IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-10-30
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00:29:35 <Afdal> Hey any developers around
00:45:49 <krinn> ask your question you'll see
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01:36:06 <quiggle> Hello...is everyone already aware that the downloads on the website are not working?
01:36:59 <quiggle> all of them as far as i can tell
01:37:10 <peter1138> cos it works for me
01:37:25 <quiggle> i get a custom 404 page
01:39:23 <quiggle> Error response Error code 404. Message: File Not Found. Error code explanation: 404 = Nothing matches the given URI.
01:43:39 <peter1138> i guess so, but the people in control of that are not awake at this time
01:44:05 <quiggle> it was this way last night too
01:44:18 <quiggle> er, i mean, roughly 18 hours ago
01:45:24 <quiggle> well...as long as someone who can deal with it gets notified i guess
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05:38:45 <Rubidium> I see no reason why quiggle's download redirects to https. As far as I am aware we do not have https binaries
05:40:33 <Rubidium> thus that smells like something which his browser does, and after going to https://binaries it will redirect to secure/binaries which I doubt has a connection to the balancer, or is that connected to the balancer?
05:41:47 <Rubidium> even then... both the https and non-https work for me (tm)
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05:55:22 <Rubidium> might there be issues redirecting to the US mirrors?
05:55:28 <Rubidium> I'll leave it for TrueBrain ;)
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06:11:35 <Joseph_Fritz> Anybody wants to see my basement?
06:13:53 <Joseph_Fritz> It is time to wake up, jackasses.
06:14:02 <Joseph_Fritz> 'Nam won't burn itself.
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07:05:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: for sure I don't serve https redirects, so I am totally puzzled too
07:07:10 <TrueBrain> I am rather surprised the https version works too btw :D
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07:32:56 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: I've just checked and the HTTPS Anywhere extension has a ruleset for OpenTTD. I guess binaries worked by accident before.
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07:55:56 <Markk> NGC3982: Oi mate, I lost that when I was 14.
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08:05:21 <NGC3982> Markk: I usually save those jokes for Ghlargh, and i see it was for a reason ;_;.
08:19:44 <NGC3982> I see that there has been some hassle with the site this night.
08:20:07 * NGC3982 thinks it has something to do with the content error he noticed yester evening.
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08:28:24 <peter1138> so what is this figure?
08:31:04 <NGC3982> It's a fantastic number, when actually exploring the pixelation of the lattice spacing.
08:31:12 <NGC3982> Here is the full paper
08:31:51 <peter1138> sorry i'm not that bright
08:32:09 <NGC3982> Im not actually aware of the simulation results, or purpose.
08:34:03 <NGC3982> It's just that the energy density in the universe is fantastic
08:34:23 <NGC3982> And the energy of empty space completely obliterates everything else
08:34:45 <NGC3982> It's seriosly fucking up science (to quote Lawrence Krauss)
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08:55:44 <benny> Who is in charge of finger.openttd.org?
09:00:52 <blathijs> benny: Better to just ask the real question you have :-)
09:01:23 <blathijs> benny: And TrueBrain is our main server admin, FWIW
09:06:40 * NGC3982 prepares a no-brainer pun
09:11:25 <benny> blathijs: I'm writing a simple bash script that installs OpenTTD for a school project. The user is prompted for which version of openttd to install, and i'd like some sort of way to verify that this version actually exists.
09:12:10 <benny> I was thinking an always-updated list of every openttd version available on the binaries server (nightlies too), but there might be a simpler way to do it.
09:12:30 <blathijs> benny: Can't you just find out if a version exists by trying to download it?
09:14:31 <benny> I'm such a goddamn genious
09:28:03 <benny> Yup, checking HTTP response codes with curl works.
09:28:14 <benny> Thanks, can't believe I didn't think of that.
09:35:55 <Ammler> benny: you might also use finger.openttd.org to get latest stable/nightly/whatever
09:37:40 <benny> The three first lines in versions.txt?
09:39:18 <benny> Ammler: Oh I see, versions.txt has everything.
10:14:23 <Terkhen> benny did you check OpenTTD auto updater?
