IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-05-09
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05:52:06 <andythenorth> ^ not that ottd is about money :P
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08:36:03 <Dwarden> hi everyone, question what installer is used by openttd, is it reusable for other projects?
08:38:51 <TinoDidriksen> Dwarden, it's probably NSIS
08:44:03 <Dwarden> is the script somewhere to study?
08:44:51 <Dwarden> i know it, i mean the script used by openTTD
08:45:07 <Dwarden> looking just for specific portion
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08:45:30 <TinoDidriksen> Oh, maybe somewhere in the source repo.
08:45:31 <Dwarden> aka hows done the download
08:45:49 <TinoDidriksen> The NSIS page also has lots of examples, including downloading.
08:45:50 <Dwarden> of openMSX/openSFX/openGFX
08:47:47 <TinoDidriksen> Using the nsisdl::download command.
08:50:31 <Dwarden> hmm thanks, will check it out
08:50:47 <Dwarden> tho script from openttd would be still welcome sample ;)
08:51:14 <Dwarden> ah so that's the NSIDll http plugin
08:57:56 <Dwarden> thanks Cornishpasty a lot, i feel like nub now , wish i knew it's in trac
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09:49:47 <TELK> Excuse me, is the connection of openttd.org well?
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10:39:03 <Ammler> Rubidium: /home/abuild/rpmbuild/BUILD/openttd-1.2.0/config.lib: line 2872: [: 4.: integer expression expected
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10:52:01 <Eddi|zuHause> is that how swiss people spell that?
10:52:31 <planetmaker> Ammler: that line has been unchanged for 3000 revs...
10:52:46 <Ammler> planetmaker: it might depend on the icu
10:53:42 <Ammler> it's no big issue, icu is deteced, why I don't make a fs post
10:53:48 <planetmaker> so you might want to tell us about your ICU version and the output which is (unsuccessfully) tried to parse
10:53:59 <planetmaker> well. DO make an FS entry
10:54:05 <planetmaker> with the above info
10:54:15 <planetmaker> icu version and the output you get
10:54:30 <planetmaker> the info you provide is... rather little more than 'I get an error'
10:55:06 <Ammler> build:~> icu-config --version
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10:55:50 <planetmaker> well, please do make an FS entry
10:56:07 <Ammler> looks rather like a bug in suse icu
10:56:41 <planetmaker> that I don't know
10:56:47 <Hazzard> How does the titlegame work?
10:57:05 <planetmaker> but probably it should read 4.9.1 instead of 49.1
10:57:32 <Ammler> well it is how the .so is called so.49
10:57:50 <planetmaker> is that stable suse or the 'tubleweed' dev version?
10:59:05 <planetmaker> so it's nothing released but buggy icu?
10:59:14 <Ammler> tumbleweed is just a collection of some dev snapshot repos
11:00:20 <planetmaker> so the question is: is icu version info broken or is it changed on purpose?
11:00:43 <Ammler> or should openttd be able to handle such version change?
11:00:53 <planetmaker> not, if it's a bug
11:01:24 <Ammler> well, 49.1 is still a valid version string
11:02:03 <Ammler> but as said, icu is still detected
11:02:04 <planetmaker> is is. but it's different format than the existing 4.6.2 or so
11:02:30 <planetmaker> Ammler: with ICU the exact version is very important. It's one of those libraries which changes its ABI.
11:03:04 <planetmaker> and again the question: Is ICU broken or is it a general change which we'll find in the next stable release?
11:03:21 <Ammler> I know, it is one the libs, which mostly breaks building packages which have regression tests
11:06:46 <Ammler> as it does not break building, I will wait with fs until the error apears also on stable distro
11:09:48 <planetmaker> you should report the error to at least one, openttd or libicu. I think icu should not change its version info output
11:17:21 <planetmaker> seems that they DO want to change their versioning
11:20:53 <Ammler> ok, you still want me to create a fs or will you "take over"? :-)
11:30:07 <planetmaker> Ammler: could you try the attached diff I posted?
