IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-17
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02:02:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23564 /trunk/src/ (pathfinder/yapf/yapf_rail.cpp pbs.cpp): -Fix [FS#4888]: Extending a path reservation starting at a partially reserved rail station could fail.
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08:38:52 <planetmaker> moin
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09:11:34 <fjb|tab> Moin
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09:49:36 <Cardiz> Hello.
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09:57:59 <Terkhen> good morning
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10:06:06 * dihedral honors the efforts of the last commits ;-)
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10:08:53 * peter1138 greebles dihedral
10:13:31 <dihedral> if it makes you feel better...
10:14:45 <peter1138> it does
10:15:13 <dihedral> interesting...
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10:31:26 <SpComb> Grepplers
10:31:57 <dihedral> i just have no idea what he's trying to communicate ...
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10:37:28 <__ln__> secret footage of peter driving out of a garage:
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10:38:36 <LordAro> good morning
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10:41:31 <planetmaker> moin LordAro
10:43:11 <LordAro> hi pm
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10:45:43 <appe>
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10:49:52 <fjb|tab> Moin LordAro.ä
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10:52:19 <Alberth> moin
10:53:15 <fjb|tab> Moin Alberth.
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11:10:23 <Wolf01> hello
11:10:24 <__ln__> hi Wolf01
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12:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "Adolf Hitler wants to change his name"
12:14:20 <__ln__> dunno if that can be done posthumously
12:15:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23565 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: create some classes for writing language header and translation files
12:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "21 year old Adolf Hitler Souza Mendes grew up in a brazilian village, where not many people knew the history of hitler, but got serious responses after his name was published in a list of candidates for the second round to applying to university"
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12:19:11 <__ln__> interesting choice for a name by his parents, in any case
12:19:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23566 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r23565): hopefully fix MSVC compilation error
12:25:15 <Cardiz> One American family named their son Osama Bin Laden.
12:25:24 <Cardiz> Then they got their parential rights removed.
12:27:08 <Eddi|zuHause> they should have named him Obama Bin Laden :p
12:27:17 <planetmaker> welcome to alt.misc.politics
12:28:37 <Rubidium> Cardiz: probably triggered by some right wing freedom preaching individual, right?
12:28:49 <Cardiz> I have no idea Rubidium.
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13:23:03 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23567 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: use SmallVector for the buffer in strgen
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13:33:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23568 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp table/strgen_tables.h): -Codechange: only allocate the buffer for writing when it is really needed
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13:59:01 <Zuu> TrueBrain: Did you yet update the widget IDs in your local nogo?
13:59:41 <Zuu> As far as I can see, you havn't pushed anything related to that yet.
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14:41:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23569 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: put more logic in some of the strgen structs, e.g. allocating and freeing its memory, and don't use a global variable for the string data
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14:50:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23570 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: move version generation code to StringData
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15:02:10 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23571 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: make the number of 'tabs' the generate configurable
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16:23:58 <swissfan91> hello everyone
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16:25:02 <planetmaker> hello swissfan91
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16:26:35 <swissfan91> how do I go about getting this extra-zoom dealy that I have seen screenshots recently?
16:26:48 <swissfan91> not 32bpp...
16:29:11 <planetmaker> grab a nightly and just zoom-in
16:30:15 <swissfan91> ah nightly is it? I grabbed the latest trunk..
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16:31:03 <planetmaker> well. what is 'lastest trunk' for you?
16:31:27 <Alberth> r23571 of course :p
16:31:44 <planetmaker> OpenTTD 1.1.4 is not trunk. But 'latest' stable. Currently
16:32:00 <planetmaker> Alberth: I'm terribly outdated, I think :-(
16:32:12 <swissfan91> ahhh, yes I meant 1.1.4
16:32:17 <swissfan91> ohhh the terminology:P
16:32:27 <planetmaker> I only have 23559...
16:32:49 <planetmaker> swissfan91: and that's why one should *never* say "I use latest ..."
16:33:02 <planetmaker> Always give the version. There is no latest. And if there is, it changes
16:33:22 <Alberth> swissfan91:
16:33:31 <swissfan91> ahhh yes, I remember have that droned into me before :P
16:34:29 <planetmaker> just use the versions. It also saves you the bear traps of using the wrong name
16:34:49 <planetmaker> and one will always have to ask anyway "what is your latest".
