IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-09
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01:56:22 <RetiredNavyVet> any idea why I can't pick up fruit (v1.1.4) with a refrigerated train car?
01:56:45 <Eddi|zuHause> you refitted it to fruit?
01:57:07 <RetiredNavyVet> its description say it can carry fruit...still need to refit?
01:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> depends on the vehicle set
01:57:46 <RetiredNavyVet> hmmmm, ok. I'll check, may have misread the info
01:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> click on the vehicle and there on vehicle details
01:58:20 <Eddi|zuHause> there you can see what the vehicle is actually carrying
01:58:47 <RetiredNavyVet> ahhhh, it, ty!
01:59:06 <RetiredNavyVet> RTFM!
02:00:24 <RetiredNavyVet> lol, now I know why I couldn't pick up wood earlier today too
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07:14:49 <appe> morning people
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07:35:00 <planetmaker> moin
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08:00:34 <Lachie> I'm getting a syntax error 'unexpected token ":". I assume it's talking about the colon in name: blah of the line it's complaining about. Any reason why it would do this?
08:01:37 <Lachie> (in NML, derp)
08:10:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r23454 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Change: Mark company window dirty when moving a rail engine creates or deletes a train.
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08:23:14 <peter1138>
08:23:17 <peter1138> oops?
08:26:56 <planetmaker> :-D
08:27:00 <planetmaker> Seems something failed
08:27:26 <planetmaker> Lachie: it would need the code to see why
08:27:32 <Noldo> oh, that's why they shut them down on high winds
08:27:41 <planetmaker> maybe missing semicolon in the previous line?
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08:28:12 <peter1138> Noldo, yeah
08:29:39 <planetmaker> Mostly, I'd assume they have a max. rotation speed due to mechanical wear / material strength
08:29:56 <planetmaker> it's pointless and not helpful if the blade tips rotate supersonic
08:31:42 <Lachie> planetmaker: just the specific line in question?
08:31:54 <peter1138> previous lines
08:32:10 <peter1138> i'm guessing whatever mechanism stops it failed
08:32:33 <Lachie> nevermind, it was a mistake on my half. I forgot to add the "property" bit
08:32:44 <peter1138>
08:32:51 <peter1138> ^ mind you, that won't help either, heh
08:32:55 <Lachie> so it just went item (blah, blah) { name:
08:35:44 <planetmaker> the whole block I'd say.
08:35:51 <planetmaker> NML is written in block
08:35:52 <planetmaker> s
08:36:21 <planetmaker> ah, nvm
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08:40:45 <Lachie> yeah, I'm a slow learner.
08:41:03 <Lachie> it also doesn't want to accept a t in one "weight" property, but is fine with all the others
08:41:25 <planetmaker> it doesn't accept them in callbacks iirc
08:41:29 <planetmaker> not yet
08:41:33 <planetmaker> only in property blocks
08:43:29 <Lachie> 'tis a property block
08:44:02 <planetmaker> no quoted code, no idea, I'm afraid
08:44:42 <planetmaker> no offence, but it's probably something stupid. These things usually take the longest to see. You're not alone there :-)
08:45:02 <Lachie> power: 500hp; weight: 60t; engine_class: ENGINE_CLASS_STEAM;
08:45:18 <Lachie> would have been nice for some line breaks. Thanks, NotePad++
08:45:29 <planetmaker> there are paste services...
08:45:35 <Lachie> touche.
08:45:51 <Lachie> I'm in the midst of cooking dinner, so I'll leave it til I'm back.
08:46:32 <planetmaker> <-- tells you the unit is ton or tons. Not t
08:47:38 <Lachie> ah. it's weird that it only picked up that one then, and not in the other property blocks. will get on to that one shortly.
08:48:07 <planetmaker> it complains about the first found
08:50:00 <Lachie> and it's just occured to me that ofcourse it didn't pick up the other mentions, they were all commented out. I should probably just go back to bed today.
