IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-08-18
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00:19:23 <Wakou> So how do I delete all and regress?
01:24:54 <Mazur> Because breakdowns only add annoyance and interrupt an otherwise well build network.
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07:30:55 <andythenorth> 22% of windows downloaded :/
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09:18:24 <Asteconn> Dia duit ar maidín! As they say in Ireland
09:35:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound particularly irish to me
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09:38:31 <Asteconn> I can speak a very little of the language. Enough at least to introduce myself and comment on how rubbish the weather is
09:46:12 <Eddi|zuHause> is that some screwed up version of my fair lady? :)
09:49:15 <Asteconn> For example! [incoming Gaelic]
09:51:17 <Asteconn> Dia daoibh ar maidín a chairde! Richard is ainm duit, agus tá mé mo chónaí sa Roícht Aontaithe ^^
09:51:48 <Asteconn> I'm hardly fluent mind you
09:52:06 <Asteconn> But it's often enough to impress Irish women as a conversation starter :D
09:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this is a good time to point towards the topic, though :)
09:55:03 <Asteconn> Indeedy. And that's why I'm keeping it to a minimum
09:55:22 <Asteconn> But you seemed at least partly interested, and noone else is being interrupted ^^
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10:07:19 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: primary industry closure; desirable: yes / no / under certain conditions?
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10:12:11 <Asteconn> That sounds likea 'under certain conditions' to me =2
10:12:28 <Asteconn> I really need a new favourite emoticon
10:14:27 <Asteconn> o.ô Interesting. I will consider this development
10:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm running out of old games to play...
10:15:07 <Eddi|zuHause> and the one i want to play i can't find the CD of...
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10:36:10 <Alberth> hi andy, eddi, and Asteconn
10:36:38 <Alberth> andythenorth: what do I hear now, closing industries is acceptable? :)
10:36:56 <Asteconn> Eddi|zuHause: You should play I-War
10:38:20 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it was always acceptable. it was just one of those andy-isms where "i don't like behaviour X" results in "let's do the extreme opposite"
10:39:12 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of fine-tuning X
10:46:14 <Terkhen> this is my last day of vacations :(
10:47:02 <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow is sunday
10:47:48 <andythenorth> I spent several weekends trying to improve FIRS closing, until frosch123 pointed out I was wasting my life ;)
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10:49:10 <Alberth> speaking of the devil :p hi frosch
10:49:36 <Terkhen> Eddi|zuHause: I'm not going to call 5 hours of driving and unpacking everything a vacation day
10:50:43 <Alberth> frosch123: no worries, your name was used in a positive way, namely rescueing andys life
10:51:01 <frosch123> that's what i was worried about :p
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10:53:14 <frosch123> hmm, even with the logs i miss context :s
10:57:59 <andythenorth> was wrt industry closing
10:58:10 <andythenorth> and the stupidity of trying to solve it in grf :P
11:37:15 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24479 /trunk/src/pathfinder/npf/npf.cpp: -Fix: Trains were unable to reverse in stations when using NPF.
11:37:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24480 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Doc: Doxygenize ChooseShipTrack().
11:37:49 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24481 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Feature [FS#5127]: Make the pathfinder decide whether ships shall leave depots towards north or south.
11:38:08 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r24482 /trunk/src/ (openttd.cpp saveload/town_sl.cpp): -Fix [FS#5232] (r24180): Do not call RebuildSubsidisedSourceAndDestinationCache() before subsidy savegame conversion is finished.
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11:57:01 <Asteconn> Gentlemen - might I peruse your opinion on the matter of routing rail lines and station orientation? I have here [http://snag.gy/DXbQP.jpg] some towns that I wish to connect. I'm thinking of running a mainline from Garswood > Winchfield > Balmossie > eventually off the left side of the map to some more cities, with a spur following the small river from Winchfield to Cleland green, calling at...
