IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-04-08
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00:00:16 <xiong> I've always quit by that point. I start in 1850 and only one of my games lasted to 1900... maybe two.
00:00:42 <xiong> By that time, I've discovered some technical aspect of my layout unsatisfactory and I start over.
00:01:51 <xiong> I now have what I think of as a solid junction and what seems to be very plausible stations for pax and freight both. I keep thinking that this game will be one worth taking all the way... to 2050, I guess is the end?
00:03:08 <Rhamphoryncus> Original game was 1950..2050 (or am I little off?) Openttd removed the limits. Starting in 1100 if you want. Just have to make yourself vehicles :P
00:03:12 <Rhamphoryncus> And beware inflation, heh
00:03:22 <xiong> I've evolved my strategy, no doubt about it. I now build four big stations on a 256-by map, and run feeders to them. Pax and frieght are totally isolated -- separate trains, separate tracks.
00:05:07 <xiong> I don't know any vehicle sets that go back to 1100. Sailing Ships goes back to 1700. I've been tempted to try a start then.
00:05:25 <drac_boy> one thing I've liked is to do with japset ... different class of locomotives/wagons for same cargos .. and on top of actually having runcost for wagons too
00:05:38 <drac_boy> hoping to do the same thing here too but we'll have to see
00:07:26 <xiong> While you're at it... freight yards, classification yards where trains can be made up. And fix cargodist, too. Bills of lading are basic to transportation. I've never in my life walked into a bus station, Amshack, or airport and asked for the first ticket out to anywhere.
00:07:48 <drac_boy> umm just what are you talking about? :p
00:08:40 <Rhamphoryncus> He's trying to simulate real life
00:09:04 <drac_boy> dunno what that has to do with the rail depot to start with ;)
00:09:04 <Rhamphoryncus> is this just real life? Is this just fantasy?
00:09:41 <drac_boy> hmm...I need to find the word for 'boxcab' now...
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00:17:08 <xiong> Now I'm stuck with Queen in my head... I blame Rhamphoryncus.
00:17:21 <Rhamphoryncus> Stuck in a landslide..
00:18:48 <Rhamphoryncus> "Or give up your reliance on dangerous old grilling technology and go with a propane gas grill. After all, what's safer than a grill with a large tank of highly flammable gas that a 3-year-old can turn on?" XD
00:25:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Or that a 40-year-old refuses to turn off because it's not dangerous enough...
00:28:01 <xiong> Propane is God. All you taste is the meat. Hank Hill says so; and if you can't trust Hank Hill, who?
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00:34:59 <drac_boy> hmm to have different sprites for MU units or not
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00:52:25 * drac_boy kind of misses jamie tho
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01:33:37 <xiong> "Hank believes that selling propane through honesty and hard work is what life is all about."
01:45:27 <drac_boy> xiong do you like to use propane? :)
01:46:31 <drac_boy> that wasn't the question
01:59:58 <Fori> I could use some help with ECS parameters. If someone's willing to help, just send me a whisper :)
02:00:06 <drac_boy> hi fori...and which ecs?
02:00:21 <Fori> Uhm. We activated all of em :)
02:00:41 <Fori> The wiki only said "quite complicated" not "impossible" ^^
02:00:52 <drac_boy> in that case, there's usually a parameter for each single one of them..and its in the readme file..or if you didn't download it then check the wiki for a copy
02:01:17 <Fori> It's mainly that I selected "Infinite ore" and that's simly not working because all the industry have some "... remaining".
02:03:29 <xiong> drac_boy, I will do almost anything to avoid a barbecue regardless of fuel.
02:04:40 <xiong> The last barbecue I attended was... about 4 years ago, I think. I spent the entire time wishing desperately for something to do. The only productive activity was grilling the food, which was taken. I leapt at the chance to drive to the store for more aluminum foil and made the errand last as long as I could.
02:04:47 <drac_boy> xiong heh, so never use propane then?
02:05:33 <xiong> Now that I think about it... although not for some time.
02:06:36 <xiong> I have the bad habit of speaking my mind... which has occasioned poverty. Therefore, I've spent a lot of time living in what I call hot-plate rooms, because hot plates are always forbidden... and everyone has a hot plate. Or, at least they did before microwaves became cheap.
02:06:43 <Fori> Drac? You got any idea why my selected parametrs don't work?
02:07:25 <xiong> Well, I detest cooking on electric... which reminds me of a serious shortcoming in this apartment... and in any case, hot plates are forbidden. So I have, and have used, a small propane stove for the same purpose.
02:08:32 <drac_boy> fori no idea sorry, not interested in downloading it to look at readme atm
02:09:01 <xiong> It has never occurred to me, of my own volition, to expose meat to an open flame. I thought we moved beyond that technology... some time ago.
02:09:45 <xiong> Some time after the invention of pottery, or at least iron working.
02:17:12 <drac_boy> xiong btw I don't even have a microwave..it wouldn't had worked at all anyway
02:23:47 <Rhamphoryncus> Fori: Try applying infinite ore to each of the newgrfs, not just the main (town) one
02:25:58 <drac_boy> ok 2 old reference sheets deleted, a few more locomotives to look at drawing the sprites for, and some further idea notes. think I'm taking a break from this as usual and go to bed
02:29:27 <Fori> Thanks for that tip. Did that already...
02:29:55 <Rhamphoryncus> The is the amount remaining in a mine? Not amount waiting to be processed in a secondary industry?
02:30:20 <Fori> Yeah. I also wanted to set up the maximum stockpile off... But still it says (Max. xxx)
02:30:27 <Fori> Dunno what's happening there :(
02:30:54 <Rhamphoryncus> It'll keep accepting past the limit
02:31:20 <Fori> Will it? So there's still a limit shown?
02:31:26 <Fori> Even if the parameter is working?
02:31:29 <Rhamphoryncus> Many industries won't scale up any further though
02:31:39 <Rhamphoryncus> Yes. Max xxx will switch from green to red when at the limit
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02:32:02 <Fori> But still accept the cargo?
02:32:29 <Fori> And for the producing industries... Will they actually use nothing? Or just refill from time to time?
02:32:31 <Rhamphoryncus> accept, just not produce any extra
02:32:41 <Rhamphoryncus> I believe the limit doesn't go down
02:33:00 <Rhamphoryncus> They just sit permanently at xxxx left
02:33:23 <Fori> When's an industries "Level up" calculated?
02:33:39 <Rhamphoryncus> It's complicated
02:34:15 <Fori> When some industry needs three goods. Will it only start producing when it gets all three?
02:35:18 <Rhamphoryncus> For stock industries it depends on station rating (or rather % transported). 60%+ is the "good" threshold, 80% is the "excellent" threshold
02:35:31 <Rhamphoryncus> in ECS? Some do, some don't
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06:20:48 <Arafangion> andythenorth: Omnipresent, are you?
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06:51:51 <andythenorth> CHIPS for breakfast :)
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06:55:22 <Arafangion> andythenorth: Just for today, or always? :)
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07:06:07 <andythenorth> so showing cargo waiting for Grain is tricky
07:06:25 <andythenorth> grain is not left lying around uncovered generally
07:09:00 <Arafangion> andythenorth: For cotton in Australia, they have massive piles of it they just dump on a sheet on the ground, then cover that with a plastic sheet.
07:09:48 <Arafangion> andythenorth: Could show grain by having sealed silos... With empty silos "open for repair/cleaning"?
07:10:16 <andythenorth> or there are grain store buildings with open doors
07:10:49 <Arafangion> Doubt it... They're usually in silos.
07:11:01 <Arafangion> Filled from the top.
07:11:34 <Arafangion> thing is you want to keep the silo *dry*, easy to fill, and easy to drain of grain - and also safe, you don't want anyone to fall in.
07:11:49 <Arafangion> Because then they will choke! :)
07:13:29 <Arafangion> Weird, I've never seen that.
07:13:36 <Arafangion> That would be difficult to unload.
07:13:37 <andythenorth> pretty common in UK
07:13:46 <andythenorth> use a front loader to unload
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08:55:57 <andythenorth> compiling FIRS with grfcodec is insanely faster than nmlc :)
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09:25:41 * Alberth takes his riffle, throws table over for extra cover, and watches for any movement, ready to kill the bad guys
09:30:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rhamphoryncus: you do know there already exists a NAND signal patch?
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10:00:12 <Alberth> andythenorth: I was wondering whether you can use your parallellization trick in BANDITS, in nml
10:00:27 <andythenorth> but I know nothing about the internals
10:00:39 <andythenorth> nor what is slow
10:01:45 <andythenorth> presumably processes could be spawned to encode pngs, or parse blocks of switches or whatever
10:02:28 * andythenorth wonders if nmlc can be persuaded to produce blocks of raw nfo, without header stuff
10:02:29 <Alberth> yep, although to some extent it is just hiding the problem
10:02:47 <Eddi|zuHause> move nml to c++ :)
10:02:48 <andythenorth> I'm already encoding BANDIT with grfcodec because it's ~twice as fast
10:03:06 <andythenorth> I'll probably have to figure out how to switch FIRS to grfcodec
10:03:26 <andythenorth> I realised earlier - one of the things that puts me off FIRS dev is a very long compile time
10:03:28 <Eddi|zuHause> in CETS, nml is spending now half the time in ply
10:03:41 <Eddi|zuHause> after i removed the whole template calculation
10:04:04 <Eddi|zuHause> so expression evaluation is _really_ slow
10:04:27 * andythenorth is wondering whether to mix in nfo
10:04:39 <Alberth> likely they do something wrong, how difficult can evaluation be?
