IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-01-26
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00:40:50 *** KritiK_ has joined #openttd
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01:22:57 <Supercheese> It definitely isn't not
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03:07:16 <Theiket> Can anyone tell me when I can buy shares in a company?
03:07:35 <Supercheese> The company has to be a few years old first
03:07:56 <Supercheese> Six years it seems
03:07:58 <Theiket> What if the company is over a decade old?
03:08:29 <Supercheese> Is it a multiplayer game?
03:08:34 <Supercheese> I think share buying is singleplayer only
03:08:57 <Theiket> Damn. I might take a look at the settings and see if I can change anything.
04:26:21 <Supercheese> Heh, DMU autorefit to fruit, load fruit, drop off fruit, autorefit to passengers, load passengers...
04:27:19 <Supercheese> I guess they just stick the crates of fruit on the seats :P
05:41:44 <Flygon> That has GOT to be a mistake
05:55:52 <Pikka> cargo payment calculation sure is proof that chris sawyer is a lunatic
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06:22:21 <Supercheese> Hah, first aircraft carrier was in 1861
06:22:47 <Supercheese> carrying hydrogen reconnaissance balloons, but those are still aircraft :P
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06:41:35 <Pikka> "hmm" I wonder if some people will be annoyed if I use "CMNT" for coal ash :)
06:42:28 <Pikka> but reusing cargo labels is good!
06:43:13 <peter1138> and redefine the classes too!
06:43:22 <peter1138> that's why they're customizable right?
06:44:14 <Pikka> doesnt sound so good for hoppers and tankers
06:44:32 <Pikka> fertiliser in litres, vice versa :)
06:45:05 <peter1138> have a packing plant
06:45:09 <Pikka> it shall be bags and people shall like it
06:45:17 <peter1138> that converts bulk fertiliser to bagged fertiliser
06:45:28 <peter1138> then have more than 32 cargo types
06:46:41 <Pikka> look at this silly cheat menu
06:46:52 <Pikka> "Jetplanes will not crash (frequently) on small airports
06:47:13 <Pikka> even with the default vehicles, it is not the case that large aircraft == "Jetplanes"
06:47:29 <Supercheese> Jetplanes --> Large Aircraft
06:51:10 <peter1138> oh you silly egrvts, ignoring my custom colour scheme :S
06:54:18 <peter1138> maybe i could... cheat
06:57:15 <peter1138> i think i will try it :D
07:13:01 <peter1138> now... why does egrvts return base + colour1 + colour2 * 16 instead of just base + bit 14
07:14:09 <peter1138> also, let's try these reversed colour planes
07:20:26 <peter1138> nah, the hackiest part of this patch is injecting recolour sprites
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07:33:51 <peter1138> hmm, all the sprites flicker at some point
07:33:57 <peter1138> but it's just for one frame
07:34:00 <peter1138> (we could be heroes...)
07:38:20 <andythenorth> ho I've got a Peter Gabriel cover of it too
07:44:11 <andythenorth> if looks could kill
07:44:39 <andythenorth> Pikka: I'd like to buy some made up trains for UKRS 2
07:44:46 <andythenorth> for use after about 2000
07:45:03 <Pikka> and post them on the tracking table or something ;)
07:45:11 <andythenorth> that involves work
07:45:13 <andythenorth> can't I just pay :P
07:45:23 <andythenorth> where's your shop?
07:45:24 <Supercheese> the UKRS1 made-up trains aren't satisfactory, I take it?
07:45:24 <Pikka> otoh, everything is 66s
07:46:09 <andythenorth> everything a shed
07:46:15 <andythenorth> yes realism, that is good
07:47:16 <Pikka> what niches do you feel need filling?
07:47:33 <Pikka> smaller non-electric locomotives?
07:47:40 <andythenorth> ha let's be realistic
07:47:58 <andythenorth> scrub the last one they're crappy
07:48:07 <andythenorth> that class 14 that works mainline
07:48:15 * andythenorth is not a foamer honest
07:48:20 <Pikka> the 20s and 37s and 73s are already there, so what's the problem? :)
07:48:45 <andythenorth> the server owner has engine expiry on
07:48:51 <andythenorth> but reliability is poor
07:49:04 <andythenorth> about 2012 I think
07:49:23 <Pikka> they should still be alrightish in 2012 perhaps...
07:49:25 <andythenorth> oh let's do the CargoTram thing
07:49:36 <andythenorth> Network Rail have them, we can play "let's pretend"
07:49:46 <andythenorth> they were trialled hauling wood in wales
07:50:32 <peter1138> oh right, i should place my 66s with powerhauls
07:54:27 <Pikka> 67 is (relatively) small and fast...
07:54:42 <peter1138> it's no 400mph maglev! ;p
07:54:49 <Pikka> trucks are small and (relatively) fast ;)
07:55:32 <andythenorth> 67 is £18k / year
07:55:42 <andythenorth> I can't add it to trains that make £12k / year :P
07:55:47 <Pikka> cheap at half the price!