08:55:19 <planetmaker> in that case: sweet dreams :-)
08:59:36 <planetmaker> hm... they yesterday stopped a truck driver on the highway that drunk that he could barely stand and that drunk incapable to make an alcohol test...
09:00:33 <planetmaker> still, no-one was hurt, no accident caused. By sheer luck
09:09:49 <SpComb> or mad truck driver skillz :)
09:09:55 <SpComb> they probably have a lot of practice
09:11:23 <planetmaker> he had two empty schnaps bottles in the cabin ;-)
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09:38:31 <peter1138> general protection fault: 0000 [#1] SMP
09:38:38 <peter1138> not seen a GPF for a long time...
09:38:53 <planetmaker> err, what?
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09:39:18 <Cornelian> Hello, anyone?
09:39:24 <planetmaker> good when you can complain to someone else then, peter1138 ;-)
09:39:27 <planetmaker> hi Cornelian
09:39:47 <Cornelian> Is it possible that you can help me with a prolbem i've been having in OpenTTD
09:40:18 <peter1138> planetmaker, complain? :p
09:40:23 <planetmaker> possible. But such questions can only be answered when the nature of the problem is known
09:40:32 <planetmaker> i.e.: don't ask to to ask. Just ask
09:40:43 <planetmaker> @topic get -3
09:40:43 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Don't ask to ask, just ask
09:40:57 <Alberth> even DorpsGek agrees :)
09:41:02 <planetmaker> :-)
09:41:06 <Cornelian> Allright :) I simply can't choose the load if available option in my transports
09:41:08 <planetmaker> it's in the topic for a reason
09:41:20 <peter1138> you can
09:41:22 <planetmaker> that's the default
09:41:23 <peter1138> it's the default
09:41:40 <Cornelian> well... my default is full load
09:41:56 <Cornelian> when i try to pick the first it deselects...
09:41:56 <planetmaker> then disable the 'full load' and you have 'if available'
09:42:23 <Cornelian> That's what i try, but it just turn off picking up anything
09:42:39 <Alberth> that's 'no loading'
09:42:50 <Cornelian> Yes exactly
09:43:23 <planetmaker> <-- have you read?
09:43:36 <Cornelian> Oh yes
09:43:48 <Cornelian> I've been all around the wiki ;)
09:45:53 <planetmaker> well. On stations you always have those 4 options available as loading.
09:46:02 <Cornelian> Yes
09:46:02 <planetmaker>
09:46:13 <Cornelian> i can select all of them, except the top one
09:46:28 <Cornelian> if i do, it disables loading
09:46:40 <planetmaker> what does "disable loading" mean?
09:46:45 <Cornelian> It
09:46:57 <planetmaker> with "available" it means that the train goes to the station, picks up what is wating, and then leaves
09:47:04 <planetmaker> if there's nothing waiting, it won't load
09:47:06 <Cornelian> Yes, i can do that
09:47:12 <Cornelian> can't*
09:47:43 <Alberth> <-- order 1 is load if available, 2 is full load
09:48:01 <Cornelian> Yes, now click the drop down
09:48:06 <planetmaker> can't do what exaclty? That entry surely is available in the load order drop down list?
09:48:10 <Cornelian> click load if availbe
09:48:17 <planetmaker> and then you're done
09:48:26 <Cornelian> No, because it doesn't do that
09:48:45 <planetmaker> oh, it does. But does your train allow to carry the cargo you want to carry?
09:48:55 <Cornelian> I'll illustrate just a sec
09:49:01 <planetmaker> i.e. are the wagons equipped to carry what yo uwant to pickup?
09:49:36 <planetmaker> please include info on cargo-to-carry and cargo capacity of vehicle :-)
09:49:55 <Cornelian> A bus for example, picking up passengers
09:49:59 <planetmaker> yup
09:50:10 <Cornelian> It will wait untill it has a full load or 100%
09:50:21 <planetmaker> 100% = full load
09:50:29 <Cornelian> yes
09:50:31 <Alberth> you mean it also picks up passengers arriving while you load?