10:04:43 <andythenorth> will nmlc ignore raw nfo that it encounters?
10:04:58 <andythenorth> FIRS is a 30-40s compile time
10:05:07 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: it will likely error out...
10:05:46 <andythenorth> slow compile times make it less appealing to hack
10:05:53 <andythenorth> and hacking is the only way I learn the code
10:05:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but maybe you can make a special comment or #pragma
10:06:03 <xahodo> um... where do vehicles select their next order?
10:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> xahodo: in LeaveStation()?
10:06:32 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I was thinking more in the CETS case ;)
10:07:05 <andythenorth> nfo seems to parse varaction 2 chains pretty near-enough instantly
10:07:20 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: add a 'literal' block ? not sure how it affects the code generation, as it has to account for the nfo
10:07:21 <Eddi|zuHause> xahodo: just a wild guess
10:08:14 <Alberth> allowing modular compile has likely a much better impact
10:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the problem with "inline asm" is generally referencing outside values, like parameter and action2 ids
10:09:19 <Alberth> but that's why you have linking
10:09:26 <andythenorth> hmm, so nmlc has to resolve all those identifiers and such?
10:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and nml's accounting of used IDs is also affected
10:09:36 * andythenorth is a complete compiling newbie
10:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, each identifier gets an ID number that must be unique between the definition and the last use of the identifier
10:10:56 <andythenorth> is that a linear problem or some O?
10:11:30 * Alberth choses O, since O(1) contains the former option :p
10:12:43 <xahodo> Well, it appears it doesn't over there... it only changes the vehicle's state to leaving station.
10:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you need to traverse the tree multiple times, otherwise you cannot free an ID because you don't know whether it's going to be used again
10:14:38 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: all the list and uniqueness handling in each node makes it probably slightly more than linear, but less than quadratic
10:15:27 <Alberth> one backward sweep and one forward sweep should cover most of the problem
10:15:51 <k-man> whats the keyboard shortcut to pause?
10:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> k-man: pause or F1
10:17:15 <Alberth> xahodo: find the name of the structure containing a single order, and look for uses in the vehicle code
10:18:04 <Alberth> or look in vehicle functions for 'order' code
10:18:24 <Rubidium> or just at everything that calls ProcessOrders
10:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: there are generally two kinds of algorithm involved with compiling. the first kind is "easy" problems of O(nlogn) or O(n^p) for a small p, or "difficult" problems which are EXPSPACE and beyond, but "those cases never appear in real applications"
10:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter kind is fairly common in compiler-generators
10:22:11 <Eddi|zuHause> (e.g. taking a grammar and making an efficient parser out of it)
10:29:08 <xahodo> I just found where the next order is selected... at least, for trains, that is.
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10:29:37 <xahodo> SwitchToNextOrder in train_cmd.cpp
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10:33:11 <frosch123> hmm happy cet morning?
10:33:48 <frosch123> how does the uk call their summertime?
10:34:12 <drac_boy> no idea, I'm far away from uk :)
10:35:32 <drac_boy> heh not at first? :)
10:36:01 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: how do we know you're even human?
10:36:18 <frosch123> when did i claim to be human?
10:36:40 <frosch123> i am a frog, you know that
10:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: but a frog that can count
10:37:30 <peter1138> bst -- british summer time
10:37:56 <Eddi|zuHause> unlike a certain peter, whose fibonacci sequence misses a few numbers
10:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause> 1 1 (2) 3 (5) 8 ...
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10:39:32 <peter0112358132134558914423337> thm
10:39:39 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: obviously the next number in peter's sequence is 29
10:39:40 <peter0112358132134558914423337> cropped :(
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10:40:16 <peter1138> or 47 56 65 74 83 92
10:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> those are not on the lottery ticket :p
10:41:00 <drac_boy> hm...tried draw a house again only to remember that I stopped because I didn't have any ground tile sprites to match to :-|
10:41:11 * drac_boy thinks what to draw now
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10:42:14 <andythenorth> drac_boy: ground tiles are available
10:44:43 <drac_boy> andythenorth whats tarps? and I dunno what the ground tiles are when grfcodec still has the same sprite 0 error
10:45:27 <andythenorth> tarps! is just andythenorth being silly
10:45:49 <drac_boy> heh well you could have considered saying 'tents' instead which would be the same thing...a tarp on the ground :P
10:49:17 <andythenorth> do you expect it to be working, or are you still writing code?
10:50:15 <xahodo> Why are orders handled all over the place?
10:51:23 <drac_boy> andythenorth well I dunno why the ttd grf is the only things that doesn't work so far. and as for writing code I haven't really done much on that side yet - was planning to leave a fair chunk of that to someone else
10:54:19 <Rhamphoryncus> Pfft, tents aren't tarps. In a pinch perhaps you could make a tent from a tarp, but they're not the same thing
10:55:28 <drac_boy> yeah I know, I was being silly with andythenorth's answer ;)
11:06:11 <drac_boy> any station tiles larger than 1x1 has to be laid manually all the times, there's no way to use the 'drag and place' with such tiles, right?
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11:09:30 <Achilleshiel> does anyone know how it is standing with ECS 1.2?
11:10:18 <drac_boy> what do you mean by standing btw?
11:13:50 <Alberth> Achilleshiel: only the author knows
11:16:32 <oskari89> Is FIRS 0.7.0 released?
11:19:14 <Alberth> bananas has 0.7.1 already
11:19:57 <Alberth> but the better place for this is either in the release thread of the grf, or in its project at the devzone
11:20:14 <oskari89> It hasn't yet been compiled with Finnish translation?
11:20:55 <Alberth> released versions are normally not changed after releae
11:22:18 <andythenorth> last compile was yesterday
11:22:51 <andythenorth> finnish and french translations should be there
11:24:56 <Alberth> just a few missing due to new changes
11:25:38 <drac_boy> andythenorth btw I finally had a look at the whole forum thread.. CHIPS sure looks nic
11:25:52 <andythenorth> it's close to 1.0 I think
11:25:58 <drac_boy> a few of these building gave me a bit of ieas for a bit of mine
11:26:06 <andythenorth> if I do much more it gets complicated, and CHIPS is meant to be simple
11:26:09 <drac_boy> I still keep thinking the pigs are too clean heh heh
11:32:34 <drac_boy> and yeah you're right..I do sometimes find some of the passenger station grfs a bit too 'big'
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11:32:55 <drac_boy> remind me again why I've kinda been stuck to newstat+japstat .. still a decent choice without a big buy menu
12:12:49 <Jupix> anyone else able to quickly grab a screenshot of the 1.2 title game without the hud?
12:14:18 * Alberth guesses the intro menu
12:14:30 <Jupix> yeah nice brainfart, go me
12:14:39 <Eddi|zuHause> you do know that you can just rename opntitle.dat
12:14:45 <Eddi|zuHause> into opntitle.dat
12:14:55 <Jupix> yup. but that would mean I'd have to DL and install the game client first :P
12:14:58 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can just load it
12:16:26 <Achilleshiel> Alberth: btw, i fixed the Detailed Performance page;)
12:19:50 <Alberth> Achilleshiel: ok, thanks
12:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: why is that 1.5MB?
12:28:36 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I wished I knew
12:28:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: you enabled 32bpp or something?
12:28:54 <Alberth> I suspect it is a property of the nouveau driver
12:32:17 <drac_boy> hmm I wonder if there was a good TSR screenshot app for dos
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12:32:33 <drac_boy> or was that TRS...can't remember heh
12:34:36 <drac_boy> either way might be a bit better for grf screenshot than .pict
12:39:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i once used a screenshot app bundled with WordPerfect
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12:39:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but of course it was kinda futile trying to screenshot 256 colour games, when outside the game only 16 would be displayable
12:45:12 <drac_boy> heh eddi sounds like a poor limit in wordperfect's bundle :)
12:45:54 <drac_boy> as it is right now I have to take a screenshot of patch from the desktop .... then crop out the excessive ... but its still a .pict file tho
12:46:04 <drac_boy> so was just wondering, I'll figure out something soon either way tho
12:48:00 <drac_boy> eddi how much colour do you have for your desktop?
12:48:21 <drac_boy> usually its a million of colours (or 24-bit if you want it measured that way instead) for me :)
12:48:48 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: back then 256 colour modes were unavailable outside some convoluted game graphics drivers, which each game implemented differently
12:49:06 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: so even being able to grab the screen in such modes was a wonder
12:49:54 <drac_boy> ah I see, well I don't know much about dos from these years. I wasn't using pcs for quite a few years
12:50:01 <drac_boy> andythenorth whats working?? :p
12:50:16 <andythenorth> rendering truck bodies
12:50:26 <andythenorth> it was already working, but now it's working differently
12:50:35 <andythenorth> I thought changing it would be more painful than it was
12:50:42 <drac_boy> heh so you mean "working but in a different way"? :)
12:50:45 <andythenorth> turns out my code is now pretty modular
12:55:40 <drac_boy> so what kind of trucks you drawing?
12:58:23 <andythenorth> I'm teaching code to draw them for me
12:58:30 <andythenorth> how do I clear pylons?
12:58:33 <andythenorth> prop 11 is failing
12:58:42 <drac_boy> heh ok, have fun with him then? :)
12:58:56 * drac_boy is chasing down technical details online again :-s
13:08:41 <Wolf01> yes, and I really ate too much
13:11:52 <drac_boy> what time is it there now?
