04:40:17 <Pikka> I don't know, kormer, you might have better luck when the europeans are awake.
04:51:48 <kormer> Thanks, I'm just wondering if it's really taking that long for the script to run, or if it takes that long for the log messages to show up.
04:51:59 <kormer> I may have worked it out though.
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07:31:16 <planetmaker> good morning
07:40:15 <Supercheese> Salve
07:40:43 <planetmaker> savle Supercheese
07:40:49 <planetmaker> fail. more tea
07:40:54 <Supercheese> Heh :)
07:44:22 <Supercheese> Factor planetarum? Planetamfactor?
07:44:42 <Supercheese> Not sure how Latin compounds nouns
07:44:44 <planetmaker> faceo planeta
07:44:58 <Supercheese> Well, that would be conjugated
07:45:00 <planetmaker> hm... wrong case
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07:45:15 <Supercheese> I personally would go for Factor Planetarum
07:45:19 <Supercheese> "Maker of planets"
07:45:29 <Supercheese> of course it'd be your call :D
07:46:52 <planetmaker> :-)
07:47:03 <Supercheese> Or perhaps using -fex suffix
07:47:06 <Supercheese> Planetafex
07:47:24 <Supercheese> Like how pontifex is bridgemaker
07:47:28 <planetmaker> lol
07:47:29 <Supercheese> Planetifex
07:47:34 <planetmaker> sounds nice
07:47:46 <planetmaker> planetafex, though
07:48:36 <andythenorth> bonsoir
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07:49:19 <planetmaker> bon jour, andythenorth
07:49:33 <planetmaker> it's awefully long ago I actually looked at latin grammar... :S
07:49:45 <Supercheese> -ifex suffix would be best, it seems
07:50:10 <planetmaker> likely :-)
07:50:12 <Supercheese> Planetifex
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07:55:18 <planetmaker> sure enough I didn't touch the latin grammar for at least 5 years ;-)
07:55:26 <planetmaker> (given the dust cover :D )
07:55:38 <Pikka> good morning andy and planetmaker
07:55:47 <planetmaker> hello Pikka
07:56:08 <andythenorth> also, if you have a simuscape login, you should read SAC's post
07:56:10 <andythenorth>
07:56:23 <andythenorth> which apart from about 2 matters of fact, I agree with
07:56:51 <andythenorth> I'm pretty sick of dickheads spreading pointless hatred about such a trivial non-thing
07:56:55 <Supercheese> andyseptentrio
07:57:15 <Supercheese> Pikka... bah, nothing to translate there
07:57:17 <andythenorth> 'welcome to the internets' andythenorth
07:57:19 <Supercheese> ;)
07:58:14 <Pikka> dickhead's gonna dick
07:58:23 <Supercheese> spotted dick?
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07:59:57 <Pikka> OzTrans's "oh, maybe I was going to put my actual grfs on bananas, but now I won't" is a nice little bit of drama queening
08:00:14 <Pikka> as now echoed by SAC, I see
08:00:15 <Supercheese> 10/10, would drama again
08:01:04 <Supercheese> dramatize* again
08:10:05 <Terkhen> good morning
08:12:33 <Pikka> good morning Terkhen
08:20:30 <andythenorth> ariverdicicicicic
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08:25:59 <Supercheese> chi-chi-chi-chia
08:28:50 <peter1138> but he wasn't going to :p
08:29:16 <Pikka> of course not, peter
08:29:28 * peter1138 doesn't have a simuscape login to can't read that link
08:29:29 <Pikka> good morning also
08:29:47 <Pikka> you're not missing much
08:30:56 * Supercheese needs a new map to play
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08:50:03 <jonty-comp> oh, excellent
08:50:19 <peter1138> hmm?
08:50:29 <jonty-comp> re above nonsense
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08:59:59 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
09:00:24 <Alberth> moin
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09:03:00 <Rubidium> hallihallo Alberth
09:10:09 <Supercheese> good night
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09:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> <Supercheese> Planetafex <-- sounds like a guy in the Abrafaxes, or Asterix ...
09:15:56 <Alberth> you'll have to keep that until tomorrow, I am afraid
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09:16:41 * planetifex waves ;-)
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09:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: what kind of an attention span do you think i have? :p
09:17:33 <Alberth> infinite ?
09:17:55 <Alberth> may be a tad optimistic though
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09:31:17 <peter1138>
09:31:20 <peter1138> uh what
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09:34:14 <Alberth> ieks
09:34:20 <Alberth> hi andy!
09:34:29 <andythenorth> hola
09:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "we want <hype> because it's The Hype and <buzzwords>"
09:35:49 <Alberth> in bsd?
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09:36:01 <andythenorth> hmm
09:36:04 <andythenorth> Nine Inch Nails
09:36:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know BSD, but the article above certainly reads like that
09:36:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: do they still live? :p
09:36:35 <peter1138> *netbsd
09:36:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause last I heard, yes
09:37:02 <andythenorth> Wikipedia will know :)
09:37:02 <peter1138> nine inch nails is trent reznor. he "stopped touring"
09:37:17 <andythenorth> Ghosts
09:37:25 <peter1138> and moved on to "how to destroy angels"
09:37:35 <peter1138> he got married 'n everything
09:39:06 <andythenorth> imagine
09:39:57 <andythenorth> so ships with 2 holds
09:40:03 <andythenorth> is that spec done yet? o_O
09:41:46 <andythenorth> then I can redesign FISH again :)
09:42:02 <andythenorth> as the new one is nearly all worked out, it must be time to rip it up? o_O
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09:43:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: ever considered using not-real names, not-real vehicle types?
09:43:05 <andythenorth> a la HEQS
09:43:47 <Pikka> eh.. well, I'm leaning that way slightly. but it requires a lot of imagination. :)
09:44:48 <Pikka> certainly plenty of vehicles in 10CC are less than wholly accurate representations of a real vehicle
09:45:01 <Pikka> like the "Crab" introduced in 1914...
09:45:03 <andythenorth> I think it helps
09:45:11 <andythenorth> game world, not real world
09:45:13 <Pikka> yes
09:45:41 <Pikka> which is also why for 10CC I'm (mostly) avoiding using manufacturer's names in the vehicle names.
09:46:25 <andythenorth> +1
09:46:38 <andythenorth> I just get names on a theme
09:46:42 <andythenorth> HEQS is mostly mountains
09:46:51 <andythenorth> FISH was shipping areas
09:46:55 <andythenorth> Squid is lighthouses
09:47:11 <Pikka> :)
09:47:29 <Alberth> andythenorth: ok if I merge the new polish translation?
09:47:32 <Pikka> otoh, bearing /some/ resemblence to the real world helps people relate and work out what they're supposed to do
09:47:34 <Pikka> allegedly
09:47:37 <andythenorth> Alberth absolutely
09:47:52 <andythenorth> resemblance yes
09:48:01 <andythenorth> but strict names and stats encourages rivet counters
09:48:08 <andythenorth> and we all have a bit of rivet counter in us
09:48:52 <andythenorth> anyway, gtg
09:48:55 <andythenorth> time for soft play
09:48:59 <Pikka> bye again
09:49:00 <andythenorth> eeebl
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09:51:39 <peter1138> Pikka, release a play test
09:52:05 <Pikka> I'll put it on bananas with one train in and everyone will complain
09:52:42 <Pikka> it's still a long way from playtest :)
09:52:58 <Pikka> and of course swine industries need doing too
09:53:03 <Pikka> maybe that's what I'll call them, swine industries.
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09:55:38 <andythenorth_> Phone irc
09:55:45 <Pikka> hax
09:55:50 <andythenorth_> It's like star trek
09:55:55 <Rubidium> phone home...
09:56:04 <andythenorth_> I am in the future
09:57:11 <Rubidium> andythenorth_: oh, the world where an audio transmission doesn't work, so then they'll transport a hologram instead?!?