16:35:06 <swissfan91> indeed :)
16:35:16 <planetmaker> Especially as 'latest nightly' depends on the hour of the day it is said
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16:35:43 <Alberth> and latest trunk is even worse :)
16:36:02 <planetmaker> :-)
16:36:06 <planetmaker> Depends on the minute ;-)
16:36:07 <swissfan91> on a (partly) related note - andythenorth pointed me in the direction of looking at the original base set graphics, using an in-game sprite-look-at-it dealy. Is this the GRF on BANANAS?
16:36:52 <planetmaker> no. He means to make use of the newgrf developer tools used to help aligning / positioning sprites
16:37:15 <planetmaker>
16:37:53 <swissfan91> what is the use of 'BaseSets SpriteViewer' on BaNaNaS ?
16:38:06 <planetmaker> it has no use anymore
16:38:48 <planetmaker> it was useful to show single houses when there were no newgrf developer tools
16:38:59 <swissfan91> ah, ok
16:41:25 <planetmaker> <-- you can also look at single base sprites there
16:43:12 <swissfan91> but the only way to find the original TTD gfx is through Debugging?
16:43:50 <Alberth> huh? you get those by buying the original TTDX CD
16:44:07 <swissfan91> no, I have them :) I mean, to look at the sprites.
16:44:56 <Alberth> oh, you can run the files through grfcodec or through grf2html (latter is more useful for inspection)
16:45:44 <Alberth> although it may be easier to use opengfx instead
16:46:05 <Alberth> they are the same set of sprites, and the latter is in source form, and has a gpl license
16:46:34 <swissfan91> its only because I was drawing some roof rafters, and andythenorth said that a house in the original gfx had some I should look at.
16:47:13 <planetmaker> swissfan91: you can just start a game and look at that house... or you use the last link I quoted
16:47:27 <Alberth> if he means in-game, take a screenshot and load that in a bitmap editor
16:47:28 <planetmaker> it gives you opengfx, ttd and 32bpp-ez sprites of the selected sprites
16:47:34 <planetmaker> edit the link accordingly
16:48:47 <Alberth> nice link :)
16:49:35 <swissfan91> change the 'opengfx' part of the link to 'ttd'?
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16:51:39 <planetmaker> no. Edit the spritenumbers
16:54:16 <swissfan91> blimey - just makes you realise HOW many sprites are involved
16:55:31 <swissfan91> surely irrespective of the sprite number I change to, they're all opengfx?
16:56:20 <planetmaker> no
16:56:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23572 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange: split actual file reading from logic for parsing
16:56:43 <planetmaker> 17:47 planetmaker: it gives you opengfx, ttd and 32bpp-ez sprites of the selected sprites
16:59:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23573 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r23571): MSVC doesn't like variable array sizes
16:59:25 <swissfan91> swissfan91 change the 'opengfx' part of the link to 'ttd'? 16:50 16:51 planetmaker no. Edit the spritenumbers
17:00:01 <swissfan91> sorry I'll concentrate now.. Torquay have lost :(
17:03:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23574 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Codechange/Feature-ish: allow converting multiple translations with the same master language instance in a single strgen run
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17:25:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23575 /trunk/ ( src/strgen/strgen.cpp src/strgen/strgen.h): -Codechange: split class definition and implementation of base strgen classes
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18:33:44 <Cardiz> So quiet.
18:34:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23576 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: split the base of strgen with the strgen code that creates the actual .lng files
18:37:12 <Terkhen> yup
18:39:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23577 /trunk/projects/ (4 files): -Fix (r23576): strgen project files aren't automatically updated :(
18:40:26 <frosch123> hmm, second time today firefox completely screwed up...
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18:45:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23578 /trunk/src/lang/ (turkish.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:45:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: turkish - 5 changes by niw3
18:45:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 300 changes by haider
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18:46:49 <Cardiz> Oh hell.
18:46:55 <Cardiz> What the hell is "urdu"?
18:47:12 <__ln__> a language.
18:47:24 <Cardiz> First time I hear about a language named "urdu"
18:47:38 <Rubidium> wikipedia will tell you
18:47:40 <__ln__> I'd say that's more your than the language's fault.
