IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-04-29
⏴ go to previous day
00:26:46 *** goodger has joined #openttd
00:31:02 *** Stimrol has joined #openttd
01:22:03 *** Stimrol_ has joined #openttd
01:24:18 *** LordPixaII has joined #openttd
01:44:08 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
02:01:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
02:22:54 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
02:47:48 *** kkb110_ has joined #openttd
03:11:31 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
03:13:14 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
03:26:18 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
03:57:04 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
04:42:02 *** peteris has joined #openttd
04:43:20 *** adamkex has joined #openttd
04:43:35 <adamkex> is there a limit on how much an oil refinery can produce?
04:46:38 <adamkex> because mine is producing 350,000 which is a very round number
04:56:17 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
04:57:59 *** telanus has joined #openttd
06:00:25 <adamkex> sorry 350 not 350,000
06:18:25 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
06:26:44 *** Alberth has joined #openttd
06:26:45 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Alberth
06:27:42 <Alberth> Gooooooooooood mornng #openttd!
06:28:19 *** TWerkhoven has joined #openttd
06:46:44 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
06:50:01 *** Progman has joined #openttd
06:59:22 <andythenorth> some industries shouldn't be available after certain dates
06:59:36 <andythenorth> that used to be the case :)
07:01:49 <andythenorth> Alberth: so if an industry closed, does that increase the chance for a new industry type to be built?
07:03:53 <Alberth> currently, the number of opened industries is more or less constant (it slowly increases in time), so if an industry closes, there is room to build a new one. That is currently a weighted chance (most lacking have a bigger chance).
07:04:21 <Alberth> I am not entirely sure that the latter is a good choice, perhaps the chance should be spread more evenly
07:05:27 <andythenorth> I can use the extended results here to try and force build
07:09:09 <Alberth> nice, dynamic probabilities!
07:09:52 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps the fruit thingie needs water?
07:10:26 <andythenorth> might need 'not desert' though
07:10:52 *** curtana has joined #openttd
07:10:58 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttd
07:12:22 <Alberth> fruit needs grassy stuff, maize is not listed as such at the wiki
07:13:46 <Alberth> hmm, perhaps also look into industry chains in the decision what to build :p
07:20:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: analyse broken chains?
07:21:24 <andythenorth> did you know that cb 14B and 14C break the industry chains gui?
07:21:26 <Alberth> there is no use to build many factories if you don't have fruit / maize thingies
07:22:26 <Alberth> oh, more ways to break it :)
07:22:37 <Alberth> I thought tile acceptance was the only way :)
07:22:54 <andythenorth> they've been around a while, but I don't know if they were used until FIRS Recycling Depot
07:23:25 <Alberth> The problem is that the industry chain gui assumes an industry-type implies consistent input/output cargoes
07:23:47 <Alberth> otherwise you have to drop down to individual industries, which makes the entire gui useless
07:24:23 <Alberth> ie you'd have to display the links at a map or so
07:24:53 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
07:27:59 <andythenorth> 'types this industry might accept / produce' ?
07:28:23 <andythenorth> or some kind of table, when an industry is constructed, it writes it's actual types to the table?
07:28:36 <Alberth> you could duplicate industry types for each combination of input/output cargoes
07:29:32 <Alberth> oh, I don't know. I was thinking GUI only
07:32:14 <andythenorth> I don't like the idea of duplicating the actual industries ;)
07:45:53 *** adamkex_ has joined #openttd
07:54:21 *** telanus1 has joined #openttd
08:09:53 * andythenorth thinks industry types should close when outdated
08:11:30 <NGC3982> im watching this documentary
08:11:45 <NGC3982> they are trying to move a 70 year old plow engine up a mountain
08:11:50 <NGC3982> without it running, that is
08:12:38 <NGC3982> 30.000 to move the 100T engine four kilometers.
08:14:14 <Alberth> so what teaches you that about the world?
08:15:11 <NGC3982> not more then that hydraulics is a nice invention.
08:16:18 <NGC3982> lets see if i can figure out the model
08:16:57 <NGC3982> its a southern padicif rotary snow plow, at least.
08:17:51 *** tokai|mdlx has joined #openttd
08:18:05 <andythenorth> why is it going up a mountain?
08:18:23 <NGC3982> there seems to be some kind of museum
08:18:24 *** adamkex_ is now known as adamkex
08:20:54 <andythenorth> docks on river banks?
08:22:41 <andythenorth> apologies about the spanish translation :)
08:37:09 <adamkex> is it possible to make the camera follow a train?
08:38:52 <andythenorth> ctrl-click on the eye icon
08:39:06 <andythenorth> in the vehicle window
08:41:55 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
08:44:07 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
08:47:41 *** Doorslammer has joined #openttd
08:50:50 *** LordPixaII is now known as Pixa
08:52:43 <andythenorth> we need to fix the bridge spec
08:52:53 <andythenorth> my toddler is obsessed with building bridges in game
08:53:11 <andythenorth> his requests include:
08:53:13 *** telanus has joined #openttd
08:53:16 <andythenorth> - bridges up and down hills
08:59:39 <andythenorth> all the code I need is already in FIRS, ready to use
08:59:46 <andythenorth> just defines needed setting :)
09:24:56 <Terkhen> andythenorth: yes, IIRC we decided on a new templating format
09:27:03 <planetmaker> the old template iirc was not groundaware. Thus these new ones were devised
09:40:14 <andythenorth> can we migrate old ones?
09:46:30 <Terkhen> that's a lot of work :P
09:48:46 <planetmaker> we can. But not for 'no reason'. For the reason Terkhen said
09:49:00 <planetmaker> After all: if it works, it works. Never touch a running system
09:49:36 <andythenorth> it's much harder to add snow sprites, ground detail and animation if there are two methods ;)
09:49:42 * Alberth refrains from touching the advanced settings :p
09:50:00 <andythenorth> can we refactor as necessary?
09:50:04 <andythenorth> and not otherwise?
09:50:48 <planetmaker> andythenorth: Adding snow sprites, ground detail, ... should all be done by the new method.