09:50:33 <Cornelian> Then it will leave the station. This takes forever
09:50:34 <planetmaker> "if available" can mean anything between 0 and 100%
09:50:40 <Cornelian> I know
09:50:45 <Cornelian> That's what i want it to do
09:50:56 <Cornelian> But the option doesn't work
09:51:03 <planetmaker> can you provide a savegame where I can see that behaviour?
09:51:06 <Alberth> what version?
09:51:18 <Cornelian> 1.1.4
09:51:24 <Cornelian> this is what happens
09:51:32 <Cornelian> It's in danish, but it's the same order
09:51:56 <planetmaker> I don't see anything there?
09:51:58 <Alberth> it's empty
09:52:02 <Cornelian> Oh crap..
09:52:27 <planetmaker> use imagebin
09:53:23 <Cornelian>
09:53:25 <Cornelian> There
09:53:38 <planetmaker> yes. and?
09:53:43 <planetmaker> looks to me like it's working
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09:53:56 <planetmaker> it doesn't say in the orders above "if available"
09:53:59 <planetmaker> but that's normal
09:54:02 <planetmaker> as it's default
09:54:18 <Cornelian> are you saying, if nothing is selected
09:54:26 <planetmaker> if it says nothing else it's always "unload and load if available"
09:54:26 <Alberth> the line with the order is what you should look at, not at the button
09:54:30 <Cornelian> it will pick up if available
09:54:41 <Cornelian> Oh. My. God
09:54:44 <planetmaker> "unload if accepted and load if available" is default. And not textually indicated
09:55:12 <planetmaker> Maybe it's a suggestion for improvement ;-)
09:55:13 <Cornelian> That's what confused me. It not being indicated
09:55:36 <Cornelian> It could be
09:55:45 <Cornelian> Anyways, thank you very much :)
09:55:50 <planetmaker> you're welcome
09:55:52 <Cornelian> You deserve a cookie
09:56:03 <planetmaker> *mampf*
09:56:11 <Cornelian> lol
09:56:15 <Cornelian> Bye :D
09:56:19 <planetmaker> enjoy :-)
09:56:24 <Alberth> have fun playing :)
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09:57:20 <planetmaker> hm... :-) I might possibly make sense indeed to indicate also default orders
09:57:28 <planetmaker> a bit more text. But so what
09:57:47 <planetmaker> hm... maybe two colums. A load and an unload column
09:57:55 <planetmaker> which indicate the corresponding actions
09:58:05 <planetmaker> new order gui
09:58:09 <planetmaker> damn
09:58:43 <Alberth> always text would be sufficient imho
09:59:09 <Alberth> although the separation of loading and unloading does seem to confuse people
09:59:34 * Alberth wonders what the wiki says about it
10:00:38 <planetmaker> always text would be sufficient. but it would be nicer if one could change the load and unload behaviour directly where it is shown
10:00:46 <planetmaker> but that's a different task than "always show"
10:03:09 <Alberth> hmm, that would clean up the mess at the bottom :)
10:03:28 <planetmaker> yes
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10:03:40 <planetmaker> it's not exactly intuitively usable
10:04:48 <planetmaker> <| Goto non-stop |> Some Nice Place <| Unload if available |> <| Load if available |>
10:05:00 <planetmaker> a line like that where you could change in place would be MUCH more intuitive
10:05:01 <Alberth> the window would be much wider?
10:05:08 <planetmaker> yes, would be wider
10:05:24 <planetmaker> though... in columns, maybe not much
10:05:56 * Alberth ponders a kind of pop-up when you click an order
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10:06:11 <planetmaker> I'd like arrows where you can just change it
10:06:20 <planetmaker> like the adv. settings
10:06:33 <planetmaker> though a drop down there would also work
10:07:49 <planetmaker> Goto non-stop |v| Barlinghausen-Süd unload if accepted |v| load if available |v|
10:08:22 <planetmaker> one would not even have to remove the buttons below for hysterical raisins
10:08:23 <Alberth> I am still not entirely convinced you want to have the uload + load combination
10:08:33 <planetmaker> Yes, why not?