13:13:11 <drac_boy> well you always could exercise a bit in the afternoon and/or just have a small late supper
13:13:55 <Wolf01> I will have a small supper for sure
13:14:51 <drac_boy> so beside food what else's going on? :)
13:15:12 <Wolf01> minecraft, all the afternoon
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13:16:42 <drac_boy> have fun with that :p
13:18:49 <andythenorth> fricking minecrack
13:18:55 <andythenorth> that gets nothing done :P
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13:21:40 <andythenorth> stations to match the original TTD concrete texture (the hatched / gridded sprite used in cities etc)
13:22:08 <drac_boy> lakie's glass station? not sure
13:22:45 <andythenorth> I'm thinking of drawing one
13:22:54 <andythenorth> won't match opengfx
13:24:06 <andythenorth> every time I switch to opengfx (for testing) I start itching to redraw :P
13:28:57 <drac_boy> heh I don't have to bother supporting opengfx thankfully. sorry about you tho ;)
13:31:09 <drac_boy> pikka btw I was wondering about it for a while but only now remember about wanting to ask in here. whats the weather in australia like?
13:31:31 <drac_boy> here its just been crazy.. warm and sunny one day then bit cold raining at night .. and next day is as out of whack too
13:33:36 <Rubidium> drac_boy: apparantly between -1°C and 30°C
13:34:09 <drac_boy> hmm so I guess the two countries are similar
13:34:21 <Pikka> Australia is approximately the size of the continental USA or Europe.
13:34:32 <Pikka> the weather in "australia" varies quite a bit.
13:34:39 <Pikka> depending on where you are
13:36:07 <Rubidium> USA seems to be -4 to 23 at the moment
13:36:14 <Pikka> also I'm not sure I'd categorise "warm and sunny one day then bit cold raining at night" as "crazy"...
13:36:48 <andythenorth> wonder if my station set matches your tracks
13:37:00 <Pikka> I was about to download it this very
13:37:55 <Pikka> Rubidium: where is it -1?
13:38:06 <Pikka> macquarie island doesn't count as australia :P
13:38:22 <Pikka> well, on top of a mountain is cheating too
13:39:05 <Rubidium> I've got no clue what's exactly where
13:39:15 <Pikka> the colder bits are south
13:39:24 <Pikka> tasmania is a big island south of the mainland
13:39:29 <Rubidium> but weatherzone does show the current extremes
13:39:33 <andythenorth> how very finescale your tracks are :o
13:39:35 <Pikka> macquarie island is a tiny island a long, long way south of tasmania
13:40:44 <andythenorth> these are more in scale to the trains
13:41:11 <andythenorth> makes the trams look pretty stupid though
13:41:21 <andythenorth> finescale tram tracks?
13:41:35 <andythenorth> for HEQS, the 'trams' are 2' and 3' narrow gauge mostly
13:41:37 <drac_boy> I know this may be a touchy question but what kind of hp did most of these older large traction motors for electric locomotives have? (you know the kind where eg you have a boxcab with driveaxle-driveaxle-motor-driveaxle siderods)
13:41:51 <Pikka> why may this be a touchy question?
13:41:59 <drac_boy> I dunno, just seem that way to me sorry :)
13:42:57 <drac_boy> andythenorth so I guess that putting it down as 700hp for single and 1400hp for crocodile-alike locomotives on metre gauge wouldn't seem too far off then?
13:43:05 <Pikka> GG1 traction motors are supposedly 385hp each
13:43:27 <Pikka> and it had 12 of them, two per axle.
13:43:39 <Rubidium> though I conveniently leave the radix open ;)
13:43:40 <drac_boy> yeah, three transformers too :p
13:44:31 <drac_boy> andythenorth ah I had forgotten that they had a swiss crocodile too. thanks. that answers my question already :)
13:44:49 * drac_boy revises my table numbers
13:45:01 <andythenorth> Pikka: the \ on a downslope has an oversized PBS reservation
13:45:41 <Pikka> all the slopes do, I'm told
13:45:59 <Pikka> It may be me or it may just be railtypes
13:46:05 <andythenorth> also...why don't newgrf stations support railtypes in the buy menu?
13:46:21 <Pikka> just turn off "show reservations" ;)
13:47:22 <Pikka> hmm, I guess they don't :)
13:47:51 <andythenorth> that reservations thing is probably fixable
13:48:33 <andythenorth> probably just the wrong sprite being drawn
13:48:33 <andythenorth> I learnt how railtype drawing works once, a long time ago :P
13:48:48 * drac_boy is thankful for whoever posted that sticky-stickie formula on how to figure out hp/kn for steam locomotives
13:49:05 <Pikka> I may have accidentally added the ballast to sprites which shouldn't have had it
13:50:31 * peter1138 ballasts pikka into outer space
13:51:11 <Pikka> I used the bridge sprites for the overlay
13:51:24 <Pikka> oh well, I'll fix it later (tm).
13:54:17 <drac_boy> if theres only one thing I hate about the formula.. its when I don't have any clue what the cylinder strokes are supposed to be
13:54:33 <drac_boy> ah well always can fudge things a bit and retest locomotives balancing ingame
13:55:52 * drac_boy gives peter1138 some coarse stones to use as the base of the ballast?
14:11:42 <drac_boy> hmm looks like I'm missing one diesel to suggest in the revised table....guess I'll look for something later
14:16:47 <bolli> qucik question, can i access somebodies company to remove cheating (as dedicated server) or do i just have to delete the company?
14:24:27 <Alberth> change to the company
14:25:14 <planetmaker> as admin you can move people via rcon move <clientID> <companyID>
14:25:26 <planetmaker> without passwords of the company required
14:27:49 <andythenorth> if my python import lines go well beyond 80 char, should I break them?
14:27:57 <andythenorth> even though they import from same module?
14:28:01 <planetmaker> for readability: yes
14:28:02 <andythenorth> can't bloody read them :p
14:29:08 *** fonsinchen has joined #openttd
14:29:19 * drac_boy wonders why andythenorth is causing so much stir :P
14:29:33 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r24100 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: also provide translated comments in the desktop file without language name postfix
14:29:49 <Alberth> andy always speaks a lot
14:30:31 <drac_boy> Alberth yeah seem like it
14:30:38 <planetmaker> drac_boy: he talks a lot but also produces a lot. That both usually draws attention. Combined even more
14:30:50 <drac_boy> heh you do have a point
14:31:04 * drac_boy would have to see what others will think of my pre-release screenshot later on tho
14:32:33 <andythenorth> some people talk little and produce a lot
14:32:33 * andythenorth uses irc like pair coding :P
14:35:26 <drac_boy> hmm what would you had called a particular locomotive that had forward seatings with panorma-like viewing while the engineer/driver sat to the side (or in some cases like JR they sit on a roof dome)
14:36:12 <drac_boy> I'm not sure "observation loco" really works heh
14:39:44 <drac_boy> thanks for trying still bolli :)
14:39:49 <bolli> another question... is it possible to disable a newGRF mid game any more?
14:39:57 <drac_boy> I'll just leave the loco name to be filled in later
14:40:12 <bolli> somebody has reported an issue with one that i want to disable, without resetting the game
14:42:16 <planetmaker> newgrf config is fixed at game start
14:44:33 <drac_boy> btw I was just thinking about that dicussion yesterday and wanted to ask another thing...
14:44:34 <planetmaker> disabling newgrfs mid-game most likely will lead to a broken savegame of sorts, like invalid vehicles, industries, houses, cargos or similar
14:45:06 <drac_boy> I know that right now you can flip single locomotive and last wagon around to simulate push-pull trains but the question i got is...
14:45:21 <drac_boy> could it also work on trains with seperate loco at both ends or not so much?
14:45:25 <planetmaker> you can only do that, if the engine allows it
14:45:32 *** Djohaal has joined #openttd
14:45:54 <planetmaker> for double-headed it's done automatically, though
14:46:08 <planetmaker> for others the engine must allow flipping explicitly.
14:46:11 <drac_boy> planetmaker not so automatically if its two different types
14:46:15 <planetmaker> Defaults do. Most newgrfs don't (yet)
14:46:27 <planetmaker> yes, not automatically
14:46:52 <drac_boy> the question tho was..could it be done or not plausible?
14:47:16 <planetmaker> imho should not be done automatically. And can only be done, if the newgrf allows
14:47:46 <drac_boy> so I guess it can be done then, is that what you're saying? :)
14:48:16 <planetmaker> ctrl+click will flip it. If the engine allows flipping
14:49:15 <planetmaker> probably a hidden feature :-)
14:49:28 <planetmaker> and as said: most newgrfs don't support it yet
14:50:02 <drac_boy> planetmaker maybe I should be a bit more clear...its for eg this kind of consist where powerloco-coach-coach-powercabend ... could it keep running cab-forward only if asked to?
14:50:13 * planetmaker wonders whether Pikka set the flag in NARS2 and UKRS2 where appropriate :-)
14:51:01 <planetmaker> depends on how it's coded
14:51:23 <planetmaker> default double-headed trains are fixed in this respect
14:51:40 <planetmaker> default single-headed trains can be turned whereever you like
14:51:48 <planetmaker> maybe not the first. Dunno
14:51:52 <Pikka> I did for UKRS2, planetmaker
14:52:01 <Pikka> it didn't exist before NARS2
14:52:14 <Pikka> also, "where appropriate" is "nowhere" ;)
14:52:14 <drac_boy> btw I do think its working in NARS although you need to be a bit careful with the wagons. nothing weirder than having eg F40PH-mail-bilevel-bilevel-bilevel then when it turns around you find it running as bilevel-mail-bilevel-bilevel-F40PH which looks weird
14:52:19 <planetmaker> I didn't know whether you released a new NARS since
14:52:29 <drac_boy> I guess its just a 'technical' limitation in the game..nothing the grf can do about it :/
14:52:51 <planetmaker> I think you're wrong there, drac_boy
14:53:28 <planetmaker> but true shunting-behaviour. That's not nicely feasible. And a technical limitation
14:54:11 <drac_boy> yeah I have to agree with you
14:55:38 <planetmaker> but only technical as in: OpenTTD would need to support it itself in its core game code.