09:50:51 <planetmaker> That's what it's for
09:50:56 <andythenorth> and maybe change the ticket that says 'existing uses of it should be converted to the new format' :D
09:51:01 <planetmaker> The old method should stay as long as those are not added, though
09:51:36 <planetmaker> well. Not should but could
09:52:01 <planetmaker> But changing that is a lot of work without any visual or gameplay difference
09:52:28 <andythenorth> all I need is (1) to know which layout to use (2) to learn how to migrate old to new
09:52:29 <andythenorth> (3) to close that ticket :P
09:52:45 <planetmaker> Basically the two templates are in different files, so the name should give away which is used
09:53:25 <planetmaker> The new contains "groundaware"
09:57:23 * andythenorth is trying to the bug-closing and refactoring finished, at least for open tickets ;)
09:58:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: we need a solution to this
09:59:57 <andythenorth> hmm, default forest has no good indicator either :|
10:01:02 <andythenorth> the problem is much worse with opengfx for some reason
10:01:35 <andythenorth> forest is very hard to see
10:05:18 <andythenorth> every time I test something with OpenGFX, I get an itch to fix it
10:05:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i have a "feture request": at the bottom of a ticket there are these "Edit", "Copy", etc. links. can it be changed so inbetween these links are regular spaces instead of non-breaking spaces?
10:06:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you'd need to patch redmine?
10:06:39 <andythenorth> opengfx landscape, water very nice
10:06:46 <andythenorth> trees, too realistic for me, but nice
10:06:58 <andythenorth> buildings....could try harder ;)
10:11:22 <planetmaker> andythenorth: then DO fix it ;-)
10:11:40 <planetmaker> though I actually like the OpenGFX trees much more
10:11:56 <planetmaker> yes, they're partially my work :-P
10:12:12 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
10:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc arcsin(pi/6)
10:13:14 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Error: 'arcsin' is not a defined function.
10:13:18 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc asin(pi/6)
10:13:18 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 0.551069583099
10:13:26 <andythenorth> so the FIRS forest with opengfx - not pine trees?
10:13:33 <andythenorth> [in temperate at least]
10:14:09 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 6*cos(pi/6)
10:14:09 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 5.19615242271
10:14:15 <planetmaker> yes, the tropical ones are not really done to my satisfaction yet
10:14:26 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
10:18:38 <drac_boy> andythenorth just asking but do you think other climates than tropical should be able to have bushes too? I can't recall ever seeing any in temperate
10:19:12 <Eddi|zuHause> that is only a matter of graphics, isn't it?
10:22:27 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i understand it, they use a timestamp with predictably large granularity and seed a 48-bit RNG with a 32-bit value
10:22:30 <drac_boy> eddi you're right..I was just wondering if more than tropical should be able to have bushes already :)
10:22:56 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: if you draw it, they will :)
10:25:07 <drac_boy> heh not sure about my scale being used by others but we'll see about that tho :)
10:31:08 <andythenorth> tropical has cacti?
10:36:48 <andythenorth> I should find a way to prevent English GB in Tropical for FIRS
10:36:51 <andythenorth> it's plain weird
10:45:32 <drac_boy> guess I'll probably find out later then
10:54:16 * drac_boy at least made a bit more progress on the grf table .. not so much in way of sprites yet
10:54:47 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
11:07:01 *** TWerkhoven[l] has joined #openttd
11:08:04 <andythenorth> FIRS 0.7.5 is nearly ready :P
11:08:16 <andythenorth> maybe I should add more tickets
11:09:03 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
11:12:35 <Terkhen> andythenorth: are you planning to include more changes to strings?
11:19:01 <andythenorth> I might try and do something about industry closure texts
11:19:05 <andythenorth> and parameters might change
11:22:46 *** frosch123 has joined #openttd
11:23:15 <Terkhen> I'll finish everything today, if you change something else please drop me a line
11:25:21 <frosch123> good afternoon drac_boy :)
11:26:14 <drac_boy> frosch123 wrong time zone words btw :p
11:27:14 <frosch123> what are you doing here so early then?
11:27:31 <drac_boy> dunno, just wanted see if there were anything interesting going on and apparently there was :)
11:27:32 <frosch123> (likely inappropiate queston)
11:27:51 <drac_boy> heh nah its ok... just for the record I usually sleep 9-11pm to 6-7am most days
11:28:21 <xahodo> Hello, how does openttd deal with newgrfs internally? Do they just get interpreted again and again or do they get... sort of... compiled?
11:28:56 <drac_boy> frosch123 sometimes something in here sorta gives me an idea of what to look for in my ongoing grf work as well. you know? :)
11:30:03 <frosch123> xahodo: half of newgrfs is only processed when loading, the rest is a decision tree which is stored - well - as a tree
11:30:47 <xahodo> so, that makes it sort of compiled?
11:30:51 <frosch123> so, ottd reads the grf only once, but i would not call that compiling
11:31:09 <cypher> IcE-M : tak jsem přišel jakože na poradu a nikde nikdo, jo?
11:31:18 <cypher> crap, wrong channel :(
11:31:23 <frosch123> compiling sounds like bytecode, but that term imo makes only sense for imperative languages, which newgrfs aren't
11:31:37 <drac_boy> heh cypher this is english for most part ;)
11:32:04 <cypher> drac_boy : and who's fault is that? Huh?
11:32:23 <drac_boy> no idea...who first wrote the channel topic probably could tell you
11:32:29 <frosch123> we should have a czech day somewhen :)
11:32:30 <drac_boy> Alberth like I said :p
11:32:48 <drac_boy> frosch123 if you're going to do that then don't forget french, german, and japan other days :P
11:32:58 <drac_boy> especially considering they're related to grfs .. such as dbsetxl
11:33:02 <frosch123> french and japan also works
11:33:03 <xahodo> frosch123: thanks for the answer.
11:33:17 <frosch123> but i would understand german, so it would not be as quiet for me
11:36:04 <cypher> Let's make an esperanto day. It'd be fun to see all the people not being able to talk to each other.
11:36:50 <frosch123> we have 93.3% of an esperanto translation
11:36:56 <frosch123> so we could c&p parts of it
11:37:46 <cypher> Or we could hook Google Translate to the IRC server and automatically translate everything to Esperanto.