18:47:43 <Rubidium> but yes, it's a language
18:48:10 <Cardiz> It's not mine's or languages fault.
18:48:22 <Cardiz> I am just telling you that I hear a language called "urdu" for the first time.
18:48:59 <planetmaker> hm, whose fault is it that you haven't heart of something?
18:49:14 <Cardiz> God's.
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18:51:54 * Alberth didn't know that a geography teacher was god
18:53:27 <macee> Hello to all.
18:53:54 <Chris_Booth> macee!
18:54:04 <Alberth> hello
18:54:30 <frosch123> Cardiz: it's the fourth most spoken language or so
18:54:36 <macee> I have a question: when i cheat back in time, the financial window doesn't show anything. Is it a bug, or just a side effect of the cheat?
18:55:10 <Chris_Booth> hhhm let me guess it goes mandarin, spanish, english urdu?
18:55:28 <frosch123> switch english and spanish, then you match wikipedia :)
18:55:40 <Chris_Booth> not far out then
18:56:03 <frosch123> though it depends if you take the pure urdu (which is only spoken by some), or the more general hindu-urdu
18:56:15 <frosch123> * hindi-urdu
18:56:32 <Chris_Booth> yes, it also depends if you take into account 2nd language and native speakers
18:57:01 <Chris_Booth> since I would guess iff you had total speakers english may be top, followed by mandarin
18:57:17 <Chris_Booth> but I would again guess wiki list native speakers only
18:57:56 <frosch123> wiki lists whatever they can quote from some questionable source :p
18:58:34 <Chris_Booth> XD XD XD
18:59:05 <Chris_Booth> frosch123: you could edit the wiki to make chinglish the number 1 language
18:59:32 <Chris_Booth> and cite your own website as the source of the data
19:01:41 <frosch123> no, my website won't work. however if i print a letter in some local newspaper or if i write a book ...
19:06:07 <Chris_Booth> lol
19:06:37 <Chris_Booth> publish it in a news corp paper, they will print any old crap
19:08:12 <Alberth> macee: it doesn't store the data, but what should it display? cumulative data for that year is wrong too.
19:08:30 <Chris_Booth> or new international, depending on what you call rupert murdocs new in your country
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19:20:03 <macee> Alberth: I didn't think it all the way to what it should show, I just never noticed it before, and was curious why it is.
19:21:26 <Alberth> oke :)
19:23:10 <macee> I usually don't use cheats, but after several tries I finally found a map with which I was satisfied, and than I realised that I didn't set the date right:(
19:23:50 <macee> Thought I should ask if it is a bug or just a side effect, and now I know:)
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20:18:31 <Cardiz> I wish I could bribe UFO in multiplayer games so they would land on someone's railroad network that took him lots of time to make and let the jet destroy everything.
20:37:17 <__ln__>
20:45:30 <Cardiz> What is this?
20:46:11 <Alberth> a pseudo-random URL?
20:46:24 <__ln__> Live coding, I suppose. By Notch.
20:46:40 <Cardiz> But isn't that out of topic?
20:47:46 <Alberth> oh, we are often off-topic here :)
20:47:49 <__ln__> I avoid being on-topic.
20:48:07 <Terkhen> live coding? wow, that must be boring to watch
20:49:58 <Cardiz> It is not.
20:50:14 <Cardiz> It's exciting to see lots of code pieces glued together and see them working.
20:51:41 <__ln__> he's actually writing really ugly code.
20:52:08 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23579 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Fix (r23525): Most up/down arrows stopped working.
20:59:25 <Terkhen> it's more exciting to write code yourself :)
21:04:24 <Alberth> but you have to actually think yourself then :p
21:05:20 <__ln__> not necessarily, you can simply try things the brute force way until something works the way you want
21:05:45 <planetmaker> the monkey way to write a poem?
21:07:49 <__ln__> something like that, but if brute-forcing with syntactically correct, compilable pieces of code, it takes less time.
21:20:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23580 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: put the infrastructure maintenance cache testing behind the desync debug level guard, improving the game's speed significantly
21:22:11 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23581 /trunk/src/vehicle_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23518) [FS#4890]: Cloning of vehicles crashed.
21:23:51 <Alberth> planetmaker: where to leave these to request some snow powder coating?