09:58:02 <peter1138> :)
09:58:27 <andythenorth_> Hmm
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09:59:54 <andythen_> Flakey
10:01:51 <Pikka> yes
10:04:51 <andythen_> Weak hax
10:04:59 <Pikka> mmm
10:05:04 <Pikka> I like it when code works first time
10:05:22 <andythen_> \0/
10:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> so... how does one open word 2007 documents?
10:07:17 <andythen_> With Word 2007?
10:07:24 <Eddi|zuHause> are you insane?
10:07:50 <Pikka>
10:07:52 <andythen_> Remains to be seen i think
10:07:54 <Pikka> the F unit has coaches
10:08:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: with LO/OO?
10:08:28 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: apparently not with the versions installed on that computer...
10:09:05 <Rubidium> ?
10:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, got to try that then
10:09:46 <Rubidium> otherwise pretty-pleasing someone else with the appropriate tools
10:11:59 <terjesc> Eddi|zuHause: AbiWord?
10:13:03 <terjesc> And antiword.
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10:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i hate other people's computers... nothing works...
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11:00:59 <Wolf01> moin
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11:03:27 <Alberth> moin
11:21:03 <peter1138> supperchef?
11:21:38 <NGC3982> Morning.
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11:24:13 <peter1138> moo
11:24:48 <NGC3982> Watz
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11:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> niom
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12:18:13 <kennyngston> hi
12:18:57 <kennyngston> I've tried to install latest zbase for openttd, and openttd crashed, due to corrupt zbasse .grf files (Even though the md5 checksums are OK). Any idea why?
12:18:58 <planetmaker> hello
12:19:46 <planetmaker> kennyngston, please provide the crash.log and crash.dmp. Did you try re-downloading zbase? what's the exact error (word by word)?
12:20:30 <kennyngston> planetmaker: ive tried it with the latest, and a previous version too (248 and 245), but let me get the error message again with the 248, one moment
12:21:38 <kennyngston> i have to re-download it
12:24:07 <frosch123> kennyngston: how much ram do you have?
12:24:07 <frosch123> iirc ottd requires 512MB ram to be able to load zbase
12:24:07 <frosch123> and if that is not avaialble, ottd does not handle it gracefully at al
12:24:25 <kennyngston> im on 4 gigs, pretty sure its enough :)
12:26:51 <kennyngston> okay, now i just have to figure out where does ubuntu saves the screenshots..
12:27:42 <planetmaker> ~/.openttd/screenshot
12:27:56 <planetmaker> assuming 1.3.0-beta2 or nightlies
12:28:55 <kennyngston>
12:28:58 <Wakou> Is there any way to get the old 32bpp extra zoom syle of game back?
12:30:14 <kennyngston> well, shows error msg, original checksums, and current checksums
12:31:01 <planetmaker> independent of anything, you should place manually downloaded stuff not anywhere in the content_download directory :-)
12:31:11 <Alberth> Wakou: yes, make LOTS of sprites
12:31:12 <planetmaker> rather in the baseset or newgrf directories
12:31:45 <planetmaker> kennyngston, and that happens also with the zbase you can aquire via ingame content download?
12:31:50 <kennyngston> uhm, i dont have a newgrf dir sadly
12:32:05 <Wakou> Alberth: So that is a no?
12:32:06 <planetmaker> yes, just create it. next to the content_download dir. But zbase goes into baseset
12:32:10 <Alberth> mkdir newgrf solves that
12:32:15 <kennyngston> planetmaker: how can i get it from ingame?
12:32:25 <kennyngston> so ~/.openttd/newgrf ?
12:32:33 <planetmaker> kennyngston, main menu -> content download -> select zbase -> download
12:32:36 <Alberth> Wakou: how would making all sprites not result in getting the style back?
12:32:40 <planetmaker> ~/.openttd/baseset
12:32:41 <Alberth> it's a lot of work, sure
12:32:58 <planetmaker> zbase is not a newgrf :-)
12:32:58 <kennyngston> okay, let me try from /baseset
12:33:05 <planetmaker> doesn't change the problem
12:33:14 <planetmaker> try to get the version from ingame content download
12:33:20 <Alberth> Wakou: due to bad license handling, nothing could be saved from the previous effort, unfortunately
12:33:34 <planetmaker> I'll try and see whether there's an issue with the one offered on devzone currently
12:33:41 <planetmaker> ingame you'll get r245 iirc
12:34:01 <Wakou> I am not a coder, just like to play the game sometimes. but only with the extra zoom, can't see the tiny details of signals etc..
12:34:23 <Alberth> but you can have extra zoom always
12:34:29 <planetmaker> Wakou, you can zom in with every base set you use
12:34:37 <planetmaker> *zoom
12:34:53 <planetmaker> whatever graphics you use allow that
12:34:54 <kennyngston> if i extract it to the baseset dir, it does not show up as an option
12:34:55 <Wakou> I thought it was beautiful before, but now... not so. an do not play anymore. Shame.
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12:35:06 <planetmaker> kennyngston, what version of OpenTTD?
12:35:15 <Alberth> Wakou: you are aware of zBase?
12:35:16 <kennyngston> latest, installed via software center
12:35:24 <planetmaker> latest is not a version
12:35:37 <planetmaker> nor most recent
12:35:41 <kennyngston> assumming its 1.1.4
12:35:48 <Alberth> "installed via software center" is usually ancient
12:35:50 <planetmaker> then you will have no joy with zbase
12:35:57 <planetmaker> get a newer OpenTTD, kennyngston
12:36:00 <Wakou> Alberth: No, what is it?
12:36:10 <planetmaker> zbase requires OpenTTD 1.2.0 or later
12:36:16 <kennyngston> well that explains :)
12:36:17 <Alberth> Wakou: a full 32bpp base set
12:36:41 <planetmaker> kennyngston, you can just go to and unzip it into a dir of your choice
12:36:42 <kennyngston> now i'll just have to find where openttd lives..
12:36:44 <planetmaker> it will just work
12:36:56 <planetmaker> or should at least
12:37:04 <planetmaker> openttd doesn't require install
12:37:11 <Alberth> planetmaker: show confidence, it will! :)
12:37:17 <planetmaker> :-)
12:37:40 <kennyngston> yeah, but if i dont remove the current installation im risking bugs, who knows how will they behave
12:38:34 <Alberth> you can have several installs next to each other
12:38:37 <planetmaker> you don't risk the bugs... just let that rest ;-)
12:38:50 <planetmaker> I have like 25 openttds here :-)
12:39:13 <Alberth> not all running at the same time I hope :p
12:39:22 <Wakou> Alberth: TY TY, I will try that later..
12:39:23 <planetmaker> all you want to make sure is that you know *which* OpenTTD you run :-)
12:39:30 <planetmaker> Alberth, that not, indeed :-)
12:39:55 <kennyngston> I have openttd configured globally, so its in my docker.. thats what i want to overwrite. i dont want to open up a terminal every time i wanna play
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12:48:27 <jonty-comp> i'm sure someone has a ppa of betas somewhere
12:49:13 <planetmaker> openttd itself distributs debs and rpms....
12:49:28 <jonty-comp> also that
12:49:35 <jonty-comp> but ppas update automagically :P
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth
12:51:03 *** ChanServ changes topic to "1.2.3, 1.3.0-beta2 | Website: * (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only | for dev-talk | #openttd.notice for commit notices"
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v DorpsGek
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v peter1138
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v planetmaker
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v SmatZ
12:51:03 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Terkhen
12:51:17 <Alberth> ubuntu eh, that would be the debian repo, mostly famous for its stability :)
12:51:40 <kennyngston> awesome, now i have zbase installed, and i have no sound :))
12:51:57 <planetmaker> download a soundset and a music set then :-)
12:52:03 <planetmaker> also via ingame content download
12:52:08 <kennyngston> yeah i know just saying :)
12:52:24 <kennyngston> also somehow the bigui not working anymore
12:55:06 <kennyngston> hm, wonder, what does the 'palette' option in newgrf does?