14:55:45 <planetmaker> That's moderately easily feasible
14:55:49 <drac_boy> if theres one other thing I liked (I can't remember if it was pikka or someone else that started this?) its animated locomotive sprites especially for steam locomotive siderods moving up and down a bit
14:56:09 <planetmaker> yeah. That was Pikka :-)
14:56:15 <planetmaker> iirc. ukrs or nars
14:56:39 <Pikka> nars2 has animated steam engines, but other people did it first
14:56:43 <drac_boy> not sure how hard that must had been to code but I kinda want to have the same. we'll just have to see :p
15:01:41 <drac_boy> whoever did animated station tiles anyway? heh :-)
15:03:46 <drac_boy> heh guess it was a team effort then?
15:04:55 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:06:06 <drac_boy> wb andythenorth anything else to "break" now? :)
15:07:28 <andythenorth> is there a cleaner way to do this? I keep doing it, and it smells bad:
15:07:32 <andythenorth> self.body_path = os.path.join(INTERMEDIATES_PATH, 'body_' + filename.split('body_')[1])
15:07:37 <andythenorth> specifically the reconcatenation of the split item
15:10:04 <andythenorth> I know I could arse about with splitting at the index of the substring or such
15:10:09 <andythenorth> but that's boring and more loc
15:10:38 <andythenorth> I could use str.partition, but I still have to rejoin :P
15:10:56 * drac_boy leaves you with someone else as that line made absolutely zero sense to me :-s
15:12:31 <drac_boy> hm anyone think that if you built two identical locomotives but one with diesel-hydraulic and one with diesel-electric .. would the former have had any different tractive figures?
15:12:42 * drac_boy does not know that much about hydraulic transmissions tbh
15:13:24 <andythenorth> the basics are that TE comes from weight
15:13:36 <andythenorth> diesel hydraulic are often lighter (one reason why they're used)
15:13:48 <andythenorth> no generator etc needed
15:14:23 <andythenorth> other factors don't affect theoretical max TE, but would affect real-world performance, e.g.
15:14:59 <andythenorth> - acceleration. Electric motors deliver high torque at start, hydraulic not (I think)
15:15:48 <andythenorth> - max continuous power may be limited by mechanical factors (overheating etc)
15:16:17 <andythenorth> - max torque may be limited similarly by mechanical factors, e.g. an electric motor drawing too many amps may flashover and fail
15:16:38 <andythenorth> I wouldn't worry about it tbh, unless you have gameplay reasons to
15:18:37 <drac_boy> heh well thats more than what I was able to think of, you're right about the absence of generators
15:18:42 <Eddi|zuHause> germany focused on diesel-hydraulic because diesel-electric was forbidden after the war
15:19:36 <andythenorth> I thought it was axle-loading restrictions?
15:19:45 * andythenorth was reading something about it recently
15:20:29 <drac_boy> andythenorth I only recall one case where a locomotive was built as diesel-electric instead of the normal diesel-hydraulic (north africa or south europe I forgot) due to the tight curvations which would had been hard on the chassis-to-truck mechanisms I imagine
15:20:39 <drac_boy> it was narrow gauge btw
15:22:09 <Eddi|zuHause> africa has mostly 1067mm narrow gauge (germans call it "Kapspur")
15:22:43 <drac_boy> eddi btw I read about it once but I guess I'm still a little naive on how you can have a low and high speed turbine in a diesel-hydraulic. all I can recall is that it used high pressue pumps that made the switchover effortless under speed
15:23:08 <drac_boy> yeah africa was Cape Gauge, or was that australia? I'll have to check
15:23:29 <andythenorth> if we had traffic lights and roadtypes
15:23:39 <andythenorth> narrow-gauge-as-trams would be a bit more interesting
15:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> very possible that it was also used in australia
15:23:54 <drac_boy> ah its a generic term, can be anyone uses it
15:24:15 <drac_boy> wonder if theres a term for 2ft gauge too
15:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> how much is 2ft?
15:25:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i only know 760mm is "bosnian gauge"
15:25:16 <drac_boy> andythenorth heh I almost forgot that I guess theres always two ways to measure it... in ft/inch or in millimeters
15:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> a few narrow gauge railways in austria use it
15:25:42 <drac_boy> andythenorth the only exception I know of is when it come to metre gauge .. was just a shade over 3ft3inch wasn't it?
15:26:03 <Eddi|zuHause> in germany, 750mm and 1000mm are common
15:26:12 <drac_boy> eddi 2ft (or 600mm if you prefer) was often for short cheap industrial railroads
15:26:23 <drac_boy> but of course that was before the thing called "road trucks" were common :p
15:26:30 <andythenorth> hence HEQS trams
15:26:47 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: maybe "Feldbahn" is the term you seek :)
15:27:08 <andythenorth> much of the HEQS stuff is based on Feldbahn
15:27:10 <drac_boy> mind you andythenorth there are a few places that still run modern 2ft rails for some reason or others :)
15:28:24 <drac_boy> eddi how about going into the other direction... broad gauge? :)
15:28:51 <drac_boy> afaik spain and russia are the majority but there were also other small isolated pieces in other countries too
15:29:30 <drac_boy> well..there is technically one in germany too... a 8+ft gauge traveser .. think it was for boats but I don't remember right now
15:29:51 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: holland started with a 2000mm gauge, and baden with a 1600mm gauge
15:30:47 <Eddi|zuHause> both were re-gauged to standard gauge after it was clear that this one "won"
15:31:36 <frosch123> [17:24] <andythenorth> 600mm <- i thought 609.6mm
15:32:38 <frosch123> hmm, actually no idea how precise a gauge has to be
15:33:03 <drac_boy> eddi and of course don't forget what "Great Western Railway" was supposed to mean at first ... them and their 5ft gauge :)
15:33:23 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Error: unexpected EOF while parsing (<string>, line 1)
15:33:29 <frosch123> @calc 5 * 12 * 25.4
15:33:56 <drac_boy> frosch123 sometimes it does have to be precise .. I remember something about a loaned steam locomotive grinding the turnouts because it was about 9-11mm too wide. goes to show you :-s
15:35:09 *** Eddi|zuHause has joined #openttd
15:35:14 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: wrong button
15:35:28 <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't do anything, the connection to this network disappeared
15:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> everything else kept working
15:42:14 <drac_boy> and there goes andythenorth again
15:42:23 <drac_boy> hi michi_cc once again :p
15:43:33 <drac_boy> and bye, I'm taking a break to start lunch and do other things for the afternoon ;)
15:52:27 *** andythenorth has joined #openttd
15:53:32 <Fori> Anyone who's familiar with ECS?
15:54:01 <andythenorth> try the question, see if anyone answers ;)
15:55:01 <Fori> Will industries like e.g. a Farm require both of the desired goods to "level up"?
15:57:35 <Achilleshiel> i believe, the farm will level up if the transported is high enough
15:59:41 <Achilleshiel> Production change happens according on amount of cargo transported. Every year the industry summarizes the transportation level of the preceding months, scoring "-1" if less than 50% of produced cargo was transported, "+1" if more than 75% was transported and "0" for 50%-75%. Then in December it tests the result; if it is above 4 then production is increased, above 6 increases it twice, and below -4 decreases production. There is a
16:00:05 <Achilleshiel> Fori: thats what the ECS wiki says;)
16:00:20 <Fori> I must have been blind, sorry :X
16:01:57 <Achilleshiel> but this production is halved when the farm does not have vehicles
16:02:20 <Achilleshiel> and it is halved when there is less then 2 tonnes fertilizer waiting
16:02:54 <Achilleshiel> and snow will half it or stop it also;)
16:03:12 <Achilleshiel> i hope you are stil following:P
16:04:26 <Achilleshiel> so when you have no vehicles and no fert. then your max production is 25% of the max
16:04:45 <Fori> I am bringing fertilzer there.
16:05:02 <Fori> It's enough when I transport one of the goods the farm produces for it to level up?
16:05:56 <Achilleshiel> you mean the fertilizer from the factory?
16:07:11 <Achilleshiel> But the farm checks only on the first of december if it will level;)
16:07:40 <Achilleshiel> the fertilizer and cars don't have influens on your level,
16:08:13 <Achilleshiel> that's only the transportation level;)
16:09:13 <Achilleshiel> now i will finish my reallife math:(
16:10:05 <Fori> Right, thanks for helping me.
16:10:16 <Fori> Does the farm care if I only carry ONE good?
16:10:38 *** mahmoud has joined #openttd
16:39:02 <andythenorth> you'll see I'm cheating if you look at the dependencies for that :P
16:39:21 <andythenorth> it's the final small step in a moderately complicated pipeline
16:57:19 <andythenorth> which appears to be 5px
16:57:41 <andythenorth> I need to lose a pixel on the / \ views
16:57:48 <Pikka> well, it's 8 in the | views
16:58:12 <andythenorth> same as the trucks
16:58:20 <andythenorth> how wide in the - view?
