IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-08-16
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07:28:47 <NGC3982> What a hellish morning.
07:31:12 <NGC3982> That made it a bit brighter.
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13:07:35 <NGC3982> Im about to arrange "BarTTD".
13:14:08 <drac_boy> heh..what is that? :)
13:19:01 <NGC3982> We are to gather in a pub (reservated, of course)
13:19:17 <NGC3982> Eat good food, drink good drinks and play good Openttd on laptops.
13:19:24 <NGC3982> I have already arranged the site and time.
13:19:49 <NGC3982> Im have yet to decide how to make this more of an online event, though.
13:20:01 <NGC3982> Like, a Facebook event and a bigger forum post, i guess.
13:20:29 <lugo> heh, will you be using goal scripts?
13:20:50 <drac_boy> heh, NGC3982 is the game only for these in the pub or others from across the country can join into the online fun too?
13:20:57 <NGC3982> No, not really. I guess it's more of a fun-GRF thing then actual competing.
13:21:08 <NGC3982> drac_boy: I don't know. What do you think?
13:21:44 <lugo> you didn't ask me but still, i'd make it open, why not.. :)
13:22:35 <drac_boy> NGC3982 well I guess the two main questions would be: which trainset and what build version?
13:22:54 <NGC3982> Well, the important thing is that we play and have fun together, the rest is kinda irrelevant.
13:23:02 <NGC3982> But i guess a FIRS+NUTS game would be nice.
13:23:15 <V453000> anyone really plays nuts? /surprised
13:23:17 <drac_boy> mm sounds ok... what ottd build tho?
13:23:27 <NGC3982> drac_boy: The ..latest, i guess?
13:23:28 <drac_boy> why do you think it was released if noone would use it :P
13:23:56 <V453000> idk I have my ring of people who use it but I obviously have no clue about the "general public" .p
13:23:57 <drac_boy> NGC3982 hmm we'll see but I only have chill or patch here most of the times atm ... but even if I don't join I'm sure you all would have fun anyway
13:25:25 <V453000> but yeah combination with firs is nice :p
13:29:48 <lugo> i wonder if usage of hot-air-baloons could be made somewhat beneficial, so that the map is getting a little more colored :D
13:34:14 <V453000> I personally like opengfx+ industries, that meks it colored too if you use nuts; with all these cargoes you get all the colourful wagons :p
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13:42:15 <drac_boy> I'm still partial to HEQS .. anyone else too? :)
13:47:02 <drac_boy> NGC3982 the tram/road grf
13:47:42 <drac_boy> hmm been a while I forgot who the creator of that grf was now
13:48:14 <NGC3982> Who ever it is, it's probably andythenorth.
13:48:34 <NGC3982> "Author:andythenorth, Zephyris "
13:49:32 <drac_boy> NGC3982 either way I sometimes have a network of various tram lines running in every directions .. I guess thats the fun thing about having slow but high-capacity signals-not-needed vehicles :)
13:50:03 <drac_boy> only if it was plausible to build trams just like you build trains but I suspect thats too much re-coding to be worth it atm tho
13:50:15 <drac_boy> so refitting for different cargos and lengths seem like a fair workaround for now
13:50:53 <andythenorth> but nobody cares :(
13:50:57 <andythenorth> woe is andythenorth
13:51:25 <drac_boy> well just so you know I'll always play heqs unless it decide to take a backward change for some reason :)
13:57:52 <lugo> i'm personally waiting on roadtypes before i start to complain about heqs :p
13:59:11 <andythenorth> roadtypes will *never* happen, money on it
13:59:22 <lugo> this feature would make heqs much more interesting, and i would play much more with it, thus gaining things to complain about
13:59:26 <NGC3982> Any particular reason?
13:59:37 <drac_boy> lugo still doesn't make much sense to me?
13:59:44 <NGC3982> Wait, with "road types" we are talking more than esthetics, i guess.
14:08:29 <drac_boy> what kind of road types were there supposed to be anyway?
