IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-18
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00:05:31 <Markk> Good evening everyone. :)
00:06:31 <Markk> Is there yet any NewGRF:s for subway stations (or train stations overall) that are underground?
00:07:19 <Markk> I have a weak memory of that but can't remember if it was a "real" underground station or just a station that looked like it was underground.
00:07:47 <Markk> (A station that had some houses on top of it that was just there for the looks)
00:08:15 <fjb|tab> Real underground is not possible.
00:10:17 <Eddi|zuHause> there was only a fake undergound station as "new object"
00:10:55 <Markk> Mkay, is OpenTTD coded that way and GRF:s can't make an underground station?
00:11:06 <Markk> Eddi|zuHause: ah, I think that is the one I'm thinking of
00:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> mo, that one definitely not
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00:14:55 <Markk> Mkay, I'll continue to look around. :)
00:15:07 <Markk> Thanks for the update though Eddi|zuHause. :)
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00:38:21 <TrueBrain> Zuu: no, I haven't made any updates yet; I have it ready, but I was waiting to finish something else before I push
00:38:29 <TrueBrain> but I have been away all day; will do it tomorrow :)
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03:24:52 <DemeGeek> openttd.cfg goes in /usr/share/games/openttd/ right?
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06:42:37 <Rubidium> DemeGeek: that's generally not a good location for the configuration file due to issues with file rights
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08:23:47 * andythenorth is experimenting with a reduced sleep regime
08:24:01 <andythenorth> for health reasons only :P
08:37:23 <andythenorth> a better UK road set is needed
08:47:35 <andythenorth> how much extra storage would delivered cargo history for industries require?
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08:57:29 <planetmaker> andythenorth: FIRS currently stores this and last month in the perm. storage
08:57:56 <andythenorth> this would need to be provided by the game imho
08:58:05 <andythenorth> for a stats GUI ;)
08:58:20 <planetmaker> well... it would use 3 words
08:58:27 <andythenorth> and you'd probably want it by company...
08:58:53 <planetmaker> per industry and company? Nah, that's uninteresting for the industry really
09:00:10 <andythenorth> it's more for the player
09:00:55 <planetmaker> the industry doesn't know where it gets cargo from
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09:20:07 * andythenorth finds a use for auto-refit
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12:56:58 <Zuu> Hmm, nobody reported that OTTDAU failed to detect that nogo-0.1 != nogo-1.0 :-)
12:57:39 <Zuu> I strip away the content after the dash because that is most often used for a branch tag which some fail to add both to clients and finger.
12:58:07 <Zuu> So now I've updated it to require the branch tags to be [a-z0-9]*$
12:59:45 <Rubidium> what about the 1.1 branch? ;)
13:00:10 <Zuu> that one had the same problem. But now it works. (if you were refering to nogo)
13:00:33 <Rubidium> no, the stable release branch ;)
13:01:30 <Zuu> Oh, but one doesn't have a dash. In addition it is even supported on the client side.
13:02:52 <Zuu> I have a special case for hg revisions and other things that I didn't think of when I wrote the program. It is in this code where I hand this problem, so it doesn't even affect the official realeases.
13:23:47 <Alberth> programming is all about covering all edge cases :)
13:24:44 <frosch123> though sometimes only about covering all edge cases you expect the customer to test
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14:04:52 <TrueBrain> Zuu: just remember that nogo-1.0 is something I made up :p I know others use name_version (_ instead of -) :P
14:04:58 <TrueBrain> it is nowhere near official or anything :)
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15:09:53 <Zuu> TrueBrain: I know, and at some point someone will make something up that will break the current rules...
15:11:19 <TrueBrain> now you are just challening me :D
15:11:45 <Zuu> Eg -r1, -r2, etc. would break the current rules.
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15:13:20 <Zuu> The hardest would be someone using named versions like eg -orange -banana .. etc.
15:13:53 <valhallasw> as long as it's alphabetical ;-)
15:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> what if you reach version 26?