16:58:37 <Pikka> normal I think. hard to tell width in that view. :)
16:58:40 <andythenorth> ach why am I asking when we have EZ
16:59:12 <andythenorth> depending on roof slope, looks like you have 4px - 5px in that view
17:05:46 <Pikka> although the wheels stick out a bit ;)
17:06:02 <andythenorth> yeah they need work
17:06:18 <andythenorth> should I lose a pixel from the — view?
17:06:49 <Pikka> I wouldn't necessarily say so
17:08:57 <andythenorth> if you can improve the wheels, feel free ;)
17:26:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24101 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Reverse a condition for increased readability.
17:27:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24102 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Refactor tile clearability test out of the statue callback.
17:27:51 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24103 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Handle clear tiles separately from house tiles.
17:28:29 <DorpsGek> Sacro: I have not seen Illegal.
17:28:33 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Illegal_Alien was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 6 days, 4 hours, 25 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: * Illegal_Alien back to sleepmode
17:28:39 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 2 days, 17 hours, 9 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: <Bjarni> heh
17:29:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24104 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Output the resulting tile through the user data.
17:30:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r24105 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Be more careful with the population of a small town while placing a statue.
17:30:40 <andythenorth> for my next trick....compositing hand-drawn truck cabs with generated bodies
17:39:31 <Alberth> andythenorth: it's just like math, they also get insanely simple if you abstract away enough details :)
17:40:05 <planetmaker> hm :-) Your commits IMHO are a nice example of the difference between "a patch" and "it's trunk", Alberth :-)
17:40:10 <andythenorth> in my >10 year history of coding, mostly I make things worse with abstraction, not better :P
17:41:05 <Alberth> planetmaker: I am a bit rusty, I may be a bit over-careful :)
17:41:20 <frosch123> but we get closer to a cake
17:43:32 <Eddi|zuHause> we should have cake every 100 revisions :=
17:44:51 <Alberth> we should use a time-based scheme, instead of a commit-count based one :)
17:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> other matter: why can't a statue be removed? afair this was changed for the HQ, why not for statue as well?
17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r24106 /trunk/src/lang/latvian.txt:
17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 13 changes by Parastais
17:45:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: we should have cake every week, then :p
17:46:13 <Alberth> we don't have a traveling budget :p
17:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> we should sell openttd for 30$ :)
17:51:17 <andythenorth> just set up a store and see if anyone buys
17:51:34 <andythenorth> I make my living selling open source software, kinda
17:52:14 <andythenorth> although if they do buy, we might need to hire a support ninja and give them a phone :P
17:52:49 <andythenorth> seriously, I reckon OTTD for $30 could make at least $300 / annum
17:54:13 <andythenorth> SpComb: in my case, subscription-based, web-hosted, with full SLA and support
17:54:32 *** Endymion_Mallorn has joined #openttd
17:54:33 <andythenorth> we try to avoid customisation, it's bad for the product
17:55:01 <andythenorth> if you customise for every customer, support costs and sysops time scales linearly with number of customers, and development becomes horrible
17:55:31 <andythenorth> ideally number of customers scales slightly geometrically compared to support + sysops costs
17:55:31 <TinoDidriksen> Can't sell any of the original assets. Is it possible to run the game with 100% FOSS assets these days?
17:55:52 <frosch123> that's possible for two years
17:56:13 <frosch123> it's why 1.0 is called 1.0 :)
17:56:46 <TinoDidriksen> Do all those assets allow reselling?
17:57:26 <Endymion_Mallorn> Did I just walk in on a conversation about OpenTTD becoming a for-pay product?
17:57:28 <planetmaker> But the game works well without and it can be downloaded ingame
17:57:32 <TinoDidriksen> Endymion_Mallorn, no.
17:57:51 <planetmaker> Endymion_Mallorn: difficult with the license chosen :-)
17:57:54 <frosch123> planetmaker: good point, only sell the installer :p
17:58:25 <frosch123> Endymion_Mallorn: you can also pay in natural resources
17:59:09 <Eddi|zuHause> how much does the guy selling "the ability to play transport tycoon on windows" make on ebay?
17:59:25 <Endymion_Mallorn> More than he should be allowed.
17:59:30 <frosch123> the guy selling a german handbook did not make so much
17:59:44 <frosch123> maybe because he invested too much work into it?
18:00:14 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe because it's in german
18:00:38 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe because he didn't do enough marketing
18:00:42 <Alberth> probably, also, it is not really findable in a book shop :)
18:01:09 <andythenorth> just sell the support
18:01:10 <planetmaker> also it's meanwhile outdated
18:01:13 <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can buy it in amazon
18:01:14 <andythenorth> direct line to Rubidium
18:01:17 <andythenorth> or maybe dalestan
18:01:31 <planetmaker> yes, dalestan - type support.
18:01:33 <frosch123> andythenorth: fixing savegames broken by newgrf changes? no, thanks
18:01:38 <planetmaker> He set a precedence for his fees
18:01:46 <Alberth> andythenorth: the profits of sales don to cover the costs :)
18:03:44 <andythenorth> charge for enabling changing newgrf in game
18:04:01 <andythenorth> with automatic credit card rebilling if you then report bugs
18:04:49 <Alberth> the detection is missing currently :D
18:05:07 <Pikka> apart from anything else, it doesn't explain why.
18:05:40 <Alberth> but the text needs work too, I agree
18:09:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i fear if you only check the local "developer" settings, then this warning will also show for ordinary people downloading scenarios online (and subsequently complaining in the forum)
18:10:38 <Alberth> it should really detect newgrf changes in the game, I think
18:11:26 <andythenorth> is that currently stored?
18:11:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes. scenario developer creates scenario. scenario developer changes newgrfs. scenario developer uploads scenario. ordinary user downloads scenario with changed newgrfs
18:11:56 <andythenorth> why can scenario developer change newgrf?
18:13:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: even if they couldn't... the next higher step would be newgrf developer, which only marginally shifts the problem
18:16:02 <frosch123> wow, V453000 quotes daily #400 for #coop :o
18:16:16 <frosch123> only saw that now :)
18:17:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that sentence doesn't quite parse correctly
18:17:19 <frosch123> i am regulary watching day9's shows as well, but i did not try to make a relation to ottd :)
18:18:20 *** MrCruel has joined #openttd
18:21:04 <MrCruel> Is CLI layout string more logical than NLIMC?
18:21:39 <Alberth> no idea what you are asking
18:21:43 <MrCruel> NLIMC - N and M duplicate features that titlebar itself provides
18:23:08 <MrCruel> Openbox uses a letter string to represent title bar layout. NLIMC is the default, corresponding to layout seen on Win32
18:23:50 <Alberth> you are in #open TTD :)
18:24:30 <Alberth> well, welcome anyway, but sorry, no idea :)
18:24:38 <MrCruel> Openbox is a window manager
18:25:09 <Alberth> ah, ok, much saner than gnome I hope
18:25:23 <MrCruel> Gnome went insane in 11.04
18:26:00 <Alberth> I guess it depends on what sort of users you expect to have
18:26:08 <MrCruel> Openbox uses letters to represent title bar parts.
18:26:30 <MrCruel> I - Iconify (minimize)
18:27:00 <Alberth> ah, ok, I never use M :)
18:27:25 <Alberth> but KDE doesn't allow me to remove it, at least I didn't find where yet
18:27:48 <MrCruel> Maximize and Icon elements duplicate functions of right-clicking and double-clicking title bar
18:28:29 <Alberth> ok, sounds like a problem :)
18:28:46 <MrCruel> so in Openbox (and other *box window managers) you can discard certain elements from title bar
18:29:13 <MrCruel> so, CLI or LIC layout is saner than MSFT-standardized NLIMC.
18:30:07 <MrCruel> furthermore, CLI is more consistent for OTTD users - in-game windows have Close on the left
18:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <Alberth> I guess it depends on what sort of users you expect to have <-- i think most projects have a divergence between "users you want" and "users you have" :)
18:30:59 <Eddi|zuHause> (the newgrf changing is one instance where this divergence shows)
18:31:08 <MrCruel> Users Ubuntu "has" are laptop buyers and enthusiasts. Users they "want" are disgruntled MAC fanboys.
18:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> recently KDE is decreasing in usability
18:33:25 <Alberth> I thought they were aiming at the mobile pads market
18:33:38 <Eddi|zuHause> ever more "features" that totally destroy every day tasks
18:33:48 <MrCruel> Well, KDE's QT _IS_ a mobile-centric widget set
18:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't explain anything
18:34:42 <andythenorth> maybe andythenorth should consider Ubuntu
18:34:49 <andythenorth> as a disgruntled OS X user
18:35:01 <Pikka> maybe andythenorth should consider Ubuntu what?
18:35:12 <MrCruel> Ubuntu is lame as blue hell
18:35:24 <MrCruel> and aims at disgruntled OS X users
18:35:36 <Pikka> my father recently installed Ubuntu on something, but he's still fully gruntled with his appleproducts.
18:35:43 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a really tiny feature... but it totally breaks my everyday habits
18:36:22 <MrCruel> Person being OK with OSX yet using Ubuntu... guess he feels the poop missile coming from Google
18:36:43 <MrCruel> Google buys Apple bit-by-bit
18:36:58 <MrCruel> That may start in a year or so
18:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> recently Konsole had this bright idea: on drag&drop, open a popup asking what to do with the drop
18:37:44 <SpComb> Pikka: gruntled? is that a word?