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15:44:30 <drush> anyone knows here that OTTD has got press coverage in this month's polish CHiP mag?
15:46:47 <drac_boy> doing ok BenTrein just trying to sort out a few little things
15:47:12 <drac_boy> not to mention adding certain patch downloads to my upcoming website as well...oh and to figure out whats for lunch soon :-s
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15:52:37 <argoneus> why is this channel not on freenode?
15:53:03 <Rubidium> because of a certain operator spamming us quite often for money or so
15:53:46 <drush> argoneus freenode is a bad network
15:53:55 <drush> no sane person should allow themselves to associate with them
15:54:26 * drac_boy actually uses freenode a lot with not one single issue
15:55:47 <argoneus> I frequent about 12 freenode channels
15:56:00 <argoneus> on OFCT I frequent only one
15:56:02 <argoneus> can you guess which?
15:56:15 <drush> you gentlemen probably don't know about 2 things then
15:57:44 <drac_boy> argoneus yeah .. oftc is a low server just like many others .. to put it that way
15:58:14 <drush> Rob Levin faked his death and then started to embezzle the network from Europe
15:59:11 <drush> second, it took Freenode a month to fix an XPS vuln in their ircd
15:59:21 <drush> whereas OTFC fixed it in a day
16:01:26 <drac_boy> and why does otfc not even have any major channels at all then?
16:02:45 <drush> a lot of people probably don't know about those shady episodes of freenode's history
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16:03:54 <drush> can't blame people for not knowing history, people just want to use irc
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16:12:09 <Phos> if there is a possibility to ajust the ratio between the industries
16:12:26 <Phos> so that there are 4 coal mines and only one powerplant
16:12:57 <drush> 4 production plants per 1 consumption plant?
16:12:57 <LordAro> without an industry grf, i think that is not (yet, of course) possible
16:13:27 <LordAro> like ECS Vectors, FIRS, w/e
16:14:33 <LordAro> which OTTD version do you have?
16:15:01 <Phos> because there are so many options, sinde i played this game (2008 or so)
16:15:31 <LordAro> that won't be a problem then :L
16:16:05 <LordAro> can you specify what you mean by "industries 0.3.4" ?
16:16:15 <LordAro> a screenshot might help
16:17:20 <Phos> its "New GFX+Industries 0.3.4"
16:18:06 <LordAro> i think it is in fact "OpenGFX+ Industries" , although that may be a translation issue
16:18:39 <Phos> btw, thanks for the help
16:18:48 <argoneus> can anyone help me with AI development
16:19:02 <argoneus> or is this only for discussion like 'how to make money"
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16:19:52 <LordAro> Phos: either way, iirc, OGFX+ industries does not provide that sort of functionality
16:20:08 <Rubidium> argoneus: how long have you frequented freenode? I reckon not long enough ;)
16:20:20 <Phos> and is there an easy way to configure the ratio`?
16:21:29 <Rubidium> argoneus: for example Debian, openstreetmaps, qemu, gcc are on oftc
16:21:48 <drac_boy> think its been hmm 7 or 8 years since the first freenode contact .. first channel ironically was a commerical linux distro thats now long gone
16:22:00 <Rubidium> argoneus: www.openttd.org/news/26
16:22:42 <argoneus> but #debian exists on freenode
16:22:56 <drac_boy> argoneus so does most distros and libs anyway
16:23:24 <argoneus> can someone help me with Ai development?
16:23:28 <argoneus> I don't get one thing and it confuses me
16:23:37 <Phos> okay, i will do this, thx for the help, have a nice day
16:23:51 <Rubidium> argoneus: 517 for Debian and 134 for gcc on OFTC
16:24:32 <Rubidium> e.g. irc.debian.org == oftc.net
16:25:01 <LordAro> argoneus: what is the 'thing' ?
