IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-11-14
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08:40:14 <Eddi|zuHause> baaa way too early...
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08:57:04 <planetmaker> good morning, Eddi|zuHause :-)
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12:52:04 <NGC3982> It's a good day for traffic in Sweden.
12:57:14 <__ln__> Driving on the left side again?
13:01:00 <Flygon> Real men drive on the left side
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13:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the left side is not the right side
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14:11:24 <Eddi|zuHause> where's glx, anyway? :)
14:11:33 <V453000> just a command to get a map on the server
14:11:37 <V453000> obviously wrong channel :)
14:19:20 <NGC3982> I guess making each curve > the length of a train would be more effective.
14:19:32 <frosch123> did you build the platforms in two separate crossing parts intentionally?
14:19:54 <NGC3982> Yes, haven't tried it before.
14:20:18 <frosch123> i mean, the obvious solution would be to all build them in NW-SE direction
14:20:53 <NGC3982> Normally i'd do that.
14:20:57 <frosch123> currently whenever something is loading in NW-SE, it blocks all entries to NE-SW
14:21:17 <frosch123> because the path extents over the end of the station over the whole junction
14:21:25 <V453000> bridges arent an enemy btw
14:21:34 <NGC3982> And i just noticed a new problem.
14:21:48 <NGC3982> V453000: Yes they are.
14:22:28 <NGC3982> V453000: I simply don't like them. :)
14:24:06 <V453000> well endless amount of PBS junctions wont solve most of your jams
14:25:22 <V453000> (by that I mean you will need to use bridges/tunnels sooner or later)
14:25:23 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: so pm got away safely?
14:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> let's hope so :)
14:29:12 * drac_boy still thinks about my effective tunnel+flyover junction for a busy 2-platform passenger station and chuckle at how it would had been more wieldy in ottd with the lack of portal rails and programmed signals
14:29:27 <drac_boy> one day when they finally implent it..I'll have to share some ottd screenshot
14:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> "portal rails" do not change junction topology
14:43:54 <Eddi|zuHause> they just help you save some space
14:48:24 <drac_boy> well actually it kinda does when ottd need a slower S curve and 2 more tiles space .. which doesn't exactly help fast train movements
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14:50:34 <drac_boy> at least I'll pass ottd for one thing even if its not quite updated anymore... being able to share rails+stations
14:51:02 * drac_boy wonders what a flying fox is
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15:46:26 <andythenorth> most of the ideas for electricity (including some I've had)
15:46:36 <andythenorth> are just variations on "MOAR is better"
15:47:03 <andythenorth> in vanilla game electricity would probably just be more tedious crap
15:47:17 <andythenorth> in GS....it could be quite interesting
15:47:33 <andythenorth> wtf doesn't autorail also auto-signal?
15:47:45 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm of the firm conclusion that electricity should be outside of the transportation game
15:47:46 <andythenorth> default = one way PBS, in the direction of drag
15:48:02 <Eddi|zuHause> tried ctrl+drag?
15:48:31 <andythenorth> ctrl-drag removes track
15:48:40 <andythenorth> (with autorail selected)
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15:59:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth, you can drag signals just well. But it's a separate step
15:59:32 <andythenorth> maybe it shouldn't be
15:59:41 <andythenorth> pretty certain we'd have got gold last night in NoCarGoal
15:59:47 <andythenorth> if it wasn't for signalling :P
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16:55:19 <NGC3982> V453000: I had to make way for compromise.
16:55:25 * NGC3982 uses the bloody bridges.
16:55:43 <Yexo> <NGC3982> "GS"? <- GoalScript
16:59:25 <NGC3982> The bridges does not contribute to "it" being a mess.
16:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that is an abomination :)
16:59:40 <NGC3982> It's a mess, since i have no control on when a dead-lock happends.
17:00:11 <MNIM> oh yes. when you put it like that.
17:00:12 <Eddi|zuHause> you have deadlocks because the entry line crosses the exit line
17:00:57 <MNIM> now that is what I call a bit too complicated :P
17:01:54 <MNIM> whoops. hope I did not just crash him :d
17:01:54 <Eddi|zuHause> 500kB is not huge... 12MB is "huge": www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Loisachkirchen%20Transport,%2013.%20Apr%202027.png
17:02:08 <MNIM> eddi: I know, but some people disagree
17:02:56 <MNIM> I suppose I could have removed 'huge'.
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17:04:03 <NGC3982> That's one great build.