10:08:41 <Alberth> as the combination does not make a lot of sense
10:08:42 <planetmaker> that's what you actually normally do, don't you?
10:08:47 <planetmaker> not?
10:08:56 <planetmaker> not all, agreed
10:09:23 <Alberth> hmm, good point, I guess I mean forced unload/load
10:09:31 <planetmaker> but "no unload and load". "unload and no load". "transfer and no load"
10:10:17 <planetmaker> I'm still not warm with the concept of forced unload. As one usually either wants it unload (when accepted) or unloaded and further transported (=transfer)
10:10:28 <Alberth> the trouble is of course when some cargo-d*st hits trunk :)
10:10:43 <planetmaker> the "unload" order is also a bit confusing for newbies who don't know that it means "unload always and process, if accepted"
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10:17:15 <schultza> why is my pre-signal not selecting my round-about track? for waiting trains?
10:17:42 <Alberth> picture please :)
10:17:47 <Alberth> or a save game
10:18:02 <schultza> how do i make a picture?
10:18:21 <schultza> or how do i create a proper round-about track that will be used?
10:19:20 <Alberth> I use a screenshot tool, normally, but the ? at the right of the top bar has a screenshot menu too
10:19:47 <Alberth> round-abouts are very tricky, they tend to cause deadlocks
10:20:20 <planetmaker> ctrl+s
10:20:28 <planetmaker> is much quicker in creating screenshots
10:20:45 <Alberth> a round-about where the whole round-about can be used by 1 train at a time is safe, but has little capacity
10:20:54 * SpComb ping timeouts
10:21:30 <schultza> how do i send the file now?
10:22:11 <Alberth> use a image pastebin site, like imagebin
10:22:30 <Alberth> (and paste the url here)
10:24:34 <schultza>
10:25:05 <planetmaker> you're using a path signal as entrance. Not a pre-signal
10:25:11 <planetmaker> don't mix block and path signals
10:25:18 <peter1138> presignals smell
10:25:30 <schultza> how do i set this up correctly then?
10:25:32 <peter1138> good in their day
10:25:58 <planetmaker> remove all exist signals at the entrance. And replace all exit signals at the exit by normal signals
10:26:06 <planetmaker> and read the signal pages in the wiki
10:26:32 <planetmaker> they have a few simple examples
10:26:36 <lugo> files didn't seem to get attached to #4
10:26:43 <lugo> *#4876
10:26:48 <schultza> im trying to follow this >
10:26:57 <planetmaker> which explain the use
10:27:18 <peter1138> that's rather old :)
10:28:05 <planetmaker> the page you quoted doesn't seem to know anything about signal types
10:28:38 <planetmaker> and targeted at transport tycoon deluxe
10:28:46 <planetmaker> which is an ooooold game ;-)
10:29:09 <planetmaker> then attach them now, lugo ;-)
10:29:24 * lugo searches the edit button
10:29:36 <lugo> or via comment?
10:29:40 <planetmaker> comment
10:29:58 <planetmaker> the bug tracker has no edit for a reason
10:33:51 <lugo> done
10:34:06 <schultza> so the easiest way is to remove the exit points in front of the station? and continue with the path signal?
10:35:17 <planetmaker> ty, lugo
10:35:26 <planetmaker> schultza: yes
10:35:50 <planetmaker> alternatively replace the single path signal by an entry signal
10:36:44 <planetmaker> hm, lugo, can you give me the missing NewGRFs (all which are random/* )?
10:37:03 <planetmaker> and the SAC one?