16:25:24 <argoneus> basically, if I declare local adj = AITileList(); it should initialize an empty tile list
16:25:34 <argoneus> then if I add a rectangle to it, it should add the respective tiles in the rectangle to it
16:25:48 <argoneus> foreach (i, tile in adj)
16:25:55 <argoneus> I assumed 'tile' was the ID of the tile
16:25:59 <argoneus> and 'i' was the current iteration
16:26:06 <argoneus> but if I print 'i' it prints the ID of the tile
16:26:11 <argoneus> and 'tile' prints gibberish
16:26:33 <LordAro> damn, lists, never did understand lists properly :L
16:27:13 <LordAro> and it probably doesn't help that i've done no squirrel work in months
16:27:30 <LordAro> you're probably better off attracting the attention of Zuu
16:27:56 <LordAro> he frequents the channel, and the forums
16:28:53 <LordAro> SuperLib, PAXLink and CluelessPLus, i think
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17:12:11 <Yexo> argoneus: an AIList (which AITileList is a subclass of) is basically a map with key=>value pairs
17:12:29 <Yexo> foreach is defined as "foreach (key, value in list)"
17:12:48 <Yexo> in a tilelist the keys are the tiles
17:14:09 <Yexo> the values should all be zero after the call to AddRectangle()
17:15:09 <Yexo> not actually a hash, just a map
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17:45:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r24474 /trunk/src/lang/luxembourgish.txt:
17:45:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:24 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 29 changes by Phreeze
18:13:03 <andythenorth> haven't found a pleasing solution to farms yet
18:13:31 <andythenorth> I could add a farm supplies wagon to every HEQS tram?
18:13:38 <andythenorth> which doesn't refit with the other vehicles
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18:14:08 <andythenorth> then FMSP could be delivered back by the same trams that are loading cargo
18:14:24 <andythenorth> I could also force HEQS trams to be mixed
18:14:33 <andythenorth> I would need to add more refittable subtypes
18:15:07 <andythenorth> e.g. "75t in 9 wagons, carrying cargos for FIRS Dairy Farms"
18:15:21 <andythenorth> "75t in 9 wagons, carrying cargos for FIRS Mixed Farms"
18:15:34 <andythenorth> I'd probably need to do ECS too
18:15:46 <andythenorth> "75t in 9 wagons for ECS Crop Farms"
18:16:07 <andythenorth> might as well do default farms too
18:16:19 <andythenorth> that would be about 10 or 12 combinations I think
18:16:25 <andythenorth> and there are 3 different lengths per tram
18:16:48 <Alberth> "lots of stuff for someone"
18:16:56 <andythenorth> so that's another 30 refits or so in refit menu
18:17:03 <andythenorth> maybe I should make dedicated farm trams
18:17:14 <andythenorth> and forest trams
18:17:31 * andythenorth counts trams in HEQS
18:17:45 <andythenorth> there about 14 trams right now
18:17:49 <andythenorth> most would need duplicating
18:18:30 <andythenorth> I could produce one for each possible cargo combination
18:18:40 <andythenorth> what if cargos are not equal in ratio?
18:19:11 <andythenorth> do I need to do 1:1 Milk / Livestock; 1:2 Milk / Livestock; 2:1 Milk / Livestock etc?
18:20:17 * andythenorth has a better idea
18:20:22 <andythenorth> could do them as trains
18:22:40 <andythenorth> if I do trams as a railtype
18:22:45 <andythenorth> and mining trucks as a railtype
18:22:50 <andythenorth> I can make one convertible to other
18:25:21 <andythenorth> can we rescale the entire game?
18:27:20 <Belugas> and we'll write it in Delphi!
18:27:37 <Belugas> with an XML interface to the maps gnegnegne!
18:27:41 <Kjetil_> and port it to windows 8!
18:27:41 <andythenorth> it's only the sprites I'm talking about :P
18:27:49 <andythenorth> don't get over-dramatic :P
18:27:58 <andythenorth> if we change the scale
18:28:01 <Belugas> htat, Kjetil_... is ... kinda stupid...
