IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2013-01-18
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00:00:06 <Supercheese> what about no-grid landscapes?
00:00:16 <Supercheese> not that I use them, but some do
00:40:08 <Supercheese> Actually, the horse & rider I made isn't that badly out of 'scale' after all
00:40:25 <Supercheese> I edited* that is
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04:44:45 <TexasPete> so growing an industry like a coal mine, how should I go about doing this please?
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05:05:29 <planetmaker> TexasPete: just provide good service. that's all
05:05:40 <planetmaker> and exercise patience :-)
05:06:14 <planetmaker> if you play with newgrfs which modify the coal mine, all bets are off, though. They might behave completely different
05:48:57 <TexasPete> that just seems a bit to much like cheating
05:49:57 <TexasPete> well modifying the industry is kind of against the principle of the game
05:50:25 <Supercheese> Some grfs provide complete overhaul of industries
05:50:58 <TexasPete> although I understand that to some its more about the network and building it so its efficient
05:51:30 <TexasPete> It kind of blew my mind what some people have done
05:51:55 <TexasPete> I wanna do it heehee
05:52:50 <TexasPete> I never knew there was such an active following for the game
05:53:15 <Supercheese> 1994-2013, and going strong :)
05:54:23 <TexasPete> just goes to show what an awesome game it is, and the power of open sourcing it
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06:38:33 <Flygon> Supercheese: And that is why we should use Nuclear Power :)
06:39:07 <Flygon> I mean, modern French plants are amazing
06:39:17 <Supercheese> It worked for the USS Enterprise from, like, 1960-something until last year
06:39:17 <Flygon> Almost zero radioactive waste
06:39:32 <Supercheese> first nuclear carrier
06:39:51 <Flygon> Because there was another Nuclear powered Enterprise in the 60s :p
06:39:58 <Supercheese> and that had to deal with a lot of other issues that stationary plants wouldn't
06:40:17 <Supercheese> Nuclear powered trains! Oh wait, NUTS has those
06:40:37 <Supercheese> Nuclear powered airships!
06:40:40 <Flygon> Nuclear Powered trains were experimented with in the 50s
06:40:41 <Supercheese> wave of the future, for sure
06:40:43 <Flygon> It was a collosal flop
06:41:02 <Flygon> The environment was terrible for nuclear reactors (eg. shaky tracks)
06:41:32 <Supercheese> matter of fact, think I read an alt history fiction that had that
06:41:37 <Flygon> Nuclear Powered Airships and Seaships have the benefit of being both massive enough and in an environment where you're unlikely to run into much in the way of physical turbulence
06:41:59 <Flygon> Yes, I did just say turbulence
06:43:52 <Supercheese> Virgin Air Cruises, nuclear powered air-cruise-ships
06:44:08 <Supercheese> he's got enough money to pull that off, what with Virgin Galactic
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08:33:40 <peter1138> if only blender was as easy to use as sketchup
08:36:48 <Supercheese> I use sketchup to render some sprites for my grfs
08:36:52 <peter1138> if only blender was as easy to use as sketchup
08:36:58 <peter1138> wrong window for up-cursor-enter
08:37:19 <peter1138> if only my dvb adapter would work this morning
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08:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> what's this morning different than any other morning?
08:48:47 <peter1138> if only Eddi|zuHause was Eddi|zuHause
08:49:00 <peter1138> hmm, do we only have 2 streetlamp views?
08:49:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. one left and one right
08:50:03 <peter1138> peds running around!
08:51:22 <Eddi|zuHause> road traffic! :)
08:51:37 <peter1138> passenger destinations
08:51:41 <Eddi|zuHause> traffic lights that annoy the hell out of you
08:51:47 <peter1138> when you see your pax walking to busstops and stations
08:52:13 <peter1138> zbase foundations are a bit clumsty
08:53:32 <Supercheese> Pedestrians running around as RVs is possible, but they'd screw over traffic all to hell
08:54:44 <Supercheese> Hmm, can't yet have cargo-dependent graphics for bus stops
08:59:02 <Supercheese> Should fix that sometime :P
08:59:22 <peter1138> bus stops only accept passengers
08:59:57 <peter1138> stations are all rail-centre
09:01:14 <peter1138> some people want custom state machines
09:01:35 <peter1138> which rail stations don't need
09:01:57 <Supercheese> I'd settle for custom graphics for roads and docks
09:02:16 <Supercheese> multiple styles, callbacks for cargoes, amount waiting, etc.
09:02:34 <Supercheese> I'll finish my object set first :)
09:03:53 <peter1138> so i made sketchup give me a 2:1 "isometric" projection
09:03:55 <peter1138> and then it crashed
09:03:57 <peter1138> and now it won't start
09:04:04 <Supercheese> there's an OTTD plugin for sketchup
09:04:14 <Supercheese> gives right view for exporting
09:04:31 <Supercheese> but the refusal to start needs to be rectified, yes
09:05:34 <peter1138> hmm, no glass on zbase stations
09:06:14 <Supercheese> transparency you mean?
