IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2012-02-22
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00:03:49 <V453000> actually very efficient :p
00:04:29 <V453000> the fast trains cannot go faster than the slow ones anyway, and if they try to, they will just bump into them and make the line less full than it could be
00:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the capacity of a (timetabled) line is depending on the difference between the fastest and the slowest train on the line, thus by slowing down the fast trains, you increase capacity
00:06:48 <pjpe> i mean if you buy a faster train but then use it at a lower speed
00:06:57 <pjpe> you paid mostly for the capability of a higher speed
00:08:23 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't mean you reduce the speed _all_ the time
00:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have one very congested section on the main line, that you can't expand
00:08:54 <Eddi|zuHause> but on the rest of the line you have separated express and cargo trains
00:09:46 <pjpe> i thought it was just a speed limit overall
00:10:39 <Eddi|zuHause> that would have been senseless indeed :p
00:11:07 <pjpe> so how do you set the limit
00:11:12 <pjpe> for x days you go max this speed?
00:11:51 <Eddi|zuHause> no, from one waypoint/station to the next
00:12:55 <pjpe> and will the auto timetable thing set it
00:13:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so
00:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i think this scenario screwed me out of half the game... it said capture the 5 elemental cities. and then it ends when i capture the most distant city, without owning all the others
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08:33:00 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: i'm messing with colors to get a grasp of how to work with an essentially unlimited color palette, and i think we can get some much nicer colors without the limitations of 8bpp
08:33:20 <Elukka> just some quick adjustments, but i think it pops out better, besides being more accurate
08:33:32 <Elukka> and it's really easy to make them brighter or darker or whatever
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09:08:19 <peter1138> okay... given a string: A=Alice, B=Bob, C="Comma, test"
09:08:25 <peter1138> best way to parse that? :p
09:12:10 <Eddi|zuHause> with a proper grammar?
09:12:46 <peter1138> don't bring my nan into this
09:15:47 <dihedral> [A-Z]=(?:\"([^\"]+)"|\w)
09:16:02 <dihedral> ops, forgot to escape that last "
09:16:44 <dihedral> of course that will not work if you start something like D="fish \" has quotes\""
09:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> something along the lines of: token = r"[A-Za-z]+", string=r'[^"]+', "list : ", "list : list ',' entry", "entry : token '=' token", "entry : token '=' string"
09:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause> modulo whitespace handling
09:17:27 <Eddi|zuHause> string = r'"[^"]*"'
09:18:25 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, but you do not necessarily want to keep the quotes in the parsed content.
09:19:48 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: that can be handled by an intermediate string token, that strips the quotes
09:20:32 <Eddi|zuHause> and escaping can be done by string = r'"([^"]|\")*"' or something
09:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> r'"([^"\]|\")*"'
09:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> well, actually escaping the \ might help :)
09:22:20 <dihedral> why are you escaping ]
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14:45:14 <Eddi|zuHause> new milestone in introducing ipv6: an actual DDoS has been witnessed :p
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17:28:16 <welshdragon> Question: I'm hosting (on my VPS) a copy of Ch ill's PP, but it's 'too fast' for the clients
17:28:27 <welshdragon> is there a solution to this?
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17:29:02 <Rubidium> change the MILLISECONDS_PER_TICK variable?
17:29:10 <Rubidium> s/variable/constant/
17:29:31 <welshdragon> is this in the .cfg file?
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17:53:45 <Eddi|zuHause> besides, nml could optimize the *4 into a shift
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18:08:11 <dihedral> hehe - beamer gives my facebook 'wall' a completely new feeling ^^
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18:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause> is that an openttd bug? when a "read past end of pseudo sprite" error is encountered, all vehicles defined so far are still active...
18:21:07 <frosch123> that depends on when the error occurs
18:21:13 <frosch123> i.e. during which loading stage
18:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess then varaction2 is read very late
18:21:48 <Eddi|zuHause> but... anyone got a clue about the actual error?
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18:22:59 <frosch123> you are reading var 7a without param?