18:28:04 <andythenorth> then roads can be implemented as railtypes
18:28:18 <Belugas> andythenorth, i'm just gooding ;)
18:28:40 <andythenorth> I don't think it would take long to redraw everything 2x larger
18:29:07 <andythenorth> only about 10 years
18:29:13 <andythenorth> but newgrf is 10 years old already right?
18:29:50 <andythenorth> we need to start thinking long term
18:29:56 <andythenorth> where might the game be in 100 years?
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18:31:04 <Rubidium> andythenorth: out of version numbers ;)
18:31:19 <andythenorth> what's the upper limit?
18:33:14 <Alberth> about 50 10K parties away :p
18:34:57 <andythenorth> Alberth: played a game recently?
18:35:27 * andythenorth considers playing some kind of FIRS game for stitch-and-bitch purposes
18:35:27 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24475 /branches/1.2/ (5 files in 4 dirs): [1.2] -Update: some documentation
18:35:41 <Alberth> Aisleriot Solitaire, about 5 minutes ago, does that count?
18:36:19 <andythenorth> I should _probably_ do work instead
18:36:30 <andythenorth> I have lots of product tickets I want to get done
18:36:37 <andythenorth> and some customers I'd like to be happy
18:40:13 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24476 /tags/1.2.2/ (10 files in 4 dirs): -Release: 1.2.2
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18:47:12 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24477 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Merge: documentation updates from 1.2.
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20:08:59 <Yexo> LordAro: you documented that FindScript/HasBaseSet can return NULL, but GetTextFile doesn't check the return value
20:09:40 <Yexo> that might be correct (if there is a hidden precondition so those functions are not allowed to return NULL in this case), but it's probably the cause for your segfault
20:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> is the topic outdated?
20:14:59 *** Yexo changes topic to "1.2.2 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version, 'Most recent' neither | English only"
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20:22:11 <LordAro> Yexo: that'll be it, thanks
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20:24:39 <LordAro> hmm, so strecpy does not like you copying NULL into a string then :L
20:26:26 <user56257> hi ppl. i need an advice on moving to monorail. How to save orders to new trains from old? Thanx in advance.
20:27:00 <Alberth> build a new depot, build a train, copy the orders from the old one
20:27:03 <Yexo> 1) build new train first, copy orders from old train, sell old train
20:27:30 <Yexo> 2) make sure there is only a single train in the depot, sell the train, convert the depot (while the depot window stays open), build new train. The new train will have exactly the same orders as the old one
20:27:46 <user56257> after sending all trains to deports there are several trains in one depot
20:28:09 <Yexo> so use the other method :)
20:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause> then 2) won't work
20:28:13 <user56257> Yexo: will try now 1)
20:28:45 <Eddi|zuHause> there's also 3) use "universal railtype" newgrf
20:29:06 <Alberth> user56257: but copying orders is boring, I usually review the network, and start replacing/rebuilding/extending/streamlining it
20:29:12 * Kjetil_ had a patch to the old openttd code-based that would convert depots with trains in them
20:29:36 <Alberth> the trouble is convert to what :p
20:29:39 <user56257> hmm.. copying orders? how to copy?
20:29:40 <Yexo> when I play I usually never upgrade to monorail
20:29:58 <Eddi|zuHause> or 4) use vehicle NewGRFs that don't force/discourage you to convert to monorail/maglev
20:30:00 <Yexo> when a train has no orders and you click "go to" then click on another train, it'll copy the orders from that train
20:30:02 <Kjetil_> Alberth: indeed. It was hardcoded to the cheapest model of the new railtype
20:30:34 <Eddi|zuHause> user56257: when you click "go to" then don't click on a station, but click on a train
20:30:36 <user56257> Yexo: oh thanx again, will try
20:30:37 <Alberth> Kjetil_: so useful, so you had to replace all your trains twice? :)
20:32:07 <Kjetil_> Alberth: heh. Usually you only have one traintype available for the next-gen track any way
20:32:55 <Alberth> with the default set, yeah. Don't know what the other vehicle newgrfs do
20:33:35 <andythenorth> Alberth: reading your nice reply on industries...