11:43:09 <frosch123> automatik translations only work to translator foreign languages into your own, not the other way around
11:44:06 <frosch123> because then you can check the translation and see whether it makes sense and check individual sentences in detail if they make no sense
11:44:23 <frosch123> however, if you translate your language into some other, you cannot tell whether it is total rubbish
11:45:04 <frosch123> so, automatic translations only work if the receiver of the message uses them
11:45:30 <__ln__> you can check if sentences make sense in your own language, but without knowing the source language you don't know if the meaning is retained
11:46:45 *** goodger has joined #openttd
11:47:41 <cypher> frosch123 : I don't really care wether it's total rubbish, because no one here (i believe) would understand esperanto anyway.
11:47:52 <cypher> And if someone does, I don't really want to talk to that kind of person :D
11:49:47 <Terkhen> the esperanto translation of OpenTTD is outdated by just a year or so; I suppose that we have or had players that can understand esperanto
11:49:55 <andythenorth> frosch123: so wrt terraforming, for large flat industries, I could check for all tiles being same height level, but allow any land shape under them
11:50:06 <andythenorth> it has some problems when I don't want to show foundations at the edge
11:50:19 <andythenorth> I might try it as I assume it can be done in newgrf already
11:51:12 <andythenorth> might turn out I have to write an insane number of varact 2s though, specific to each layout
11:51:40 <Alberth> Terkhen: they also have to use the esperantoe language :)
11:54:39 <xahodo> Is Klingon translation a good idea?
11:55:20 <Terkhen> if you are bored enough and making such translation entertains you, then yes
11:55:30 <Terkhen> I doubt that it would get much use, though
11:56:32 <drac_boy> actually I do have a bit better idea
11:56:48 <drac_boy> take the english translation and change it to reflect gungan grammars? :)
11:57:03 <drac_boy> (and yes that is from starwars)
11:58:21 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to have a piglatin translation
12:00:24 <__ln__> drac_boy: yousa knowsa, george lucas would sue wesa
12:00:48 <andythenorth> if each tile checks 8 surrounding tiles for same height level....
12:01:02 <andythenorth> all industry tiles would be level, and no foundations would show
12:04:52 <andythenorth> alternatively, set an additional flag: shape check used, but terraform anyway.
12:04:59 <andythenorth> allowing game to flatten ground for industry
12:07:49 <drac_boy> sorta somewhat on-topic but any of you think the Razer mouses are decent for both desktop and light game useages? (latter also including patch/ottd too hm? ;) )
12:09:06 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that'll be so complicated that it's useless
12:09:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the 'allow terraform' ?
12:09:47 <andythenorth> terraform is pretty useless anyway
12:09:55 <drac_boy> so any comment or no __ln__?
12:12:44 <__ln__> no idea, i've used mostly logitech mice since a long time.
12:13:02 <andythenorth> from wiki: It is sometimes more useful to know the height of the highest corner of the tile. This can be computed with "zz/8 + ((ss+15)/16)"
12:13:09 <andythenorth> "Why this works, and how to adjust for the different value range, are left as exercises for the reader."
12:13:47 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if you switch to grfv8, this can be simplified
12:13:59 <andythenorth> FIRS is v8 afaik
12:14:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in grfv8, heightlevels are not multiples of 8 anymore
12:14:39 <andythenorth> I'm having a look what nml does with them :)
12:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> might put a warning about that into the wiki
12:15:51 <andythenorth> so the height check is lowest corner, but industry tiles are drawn at height of highest corner
12:16:21 <andythenorth> so I do need to check for highest point being equal on all tiles
12:17:28 <andythenorth> hmm nearby_tile_height + 1?
12:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i believe you only need to substitute "zz/8" by "zz"
12:17:49 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that fails for flat tiles
12:18:15 <andythenorth> there's no short cut, I have to check the slope as well
12:18:31 <Zuu> Hmm, so when stepping through ScriptCompany::SetLoanAmount, the parameter loan changes its value while there is no modifying statement nor a function that possible could take a reference to it and modify it.
12:18:52 <Zuu> Yet, it changes value in the middle of the function, sometimes several times.
12:18:52 <andythenorth> can probably be checked with one nml expression, but I haven't figured it out yet :P
12:19:04 <Zuu> Is this some wierd compiler optimization?
12:19:45 * drac_boy whacks __ln__ the grammar police
12:22:58 <Zuu> Anyhow, ScriptCompany::SetLoanAmount appear to fail for no good reason.
12:25:00 <andythenorth> I have to check 8 tiles have same height as current
12:25:05 <andythenorth> and branch for flat or not flat
12:26:47 <andythenorth> if any tile has different height, return CB_RESULT_LOCATION_DISALLOW
12:26:51 * Zuu tries to compile a "release" build without optimization
12:28:41 <andythenorth> so first I need to get height of current tile and put in register
12:29:17 <andythenorth> then I need to go to each of 8 neighbouring tiles and subtract heights
12:29:24 <andythenorth> if not 0, disallow build
12:29:45 <andythenorth> and I need to check for slope or flat
12:29:56 <andythenorth> and this has to be a CPP varadic macro
12:35:33 <andythenorth> if I figure this nml out, will someone turn it into cpp? :o
12:37:38 * drac_boy isn't touching nml sorry
12:37:42 <drac_boy> have fun with someone else :)
12:47:05 <Zuu> Recompiling without optimization removed the wierd behaviour. And when calling the function in a scope where AITestMode is not actieve, it actually works as expected. :-)
12:47:41 <Zuu> What would you call a function that takes a generic action function as argument and will take more loan if needed? My best idea so far is ExecuteWithLoan.
12:48:22 <andythenorth> HEQS needs a revamp anyway. Maybe I declare FIRS 1.0 :P
12:50:21 <andythenorth> so what do I need to do to check 'height + tile is flat' ?
12:50:23 <andythenorth> ternary operator?
12:50:26 <andythenorth> some other magic?