15:14:39 <TrueBrain> Zuu: sounds like a plan :D
15:15:14 <Zuu> in that case I would need to check if client/finger both has something after a dash and in that case not strip it away. (or just strip away if one source misses it)
15:16:03 <Zuu> ... or suggest that cargodist is fixed to include -cd in both sources :-)
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15:28:37 <kais58> anyone know how to setup newgrfs for a dedicated server?
15:29:21 <V453000> create a savegame in single player and then load the savegame on the server
15:29:31 <Alberth> make a config with a normal version, and move it to the server
15:31:12 * andythenorth wonders if CHIPS is broken with AIs
15:31:52 <LordAro> i think nocab uses newgrf stations
15:46:31 <Zuu> There is a AI API to build cargo specific stations. It probably takes a cargo id/type as argument in addition to the usual arguments.
15:48:24 <Yexo> andythenorth: CHIPS is not broken, we just never implemented cb 16
15:48:36 <andythenorth> and the mystery was solved :)
15:48:56 <Yexo> main problem with that callback: the only useful information we get is the cargo type
15:49:08 <Yexo> CHIPS stations don't really depend on the cargo type, but ore on the industry
15:49:25 <Yexo> but we only get the substitute type in case of newgrf industries
15:49:35 <Yexo> that means we can't properly match the ground type to the industry
15:49:51 <Yexo> unless FIRS was changed so the substitute industry type would depend on the ground type the industry has
15:49:51 <andythenorth> doesn't matter to me :P
15:49:59 <Yexo> but that's abuse of the substitute type
15:50:11 <andythenorth> I don't play with AI on
15:50:24 <Yexo> if you don't care about matching groundtypes, a simple cb 18 implementation that always returns the same station type would be simple
15:50:29 * andythenorth exhibits "I'm alright Jack" attitude :D
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16:43:51 * Zuu is amazed that cloning of vehicels appear to have been broken for several days before it got reported/fixed
16:44:39 <frosch123> actually i encountered it myself yesterday :p it was repored while i was fixing it :p
16:45:13 <Alberth> not many people playing nightlies, I guess
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16:46:04 <Zuu> at least not between the weekends
16:50:42 <frick> How does a road vehicle pick up resources from a train station, and more importantly, CAN it?
16:51:06 <Zuu> Actually, it is the train that should use the transfer order.
16:51:23 <Zuu> If you want to transfer cargo from a train to the truck that is.
16:51:25 <Rubidium> and make sure the road stop and station are part of the same station, i.e. they have the same name
16:51:47 <Rubidium> and the station flag should have a train and truck icon before the name
16:52:18 <Zuu> You can use ctrl+click when building the second station and select the first one in the list that pops up.
16:52:28 <Zuu> Another way is to build the second station adjacent to the first one.
16:52:58 <frick> Finally, an IRC channel where people answer -_-
16:59:48 <Terkhen> depends on the time you ask :P
17:00:03 <Terkhen> people coming at night (in europe) usually don't have much luck
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17:36:35 <kais58> is a UDP connection to the server required for newgrfs to work?
17:38:27 <Eddi|zuHause> UDP is only used for getting the server list and server info. after you click "join server", everything is TCP
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18:21:00 <IchGuckLive> hi all after 13 years of hard work i managed to get all places connected and own 10mio what whoudt be the next step
18:21:44 <IchGuckLive> i guess get all factorys and buyable industries to the citys
18:22:17 <IchGuckLive> getting the production above 80%
18:22:39 <IchGuckLive> and try to fill the hole map ?
18:24:31 <Eddi|zuHause> get all industries to maximum production (for mines this is something around 2000-4000, for factories it's something around 25000-35000)
18:25:10 <IchGuckLive> what shoudt i spend the money most
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18:49:57 <Alberth> you can also use the cheat to get rid of excess money :p
18:50:18 <valhallasw> or build some awesome tunnels from one side of the map to the other
18:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> once upon a time those gave negative costs :p
18:53:17 <Eddi|zuHause> (i used this once because my money overflowed)
18:55:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp:2086: Town* AirportGetNearestTown(const AirportSpec*, byte, TileIndex): Assertion `layout < as->num_table' failed.