09:06:19 * Supercheese has never actually used zbase
09:06:36 <Supercheese> err, transparent covering of sorts
09:11:40 <peter1138> zbase offsets are wrong imho
09:12:02 <Supercheese> Yeah, I think there was some discussion about that
09:12:26 <peter1138> dunno if that's due to the limitations of offsets & wotnot
09:13:47 <peter1138> they should be 3 pixels righter and 1 or 2 pixels upper
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09:16:20 <Supercheese> sheesh, zbase seems to be about the same size as all other bananas content put together
09:18:39 <peter1138> 80* bigger, uncompressed
09:19:36 <peter1138> actually more when you take those magic 3 pixels into account :p
09:20:28 <Supercheese> Oooh, alpha channel on the smoke
09:20:53 * Supercheese is using zbase for the first time
09:21:52 <Supercheese> Awww, water's not animated
09:22:31 <Supercheese> and yeah, lots of glass is missing
09:23:16 <Supercheese> Huh, kinda reminds me of Simutrans
09:24:47 <Supercheese> although some recoloring business may be in the process of changing
09:24:56 <peter1138> it's a mix of dark undersaturated and oversaturated
09:24:57 <Supercheese> also damn, I really miss animated water
09:25:06 <peter1138> ttd is meant to be bright
09:25:30 <peter1138> bridges are wayyyy too odd
09:25:53 <peter1138> i checked out the source repo
09:26:05 <Supercheese> yeah, bridge recolor stuff was mentioned to be a WIP
09:26:35 <Supercheese> haha, some pylons are unattached, floating there
09:27:32 <Supercheese> doesn't even look like the wood bridge has any pylons...
09:27:50 <Supercheese> still, all this was done by a single fellow? Damn impressive
09:27:57 <peter1138> bridges have pillars not pylons
09:28:37 <Supercheese> do action colors not work in 32bpp?
09:29:41 <Supercheese> I don't see any action colors in zbase
09:30:06 <peter1138> that doesn't mean they don't work :p
09:30:22 <Supercheese> true enough, wonder why he hasn't added them, perhaps they're a pain
09:33:14 <peter1138> well they don't really fit in with rendering
09:33:33 <peter1138> so have to be done manually
09:34:21 <Supercheese> Could action-colored bits also have transparency?
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09:36:39 <Eddi|zuHause> action colours can't have 32bpp values, obviously
09:38:12 <Supercheese> Hmm, I was hoping if I ever took Eyecandy Road Vehicles I could have the flashing-red action colors with transparency
09:38:29 <Supercheese> fir flashing emergency vehicle lights
09:38:48 <Supercheese> if I ever took it to extra zoom 32bpp*
09:38:58 <Supercheese> sheesh, I am too sleepy, typos all over :S
09:40:47 <peter1138> no but as long as the vehicle is moving you can have animation that way
09:41:36 <Supercheese> Yeah, not too much more work
09:41:54 <Supercheese> or I could abuse the global animation_counter ... oh wait, I already do that
09:41:55 <peter1138> probably look shit unless it's moving fast mind you
09:42:08 <peter1138> newgrf effects vehicles :p
09:42:32 <Supercheese> I abuse that variable terribly
09:42:45 <Supercheese> switch (FEAT_ROADVEHS, SELF, siren_switch4, animation_counter % 512)
09:42:50 <Supercheese> 96..111: return sound("sirenloop2.wav");
09:42:53 <Supercheese> 112..223: return CB_RESULT_NO_SOUND;
09:43:03 <Supercheese> probably terrible code, but meh
09:44:23 <Supercheese> time for bed, hasta mañana
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10:19:57 <dihedral> anybody familiar with the slab cache? i am facing a large consumtion of about 1.4GB where there is only 2GB of RAM
10:21:59 <peter1138> what's the problem?
10:22:56 <dihedral> most likely me being unfamiliar with it
10:23:27 <dihedral> the system started swapping, so i increased memory
10:40:33 <Pikka> newgrf affects vehicles?
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12:17:13 <peter1138> Pikka, TaI churchs never go, right?
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12:22:51 <V453000> livery override for wagons can affect capacity? :D I have a vehicle which has livery override, 2nd vehicle which doesnt. Wagon capacity switch is the same exact thing, with output of 24, but one vehicle has 40 and other 24 :D it isnt a big issue as I am going to unify that anyway, but looks wtf o_O
12:23:49 <peter1138> callbacks are fun, eh?
12:24:05 <V453000> I dont even understand where does the extra "16" come from :D
12:24:31 <peter1138> are you using cb36?
12:25:03 <V453000> capacity: switch_global_pax_wagons
12:25:06 <V453000> or something like that
12:25:07 <peter1138> nml? whatever that calls i don't know
12:25:18 <Pikka> yes, too many built in big cities, peter
12:26:02 <peter1138> V453000, is there ever a capacity or value or 40 returned?
12:26:23 <Pikka> I increased the probability in the most recent version, probably shouldn't have
12:26:31 <V453000> ooooh yeah there is, in the properties of the item
12:26:36 <V453000> guess I just change that :S
12:27:00 <peter1138> well, is it intended for the cargo capacity to be variable?