07:55:52 <andythenorth> nobody made a good truck set yet :)
07:55:59 <Pikka> they might make more with a 67!!
07:56:13 <andythenorth> if I replace the siphon vans :P
07:56:20 <peter1138> less powerful than the pendo though
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07:59:37 <peter1138> how long should an a-train consist be? :p
08:01:57 <Pikka> I get up to about 350/375kib loaded and then it kicks me :D
08:02:18 <andythenorth> it's a long long way to tipperary
08:02:28 <Pikka> about 20 minutes, peter1138
08:02:42 <andythenorth> even SSH is slow to our australian boxes :P
08:02:56 <andythenorth> lots of packet loss usually
08:02:59 <Pikka> or alternatively, the rain :)
08:03:02 <peter1138> what's the setting to increase the timeout?
08:03:34 <Pikka> they're telling us it's not going to flood this time, andy. probably.
08:03:49 <peter1138> ok, max_join_time double
08:03:54 <peter1138> hope that's the right one
08:04:29 <andythenorth> so who's drawn one of those Windhoff things?
08:04:32 <andythenorth> someone should :P
08:05:02 <andythenorth> it's just cabs on a container flat
08:05:16 <peter1138> old ukrs had something like that no?
08:05:52 <andythenorth> I could add one to HEQS, but then we don't get all pikka's ukrs cleverness
08:06:06 <peter1138> there was that train that was 10 units long or something
08:06:06 <andythenorth> also drawing time is curtailed by "getting children haircuts"
08:06:10 <Pikka> ukrs didn't have something like that
08:06:15 <peter1138> except ottd didn't build it right for years and skipped the last piece
08:06:24 <Pikka> but if you draw it I'll add it to ukrs2
08:06:39 <peter1138> *steals from ukrs1*
08:06:44 <andythenorth> there is one somewhere
08:06:51 <andythenorth> might be a tram set actually
08:07:13 <andythenorth> which I am a bit too smug about
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08:14:50 <andythenorth_> Pikka no clay hoods in ukrs 2?
08:16:20 <andythenorth_> Not firs clay afaict
08:17:18 <Pikka> maybe if you didn't specify clay as covered it won't use them
08:25:16 <andythenorth_> Pikka no beer in tai? Fur shame
08:25:52 <Pikka> in fact, breweries become a subtype of fpp D:
08:26:26 <andythenorth_> Port: imports wine
08:26:44 * andythenorth_ should do a mediterranean economy
08:26:58 <andythenorth_> Olives wine cheese
08:28:58 <andythenorth_> Pikka plastic...from? To?
08:29:18 <Pikka> from oil refineries to factories, same as PBI
08:30:09 <andythenorth_> Hmm maybe i can go lego shopping today
08:30:18 <Pikka> it could as well be "chemicals", but whatever
08:30:58 <Pikka> "refined products", eww
08:31:56 <andythenorth_> Firs uses that lbal
08:32:11 <peter1138> A masked gunman has died after being pinned down and restrained by customers during an armed robbery at a bookmakers in Plymouth, police say.
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08:54:21 <Pikka> using big planes on small airports because crashes are turned off
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10:07:40 <peter1138> egrvts now working and reversed cc supported
10:12:58 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so does it work with GermanRV as well?
10:13:13 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: test it? :p
10:13:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there are newer ones
10:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the grf pack probably didn't update it
10:15:07 <peter1138> no bananas = no testing
10:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: then, please tell him that ;)
10:17:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it's my problem, but if always the same people tell these people, it won't make it more likely for them to listen
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10:26:40 <peter1138> could do with depot windows resizing based on sprite size :S
10:28:03 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, anyway, if it doesn't do anything with recolours it probably works fine
10:28:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it does crazy stuff with recolours, that's why i'm asking
10:35:01 <peter1138> doomed waypoint concept!
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10:36:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the signal concept is equally doomed... but he doesn't get it...
10:39:33 <peter1138> oh no, it crashed when i added a ton of grfs!
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10:44:28 <peter1138> dbg: [sprite] Tried to load normal sprite #73551 as a recolour sprite. Probable cause: NewGRF interference
10:48:55 <peter1138> not really a bug cos it only happens when changing newgrfs :p
10:49:13 <peter1138> heh, the 8/32bpp 2cc trains are... um...
10:54:21 <peter1138> holy shit the 2cc set has a lot of vehicles
10:59:54 <V453000> 3 useful ones, yes :)
11:00:27 <peter1138> rgb recolours should be banned
11:02:02 <V453000> is that in trunk yet?
11:02:20 <peter1138> not sure it should be :p
11:05:11 <peter1138> what's right there?
11:06:20 <V453000> its nice to have the option to make custom colours?