12:50:50 <andythenorth> in python I would write:
12:51:09 <andythenorth> result = tileheight + (1, 0)[tile_is_flat]
12:52:30 <Alberth> ternary operator, I think
12:52:49 *** telanus1 has joined #openttd
12:53:23 <andythenorth> branching switches to do this seems....outdated thinking
12:55:20 <Alberth> result = tileheight + 1 - tile_is_flat :)
12:56:47 <andythenorth> flat is 0, and all other slopes set bits
12:56:53 <andythenorth> so a bit operation might do it
12:57:21 <andythenorth> what can I AND it with to get 0 or 1?
12:57:53 <Alberth> but that only tests the lowest bit
12:58:26 <Alberth> so you need a != 0 somewhere
12:58:50 <andythenorth> this would be trivial with 3 switches :P
12:59:02 <andythenorth> trying to do it in nml expressions is like playing 1-line python
12:59:08 <andythenorth> not sure it's a good game :(
12:59:21 <Alberth> at least not a fast one :)
13:00:03 <andythenorth> I have to do it in one switch, because I've no idea how to chain varadic macros in CPP
13:00:11 <andythenorth> so I can't create identifiers
13:01:20 <Alberth> a 0 case and a default (!=0) case ?
13:01:44 <andythenorth> the CPP is a limiting factor, even if I figure this out
13:02:27 <andythenorth> I need to reuse code, and CPP makes that hard :P
13:04:27 <andythenorth> life is too short
13:04:39 <andythenorth> play FIRS on flat maps, mountainous ones are too hard to support ;)
13:05:27 <andythenorth> this would be trivial with python; rewriting FIRS in python would not be
13:05:40 <andythenorth> it's a $1 solution to a $0.01 problem :P
13:07:43 *** kkb110_ has joined #openttd
13:10:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: so what's wrong with just reusing "zz+(ss+15)/16" how it was written on the wiki?
13:11:03 *** Zeknurn has joined #openttd
13:11:28 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: don't know how to wrap up it in CPP
13:11:50 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why would that need any specialized CPP skills?
13:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it's pure nml
13:12:02 <andythenorth> needs to be used by every industry
13:12:05 <andythenorth> which means a macro
13:12:19 <andythenorth> and the macros can only have one switch
13:12:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but you still put plain nml into the macro
13:12:31 <andythenorth> but I need 8 switches....
13:12:43 <andythenorth> to check 8 neighbouring tiles....
13:13:07 <Eddi|zuHause> but i already told you how to solve that
13:13:30 <andythenorth> did I miss that?
13:13:48 <andythenorth> in nfo I could have written advanced varact 2 all in one action to do this
13:14:10 <andythenorth> maybe I can do that in nml
13:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> nml can do that, just put a formula into the field
13:14:52 <andythenorth> might be a long formula :) let's see
13:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and why check 8 tiles? don't 4 suffice?
13:15:24 <andythenorth> if I do all 8, for free I get to prevent foundations showing
13:15:38 <andythenorth> which matters for industries like quarry where foundations look silly :)
13:17:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but you only need to check the slope for that, not the height of the tiles
13:17:52 *** ZxBiohazardZx has joined #openttd
13:17:54 <andythenorth> one check seems easier though
13:17:55 <Eddi|zuHause> and you need a way to prevent checking tiles outside the industry
13:18:08 <Eddi|zuHause> or you require flat land around the industry, which is not really favourable
13:18:23 <andythenorth> a 1 tile buffer of flat land is required around the industry
13:18:34 <andythenorth> if it's higher than industry, graphics will be garbled
13:18:43 <Eddi|zuHause> i reject this feature
13:18:44 <andythenorth> no way around that
13:18:56 <andythenorth> it's not a feature :P
13:19:04 <andythenorth> it's an attempted fix of current broken-ness
13:19:13 <ZxBiohazardZx> Eddi the default 1.2.0 game setting also requires 1 tile of flat around industries :P
13:19:20 <ZxBiohazardZx> or what that what you where discussing:P
13:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: yes. and i rejected that feature as well
13:19:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ZxBiohazardZx: that's why it's configurable now
13:19:32 * andythenorth thinks the 1 tile buffer might be overkill
13:19:55 <andythenorth> the slope check would prevent the graphics being garbled
13:19:59 <ZxBiohazardZx> Nat_aS around? or afk like yesterday
13:20:08 <ZxBiohazardZx> why do they garble in the first place?
13:20:40 *** Rhamphoryncus has joined #openttd
13:20:51 <andythenorth> yes, no 1 tile buffer needed *if* foundations are acceptable
13:21:08 <andythenorth> not even that in fact
13:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 20659
13:21:10 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r20659 /trunk/src (6 files in 4 dirs) (2010-08-28 18:37:49 UTC)
13:21:11 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Feature: make the (flat) area around an industry configurable (Eddi|zuHause)
13:21:24 * andythenorth should stop waking up at 2am and 5.30am daily
13:21:43 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you need to make your kid older :)
13:21:59 <andythenorth> I do that every day
13:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the quarry is already one of the most difficult to place industries in mountains
13:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: your change will make that even worse
13:22:26 <andythenorth> difficult / effectively impossible
13:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe make a sloped pikka-style quarry?
13:22:58 <andythenorth> in my tests of mountainous maps, quarry and clay pit are more likely to not be built than built
13:23:11 <andythenorth> it's easy to get a map with no pikka-style quarries either
13:23:19 <andythenorth> it requires very specific slopes
13:23:45 <andythenorth> I should make a sand/gravel mine and a clay mine
13:23:49 <andythenorth> deep mines are easy to place :P
13:24:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. they're not ECS-style :p
13:25:39 <andythenorth> there is historical precedent for mining clay underground, and even sand / gravel apparently
13:26:04 <andythenorth> I could take the processor building, and draw a tunnel entrance for various hillsides
13:26:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not convinced
13:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can make a "dry-quarry", and provide graphics for each slope shape
13:27:51 <Eddi|zuHause> then you don't need pikka-style slope requirements at all
13:27:56 <andythenorth> it requires an insane number of graphics
13:28:06 <andythenorth> about 164 last time I calculated it
13:28:24 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's the only sensible solution
13:28:50 <andythenorth> get someone to render it?