12:27:04 <V453000> the capacity: switch; clearly isnt working
12:27:17 <V453000> no, in this case I think it can work like this
12:27:26 <V453000> vehicles which need it to vary dont have livery overrides
12:27:26 <peter1138> if it's not variable you shouldn't be using cb36 for it
12:27:40 <V453000> those are only vehicles with powered wagons which seem to require the livery override
12:27:51 <V453000> well some vehicles have it variable
12:27:57 <V453000> if you see what I mean
12:28:06 <peter1138> you probably need to replicate the chain for the override
12:28:48 <V453000> I think I will actually just change the property of the item
12:28:55 <V453000> as it really is for just that one case of vehicles
12:29:00 <V453000> other trains wont get powered wagons anyway
12:29:16 <peter1138> seems to be a problem with nml
12:29:37 <peter1138> hiding the implementation may mean you don't get the most efficient code
12:30:02 <V453000> I dont expect my code to be clean tbh :D that would be outright utopistic in my case
12:32:01 <peter1138> when writing nfo you know what's going on cos you had to put loads of effort into writing it
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12:32:46 <V453000> nfo isnt for me I am afraid :) it looks like forest to me
12:32:53 <peter1138> i removed one church and my rating went from excellent to mediocre :p
12:33:54 <peter1138> if you use a preprocessor you can tokenise common keywords
12:35:13 <peter1138> what this games needs
12:35:17 <peter1138> is passengers dests
12:35:43 <V453000> the beauty of a passenger game is imo the ultimate freedom, making destinations takes that away
12:35:51 <peter1138> shuffling passengers from one side of the map to another (not that i'd ever do that *cough*) makes too much money
12:36:11 <peter1138> i don't have "passenger games"
12:36:18 <peter1138> i do bits of everything :p
12:36:38 <peter1138> although long distance passengers end up being most profitable
12:36:40 <V453000> even if you mix it, the freedom is important
12:36:44 <Eddi|zuHause> passengers make too much money because there are so many of them
12:36:47 <peter1138> so i end up pruning everything else
12:36:49 <V453000> towns add a very special element by which you can control traffic a lot
12:37:05 <V453000> -thing- making too much money is not really an issue
12:37:26 <V453000> reduce payment or increase decay for that
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12:39:14 <fonsinchen> I'll soon have a new version of cargodist ready for review.
12:39:30 <V453000> all that dest/dist/yacdwhatever does is telling the player "do this", while without it he can do the exact same thing with sufficient creativity
12:39:56 <peter1138> transfers can't do exactly what dests give you
12:40:01 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you can't do bus<->airport<->airport<->bus
12:40:38 <fonsinchen> The multi-hop passenger thing is the exact reason I started this project.
12:40:51 <V453000> you can make 2 stations
12:40:56 <V453000> systematically that doesnt change anything
12:41:24 <fonsinchen> You cannot deliver part of the passengers to the town and have another part change to a different plane.
12:41:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes it does, landing/takeoff is an enormous time effort for planes
12:41:25 <V453000> I find it just a solution of "dump vehicles somewhere, let them sort"
12:41:39 <V453000> well yes planes are stupid anyway
12:42:01 <fonsinchen> The sorting by vehicle routing is a hellishly complex thing. I don't want to do that for such simple tasks.
12:43:46 <Eddi|zuHause> just tell me he cheated on that, too!
12:47:10 <peter1138> hmm, can i make in-memory recolour sprites?
12:48:24 <peter1138> ooh i could cheat with a special slot id
12:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: question is, who is just trolling and who actually believes what they write?
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12:58:22 <Stimrol> hello, is it possible to somehow print out in the game witch config.file the game is using, like the location of the file. Because my 1.2.3. version seems to load the config file from nightly version I have also in different folder
13:02:06 <drac_boy> how're you stimrol? :)
13:09:36 <Stimrol> Eddi|zuHause, it only shows the tar files. This is strange, I can load the games from their folder and everything works fine, then if I load from Ubuntu Dash bar (on the left) it shows me errors regarding the config file. And I can see nothing wrong with the openttd.desktop file
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13:10:53 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [misc] /mnt/disk2/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/bin/lang/piglatin.lng is not a valid language file
13:11:47 <planetmaker> I *think* it was (re)moved?
13:14:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, like 3 years ago :p
13:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, this debug output is stupid, one should completely rearrange the debug levels
13:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and why is it scanning for AI tars 5 times?
13:16:59 <peter1138> __ln__, English only
13:17:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and what do these mean? dbg: [sprite] Fixing lru 120198, inuse=285752
13:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> they show up on debuglevel 3 on the title game
13:18:12 <Stimrol> This is so strange, why is my openttd starting version 1.2.3 and using my openttd.cfg from my nightly folder
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13:18:49 <peter1138> lru is least recently used
13:19:06 <peter1138> it keeps track of which sprites could be purged if it ran out of spritecache memory
13:19:22 <peter1138> it's probably not an optimal algorithm these days
13:19:34 <peter1138> since we have tons more sprites and a much larger sprite cache
13:20:22 <peter1138> debug level 2 then though, heh
13:23:26 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [grf] [newgrf/test/cets.grf:107158] SkipIf: Skipping 1 sprites, test was true <-- i somehow doubt these should be debug level 3 already
13:24:31 <peter1138> i removed the level 1 grf messages that industries made
13:25:43 <drac_boy> stimrol now you see why I never could understand how to even get more than one openttd folder working under any of the newer versions
13:26:15 <peter1138> __ln__, so is it possible to accidentally drive one of those things?
13:26:16 <drac_boy> but mm meh ... figures why I never share the game with other friends compared to patch or simutrans .. just rather not confuse them
13:27:47 <peter1138> how to get more than one version going:
13:27:52 <peter1138> put openttd into it
13:28:02 <__ln__> peter1138: so it seems. it has been speculated (though not in that article) that the driver left the train without setting the brakes on.
13:28:16 <drac_boy> peter1138 nope that does not even help with it still being treated as one single large app rather than 2+ seperate ones
13:28:42 <peter1138> no, just my default it uses a single place for your config
13:28:43 <Stimrol> drac_boy, it have always been running okey, because I have just made a new openttd.cfg file in each directory
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13:38:09 <Stimrol> peter1138, so I am right if I have a openttd.cfg in each folder then if you are in that folder and start /.openttd then it uses the openttd.cfg file located in that directory?