21:25:29 <planetmaker> he, that's both difficult as it can neither be done within a base set nor NewGRF
21:25:48 <planetmaker> Can I assign that base set or NewGRF Spec extension to you? :-P
21:25:54 <frosch123> i think for the transmitter there is some patch on fs
21:25:57 <frosch123> from 2008 or so
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21:27:14 <planetmaker> hm, NewObjects need a property "place on game start". And an override for transmitter and lighthouse like airports
21:27:52 <Alberth> sure you can assign that to me, not sure if that helps a lot though ;)
21:27:59 <planetmaker> :-)
21:28:25 <planetmaker> Alberth: we have one issue category for that in the OpenGFX tracker: type 'OpenTTD' :-)
21:29:44 <planetmaker> like though I just wonder whether I can close that already
21:30:06 <frosch123> planetmaker: is it a problem of swedish rails if i do not see pbs reservations on bridges?
21:30:18 <frosch123> or of ottd? :p
21:30:28 <frosch123> (i want to play :( )
21:30:36 <planetmaker> hm, that I don't know by heart
21:30:49 <planetmaker> I'll find out :-). You play :-P
21:31:14 <frosch123> :)
21:31:46 <Cardiz> I imagine coding with brute force as trying to make a hybrid of an elephant and mice.
21:31:48 <Cardiz> Not sure why.
21:33:04 <planetmaker> with default rail I see pbs reservation only on bridge ramps
21:33:17 <frosch123> yes, that's what i expected
21:33:36 <frosch123> but currently i do not see even those
21:34:01 <planetmaker> then it must be an SER bug
21:34:04 <planetmaker> let's see
21:34:15 <frosch123> or of newrails with overlays :)
21:34:26 <frosch123> ottd draws them different than default rail
21:34:40 <planetmaker> that's easy to test...
21:38:03 <Alberth> I don't have it
21:38:48 <frosch123> Alberth: i am currently playing with ser as well :)
21:40:13 <planetmaker> I didn't find reserved bridge ramps neither with UK Railway Set (Narrow Gauge) and SMITS
21:42:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23582 /trunk/ (10 files in 4 dirs):
21:42:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4870]: add missing characters for certain languages and the large font
21:42:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Codechange: don't remove large font glyphs because they are broken in the original font, just fix them up in openttd.grf using action A
21:42:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Change: make extra characters more consistent with the original font
21:42:13 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: All by PaulC.
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21:52:15 <Cardiz> What a way to stop a flame war.
21:52:29 <Cardiz> 2 people were arguing about what country is the best place to live.
21:52:58 <Cardiz> After over 20 comments of them including insults, the third one popped out of nowhere and said "Shut the fuck up everyone, Australia is the place to be"
21:53:01 <Cardiz> And end.
21:53:18 <Prof_Frink> Apart from one thing.
21:53:23 <Cardiz> Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that they were arguing if america is better or china.
21:53:25 <Prof_Frink> It's full of Autralians.
21:54:29 <fjb|tab> That is easy to solve soon. China is gradually buying the USA.
21:55:51 <Cardiz> Soon there will be war.
21:55:58 <Xaroth> and everything is upside down in Australia...
21:56:11 <Cardiz> No no, it's in Soviet russia.
21:58:09 * fjb|tab likes to live in a country without death penaklty. So China and the USA are both ruled out.
21:58:27 <Cardiz> Death punishment should be everywhere.
22:00:23 <planetmaker> yes, for all who don't agree with me
22:00:42 <planetmaker> for once, I think no death penalty is a good thing
22:00:48 <planetmaker> how to resolve this paradoxon?
22:01:04 <planetmaker> please discuss in alt.misc.politics ;-)
22:01:09 <Rubidium> so they're punished by letting them suffer less long?!?
22:01:54 <Rubidium> or being in jail is something that is preferred above not being in jail
22:02:10 <Rubidium> then the US is definitely the best country to be
22:02:15 <fjb|tab> Eliminate everyone who does not agre with you. Then rhere is no need for the death penalty any more. Easily solved.
22:02:54 <Rubidium> ofcourse US jails are not much more than legal slave farms
22:04:14 <Alberth> good night all
22:04:32 <Cardiz> I see I offended you with my suggestion to have death punishment.
22:04:35 <Cardiz> I apologize.