18:23:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that's supposed to be FA
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18:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> that happens when i try to use raw hex :p
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18:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that site doesn't load
18:32:25 <Eddi|zuHause> and of course i mistype the issue number as well :p
18:33:53 <Eddi|zuHause> so anyway, it's probably an nml bug that it doesn't validate using var 60+ with parameter
18:34:21 <Eddi|zuHause> //!!Warning (86): Offset 4: Testing nonexistant variable 62. <-- my nforenum is probably slightly outdated
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18:44:45 <frosch123> the "rdata.grf" topic is awesome :)
18:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r23975 /trunk/src/lang/ (french.txt norwegian_bokmal.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by OliTTD
18:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 44 changes by mantaray
18:45:47 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: urdu - 73 changes by haider
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18:55:18 <frosch123> we should trademark the file extension "grf"
18:56:50 <andythenorth> we should trademark 'lol'
18:56:59 <andythenorth> and use the royalties for something
18:57:10 <andythenorth> dunno what though
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19:01:23 * Alberth starts to lack not having a 'you got highlighted' icon at the desktop :p
19:01:48 <andythenorth> I have bouncing dock icon :P
19:01:52 <andythenorth> I turned off growl and such
19:02:15 <Alberth> anyways, I looked at your document, and I like it
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19:02:26 <Alberth> although the end becomes a tad unclear :)
19:03:46 <andythenorth> it would be nice to refactor / repackage, then inflict it on others :)
19:04:04 <andythenorth> I don't at all mind rewriting my test gestalts to new methods
19:04:39 <Alberth> what is it that you want from me?
19:04:59 <andythenorth> as much help as you can spare :)
19:05:20 <andythenorth> I don't mind refactoring the code with new classes and such
19:05:26 <andythenorth> but my python is quite clunky
19:07:05 <Alberth> I don't have the picture entirely sharp yet, it needs more discussion imho to get a full understanding of what you want to have
19:07:29 <andythenorth> I have a pattern of work-baby-interrupted sleep-work right now
19:07:42 <andythenorth> time for coding is almost none
19:08:20 <Alberth> I should prepare some questions for you, I think
19:08:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> lo Alberth <-- "lo" is too close to "lol", you have to pay royalties now :p
19:09:08 <andythenorth> is it for a good cause? :P
19:11:07 <Alberth> I object, it is only 2/3 of the word, and if you count the "word picture" (how to word looks if you look at it in a glance) too, less than 1/2
19:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: trademarks don't work like that :p
19:13:29 <Eddi|zuHause> but you missed the previous few lines before you joined :p
19:13:51 <Alberth> that's kind of normal, you know :p
19:14:33 <Alberth> it makes me blissfully unaware of all the secret stuff discussed here :)
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19:17:47 <andythenorth> trademarks are very hard to defend
19:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if your trademark is magenta or has a T in it... :p
19:21:35 * Alberth thinks the T in Terkhen is a trademark by Terkhen himself
19:25:07 * andythenorth wonders if 'GPL' is trademarked as a term?
19:25:13 <andythenorth> might be a useful one to get
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19:26:12 <Alberth> only useful if you are RMS :)
19:26:37 <Alberth> except he would never get it, I think :)
19:26:56 <Alberth> (as in, not having any desire to)
19:41:58 <Terkhen> Terkhen is not trademarked, but it is protected by a "it's complicated to write" clause
19:43:15 <andythenorth> my auto-complete writes it without trouble :)
19:51:25 <Alberth> it copies it rather than writing it :)
19:51:51 <andythenorth> do I have copyright permission?
19:54:06 <Terkhen> andythenorth: you might receive an invoice soon
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20:33:11 <andythenorth> Alberth: what's best way to answer? inline in to your questions?
20:33:40 <Alberth> any way that you like
20:39:52 <andythenorth> Alberth: there's nothing I don't agree with, so nitpick reply not needed ;)
20:40:14 <andythenorth> I don't know if the scanline renderer is needed - I haven't written the compositor yet :)
20:40:53 <Alberth> it was a first version to see how it worked imho
20:41:05 <Alberth> it looks like you want something more advanced :)
20:41:21 <Alberth> but perhaps changing the renderer is not the first priority
20:43:49 <andythenorth> I think cleaning up the other pixa objects is probably more important
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20:48:12 <Alberth> and way more interesting :)
20:49:31 <andythenorth> Alberth: taking some of your questions...
20:49:56 <andythenorth> PixaSequenceCollection - somewhat overlapish with gestalt < yes
20:50:09 <andythenorth> gestalt also knows how to handle the conventions for save, load etc
20:50:23 <andythenorth> and provides for different load sprites etc
20:50:39 <andythenorth> but the sequences are a big block of code in current gestalts
20:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i find this use of the word "gestalt" weird
20:51:19 <Alberth> not a word borrowed from you?