13:38:40 <peter1138> i dunno, i only ever use the config in ~/.openttd/
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13:41:31 <Stimrol> I have seperate folder for my nightly version and one for server version and all worked well until I started openttd today, and it looks to me that the orginal one is running the openttd.cfg from the nightly folder, this is so strange to me.
13:41:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Stimrol: maybe your desktop link doesn't set the working directory?
13:42:22 <Stimrol> that is what I suspected, but there is no link from it to the nightly version
13:43:53 <Stimrol> Eddi|zuHause, it should be this one .local/share/application/openttd.desktop ?
13:44:21 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know?
13:44:40 <Stimrol> Eddi|zuHause, that one shows --> Exec=/home/stimrol/.openttd/openttd
13:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that's not the working directory
13:45:44 <peter1138> you keep your openttd binary inside ~/.openttd? o_O
13:47:41 <Stimrol> extract the game to this location and then I extraced the nightly to nightly location on my computer
14:06:59 <peter1138> my m-i-l got me a box of carlsberg for xmas
14:07:15 <peter1138> i don't carlsberg, i gave it to a neighbour
14:07:42 <peter1138> just found they've left 4 bottles of ale on the doorstep, heh
14:10:16 <peter1138> i don't *drink* carlsberg
14:10:21 <peter1138> my keyboard is broken
14:11:30 <Pokka> nothing wrong with nouning as verb
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14:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/fileio_debug_levels.diff <-- preliminary debug level rework
14:14:25 *** andythenorth is now known as andythesouth
14:17:44 <andythesouth> maybe the poles switched?
14:18:03 <Pokka> wouldn't be the first time
14:18:06 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, anything else?
14:18:38 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: i haven't looked at the grf spam
14:18:40 <Pokka> and there was I all this time thinking your name was "Andy then Orth"
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14:19:20 <Pinkbeast> No, no, it's like mine - Pink B. East.
14:19:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, deal with one debug "task" at a time i guess
14:19:55 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: maybe the "found tar <blah> with <blah> files" could also be 4
14:20:59 <andythesouth> Pikka: I am now Andy Thes Outh o/c
14:21:15 <peter1138> dbg: [misc] /home/petern/ottd/trunk6/bin/lang/origveh.lng is not a valid language file
14:21:18 <peter1138> dbg: [misc] /home/petern/ottd/trunk6/bin/lang/piglatin.lng is not a valid language file
14:21:36 *** andythesouth is now known as andythewest
14:22:51 <peter1138> src/signs_gui.cpp: DEBUG(misc, 3, "Building sign list");
14:23:10 <peter1138> does that really need a debug message?
14:23:24 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar
14:24:27 <Stimrol> is there anyone here who is involved in the Autopilot project?
14:26:41 <Stimrol> thanks I will ask him my question
14:36:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that's probably wrong: src/window.cpp:2530: DEBUG(misc, 2, "Cursor: 0x%X (%d)", _cursor.sprite, _cursor.sprite);
14:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no idea how to trigger that
14:41:47 <Eddi|zuHause> wth does this mean? src/signal.cpp:156: DEBUG(misc, 0, "SignalSegment too complex. Set %s is full (maximum %d)", name, items);
14:42:51 <peter1138> too many signals in a single block
14:44:04 <Eddi|zuHause> err... src/order_cmd.cpp:1703: //DEBUG(misc, 3, "Triggered News Item for vehicle %d", v->index);
14:45:18 <peter1138> usererror("Tried to load too many sprites (#%d; max %d)", load_index, MAX_SPRITES);
14:45:24 <peter1138> anyone seen that recently? :p
14:45:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i get CETS to that point :p
14:46:39 <V453000> not-so-related question, is it possible to make a custom trigger? Like a trigger upon cargo refit order? Currently I have trigger upon servicing, but that apparently occurs after conditional order is done
14:47:49 <peter1138> hmm, colour remaps are 257 bytes... what's the first byte?
14:47:55 <peter1138> or the last byte, i suppose
14:48:00 <peter1138> no, first byte, cos it's skippe
14:49:30 <Pokka> for no explained reason
14:59:19 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: so, i updated the diff with listing the tar files at level 4 (listing files in tars was already level 6). also i think the line in window.cpp should just go. otherwise i think this is fine
14:59:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i haven't found anything that lists the files outside the tars, though
15:04:38 <fonsinchen> gah, C++ reverse iterators are a pain.
15:06:34 <fonsinchen> You can delete things from a list while iterating with forward iterators, but not with reverse ones.
15:07:04 <Eddi|zuHause> changing a list with active iterator sounds wrong on so many levels
15:09:24 <fonsinchen> Linked lists are designed to enable that
15:09:49 <fonsinchen> you can take out an element while only invalidating iterators that point to that specific element.
15:10:05 <fonsinchen> All other iterators stay valid. That's the nice thing about linked lists.
15:10:48 <Superuser> can someone plssss set up a server
15:10:55 <Superuser> something preferably blose to vanilla
15:11:15 <TinoDidriksen> You can't do that yourself?
15:11:40 <andythewest> paid server service?
15:11:49 <andythewest> "join my game for €1"
15:11:59 <andythewest> pay €2 and I'll let you win :P
15:12:02 <Superuser> but seriously, people are itching to play
15:12:12 <peter1138> there's plenty of servers
15:13:06 <andythewest> more servers than players innit?