12:55:31 <planetmaker> don't worry about it and leave at default, KenjiE20
12:55:39 <planetmaker> sorry... kennyngston
12:55:48 <KenjiE20> o.O hehe
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12:56:14 <planetmaker> o/ KenjiE20 :-)
12:56:59 <kennyngston> im just asking, because ive installed BigUI, but the boxes are still small
12:57:11 <planetmaker> download != install
12:57:24 <kennyngston> allright then, its in my active lis
12:57:24 <planetmaker> or rather download != use
12:57:42 <planetmaker> and only applies to new games
12:58:03 <planetmaker> though the biggui newgrf... if you like it, use it as static newgrf. That's a bit of a hassle, though
12:58:26 <planetmaker> exit openttd. find the right openttd.cfg. edit it in the section [newgrf-static]
12:58:31 <planetmaker> ogfx-biggui =
12:59:00 <jonty-comp> there is annoying lack of software that successfully compiles on ARM
12:59:11 <planetmaker> ah...
12:59:11 <jonty-comp> read: chromium
12:59:17 <planetmaker> ogfx-biggui.grf =
12:59:39 <planetmaker> save openttd.cfg and re-start openttd
12:59:52 <planetmaker> then it will be used in all games, even multiplayer
13:00:04 <planetmaker> and you don't need to configure it every time
13:00:44 <kennyngston> hm it says newgrf biggui cant found
13:00:52 <kennyngston> should it be in the newgrf dir?
13:01:23 <planetmaker> possibly ogfx-biggui/ogfx-biggui.grf =
13:01:56 <planetmaker> its tar file should be in the newgrf dir or in the content_download/newgrf dir (whether you manually downloaded it or via ingame)
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13:12:16 <kennyngston> how can i delete a newgrf from ingame?
13:12:39 <planetmaker> from an existing game? Not
13:12:56 <kennyngston> i meant from my computer to force it to re-download
13:13:09 <planetmaker> why would you do that?
13:13:37 <kennyngston> its the problem with biggui, ive downloaded it from ingame, yet it does not show up wit the other .tar s at the newgrf dir
13:13:51 <kennyngston> not content_download/newgrf, nor /newgrf
13:13:53 <planetmaker> yes. ingame it's placed in content_download/newgrf
13:14:48 <planetmaker> <-- checkout places to look for
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13:27:23 <kennyngston> is there a way to increase the font size in game? (biggui only increased menu sizes)
13:28:07 <Alberth>
13:28:19 <kennyngston> thanks
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14:10:20 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25008 /trunk/src (8 files) (2013-02-17 14:10:15 UTC)
14:10:21 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Make CargoList::Truncate behave similarly to CargoList::MoveTo, i.e. pass the amount to truncate (fonsinchen)
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14:12:35 <oioio> hi! what do I have to do in order to be able to carry fish after I've installed the ECS Agricultural Vector?
14:13:39 <oioio> on 1.2.3
14:14:25 <frosch123> use a ship set, like "fish"
14:17:12 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25009 /trunk/src (3 files) (2013-02-17 14:17:06 UTC)
14:17:13 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: refactor bits of cargo packet (lists) to reduce duplicated code (fonsinchen)
14:22:29 <oioio> frosch123: awesome, thanks a lot!
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14:32:27 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- it works-ish, but i'm sure there are some validation checks missing
14:32:40 <planetmaker> he might also want to use an appropriate train and vehicle newgrf... but too late :-)
14:32:53 <Eddi|zuHause> write: comment("test") to insert an actionC into the grf
14:33:34 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, wouldn't it rather make sense to actionC-ize every comment?
14:33:45 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no, certainly not
14:34:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: first of all, normal comments won't survive the preprocessor anyway
14:34:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and second, actionC is more for "debug symbols"-ish stuff
14:35:07 <planetmaker> NML allows normal comments though
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14:35:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but who really uses nml without preprocessor? :p
14:35:27 <planetmaker> both /* */ and // style iirc
14:35:44 <planetmaker> there's a number of projects which use it without. Biggest one might be NUTS
14:35:57 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i think it'd be a stupid idea
14:36:47 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25010 /trunk (9 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-17 14:36:40 UTC)
14:36:48 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Add general framework for cargo actions, i.e. loading, transfering, delivering and such, to contain this logic in a single place instead of spread around (fonsinchen)
14:36:59 <planetmaker> ok, what exactly was the reason that we need actionC? and how do you make sure it shows up where it should?
14:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i want to "hack" splitting "headers" off grfs to make partial compiles, and i don't, because i hope that nml doesn't rearrange things :)
14:39:59 <planetmaker> like just appending grfs... how would that work with IDs? very badly, I assume
14:40:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i set explicit IDs for vehicles
14:41:19 <planetmaker> hm, I see
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14:48:09 <Eddi|zuHause> just the vehicle sorting will probably be problematic
14:49:21 <NGC3982> Can most - if not all - pre-1900 engine NewGRF's be considerd not to be used with inflation?
14:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> pretty much
14:49:53 <NGC3982> *Changes default strings for the servers*
14:51:00 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25011 /trunk/src (7 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-17 14:50:54 UTC)
14:51:01 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: allow vehicle transfer and profit text effects to be shown at the same time (fonsinchen)
14:54:15 <Eddi|zuHause> since when does the forum display the time on the join date?
14:54:39 <frosch123> as in microseonds?
14:54:56 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25012 /trunk/src (12 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-17 14:54:50 UTC)
14:54:57 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: persistently keep 'reserved' cargo (for full-load improved loading) instead of calculating if for every cycle
14:55:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: as in hours and minutes :)
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14:57:28 <V453000> unicorns?
14:57:42 <Eddi|zuHause> do unicorns eat nuts?
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14:58:03 <V453000> sometimes
14:59:32 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25013 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-17 14:59:27 UTC)
14:59:33 <DorpsGek> -Feature: show the amount of cargo that has already been reserved by full loading vehicles in the station (fonsinchen)
15:09:18 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: since forever, afaik
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15:17:40 <kero> hi
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15:21:50 <andythenorth> so one thing I considered for BANDIT is truck convoys
15:21:55 <andythenorth> instead of building 5 trucks
15:21:59 <andythenorth> build 1 convoy
15:22:07 <andythenorth> easier right?
15:26:15 <frosch123> isn't that what trams are for?
15:27:48 <oskari89> Where is "minimize signal distance when drag&dropping" swich in settings (1.3.0 beta2) ?
15:27:55 <oskari89> Can't find it :P
15:28:30 <frosch123> no idea what setting you mean
15:28:36 <oskari89> Oh, found already
15:28:38 <frosch123> maybe the signal density in the signal gui?
15:28:43 <oskari89> Yes, that :)
15:33:34 <oskari89> When drag&dropping in building, the cost should be shown in the place where the dropping ends, not place where dragging starts, i think :P
15:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc ERROR: "./src/parameters.pnml", line 12: Unrecognized identifier 'REPO_REVISION' encountered <--- what did i make wrong when trying to manually follow the steps the makefile should do?
15:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, forgot to -D blah in cpp
15:41:45 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc warning: "./src/callbacks.gnml", line 1: Block 'capacity_cb_95_switch' is not referenced, ignoring. <-- where can i suppress this warning?
15:43:16 <frosch123> | grep -v 'is not referenced'
15:43:44 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: | doesn't work on std_err :)
15:43:59 <frosch123> |& grep -v 'is not referenced'
15:44:32 <frosch123> maybe even |2 grep -v 'is not referenced'
15:44:41 <frosch123> never tried to only redirect stderr
15:45:00 <kormer> Anyone have any idea why my CPU usage would be near zero while a lengthy gamescript is executing?
15:47:26 <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: lots of debug output?
15:48:03 <kormer> Not really, it's just looping through and doing a bunch of calculations for every town on the map.
15:48:06 <Eddi|zuHause> soooo... how did makefiles work again?
15:48:31 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: first thing is to use a proper editor which can distinguish tabs from spaces
15:48:32 <kormer> The length of the calculation is fine as I've got checks to minimize that, but I'm wondering why CPU drops to zero
15:48:36 <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: make more debug output so you know it's doing something?
15:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: got that :)
15:49:04 <kormer> Oh I did have debug output in there at one point, I took it all out to speed up the ticks
15:49:44 <kormer> Also I have the script pause the game before doing the really long calcs, so Gamescript should be the only thing getting CPU cycles
15:50:21 <Rubidium> the number of operations that script can do is limited per game loop
15:50:34 <Rubidium> it should be configurable somewhere
15:50:38 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: currently i make cets.nml out of cets.pnml which includes engines.gnml which includes hundreds of engine.gnml files, now i want to create an engine.(o)nfo file out of every engine.gnml file
15:51:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess i must change that in cets.src.dep
15:51:49 <kormer> It could be the sleep function I have in there if opsremaining drops below my threshold now that I think about it
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15:52:47 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: then assing a variable the value *.gnmp (possibly with paths)
15:52:48 <DanMacK> Hey all
15:53:03 <frosch123> use $subst or similar to replace the file extension with .o
15:53:14 <frosch123> make that the dependency of the output
15:53:25 <frosch123> and then add an implicit rule how to create .o from gnml
15:53:31 <Eddi|zuHause> now where did i hack the deps into? :)
15:53:51 <frosch123> dest: deps \n <tab> commands
15:54:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that file is autogenerated
15:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i found the code that generates it
15:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but not where i put the data into the table :)
15:55:15 <frosch123> well, if your makefile is autogenerated... then you question is not about makefiles :p
15:55:39 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the .deps file is autogenerated
15:56:03 <frosch123> ah, you mean something like "-include foo.dep"
15:56:08 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's done by some cpp magic
15:56:25 <frosch123> the "-" in front of the include makes it not fail if the file is missing or something like that
15:57:08 <Eddi|zuHause> %.src.dep: %.pnml $(_V) $(CC) -C -M -MF $@ -E -MT $@ - < $<
15:57:14 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever that does :)
15:57:42 <frosch123> it states that foo.src.dep depend on foo.pnml
15:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and then a command line that outputs stuff
15:58:08 <frosch123> and is generated by $(_V) $(CC) -C -M -MF foo.src.dep -E -MT foo.src.dep - < foo.pnml
15:58:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so i need to apply pathsubst to that output
15:59:33 <Eddi|zuHause> or i write that file from my script instead of cpp
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16:19:12 <Alberth> -M typically generates a #include dependency list
16:19:47 <andythenorth> hmm
16:19:57 <andythenorth> can I call cb36 every so many days?
16:20:04 <andythenorth> I have an idea for livestock ships and capacity :P
16:20:10 <NGC3982> Does some of you watch the Nostalgia Critic?
16:26:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm now at: make[1]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target »src/DR/212.onfo«, benötigt von »cets.grf«, zu erstellen. Schluss.
16:27:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it somehow doesn't want to process the %.onfo: %.onml rule
16:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> (or maybe i'm editing the wrong file)
16:29:36 <frosch123> usually it's a issue with paths
16:29:53 <frosch123> onfo not being in the same dir as onml
16:30:39 <__ln__> the comma in front of "zu" feels wrong
16:31:05 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: it's an insertion
16:31:12 <frosch123> it's the closing comma to the comma in front
16:31:24 <frosch123> you can also replace them with "-"
16:31:33 <__ln__> oh, then it makes sense
16:31:34 <frosch123> or ( )
16:31:37 <Eddi|zuHause> "um das Target <blah>, [...], zu erstellen"
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16:32:39 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i have %.onfo depend on %.onml, and %.onml depend on %.gnml
16:32:49 <planetmaker> oh, I missed DanMacK :-(
16:33:04 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so you have secondary dependencies
16:33:41 <frosch123> implicit rules only work one step
16:33:53 <frosch123> i think i never succeeded in making two steps work :p
16:33:58 <frosch123> there is something about .secondary
16:34:03 <frosch123> but i failed with that
16:36:33 <Eddi|zuHause> > make src/DR/212.onml
16:36:35 <Eddi|zuHause> src/headers.pnml:2:28: fatal error: src/defines.pnml: Datei oder Verzeichnis nicht gefunden
16:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but the file is there
16:38:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure it's horribly confused with paths now :p
16:41:17 <Alberth> just make 2 rules? %.onfo: %.onml and %.onml: %.gnml
16:41:41 <frosch123> Alberth: make cannot resolve two implicit rules just like that
16:41:55 <frosch123> you have to tell it about the validity of the intermediate files
16:42:16 <Alberth> .PRECIOUS or so iirc
16:42:59 <frosch123> .PRECIOS: ring :)
16:43:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: so how do i do that?
16:43:47 <Alberth> tbh, I don't understand what frosch is saying, how else do you build chains?
16:44:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, i have these two rules that you said
16:44:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i managed to build the onml out of the gnml, but it still refuses to build the onfo
16:45:08 <frosch123>
16:46:39 <Alberth>
16:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i was having a wrong dependency
16:47:44 <frosch123> hmm, last time i tried that, it did not work for me :p
16:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc ERROR: "lang/english.lng", line 4: Undefined command "VERSION"
16:48:51 <Eddi|zuHause> what have i done now?
16:49:11 <Alberth> missing entry in custom_tags ?
16:49:55 <planetmaker> ^
16:50:26 <Alberth> I debug dependency problems with "make -n"
16:52:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have not changed anything regarding lang files
16:55:43 <Alberth> but you may run a different file, or have changed the order of some things
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16:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, some dependency seems to have been misplaced
16:56:59 <Alberth> and if you use PMs makefile, he tends to generate custom_tags, I learned yesterday, so that file is a dependency on .nml (or whatever you push into nmlc)
16:58:13 <Alberth> hmm, a dependency on the output of nmlc, of course
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17:00:00 <andythenorth> planetmaker: did you have a question for DanMacK?
17:00:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. and that autogeneration seems to be not run
17:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause> for some reason
17:00:06 <andythenorth> I was talking to him on pm
17:00:19 <wakou2> Hi to Alberth and planetmaker
17:00:57 <wakou2> I asked on here earlier about 32bpp amd zoom, and was advised to investigate zbase
17:01:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth, not directly... more generally
17:01:28 <wakou2> ... whoo hooo! Lovely, just the job! Many thanks, to you both and to the devs of zbase
17:01:43 <planetmaker> sweet that you enjoy it, wakou2
17:01:47 <wakou2> :)
17:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> weird, when i do make -n he suddenly does something...
17:01:53 <wakou2> Happy wakou )
17:01:54 <Alberth> wakou2: it is mostly "dev", ie one person :)
17:02:13 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: make -n just prints what it would do if you type make
17:02:23 <wakou2> Yes I thought that might be the case... Who is he? (she)?
17:02:32 <Alberth> Zephyris
17:02:58 <wakou2> I will post on 'forum a TY
17:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes
17:03:14 <kormer> Does anyone know what the max# of signs an AI can build is?
17:03:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: and he would do lots of things
17:03:25 <Alberth> wakou2:
17:04:02 <Alberth> komer the same as you can, but I don't know the limit
17:04:20 <planetmaker> likely around 64k
17:04:27 <kormer> ok thanks planetmaker
17:04:36 <frosch123> there is no company limit
17:04:39 <frosch123> but an overall lmit
17:05:04 <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: one per tick :)
17:05:17 <kormer> one per tick eh? That's probably my problem there
17:05:32 <V453000> :DDD
17:05:45 <V453000> me imagines 64k signs
17:05:52 <Alberth> @calc 65000 / 73
17:05:52 <DorpsGek> Alberth: 890.410958904
17:06:00 <Alberth> :D
17:06:05 <kormer> Off to make a signs build queue...
17:06:32 <Eddi|zuHause> kormer: the AI is automatically suspended until the end of the tick when a command is executed
17:06:56 <Eddi|zuHause> command is anything that would change the map
17:07:06 <frosch123> maybe even longer depending on the "ai construction speed" setting
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17:07:54 <kormer> Eddi, does that also apply to gamescripts?
17:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
17:10:09 <kormer> Is there a list of what commands count for the suspension?