22:04:46 <fjb|tab> God night Alberth.
22:04:58 *** Alberth has left #openttd
22:05:01 <Cardiz> But no, seriously, killing prisoners that did enough to die is a good thing.
22:05:32 <Cardiz> It means taxes don't go to take care of prisoners.
22:05:33 <planetmaker> killing a person on purpose is murder
22:05:39 <Terkhen> ^
22:05:41 <Terkhen> good night
22:05:46 <planetmaker> 1st degree murder in US speak
22:05:50 <Cardiz> Of course it is.
22:05:52 * fjb|tab wonders why? To make room for new prisoners?
22:06:04 <planetmaker> would also be good. then the person in favour would need all be killed
22:06:23 <frosch123> yay, no overpopulation
22:06:36 <Cardiz> Citizens obviously would feel safer if a serial psychopatic murderer would be executed, right?
22:06:45 <fjb|tab> No.
22:06:46 <planetmaker> incorrect
22:07:07 <Cardiz> Why incorrect?
22:07:34 <planetmaker> why would I feel safer if *someone* ran around and issues death sentences?
22:07:43 <Cardiz> Maybe because you are innocent?
22:07:43 * Rubidium proposes killing some thousands of American soldiers because they killed people in Iraq for absolutely no reason
22:08:15 <fjb|tab> Nobody is innocent.
22:08:18 <planetmaker> Cardiz: says who?
22:08:33 <Cardiz> But well, maybe you feel safer with the fact that lots of countries own nuclear weaponry.
22:08:45 <fjb|tab> No
22:08:52 <planetmaker> Killing one innocent person is absolutely inacceptable. Humans err. Thus death penalty is unacceptable
22:09:04 <fjb|tab> Right.
22:09:35 <Cardiz> Like Joseph Stalin said: One dead man is a strategy, thousands of people dead is just the statistic.
22:09:42 <Cardiz> Trategy
22:09:50 <Cardiz> God, I cannot type words right.
22:09:57 <Rubidium> so 9-11 was just statistics
22:10:01 <planetmaker> ^^
22:10:05 <Cardiz> Yes it was.
22:10:17 <fjb|tab> Killing pople doesn't make me feel save.
22:10:32 <Cardiz> Depends on the point of the seat.
22:10:39 <Cardiz> For family it's a trategy.
22:10:45 <Cardiz> For president is nothing
22:10:55 <planetmaker> Nor does the death penalty show that it makes the country safer. Crime statistics actually tell otherwise
22:11:14 <fjb|tab> Your seat can be on the electric chair unexpectedly soon.
22:11:14 <Rubidium> also... the number of deaths due to psychotic serial killers is significantly less than those due to people not paying attention during driving
22:11:20 <Cardiz> Death punishment would make criminals afraid too.
22:11:29 <Cardiz> Because right now for example in America
22:11:31 <planetmaker> Cardiz: that's where you err
22:11:33 <Cardiz> Someone buys legally a gun
22:11:35 <Rubidium> so if you really want to feel safer, just disallow anything distracting while driving
22:11:38 <Cardiz> Kills 10 people
22:11:41 <planetmaker> No crime is comitted less because of death penalty
22:11:46 <Cardiz> Goes to jail for lifetime and starts shit in prison
22:12:00 <Cardiz> Thus making the country waste money to fix the shit he broke.
22:12:07 <planetmaker> People in jail work
22:12:30 <planetmaker> If I kill them they can't work for the compensation
22:12:33 <fjb|tab> Nobody is afraid of the deathpenalty because everybody thinks he is clever enough to not be cought.
22:12:39 <planetmaker> If I kill them they can never regret
22:12:40 <Rubidium> Cardiz: the death penalty works so good in the US that it has much more gun related deaths (relatively and absolutely) than any civilised country without the death penalty
22:12:46 <frosch123> Rubidium: yeah, women should wear burqas
22:12:48 <planetmaker> If I kill them I might err and be a mean killer
22:12:56 <fjb|tab> Or he doesn't think at al while commiting murder.
22:13:01 <Cardiz> Lets just kill everybody for any crime.
22:13:03 <planetmaker> If I kill them I might extinct a valuable person
22:13:13 <Cardiz> Even children.