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11:21:17 <peter1138> damn, i need underground stations :p
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11:22:29 <peter1138> nah they're a doomed concept
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11:54:44 <andythenorth> underground stations smell
11:55:40 <andythenorth> "oh look at my massive underground steel mill station"
11:55:50 <andythenorth> also the catchment area would need a z dimension
11:55:58 <andythenorth> and catchments are messy enough without gaining volume :P
11:57:44 <peter1138> should i allow rgb rectangle/line drawing?
12:00:01 <andythenorth> to the tile? Or arbitrarily to the screen?
12:00:27 <peter1138> i mean window titles etc etc
12:00:57 <andythenorth> if people use it for bad stuff, we can laugh at them?
12:01:50 <andythenorth> patch authors could specify whacky window drawing?
12:01:57 <andythenorth> just a recolour?
12:02:12 <peter1138> ^ window title bars etc etc
12:02:30 <peter1138> does not use rgb remap
12:02:40 <andythenorth> 'sliders by crayola'
12:03:07 <peter1138> no labels needed :p
12:03:11 <peter1138> except for contrast, heh
12:03:23 <peter1138> could improve that window i suppose:p
12:04:58 <andythenorth> Pikka ponk, do you have a spritesheet for container flat things?
12:06:22 <peter1138> vehicle servicing should take time
12:07:03 <andythenorth> screws with your network mightily
12:07:57 <NGC3982> Morning people, and __ln__.
12:13:56 <__ln__> morning NGC3982 and humans
12:16:29 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: it's formula 1 style servicing :)
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12:23:59 <__ln__> what if one of them commits a crime and has to go to prison?
12:26:17 <Pikka> presflo carries timber as default cargo with firs D:
12:28:00 <Pikka> my computer is too slow to keep up with the server
12:29:24 <andythenorth> Pikka: FIRS uses WDPR
12:29:27 <andythenorth> which is bulk :(
12:29:37 <andythenorth> hysterical raisins
12:29:59 <andythenorth> it includes wood chips
12:30:04 <andythenorth> you have to make it bulk :P
12:30:15 <Pikka> it doesn't and I don't ;)
12:30:21 <andythenorth> otherwise you are Out Of Spec :)
12:30:34 <andythenorth> and the will be trouble before bed
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12:31:13 <Pikka> how about "express" cargos with a note saying that "you should set another cargo class too", despite the fact that the default "express" cargo is "express" only?
12:31:35 <Pikka> as a means to.. what was it?
12:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: i thought about that, but discarded that thought
12:32:38 <Pikka> an attempt to propagate his own unqualified "tourists" concept against other vehicle set coders
12:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> with a properly built vehicle set, it should not matter whether WDPR is bulk or not. there should always be a wagon that loads it
12:34:37 <Pikka> the way I see it, we have weird cargo labels with weird cargo classes, courtesy of the continentals
12:35:00 <__ln__> why isn't the plural of human 'humen'?
12:35:05 <Pikka> it's better to stick with the existing cargo labels, because if every grf author makes up their own labels there's no point having them at all
12:35:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: we've had very lengthy discussions about how to bring some sense into the cargo scheme :p
12:36:03 <Pikka> and as far as cargo classes go, if it's a choice between making my wagons carry weird things and making mb's wagons carry weird things, I'll pick the latter. :)
12:36:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and then we had equally lengthy discussions about how to bring some sense into the railtype scheme :p
12:39:11 <Pikka> and exactly eddi, it shouldn't matter if my "WDPR" is "Lumber" and doesn't include woodchips, any vehicle set should still be able to carry it just fine
12:39:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, we care about trains and stuff... of course we are all mad
12:40:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: you may get weird effects with sets using the old cargo refit mask instead of the new include/exclude lists
12:44:11 <peter1138> WDPR... processed wood?
12:47:02 <Pikka> Cloudy with rain periods, heavy at times. Strong to gale force E to NE winds with damaging wind gusts, possibly locally destructive.
12:47:10 <Pikka> bring back the heatwave
12:47:36 <Pikka> A Severe Weather Warning for Damaging to Destructive Winds, Heavy Rainfall, Abnormally High Tides and Dangerous Surf is current. A Flood Warning is current for coastal rivers and adjacent inland streams and catchments.
12:48:44 <andythenorth> Pikka: your vehicles refit on classes or labels?
12:49:19 <andythenorth> obv. both, but which are you relying on for graphics?