13:29:13 <andythenorth> if I could get this height check working, the number of locations would increase
13:29:32 <andythenorth> probably not sufficiently
13:29:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, it would decrease
13:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> because the game can not flatten anymore
13:29:52 <andythenorth> the game can't flatten anyway
13:30:05 <andythenorth> the terraform check is useless for FIRS
13:30:12 <andythenorth> shape check is used for ~all industries
13:30:24 <Eddi|zuHause> you should disable it then
13:30:42 <andythenorth> - terrain type checks
13:30:48 <andythenorth> - near town checks
13:30:52 <andythenorth> (not used by every industry)
13:31:02 <andythenorth> and check to prevent industries being built adjacent
13:31:10 <andythenorth> (used by ~every industry)
13:31:20 <andythenorth> ^ last one is essential to prevent gridlocked maps
13:31:27 <andythenorth> I spent a long time fixing that :P
13:32:07 <andythenorth> I provided a patch for the game to do same, but it was decided that it should be done by shape check
13:32:31 <andythenorth> so currently quarry requires *every* tile to be entirely flat
13:32:42 <andythenorth> the height check would therefore be *less* restrictive ;)
13:32:57 <andythenorth> unless I've misunderstood something, which is plausible tbh
13:34:31 <andythenorth> for sake of experimentation, let's disable shape check on quarry
13:38:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: so with shape check disabled, subjectively more quarries are built with following map settings:
13:38:24 <andythenorth> - mountainous, very rough, high water
13:38:39 <andythenorth> with a 0 tile buffer, I always get at least one quarry, usually more
13:38:51 <andythenorth> with a 1 tile buffer I always get 1 quarry, sometimes 2
13:39:02 <andythenorth> with a >1 tile buffer, no quarries so far :P
13:39:32 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
13:41:48 <andythenorth> the 1 tile check for other adjacent industries also prevents some pathological cases where industries overlap (because layouts have gaps in)
13:44:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but unless 2 quarries are placed next to each other, that won't matter, since the other industry will still use the check
13:44:22 <Eddi|zuHause> at least if the other industry comes second
13:45:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's worth leaving this out for this one industry
13:45:28 <Eddi|zuHause> you'll still have problems with other large industries such as aluminium or cement plant
13:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> but those are secondary industries
13:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so less of a problem
13:45:45 <andythenorth> I am concluding same about shape check
13:46:14 *** th_gergo has joined #openttd
13:47:26 <andythenorth> it's less painful than any of the alternatives
13:47:41 <andythenorth> what's your objection to a mine entrance?
13:48:28 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't feel right
13:49:31 <andythenorth> for sand and gravel it's all wrong :P
13:49:36 <andythenorth> for clay it's reasonably valid
13:49:43 <andythenorth> nobody goes sand mining
13:49:47 <andythenorth> there are...problems with it
13:50:28 <Eddi|zuHause> *horrible memories of minecraft sinking in*
13:52:59 <andythenorth> so there must be a reason industry var 62 is unsigned?
13:53:05 <andythenorth> even though that makes it almost useless
13:59:51 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i see the code, it's treated as signed
13:59:57 <Eddi|zuHause> like any other place
14:00:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or i'm misreading
14:00:57 <Eddi|zuHause> no... indeed, there's a parameter
14:01:48 <andythenorth> in theory I could run a convoluted set of checks from cb28 instead of cb2f
14:01:55 <andythenorth> to find adjacent industries
14:02:03 <andythenorth> but it would require offsets for every layout
14:02:24 <andythenorth> and only if the offsets can be signed ;)
14:10:25 <andythenorth> new industry tile property? bitmask of neighbouring tiles that must not have industry on at construction time
14:11:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you're overengineering this
14:11:34 <andythenorth> you're saying take the simple route?
14:12:03 <andythenorth> I don't disagree
14:16:22 *** robotboy has joined #openttd
14:18:23 <andythenorth> these are what the neighbouring industry tile check prevents :)
14:19:10 <andythenorth> number 12 is my favourite :)
14:20:05 <Alberth> don't we have a 'keep border around industry' setting?
14:21:37 <frosch123> Alberth: we only discussed it 10 times in this channel
14:21:55 <andythenorth> it was decided newgrf should take care of it
14:22:02 <andythenorth> which it can very well
14:22:07 <andythenorth> at expense of terraforming
14:22:12 <Alberth> luckily, I must have missed about 8 of them :)
14:26:37 * andythenorth reads industry_cmd.cpp
14:26:58 <andythenorth> I get why terraforming and shape check are mutually exclusive
14:27:04 <andythenorth> but maybe it should be at newgrf author's own risk
14:32:04 * andythenorth predicts that even if he can unpick this, he will get a very flat map
14:37:14 <andythenorth> so it appears to only terraform if it can't find a location?
14:37:19 *** Firartix has joined #openttd
14:37:48 <Zuu> Oh, Zuu the bot has been all over the forum now :-)
14:39:13 <Eddi|zuHause> it terraforms if it has maximum one heightlevel up or down
14:41:40 <andythenorth> it appears to just kind of work
14:42:00 <andythenorth> although I don't use custom shape check for intended purpose in FIRS
14:43:05 <andythenorth> apart from coasts, looking for specific slope combinations for industry tiles is foolhardy
14:45:28 *** Eddi|zuHause2 has joined #openttd
14:47:33 <andythenorth> mountainous, very rought, 80% water still defeats FIRS, even with terraform :P
14:51:13 <andythenorth> maybe if I could draw one massive sprite, placing quarries on hillsides would be easy
14:51:45 <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... 2nd time in 2 days that synchronization was lost
14:55:29 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
14:59:23 <frosch123> Zuu: i hope you did not consider becoming "tycoon" a challenge :)
15:00:37 <Zuu> frosch123: hehe, I'm already a "tycoon" so don't worry :-)
15:01:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> Nat_aS sighted in teh meantime?
15:07:28 <Alberth> yesterday he emerged from dr_tan :)
15:13:09 <andythenorth> so from non-scientific testing (hit newgame a lot of times) this is the most common adjacent industry case
15:13:42 <andythenorth> I could declare it a non-problem
15:13:51 <andythenorth> or use a conflicting industry check between them
15:13:55 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: opinion?