22:13:34 <planetmaker> I happily pay taxes. Also for the prisons
22:13:53 <planetmaker> It's a better punishment to imprison one for life than just shoot people
22:14:19 <fjb|tab> Every crime.. Downloading music without paying is a crime...
22:14:28 <Cardiz> Everything is a crime.
22:14:30 <frosch123> planetmaker: sending all prisoners for holidays on mallorca is cheaper :p
22:14:31 <Cardiz> Lets kill everybody.
22:14:39 <Cardiz> Why not engage nuclear missiles already and bomb every country
22:14:51 <planetmaker> start at your home, please
22:14:51 <Cardiz> Because nobody is innocent
22:14:58 <fjb|tab> That would be no fun.
22:15:00 <frosch123> anyway, i bet someone is banned from the channel in the next 10 minutes
22:15:27 <frosch123> TrueBrain: are you available?
22:15:55 <Rubidium> Cardiz: you are aware that a death penalty is more costly than life in prison without parole, right?
22:16:09 <fjb|tab> Instead of thinking about killing people better get a girl and make new people.
22:16:26 <Cardiz> Rubidium, I know that lifetime prison is worse for criminals.
22:16:34 <planetmaker> also cheaper for you
22:16:43 <Cardiz> You still waste money for criminals.
22:16:56 <Cardiz> But it depends in what situation you are.
22:16:59 <planetmaker> you waste more, if you kill them
22:17:16 <Cardiz> For example if a criminal would murder a member of your family, you would want him dead too.
22:17:17 <planetmaker> and "the situation" doesn't change that
22:17:28 <planetmaker> Cardiz: that is so wrong as it could be
22:17:41 <planetmaker> I would not want that.
22:18:43 *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
22:18:47 <planetmaker> humanism is a cultural thing. Eye for eye is like stone age
22:19:06 <Cardiz> Murdering thousands of innocent people in Iraq is humanitary too
22:19:17 <Rubidium> abolishing the death penalty in California will save 170 million dollars a year according to Judge Arthur L. Alarcon; since 1978 California has spent 4 billion on death penalty cases, with a whopping 13 executions
22:19:59 <Cardiz> Bombing Hiroshima was humanitary too
22:20:06 <planetmaker> Cardiz: you're absolutely cynical and inhumae
22:20:59 <planetmaker> and your 'comparisons' are unacceptable
22:21:17 <Cardiz> Ah come on.
22:21:24 <planetmaker> nor do they illustrate any point.
22:21:50 <Cardiz> Executing one person is more inhumane than murdering 166 thousands of people with an atomic bomb
22:21:58 <planetmaker> except your own very limited ability to communicate your opinion or rather finding any reason for their support
22:22:22 <Cardiz> Because who cares about bestially murdering animals
22:22:30 <planetmaker> @kban Cardiz
22:22:30 *** DorpsGek sets mode: +b *!
22:22:31 *** Cardiz was kicked by DorpsGek (planetmaker)
22:22:57 <fjb|tab> Thank you.
22:23:27 <planetmaker> What distinguishes us from animals is humanism
22:24:26 <fjb|tab> Some people don't show any hint of humanism. But they are stil humsns. Such people make me sad.
22:24:39 <planetmaker> me, too
22:24:39 <frosch123> 8 minutes
22:24:43 <planetmaker> :-D
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22:26:09 * Rubidium always wonders why people go completely nutters about somebody killing a few persons but are totally uninterested in solving issues that kill many more persons
22:26:54 <planetmaker> it's something about the randomness and the 'reason'
22:26:59 <frosch123> because they like solving problems they know a solution for?
22:27:36 <Rubidium> they like solving problems they won't have to face the solution for
22:27:53 <fjb|tab> We tend to overlook problems which are to big to handle for one person.
22:28:19 <Rubidium> e.g. ban smoking, ban calling/texting/... when driving (even when using a car kit)
22:29:08 <Rubidium> that'll make much more of an impact than focussing on the few psychotic persons that kill people
22:29:38 <Rubidium> but politicians have no balls to go for it
22:30:25 <fjb|tab> They would need to change parts of the society they don't want to touch.
22:30:50 <frosch123> i would actually expect smoking to be banned from germany within the next 20 years
22:31:09 <supermop> they would need to tell the people that vote for them that they are wrong
22:31:30 <supermop> with a shooter, everyone can say 'thats not me'
22:31:35 <fjb|tab> Smoking outdoors is ok. But smoking indoors is a real problem.