20:51:29 <supermop> gestalt has a different 'feeling' in english than german
20:51:40 <supermop> we use it differently that you guys do
20:51:54 <supermop> mostly in art and aesthetic theory
20:52:10 <andythenorth> what does it mean in german?
20:52:33 <supermop> i thought just 'design', right?
20:52:53 * andythenorth visits the current source of all human knowledge
20:53:03 <Eddi|zuHause> more like "shape" in general
20:53:14 <Alberth> andythenorth: I was wondering about the role of each object, ie what does each object do, and where is the border? Leaving it unclear maens it will get hard to separate things
20:53:27 <andythenorth> that's a gestalt question :P
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20:54:39 <andythenorth> Alberth: there seem to be quite a lot of quite small classes imo
20:54:46 <andythenorth> although that could be fine
20:55:26 <Alberth> possibly, I am mostly trying to separate things, as it makes it more clear who does what
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20:55:53 <Alberth> perhaps a bit too much
20:56:23 <andythenorth> I'll put your proposed classes in a new doc
20:56:35 <Alberth> but it is hard to judge without a concrete definition of what they should do exactly
20:57:29 <Alberth> on the other hand, it makes the structure also more flexible, as you can derive a new class and hook it into the structure
20:58:16 <andythenorth> not sure how best to figure that out - talk you through making a gestalt? re-draft the spec?
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20:59:28 <Alberth> imho make the classes more concrete in defining their purpose, and probably also some functionality that you want to have
21:03:31 <Alberth> writing a user manual may also work. It forces you to think about what exactly should be possible, and how to write it down such that a user can understand it. Only problem is that it is a lot of work :p
21:11:27 <andythenorth> I'm making the list of classes, but in-between work and house chores :P
21:20:08 <andythenorth> Alberth: this lacks context - but something like a PixaSequenceCollection - what does it gain over a dict / list?
21:21:58 * frosch123 wonders about the correlation of the german words "Solarförderung" and "Olförderung"
21:22:16 <Alberth> Random guesses: Room to define/change order, handle pixa-mixing, loading/saving pixasequences (pixas :) )
21:22:44 <Alberth> in short, you may want to do other things than just have a mapping
21:23:31 * andythenorth was happy to construct that without help :)
21:23:57 <andythenorth> but my dicts / lists in the gestalts got...messy
21:25:12 <Alberth> it often starts with simple data structs, which is good for experimenting
21:25:55 <Alberth> but the standard data structures cannot be simply extended in functionality
21:26:12 <andythenorth> that's how I discovered the need for PixaSequence
21:26:53 <andythenorth> ok - other questions were:
21:27:06 <andythenorth> z indexes? what are those?? < depth / drawing order when compositing
21:27:25 <andythenorth> e.g. truck with 2 steel coils composited, draw the front most one over the rearmost ;)
21:27:36 <andythenorth> flash / css term :)
21:27:59 <Alberth> makes sense once you hear the explanation :)
21:28:05 <andythenorth> How would you control it? Just a fixed order, or something more fancy? < list?
21:28:43 <andythenorth> something more fancy suggests setting bounding boxes, then calculating z positions? overkill...
21:28:44 <Alberth> would be fine I think, it sort of depends a bit on how many of these things you have
21:29:09 <andythenorth> the drawing of them is controlled by magic pixels, so =< 256
21:29:14 <Alberth> I meant "more fancy than a fixed order" actually :)
21:29:30 <andythenorth> did you have ideas for that?
21:30:09 <Alberth> a list would be a quite simple and adequate solution I think
21:30:37 <Alberth> but I was somewhat worried about the number of items
21:30:57 <andythenorth> I think it should be fine
21:31:35 <Alberth> you could something like 'in increasing index number' over a range, and have a list of ranges
21:32:05 <andythenorth> that would reflect how I plan to draw the pixels
21:32:07 <Alberth> that's a bit more compact, and would still be simple enough
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21:32:31 <andythenorth> I'm mostly working in ranges of neighbouring indexes
21:33:00 <Alberth> sounds much saner than taking random pixel colours each time :p
21:35:37 <Alberth> any other urgent questions? It's almost bed time for me
21:36:13 <andythenorth> we can chew on this for a while ;)
21:36:33 * andythenorth has to finish some actual work and go to sleep too
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