20:33:36 <andythenorth> "I don't believe closing unserviced industries is bad in itself."
20:33:55 <andythenorth> think I make a mistake with that in FIRS, for secondaries at least
20:34:42 <Alberth> you're too eager trying to please your users with every wish they have :)
20:36:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: I'm currently playing with secondary closure off :P
20:37:00 <andythenorth> because I have an 1870-start game with slow trams, and no money
20:37:14 <andythenorth> by the time I get money, lots of secondaries will start closing in waves :P
20:37:38 <andythenorth> I'm now confident they will get replaced
20:38:02 <andythenorth> but they might break the planned chains I'm building at game start
20:38:40 <andythenorth> maybe I should just accept random chance :)
20:39:13 <andythenorth> some way of reserving industries would be nice :P
20:39:24 <andythenorth> can't think how that would be done though
20:39:32 <user56257> omg it works, but i thinks my economics will suffer due to such a huge replacing
20:39:47 <user56257> not by money, but by time
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20:43:46 <andythenorth> Alberth: did some replies (short) :)
20:43:47 <Alberth> andythenorth: just after you introduced new industries, increase the number of industries in the world
20:44:11 <andythenorth> that's the route I favour too
20:44:26 <drac_boy> btw was just wondering about that thing someone mentioned before, can you actually make the map creator check for how many A industries to B induestries?
20:45:15 <Zuu> Hmm, so someone re-suffled the parameter orders of Graph.AyStar between version 4 and 6. The RoadPathFinder(RPF) for AI uses version 4, but the NoGo-version will have to use version 6 as there is no version 4 of AyStar for NoGo.
20:45:53 <Zuu> So either SuperLib need to overload the RPF differently for NoGo or AI, or I need to update the RPF for AIs too to use AyStar 6.
20:46:21 <LordAro> Zuu: update the road pathfinder? :P
20:46:28 <andythenorth> one other thing that can cause strange results (it's correct behaviour btw) - when I add a new type to FIRS, the relative probability of other types is then reduced
20:46:41 <andythenorth> which is correct maths, but might have unintended consequences
20:46:42 <Yexo> Zuu: after frosch123 pointed me to it I've now made your "Minimal GS" topic sticky
20:46:43 <drac_boy> mm ok just wanted to know, thanks andythenorth
20:46:50 <Zuu> Which in term means that evry AI that use RPF and overload any of the callbacks need to update their AIs too.
20:46:53 <Yexo> should be easier to find this way for new people in the future
20:46:59 <Zuu> (when they upload a new version)
20:47:31 <Zuu> Or I could make AyStar 7 that reverts the re-suffle of parameter order.
20:47:48 <Yexo> which function are you talking about?
20:49:11 <Zuu> In v4 of AyStar the _pf_instance parameter is at the end of the function arguments. In v6 it has moved to the front and pushed back the other arguments one step.
20:50:57 <Zuu> Or I could port AyStar 4 to NoGo and release it as "AyStar Classic" and use that for the NoGo RPF to keep the RPF for AI intact while also creating a nogo RPF that is compatible with it.
20:51:38 <Zuu> I don't plan to actually use any of the news in AyStar 6 vs 4 in the RPF code.
20:51:49 <Yexo> I can't find back those changes in the aystar repository
20:52:04 <Zuu> I have a diff between 4 and 6 if you are interested.
20:52:10 <Yexo> and it's way too long ago to remember about it
20:52:51 <Zuu> some of the comments in v6 have not been changed to reflect the re-suffle of the arguments.
20:53:33 <Alberth> and good night to all
20:53:53 <Yexo> Zuu: as far as I can see the change was: -"Provide callback functions" +"Provide instance that has functions"
20:54:27 <Yexo> not exactly, but it's not simply shuffling the parameters
20:54:39 <Yexo> it's replacing 4 parameters by 1
20:55:53 <Zuu> It contains some internal changes too, but the biggest problem is the change in the interface.