18:37:51 <Eddi|zuHause> BUT: i _never ever_ want to do anything other than "insert as text". so _please_ let me choose it as default, never showing that popup
18:38:22 <MrCruel> I only tried KDE once, and that was KDEgames for Windows
18:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> MrCruel: everything is crap. the question is whether it is crap that you can live with
18:38:28 <peter1138> MrCruel, QT was around long before it hit mobiles
18:38:50 <blathijs> 3TalTablet nodig?
18:39:12 <MrCruel> because of Nokia's idiocy
18:39:42 <MrCruel> Furthermore, Nokia now works on WP7/8 products
18:39:46 <andythenorth> is this going to be one of those 'everything gets worse' conversations?
18:39:52 <Eddi|zuHause> MrCruel: nothing of this is nokia-related
18:39:57 * andythenorth could participate but probably won't
18:40:02 <andythenorth> will there be conspiracy theories?
18:40:04 <Eddi|zuHause> QT is just a framework like any other...
18:40:25 <Eddi|zuHause> it's what the features develped with it which counts
18:40:37 <andythenorth> can I moan about OS X for a bit?
18:41:01 <andythenorth> many good OS are bloatware
18:41:11 <frosch123> [20:37] <Eddi|zuHause> BUT: i _never ever_ want to do anything other than "insert as text". so _please_ let me choose it as default, never showing that popup <- what are the other options?
18:41:19 <andythenorth> bloat is what happens when you start handling the complex cases
18:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: probably depending on what you drop
18:41:45 <frosch123> you mean you get a popup with only one item to choose from?
18:41:51 <MrCruel> Ubuntu is bloatwaredrag*drop a .txt/.doc
18:41:52 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: when dropping files, it's some weird shit about links and stuff
18:42:15 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it had more options, but i can't be bothered with it now
18:42:19 <andythenorth> smart drag? only it puts the 'smart' bit on you?
18:42:22 <frosch123> paste filename vs. paste file content?
18:42:35 <SpComb> upload file and paste url?
18:42:35 <MrCruel> KDE is extremely bad. Kubuntu didn't even boot from pen drive.
18:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it wasn't even that, i believe
18:42:54 <SpComb> MrCruel: kubtunu not booting has very little to do with KDE?
18:42:54 <MrCruel> and KDEgames are all crippled
18:42:59 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: only things that i could never ever imagine a use for
18:43:37 <SpComb> I should get more into customizing my awesome config someday
18:43:49 <andythenorth> building BANDIT rinses my battery
18:43:54 <SpComb> I already did some custom keybindings for switching focus between screens, though
18:44:30 <SpComb> awesome = window manager toolkit that ships with a default config \o/
18:44:45 <SpComb> it's also a little dead, I think
18:44:59 <MrCruel> Best Linux distro is Puppy.
18:45:46 <MrCruel> Knoppix is GLaDOS, plus won't save sessions
18:46:44 <MrCruel> Kubuntu is bloated, to the extent of failing to live-boot
18:47:06 <MrCruel> so Windows 8 is my #1 choice forever!
18:47:16 <MrCruel> Puppy is my #2 choice
18:47:49 * frosch123 gets an idea about the meaning of "mrcruel" :p
18:48:40 * andythenorth ponders the horrible day of switching to Windows
18:48:48 <andythenorth> there's a huge irony
18:49:15 <andythenorth> 10 years ago, Mac communities were full of people worrying about having to switch to Windows
18:49:26 <andythenorth> ...because it was predicted that Apple would die
18:49:38 <andythenorth> ...or at least lose the support of peripheral makers etc
18:50:07 <MrCruel> Apple made it due to iFail, made by chinese workers at Foxconn
18:50:27 <andythenorth> now, the problem is that Apple are horribly successful....which may force many users off OS X
18:51:16 <MrCruel> Apple is preparing users to switching to iPads with keyboards
18:51:36 <andythenorth> for a while they seemed to have a strategy of making (moderately expensive) boxes with commod ity parts, and an open OS
18:51:57 <andythenorth> which is great for doing actual...computing and crap
18:52:11 <andythenorth> but staring into an iOS future leaves me nothing to get work done with
18:52:17 <frosch123> [20:50] <andythenorth> now, the problem is that Apple are horribly successful....which may force many users off OS X <- i thought that is the "red giant" part of the supernova
18:52:40 <andythenorth> consuming its own fuel?
18:52:44 <Rubidium> but... Apple only makes $575 per iOS device
18:53:27 <MrCruel> It's for lefties, I'd never use one
18:53:27 <andythenorth> ^ he's good at this
18:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: how much does microsoft make per android device?
18:53:59 <SpComb> maybe their strategy is to wait for 50% market share at a 50% profit margin, and then give out free iDevices to the remaining 50%
18:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> MrCruel: you don't know anything what you're talking about it seems
18:54:08 <Rubidium> MrCruel: personal experience is that OSX is crashed less than MacOS did (for me personally)
18:54:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: no idea, though Google makes $2
18:54:28 <andythenorth> well it's nice he came by to entertain us
18:55:04 <SpComb> Google isn't into Android for the device sales profit, innit?
18:55:04 <frosch123> [20:53] <SpComb> maybe their strategy is to wait for 50% market share at a 50% profit margin, and then give out free iDevices to the remaining 50% <- lol
18:55:10 <MrCruel> They make a low $ per Android initially, but quite a lot by selling your info to ad givers
18:56:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> [20:53] <SpComb> maybe their strategy is to wait for 50% market share at a 50% profit margin, and then give out free iDevices to the remaining 50% <- lol <-- isn't that what microsoft does with windows? :(
18:56:09 <andythenorth> the more targeted the ads the better
18:56:32 <MrCruel> Microsoft Windows Phone fails
18:57:03 <Rubidium> time for the freerunner then
18:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: but it kinda gets mis-targetet if you bought shoes, and then only get shoe-commercials for the next two weeks
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18:57:44 <MrCruel> It's not what you "bought" but where you are and what you talk of on IM/SMS
18:58:49 <MrCruel> so Google needs to be destroyed, along with MSFT and crApple
18:59:30 <Alberth> makes no difference, you cannot undo what has been reached already
18:59:45 <MrCruel> Crapple's marketing strategy is to zombify us
18:59:54 <MrCruel> GOogle's one - to spy on us
19:00:10 <MrCruel> And MSFT's - to outright scam us
19:00:18 <MrCruel> that's how it goes. :(
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19:01:06 <Alberth> yes, but if you take down one, there are 10 more, so it's useless
19:01:22 <__ln__> MrCruel: do you have anything useful to say or will you shut up now?
19:01:33 <Sahri> I get bored so fast of OpenTTD lately :(
19:01:34 <andythenorth> on about 17 counts
19:01:47 <andythenorth> Pikka: can I pay you to draw trucks?
19:02:27 * andythenorth suspects pikka is calculating a big number
19:02:35 <MrCruel> Microsoft must be handled to Canonical
19:02:37 <andythenorth> he needs the time to type 0s
19:09:23 * Pikka writing a bolg, hang on :P
19:09:27 <andythenorth> I need maybe 7 or 8 trucks
19:09:39 <andythenorth> @calc 8 * 0000000000000000000000
19:10:15 <Alberth> and it's tax-deductable :)
19:10:29 <andythenorth> what about inflation?
19:10:44 <andythenorth> if it takes me 3 months to save up, does the price increase?
19:10:53 <andythenorth> can I get credit?
19:21:37 <andythenorth> didn't make much :(
19:21:42 <andythenorth> no real community around it
19:21:55 <Pikka> even when they do they tend not to :)
19:22:02 <Pikka> well, I guess it depends on the community
19:22:37 <andythenorth> we could charge for newgrfs in bananas
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19:41:09 <andythenorth> Pikka: so 'will make newgrf for food'?
19:41:11 *** drac_boy has joined #openttd
19:41:24 <Pikka> well, no promises andythenorth :)
19:41:30 <andythenorth> put a $2 per-download fee on bananas
19:41:41 <drac_boy> heh whats the new problem now pikka? :p
19:42:53 <andythenorth> @calc 2 * (72932 + 156610 + 249389 + 259495)
19:42:53 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 1476852
19:43:28 <drac_boy> andythenorth you trying to steal money from others? :p
19:43:36 <andythenorth> but...we'd need to give about 30% to paypal, who would hold the money for about a year :P
19:43:44 <andythenorth> and then Rubidium would want 50% as the store owner
19:44:00 <andythenorth> @calc 0.2*1476852
19:44:00 <DorpsGek> andythenorth: 295370.4
19:44:18 <andythenorth> I'd only get $295k dollars for my ~4 years of work :(
19:44:35 <Pikka> not as if it was full-time work though, andy
19:45:15 <andythenorth> might still be more than I've earnt for full time work in that time :P
19:45:52 <andythenorth> Pikka: at AU wages, that's peanuts
19:45:53 <drac_boy> don't mind if I think this topic is silly and go ahead with my own instead - would articulated wagons had been likely on narrow gauge or not so much? (not counting log cars as these are a bit different)
19:46:03 <andythenorth> AU wages seem quite high
19:46:18 <andythenorth> [andythenorth has recently started employing people in AU]
19:46:22 <Pikka> relatively, perhaps. but cost of living is very high too.