15:13:07 <peter1138> i should probably restart mine seeing as how i trounced andythewest
15:13:20 *** andythewest is now known as andythenorth
15:13:26 <Superuser> I will love your forever peter1138
15:13:29 <andythenorth> we need a castle-building grf first
15:13:39 <andythenorth> the purpose of MP is to build the biggest castle
15:13:47 <Superuser> come on peter go go go
15:13:51 <andythenorth> we should be able to tunnel under castles
15:13:54 <andythenorth> then explode a train there
15:14:04 <Superuser> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
15:14:04 <peter1138> still plenty of time left
15:14:14 <Superuser> I'll do all manner of things to you if you do that
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15:14:30 <peter1138> andythenorth, is FIRS ready
15:16:30 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
15:16:45 <andythenorth> what noise does a drac_boy make?
15:17:17 <Superuser> okay, found someone who is able to do this
15:17:19 <peter1138> half dragon, half horse, half boy
15:17:24 <Superuser> how can we add the server to the metaserver's list?
15:17:35 <drac_boy> very funy andythenorth, you could just go with 'rawr!' :)
15:17:54 <peter1138> make sure server_advertise = true
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15:19:31 <Superuser> not dedicated server silly
15:19:39 <Superuser> this person is too stupid to use the command line
15:20:12 <Superuser> please help peter1138 I will be grateful forever
15:20:20 <Stimrol> I am getting errors from the binaries.openttd.org
15:20:21 <Superuser> you will be my hero
15:20:36 <peter1138> Internet (advertise)
15:25:38 <Belugas> was -18 this morning, with a strong wind
15:26:02 <Belugas> going outside to smoke? ARE YOU CRAZE?????????
15:26:55 <Pokka> yesterday was the hottest ever day in sydney
15:27:18 <andythenorth> power lines have melted in sydney
15:27:23 <andythenorth> here they are down for snow :P
15:27:31 <fonsinchen> TrueBrain: Would it help the build farm to build Cargodist if I set up a mercurial mirror for my git repository somehow?
15:27:31 <andythenorth> sydney has a plague of roos apparently
15:27:45 <__ln__> around -22°C here, -8°F
15:27:55 <andythenorth> Pokka: apparently a plaque yes
15:28:07 <andythenorth> 2 people I work with are off to Oz
15:28:10 <Belugas> __ln__< i sympathize completeley
15:28:13 <andythenorth> they've been told to stock up on roo repellent
15:28:18 <andythenorth> and drop bear helmets
15:28:27 <andythenorth> can get them at Heathrow if you ask
15:28:44 <__ln__> Belugas: i enjoy negative Fahrenheits
15:29:30 <Belugas> honestly, __ln__, I don't.
15:29:39 <Belugas> but if you like it, cool (huhuhhu) for you
15:32:49 <Pokka> imo drop bears are a terribly tired joke which serves no purpose but to identify the teller as a bore, but then I'm just the fun police.
15:33:32 <andythenorth> they still have fun value for those new to them :P
15:33:52 <andythenorth> maybe they're over
15:33:58 <andythenorth> pokka killed the fun :P
15:34:43 <Pokka> then again, I have the strange notion that telling people actual facts about australia instead of tired jokes is of greater value to both australia and the tellee. :)
15:35:55 <Pokka> I hope your collegues like heat, in any case :P
15:36:19 <Pokka> two of my father's sisters are coming out to visit in march, hopefully it will have cooled down a bit by then.
15:39:55 <Pokka> peter1138, new game, let's do this
15:47:45 <Pokka> with plane crashes off :)
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16:23:40 <andythenorth> peter1138: what rev?
16:26:30 <Pokka> 24917 or something andy
16:28:25 <peter1138> there is no new game yet
16:31:20 <Pokka> why does an aircraft coming out of the hangar on the commuter airport go all the way up to the first loading bay, if the nearer 3rd bay is free?
16:32:22 <andythenorth> because it's silly
16:32:30 <andythenorth> also some of the big airports block trivially
16:32:33 <andythenorth> even when bays are free
16:32:35 <drac_boy> pokka probably because its one single programming for all airports in name of "taxi off runaway, try #1 ... if taken check for #2 .. if #2 exists try #2"
16:32:49 <drac_boy> not perfect but thats apparently the way it seem to run
16:33:33 <Pokka> yes, "because olde airport statemachines smell" is the right answer
16:33:56 <Pokka> they'll be first up against the wall when the revolution comes
16:35:20 <drac_boy> pokka to be honest I do think the small airport has a bit of annoyance in that you can't taxi from hanger to loading spot without blocking the runaway :/
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16:47:27 <Eddi|zuHause> if that's the biggest problem you have with airports...
16:48:05 <peter1138> international airport is ridiculous
16:48:48 <andythenorth> intercontinental is much better :P
16:48:55 <peter1138> apparently the wind is different on either side of it
16:49:00 <peter1138> that's the one i meant
16:49:25 <Pinkbeast> _Something_'s got to be difficult in the use of aircraft. :-P
16:49:42 <andythenorth> they crash a lot
16:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> difficult != silly
16:49:53 <drac_boy> a lot? you're using the wrong ones then? :)
16:50:07 <andythenorth> in my FIRS games, airplanes are running supplies
16:50:15 <andythenorth> I don't want extra difficulty
16:50:16 <Pinkbeast> They crash a lot - and it takes 2 seconds to clone a new one from the crash which you can do with your giant pile of money from using aircraft.