10:40:14 <planetmaker> lugo: and do you have still a savegame which will run and not crash immediately?
10:42:12 <planetmaker> (but maybe after a few seconds)
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10:47:47 <planetmaker> lugo: but... this crash seems totally unrelated to any desync on first sight
10:48:43 <lugo> i fear the autosaves all got overwritten, and didn't manually save before >1902 :/
10:48:56 <lugo> you don't have testw.grf are you kidding me? :P
10:49:13 <planetmaker> All those NewGRFs in random/* are missing and not available online
10:49:23 <planetmaker> nor do I have that version of SAC's objects
10:49:44 <planetmaker> it's not the testw.grf
10:50:28 <planetmaker> it's a firs, tramdpw, VASTobjects and maricow
10:53:17 <lugo> i'm wondering about a way to send them to you, i can only ssh-via-http to my server right now...
10:53:22 <lugo> do you have an ftp?
10:53:43 <planetmaker> no. But there's e-mail and forum mail
10:54:17 <planetmaker> alternatively they could be attached to the bug report. As anyone who wants to look at the game would need them, too
10:54:23 <planetmaker> as one zip file
10:54:51 <lugo> yeah don't have a cli email client set up right now :)
10:55:35 <planetmaker> but surly you can scp the stuff to you and send from the computer you're chatting from
10:56:42 <planetmaker> or you have a ftp or http server on your openttd server machine
10:56:49 <planetmaker> then I could retrieve them that way
10:57:33 <lugo> yeah would need to access port-forwarding for that, which i can't right now :/
10:57:45 <lugo> and i didn't find a viable way to scp via http yet
10:58:08 <schultza> grr... neither way makes my trains use the round-about
10:58:08 <planetmaker> well. Then the same way you got the other files
10:58:22 <lugo> the hard one
10:58:50 <planetmaker> scp and then mail is hard?
10:59:19 <planetmaker> you obviously have ssh to the server. Use scp by the same channel
10:59:26 <lugo> i'm using consoleFISH, i think you can't transfer files with it
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11:01:38 <lugo>
11:02:30 <planetmaker> grab winscp
11:03:38 <planetmaker> on any other system you'll have scp already
11:04:02 <lugo> ...well i've heard of ways to tunnel through http with winscp, but i'm not to eager trying that out right now :D
11:04:51 <lugo> well setting up a ftp listening on the currently unused torrent port might work ;D
11:06:41 <planetmaker> well. you got somehow the other two files :-)
11:06:56 <planetmaker> I trust you that the same method will work again
11:07:19 <planetmaker> I mean... you'd just need a web-based browser for your file system
11:07:28 <planetmaker> not even ssh
11:07:42 <planetmaker> (as problematic as that might be from a security standpoint)
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11:16:24 <schultza> still having problems creating the loop around
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11:19:11 <Wolf01> hello
11:21:31 * Alberth waves hi
11:22:13 <Alberth> schultza: if you want help, we need more info than that
11:22:56 <planetmaker> a loop is a means to achieve some things (though often a bad one), but barely a goal in itself ;-)
11:23:09 <schultza> same situation... i tried both alternatives to fixing the track with a round-about try-again approach, and the additional track is not being used....
11:24:01 <Alberth> try-again approach?
11:24:42 <schultza> overflow round-about
11:25:09 <schultza> basically, im building an overflow loop
11:25:39 <planetmaker> better build an overflow depot ;-)
11:25:55 <planetmaker> as that has infinite capacity
11:26:03 <schultza> just a depot before the station?
11:26:11 <schultza> is that the only way to manage overflow?
11:27:04 <Alberth>
11:27:20 * Alberth always builds a waiting bay, looks nicer :)
11:42:07 <lugo> planetmaker:
11:43:04 <planetmaker> that's only one of the grf files?