18:55:54 <Eddi|zuHause> trying to load a TTD/TTO savegame
18:57:09 <frosch123> oilrig conversion broken again?
18:57:13 <TrueBrain> TTD, TTO or TTDp? :)
18:58:46 <frosch123> hmm, i can load a tto game with oilrigs
18:59:08 <TrueBrain> I guess if he links the savegame, it would be easiest so solve ;)
18:59:34 <TrueBrain> they are not even close to eachother ..
18:59:35 <frosch123> hmm, its a ttd game, no tto
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19:01:14 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i identify the savegame file?
19:03:04 <frosch123> move them to different dirs?
19:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it should possibly display the filename in the info field :p
19:13:36 <Rubidium> might tell the filename
19:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like updating trunk fixed it, though
19:14:57 <frosch123> yeah, we had some bug like that 3 week ago :p
19:19:03 <Eddi|zuHause> tiles under bridges get converted to dirt, not grass
19:19:57 <Eddi|zuHause> anything we can do to "fix" the "broken" town names?
19:20:29 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. implement a (hidden) town name generator that reproduces the old names?)
19:22:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and what happened to my static newgrfs?
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19:24:32 <Eddi|zuHause> this is almost definitely a bug: TTO savegames don't get static newgrfs
19:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> and shouldn't the rails get converted to electric automatically?
19:34:10 <frosch123> there is a disable elrail setting
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19:58:00 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's not enabled, as far as i can tell
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19:59:38 <TrueBrain> Zuu: NoGo 1.3 is being compiled now. Contains the new widget names and some 'extra' :D Only thing left to do: Tutorial-gui thingy, and you can make a nice tutorial script :D Although you already can do it for most part ;)
20:00:40 <TrueBrain> forgot the 'bump' patch, so 1.2 is broken beyond believe :P
20:01:21 <Zuu> okay, sure I did silly things with CluelessPlus 31 so I had to make 32 directly after. :-)
20:02:10 <TrueBrain> and please do try the translation stuff Rubidium mostly made available :D:D
20:02:18 <TrueBrain> as far as I can see, it works very very well, but .. I am biased :P
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20:06:35 <Alberth> TrueBrain: do as people do in the first forum posts: "reserved for future use" :)
20:07:01 <TrueBrain> I never understand those posts :P
20:07:51 <Eddi|zuHause> those are usually to work around the three-attachments-limit
20:07:54 <Zuu> If you have moderator powres I gues you can insert a post there if you need to post more than 3 files at the beginning :-)
20:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> you could instead just make a new post, and link to the attachments from the first post
20:09:14 <TrueBrain> I have no attachments ....
20:09:21 <TrueBrain> I dont know why Alberth said it (out of the blue for me :P)
20:10:21 * Alberth was thinking to claim 1.2 "for future use" :)
20:10:37 <Rubidium> yeah, openttd 1.2 ofcourse ;)
20:10:52 <TrueBrain> "veel verder gedacht dan ik" :D
20:11:04 <Zuu> Rubidium: So now OpenTTD 1.3 will be impossible?
20:12:49 <Zuu> Sounds interesting with translations transmitted over the network. @ NoGo 1.3
20:22:02 <Eddi|zuHause> we seriously need to improve nmlc's performance...
20:29:46 <Zuu> Hmm, when starting a new NoGo game with 1.3 I had it crash at first step in world generation. Will upload the crash.* files.
20:30:10 <Zuu> Or should I compile myself to have the debugger?
20:30:18 <Zuu> (I used the bananas binary)
20:31:42 <Zuu> It is possible that there is a bug in my code, as I only started OpenTTD after having done some coding myself.
20:34:52 <glx> then the pdb is available at the same place as you got the exe :)
20:36:17 <glx> on binaries.openttd.org custom/nogo/nogo-1.3
20:37:29 <Zuu> Yes. Though, I have always found it easier to compile + debug live than using the dump+pdb files.
20:38:05 <glx> dump+pdb is nice to get an idea of what failed
20:39:22 <appe> did anyone of you guys play E.V.O recently?