17:10:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i manually forced making custom_tags.txt now, so it now executes stuff... something must be wrong with a dependency but i can't find out where
17:16:57 <frosch123> kormer: everything that affects the game outside of your script
17:17:08 <frosch123> i.e. everything that would need communicating to clients in a multiplayer game
17:17:32 <peter1138> hmm, drama's over i guess
17:17:33 <Eddi|zuHause> so, again, how do i suppress the referencing warning??
17:18:19 <kormer> Thanks froschl123
17:19:20 <Eddi|zuHause> somethin is really slow in the CPP step...
17:27:31 <Eddi|zuHause> errr.... i don't get this one...
17:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause>
17:28:40 <V453000> peter1138: there is a tycoon-war now instead :D what that means, dont ask me
17:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> it makes the file, and then decides to delete it??
17:28:50 <peter1138> apparently
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17:33:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, it's just deleting intermediate files after it's done
17:39:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it seems to execute "$(REPO_REVISION)" for every ${CC} call individually, which is really slow, is there a way to cache this result for the whole make run?
17:41:57 <planetmaker> well. In principle it could be cached. Though REPO_REVISION shouldn't be really slow
17:42:15 <Alberth> assign it to a makefile variable?
17:42:30 <planetmaker> that is a makefile variable ;-)
17:42:49 <Alberth> assign the result to a makefile variable? :)
17:43:16 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, usually there's only one call to CC... is CETS different?
17:43:26 <Eddi|zuHause> now it is :)
17:43:35 <planetmaker> and REPO_REVISION only once assigned thus, too
17:44:02 <planetmaker> it's somewhere in makefile_def or so
17:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i guess it's assigning the command to the variable, not the result of the command
17:46:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so the command is evaluated every time the variable is used
17:47:04 <planetmaker> uhm... *should* not... but...
17:47:39 <planetmaker> hm... maybe ?= does that
17:47:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and i gather there's no way to suppress individual nml warnings, only all of them?
17:47:44 <planetmaker> try := instead
17:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, insanely faster now :)
17:55:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hmzzz... nmlc ERROR: "<stdin>", line 7: Unrecognized identifier 'pruss_A2_0gfx_switch_1' encountered
17:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, oh... i think it's the "reuse graphics" feature :/
17:59:29 <Rubidium> is nml already doing that?
18:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> no, i'm doing that
18:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm referencing the graphics switch of another vehicle by a special table entry, but now i must have both these vehicles in the same file
18:02:41 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise i have nothing to reference
18:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> so... this step seems to work so far (save the custom_tags.txt)
18:12:46 <Eddi|zuHause> now about combining the .onfo to one .nfo
18:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there must be some awk magic that does that
18:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> "ignore all lines of <file> until you reach <text>"
18:16:36 <Rubidium> yup
18:17:54 <Rubidium> something similar is used in the squirrel glue generator
18:18:18 <Eddi|zuHause> awk 'BEGIN {tmp=0} {if (tmp) print $0} /__END_HEADERS__/{tmp=1}'
18:18:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that seems to work
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18:34:41 <Eddi|zuHause> what was again the difference between : and :: rules in makefiles?
18:39:03 <glx>
18:45:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so : is "all or nothing" and :: is "i don't care"?
18:46:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r25014 /trunk/src/lang (13 files in 2 dirs) (2013-02-17 18:46:05 UTC)
18:46:25 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:46:26 <DorpsGek> catalan - 4 changes by arnau
18:46:27 <DorpsGek> english_AU - 12 changes by mrtux
18:46:28 <DorpsGek> english_US - 5 changes by Rubidium
18:46:29 <DorpsGek> finnish - 5 changes by jpx_
18:46:30 <DorpsGek> french - 5 changes by glx
18:46:31 <DorpsGek> german - 5 changes by planetmaker
18:46:32 <DorpsGek> greek - 24 changes by Evropi
18:46:33 <DorpsGek> irish - 14 changes by ioo5
18:46:33 <frosch123> there can only be one : rule with instructions
18:46:34 <DorpsGek> korean - 5 changes by telk5093
18:46:35 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 4 changes by terjesc
18:46:36 <DorpsGek> norwegian_nynorsk - 65 changes by terjesc
18:46:37 <DorpsGek> gaelic - 232 changes by GunChleoc
18:46:38 <DorpsGek> tamil - 205 changes by aswn
18:47:16 <frosch123> you can use multiple : rules to add dependencies, but only one may have commands
18:47:56 <Eddi|zuHause> aha
18:47:59 <frosch123> :: seems to allow multiple rules with commands, which might be executed in order, or maybe even in parallel
18:48:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25015 /trunk (6 files in 3 dirs) (2013-02-17 18:48:05 UTC)
18:48:12 <DorpsGek> -Change: Tamil migrated to 'finished' status
18:48:22 <frosch123> there are also a : b : c rules, which is something about pattern matching, but i don't think you mean those
18:48:42 <frosch123> finally there are a : b | c rules :)
18:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> what if i have a specific rule for "cets.nfo" and one for "%.nfo"?
18:50:13 <frosch123> i think explicit rules always take precedence over implicit rules
18:50:36 <Eddi|zuHause> that should work
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18:54:30 <planetmaker> frosch123, the order with :: rules is not given
18:57:52 <Markk>
18:57:53 <Markk>
18:57:57 <Markk>
18:58:11 <Markk> This is seriously awesome.
18:58:38 <Markk>
19:03:56 <NGC3982> Hih
19:03:58 <NGC3982> Toot-toot.
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19:14:10 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so can you compile CETS yet in a sane time? o_O
19:14:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: not "sane", and i haven't finished the final combination step yet
19:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> but at least it won't use insane amounts of memory anymore
19:15:03 <Eddi|zuHause> and i can use -j<N>
19:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: yes, several east german cities have such "toy" railways
19:17:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: their primary intention was to encourage young people to learn railway-related stuff.
19:17:47 <Eddi|zuHause> they're typically run by real railway staff at the top level, and voluntary youths at the base levels
19:20:44 <andythenorth>
19:21:42 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: Nice
19:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's the rough jist of it
19:21:50 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: Wish that we had something like that here.
19:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: should have grown up in a socialist country, eh? :p
19:22:08 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: But overall, isn't German people interested in trains?
19:22:44 <Markk> Sweden has been run by a social democratic party for most of the last century.
19:22:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: certainly more german people are interested in cars than in trains...
19:22:57 <Markk> Mkay
19:22:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: not the same thing :p
19:23:03 <Markk> No, no really.
19:23:16 <Markk> But we have a socialistic party as well.
19:23:42 <Markk> "Left party", they changed their name from "Left party the communists".
19:23:43 <Markk> :)
19:24:23 <andythenorth> hey look
19:24:27 <andythenorth> a HEQS tram with passengers
19:24:34 <frosch123> hehe, the left party here also changes their name regulary :p
19:24:42 <Markk> :D
19:24:49 <frosch123> i think they are with the 4th or 5th name since 1990
19:25:39 <frosch123> though for some reason after two left parties unioned some years ago, they did not name themself "union party" :p
19:25:43 <Eddi|zuHause> "SED" certainly didn't flow anymore since 1990 :)
19:26:30 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: yeah, but it would have been funny if pds and wasg would union in to a "sozialisistische einheitspartei" :p
19:26:37 <Markk> And until 2005 the then current leader of the left party said that he was a communist.
19:26:43 <Markk> That was fun.
19:26:48 <Markk> He was an idiot.
19:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Markk: so he's not an idiot anymore, not a communist anymore, or just doesn't call himself a communist anymore?
19:27:38 <Markk> Last option.
19:27:42 <Markk> Still an idiot.
19:28:12 <Markk> A lot of double standard in that man.
19:29:00 <Markk> He was the leader of our most leftish party, but his kids go to private schools (that he doesn't think should exist), he got some sort of operation and went to a private clinic (which he also think shouldn't exist).
19:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> if only having rich left people was the only problem of the left party :p
19:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or the social democrats for that matter :p
19:30:40 <andythenorth> narrow gauge former soviet stuff is awesome
19:30:46 <andythenorth> HEQS tram? :P
19:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> STOP DISTRACTING MEE
19:31:18 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: haha
19:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the image doesn't load, anyway
19:31:29 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: Not the only issue, no. :)
19:31:35 <Markk> andythenorth: aw
19:31:38 <Markk> andythenorth: Cute
19:31:46 <andythenorth>
19:32:05 <andythenorth> I should make some random graphical variations for existing tram engines :P
19:32:29 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, by refit subtypes :p
19:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (86): Offset 4: Testing nonexistant variable 62.
19:43:48 <Eddi|zuHause> err, what?
19:44:00 <frosch123> old nforenum
19:44:33 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Error (141): ID 03 30 out of valid range (00..73).
19:44:48 <frosch123> ancient nforenum
19:44:57 <Eddi|zuHause> NFORenum 6.0.0 r924 - Copyright (C) 2004-2012 by Dale McCoy
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19:45:45 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (100): Default ID appears earlier in sprite.
19:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached.
19:46:05 <frosch123> everyone disabled 100 :) it's stupid
19:46:18 <frosch123> 933: -Add: Missing action 2 vehicle vars 4B, 4C, 61, 62.
19:46:57 <frosch123> no idea about the vehicle ids, maybe noone ever changed that :p
19:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so where's Ammler and why did he not yet provide an update? :)
19:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Fatal Error (46): Invalid action byte.
19:48:21 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what that even means
19:49:45 <Eddi|zuHause> that may be an actual error though
19:55:09 <andythenorth> does nmlc encode in DOS palette by default? I've forgotten
19:55:21 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i think so
19:55:35 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, suddenly all warnings are gone?
19:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc ERROR: "scripts/Makefile.nml", line 1: Syntax error, unexpected token "USE_NML"
19:56:56 <Eddi|zuHause> errr...
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20:00:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i got GRF!
20:00:56 <andythenorth> \o/
20:00:57 <Supercheese> how do i got grf
20:01:02 <andythenorth> now do it for FIRS :)
20:01:03 <frosch123> next level is duke, isn't it?
20:01:21 <Supercheese> i can has modz?
20:01:42 <Supercheese> also, what's all this about GRFCrawler-integration?
20:01:59 <frosch123> what's about it?
20:01:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, grf doesn't do anything :/
20:02:43 <Supercheese> something like a new button, "Find missing content on GRFCrawler"?
20:02:54 <Supercheese> browser link to GRFID-searches?
20:03:02 <fonsinchen> velveeta
20:03:05 <andythenorth> 'even more content'
20:03:17 <andythenorth> which isn't strictly true
20:03:20 <andythenorth> but could be
20:03:47 <Supercheese> or will it be search-by-name?
20:03:53 <frosch123> both
20:03:59 <andythenorth> hmm
20:04:03 <frosch123> via grfid when missing files
20:04:14 <frosch123> via name when searching just for fun
20:04:15 <andythenorth> fricking Goods doesn't fricking double capacity in my fricking ships :)
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20:04:22 <andythenorth> I've forgotten how to fix that
20:04:28 <andythenorth> cb36, do it manually?
20:04:31 <Supercheese> Hmm, so if you are missing many grfs, will it open separate tabs/windows or search for all at once, somehow?
20:04:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are two different capacity callbacks
20:04:50 <andythenorth> I'd better visit the docs
20:04:56 <andythenorth> instead of my memory
20:04:58 <frosch123> Supercheese: that is nothing new
20:05:03 <frosch123> grfcrawler can do that for years
20:05:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think nml only uses one of them
20:05:18 <frosch123> <- every server page has a link at the bottom to search for all grfs
20:05:23 <Supercheese> Jeez, I never even tried
20:05:32 <frosch123> it's about triggering that from inside ottd
20:05:41 <Supercheese> Go figure
20:06:03 * Supercheese should pay more attention... but he is all out of funds to pay with :P
20:07:02 <andythenorth> ho ho, here's that diagram frosch123 made
20:07:10 <andythenorth> all it tells me is why I'm confused :D
20:07:57 <frosch123> just pick the right one of the two diagrams :p
20:08:43 <andythenorth> I think misc flag 5 is cleared
20:08:56 <andythenorth> I can't see it set anywhere
20:09:15 * peter1138 clears andythenorth's flags
20:09:22 <andythenorth> oh thanks :)
20:09:23 <andythenorth> how kind
20:09:41 <Eddi|zuHause> so i have 4285 times error 141 :)
20:09:48 <andythenorth> so
20:10:04 <andythenorth> can I check the capacity multiplier of the cargo being refitted to?
20:10:15 <andythenorth> in a vehicle refit varact 2 chain
20:10:48 <frosch123> i don't think so
20:11:24 <andythenorth> so am I missing a more obvious way to do this the code for every grf that provides cargos, and make a big table of cargo capacity multipliers?
20:11:47 <frosch123> just set bit 5 :p
20:12:01 <frosch123> then set a generic capacity via property or cb 36
20:12:13 <frosch123> and set specific capacities via cb15 if you really want to
20:12:19 <frosch123> though i doubt you really want to
20:12:56 <andythenorth> oops
20:13:11 <andythenorth> am I missing the part where nml can set bit 5?
20:13:12 <andythenorth>
20:13:50 <frosch123> misc_flags
20:14:03 <frosch123> maybe it misses a define for the constant
20:14:24 <frosch123> anyway, nml messes with cb 15 and 36, i don't think they have fixed that yet
20:14:44 <andythenorth> I don't mind handling this explicitly
20:15:02 <andythenorth> I just don't know how I get a canonical list of cargo capacity multipliers :P
20:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> real 4m14.176s
20:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> user 17m9.571s
20:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> sys 0m44.141s
20:15:38 <frosch123> get more cores :)
20:16:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i got vehicles now, but graphics look broken...
20:16:19 <Eddi|zuHause> need to check out whether that was the case before as well :p
20:16:52 <andythenorth> would it be easier to teach openttd to load multiple grfs from one container? :P
20:16:55 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25016 trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp (2013-02-17 20:16:49 UTC)
20:16:56 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5476]: integer overflow in UpdateStationRating (fonsinchen)
20:17:16 <Eddi|zuHause> the "sort(FEAT_TRAINS, ...)" thing, that can work with raw vehicle ids, right?
20:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i think the total time got longer, because it now has to process the headers multiple times
20:20:21 <andythenorth> hmm
20:20:29 <andythenorth> one grfid on the container, runtime linking :P
20:20:38 * andythenorth has no idea what he is talking about
20:21:00 <Snail> apart from nml, what's the difference between using cb36 and cb15 for capacity?
20:21:16 <Snail> coz I always use cb36 but wonder if I should use cb15 instead
20:21:17 <frosch123> <- Snail: have fun :)
20:21:30 <andythenorth> :)
20:21:31 <frosch123> anyway, the difference is that cb 15 sets the explicit capacity
20:21:32 <andythenorth> hmm
20:21:45 <andythenorth> so industries don't produce double the amount of goods
20:21:51 <andythenorth> compared to other cargos
20:21:58 <frosch123> while cb 36 sets a reference capacity which is altered by a capacity multiplier depending on the cargo
20:22:06 <Snail> ohh I see
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20:22:15 <frosch123> so, if cb 15 returns 10, then it is 10 for coal, 10 for pax, 10 for goods
20:22:29 <frosch123> if cb 36 return 10, then it might be 40 pax, 20 goods, 10 coal
20:22:32 <Snail> that's why, for instance, if I set capacity = X through cb36, it gets halved if it's goods
20:22:47 <Snail> (or doubled, can't remember)
20:22:59 <frosch123> in general, cb15 is meant for cargos which the grf knows about, while cb36 is about cargos which the grf does not know about
20:23:00 <Snail> while cb15 always sets the final figure, right?
20:23:07 <Snail> ok, I see
20:23:12 <andythenorth> for Goods production, should I double the amount produced by an industry?