16:50:29 <drac_boy> andythenorth then don't land 747's on short runaways? :)
16:50:37 <Pokka> no more giant than the pile from using trains
16:50:49 <peter1138> drac_boy, well they crash on large runways too
16:50:49 <andythenorth> it's difficult getting the right number of planes at an airport :P
16:50:55 <andythenorth> I don't want more difficult
16:51:07 <Pokka> it just seems so because you use them for passengers, and with default/most town sets passengers are an unlimited and reliably growing resource :)
16:51:12 <drac_boy> I've never ever had any crashes at all even although the difficulity settings have it enabled
16:51:16 <Pinkbeast> Oh, I don't know, with Nutracks you can blow away money on track upgrades for a while.
16:51:25 <andythenorth> try aircraft for cargo
16:51:26 <Pinkbeast> In-city trams are a bit free-money
16:51:35 <andythenorth> and we have these noise limit / airport limits :P
16:51:47 <Pinkbeast> Actually where I have used them in the past (in the UKRS1 days) I used them exclusively for valuables
16:51:51 <andythenorth> and some airports block
16:52:16 <Pokka> in this ole multiplayer game, using av8 and ukrs2
16:52:28 <Pokka> I make about 1.3m a year each from trains and planes
16:52:46 <Pokka> trains running cost is 275k
16:52:53 <Pokka> planes running cost is 375k
16:52:55 <Pinkbeast> ... depending on which bit of the interface you ask :-/
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16:53:01 <Pokka> so they're not exactly money printers :)
16:53:20 <andythenorth> Pokka: I think the problem people have is 'aircraft are not trains' :P
16:53:34 <andythenorth> that disturbs the foamers
16:53:41 <andythenorth> and there's nothing to optimise either
16:53:42 <Pinkbeast> Well, that too because trains are best hem hem
16:53:47 <andythenorth> which disturbs the optimisers
16:53:48 <Pokka> what about the planespotters though?
16:54:02 <Pokka> who want every slight variant and every livery
16:54:07 <andythenorth> but happy people don't whine, right? :P
16:54:09 <Pokka> of every aircraft that flew between 1995 and today
16:54:15 <andythenorth> Pokka: they have WAS no?
16:54:16 <Pinkbeast> But one might ask what the relative cost of the infrastructure was for the trains and planes
16:54:38 <peter1138> property maintence, 430 :S
16:54:46 <drac_boy> pinkbeast pretty much yeah, in my games it costs a lot just to build one single airport and you don't want to ask about the price for something like a Douglas DC-9 :)
16:55:19 <Pokka> almost half my property maintanence cost is airports
16:55:25 <peter1138> 80% of infrastructure cost is airports
16:55:26 <Pokka> and that's with av8's reduced costs
16:55:29 <peter1138> but it's still hardly any
16:55:48 <peter1138> intercontinental should cost loads
16:55:57 <Pokka> intercontinental shouldn't exist :)
16:56:14 <drac_boy> that brings up another question related to what I just said...why is basecost not bundled in anyway?
16:56:25 <Pinkbeast> I tend to build airships because well airships and then want something to do with my airports
16:58:20 <andythenorth> intercontinental should be available in 1965 :P
16:59:44 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we need to scrap airports and rethink them from scratch
17:01:26 <Eddi|zuHause> like have a reserved area, and on it you place loading bays, runways, and taxiways like rail/road
17:02:25 <drac_boy> anyway I need to start some lunch as usual
17:02:36 <Eddi|zuHause> noise level will limit the number/length of runways
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17:06:28 <peter1138> they'd want copy & pasta
17:08:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd want taxiway-bridges for sure :p
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17:34:25 <Eddi|zuHause> ... i don't think so :p
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18:11:23 <andythenorth> so where do I get 24917?
18:11:27 <Alberth> hi, thanks for the PM with the lego rct topic :)
18:11:27 <andythenorth> can't self compile
18:17:05 <andythenorth> peter1138: where is server?
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18:45:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24921 /trunk/src/lang (4 files) (2013-01-18 18:45:44 UTC)
18:45:55 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:56 <DorpsGek> traditional_chinese - 2 changes by siu238X
18:45:57 <DorpsGek> danish - 36 changes by Hellwing
18:45:58 <DorpsGek> hebrew - 2 changes by taleinat
18:45:59 <DorpsGek> icelandic - 1 changes by Stimrol
18:49:07 <peter1138> #149695 0x000000000085efc6 in main (argc=4, argv=0x7fffffffe338) at /home/petern/ottd/git/wc1/src/os/unix/unix.cpp:275
18:49:13 <peter1138> mind have a bit of recursion going on there :p
18:54:58 <peter1138> hmm, i suppose to avoid the newgrf scan on startup we'd need to cache action 8 and action 14 along with some other bits?
18:58:37 <andythenorth> action 14 is already cached somewhere somehow
18:58:53 <andythenorth> changing action 14 stuff requires a restart of openttd when developing grfs
18:58:58 <andythenorth> is my experience
19:00:25 <frosch123> peter1138: yes, a cache of filedate&size -> grfid&md5sum, and a cache of grfid&md5sum -> action8&14&last-used-parameters
19:00:46 <frosch123> andythenorth: it requires a rescan
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19:19:34 <andythenorth> peter1138: is that actual orange :o
19:19:41 <andythenorth> not orange-that-is-yellow?
19:23:22 <peter1138> injected over the first remap sprite
19:24:21 <peter1138> but means that old favourite of millions of colours is possible without too many complex sums in the blitter
19:25:24 <Supercheese> ALL the colors.jpg
19:25:26 <peter1138> only issue is 8bpp compatibility :p
19:26:19 <peter1138> (this requires a 32bpp blitter of course)
19:27:07 <peter1138> hmm, could specify a fallback 8bpp remap
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19:28:09 <Supercheese> There shouldn't be any performance hit for using a 32bpp blitter on Windows, right?