10:14:47 <Terkhen> IIRC it has a thread on the general subforum
10:19:49 <benny> Terkhen: Windows-only and GUI-based afaik
10:20:01 <benny> Terkhen: And I'm writing this as a school assignment
10:20:12 *** benny is now known as benny|recess
10:21:06 <planetmaker> benny|recess, you know auto update or autostart?
10:23:14 <planetmaker> ah, Terkhen mentioned it already :-)
10:23:40 <planetmaker> but there's autoupdate which is a bash script :-)
10:23:57 * NGC3982 sends his horde of women after PM
10:24:14 <krinn> When doing GSCompanyMode i feel like i get the company event too, ending with getting GSEvent+ each event the company i have switch too, wrong ?
10:24:36 <NGC3982> TrueBrain: Im getting the same error today as yesterday.
10:25:08 <NGC3982> On a new computer, on another network
10:25:50 <NGC3982> Oh, sorry. The second time i tried, it worked as usual again.
10:25:57 <krinn> NGC3982, lol got it too
10:30:29 <planetmaker> hm, Ammler, where have you hidden the source for autostart?
10:30:59 <planetmaker> I fail to find it anywhere, neither the old svn nor in a hg repo
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10:48:11 <benny|recess> planetmaker: there is?
10:48:16 *** benny|recess is now known as benny
10:48:51 <benny> planetmaker: Oh, I didn't see the link.
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10:59:04 <benny> krinn: Thanks, some good help in there.
11:05:28 <benny> Ammler: Talk about putting me to shame..
11:06:59 <Ammler> the script was done as I had no clue about bash :-P
11:07:54 <benny> No clue about bash, this?
11:09:25 <benny> I'll just go cry in a corner.
11:09:27 <Ammler> but I still use it :-)
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11:12:54 <Ammler> devzone should be able to host git repos too, btw...
11:17:24 <benny> do i register at dev.openttdcoop.org?
11:17:43 <planetmaker> only you can tell, whether you do ;-)
11:18:03 <planetmaker> but of course you're very welcome to do so
11:18:34 <benny> do i have to register at dev.openttdcoop.org in order to login to hg.openttdcoop.org?
11:18:49 <planetmaker> download is feasible without account
11:19:52 <planetmaker> I mean... why would we want to force people to register, if they just want to retrieve a file?
11:20:09 <benny> i could put the repo for my bash script on there
11:20:15 <benny> im trying to figure this git stuff out
11:22:59 <planetmaker> yes. Then you need to register. As upload of course requires an account
11:23:21 <planetmaker> otherwise anyone could update an arbitrary project. That of course is not wanted
11:23:58 <planetmaker> By default we host git repos. But in principle git, svn and bazaar are also feasible
11:24:13 <benny> okay, so i take it dev.openttdcoop.org and hg.openttdcoop.org are related
11:24:21 <planetmaker> he.... by default we host mercurial repos ;-)
11:25:40 <planetmaker> dev.o.o is the redmine project management interface while hg.o.o is mercurial's native ...
11:26:09 <planetmaker> dev.o.o is the redmine project management interface while hg.o.o is mercurial's native ...
11:27:16 <planetmaker> well, generally things on openttdcoop.org are related ;-)
11:27:26 <planetmaker> dev.o.o is the project management interface
11:27:45 <planetmaker> hg.o.o is just a web interface for accessing repos. Not needed really as also accessible via dev.o.o
11:28:00 <planetmaker> and then there's rhodecode.o.o... another repo management interface
11:28:21 <planetmaker> but that's still kinda in evaluation phase
11:28:48 <planetmaker> and there's for things which build binaries als a bundles.openttdcoop.org which hosts the releases of the projects
11:29:27 <benny> physical or virtual servers?
11:29:49 <planetmaker> but it's all on the same physical server
11:30:02 <planetmaker> but split in different VMs as suitable
11:30:22 <benny> so dev.o.o and hg.o.o are different VMs?
11:31:35 <planetmaker> I think not... but doesn't matter, does it?
11:32:24 <planetmaker> we're in the process to restructure it... so things change. Hopefully in a way that no-one notices that the backend changes ;-)
11:32:31 <benny> currently go to IT in school but the education is hilarious
11:45:17 <peter1138> annoying bugs of screen...