17:05:53 <MNIM> I like how you did the intersections in that one. looks like something I would build :P
17:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the intersections are somewhat "grown"
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17:08:51 <MNIM> it's sad I lost that game where I had a 3-way intersection in the middle of a town with a station worked into it.
17:08:58 <MNIM> now that was what I call spaghetti.
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17:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> so... need a new old game to play :(
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17:18:53 * NGC3982 recently started playing Rollercoaster Tycoon again.
17:19:03 <NGC3982> Roller< space >tycoon.
17:28:08 <DanMacK> Haven't played that in years
17:28:46 <DanMacK> Its coming out next year for android apparently
17:35:45 <NGC3982> Oh. That sounds nice.
17:37:33 <DanM> Should be interesting to see how they do it
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17:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i never played that game
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18:24:01 <andythenorth> Yexo: the original FIRS idea was that *selected* industries would increase production if supplied with electricity
18:24:14 <andythenorth> these would be power hungry industries like aluminium plant
18:24:28 <andythenorth> my intention was never to provide power lines and other crap
18:25:01 <andythenorth> but rather check for a nearby power plant that was producing electricity (this requires ability for industries to read each other's permanent storage, which is not available)
18:25:29 <andythenorth> unconvinced of benefits tbh
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18:32:37 <supermop> that way is better thanb transmission lines
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18:41:40 <Yexo> andythenorth: I am mostly trying to get people in that topic to think about what they want to add and why
18:45:47 <planetmaker> I *could* imagine two other ways electricity comes into play:
18:46:08 <planetmaker> a) via game script which monitors delivery to power plants and only then allows to grow nearby towns
18:46:41 <planetmaker> b) via extension of industry specs as a special kind of fields where power plants grow power lines like farms grow fields (of course much different shape)
18:46:58 <planetmaker> the latter would be purely eye candy w/o further effect
18:46:59 <Yexo> a) a game script can already do that, no need to introduce electricity or an energy net or whatever for that
18:47:26 <Yexo> b) I'm not perse against that, as long as the goal is clear: pure eye candy
18:47:35 <planetmaker> it would just need the actual script and have people believe that they use electricity :-)
18:48:04 <planetmaker> I consider b) as one implementation of more generalized fields. And fields - in my understanding - can always be built over
18:50:02 <planetmaker> (thus b) would also require a NewGRF being written)
18:52:39 <andythenorth> Yexo: why think about what to add? :) MOAR IS BETTER! No?
18:52:57 <andythenorth> more building, more routing. More micromanagement
18:53:18 <andythenorth> the interesting issue comes when your coal mine won't produce coal because it has no electricity :P
18:53:49 <andythenorth> planetmaker: (a) is valid and we should write a GS with power generation as the goal
18:54:43 <planetmaker> it would fit well IMHO into one of the town growth scripts. As added and / or optional challange
18:54:46 <kero> actually, in the reality, a coal mine doesn't need electricity to produce coal
18:55:16 <Alberth> yeah, mines are driven by pure man-power :)
18:55:45 <kero> essentially, yes. They produced coal for all the 19. century, without electricity
18:55:46 <andythenorth> coal mines probably have on-site power generation :P
18:55:56 <andythenorth> but if a coal mine doesn't need electricity, which industries do? It starts to sound quite faceted
18:55:59 <planetmaker> nah. They get all light and power by blowing up one dynamite after the other ;-)
18:56:41 <Alberth> dynamite is good for pneumatic power :)
18:57:16 <kero> anyway, just as side note: I like a lot the improvments in OTTD, but I'm not sure that electricity has its place as it
18:57:32 <kero> technically speaking, it's not a resource that you transport
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18:58:03 <andythenorth> I think it's pretty valid as an effect arising from the core gameplay
18:58:14 <andythenorth> I think connecting up power has nothing to do with core gameplay
18:58:23 <andythenorth> if those distinctions make sense :)
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19:55:27 <V453000> feature request: proper error messages; e.g. "Local authority are assholes; they gave you a quest to ravage and recreate local flora for which they will be slightly grateful."
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19:56:09 <planetmaker> what's wrong with "they don't allow you to build"?
19:56:27 <planetmaker> how is the current one in need of improvement?