11:51:49 <schultza> ugh.. some code needs to be fixed.. the looptrack needs to be seen... i will start using the escape depot
11:52:14 <lugo> planetmaker:
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12:10:58 <Alberth> looptrack as at the wiki works for me
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13:21:35 <andythenorth> hello
13:22:57 <lugo> salut!
13:25:30 <planetmaker> lugo: I'm still missing the four newgrfs from the random folder of your crashy savegame
13:25:45 <planetmaker> you linked wallys and sac's objects...
13:25:53 <planetmaker> hi andythenorth
13:32:26 <lugo>
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13:34:17 <lugo>
13:34:57 <planetmaker> you sure it's the very same versions?
13:37:01 <planetmaker> hm, yes
13:37:20 <lugo> wasn't too sure ;)
13:38:11 <planetmaker> if you use non-bananas newgrfs always supply them with bug reports
13:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the press makes it sound like they are going to throw britan out of the EU :p
13:43:09 <lugo> i'd have dull feeling uploading other peoples grf, but if that's needed... i may add them in the comments when i'm home...
13:43:39 <planetmaker> lugo: that's why I offered you to send them to me via e-mail or forum mail
13:43:50 <planetmaker> (would also be much more convenient for me
13:44:01 <planetmaker> as I'd not have to click X links or downloads
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13:44:18 <lugo> yeah i was searching for a more elegant solution
13:44:29 <planetmaker> gather, zip, mail?
13:44:33 <planetmaker> makes me wonder
13:44:42 <planetmaker> really
13:44:52 <planetmaker> and get proper ssh to your machine
13:46:50 <lugo> usage of ssh in the network i'm in right now, isn't exactly appreciated i'm afraid :)
13:50:02 <Eddi|zuHause> wtf?
13:50:41 <Eddi|zuHause> do they also forbid you to lock your car when parked?
13:51:36 <lugo> i think i don't get the analogy, but telnet is blocked either..
13:52:25 <Alberth> standard ports can normally not be opened by user programs
13:52:41 <lugo> and that's what my problem is
13:52:55 <Alberth> so use a non-standard port :)
13:53:13 <Alberth> something above 1024 or so
13:53:58 <Alberth> or yell at the sys-admin that he should install ssh ;)
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14:06:20 <Belugas> hello
14:10:40 *** nooblord5000 has joined #openttd
14:10:43 <nooblord5000> hello
14:11:08 <planetmaker> hullo
14:12:23 * andythenorth keeps finding bugs
14:12:28 * andythenorth should play the game more
14:13:31 <planetmaker> that seldom hurts ;-)
14:20:52 <nooblord5000> hya
14:22:05 <nooblord5000> im running a server
14:22:10 <nooblord5000> anyone wanna join?
14:22:22 <nooblord5000> the name is nooblord5000's world
14:22:28 <nooblord5000> no password
14:22:35 <nooblord5000> free to join anyone
14:22:36 <Yexo> nooblord5000: up until a few days ago we always had more servers that clients
14:22:45 <Yexo> right now it's oppposite, but not by much
14:22:55 <Yexo> the current average is like 1.2 players per server
14:23:01 <nooblord5000> u wanna join?
14:23:04 <Yexo> in other words: we don't need more servers, but more online clients
14:23:14 <nooblord5000> fine
14:23:32 <nooblord5000> u dont wanna join
14:23:45 <nooblord5000> anyone?
14:24:32 <planetmaker> Yexo: indeed there seem meanwhile about the same, clients and servers
14:24:33 <Belugas> he... anyone else would probably have the same opinion as Yexo, nooblord5000 :)
14:24:46 <planetmaker> or even slightly more clients
14:24:54 <Belugas> as for myself, I am working
14:24:56 <nooblord5000> so no one?
14:24:59 <planetmaker> doesn't make your recommendation invalid, though
14:25:35 <planetmaker> nooblord5000: people will join it. If you give it some time
14:25:53 <planetmaker> For people to return you'll need to provide good "service" though
14:26:11 <planetmaker> Like active moderation / administration and interesting maps and a reliable uptime
14:27:18 <nooblord5000> im a new to this
14:27:34 <nooblord5000> and my time zon is +1
14:27:36 <nooblord5000> GMT
14:28:08 <nooblord5000> i just hit 20000 people in my biggest town!