20:56:10 <Yexo> I do however think that the method used by A* 6 is better, as you should now be able to pass member functions instead of only static functions
20:56:20 <Yexo> or at least, that seems to be the intend of the changes
20:56:56 <Zuu> The solution that probably give least bad effects is to release "AyStar 4 for NoGo" and build the NoGo port of the RPF on that one creating a NoGo RPF that is completely compatible with the AI RPF without touching the AI RPF.
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20:57:41 <Yexo> that depends, if there are other updates too now might be a good time to release an updated AI RPF (with the interface changes)
20:58:07 <Yexo> on the other hand: are there any interface changes needed for an updated RPF?
20:58:08 <Zuu> I don't have any AI RPF changes that I wish to include in the core.
20:59:00 <Zuu> I do have some extensions offered in SuperLib, but I also know that other AI authors have derived their own extensions with the RPF as base.
21:00:29 <Yexo> is it that big a deal to ask AI authors to update a few lines of code?
21:00:46 <Yexo> it's not that many people
21:01:44 <Zuu> Its not a big job to ask them, but those who don't read the question may spend time hunting strange bugs until they realize that the bug is caused by an API change.
21:01:59 <Zuu> It took me some time to figure it out between AyStar 4 and 6.
21:03:31 <Yexo> still I think now would be a good time to get everyone's code based on the same version again and make A* 4 really obsolete
21:06:09 <Zuu> I agree that it is a choise that have an impact here. If we move RPF to A* 6 for AI and NoGo, anyone who uploads an AI after that will be forced to update his code to A* 6.
21:07:32 <Zuu> If you derive your own RPF based on the Bananas RPF, you typically override _Cost and _Neighbours, so there would be about 10 AIs or more that would be forced to update.
21:07:35 <Yexo> oh, I didn't realize that RPF as on bananas still uses A* v4
21:09:13 <Yexo> still AIs are not forced to update to a newer RPF
21:10:01 <Zuu> Of course they could copy RPF 3 from their hard drive and include in their AI in place of the bananas RPF if they refuse to use the new RPF 4.
21:10:20 <Zuu> But they cannot use an old RPF as dependency through the banans web interface.
21:10:38 <Yexo> that's bad for libraries
21:10:49 <Yexo> TrueBrain: ^^ is that something that would be easy to fix?
21:11:39 <Zuu> TrueBrain: To clarify, allow people to select old versions of a library as dependency
21:12:51 <Zuu> If it would be easy for them to just stay at v3, it would not be that bad to upload a v4 with a different interface.
21:13:57 <Zuu> I guess allowing old versions itself is not that hard to do, but the dependency list will grow much longer :-)
21:23:12 <Zuu> While at content distribution, good work LordAro with the text file patches :-)
21:24:56 <LordAro> apart from the guidance from Yexo an hour or 2 ago, i did this one pretty much all by myself :)
21:36:44 <drac_boy> I know its a crazy idea but I was kinda just thinking about that new aircraft distance thing and wondering, couldn't it also happen to certain rail locomotives too? (counting depot and station altogether as a refuel point as well)
21:36:50 <Zuu> Yexo: If it cannot be changed (easily) so that AIs can pick the old RPF, would you still recommend updating the AI RPF to A* 6? Or is it in that case better to make a NoGo RPF for A*4 and port A*4 to NoGo?
21:38:21 <Zuu> For me it is about 15 lines of code (at various places over three files) that change on that decision, so I'm happy to pick a decision and then go with it and not jump back and fourth.
21:39:43 <Yexo> given that the amount of codechanges needed is so small, I'd go for A*6 everywhere and an updated RPF for both
21:40:05 <Yexo> but both ways are fine: you decide, you're doing the code anyway :p
21:43:14 <michi_cc> drac_boy: The actual travel distance for a rail vehicle is totally arbitrary, quite in contrast to aircraft.