19:46:39 <andythenorth> also we charge more in AU :P
19:47:54 <Pikka> @calc 2 * (85043 + 176271 + 548458 + 86062+177653+ 172319 + 155983 + 123870 + 194788 + 185400 + 197172 + 149667 + 150976 + 141219 +166071 + 175076 )
19:49:17 <andythenorth> you just made Rubidium very rich :P
19:49:45 <andythenorth> if we didn't use paypal, then we'd spend less on fees :P
19:50:01 * andythenorth is completely serious
19:50:55 * andythenorth thinks many players won't know how / will find it too much effort to install newgrf manually
19:51:13 <andythenorth> dunno if they'll pay $2 though
19:51:34 <andythenorth> and maybe upgrades would need to be free
19:52:32 <drac_boy> $1? still seem high for small grfs
19:57:53 <drac_boy> maybe a sliding scale in tens between .10 to 1.00?
20:03:18 <drac_boy> andythenorth so beside grf pricings what else's going on with you?
20:07:11 <andythenorth> hmm BANDIT | views look a bit fat to me
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20:09:04 <Pikka> my buses ended up 6 wide
20:09:15 <Pikka> the later generations might be 7
20:10:32 <Pikka> 7 means there's a centre pixel, which can be nice sometimes
20:10:41 * andythenorth likes owning a pixel generator
20:10:46 <andythenorth> makes stuff easier :P
20:11:14 <Pikka> easier than selecting half of a row of | sprites and shifting it over a px? :)
20:12:25 <andythenorth> factor in doing that for say 40 trucks
20:12:32 <andythenorth> in 4 colour schemes :P
20:12:39 <andythenorth> with all the load sprites
20:14:25 <drac_boy> hey michi_cc you there? and don't give me that "no I'm not" line again :P heh
20:15:19 <michi_cc> I'm not the only German in the room, you know :)
20:15:38 <Chris_Booth> not he is not pm is german
20:15:53 <drac_boy> I know...just had to see if you would give me a silly line again or not.... :P
20:17:57 <drac_boy> so anyway if you're not too distracted michi_cc would there be some sort of translation for boxcab? I'm thinking they maybe use a different term but its hard to tell atm
20:18:26 <Eddi|zuHause> translations without context never work
20:18:53 <drac_boy> eddi its not just that but even german rail dictionaries don't have anything helpful on that
20:18:54 <Chris_Booth> boxcab is the same as a caboose/breakvan?
20:19:15 <drac_boy> Chris_Booth nope...old electric/diesel locomotives...looked like box on wheels...hence being called boxcabs
20:19:42 <drac_boy> although sometimes they did have very short hood ends on them (DR as well)
20:20:00 <michi_cc> If I go by the wikipedia page on boxcab I don't think there's any special German name for thise.
20:20:39 <michi_cc> Probably because there ain't much that aren't boxcabs.
20:21:09 * drac_boy at least figured out the transmission I had been looking for for two days, 'dieselhydraulische' hopefully :)
20:21:59 <Chris_Booth> dieselhydraulische isn't a boxcab
20:22:08 <drac_boy> Chris_Booth I said transmission :p
20:22:39 <drac_boy> I don't know if there is ever anything like diesel-mechanical or not tho but I'm going give that another day or two before I forget about it
20:22:45 <Chris_Booth> if in doubt add an en on the end of words to make them german :P boxencaben
20:24:17 <drac_boy> considering that even germany did have some..such as the original Kof I which more precise was diesel-gearbox as far as I recall
20:25:47 <drac_boy> if not I'l just use something that would translate from 'diesel, direct gearbox' or I dunno yet :)
20:26:59 <drac_boy> eddi btw you're right about no context. try translate 'ship' and you could get too many different variances
20:27:06 <drac_boy> ship as in boat .. ship as in shipping boxes .. etc
20:28:44 <Chris_Booth> drac_boy: Diesel-Streckenlokomotiven
20:30:04 <Fori> Anybody have an idea why the profit of a train travelling on the same track in the same time with the same goods could drop from 30.000 to 3.000? (Havin in an ECS game)
20:30:39 <Fori> (Acceptance limits are switched off)
20:30:54 <Fori> It's happening for my friend in our MP server.
20:31:19 <drac_boy> Chris_Booth ah hm thanks, fixed a few cells now
20:31:26 <Fori> As I said, the limits for that are switched off.
20:31:32 <Chris_Booth> check the station and some of it will be transferred into the station rather than dropped
20:31:41 <Chris_Booth> then I am stumped Fori
20:32:02 <Chris_Booth> drac_boy: why not use German wiki to help you?
20:32:22 <Fori> (Just a side not, dunno what you guys are talking about) ^^
20:32:55 <Chris_Booth> you know what a Boxcab would be Fori ?
20:33:03 <drac_boy> Chris_Booth heh I just find some things sometimes a little hard to try compare to between english and deutsch pages...even less when theres no english counterpart
20:33:25 <Fori> Could the reason be that the station he is delivering too has a sand pit too?
20:33:47 <drac_boy> its not related to translation but one example is the RhB locomotives... the english one is missing most of the diesels and passenger coaches which are otherwise represented on the german one
20:34:34 <Fori> Or "Güterwagen" I'd say.
20:35:05 <Chris_Booth> no thats a boxcar not a boxcab
20:35:09 <drac_boy> never mind it fori :p
20:35:35 <Fori> Any Idea to my concerns?
20:35:55 <drac_boy> at least the sprites view in buy list would make it obvious so I might not have to bother with trying to translate that term
20:36:10 <drac_boy> fori...no idea sorry
20:36:34 <Fori> k, thx, I'm gone playing again ^^
20:37:09 <drac_boy> bye and have fun fori :p
20:37:32 <Fori> But the issue is quite annoying... Cause my friend keeps nagging bout it ^^
20:37:56 <NGC3982> german-ish words is bliss.
20:38:12 <drac_boy> btw does anyone think there is any point in having gas-powered locomotives running in the 1920s? (as compared to diesel)
20:38:20 <drac_boy> just asking about it in general
20:39:42 <NGC3982> gas-powered, as in gas-turbine-powered?
20:40:46 <Fori> What's more important PS or kN?
20:41:11 <Chris_Booth> Fori: really depends, kN give you acceleration, but PS gives you topspeed
20:41:24 <Fori> Since I don't get why my trains keep getting more PS and less kN
20:41:46 <Chris_Booth> drac_boy: the closest I could find to boxcab would be Güterzüge, which roughly translates to good locomotive
20:41:49 <drac_boy> no just gas-fueled piston power .. like cars :)
20:41:53 <Fori> So when a train has more PS it is likely it has higher top speed?
20:41:59 * andythenorth generating trailers in multiple lengths
20:42:12 <drac_boy> fori well its a tricky balance between PS and kN I believe :)
20:42:15 <Chris_Booth> yes Fori think PS for passengers kN for frieght
20:42:31 <drac_boy> if you have eg 100PS but only 1kN the loco would barely crawl at a snail :p
20:42:50 <Fori> Isnt the kN resulting from the PS in reality?
20:42:51 <drac_boy> likewise 10PS and 200kN would be....haul a lot but .. go really low top speed
20:42:56 <Fori> Or am I getting something wrong?
20:43:08 <drac_boy> I dunno, its difficult for me to understand sometimes
20:43:25 <drac_boy> andythenorth you mean like as in B-train and road train? :)
20:43:26 <Chris_Booth> kN is tractive effort, and only apply while you are traction limited
20:43:26 <Fori> Is there anything you'd say to have like 200kN per 1000 tonnes?
20:43:45 <drac_boy> fori as I said, its a bit of math science...not quite my thing sorry :)
20:44:17 <drac_boy> NGC3982 so what do you think? gas-powered pistons locomotive in the 1920s or rather unlikely? :)
20:44:45 <drac_boy> btw I did think a bit about turbine locomotives but then decided to not bother as who would ever actually think of building one for a slower narrow gauge rail?
20:45:40 <andythenorth> tank and flat trailers in multiple lengths (7/8 and 5/8) , multiple colour schemes, with multiple different cargo sprites
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20:46:02 * andythenorth generates andythenorth
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20:46:14 <drac_boy> andythenorth heh have fun with that :)
20:46:28 <drac_boy> NGC3982 so, whats your answer then? :p
20:46:34 <andythenorth> drac_boy: what are you actually doing?
20:46:43 <andythenorth> do you have a tracking table or something?
20:47:04 <NGC3982> drac_boy: well, since i crearly dont understand the difference, i suggest not listening to me :p
20:47:13 <drac_boy> andythenorth tracking table and various sprites atm ... might share something on the forum near middle of month or so
20:48:08 <andythenorth> what is it? train set I assume?
20:48:10 <drac_boy> NGC3982 well...look at it this way... pistons is the thing that moves up and down on a shaft...delivering power on the downstroke .... turbine is that thing that looks like a large fan with shaped blades ... fuel gushes into an port into the blades :)
20:48:50 <drac_boy> andythenorth a generic set with some other things included including some buildings/stations (well need to due to the different scale used)
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20:50:04 <drac_boy> hi Rhamphoryncus finally :)
20:50:15 <drac_boy> btw grab a glass of water, its a busy time in here :p heh heh
20:50:59 <Rhamphoryncus> heh. What's up?