11:35:17 <Ammler> hmm, the sense on this is to use both on 49
11:35:27 <Ammler> that is why they changed it
11:35:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <Hazzard> How does the titlegame work? <-- it's a normal savegame that has been renamed to opntitle.dat
11:36:09 <Ammler> icu 4 is not compatible with icu 49
11:36:33 <Ammler> that is more like icu 5 if you want just one
11:39:29 <planetmaker> Ammler: that's why OpenTTD checks for the version number. Or you say we need to differ (for our purposes) between the versions > 3.6 ?
11:39:44 <planetmaker> (dunno, probably there are #ifdefs somewhere in the code)
11:39:47 <Hazzard> Eddi|zuHause: So it just runs in the background?
11:41:06 <Ammler> planetmaker: if I read it right, openttd does already merge 4.6 to 46
11:41:20 <planetmaker> that it does, yes
11:41:22 <Ammler> so the new versioning is what openttd wants/needs
11:41:40 <planetmaker> yes. And my patch ensures that it ends up there in all cases
11:49:33 <Ammler> planetmaker: it does not work with version 100.2.3
11:50:00 <Ammler> but well, that might not be needed :-P
11:50:13 <planetmaker> it won't work with 100.2.3
11:52:07 <Ammler> planetmaker: be also aware that this "fix" needs to be backported
11:52:45 <planetmaker> should be no issue
11:53:46 <Rubidium> IIRC ICU came with the great idea some time not so long ago to just drop the dots from their version numbers
11:53:58 <Rubidium> because 4.9 is harder to comprehend than 49
11:54:18 <Rubidium> especially since each version is binary INcompatible with another version
11:54:38 <planetmaker> yeah. should I just commit that fix to the version detection, Rubidium? We should be safe till ICU 100 ;-)
11:55:22 <Ammler> I guess, they also want to avoid 4 version parts
11:56:16 <planetmaker> should be unaffected by the current version detection for ICU, Ammler
11:56:40 <Ammler> yeah, just meant could be a reason for the change
11:57:13 <Ammler> since 2nd part already made it incompatible no need to split it
11:57:52 <planetmaker> we should then release openttd 121 next ;-)
11:58:08 <Ammler> no issue, as long as it is > as 1
11:59:24 <Ammler> just use the svn rev :-P
12:12:36 <Ammler> he, and welcome Fiky :-)
12:21:11 <planetmaker> I like the conversation, though
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12:47:22 <swissfan91> does anyone have any idea how to 1) draw glass properly in OTTD and 2) how to draw it WRT being able to see the train though it in a station tile
12:47:31 <Someus> Hi! Is there a faster way to upgrade trains to newer?
12:49:43 <Hazzard> Someus: IN the vehicle list click on the dropdown menu and press "replace vehicles"
12:50:17 <Someus> Do i need to take them to depot?
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12:52:41 <Someus> Does it take a lot of time to replace them?
12:52:50 <Someus> I pressed replace and now i am waiting :)
12:53:09 <Hazzard> It takes as long a normal maintence does
12:54:12 <Someus> I pressed but nothing happens :/
12:55:08 <Someus> I sent them all to depot
12:55:58 <Hazzard> Did you choose which vehicles to be replaced in the replace vehicles popup?
12:58:31 <Someus> Yes i have 13 UU'37 vehicles
12:59:35 <Someus> I press start vehicle replacing
13:00:06 <Someus> Trains don`t seem to replace
13:01:52 <Someus> I found this in wiki: Your vehicles will not all be sent to depots for replacement as soon as you click Start Replacing Vehicles. Instead, they will be replaced during their next regular servicing in a depot.
13:01:53 <Eddi|zuHause> they need to pass a depot when their service interval runs out
13:03:07 <Hazzard> Are you sure you chose the correct vehicle types you want to be replacing?
13:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and are you sure you set it for all vehicles, not only for one group of vehicles?
13:04:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and are you sure they actually find a depot?