11:46:59 <peter1138> school IT education: "this is a keyboard... and THIS is a mouse"
11:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i must have had bad education, because i don't remember this being taught at our school
11:59:35 <NGC3982> That is computer education
11:59:44 <NGC3982> And should not be confused with IT education.
11:59:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but we did have some introduction into a weird editor that came with DOS 4, which was already ancient at that time
12:01:32 <peter1138> same thing as far as schools are concerned
12:01:37 <peter1138> or were, back in my day
12:01:58 <peter1138> btw, i use school in the english meaning, i.e. up to 16 years old
12:03:15 <peter1138> we had the most awesome colour printers back then
12:03:24 <peter1138> could only print 1 dot at a time
12:03:35 <peter1138> so had to feed the page very very slowly
12:03:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i was at a scientific-focused school, we had IT from 7th grade onwards
12:03:57 <peter1138> how old is 7th grade?
12:04:20 <Eddi|zuHause> you usually turn 14 in 8th grade
12:04:45 <peter1138> i had "computer studies" after 14, but it was one of the optional ones
12:05:05 <peter1138> and we faffed about on bbc micros half the time
12:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> so 16 would be 10th grade
12:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> my school went up to 12th grade
12:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> in some other regions in germany up to 13th grade
12:05:57 <peter1138> 16-18 at school is called 6th form here
12:06:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and then you're eligible for university
12:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if you don't want to go to university, you can quit after 10th grade, or 9th grade if you're really dumb
12:07:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but you have to decide whether you use the 9, 10 or 12/13 year school after 4th grade, so rather early. which is politically somewhat disputed
12:07:45 <peter1138> here you can quit at 16 and go into the college system
12:07:54 <peter1138> which can lead to uni again
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12:21:28 <planetmaker> oh well... we did do some basic programming in turbo pascal and in prolog... weired stuff
13:33:42 <Eddi|zuHause> prolog is fun :)
13:34:35 <Eddi|zuHause> although we did prolog only in university...
13:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... tt-ms.de seems to be down
13:41:41 <Sacro> likesprolog( Eddi|zuHause ).
13:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that is probably wrong syntax :p
13:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure | had special meaning in prolog :)
13:55:32 <NGC3982> Building a fully working 2048 map with ECS is -hard-.
13:56:07 <Eddi|zuHause> last time i tried ECS, it was unplayable on a 2048 map
14:10:37 <Ammler> is it intendend to skip Zuu from 1.2 readme?
14:11:38 <V453000> last time I played ecs it was unplayable on any map :p
14:12:44 <Ammler> hg diff -r1.2 readme.txt ^
14:15:34 <Ammler> For ECS, you need to fiddle with the paramters :-)
14:16:19 <V453000> even the "best" parameters wont disable weird growth mechanism and winter/summer production for farms
14:16:32 <V453000> having 0 in winter and like 8000 for primary industry is just dumb
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14:32:45 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: with "unplayable" i meant the game speed
14:34:04 <Eddi|zuHause> the game speed i had on my 386 DX25 with a full map was about the same as an ECS game with an empty map :)
14:35:12 <Yexo> <Ammler> is it intendend to skip Zuu from 1.2 readme? <- he becamse dev after 1.2 was released, so what's the problem?
14:43:24 <Ammler> nothing, was just wondering :-)
14:46:04 <Ammler> Yexo: it's not like you don't edit the readme in 1.2 anymore
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17:05:59 <Zuu> krinn: If the current development-version of scp is free of known showstoppers, I could release a NoCarGoal with optional scp later tonight. By making scp toggable via a setting, its not the end of the world if more scp bugs turn up. NoCarGoal users can then disable scp if it causes them trouble.
17:06:38 <Zuu> But that could help getting a scp server out that AIs can start to do some work with.
17:07:40 <planetmaker> it's another scp than I usually think of, I guess
17:11:45 *** roland is now known as Guest3761
17:17:29 <Zuu> planetmaker: Script Communication Protocol
17:18:32 <Zuu> It's way less secure than the usual scp :-p
17:19:08 <Zuu> Humans that know the protocol can eavesdrop the communication by keeping his sign list open.