14:28:26 <nooblord5000> and yeah the server is on right now
14:31:23 <nooblord5000> anyone free to join
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14:38:23 <nooblord5000> JOIN SERVER:name:nooblord5000's world,on time: RIGHT NOW,password:THERE IS NO ONE!
14:38:41 <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
14:39:00 <Yexo> a single line if fine, but now you've gone over the top a bit
14:42:17 <nooblord5000> why
14:42:28 <Belugas> because you are spamming
14:42:31 <Belugas> which is rude
14:42:37 <Belugas> and annyoing
14:42:40 <nooblord5000> im not
14:42:50 <nooblord5000> im just tell ing about my server
14:42:54 <Belugas> i have a bad day, don't start
14:42:55 <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: imagine all 250 server admins advertising their server every 5 minutes in this channel :)
14:43:19 <TrueBrain> we have a serverlist to tell people about your server. and although I really like your enthousiasm for this game, it simply is a channel rule: do not advertise your server :)
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14:43:42 <nooblord5000> ok
14:43:45 <nooblord5000> didnt know that
14:43:51 <TrueBrain> and that is okay :)
14:43:53 <Belugas> thanks for your understanding :)
14:43:55 <andythenorth> you could advertise in #openttdservers :P
14:43:58 <nooblord5000> there is 250 servers?
14:44:13 <TrueBrain> nooblord5000: this channel is not meant to advertise your server. Please don't.
14:44:14 <TrueBrain> oops
14:44:16 <TrueBrain> sorry :)
14:44:20 <TrueBrain> my copy/paste buffer fucke dup
14:44:23 <TrueBrain>
14:44:27 <TrueBrain> that I wanted to paste :)
14:44:30 * Belugas hugs SlowBrain
14:44:36 <planetmaker> :-D
14:44:45 <TrueBrain> "Servers registered as on 2011-12-09 14:44:09 UTC. There are 308 clients, 229 IPv4 servers and 37 IPv6 servers."
14:44:47 <andythenorth> which bugs should I fix first :P
14:44:55 <TrueBrain> andythenorth: the OSX ones please
14:44:55 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I thought you were disappearing for some days?
14:45:02 <planetmaker> were I?
14:45:06 <andythenorth> maybe I misread
14:45:20 <andythenorth> feel like some FIRS tickets? Small ones?
14:45:25 <nooblord5000> lol
14:45:40 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: you only have yourself to blame for thatone :P You walked right into his trap :D
14:45:49 <planetmaker> I guess :-)
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14:46:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: more likely after the upcoming release(s)
14:46:41 <planetmaker> want to finish a few things before that
14:46:46 <andythenorth> what are you releasing?
14:47:20 <planetmaker> look back a year less 14 days ;-)
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14:51:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth: I could also say: something which gives more incentive to players using firs 0.7
14:52:05 <andythenorth> :)
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14:53:50 <planetmaker> that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo
14:54:43 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: nogo-0.2 allows you to build roads (for free) in world generation; maybe you can make a GS to show your town algorithm by connecting all towns? :D:D
14:54:47 <Yexo> I know,but I hope this game has more known grfs
14:55:04 <planetmaker> :-)
14:55:31 <planetmaker> one
14:56:27 <planetmaker> which is also available in the net it seems
14:56:29 <Yexo> only mainhqw.grf is missing
14:57:41 <planetmaker> searching for that filename will give you a download link
14:58:22 <planetmaker> <-- or there
14:58:38 <Yexo> don't need it
14:59:39 <planetmaker> I know
14:59:51 <planetmaker> it can only be static actionA
15:00:17 <Yexo> found the bug too
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15:06:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23455 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r23438): send the stderr in the right part to /dev/null
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15:11:25 <Yexo> <planetmaker> that's the same thing which crashes, lugo's game, Yexo <_ you remember where he posted that?