11:57:03 <Asteconn> ...all of the towns on the way. Especially at Winchfield, I'm unsure how to angle the station so that I can get it relatively close to the centre of the town, but still have it running as a through station rather than a terminus at the bottom of a T?
12:03:32 <frosch123> maybe drop balmossie and rather go east north from winchfield
12:03:45 <frosch123> towards canterbury shirlay swinton cleland
12:04:15 <frosch123> in winchfield likely the stations fits best on NW
12:04:24 <frosch123> with some bus feeders inside the town and over the bridge
12:04:25 <Asteconn> Yeah =] I was going to go that direction on the branch line
12:05:10 <Asteconn> But yes I see what you mean there
12:05:47 <Asteconn> I was thinking about putting the station at NW, although there would be quite a tight curve going inwards
12:06:01 <Asteconn> ^NW next to the river
12:12:14 <Asteconn> What's the best way to ensure that trains are consistently mostly-full, without degrading the rating of the station?
12:15:04 <frosch123> set loading time to a few days
12:15:19 <frosch123> (i.e. timetable only the loading, not the travel)
12:15:31 <frosch123> (don't set loading times for crowded stations)
12:16:37 <Asteconn> Ah yes =] I do that already
12:16:47 <Asteconn> But I've never not-timetabled busy stations
12:20:18 <frosch123> you should timetable non-busy stations when fullload is no option
12:24:25 <Asteconn> Also, greetings Wolf01
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12:53:48 <andythenorth> so primary closing - what conditions trigger closure?
12:56:09 <Alberth> in a sane environment?
12:56:43 <Alberth> age, use, number present versus wanted count, and some random
12:56:51 <andythenorth> in a sane environment
12:57:09 <andythenorth> with a little more care / balance than just 'production multiplier is 4 or less'
12:57:44 <Alberth> newgrf is in control of the production multiplier, right?
13:02:35 <andythenorth> I have everything I need to control the internals of closure
13:02:48 <andythenorth> but very little to decide 'is it good for gameplay?' (or not)
13:03:09 <andythenorth> I can count the number of instances of the type and such
13:03:20 <andythenorth> but not density, nor likelihood of rebuilding elsewhere etc
13:03:53 <andythenorth> that's an interesting aspect
13:10:41 <V453000> the "send all vehicles for servicing" order from group means the same like ctrl+clicked send to depot for all vehicles in the group, right?
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13:17:44 <V453000> andy: found some issue with recycling depot, the cargoes it produces seem to be rather random :d
13:19:31 <V453000> I think manuf. supplies / farm supplies is best option
13:21:56 <frosch123> V453000: i would think so (wrt, depot stuff)
13:22:25 <V453000> now it made even chemicals :d
13:26:34 <V453000> from the side of openttd, I think autoreplacing works good as it is, with one exception - when you want to autoreplace twice in quick succession, soon enough so train do not want to service yet. I think making the order "send trains for servicing" could work better, like instead of send the train directly to depot, make all trains demand servicing when they spot a depot, like with normal servicing. This would become a lot more handy not only wi
13:27:26 <V453000> after all, not even all trains on the map have to see a path to a depot at any time, those would be unaffected by the current mass command
13:27:49 <V453000> if it just resets their service timer to "want service", it would work a lot more flexibly
13:27:56 <V453000> is anything like that viable?
13:31:54 <frosch123> doesn't it already behave like that?
13:32:26 <frosch123> (vehicles trying to service when autoreplace is active, even if breakdowns are disabled)
13:32:48 <V453000> yes, but you cant make them do that twice in quick succession
13:32:58 <V453000> you just have to wait for the next time for servicing
13:33:45 <V453000> and the current order itself is a bit unuseful, sending all trains straight to depot is quite dangerous for every network
13:38:14 <frosch123> you don't want to do that for all trains :p
13:38:20 <frosch123> just one group or station
13:38:42 <V453000> if you have a terminus station anywhere on the route of that group, it will work really badly
13:39:32 <V453000> but if their servicing would be required the next time they meet a depot, they would just visit the depot after the terminus, for example
13:40:10 <andythenorth> recycling plant produces random cargos
13:40:14 <V453000> which is really unconvenient because when you order all of the group to service, you wan them to do that
13:40:32 <V453000> andythenorth: that is intended? :o
13:46:53 <frosch123> i don't think resetting the service time when changing autoreplace is actually desired
13:47:07 <frosch123> vehicles shall not all go to depot immediately
13:47:22 <frosch123> the service intervall spreads them over the time
13:50:50 <V453000> sure, in normal cases
13:50:56 <V453000> but if you give them an order?