19:28:30 <peter1138> over 8bpp? possibly, possibly not
19:30:16 <peter1138> if you run it fullscreen in 8bpp mode, then it'll be a hit
19:31:52 <Supercheese> Fullscreen, eew, windowed much better
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19:36:00 <__ln__> what, doesn't windowed mode need a 8->32 conversion whereas fullscreen may not?
19:36:30 <peter1138> well if you run your desktop in 256 colours...
19:36:54 <peter1138> but by default fullscreen switches to 8bpp
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19:37:17 <peter1138> (which is what causes problems with the background rotator, and dodgy drivers which don't support 8bpp any more)
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19:37:26 <peter1138> only on windows, btw
19:38:01 <peter1138> X11 can't be switched to 8bpp without changing the config, iirc
19:38:17 <peter1138> 8bpp DGA mode used to be astoundingly fast though
19:38:22 <peter1138> that's how i used to run ottd
19:38:38 <peter1138> hmm, maybe it could switch to 8bpp for DGA only
19:38:53 <peter1138> but DGA is not supported these days because "opengl is better" :S
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20:06:06 <peter1138> when is a window's OnTimeout called?
20:06:23 <peter1138> yes, that's what the documentation says :S
20:07:37 <peter1138> initial timeout duration is 7
20:08:01 <peter1138> and what is a timeout?
20:08:15 <Rubidium> "call this function after X ticks"
20:13:44 <frosch123> it's the time which button stay lowered
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20:47:37 <ande> looking for some advice on patches to load to get a good OTTD experience
20:48:18 <ande> sorry if its a numpty one, ive just downloaded the latest 1.3 patch and im lost in all the mods
20:48:24 <planetmaker> getting good openttd experience is best done with the game without add-ons ;-)
20:48:56 <planetmaker> and... OpenTTD is NOT a patch.
20:49:14 <ande> i have been playing 0.5.1 for ages, loved it but the AI was a bit shoddy in places
20:49:19 <planetmaker> and as to giving advice on 'good' add-ons: that's going to fail as everyone likes different ones
20:49:40 <planetmaker> where add-ons can be NewGRFs, AIs and game scripts alike
20:50:14 <ande> appreciate that, i guess as a boring normal user it would be nice for things to be bundled, as i havent a clue what half the stuff is
20:50:34 <planetmaker> ande, and... how should it be decided what to bundle?
20:50:57 <planetmaker> Again the same: everyone likes different stuff. That's why it's available from online content... so that people can get what they like
20:51:46 <ande> do changes you download apply instantly?
20:52:12 <planetmaker> mind that not every NewGRF might be available from the online content
20:52:27 <planetmaker> and... download doesn't mean active for next game. And never active for existing games
20:52:41 <planetmaker> NewGRFs need be configured *before* creating a new game (map).
20:52:43 <ande> in your opinion which is best AI?
20:52:49 <planetmaker> And then they can't be changed without trouble
20:53:24 <ande> ahhh thanks... maybe i will just find a challenging AI and be kleaving the GRFs
20:53:46 <planetmaker> so with newgrfs: don't be afraid to create a few combinations just for a quick test, whether you can transport all cargos, whether you like what you see. And just discard the new game and re-configure newgrfs and re-generate a new map till satisfied
20:54:14 <ande> awesome i will give it a go. thanks
20:54:20 <planetmaker> AIs... they vary. admiralAI, nocab, cluelessplus, simpleAI... they usually do well
20:54:31 <planetmaker> but others aren't bad either. And depends on map, ...
20:55:35 <planetmaker> salut Alberth :-)
20:55:42 <planetmaker> (and thx for the link)
20:56:08 <Alberth> I have a menu of standard wiki links for many occassions ;)
20:57:15 <Alberth> also, the NML plurals table seems wrong, not sure who should be blamed :p
20:58:37 <frosch123> there are plural tables in nfo wiki, nml wiki, ottd wiki, strgen output, ottd source, ...
21:01:05 <Alberth> but the numbers match :p
21:02:08 <frosch123> the best source is usually just looking at ottd langfiles
21:02:14 <frosch123> after all they seem to work somewhat
21:10:37 <planetmaker> well. NML page on lang files has to be slightly different than OpenTTD lang files. As NewGRFs differ slightly from the real thing
21:10:59 <planetmaker> but... ofc not wrt what plural forms mean...
21:11:41 <Alberth> ##plural 10 gets decoded as 16 (ie it reads 0x10)
21:12:12 <Alberth> which is a problem if NUM_PLURAL_FORMS = 12 :)
21:12:48 <frosch123> haha, not everything is hex :)
21:16:27 <peter1138> anyway, my concept works, now i can't be bothered to bring it to completion :p
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21:21:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that problem :)
21:21:20 <peter1138> well... is it worth it?
21:21:49 <peter1138> there are some... "issues"
21:22:26 <peter1138> (OnTimeout() worked well enough though :))
21:26:29 <peter1138> hmm, test with zbase :D
21:27:19 <peter1138> no surprise, works fine
21:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> so what was it that you're actually doing?
21:27:58 <peter1138> adding more than 16 colours
21:28:03 <peter1138> for no particular reason
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21:30:09 <peter1138> hmm, dbsetxl doesn't use any CC does it?
21:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> well, in some cargo wagons i think
21:32:17 <peter1138> heh i think most newgrf trains are 2cc or non-cc
21:40:32 <frosch123> i guess those who try to do cargo recolouring avoid 2cc
21:40:41 <frosch123> to not need thousands of recolour sprites
21:40:48 <frosch123> but then, who does that actually
21:41:37 <peter1138> most likely with bit 14 not set
21:41:43 <peter1138> then it's just a single remap
21:41:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: germanrv set :)
21:42:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: heard of it, never used it
21:42:33 <frosch123> it's said to be one of those sets with only buses
21:42:38 <peter1138> it's also possible to load an RGB remap via newgrf, but also no provision for 8bpp fallback
21:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it has three trucks now :)
21:42:56 <peter1138> although i guess i could just include the 8bpp remap first
21:43:03 <peter1138> waste a bit of space but make the code simpler
21:43:41 <frosch123> hmm, is there such thing like a alpha remap?
21:43:42 <peter1138> 00 <256 bytes of colour indices> <256 4-byte RGB values>
21:43:54 <peter1138> actually it is RGBA if you do that
21:43:57 <peter1138> but i dunno what happens :p
21:44:01 <frosch123> like blending a fixed colour with a company colour
21:44:58 <frosch123> i mean if you use a custom recolour sprite format
21:45:06 <frosch123> you might also add other features than just replacing colours
21:45:46 <peter1138> i'll have to see what alpha does
21:46:08 <peter1138> at the moment i guess it just gets combined with the original alpha
21:50:48 <frosch123> hmm, if the original sprite is 32bpp, you have 255 colours you can just freely reassign
21:51:08 <frosch123> palette anim does not make a lot of sense with rgb recolour
21:51:28 <peter1138> yeah you could do that
21:51:48 <frosch123> and since you can still change the intensity via the 32bpp thingie, you can use all 255 recolour "slots" for different saturations and hues
21:52:32 <peter1138> i don't think the 32bpp rendering artists really understand the remapping though
21:52:41 <frosch123> hmm.. though maybe it would be more useful to not use the original rgb for intensity, but use it as rgb for mixing with the alpha of the recolour
21:54:16 <peter1138> well if you're using the mask then the original rgb is lost currently
21:56:35 <frosch123> peter1138: yeah, but if you can specify your own palette for recolouring, you do not need the intensity thing
21:57:03 <frosch123> instead you could smoothly blend the vehicle colour with the cc
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21:59:52 <peter1138> hmm, i've broken something :S
22:01:17 <frosch123> andy just left, i guess he took the duct tape with him
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22:21:41 <V453000> like the 3 options of trains
22:22:00 <V453000> because the speed random switch seems to be independent of the power switch
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22:23:00 <V453000> I am testing with speed 230
22:23:12 <V453000> all trains speed 230 get 7000 or 14000 power
22:23:16 <V453000> not a single 10 000 so far
22:23:22 <V453000> which I find uber weird
22:23:31 <planetmaker> V453000, callback units are not metric. They're NFO units
22:23:46 <planetmaker> which is some weired conversion factor into metric
22:24:07 <V453000> well yeah, it doesnt show as 14000 but as like 14123 or something
22:24:11 <peter1138> why's it stopped working
22:24:11 <V453000> but that isnt the problem
22:24:27 <V453000> the issue is that I get both 7000 and 14000 trains with 230 speed
22:24:34 <V453000> while they should have only 14 000 always
22:24:47 <V453000> if the speed random switch is dependent on the power switch
22:25:26 <V453000> and furthermore, I didnt get a single 10 000 train at 230 speed, tested already like 100 trains
22:25:55 <planetmaker> why should that be related, V453000 ?
22:26:05 <planetmaker> I don't see where you make them use the same random numbers
22:26:22 <V453000> I thought that is what the dependence does?
22:27:01 <planetmaker> or rather: you don't set any triggers for it
22:27:10 <planetmaker> yes, I missed that line. But you set no trigger
22:27:22 <V453000> I have one in the graphics block, is that correct?
22:27:52 <V453000> well I had same triggers previously, I was told I can remove them as they dont do anything as it is just dependent on the first results
22:27:54 <planetmaker> same trigger for power and speed, I'd say
22:28:29 <planetmaker> aha... then I don't know. And I'm too tired to investigate today, sorry
22:28:48 <planetmaker> so... good night nonetheless :D
22:28:55 <V453000> I think I even tried that, same results ... trying again
22:29:01 <V453000> trying to add more random triggers to graphics block
22:29:25 <planetmaker> I meant in the random_switch of the speed switch
22:29:31 <planetmaker> you have no bitmask set there
22:29:37 <V453000> yeah I know, that I tried originally
22:31:40 <V453000> random_trigger: monowtf4_power; random_trigger: monowtf4_speed; probably fixes it :d
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22:56:38 <Supercheese> French... people? Here in this channel?
22:56:52 <Supercheese> Your question is very generic...
22:57:26 <topher> I am trying to install Patch Chill Pack. but when I extract the zip and I run openttd he displays error
22:57:53 <frosch123> somewhen there was a openttd.fr site
22:58:24 <Supercheese> Seems the latest ChillPP failed to build on the compile server
22:59:44 <Supercheese> ChillPP is older than version 1.2.3, IIRC
22:59:58 <frosch123> there is no such thing as "chillpp for vesion 1.2.3"
23:00:10 <frosch123> there is "chillpp" and there is "1.2.3"
23:00:21 <topher> ok ty for the information
23:00:22 <frosch123> they are two separate things
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23:16:45 * topher slaps frosch123 around a bit with a large trout
23:17:44 *** topher was kicked by DorpsGek (bah, fish)
continue to next day ⏵