19:56:37 <V453000> doesnt state they are assholes
19:56:50 <planetmaker> ah, true that ;-)
19:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> in no reply whatsoever from a city authority you will ever read the word "asshole" :p
19:57:23 <planetmaker> but they aren't. They're burocrats who got strongly lobbied by greenpeace
19:57:39 <Alberth> you could make a new translation :p
19:57:51 <planetmaker> like luxury trips to tropical islands for a "seminar" etc
19:58:06 <planetmaker> on environmental protection strategies
19:58:12 <V453000> well Eddi|zuHause this is a message from my secretary which was communicating with the authorities, so in such a message ... :P
19:58:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean like insurance agents travelling to budapest? :p
19:58:30 <frosch123> planetmaker: tropical islands?
19:58:38 <frosch123> i thought east europe is more popular?
19:59:00 <planetmaker> frosch123, yes... but I didn't want to tell V that the planes actually go to his home town :-P
19:59:03 <frosch123> yeah, what eddi said
19:59:26 <planetmaker> I thought VW's planes went to Prague?
20:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> VW is not an insurance agency
20:00:15 <planetmaker> nor a local authority. Except maybe around my home region
20:00:21 <frosch123> planetmaker: wasn't vw about brazil?
20:00:34 <planetmaker> maybe that also ;-)
20:00:49 <Eddi|zuHause> no, VW is in argentina
20:01:03 <Eddi|zuHause> or was that BMW?
20:01:15 <planetmaker> VW has a big subsidy in Brazil
20:01:22 <frosch123> hmm, google says india
20:02:09 <Alberth> I am pretty sure you can buy both a VW and a BMW in both Brazil and in India :p
20:02:36 <V453000> I dont live in Prague pm :P
20:02:59 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway there was a large german cooperation which "expanded" to argentina in the 1950s
20:03:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and in the 1970s under the dictatorship some labour union people "disappeared"
20:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and several famous german "immigrants" to argentina worked there
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20:11:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i know... it was Mercedes Benz
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22:46:54 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24736 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:46:49 UTC)
22:46:55 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: The third parameter of Textbuf::Initialize only makes sense if it is smaller than the second one, also its unit is not pixels.
22:50:17 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24737 /trunk/src (textbuf.cpp textbuf_type.h) (2012-11-14 22:50:11 UTC)
22:50:21 <DorpsGek> -Add: Textbuf::Assign and Textbuf::Print.
22:50:34 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24738 /trunk/src (15 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:17 UTC)
22:50:39 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove Textbuf::Initialize in favour of a constructor.
22:50:55 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause: Fascinating.
22:51:01 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24739 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:21 UTC)
22:51:08 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Simplify some code by using Textbuf::Assign.
22:51:11 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24740 /trunk/src (11 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:26 UTC)
22:51:12 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove duplicate members from QueryStringBaseWindow and directly use QueryString.
22:51:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24741 trunk/src/core/smallmap_type.hpp (2012-11-14 22:50:30 UTC)
22:51:16 <DorpsGek> -Add: Const-methods to SmallMap.
22:51:19 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24742 /trunk/src (16 files in 3 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:35 UTC)
22:51:20 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Remove QueryStringBaseWindow and store QueryStrings per widget instead.
22:51:23 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24743 /trunk/src (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:39 UTC)
22:51:24 <DorpsGek> -Change: Unify the behaviour of ESC in filter editboxes.
22:51:27 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24744 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-11-14 22:50:42 UTC)
22:51:28 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Handle clicking on editboxed also via QueryString.
22:51:31 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24745 /trunk/src (misc_gui.cpp widget.cpp) (2012-11-14 22:50:46 UTC)
22:51:32 <DorpsGek> -Codechange: Draw complete editbox via QueryString.
22:51:35 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24746 /trunk/src (3 files) (2012-11-14 22:50:49 UTC)
22:51:36 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove weird lowering of editboxes.
22:51:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24747 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:53 UTC)
22:51:40 <DorpsGek> -Fix: Some editboxes had a different colour than the rest of the window.
22:51:43 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24748 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:50:56 UTC)
22:51:45 <DorpsGek> -Add: Clear button to all editboxes.
22:51:48 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24749 /trunk (6 files in 2 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:51:01 UTC)
22:51:49 <DorpsGek> -Add: GUI icons for delete to the left/right.
22:51:52 <DorpsGek> Commit by frosch :: r24750 /trunk/src (4 files in 4 dirs) (2012-11-14 22:51:05 UTC)
22:51:53 <DorpsGek> -Cleanup: Remove old special clear filter button from signs list.
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