20:23:22 <frosch123> similiar to the explicit refit masks for specific cargos, compared to general cargo classes for unknown cargos
20:23:54 <frosch123> [21:22] <Snail> that's why, for instance, if I set capacity = X through cb36, it gets halved if it's goods <- yeah, but unless you set misc flag 5 it is actually kind of random what you get
20:24:04 <frosch123> since it depends on the default cargo type of the vehicle
20:24:38 <Snail> frosch123: well, I assume it depends on the default cargo you set for that vehicle?
20:24:53 <Snail> so for instance I have a vehicle whose default cargo is mail
20:24:53 <Snail> '
20:25:08 <Snail> if it's refitted to passengers, I modify the capacity using cb36
20:25:10 <frosch123> yeah, but if your default cargo is not available, it will go for "first refittable"
20:25:19 <frosch123> and then you have no idea whether it will be coal or goods
20:25:21 <Snail> and I have to put 20 to actually get 40 pax
20:25:26 <frosch123> and depending on that all capacities may change
20:25:32 <Snail> right, I understand
20:25:46 <Snail> but I guess pax or mail should always be safe choices? :)
20:26:11 <frosch123> yeah, it mostly works :p
20:26:50 <frosch123> it's a total mess, but it works in most cases somehow
20:27:06 <frosch123> but if people run into a corner case, they are completely lost :p
20:27:14 <Snail> this clears a doubt of mine. So probably this is the source of the bug that was reported on my thread :p
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20:27:41 <Snail> so actually cb15 gives you more control
20:27:49 <frosch123> depends
20:28:00 <Snail> I mean, if you want to refit to specific kinds of cargo
20:28:01 <frosch123> for once unless you set flag 5, cb15 is not run in purchase list
20:28:06 <frosch123> which will result in bugs
20:28:15 <Snail> flag 5?
20:28:28 <frosch123> furthermore using cb15 puts a decision into the vehicle grf, which should be set by the cargo/industry grf
20:28:35 <frosch123> <- misc flag 5
20:28:48 <frosch123> it's my attempt of fixing cb36
20:28:49 <Snail> frosch123: heh, not a bad point
20:29:20 <frosch123> but it seems as long as the old method somewhat works, people don't use it :p
20:30:47 <andythenorth> I use whatever nml does :)
20:31:05 <Snail> heh
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20:32:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then implement bit 5 in nml :)
20:33:01 <andythenorth> yeah
20:33:02 <andythenorth> that :)
20:35:12 <frosch123> issue 4106 :)
20:37:24 <kormer> What's a common reason Openttd wouldn't recognize a script in a tar, but will recognize when extracted to folders?
20:37:24 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25017 trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp (2013-02-17 20:37:18 UTC)
20:37:25 <DorpsGek> -Fix [FS#5466]: crash after bootstrap download of 32bits base set due to referencing a deleted mutex
20:37:45 <frosch123> kormer: no subdirectory inside the tar
20:37:53 <kormer> I've got a subdir
20:38:08 <frosch123> the tar must not be compressed
20:38:14 <kormer> Let me check that
20:38:42 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25018 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h) (2013-02-17 20:38:35 UTC)
20:38:43 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Move SmallMapWindow declaration to header (fonsinchen)
20:42:21 <andythenorth> so
20:42:37 <andythenorth> vehicles doing capacity correctly haul half as much goods as other cargos
20:42:43 <andythenorth> so industries should produce half as much?
20:43:03 <Eddi|zuHause> cets.nfo is 15MB
20:43:21 <Eddi|zuHause> cets.grf 7MB
20:44:06 <frosch123> and the .png? :p
20:44:38 <frosch123> anyway, the pseudo sprites are compressed with factor 3
20:44:52 <frosch123> two hex digits one space into one uncompressed byte
20:45:01 <kormer> thanks frosch, not sure if the compression was it, but creating a new tar from scratch fixed it
20:45:48 <Supercheese> andythenorth: I was under the impression that goods and other freight were 1:1
20:45:58 <Supercheese> Vehicle carries 50 tons of coal, 50 goods
20:45:59 <Supercheese> etc.
20:46:05 <andythenorth> nah
20:46:22 <andythenorth> crates
20:46:29 <Supercheese> Varies by vehicle set?
20:46:30 <andythenorth> crate is 2t in default game
20:46:38 <andythenorth> vehicle sets handle it poorly
20:46:43 <Supercheese> crate is 2t?!
20:46:47 <andythenorth> check original road vehicles
20:46:53 <frosch123> no, crate is not 2t
20:46:54 <Supercheese> Oh man, haven't used those in years
20:47:01 <Supercheese> default vehicles are so 1995
20:47:02 <frosch123> but 1 crate takes the space of 2t coal
20:47:08 <andythenorth> ah volume, not weight :)
20:47:22 <andythenorth> 'tonnage' in shipping terms
20:47:27 <Supercheese> Well, pfff, weights
20:47:29 <andythenorth> just to confuse the issue :)
20:47:46 <Supercheese> in OTTD a hopper car can, in the same volume, carry the same weight of two substances with very different densities
20:47:52 <Supercheese> magick
20:48:07 <Supercheese> weights are silly
20:48:35 <frosch123> well, industry grfs are not used to set the capacity multiplier property :p
20:48:57 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25019 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp (2013-02-17 20:48:52 UTC)
20:48:58 <DorpsGek> -Fix: GCC doesn't seem to care if one does Class::Class::Function (thinks it is a function), whereas MSVC thinks it is the constructor
20:48:59 <frosch123> they still expect vehicle grfs to fix the issue, though vehicle grfs just cannot do it :p
20:49:44 <andythenorth> iirc, FIRS sets the multipliers correctly
20:50:05 <andythenorth> but really, for game balance, I should halve production of cargos with a high capacity multiplier
20:50:06 <andythenorth> no?
20:50:26 <frosch123> why? you just need more vehicles then
20:50:30 <frosch123> big ships and such :)
20:51:05 <andythenorth> really big ships :P
20:51:09 <frosch123> industry input and output should have about the same mass (with some loss), but usually a big increase in volume
20:51:17 <frosch123> industries output a lot of air :p
20:52:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25020 /trunk/src (smallmap_gui.cpp smallmap_gui.h) (2013-02-17 20:51:55 UTC)
20:52:02 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: refactor SmallMapWindow to make adding map types easier and unduplicate some code (fonsinchen)
20:53:02 <andythenorth> hmm
20:53:06 <andythenorth> sometimes nml is spooky
20:53:08 <andythenorth> it's too easy
20:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i have a dependency problem
20:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> it should run a target after all autogenerated targets have been created
20:55:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't seem to have that represented in dependency rules
20:55:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by rubidium :: r25021 trunk/src/smallmap_gui.h (2013-02-17 20:55:26 UTC)
20:55:32 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: make a lot of SmallMapWindow members protected (fonsinchen)
20:56:51 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... seems to work now, but i have no clue how :/
20:57:32 <andythenorth> herp
20:57:43 <andythenorth> this goods thing messes with my nice set balance for Squid :)
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21:04:50 <Eddi|zuHause> so... what's nml's acceptance status of my patch?
21:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or alternatively, how do i modify my repo so it applies the patch to nml? :)
21:05:20 <Rubidium> acceptance is futile?
21:05:21 <Eddi|zuHause> (on the compile farm)
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21:12:59 <Eddi|zuHause> well, i can't push this as long as nml doesn't support actionC :)
21:13:54 <Rubidium> push enml (Eddi's NML), and depend on it. Then assign Ammler to the CF bug report for not have enml support ;)
21:15:20 <peter1138> can i reply to FS#5475 sarcastically?
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21:25:36 <andythenorth> one way to find out eh?
21:25:40 <andythenorth> simple empiricism
21:28:47 <andythenorth> herp
21:28:51 <andythenorth> making 30 ships is more fun
21:28:56 <andythenorth> than making 60
21:29:32 * Rubidium remembers a patch where you could set the number of vehicles to clone
21:29:41 <Rubidium> then it'd be equally fun I'd reckon
21:30:27 <andythenorth> only if that also creates my newgrf ;)
21:30:32 <andythenorth> which is what I was talking about ;)
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21:31:38 <LordAro> heyo
21:32:47 <andythenorth> I have done some naughty
21:32:48 <Zuu> Hmm, in Swedish, I think "transfer" will translate into two different words depending on if you look at it from a public transport perspective or if you have the freight perspective.