15:14:37 <andythenorth> removing the shape check gets these industries built on steep maps; adding a conflicting industry check would degrade that
15:15:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say live with it
15:15:41 <andythenorth> there are other cases, which irritate me
15:15:46 <andythenorth> but not as much as having no quarries
15:16:16 <andythenorth> I'm still considering a smaller layout though :P
15:21:18 <andythenorth> water pit looks silly if small :P
15:22:35 <Eddi|zuHause> can vary the length by like 2 tiles
15:23:07 *** Devroush has joined #openttd
15:23:18 <andythenorth> bizarrely it almost matches up if I do that
15:23:30 <andythenorth> george has done it for these sprites in ECS
15:28:31 *** kaenkky has joined #openttd
15:46:06 * andythenorth commits the terraforming change
15:46:12 <andythenorth> lesser of two evils
15:46:22 * andythenorth is not a big fan of compomise
15:47:47 <andythenorth> compromise is just as bad as over-engineering
15:47:52 <andythenorth> but cheaper in the short-term :P
16:23:47 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
16:26:14 *** oskari89 has joined #openttd
16:32:50 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
16:59:01 *** A57872761 has joined #openttd
17:19:10 *** Biolunar has joined #openttd
17:30:34 <Nat_aS> >Looking at list of newgrfs
17:30:55 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
17:31:10 <Alberth> ZxBiohazardZx: he's here!
17:31:28 <Alberth> Nat_aS: ^ is looking for you :)
17:31:28 <Nat_aS> >Replaces passenger production in oil rigs by eels which are accepted by fars in temperate climate and food processing plants in arctic and trpical climates, eels are transportable by hovercraft
17:32:43 <Alberth> (17:08:31) ZxBiohazardZx: Nat_aS sighted in teh meantime? <-- you missed this one 2.5 hours ago then :)
17:36:45 <Nat_aS> can you have more than one town name grf loaded at a time?
17:38:42 <Alberth> loaded should be possible, working is another matter :p
17:38:57 <Nat_aS> so no mixed town naming schemes?
17:39:18 <Alberth> not by loading town grfs, I think
17:39:32 <Alberth> but you can make a new town newgrf, they are very simple
17:40:01 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
17:40:07 <Nat_aS> just a list of text strings?
17:40:42 *** andythen_ has joined #openttd
17:40:51 <Alberth> that's the simplest form, you can compose a new from several parts
17:45:17 <Nat_aS> wish I could just click and drag to raise and lower terrain in the scenerio editor
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24187 /trunk/src/lang/ (russian.txt spanish.txt):
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 2 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 2 changes by Terkhen
17:45:41 <Nat_aS> the setup they have is great for editing terrain in game, but not making whole maps by hand
17:45:55 <andythen_> Farm production seems to need changes
17:46:49 <andythen_> One thing I could dono
17:47:26 <andythen_> now is give farms higher max production, whilst setting initial production low
17:47:45 <andythen_> This i can do now cb 15f is available
17:49:41 <andythen_> ^ worrying. possibly my laptop just got stolen :p
17:53:00 <andythen_> Maybe farms should use production cb for production, which enables more variety
17:55:38 <andythen_> Or delivering fmsp has a faster production ramp
18:01:04 <ZxBiohazardZx> want me to host the savegame in 15 mins?
18:01:34 <ZxBiohazardZx> finishing up on some stuff
18:01:40 <ZxBiohazardZx> but after that ill host it again to play a bit
18:04:51 <ZxBiohazardZx> nvm finished already :P
18:05:43 <ZxBiohazardZx> want me to increase our communistic income
18:05:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> aka free 20 mill yes/no
18:07:14 <ZxBiohazardZx> cuban government invested 40 million :) server is up
18:19:47 *** andythenorth_ has joined #openttd
18:39:20 *** kkb110_ has joined #openttd
18:46:49 <ZxBiohazardZx> its back again Nat_aS
18:47:14 <Nat_aS> maybe we should just start over tomorow?
18:48:10 <andythenorth> Rhamphoryncus any more play testing results on FIRS supplies patch?
18:48:32 <ZxBiohazardZx> better plan Nat_aS
18:56:43 <Rhamphoryncus> In terms of stability I haven't seen any issues and I've used it tons
18:57:10 <andythenorth> newgrf tends to work or not
18:57:14 <andythenorth> but is it good fun?
18:57:25 <Rhamphoryncus> For play style putting an engsup/farmsup train on the return path works for the most part
18:57:30 <andythenorth> does it add, detract or 'meh'
18:57:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Problem is there's still no way to moderate the transfer station
18:59:29 <Rhamphoryncus> You either have a few thousand built up or you have none
19:00:09 <Rhamphoryncus> It definitely adds over normal FIRS though
19:00:25 <andythenorth> did you try it with FMSP
19:00:50 <andythenorth> which might adjust FMSP effect
19:01:37 <Rhamphoryncus> I tried a biorefinery loop in one game and the volume was frustratingly low
19:03:03 <andythenorth> farms start with low production
19:03:07 <andythenorth> and grow slowly because of that
19:03:16 <andythenorth> the gearing is low
19:03:22 <Rhamphoryncus> yeah, very low and only ever hit medium
19:03:40 <andythenorth> I'll do the first part of 3950
19:03:53 <andythenorth> if that's not enough, I'll gear up the effect of FMSP too
19:04:11 <andythenorth> how high should farm production be able to go?
19:04:31 <andythenorth> if there's a cluster of 5 farms producing 1k tons grain each...that's a lot
19:04:44 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, but I think the cluster is the problem
19:06:24 <andythenorth> so coal mines top out around 900t
19:06:40 <andythenorth> most other primaries a little less
19:07:26 <andythenorth> farms @300t or 400t range?
19:07:44 <Rhamphoryncus> per output or total?