12:49:40 * andythenorth is making no sense to self
12:50:13 <andythenorth> after "The great 5 day class debate of 2011"
12:50:25 <andythenorth> I concluded that if you care, use labels, otherwise it's lucky dip
12:50:47 <andythenorth> also that there is lots of bad advice about classes :P
12:50:56 <Pikka> labels for what you have specific graphics for, classes for the rest, fairly straightforward :)
12:51:51 <Pikka> like the open wagons have specific loads for coal, iore, etc, and then just grey stuff for uncovered and hood for covered
12:52:25 <andythenorth> you can break WDPR
12:52:33 <andythenorth> because the classes shouldn't fricking matter :P
12:52:53 <andythenorth> maybe I should too
12:53:08 <andythenorth> I fill your wagons up with all kinds of random stuff :P
12:53:20 <andythenorth> FISH in the big covered hopper :P
12:54:31 <Pikka> Severe Fire Danger in the North West, Central West and Channel Country
12:54:31 <Pikka> districts, and southwest parts of the Northern Goldfields and Upper Flinders,
12:54:31 <Pikka> and western parts of the Maranoa and Warrego districts. Temperatures up to 43 degrees, relative humidity down to 15% and winds to 45
13:01:53 <peter1138> and the coloured girls go do do-do do-do do do do..
13:03:06 <andythenorth> Pikka: bit biblical no?
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13:10:07 <andythenorth> so Windhoffs. They come in 700hp-2100hp varieties (1 or 2 cab cars), and 75mph-86mph
13:10:19 <andythenorth> and seem to carry up to about 100t
13:13:03 <andythenorth> in Switzerland they are used as push-pull control cars with electric locos
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14:10:04 <andythenorth> ho ho FIRS r3333
14:18:17 <Flygon> Push pull with electric locos?
14:18:22 <Flygon> Are these Diesel locos or DMU's?
14:20:47 <andythenorth> one is a locomotive
14:21:00 <andythenorth> it's a powered control car I guess
14:21:55 <Flygon> ...is the MU portion Diesel or Electric?
14:23:22 <peter1138> what are you talking about?
14:29:57 <peter1138> loving this obnoxious lime green
14:30:47 * peter1138 ponder text colour too...
14:32:31 <andythenorth> I have imporved FIRS
14:33:35 <Flygon> andythenorth: Scuse the delay
14:37:38 <andythenorth> peter1138: that's fricking awesome
14:37:40 <andythenorth> it actually hurts
14:45:55 <andythenorth> english_us and english_au
14:46:22 <andythenorth> I should remove them from FIRS
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14:48:10 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a powered control car is called an engine
14:49:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so why do you care about these?
14:50:00 <andythenorth> want some in UKRS 2
14:50:09 <andythenorth> I don't care what they're called - flygon does
14:51:16 <andythenorth> I have to draw them though :P
14:55:04 <Flygon> Here, what you'r driving from can either be a control cab of a locomotive or a control cab of a D/EMU
14:55:43 <Flygon> But non-powered cabs are banned by unions
14:56:09 <andythenorth> why are you confused?
14:57:16 <peter1138> non-powered cabs banned! useful
14:58:19 <Flygon> peter1138: Scuse the grammar error
14:58:33 <Pikka> I shall call them Andypotatoes
14:58:56 <peter1138> these ttd colours look dull now ;(
14:59:00 <Flygon> Unions got freaked by incidents involving single-locomotive push-pull sets overseas, and refused to drive retrofitted Harris trains (retrofitted for Diesel use)
14:59:11 <Flygon> So now they operate with a Diesel on both ends
14:59:29 <andythenorth> australia: safety first
14:59:49 <Flygon> As it turns out, the P-class Diesels are so pathetically weak (compared to the modern DMU fleet) that they need the extra traction to work timetables anyway
15:00:26 <Flygon> I prefer a loco on each end for the acceleration benefits alone
15:00:38 <peter1138> oh god zbase vehicles are too big
15:02:59 <peter1138> oh they're called dyno now
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15:09:46 <Flygon> I'm referring to Victoria
15:10:07 <Flygon> Each state has different standards, companies, and most frustratingly, gauges
15:10:15 <Flygon> I've NEVER seen a CargoSprinter in Victoria
15:10:33 <peter1138> ^ do you even boundingbox?
15:10:33 <andythenorth> Flygon: there's only oen
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15:33:28 <Eddi|zuHause> nobody cares about bounding boxes :p
15:34:28 <Eddi|zuHause> this extra zoom makes it hugely obvious that they're toy cars
15:37:49 <andythenorth> I'm fixing my bounding box bug in FIRS :P
15:43:50 <andythenorth> still flickering :P
15:45:29 <andythenorth> it's inside the BB
15:45:30 <frosch123> make sure sprites do not extent towards left or right of west and east tile borders
15:45:40 <frosch123> the BB usually does not matter at all
15:45:43 <andythenorth> maybe the extents are wrong
15:45:54 <frosch123> and the rule "the sprite has to be inside the BB" is completly wrong
15:46:03 <frosch123> delete it whereever you find it
15:46:07 <frosch123> it is the stupidest thing to say
15:46:39 <peter1138> BB only matters when they interact
15:47:46 <andythenorth> how is blue treated wrt 'cannot extend beyond tile borders' ?