13:04:27 <Someus> As wiki stated: They don`t change immediately
13:05:03 <Someus> They changed successfuly!
13:07:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you can send them to depot manually, if you are that impatient
13:09:18 <Someus> My trains keep blowing up opponents buses :) haha
13:13:19 <Hazzard> That's actually one problem with multiplayer
13:27:21 <Someus> How can I get better rating?
13:27:38 <Someus> I can`t make it better
13:30:22 <Hazzard> Might be the RV crashes
13:30:35 <Hazzard> Those are a big minus for station ratings
13:31:10 <Someus> AI's always has outstanding ratings :/ :D
13:32:10 <Someus> Is it important to build station near as possible to city center or resources?
13:32:32 <Hazzard> Doesn't matter for industries
13:32:55 <Hazzard> but if you are in the center of a city, there are going to be a lot more passengers, which can be good or bad
13:35:08 <Hazzard> Your station might be closer to the RV crashes
14:03:30 <Someus> How can i dig water? :)
14:04:59 <Someus> I guess i can`t dig it in middle
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16:23:03 <Eddi|zuHause> someone needs to get up on this Envisat and press Ctrl+Alt+Del to reboot it...
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17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24217 /trunk/src/lang/belarusian.txt:
17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by Wowanxm
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18:37:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24218 /trunk/src/lang/croatian.txt: -Fix: unbreak Croatian language
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19:02:09 <supermop> hey planetmaker; could the fenced land object in ogfx have a random variety of trees rather than just one pine?
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19:11:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24219 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [FS#5152]: immediately do the cargo payment on vehicle crashes instead of when they are cleared
19:13:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r24220 /trunk/config.lib: -Change: Adopt ICU version detection to also deal with the new versioning scheme since ICU 49
19:13:55 <planetmaker> supermop: yes, it could
19:14:09 <planetmaker> and tbh, it should
19:14:37 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24221 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix [FS#5166]: Lag counters were not properly reset when switching states making it possible to get disconnected for lagging when you weren't lagging
19:16:53 <supermop> i think both are good
19:17:12 <supermop> a grid of pines looks like a typical planted/reforested area,
19:17:25 <supermop> and wild trees looks like a preserved area
19:17:26 <planetmaker> oh, you mean the placement.
19:17:47 <planetmaker> yes, both is feasible. Just possibly a lot more work
19:18:07 <supermop> i dont mid one view being all regular pines, and the other being different trees
19:18:19 <planetmaker> as it needs to take care of the slopes and the the placement. Thus 19 * trees * randomess of placement
19:18:43 <supermop> i like using the fenced land as nature preserve, to contain wild town growth
19:18:54 <planetmaker> luckily grf v8 and related newgrf features make some things there (much) easier. Still :-)
19:19:29 <planetmaker> My idea actually is to offer 4 versions of it: empty, random trees, and maybe one or two tree kinds which are like a plantation
19:19:40 <supermop> i am guessing it is way to much to ask for tree'd land to simply buy the land while leaving whatever happens to be there
19:20:28 <planetmaker> that's actually not feasible
19:24:19 <supermop> that was more of a dream about habing cake and eating it too
19:25:14 <supermop> the idea being that buying up pristine forest hurts your rating, but not as much as cutting the trees outright
19:25:52 <supermop> however, you receive a tiny boost to your rating as long as you keep the trees uncut
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19:47:31 <Someus> IS there a znc on this network?
19:50:07 <Someus> Maybe someone offering?
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20:07:02 <planetmaker> Someus: several people use it on their own servers
20:07:12 <planetmaker> for their own private use usually only, though
20:28:27 <planetmaker> Someus: you may or may not agree. But for sure people here do.
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20:40:00 <Someus> You don't know what people do
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20:40:40 <Someus> Are you OpenTTD developer?
20:43:46 <Belugas> i sure do believe he is
20:44:32 <Belugas> as would confirm the contat page of openttd
20:46:47 <Someus> What's new in next release?