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21:24:05 <TrueBrain> Zuu: without a translation, GS crashes :D
21:24:17 <TrueBrain> I tested it on all changes, except the last :D
21:24:52 <TrueBrain> at least, that crashes here directly :P
21:24:57 <TrueBrain> haven't loaded your dmp yet
21:25:02 <TrueBrain> dunno if you have a backtrace?
21:27:56 <Zuu> I can create one if you wants that. (I only have to start OpenTTD and select a GS without translations)
21:28:15 <Zuu> After adding a lang directory and an empty english.txt it did not crash.
21:28:16 <TrueBrain> that backtrace I ahve :)
21:28:25 <TrueBrain> then that is the same ;)
21:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> now i almost certainly refactored it to death :p
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22:30:47 <Zuu> TrueBrain: In the docs only some of the Widget enums that show at the top are clickable. Those that aren't don't show up at the end. They also seem to not exist in OpenTTD.
22:30:52 <Zuu> At least this code did not work:
22:30:53 <Zuu> main_instance.AddStep(GUIHighlightStep(GSWindow.WC_MAIN_TOOLBAR, GSWindow.TBN_ROADS));
22:31:08 <Zuu> It complained that TBN_ROADS doesn't exist.
22:31:47 <TrueBrain> Zuu: check the naming
22:31:52 <TrueBrain> like I said, we changed the naming heavily
22:32:00 <TrueBrain> owh, I should update the docs I guess :D
22:32:42 <Zuu> I know that you have updated the naming, that's why I waited for 1.3, but aparently the docs was not updated yet :-)
22:33:04 <TrueBrain> Zuu: been kept busy by some devs with bugs and coding style :D
22:37:50 <TrueBrain> Zuu: 2 things just happened. 1) I did update the docs (sorry sorry sorry sorry)
22:37:53 <TrueBrain> 2) I released 1.4 :P
22:52:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23587 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen_base.cpp: -Fix-ish: MSVC warnings in case strgen would be in the main project file
22:54:02 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Why can I highlight the main toolbar using window = 0, but the event has window = 1?
22:58:00 <Zuu> It seems that I don't get events for non-highlighted buttons, so as long as I only highlight one, I should be safe to just ignore the window in the event.
22:58:36 <Zuu> Another thing is that after the user has clicked on the road toolbar button, it keeps flashing.
22:58:57 <Zuu> I don't know if the issue is related to the fact that it opens a menu.
22:59:24 <TrueBrain> by documentation, the event only triggers on highlights, yes
22:59:36 <Zuu> hmm, probably not, as the event is fired when you press down the mouse button.
22:59:38 <TrueBrain> flashing only stops if you tell it to :)
23:00:12 <Zuu> Or calling Highlight again?
23:00:13 <TrueBrain> highlight with color invalid
23:01:23 <TrueBrain> butI guess it would make sense to stop the highlight when you click on it
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23:02:55 <Zuu> No problem for me to do that in the event handler now that I know how to do it. :-)
23:03:08 <TrueBrain> it is documented ;)
23:03:18 <Zuu> I found it out now when you said so.
23:05:23 <Zuu> But you did get my point with Highlight(window, 0, widget, TC_YELLOW) and then in the event the window number is 1.
23:05:42 <Zuu> where in this case the window is the main toolbar and the button is the road button.
23:06:33 <TrueBrain> class / number / index, it should be correct
23:07:26 <TrueBrain> it you can give me a simple test GS, that would be very helpful
23:18:50 <Zuu> sorry, I just read the docs wrong. Didn't saw the GetWindowClass function of the event and though that the WindowNumber function was the window id/class.
23:19:36 <TrueBrain> why do I write documentation :P :P Hihi :)
23:19:42 <TrueBrain> how come you misread? The documentation unclear, or?
23:19:45 <Zuu> I did read it, just wrong :-)
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23:23:13 <Zuu> And probably because I've lately worked with another window/widget toolkit (wxWidgets) which doesn't have window "class" in the core.
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23:41:42 <Zuu> How does one know which window number to use? Is there a pattern or does a GS have to scann over 0 to n for a given window class to figure out which window number to use?
23:46:33 <Yexo> you'll have to read the source code
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