15:48:11 <peter1138> andythenorth, don't extend below the the south edges either :p
15:49:08 <andythenorth> ok so ignore bounding box, just using that to show tile extent
15:50:11 <andythenorth> it's a childsprite btw
15:50:17 <andythenorth> I could just solve this by deleting it
15:50:23 <andythenorth> but then I don't learn anything :P
15:50:50 <frosch123> oh, childsprites may not extent the size of the parent sprite
15:50:58 <frosch123> extent the parent sprite with transparency if needed
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15:53:46 <oskari892> How many paraller rails do you have had in your scenarios, at maximum?
15:54:40 <oskari892> At the moment I've got 24
15:54:47 <oskari892> 12 in each direction
15:55:12 <peter1138> you can place rails in a scenario
16:00:06 <oskari892> Well, scenarios -> games
16:00:18 <oskari892> I meant games, sorry :)
16:00:22 <andythenorth> how do ports work?
16:00:32 <andythenorth> other stuff -> out
16:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, possibly like primary industries
16:06:35 <andythenorth> dunno what amounts to use for in and out though
16:07:22 <andythenorth> amount out - probably depends on cargo and economy
16:07:28 <andythenorth> amount in, meh, no idea
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16:30:00 <peter1138> more details than a hornby
16:30:13 <peter1138> more details than a zbase sprite :S
16:30:24 * andythenorth needs to buy a trainset
16:31:59 <andythenorth> why is cargodist described as micromanagement?
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16:32:07 <andythenorth> seems opposite to me
16:32:23 <andythenorth> why is infrastructure sharing micromanagement?
16:32:48 <peter1138> what's wrong with micromanagement in a game about management
16:32:54 <peter1138> i mean, trains are just secondary :p
16:33:24 <Wolf01> you could use only ships :P
16:34:05 <Rubidium> infrastructure sharing is definitely micromanagement. All infrastructure should be shared by everyone, just like non-rail infrastructure is
16:34:25 <Rubidium> adding all kinds of settings and payment systems just makes it micromanagementesque
16:37:20 * andythenorth wants industry ownership
16:37:24 <andythenorth> but the foamers will never agree
16:38:09 <Eddi|zuHause> there is no problem with micromanagement if you also have the appropriate macromanagement options
16:41:01 <andythenorth> one of the things I hate most in games is micromanagement
16:41:04 <andythenorth> for example, in mario
16:41:14 <andythenorth> I have to actually press 'jump' to collect stuff and avoid baddies
16:41:25 <andythenorth> and 'right' to advance through the level
16:41:35 <andythenorth> I should just be able to set start and end point
16:41:39 <andythenorth> micromanagement is bad
16:42:59 <andythenorth> peter1138: I fixed that FIRS fishing harbour bug you caused
16:43:05 <andythenorth> with flickery flicker
16:43:08 <Wolf01> andythenorth, you gave me a great idea, a platform game where you need to plan only the path, then see it play by itself
16:43:26 <andythenorth> it didn't exist before then
16:45:33 <andythenorth> tree, falling, forest, etc
16:45:48 <andythenorth> now I have to do some code tidying
16:48:44 <andythenorth> mine looks easier
16:48:49 <andythenorth> more copy-pastey :P
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17:45:30 <peter1138> right, time to rewrite
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18:26:47 <peter1138> urgh, rgb text colouring is ugly
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18:41:02 <peter1138> it might even compile
18:42:07 <peter1138> no ugly global vars!
18:45:16 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24943 trunk/src/lang/estonian.txt (2013-01-26 18:45:09 UTC)
18:45:17 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:18 <DorpsGek> estonian - 4 changes by notAbot
18:54:50 <andythenorth> mart3p has released new ISR ;)
19:01:42 <andythenorth> for some value of 'release' :P
19:06:02 <andythenorth> bananas should have a nightly grfs option
19:06:50 <peter1138> nah, it'd be abused
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19:45:45 <peter1138> [master ad6fbad] Support RGB text colour.
19:52:15 <andythenorth> if I use a virtual env, my preprocess.py runs in 7s instead of 13s
19:52:26 <andythenorth> maybe different python versions :P
20:05:06 <Alberth> import time; time.sleep(5)
20:06:36 <andythenorth> trolls me and runs away :P
20:07:15 * Rubidium wonders whether Alberth returns in 5 minute, hours, days, weeks, forthnights, moons, months, years, ...
20:08:01 * andythenorth wonders if this produces valid nml
20:08:02 <andythenorth> accepted_cargos: [${','.join(['['+ i +', 8]' for i in industry.get_property('accept_cargo_types', economy)])}];
20:09:33 <andythenorth> ho seems to work
20:09:44 <peter1138> is it as ugly as my colour schemes?
20:11:09 <andythenorth> breaking savegames is worth a minor version bump eh?