20:47:09 <Belugas> new stuff and bug fixes
20:47:23 <Belugas> something that is running every night (when it does)
20:48:50 <Someus> i mean you have nightly release
20:49:23 <Belugas> so you know the answwer:)
20:50:34 <FLHerne> ...which is released most nights, and so contains the absolutely most recent features (am I stating the obvious?)
20:51:07 <Someus> I don`t like graphics on zoom
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20:57:14 <Someus> Are there ideas about new vehicle types?
20:57:36 <FLHerne> That's what NewGRFs are for :P
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20:58:59 <Someus> I don't know much about them
20:59:05 <Someus> Can you suggest me NewGRF ?
20:59:49 <FLHerne> I use rather a lot. Try looking at the screenshots subforum for examples of good ones (you could even look at mine :D )
21:00:22 <Someus> I've been playing this game a very little
21:00:44 <FLHerne> Assuming you can use a forum, just find it from the links I already posted :P
21:00:47 <Someus> And i like it despite today's offered mmo games
21:00:59 <Someus> FLHerne just give me link to yours
21:02:44 <planetmaker> you don't link to newgrfs... you better just use the ingame content download and look at them
21:03:32 <planetmaker> enable "vehicles never expire" and start a game in the year > 2050 and you'll usually see all vehicles which a vehicle newgrf can offer
21:05:19 <FLHerne> Which are good or not is subjective. What I consider interesting is probably not the same for you.
21:05:37 <FLHerne> Just try a variety and see what you like...
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21:10:09 <FLHerne> Indeed. Probably look at the forum to find out what things are before trying to download everything :P
21:12:08 <Chris_Booth> no download everything!
21:12:20 <FLHerne> In OTTD, general use of the Internet, or both?
21:12:21 <Chris_Booth> then load it all on one 2048^2 map!
21:12:48 <supermop> gsah i had something to tell andy
21:13:01 <FLHerne> Chris_Booth: Several people reported bugs on the forum after doing just that :-(
21:13:58 <Chris_Booth> FLHerne: maybe Bananas should come with an idiot disclaimer XD
21:14:20 * FLHerne remembers a quote about underetimating the ability of complete fools
21:14:34 <FLHerne> s/etimating/estimating , even
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21:30:11 <HackaLittleBit> frosch123:Land generator and variety distribution, I consider more advanced, what more do you consider 'advanced'? fs5147
21:31:10 <frosch123> tree algorithm and rivers
21:31:13 <HackaLittleBit> should only be visible when you choose arctic climate
21:31:18 <frosch123> and road vehicle side
21:31:24 <frosch123> nothing you want to change every day
21:31:48 <frosch123> well, road vehicle side is easy to understand
21:31:56 <frosch123> but who cares about tree algorithm :)
21:32:12 <frosch123> variety distribution and landgen type are hard to understand
21:32:29 <HackaLittleBit> I just foud out today
21:32:30 <frosch123> and river count is actually quite useless, since the amount of rivers depends a lot more on smoothness :p
21:32:50 <frosch123> map edges might also be advanced
21:33:07 <frosch123> not sure about snow line, might be non-advanced
21:34:24 <HackaLittleBit> I do think you should leave those things, It is nice to tinker with and if you do not like the map , just delete it :)
21:34:55 <HackaLittleBit> only tree algorithem should disapear
21:35:16 <HackaLittleBit> who gives a sh..