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17:59:28 <jonty-comp> 502 on downloads :(
18:00:04 <jonty-comp> presumably on the mirror selector
18:04:52 * andythenorth wonders how many ottd downloads we're getting at the moment
18:05:01 <andythenorth> more or less than usual
18:05:50 <jonty-comp> none probably, since it's broken
18:06:11 <jonty-comp> (for me and 1 person who joined #tycoon, anyway)
18:06:14 <andythenorth> less than usual probably
18:11:31 <Terkhen> TrueBrain: check jonty-comp's lines above this one
18:13:59 <planetmaker> there's openttd support in #tycoon?
18:14:28 <andythenorth> I thought it was just spam there?
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18:16:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
18:16:54 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it maybe naive people who try to get it :p
18:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> some ape ate all of them.
18:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, it increased. it was 502 in the report above :p
18:19:19 <krinn> oh sorry, didn't saw the few lines upper
18:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's all TrueBrain's fault
18:19:50 <krinn> ah yes, got 504 but on upload
18:20:04 <krinn> isn't it always TrueBrain's fault ?
18:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on your logic :p
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18:37:34 <AnotherOther> Anyone here not actually idle?
18:38:19 * planetmaker is and will continue. Later folks :-)
18:38:27 <AnotherOther> Great, do you know anything about the OpenTTD downloads?
18:38:50 <Alberth> that is also my only information :)
18:39:17 <AnotherOther> Well, hopefully it'll come back up
18:39:23 <krinn> must be a proof of how popular it is
18:39:33 <AnotherOther> Seems like a server being down would be connected to some sort of alarm
18:40:14 * NGC3982 suggest a topic change.
18:40:33 <krinn> like if anyone read topic...
18:41:04 * Alberth did notice it was the same as the last time :)
18:41:08 <andythenorth> who wants to get pingdom alerts? :P
18:41:11 <krinn> specially too crowd topic like this one
18:41:22 <andythenorth> users are probably about as effective as pingdom
18:42:13 <NGC3982> andythenorth: That sounds interesting.
18:42:40 <andythenorth> I doubt TrueBrain wants to get sms when openttd goes down :P
18:43:06 <NGC3982> Or, i could, i guess.
18:43:15 <Alberth> especially as the server is elsewhere located :)
18:43:46 <NGC3982> Let's configure an auto-dialer
18:43:58 <andythenorth> NGC3982: you had ssh access to openttd servers? :o
18:44:27 <NGC3982> Im just being silly. :/
18:45:00 <NGC3982> I was actually refering to being able to make spree of issues.
18:45:12 <Alberth> andythenorth: not much use when it's down :p
18:45:26 <andythenorth> usually the box is up, services are down in my experience :P
18:45:39 <DorpsGek> Commit by translators :: r24651 /trunk/src/lang (5 files) (2012-10-30 18:45:28 UTC)
18:45:40 <DorpsGek> -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:41 <DorpsGek> dutch - 6 changes by habell
18:45:42 <DorpsGek> english_US - 6 changes by Rubidium
18:45:43 <DorpsGek> finnish - 6 changes by jpx_
18:45:44 <DorpsGek> norwegian_bokmal - 3 changes by jhsoby
18:45:45 <DorpsGek> russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:46:08 <Alberth> commit still works :)
18:48:44 <krinn> banans website report my file, seem to upload didn't fail finally
18:54:05 <SomeBacon> if i expand the towns my mines belong to will they be more productive?
18:56:10 <SomeBacon> is there a way to make them more productive?
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19:03:12 <Eddi|zuHause> certain persons get better notified if you actually highlight them...
19:04:01 <LordAro> i was checking first ;)
19:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, you can try reading logs, if that's not too much to ask
19:06:15 <DorpsGek> Commit by yexo :: r24652 extra/musa/text.py (2012-10-30 19:06:09 UTC)
19:06:16 <DorpsGek> [MUSA] -Fix: don't crash when both description_text and description_file are missing from the config file
19:07:06 <DorpsGek> Commit by yexo :: r24653 extra/musa/musa.py (2012-10-30 19:07:01 UTC)
19:07:07 <DorpsGek> [MUSA] -Feature: hide password when entered interactively
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19:48:59 <Wolf01> uh, what's that attached on my arm?