22:31:44 <frosch123> passive smoking is about to be considered assaulting
22:32:18 <supermop> but with say, texting, many people think 'sometimes i do that, but it must be ok if i do it'
22:32:46 <Rubidium> fjb|tab: I tend to disagree with that... as smoking 'outside' usually means smoking at the entrance of buildings
22:32:50 <fjb|tab> My ex girlfriend was smoking much. Her daughters had real difficulties to breath sometimes. But she didn't care. :-(
22:32:52 <Rubidium> which means I still have to go through it
22:33:26 <fjb|tab> Rubidium: ok, outside away from the entrances.
22:33:37 <planetmaker> Rubidium: one can hold a breath for that short time (yes, I sometimes do)
22:33:48 <planetmaker> but if it's inside... it's unavoidable and soon unbearable
22:33:49 <frosch123> [23:31] <supermop> they would need to tell the people that vote for them that they are wrong <- you can easily circumvent that by direct democracy, i.e. a referendum
22:33:49 <supermop> many US states with smoking bans ban it 25 or even 100 feet from the entrance
22:34:32 <planetmaker> i.e. I'm quite happy that I can go to a pub and not have to throw away all clothes and remove the soot from my lungs
22:34:39 <supermop> frosch123: but what happens when 51% of the people who want to vote still want to smoke...
22:34:40 <Rubidium> also people entering a bus usually inhale deeply and then blow their smoke through the whole bus
22:34:50 <frosch123> when i entered the voting room for the referendum about smoking in restaurants here, i only saw families with children participating :p
22:34:57 <supermop> heh
22:35:07 <supermop> its the same in the states that have banned it here
22:35:09 <supermop> but
22:35:09 <frosch123> so the result of the voting was no surprise :p
22:35:19 <supermop> in the states where it hasnt been banned
22:35:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd generally vote against smoking...
22:35:29 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23583 /trunk/src/error_gui.cpp: -Codechange: prevent name collision with strgen variable
22:35:42 <supermop> those are places where smoking is still more popular, namely where tobacco is grown
22:35:52 <frosch123> supermop: i am quite sure, that a lot more who do not smoke participate in such votings
22:35:54 <fjb|tab> My actual girlfriend and I didn't find a pub without smoking in a nearby smal town last autumn. :-(
22:36:31 <planetmaker> woot?
22:36:35 <frosch123> and a lot of smokers even feel guilty and do not dare to go to the voting
22:36:54 <supermop> ive lived in states with smoking bans for a long time now, so i am always suprised when i travel to a state without one
22:37:05 <supermop> i am not used to smelling smoke anywhere anymore
22:38:02 <Eddi|zuHause> <Cardiz> It means taxes don't go to take care of prisoners. <-- that argument btw. is totally rubbish...
22:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> statistics show that a trial with possibility of death penalty costs on average 10 times more than a trial without (for the same crime)
22:38:45 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: rb already said that
22:38:56 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's of course the time between trial and execution
22:39:34 <Eddi|zuHause> which also may be several decades
22:39:38 <__ln__> i guess that'll be solved when china buys the rest of US, and chinese practices of trial and execution can be embraced.
22:39:44 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: or to quote hallervorden again: cheapest is sending them on vacation to mallorca
22:43:28 <Eddi|zuHause> fjb|tab: you know that "actual" != "aktuell", right?
22:45:44 <fjb|tab> Eddi|zuHause: I know, didn't think about the word current. But what is wrong with actual?
22:45:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "actual" means "real"
22:46:09 <Eddi|zuHause> as in "actually existing"
22:46:41 <Eddi|zuHause> as if you were to say "not an imaginary girlfriend"
22:47:43 <fjb|tab> She is realy real, as far as I know. :-p
22:47:57 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you actually know? :p
22:48:20 <Eddi|zuHause> how do you know _you_ are real? :)
22:48:30 <fjb|tab> The problem is to know what reality is.
22:48:52 <fjb|tab> Eddi|zuHause: I don't know.
22:50:08 <fjb|tab> If I would be virtual, would my girlfriend also have to be virtual to be real?