20:51:38 <drac_boy> not much, still talking a bit about translations .. and andythenorth as usual is still sprouting things left and rights (now its road trucks apparently) :p
20:53:32 <drac_boy> btw Rhamphoryncus I may as well as ask you too just since....do you think that gas-powered locomotives should exist into the 1920s or not so much? :) (and I'm not talking about turbines...blame that on NGC3982 ha)
20:53:59 <NGC3982> drac_boy: i know what a turbine is, u just didnt get that you didnt talk about gas-turbine engines :)
20:54:37 <drac_boy> NGC3982 mind you you could had run turbines on bunker C oil too ;)
20:55:05 <drac_boy> or thats what UP used to do till ever-rising prices finally made it hard to justify the limited turbine locomotives against the diesel fleets
20:55:33 <drac_boy> the funny thing is...one of the unoffical nickname for the UP turbines was "big blow" since that was pretty much what they did :p
20:55:44 <Rhamphoryncus> drac_boy: I have no idea :)
20:56:24 <drac_boy> NGC3982 the main reason UP had no problem running a few different turbine locomotives was to do with their remote flatland routes .. perfect place for nonstop hot freights hauled by turbines
20:58:09 <drac_boy> NGC3982 mind you the same routes was also where UP ran 10-coupled steam locomotives, most other roads had to stay with 4-8-4 as the best loco possible till simple articulated came
20:59:33 <drac_boy> NGC3982 btw there were a few individual coal turbines in usa but all of them always had a short life from the one same problem basically...
20:59:44 <drac_boy> coal dust + blades = chewn up over time
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21:02:12 * drac_boy throws some extra trailer dualie tires at andythenorth
21:03:26 <drac_boy> btw NGC3982 while looking up example steam locomotives I came across one site with a few photos and quick description of a few unusual german steam locomotives...one of them I would had not thought of trying..
21:04:55 <drac_boy> it was a normal 4-6-0 (or as far as the look goes) but with additional pipes draped across boiler and extra large pipe between cab and tender... for it was housing a seperate small turbine drive on the tender itself
21:05:32 <drac_boy> have to imagine they must had thought they could try get the fuel economy of normal pistons at low speeds or around stations but use the turbine at nonstop high speed
21:07:22 <drac_boy> you want a photo of it NGC3982
21:08:31 <andythenorth> Pikka: dan's cabover truck looks better 1px smaller
21:08:31 <andythenorth> was a bit fat before
21:09:36 <Rubidium> drac_boy: that's a nice spiral, though I already have NGC1300 as background which I think is even prettier
21:10:01 <drac_boy> heh whats a ngc1300? 0_o
21:10:32 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a star formation, obviously...
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21:13:17 <NGC3982> Eddi|zuHause, Rubidium: drac_boy was hilightning me, not asking if we wanted a photo on the stellar object.
21:13:35 <NGC3982> and NGC3982 > NGC1300.
21:14:27 <NGC3982> although, 1300 is about 2Mp closer to earth.
21:14:33 <drac_boy> the rear siderods are the turbine drive fyi
21:14:35 <NGC3982> drac_boy: that's neat.
21:15:08 <drac_boy> eddi I know but that probably does not cover dual pistons+turbine locomotives tho
21:15:32 <drac_boy> and for the record the S2 was a good idea but it had two bad limitiations including no lowspeed turbines :)
21:15:33 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: 38 3255 is in that lost
21:17:28 <drac_boy> NGC3982 I don't know how many people did it but you can fire a steam locomotive on coke apparently
21:18:00 <drac_boy> theres always something unusual to find about steam locomotives, just have to look for a while :P
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21:19:17 <drac_boy> NGC3982 mind you some of these sugarcane steamers could be fired on waste canes first then when that runs out they switch to the pile of firewood left near back of the tender :)
21:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> steam engines exist in all kinds of burning material varants... from wood to oil
21:19:25 <drac_boy> I guess the waste cane was a 'free' fuel after all
21:20:05 <drac_boy> causes quite a lot of sparks as you can imagine tho. and yes many of these little locos had big diamond smokestacks
21:21:53 <Fori> When replacing trains and turning "coach removal" on is there an option to make the trains stay the same length when replacing trains and the trains are smaller than the one replaced?
21:22:05 <drac_boy> and yes that is one BIG diamond stack :)
21:22:42 <drac_boy> fori I think autoreplace never ever worked well for anything with different lengths but I may be wrong tho
21:23:03 <Fori> It worked fine for me ^^
21:23:11 <Rhamphoryncus> Autoreplace from short -> long works if you turn on car removal
21:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> Fori: you cannot add wagons during autoreplace
21:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Fori: there's a very early development version of a "template based train replacement", which may do what you want
21:24:46 <Eddi|zuHause> details in the forum
21:25:08 * drac_boy goes back to doing a bit more work again
21:25:18 * drac_boy deletes the one gas loco row too
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21:26:50 <drac_boy> oh, yeah there is one thing I need to look up a translation for unless someone wants to beat me to it...
21:27:08 <drac_boy> what do you call a electro-diesel (or electric-diesel) in deutsch? :)
21:27:35 * drac_boy would had tried the RhB loco I knew except that the page isn't in both languages
21:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <drac_boy> I don't know if there is ever anything like diesel-mechanical or not tho but I'm going give that another day or two before I forget about it <-- diesel-mechanic is mainly used in cars and lorries, where the forces aren't as high as in trains. but some railcars used diesel-mechanic transmission
21:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there existed a few tries with diesel-pneumatic transmission, but i don't think those were huge successes :)
21:31:33 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: you mean an electric engine that may also be powered by diesel?
21:31:58 <drac_boy> eddi yeah, could operate as either electric or diesel-electric
21:33:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd call it a "Diesel E-Lok", but i don't know if that is an official name :)
21:37:40 <Fori> drac? I think we solved it.
21:38:12 <drac_boy> eddi btw I think I'm going with '4 Achsen Tender' unless theres an alternative wording for trucks/bogies rather than fixed axles :)
21:38:22 <drac_boy> fori heh ok, now go back and keep playing silly :P
21:38:37 <drac_boy> fori...just because you are? :P
21:38:56 <drac_boy> fori...you telling me you're not playing anymore now? :)
21:39:19 <Fori> Wasnt it you I talked about the train's revenue changing?
21:40:04 <drac_boy> fori no..more about stockpiling issues
21:41:09 <Fori> I turned the stockpiles off but when you have more than 65.000.000 Liters of Oil waiting at a refinery
21:41:17 <Fori> it starts giving low cash.
21:42:08 <Fori> I dunno if that's intended or buggy.
21:42:28 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: a "truck"/"bogie" is mostly covered by "Drehgestell", but that's usually redundant in wagon descriptions. nobody builds fixed 4-axle wagons :p
21:43:01 <drac_boy> that was what I had thought too :p
21:43:37 <drac_boy> I'll be honest, I sometimes hate the issues caused by more than one english language tho heh
21:44:00 <drac_boy> petrol .. gasoline .. gas ... WHATEVER!!! they're the same thing goddamn it :)
21:46:13 <Rhamphoryncus> Fori: I've had maxed out stockpiles and didn't notice anything different
21:46:32 <Rhamphoryncus> And I don't think it could anyway
21:47:16 * drac_boy rolls a viehwaggon eddi's way and wonders if I'll get anything live when it comes back :)
22:01:36 <Fori> When my Oil rifereny has 65 mil litres of oil waiting
22:01:43 <Fori> It won't pay good cash anymore.
22:01:59 <Fori> I think it's the hard coded maximum of what's accepted.
22:02:37 <Fori> It's excactly 65.535.000 Litres
22:02:46 <Fori> Anything that come sover that amout is simply not payed.
22:02:59 <Rhamphoryncus> not afaik. Yes, that's a limit on storage, but acceptance should happen regardless. The rest just evaporates
22:03:27 <Fori> Yeah, acceptance happens but the earning decrease from 800k a train to 80k a train.
22:04:33 <Fori> We tested it with a glass works and a refinery.
22:04:44 <Fori> For the glass works it was like 65.353 tonnes of sand waiting.
22:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> drac_boy: Viehwaggons haven't been used for many years now
22:04:58 <Rhamphoryncus> Well, ECS is designed for very strict production amounts. Even if this didn't happen it still didn't scale up production to match the stored amount
22:05:34 <Fori> Yeah, but I think cutting the profit isnt as designed when turning off the max storage acceptance, or?
22:06:16 <Rhamphoryncus> My suggestion is to not turn off max storage acceptance :)
22:06:21 <Fori> At least we identified the issue now
22:06:30 <Fori> We could do that, true ^^
22:06:47 <Fori> But every ttd game gets "apocalyptic" once in a while.
22:09:11 <Rhamphoryncus> I've got to go. I'll be back in 4 or 8 hours or something :)
22:09:49 <drac_boy> eddi yeah I know but I'm starting in 1920 so :)
22:10:06 <drac_boy> have a cattle>food circle to transport
22:10:48 <Fori> When can I rename a city?
22:13:19 <drac_boy> B'n2 Schlepptenderlok - Lokalbahnlokomotive, 2 Achsen Tender - Jahr 1920 - 40km/h Fahrt ... that should be an interesting one to try run :)
22:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> B' doesn't make sense
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22:19:46 <drac_boy> its actually a B but unless I'm reading it wrong they often have a ' between that and the h/n letter
22:20:47 * drac_boy might still have a thing or two to learn ... especially as one of the locomotive still doesn't have any axle labels yet
22:23:24 *** Zeknurn` is now known as Zeknurn
22:34:39 <drac_boy> anyway, supper so be back in a bit :)
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22:54:53 <drac_boy> eddi btw its the only one non-superheated steam I have but then its size and price makes the reason for that a bit obvious :)
23:00:38 <Achilleshiel> Fori: still there?
23:05:45 <Fori> What's the matter Achilleshiel?
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continue to next day ⏵