13:51:37 <V453000> that is what happens, now but with the difference that it breaks the network as they usually all go to one depot that they saw closes when given the command, and the trains which do not see a depot at that time are ignored by the command
13:51:56 <andythenorth> V453000: yes, intended ;)
13:53:45 <frosch123> V453000: ah, you mean a third entry in the drop down
13:54:04 <frosch123> sent to depot/send to servicing immediately/schedule servicing
13:54:27 <frosch123> i thought you wanted to change the default behaviour without manual interaction
13:55:26 <V453000> nono, just that one command in the dropdown
13:55:58 <V453000> dont know about send to depot, but send to servicing would be a lot better that way
13:56:33 <andythenorth> V453000: those industries serve no gameplay purpose except as a destination for recyclables
13:56:40 <andythenorth> i.e. they don't fit into any other chain
13:56:46 <andythenorth> so they just produce random cargos
13:56:59 <V453000> doesnt matter they produce something, they can be useful
13:57:26 <V453000> and if you want to use them in any way, and fund them for yourself, it is basically impossible to guess what they will produce; you cant plan with that :/
13:58:25 <andythenorth> but post in FIRS forum thread if you can see how to solve them
13:58:27 <Asteconn> You know, two things that annoy me mildly presently - Firstly that I cannot swap mail and passenger wagons without doing it manually, and secondly that I wagon swaps don't add carriages if the train becomes too short
14:05:38 <frosch123> hmm, google favicon changed
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15:43:01 <drush> frosch123 like a long time ago
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16:49:22 <andythenorth> I have a very special request
16:49:39 <andythenorth> I would like a new var similar to var 67 etc
16:49:57 <andythenorth> parameter is another industry type
16:50:26 <andythenorth> returns the count of type instances for which there is an unbroken water route from current tile
16:50:43 <andythenorth> I could do it in newgrf with a fricking insane spiral tile check
16:50:50 <andythenorth> but the pain would be incredible :)
16:51:54 <Yexo> unbroking water route -> pathfinding -> too expensive
16:52:08 <frosch123> yeah, just wanted to say that :)
16:52:11 <andythenorth> I figure that might be the answer
16:52:43 <andythenorth> going in straight lines is insufficient I guess
16:53:45 <andythenorth> another request: deterministic order for placing industries at map gen
16:53:47 <andythenorth> probly also a no
16:53:54 * andythenorth is trying to improve fishing harbours
16:54:19 <Yexo> indeed, also definitely a no. a newgrf should not depend on that order
16:55:17 <andythenorth> I wonder if I should remove the fishing harbour
16:55:27 <andythenorth> it causes support issues
16:56:23 <andythenorth> - it's hard to place manually
16:56:29 <andythenorth> - it isn't built reliably by map gen
16:56:45 <andythenorth> - when it is built, the location is often nonsense wrt fishing grounds
17:01:28 <andythenorth> pop quiz, pick one answer
17:01:45 <andythenorth> "Fishing harbours should locate near towns, it looks nicer"
17:02:07 <andythenorth> "Fishing harbours should locate anywhere, usually more can be built this way"
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17:02:43 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: your 2 €cents?
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17:28:56 <Alberth> you ran out of dock cranes?