19:08:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Yeah, sounds like the right range then
19:08:39 <andythenorth> maybe I should be rebalancing some of the others
19:08:59 <andythenorth> I don't want insanely high production though, it adds little
19:09:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Stupid-high production was always one of the fun things to deal with
19:09:46 <Rhamphoryncus> IMO, firs has too many industries
19:10:16 <Rhamphoryncus> I did a game with 2 towns and another with 5 and I still never got them all done
19:12:20 <andythenorth> I've been playing TTD a long time, I get bored once all industries are connected
19:12:56 <andythenorth> you need 'economies'
19:13:17 <Nat_aS> FIRS should be scalable
19:13:24 <Nat_aS> in small maps it can be excessive
19:13:45 <andythenorth> define 'scalable' :P
19:14:17 <Rhamphoryncus> I should probably try more frequent service so I can do conditional order trickery to moderate production
19:15:46 <Rhamphoryncus> scalable = not subject to the size paradox? :D
19:15:54 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: any comment on farm production? I respect your opinions on these issues...
19:16:11 <Eddi|zuHause> what's wrong with it?
19:16:29 <Rhamphoryncus> hrm. Maybe I still have the wrong term >.>
19:16:48 <andythenorth> ^ I kind of agree with the premise
19:20:43 <andythenorth> although coal mine has max prod. of ~900t, not ~2300t, which adjusts the case a bit
19:20:57 <Eddi|zuHause> why is that, actually?
19:21:35 <andythenorth> why is it 900t? That could be changed
19:21:46 <andythenorth> I wanted initial production ~135t, and that sets the limit
19:21:49 <andythenorth> but not any more
19:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean how is that done technically?
19:22:26 <andythenorth> multiplied by prod_level, 8 or 9 times per month, with a /16 somewhere I think
19:22:32 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't tell me anything
19:23:12 <andythenorth> change the question? :)
19:24:33 <andythenorth> prod_level is capped at 128
19:25:02 <andythenorth> so limit of any industry is (was) derived from whatever initial production I set
19:25:12 <andythenorth> that cb 15F opens the possibility to change that
19:25:28 <andythenorth> as would using the production cb, but I don't want to write code that openttd already has
19:42:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling this can be simplified:
19:42:07 <Eddi|zuHause> ${AWK} --version > /dev/null 2> /dev/null
19:42:09 <Eddi|zuHause> if [ "$?" != "0" ]; then
19:43:35 <majbom> hi there - what is the lower limit of bandwith / ping to play mulitplayer over the internet?
19:43:56 *** FLHerne has joined #openttd
19:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't need much bandwidth at all
19:44:07 <andythenorth> fishing grounds randomising production on build is a big improvement
19:44:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the biggest usage is downloading the map on game start (might increase some timeouts for slow connections)
19:44:39 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise it's around 3kB/s per player
19:45:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you should better have a decent ping, though
19:45:38 <andythenorth> scatterbrained ping times will cause choppiness
19:46:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the game will throw you out if you don't answer in 10 seconds, but it gets virtually unplayable way before that
19:46:26 <andythenorth> so if I dump the initial prod_level from 16 to 12, I can use larger values for prop 12, 13
19:46:37 <andythenorth> which makes for higher max production, and a bigger spread of changes
19:46:57 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: why not start at a production level of 4, if you never decrease anyway?
19:47:12 <andythenorth> I've no wish to see insane production though
19:47:24 <andythenorth> decrease is available as an option btw
19:47:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the game cannot handle more than ~2k production
19:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> for primary industries
19:48:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: then start at 6 or so
19:48:32 <andythenorth> 8 would make the maths easier when adjusting current prop 12, 13 :P
19:51:09 <majbom> speedtest says down: 3,5mbps, up: 0,45mbps, ping 37ms
19:52:16 <majbom> i can't connect to my mates game, but I get an error; "Your computer is to slow to keep up with the host" (it's translated from danish, so i'm not sure it's 100percent the correct message, but i hope you'll get the point
19:52:22 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
19:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is probably your CPU, not your connection...
19:54:35 <majbom> well, it turned out it was some settings on my mates nic - it works now - thanks anyway :)
19:54:36 <Eddi|zuHause> there are too many things in the game, so your CPU cannot calculate them in time
19:54:56 *** kkb110_ has joined #openttd
20:21:52 <frosch123> poll: did you know that you can change numeric advanced settings by clicking on them, and entering a number in the popup?
20:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> but that should probably be made more obvious by a button
20:23:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought about that today, but couldn't bother making a mockup
20:23:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i also think one-of-many settings should have a list popping up
20:23:59 <Rubidium> frosch123: really? :)
20:24:37 <NGC3982> that "your computer can not keep up" is something i get regulary the first four or five times when creating a lan game and joining it.
20:24:54 <frosch123> NGC3982: how do you join the game?
20:24:55 <NGC3982> the computer itself does not have any trouble with the actuall gameplay or network traffic.
20:25:06 <frosch123> maybe by entering a password protected company?
20:25:23 <frosch123> try joining as spectator
20:25:28 <frosch123> and then only enter the company ingame
20:25:44 <NGC3982> i did that by accident, and the sign did not come up.
20:26:26 <NGC3982> the bug (if so) seems to timeout and show the message if im a bit too slow on the password.
20:26:43 <frosch123> NGC3982: there is a timeout for clients to download a map. but sadly that timeout already starts when you are asked for the password
20:26:59 <NGC3982> frosch123: ah, that explains it.
20:27:10 <frosch123> so, either you have to type the password really fast, or you have to join as specator (without password)
20:27:39 <NGC3982> is there any reason for it? or is it just ..like it is. :)
20:27:39 *** TWerkhoven2[l] has joined #openttd
20:44:33 *** rtyler_ has joined #openttd
20:44:57 <rtyler_> I'm running rc4, is there a way to fool the multiplayer set up to just pretend I'm 1.2 so I can connect to servers?