20:11:20 <frosch123> maybe you can write it in awk syntax then :p
20:12:08 * andythenorth needs some port graphcs
20:12:54 <frosch123> About 716,000,000 results
20:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> anyone besides me find it odd that UKRS2 has version 1.x and not 2.x?
20:14:13 <andythenorth> there are not enough alcohol themed grfs
20:14:14 <frosch123> hmm, apparently i called it manual industries 2-r5
20:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: a bunch of warehouses and cranes? ISR-style objects?
20:14:33 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fortunately dan has sent me some :)
20:14:39 <andythenorth> I just have to slice them and cra
20:14:56 * andythenorth ponders a total graphics replacement grf
20:14:57 <peter1138> setting wait times is so awkward :S
20:15:09 <peter1138> order list with a couple dozen items...
20:15:19 <andythenorth> anyone remember amiga micro machines?
20:15:30 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: timetabling in general is very lacking
20:15:49 <frosch123> peter1138: implement multiselection :p
20:15:55 <andythenorth> base set would be tablecloth etc
20:16:03 <andythenorth> industries would be cheeseboard, wine bottle
20:16:09 <andythenorth> delivery would be to 'plates'
20:16:13 <peter1138> frosch123, i'm still faffing around with doomed concepts
20:16:39 <Supercheese> Customer requires Food to grow. Food delivered this minute:
20:16:41 <frosch123> well, as long as they are fun :)
20:16:53 <peter1138> it's not like you need your eyes is it?
20:17:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: lots of room for toyland replacements
20:17:19 <peter1138> rgb colours now supported for rectangles/lines/pixels and text
20:17:41 <andythenorth> Supercheese: I think you added lots of redundant strings in to FIRS us english btw ;)
20:17:42 <frosch123> sounds like minimap
20:17:46 <andythenorth> I committed it anyway
20:17:55 <Supercheese> I just copied the regular english
20:17:56 <peter1138> cos that uses its own crazy pixel system :p
20:18:22 <andythenorth> so now any changes to english have to be made in two places not one ;)
20:18:32 <peter1138> no point in adding them if there's no change, right?
20:18:34 <andythenorth> you are now official translator
20:18:39 <frosch123> well, too many colours do not always improve looks :)
20:19:02 <frosch123> the broodwar minimap is kind of easier to read than the sc2 one
20:19:17 <frosch123> though it does not look as fancy :)
20:19:18 <andythenorth> did we solve 'setting up an MP game quickly' yet?
20:19:18 <peter1138> but zbase is perfect!
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20:20:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm always reading sim city when someone is speaking of sc2
20:20:13 <frosch123> maybe the minimap should use icons instead of colours
20:20:33 <Eddi|zuHause> takes my brain to adjust a bit each time "wait, he can't mean simcity, must mean starcraft"
20:20:34 <frosch123> if there are more than 10 industry types, the colours are quite useless
20:20:50 <peter1138> and the legend is both too small and takes up too much space
20:20:58 <frosch123> and if you filter for a industry selection, it is kind of luck whether the colours become useful or not
20:21:26 <peter1138> that group of buttons should be moved back to the right hand size of the view
20:21:53 <frosch123> hmm, yeah, like the graph thingie
20:21:54 <Supercheese> The FIRS Sugar Refinery color is especially blarg, since the green blends in with the default green-terrain color
20:22:04 <Supercheese> and I cba to change that
20:22:04 <frosch123> maybe it could even be expanded with some toggle button
20:22:17 <frosch123> most of the times you do not need the legend i thingk
20:22:18 <andythenorth> everyone should have a purple map
20:22:33 <Supercheese> Purple topography... yeah, no
20:22:51 <andythenorth> both of the greens have almost zero contrast
20:23:02 <frosch123> andythenorth: use matlab-style plots :) blue -> yellow -> red
20:23:07 <Eddi|zuHause> the industry map needs something to filter for input/output cargo, i always have to the industry chain, go to the cargo, and then click show on map
20:23:10 <andythenorth> I have no colour perception issues, but those green colours blend with the blue
20:23:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: 'show sources of cargo'
20:23:30 <andythenorth> 'show demand for cargo'
20:23:40 <frosch123> i like the dark green
20:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i mean especially "show both ore mine and steel mill"
20:24:08 <frosch123> the purple is too disruptive
20:24:15 <frosch123> it makes no good contrast to most colours
20:24:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you can do that from industry chain?
20:24:30 <andythenorth> well my map is purple
20:24:38 <andythenorth> so one of you had better review FIRS colours :)
20:24:45 <andythenorth> and fix any that are broken on green
20:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, but only by choosing ore mine and steel mill, not by choosing ore
20:25:01 <frosch123> andythenorth: firs is the reason i coded the blink on mouse over :p
20:25:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I don't follow?