21:44:03 <Zuu> A*6 is more future safe for me, but impose work on others :-)
21:44:24 <drac_boy> michi_cc actually..to put it one way: a small shunter with 30 gallons of fuel onboard can not imagine going a long distance without needing to stop? :)
21:44:55 <Yexo> LordAro: if nobody does it before then (maybe me) I'll make sure to do a proper review/commit of FS#5236 at last this sunday
21:45:31 <Yexo> Zuu: given the amount of other is so small I wouldn't care too much about that
21:46:02 <michi_cc> But how are you going to know if it is going a long distance or not? There might be a short path of e.g. 5 tiles or whatever, but depending on signal states the chosen path might also be 100 long.
21:46:43 <drac_boy> michi_cc how do boats and now planes tell you you can't possibly get to the next point in schedule anyway?
21:47:13 <drac_boy> just asking anyhow, its not like I actually want this feature now
21:49:08 <michi_cc> The boat thing isn't a good example as it is only in there because of pathfinder implementation limitations. Aircraft in OTTD always travel on a fixed, deterministic path. No kind of obstacle, other vehicle or anything can change that, so (ignoring the waiting loops at the destination airport) the travel distance is fixed.
21:49:31 * Zuu nocies that the ball is probably on him to update FS#5230 for next review. (Its a patch that is a pre-step before my main patch that fix/implement break-on-log for NoGo)
21:51:07 <Yexo> ping me this weekend and I'll look at it
21:51:49 <Zuu> It is actually quite neat (the main patch). It adds the ability for a game to progress while an AI or NoGo is paused.
21:52:20 <Yexo> if you want to, you can commit the changes required to use A*6
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22:45:50 <drush> I think the port will need some patches, configure misses some include dirs, 100% sure of it
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22:52:18 <planetmaker> lol. That's likely, drush
22:52:29 <planetmaker> Please feel free and encouraged to supply needed patches
22:52:37 <planetmaker> There's no dev who can maintain or test that
22:53:05 <drush> planetmaker that's why I mailed openttd.org asking about benchmarking
22:53:32 <drush> because after the building is done I'd definitely like to establish a set of CFLAGS that make the finest build
22:53:39 <planetmaker> ah. I recall that mail
22:53:42 <drush> for that particular platform
22:54:10 <planetmaker> finest = fastest? smallest memory? smallest file size? combination?
22:54:38 <drush> for a gaming console, fastest
22:54:52 <drush> unless there will be popular demand for a smaller memory footprint
22:55:16 <planetmaker> I have an openttd server which crashed on me with oom on a 256MB VM
22:55:20 <drush> ps3 was designed for multitasking
22:56:09 <drush> as for the 256MB RAM issue,
22:56:27 <drush> I think it's possible to allocate a temporary swap in gameos
22:57:07 <drush> multiMAN (backup manager) allocates 2GB of hdd for some reason and treats it as a separate drive, I take that as a hint
22:57:15 <planetmaker> anyway... I guess you have to test the speed. And yes, we definitely ARE interested in such comparisons
22:57:59 <planetmaker> a good place to do / discuss so would be the development section in our forums
22:59:27 <drush> planetmaker I've yet to see if ottd runs in ps3linux
23:00:05 <drush> if it runs there (212 MB RAM due to being in a vm, also no hardware GL), it will run in gameos
23:00:32 <planetmaker> Needed RAM is mostly defined by the map size. So... playing small will make a difference
23:01:14 <drush> afaik vanilla ottd has max map of 2Kx2K?
23:09:19 <planetmaker> anyway... good night
23:16:32 <drush> also, if this reaches your scrollback, I just tried openttd with default options on my corei7,
23:17:07 <drush> and starting a 2Kx2K map makes the exe use 57.1MB of memory
23:18:07 <drush> memory peaked to 110MB during autosave
23:32:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, autosave duplicates the map
23:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> as a rough estimate, the map uses 9 bytes per tile
23:33:06 <Eddi|zuHause> plus what external storage there is for vehicles and industries etc.
23:33:36 <Eddi|zuHause> in busy games, cargo may take up a great deal of memory
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