19:49:39 <Alberth> a sword to fight the deamons?
19:49:52 <Wolf01> no, at first it looked like a spider, but now there isn't anymore, see o/
19:52:25 <TrueBrain> Python segfault! \o/
19:54:25 <TrueBrain> most likely cause: trying to use MySQL in a threaded env
19:58:19 <Eddi|zuHause> threads are probably evil if you use a connection created in another thread
19:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> at least sqlite complained when i tried that
19:58:32 <TrueBrain> no, they happen in the global space
19:58:42 <TrueBrain> the issue seems to be that if 2 threads happen to execute something at the same time
19:58:45 <TrueBrain> highly unlikely ...
19:58:51 <TrueBrain> but from what I understand, they dont lock .. so .. yeah ...
19:58:56 <TrueBrain> well, solution was easy
19:59:00 <TrueBrain> make a new connection every time someone asks
19:59:08 <TrueBrain> PHP does ... so why shouldn't my balancer ;)
19:59:22 <jonty-comp> excellent methodology :P
19:59:54 <TrueBrain> well ... a running service is more valuable than a resource friendly one
20:00:06 <TrueBrain> as, in the limit, the most resource friendly service is one that isn't running
20:00:44 <andythenorth> TrueBrain: if you rm the spec, you can always pass it
20:01:23 <TrueBrain> why doesn't mysql_ping reconnect the socket
20:08:52 <TrueBrain> for the balancer it seems I have to write a MySQL thread, which only handles queries
20:08:56 <TrueBrain> and send stuff to it ....
20:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... after all these years i still read it as "OTT DAU" instead of "OTTD AU" :p
20:10:03 <Eddi|zuHause> (with "DAU" being the "Dumbest Assumable User")
20:12:50 <andythenorth> I am so bored of shareholder value
20:13:06 <andythenorth> and that is speaking as a shareholder :P
20:13:24 <andythenorth> was Walt Disney's mission to increase long term shareholder value?
20:13:28 <andythenorth> or was it to make epic shit?
20:13:51 <Rubidium> andythenorth: epic shit
20:13:58 <NGC3982> I thought the current state was to survive.
20:14:09 <Rubidium> it's what basically all companies do
20:14:23 <Rubidium> e.g. the banks a few years ago; we're still in their epic shit
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21:29:44 <MoreBacon> does using 2 engines instead of 1 improve train speed/acceleration?
21:31:11 <Supercheese> It definitely will improve acceleration
21:31:28 <Supercheese> it will only improve top speed if the 1-engine train couldn't reach top speed
21:31:38 <Supercheese> due to it being not powerful enough
21:32:50 <MoreBacon> will a slower one only help accelerate to its top speed?
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21:42:53 <Supercheese> Generally a multi-engine train is only as fast as its slowest engine
21:43:24 <Supercheese> in order to have special "banking engines" or whatnot, the .grf author has to implement some code wizardry
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22:46:20 <krinn> how bananas handle version conflict ? i mean upload version 12, then changing something in version 12 and re-uploading version 12 : openttd see update and redownload newest version even version didn't change
22:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: the content download only checks MD5, not the version
22:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: version is only checked in the newgrf picker window, then all lower versions are not shown (by default), but all files with the same version are shown
22:51:55 <krinn> Eddi|zuHause, so version replace should work for small fixes ?
22:52:21 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: it will horribly confuse people...
22:52:54 <Eddi|zuHause> krinn: better increase the version for anything you publish
22:53:33 <krinn> except it's dirty as its a lib
22:53:46 <krinn> version increase don't give bugfixes, until header are changed
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23:06:27 <planetmaker> krinn, don't use the same version if it differs. Even by one bit
23:06:32 <planetmaker> versions come for free
23:07:39 <planetmaker> and if you release a new one with the same version, a random (or both) will be shown - and how would I know which is newer?
23:07:57 <planetmaker> if you update the version string as displayed, you really need to update the other version, too
23:32:06 <krinn> ok planetmaker won't do, version++ on each release
continue to next day ⏵