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22:52:11 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on if you use your own reality as reference point
22:52:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which kinda defeats the point :)
22:52:58 <planetmaker> reality is nothing else than averaged perception of the world ;-)
22:53:22 <fjb|tab> Whose reality can we use when not our own?
22:53:29 <planetmaker> no, the tree doesn't fall, if no-one watches ;-)
22:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> the tree is in a quantum state until someone watches
22:54:38 <fjb|tab> The tree doesn't fall, the eatth falls.
22:54:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the train is not moving. the station is moving underneath the train
22:56:12 <frosch123> [23:53] <fjb|tab> Whose reality can we use when not our own? <- the one in ottd?
22:59:52 <fjb|tab> frosch123: That one is made like our own.
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23:03:32 <__ln__> 00:53 < fjb|tab> Whose reality can we use when not our own? <-- mine
23:04:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: pbs highlight does indeed not work for tunnels and bridges with railtype overlays
23:04:41 <frosch123> in the tunnel case the highlight is drawn before the actual track
23:04:52 <planetmaker> he
23:04:56 <frosch123> in the bridge case it is not drawn at all for some reason
23:05:00 <fjb|tab> __ln__: I can not use yours. Yours is Finnish.
23:05:17 <frosch123> there is a big comment in the bridge case, but i am not sure whether it is about the pbs case, or something else :p
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23:14:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23584 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Draw PBS reservations also for tunnels with railtype overlays.
23:16:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23585 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with less magic constants
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23:22:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23586 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Draw PBS reservation also for bridges with railtype overlays.
23:22:44 <frosch123> For some reason the bridge reservations look kind of dark with ser
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23:32:18 <planetmaker> hm... dunno yet why. First some sleep though. Good night
23:33:17 <fjb|tab> Good night planetmaker.
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23:35:04 <DemeGeek> I am getting the error message "Error: Failed to find a graphics set. Please acquire a graphics set for OpenTTD. See section 4.1 of readme.txt." when I try to run openTTD as a dedicated server over SSH on a debian install. I have tried doing what it said and extracted opengfx into the /data/ folder but it still does not work. Can anyone help me with this?
23:35:41 <frosch123> what folder exactly?
23:36:11 <DemeGeek> It is installed into /usr/share/games/openttd/ if that is what you mean
23:36:38 <frosch123> isn't openttd-opengfx even a debian package?
23:36:52 <DemeGeek> No that I could find
23:36:56 <DemeGeek> only tar.gz
23:37:17 <frosch123> i mean in your package manager
23:37:35 <frosch123> i have it on squeeze
23:37:48 <DemeGeek> I don't know how to access package manager through terminal
23:38:06 <DemeGeek> and I have never used desktop Debian
23:39:11 <frosch123> /usr/share/games/openttd/data should work though
23:39:30 <frosch123> put the .tar directly there
23:39:40 <frosch123> no .gz, but also not untarred
23:39:48 <DemeGeek> oh dpkg, sorry I didn't know the name of that command.
23:40:01 <DemeGeek> so I should not extract?
23:40:15 <frosch123> only gunzip, but not tar -x
23:41:12 <DemeGeek> I got the openttd-opengfx package you pointed me to
23:41:16 <DemeGeek> and now it works!
23:41:20 <DemeGeek> Thank you
23:41:37 <frosch123> you're welcome :)
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23:51:58 <Joshu145> hey
23:52:10 <Joshu145> How's it going?
23:52:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that way -->
23:53:19 <Joshu145> ?
23:54:11 <fjb|tab> Eddi|zuHause: The question was how, not where.
23:54:16 <Joshu145> Where should i look if i want to find a team of mod developers to help with an idea i have
23:54:29 <Joshu145> i meant how are you?
23:54:31 <Joshu145> haha
23:54:34 <Joshu145> smartass
23:55:07 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry. not my native language.
23:55:17 <Joshu145> oh
23:55:53 <fjb|tab> Eddi|zuHause: You should have sent him to the ministery of silly walks.
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23:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what you mean by that, but it'd sound better if it were a monastery :)
23:57:49 <frosch123> it's some monthy python thingie
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23:58:08 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i must have missed that
23:58:19 <frosch123> i am sure you can find it on yt
23:59:03 <Eddi|zuHause> yt is not compatible with my internets
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