20:25:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: which means i must always remember which industries have which cargo input/output
20:25:20 <frosch123> other than that i also use the chain window to filter
20:25:31 <andythenorth> you need up / down arrows for output / input
20:25:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that is not at all what i am talking about
20:26:03 <andythenorth> what are you talking about ?
20:26:22 <Eddi|zuHause> i want: ALL industries that have something to do with "ore"
20:26:35 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can have an overview what i can transport where
20:26:54 <andythenorth> so even tertiary industries in the chain?
20:27:06 <andythenorth> or just produce / accept?
20:27:41 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the same thing as "go to the industry chain display", "select ore", "show on map"
20:27:51 <andythenorth> but directly from minimap?
20:28:17 <andythenorth> basically cargo filter for industry view
20:29:57 <peter1138> why is there no "output in binary" in c :S
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20:36:47 <peter1138> no, that's hex output
20:37:08 <Kjetil> binary is just unpractical
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20:37:48 <Kjetil> much nicer with encoded groups of 4 bits <3
20:37:53 <peter1138> in this case my bit-stuffing is not nibble-aligned
20:38:53 * andythenorth is short a few $
20:40:30 <Eddi|zuHause> oh... now there's a "football war" in egypt...
20:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> it would be an immediate candidate for "un-word of the year"
20:44:21 <andythenorth> need to check more cargos :P
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20:47:23 * andythenorth didn't think of something
20:47:47 <drac_boy> what you doing anyway?
20:47:47 <andythenorth> "to double production deliver {SIGNED_WORD} [amount required cargos] within three months (or {SIGNED_WORD} [amount required cargos] for quadruple production)"
20:48:01 <andythenorth> [amount required cargos] <- there may be three
20:48:10 <andythenorth> and I need the units :(
20:48:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause you had some recursive function to do this?
20:48:34 <drac_boy> heh still coding like crazy hm?
20:48:40 <andythenorth> cargos vary depending on the economy
20:49:15 <andythenorth> even if this can be figured out the result will be horrible to read
20:49:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: cargolists? can you do those by newgrf strings?
20:49:55 <andythenorth> "deliver {SIGNED_WORD} units of required cargo"
20:50:09 <andythenorth> it's just ugly I think
20:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well you have a string for "units of cargo" for each cargo, so just push that string on the stack?
20:51:11 <andythenorth> "deliver 56,000l of petrol or 56t of food or 56 crates of goods, or combinations thereof"
20:51:21 <peter1138> or maybw {CARGO_SHORT}
20:51:27 <andythenorth> it's basically ugly to explain how this works
20:51:39 <peter1138> param 1 = cargo type
20:51:51 <frosch123> newgrfs do not have such string codes
20:51:59 <andythenorth> and does it make sense anyway?
20:52:01 <peter1138> they can't use them? hmm
20:52:15 <frosch123> it would need cargo translation and such fancy stuff
20:52:23 <frosch123> so, likely not easy to add at all
20:52:30 <andythenorth> 'deliver at least 56 units of cargo' ?
20:52:31 <frosch123> also, i don't get the usecase :)=
20:52:41 <andythenorth> it's an industry with production boost
20:52:47 <frosch123> industries usually know what they produce, so they can just write the whole sentence
20:52:51 <andythenorth> but between 1 and 3 input cargos depending on the economy
20:52:59 <frosch123> and don't need to awkwardly use generic substrings
20:53:17 <andythenorth> I can hard code this
20:53:24 <andythenorth> but even then, what would I write?
20:53:33 <peter1138> frosch123, not sure it would need cargo translation
20:53:47 <andythenorth> input cargos are food (t), goods (crates), petrol (l)
20:53:57 <andythenorth> and you need to deliver 56 units of them in any combination
20:54:03 <peter1138> hmm, depends where the cargo type comes from i suppose. hmm.
20:54:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: decide what you want to write, then figure out how to code it, not the other way around
20:54:14 <frosch123> at least you have "19 Print unsigned word as short volume" and "1A Print unsigned word as short weight"
20:54:22 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's what I'm doing
20:54:31 <peter1138> andythenorth, anyway, those {CARGO_*} codes exist, but apparently you can't use them :p
20:54:36 <frosch123> hmm, though i guess imperial also uses litres?
20:55:10 <Supercheese> Seems to always be liters
20:55:17 <peter1138> no such thing as a liter
20:55:25 <Supercheese> My OTTD says there is
20:55:30 <Supercheese> "117,000 liters of oil"
20:55:48 <andythenorth> I'm going to say 'units'
20:56:01 <Supercheese> litres <- spellchecker underlines that as not-a-word
20:56:09 <andythenorth> derp, I'll probably regret it
20:56:46 <andythenorth> you're a player: how many units is 15,000l ?
20:57:17 <andythenorth> right, but this is the basic economy for basic people
20:57:24 <andythenorth> so I think it's 15,000 units
20:57:43 <peter1138> sounds like a gamescript
20:57:45 <andythenorth> one way to find out
21:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the graph window says "x units or x.000 lit(er|re)s"
21:05:57 <andythenorth> might be crappy gameplay anyway
21:06:11 <Supercheese> Input/output cargos are random? semi-random?