20:45:01 *** rtyler_ is now known as rtyler
20:45:13 <rtyler> some dope packaged up openttd 1.2.0rc4 for openSUSE
20:45:24 *** Chris_Booth has joined #openttd
20:46:12 <Alberth> not really, as 1.2 reacts differently from 1.2.0-RC4, so you'll get kicked off in no time
20:46:16 <TWerkhoven2[l]> you cant, and even if you could, its very possible you would disconnect with a desync very soon
20:46:34 <FLHerne> rtyler: That would be a bad idea :P
20:47:04 <Alberth> you can download a stable binary
20:47:16 <rtyler> RC must mean something different in openttd than elsewhere ;)
20:47:47 * rtyler pokes around for a 1.2 stable binary
20:48:11 <Alberth> 1.2.0 was a bit later than usual, so he decided he could not wait, apparently
20:49:09 <rtyler> looks like the openttd opensuse package is a bit out of date :/
20:49:54 <rtyler> now to find a good beginner server <_<
20:50:20 <rtyler> still have a lot of trouble setting up semaphores properly and things like that :/
20:52:04 <Alberth> I have never made that either :)
20:52:27 <FLHerne> Not so bad compared to the openttdcoop loonies :D
20:52:35 <Rubidium> rtyler: stable releases have more checks for versions due to some episodes of people trying to pass a version off for a stable release when it wasn't with all issues caused by that
20:53:21 <Rubidium> that terminus can be made even more efficient
20:53:22 <frosch123> FLHerne: 5 platforms for a single line either means really fast trains compared to the loading time, or that it is a really bad layout :p
20:53:35 <Rubidium> crossing traffic is bad
20:54:25 <rtyler> Alberth: thanks, I'll give it a read
20:54:52 <Alberth> I heard good things about it :)
21:03:35 <NGC3982> any tip on 1900-1950 bus/train grfs? (except NUTS)?
21:05:15 <FLHerne> UKRS2(+) is the answer to all train-grf related questions :P
21:07:21 <rtyler> do you chaps play at smaller resolutions to make it easier to mouse around this thing? :/
21:09:57 <FLHerne> rtyler: Smaller than what? 1080p works OK here...
21:10:10 <rtyler> well, my main monitor res is 1680x1050 <_<
21:10:21 <rtyler> or perhaps there are keyboard shortcuts I'm missing
21:10:40 <Zuu> rtyler: I always use windowed mode, so lowering the resolution don't make much sense.
21:10:55 <FLHerne> What are you actually finding awkward at your resolution?
21:11:24 <Zuu> Check your hotkeys.cfg for your current hotkeys. If you miss any, you can define or change them as you like.
21:11:51 <rtyler> well, the interface is so mouse-heavy, and the fact that window x's are only 15x15 (roundabouts) makes them rather small click targets
21:12:08 <rtyler> all buttons are maybe 15-20 pixels tall too :/
21:12:24 <Zuu> If you prefix a hotkey with Global, the window that the corresponding button sits at will be opened automatically to perform the hotkey. (will not work on vehicle windows where OpenTTD don't know which vehicle to pick)
21:12:50 <FLHerne> Oh, small pixels? There's a grf for that :P
21:15:04 <Zuu> rtyler: The interface allows more or less keyboard-less interaction (with the exception of Ctrl and Shift), but if you read up on hotkeys you can make several tasks less mouse-heavy.
21:16:04 <NGC3982> FLHerne: now that looks fantastic.
21:20:53 <Chris_Booth> FLHerne: what about if you have buttons that are to big?
21:22:14 <FLHerne> I've not seen a small-gui project :P . What has a low enough pixel density to need one?
21:22:49 <Chris_Booth> not sure someone on a really old 800x600 screen
21:24:49 <FLHerne> I have a really old 800x600 screen (on another computer), I don't find it a problem :D
21:25:09 <FLHerne> Laptop though, maybe an 800x600 desktop screen would be worse
21:32:42 <Eddi|zuHause> the game originally was designed for 640x480
21:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> which is the width of the main toolbar
21:33:18 <Eddi|zuHause> you can meanwhile make it smaller
21:33:26 <Eddi|zuHause> it will overlap the buttons
21:33:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and eventually switch between two sets of buttons
21:34:15 <Eddi|zuHause> some mobile devices may benefit from a low resolution
21:39:32 * FLHerne wonders if the very-aged-looking GUI could be made 'shinier'
21:39:43 <FLHerne> Optionally, of course :P
21:40:13 <Eddi|zuHause> via grf: the buttons, yes. colours and shapes, no. interaction, no.
21:41:58 *** maoranma has joined #openttd
21:43:06 <FLHerne> It seems (looking at the Android/DS etc ports) that the current GUI doesn't deal with non-PC-style devices well. :-(
21:43:16 <maoranma> Yay, I've successully repaid the bank loans! I'm finally learning how to play~
21:43:40 <FLHerne> Maybe that's something for the devs to work on :P
21:44:11 <Eddi|zuHause> pfft... repay bank loan... the innocence :)
21:45:16 <maoranma> I'm still just learning >_>
21:48:58 <FLHerne> The annoying thing is when you have more money than you can rationally spend :D
21:54:25 <NGC3982> maoranma: good on you!
21:55:36 *** ToxicFrog has joined #openttd
22:08:05 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: "if ${AWK} --version &> /dev/null; then ... "
22:30:14 *** TWerkhoven2[l] has quit IRC
22:40:02 <rtyler> heh, after subsidizing it, the town I was delivering goods to, no longer accepts goods
22:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that happens quite often for small towns
22:47:50 <rtyler> I'm practicing on a 64x64 map
22:48:07 <rtyler> after these subsidies, passengers at bus stations plummeted, as did oil production and some other stuff
22:48:18 <rtyler> must be that last 70's gas crisis that Carter caused ;)
22:54:05 <rtyler> my small towns seem to be dying :(
22:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> you're already lucky that you have more than one town :)
23:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the maximum is 4
23:09:11 <rtyler> what would be a good size to learn creating hubs to practice signaling with?
23:10:39 <Rhamphoryncus> I would probably start with stations, not hubs
23:11:38 <rtyler> right, they'd be stations, I meant conceptually
23:11:45 <rtyler> like bringing coal from N stations together
23:14:16 <Rhamphoryncus> By the time a mine is scaled up fully it doesn't take too many to saturate a single line
23:14:40 <Rhamphoryncus> Depending on how quickly your trains accelerate, how long they are, etc
23:16:00 <Rhamphoryncus> So.. hrm, maybe a longer but still narrow map, going one end to the other with multiple industry types
23:25:15 <rtyler> is there a means of having N number of vehicles share the same orders?
23:25:23 <rtyler> I'd like to just use a bus fleet, and control them all the same
continue to next day ⏵