21:36:37 <supermop> trees should be grouped by species
21:37:13 <supermop> at least there should be different restrictions on different types
21:38:20 <HackaLittleBit> supermop: Only today I found out that 'variety distribution' was not for trees :)
21:39:35 <HackaLittleBit> but grouping by species is highly desired here
21:39:53 <HackaLittleBit> or according to height
21:45:46 <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: What about renaming 'Terrain type' in 'Terrain' and adding two more options. 1 Totally Flat and 2 From Heightmap. Eliminat 2 buttons on top
21:46:33 <frosch123> i think heightmap should be separate
21:46:41 <frosch123> it's very different from the other things
21:46:45 <frosch123> more like a scenario
21:47:01 <frosch123> totally flat is fine for se
21:47:10 <frosch123> but personally i don't like it for new games
21:47:27 <frosch123> i want to force players to play on interesting maps :p
21:48:47 <HackaLittleBit> I tested a bit and I cant see so many difference between 'Flat' and 'Very flat'
21:49:14 <HackaLittleBit> I think one should be enough
21:49:31 <frosch123> the problem with the map settings is, that they depend a lot on each other
21:49:47 <frosch123> so the difference of flat and very flat depends on climate, variety, smoothness, and maybe even more
21:50:07 <frosch123> e.g. tropic is generally flat, while artic is generally hilly
21:50:24 <frosch123> very smooth is generally more flat
21:50:35 <frosch123> and high variety distribution is also likely to be very flat in parts
21:50:58 <HackaLittleBit> Yeah I saw that in the wiki
21:51:46 <HackaLittleBit> So that is why cutting more options is difficult
21:52:22 <frosch123> i don't think more options within a dropdown are an issue
21:52:23 <Someus> I can't wait for 32-bit graphics
21:52:42 <frosch123> but dropdowns which are hard to get the meaning of are :)
21:52:58 <HackaLittleBit> That is next discussion
21:53:25 <frosch123> Someus: easy to get used to. many people are waiting for them for like 6 years
21:54:20 <HackaLittleBit> frosch123:What I proposed is technically feasable, without to much hassle?
21:54:38 <frosch123> what do you mean specifically?
21:54:56 <frosch123> the hiding of widgets depending on the selection of others?
21:55:06 <HackaLittleBit> well hiding options, changing screen size on the fly
21:55:06 <frosch123> we have such stuff in the orders window
21:55:43 <frosch123> so, yes, changing size and expanding stuff is no problem
21:56:17 <HackaLittleBit> But do you agree with layout?
21:56:51 <HackaLittleBit> Can't do much more there
21:57:06 <HackaLittleBit> or you have to specifically ask
21:58:01 <Someus> Hmmm.. are there any other type of transport? :)
21:58:13 <frosch123> my main concern is that there should be some room for advanced settings, which are hidden
21:58:19 <Someus> We have plaines, buses, trains, ships, what else we have?
21:58:41 <frosch123> making everything visible to the new user seems too much
21:58:58 <frosch123> Someus: trams, various other train types
21:59:20 <HackaLittleBit> ok, I have to think
21:59:47 <frosch123> Someus: so, you might have narrow gauge, or metro, ...
22:00:08 <frosch123> heqs are also different from other trucks
22:01:02 <HackaLittleBit> frosch123: would it be possible with advanced button to show up more items on the screen?
22:02:16 <frosch123> sure, it's technically the same as hiding single comboboxes
22:02:27 <frosch123> or like the general window shading we have
22:02:32 <HackaLittleBit> ok I'll come back to you
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22:12:14 <Someus> We need 32-bit graphics :))))
22:12:30 <Someus> My eyes hurt acutally :/
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22:40:31 <planetmaker> Someus: we have them. Partially. And we need people who draw and model and code them!
22:42:50 <Someus> It would be great to play 32bit graphics
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22:52:34 <TinoDidriksen> Any way you like...
22:52:54 <Someus> I have no idea how to draw them :)
22:53:09 <Someus> It would be easier with hand
22:53:16 <Someus> pencil and paper :))))
22:59:17 <Someus> quite a time 6 years :))))
23:00:22 <planetmaker> then do that. And then scan it.
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23:06:11 <Someus> What do you need to draw?
23:09:55 <planetmaker> What do you miss?
23:10:10 <planetmaker> Which sprites have no 32bpp version and which you want to have one? ;-)
23:10:36 <Someus> Well you know the answer about sprites :)
23:10:44 <Someus> I don`t know which have no 32bpp version
23:12:05 <Someus> Did you code yourself?
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