21:06:30 <andythenorth> deterministic per economy
21:06:51 <andythenorth> if I want to vary them, I'll add multiple port industries with different names I think
21:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i'd make a separate line for "quadruple"
21:09:48 <andythenorth> "For quadruple production deliver 224 units of cargo within three months"
21:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> have you thought about time-based increase of cargo yet?
21:11:27 <andythenorth> thought about it
21:11:29 <andythenorth> think it's a good idea
21:11:38 <andythenorth> haven't figure out hth I'd do it yet
21:15:14 <frosch123> you should make the numbers yellow
21:15:25 <andythenorth> tried some stuff like that before
21:15:28 <frosch123> maybe also the double and quadruple
21:15:33 <andythenorth> if you make everything stand out...nothing stands out
21:15:41 <oskari89> Andythenorth: FISH needs to have a Titanic-class ship
21:15:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well, just check the date in the monthly production change callback, plus some random delay
21:16:08 <Rubidium> andythenorth: to get rid of excess cargo/passengers
21:16:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sounds sane
21:16:23 <oskari89> Because i have a docks with 7000+ passengers waiting or so
21:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: CETS has some random delay for the colour change, but it might not be properly tested yet
21:16:28 <frosch123> everyone knows the text after the third time
21:16:33 <frosch123> but the numbers vary
21:16:54 <frosch123> but well, if your numbers are fixed and do not vary, ofc it does not need sticking out either
21:18:00 <peter1138> can i have a 35 bit integer please?
21:18:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in case of growing economy, also the booster requirements should grow
21:19:14 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: maybe
21:19:22 <andythenorth> I've been tweaking them based on gameplay
21:19:36 <andythenorth> it's important that they don't consume all the cargo on the map
21:19:49 <andythenorth> but more production = more requirement
21:19:57 <peter1138> Last service: 19th Nov 1916 (currently it's 2040)
21:20:05 <andythenorth> paddle steamers :)
21:21:00 <Supercheese> must be powered by batteries
21:21:04 <Supercheese> specifically Energizers :P
21:22:22 <andythenorth> the port won't work on maps with no water
21:22:43 <peter1138> try making a map with no water
21:22:50 <peter1138> (without using the scenario editor)
21:24:08 <andythenorth> problem solved then
21:24:27 <andythenorth> now just need some graphics and placement rules and crap
21:28:29 <Supercheese> graphics, always the hardest part :S
22:00:58 <Supercheese> Nice graphic, did you just put that together?
22:02:29 <andythenorth> building on coasts is a PITA :P
22:07:29 <peter1138> if i ignore the LSB
22:07:34 <peter1138> then i can fit 24 pits into 21
22:07:37 <peter1138> no, 24 bits into 21
22:10:24 <Supercheese> Wah, NML throwing weird error
22:10:54 <Supercheese> Let's see what nonsense I coded to cause it
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22:14:54 <peter1138> yay for bitstuffing!
22:15:04 <peter1138> 8 bits of colour index
22:16:16 <peter1138> althogh now i think of it i could've just made it a 4 bit company index and looked up the 24 rgb from there
22:19:37 <Supercheese> Ah, I was missing a .wave file
22:19:45 <Supercheese> the NML error indicated nothing of the sort :S
22:28:57 <Eddi|zuHause> should probably report that
22:29:14 <Supercheese> Well, the error was in an #included file
22:30:40 <Eddi|zuHause> what does that have to do with anything?
22:41:34 <__ln__> does anyone know why the city of the publisher of a textbook is such an important piece of information in academic bibliographies? especially how hard a detail that is to figure out sometimes.
22:42:02 <__ln__> *especially +considering
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23:06:20 <Pikka> winds light to variable
23:06:27 <Pikka> earthquakes in east acton
23:09:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i fear his madness has taken over completely
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23:34:06 <peter1138> "can't remove part of station: there is no station here"
23:34:15 <peter1138> there's just a vehicle on it :p
23:34:37 <Pikka> this? this is a branston pickle sandwich.
23:38:10 <Supercheese> "Fixed an issue where fires created by Unicorns reignite repeatedly after being extinguished."
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23:39:07 <Supercheese> "Cats will no longer autonomously run through walls or full length windows as though they were doors ."
23:39:25 <Supercheese> "Toddlers can no longer get fleas ."
23:39:37 <Supercheese> How did that post miss those?
23:48:16 <peter1138> and which is which anyway? :p
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23:59:33 <Supercheese> Hmm, maybe I should just release an early, "alpha"-ish version of my object set
23:59:48 <Supercheese> I have far too many ideas I want to include in it that won't happen quickly :S
continue to next day ⏵