17:29:25 <andythenorth> I ran out of slopes :P
17:29:29 <andythenorth> all slopes used up :P
17:34:32 <Alberth> you must have played too many mountanuous games :p
17:39:55 <andythenorth> seriously, flat docks :P
17:40:12 <andythenorth> or do we have to wait for New Stations?
17:40:16 <andythenorth> which is a unicorn :P
17:40:37 <andythenorth> also I have made the game enjoyable again
17:40:59 <andythenorth> the secret is 800x500 resolution
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17:43:26 <Alberth> I used your FISH to have a fun game
17:43:59 <Alberth> hmm, you made a new version didn't you? Must try that too :p
17:44:12 <V453000> andythenorth: I wouldnt be against fishing harbours anywhere
17:44:17 <V453000> near towns is really low probability
17:44:40 <V453000> esp. if you use lower town amount
17:46:30 <andythenorth> V453000: I'm thinking it's a worthwhile change
17:46:52 <V453000> also fishing grounds would need to grow
17:47:20 <V453000> the fishing chain is basically useless atm
17:48:00 <andythenorth> fishing chain is the standard money maker at the start
17:49:16 <V453000> the other cargoes are good enough
17:49:30 <V453000> and fish production is so low that oil is a lot more worth it
17:49:47 <V453000> if you make it well, you have oil growing since first year of service
17:50:00 <V453000> reaching huge productions very soon
17:53:26 <V453000> come have a look how its done on our stable server :) there is firs atm
18:05:03 <andythenorth> why aren't my farms growing :(
18:05:07 <andythenorth> I'm dumping in FMSP
18:06:14 <V453000> my farms grow well :)
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18:58:33 <andythenorth> seriously, flat docks :P
19:27:11 <Rubidium> interesting idea, merging houses and docks. Is that like merging houses and roads?
19:29:49 <andythenorth> merge everything :P
19:29:54 <andythenorth> also, I need a 4 track tramway
19:30:00 <andythenorth> this game has no trains yet
19:30:33 <frosch123> can you transport an entire dock on a ship?
19:31:07 <frosch123> hmm, i guess you cannot transport an airport in a plane
19:32:04 <Rubidium> ofcourse you can. An aircraft is hundreds of kilometers long, an airport at most 100-120 meters across
19:33:36 <frosch123> luckily different scales are no problem in ottd
19:33:45 <andythenorth> suddenly I'm printing money
19:34:13 <andythenorth> cost a lot to buy
19:34:17 <andythenorth> make a lot of money
19:34:23 <andythenorth> they're like the aircraft of 1895
19:36:55 <andythenorth> it's a shame OS X has to fade full screen ottd in and out
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19:38:04 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24483 /trunk/src/lang/dutch.txt: -Fix: remove ZERO WIDTH SPACE character from Dutch strings causing the fallback font to be chosen over the sprite font
19:39:28 <andythenorth> this idea of two output cargos is stupid
19:40:05 <SpComb> agreed, there should be at least three
19:40:20 <frosch123> "zero width space"? was that used intentionally?
19:42:56 <Rubidium> I think they copied it from somewhere
19:43:28 <Rubidium> as it was in the same place in both strings, and there were two per string
19:44:51 <Alberth> isn't that used as BOM ?
19:58:25 <frosch123> ah, non-breaking zero-width space is a bom
19:58:31 <frosch123> but, breaking zero-width space is not
19:59:36 <andythenorth> could use some trains right now
19:59:41 <andythenorth> 7 years until I get any :P
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20:10:33 <andythenorth> is this pipelines grf any good?
20:10:38 * andythenorth needs to move some oil :P
20:24:49 <andythenorth> did a ship pf bug get fixed?
20:25:00 <andythenorth> I just pulled and my ships are no longer being stupid
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20:28:14 <Alberth> frosch fixed a few ship bugs indeed :)
20:29:11 <frosch123> andythenorth: when leaving depots?
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![http://snag.gy/DXbQP.jpg]](http://snag.gy/DXbQP.jpg%5D){kind=link}