21:33:15 <andythenorth> it would be wise to read the refit capacities wisely for Squid :D
21:33:15 <Zuu> Eg. the PuT translation will not work for freight. (and the other way around)
21:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i should have put "Urgent" or "Immediate" into the priority :p
21:34:27 <Terkhen> good night
21:34:40 <Zuu> Previously it appears that the swedish translation have used public transport methodology, but is now using a word that works for transfer of money but not for transfer of goods or people.
21:34:59 <Eddi|zuHause>
21:34:59 <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
21:35:20 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have commit rights on nml, but I'm not competent to review that :(
21:35:25 <Zuu> And usage of 'transfer' in the game, is usually income due to transfer of goods/people.
21:35:26 <andythenorth> I mostly just commit fixes to constants
21:35:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't think that you would :p
21:37:01 <andythenorth> sorry
21:37:35 <Zuu> Maybe I'll stick to the monetary 'transfer' for now to not favor freight nor PuT termonology.
21:39:14 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: check that the reduce results in an object of the right expression class
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21:42:27 <Alberth> My biggest concern is that NFO comment is really too low level for NML
21:45:46 <Zuu> Is this really corret English? "Play sound effect at the end of a year summarising the company's performance during the year compared to the previous year"?
21:46:05 <Zuu> I read that as that the sound effect is summarising the company's performance, but that sounds wierd.
21:46:39 <Zuu> weird*
21:46:40 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc ERROR: "test.nml", line 20: Comment must be a string literal.
21:46:42 <Eddi|zuHause> seems to work
21:47:26 <Alberth> Zuu: sentence does not make sense, imho
21:47:27 <peter1138> Zuu, sort of
21:47:33 <peter1138> the sound is different depending on your performance
21:48:10 <Zuu> Oh, that feature I didn't knew of.
21:48:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i always wondered why it played a different sound like every one out of ten times
21:48:57 <Supercheese> Profitable sound vs. unprofitable sound
21:49:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (i believe that was already in TTO)
21:49:03 <Supercheese> TTO/TTD feature IIRC
21:49:08 <Supercheese> ninjad
21:50:21 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: assuming you mostly copy/pasted the classes, it looks ok at first sight. However, an NML dev should decide whether having NFO comment in NML is feasible.
21:50:51 <Zuu> Oh, well I've now translated that string to something that sound equaly weird in Swedish :-p
21:51:14 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: (not very relevant, but I am quite not-convinced of that)
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21:55:09 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well the only (short-term) alternative i could see would for me to add some weird no-op-ish sequence that i know the NFO output of, to find out where the header ends
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22:01:39 <Alberth> My problem mostly originate from the fact that NML may want not give garantees about the place of such a primitive, as it introduces limits in implementation choices (which is something a NML user should not be bothered about, imho)
22:02:28 <peter1138> why do you need an nfo comment?
22:02:53 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: to put a "headers end here" marker that i can parse out of the nfo output
22:03:09 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: then i can strip this part, and combine the grf out of the nfo fragments
22:03:25 <peter1138> mixing nfo & nml seems like the wrong thing to do :p
22:03:25 <Supercheese> Never mess with nfo, problem solved :)
22:03:34 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: avoiding the 3GB memory usage nmlc needs when parsing a 15MB nml file
22:03:39 <peter1138> o_O
22:04:33 *** chester_ has quit IRC
22:04:35 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: well, otherwise, one needs to implement nmlc in an efficient language :p
22:05:08 <peter1138> just add more ram/swap ;D
22:05:08 <frosch123> night
22:05:13 *** frosch123 has quit IRC
22:05:20 <planetmaker> good night
22:06:31 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: or implement partial nfo compilation + linking
22:06:35 <andythenorth> space before subtype or not (refit menu)
22:06:36 <andythenorth> ?
22:06:48 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes
22:06:51 <Supercheese> for most recent OTTD, supply a space
22:06:55 <Supercheese> well, for all versions actually
22:06:55 <peter1138> Passengers(up to you)
22:06:56 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:07:00 <andythenorth> done
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22:16:00 <andythenorth> Squid is getting a bit fine-graind
22:16:03 <andythenorth> grained *
22:16:15 <Supercheese> fine-maized
22:16:23 <Supercheese> fine-cerealed
22:16:27 <andythenorth> indeed
22:17:13 <andythenorth> herp
22:17:20 <andythenorth> might need to check if a cargo is defined in a game
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22:20:15 <andythenorth> hmm
22:20:27 <andythenorth> can't find any vehicle vars to check if a cargo (label) exists
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22:25:35 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: action D can, afaik
22:26:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so you assign it to a parameter, then you can read that parameter from an action2
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22:26:44 * andythenorth looks in docs
22:26:49 <andythenorth> GRM?
22:26:56 <Eddi|zuHause> no
22:27:35 <andythenorth> I'm looking for 'active cargo labels' or similar
22:28:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there is certainly railtype_defined, so osmething similar should exist for cargos
22:28:19 <andythenorth> wouldn't it depend on grf-load order?
22:28:24 <Supercheese> "should:
22:28:26 <Supercheese> "*
22:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: grfs are loaded in "stages" so that checks like these are possible
22:29:11 <andythenorth> so the docs tell me :)
22:29:19 <andythenorth> interesting
22:30:37 <andythenorth> sounds like a feature request if not there
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22:32:25 <andythenorth> hmm
22:32:39 <andythenorth> maybe I can just do this with purchase capacity, checking the actual installed cargo
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22:33:56 <andythenorth> time for bed
22:33:58 <andythenorth> bye
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23:08:45 <Ammler> [22:13] <Rubidium> push enml (Eddi's NML), and depend on it. Then assign Ammler to the CF bug report for not have enml support <-- devzone should support that without bugreport :-P
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23:09:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: the grfcodec/nforenum that i got from your repo doesn't seem to be very up-to-date
23:10:20 <Ammler> your?
23:10:41 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the opensuse repo
23:11:16 <Supercheese> Hmm, I keep getting FIRS gas stations building by rivers/lakes
23:11:16 <Ammler> well, since opengfx doesn't need it anymore...
23:11:37 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that a reason? :)
23:13:29 <Ammler> it's at 6.0.1, is there a newer
23:13:43 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: well, you can always submit a update
23:15:15 <Ammler> according to the newsfeed 6.0.1 is newest
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23:15:53 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, then my repo settings are wrong?
23:16:11 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: if you want to use nightly, add grfcodec as requires
23:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i don't find it here:
23:17:22 <Eddi|zuHause> at least not for "sane" architectures
23:17:29 <Ammler> it's in games since around a year alreadey
23:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think i have the games repo
23:18:31 <Ammler> hmm, there is 6.0.3
23:18:57 <Ammler> I will push the update tonight
23:19:27 <Ammler> but well, since no package depends on it anymore, it is kinda low prio
23:20:45 <Ammler> maybe I should better drop it
23:22:03 <Ammler> at least drop from games and move back to home
23:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause> what should that solve?
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23:30:26 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: well, if you don't find grfcodec in the official repo anymore, you look somewhere else
23:30:54 <Ammler> also it seems 6.0.3 doesn't have built yet
23:31:10 <Ammler> so 6.0.2 is last available
23:32:57 <Ammler> pushed, should be available in around 4 hours on the mirrors
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23:34:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: btw in the home repo you have a stray renum 5.something
23:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (nforenum is now part of grfcodec)
23:35:08 <Ammler> I guess, that is just a simlink to nforenum :-)
23:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> even then, 5.whatever is ancient
23:39:51 <Ammler> doesn't matter, it depends on grfcodec
23:41:41 <Ammler> register on obs and I add you to the project, you are welcome to contribute :-P
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23:47:07 <Generalcamo> Would it be possible to add in "Luxery" bonuses for express cars? Say, if the train looks pretty?
23:51:35 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can have cargo "age" slower, i.e. get more profit at the end of the journey
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