15:11:40 <planetmaker> on FS
15:12:01 <planetmaker> <-- but quite wrong title
15:12:26 <Yexo> that is a completely different issue
15:12:36 <planetmaker> no, the attached crash log is that issue
15:12:50 <planetmaker> at least the crash.sav has
15:12:56 <Yexo> same as which issue?
15:13:03 <planetmaker> as this one in the forums
15:13:07 <Yexo> I' ve been fixing this one
15:13:15 <planetmaker> yes
15:13:25 <Yexo> that has to do with airports, not with road stops
15:13:44 <planetmaker> Message: Assertion failed at line 2086 of ..\src\station_cmd.cpp: layout < as->num_table <-- I get the same with lugo's crash.sav
15:14:11 <planetmaker> thus the desync and crash he talks about are totally different things IMHO
15:14:12 <Yexo> planetmaker: that bug was introduced in r23441, lugo played with r23440
15:14:36 <planetmaker> I loaded it in my trunk, granted
15:14:58 <Yexo> those are really different issues
15:15:50 <planetmaker> then that (new) bug stopped me getting the same thing :-)
15:16:08 <planetmaker> I know of no other bug then
15:16:22 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23456 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23441): oilrigs don't have any layouts nor do they provide airport noise
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15:24:16 <Hirundo> today's wtf is a meta-wtf:
15:25:17 <Yexo> hahaha
15:25:44 <peter1138> haven't read that site for years, heh
15:26:19 <Yexo> Is there anything in the spec that requires industries to have tile 0,0 in their layout?
15:29:24 <andythenorth> hmm
15:29:28 <andythenorth> how do I animate in FIRS?
15:30:58 <Hirundo> Yexo: IIRC not
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15:32:12 <Hirundo> andythenorth: a) show different gfx depending on animation_frame and b) set animation properties (simple stuff) and/or callbacks (more complex stuff)
15:32:47 * andythenorth looks
15:33:14 <planetmaker> plastic plant (?) has it
15:36:57 <andythenorth> the iron works (I'm working on has it)
15:38:23 <andythenorth> or is that using child sprites?
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15:39:46 <planetmaker> child sprites or not. It's about showing one sprite or another depending on animation frame
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15:48:05 <andythenorth> so I need to define animation in a child sprite?
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15:51:40 <planetmaker> andythenorth: not necessarily. If it's, say, a building sprite, you can also swap the whole building sprite as animation frame
15:51:47 <planetmaker> s/as/during an/
15:53:33 <andythenorth> I wish I could unlearn nfo :(
15:53:40 <andythenorth> it is a definite hinderance
15:54:37 <Yexo> how is that a hinderance?
15:57:12 <andythenorth> too much doesn't translate
15:57:39 <andythenorth> nml is an entirely different way of creating a grf
15:58:13 <andythenorth> makes nml much more difficult than nml really is
16:02:22 <andythenorth> bringing a gun to a knife fight :P
16:04:06 <peter1138> child sprites are an optimisation thing
16:04:32 <peter1138> they occupy the same bounding box
16:06:17 <peter1138> only the parent sprites are sorted
16:08:02 <peter1138> something i noticed with newgrfs
16:08:15 <peter1138> tile layouts tend to have lots of bounding boxes, one for each sprite
16:08:42 <planetmaker> andythenorth: knowing NFO is not a hindrance but an asset. It helps you understand quite a few quirks
16:08:52 <peter1138> like the swedish houses, they have a bounding box for the flag
16:09:05 <peter1138> which could just as easily be part of the regular sprite
16:11:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23457 /trunk/src/ (4 files): -Codechange: introduce Industry::TileBelongsToIndustry() to simplify code checking for that
16:12:20 <peter1138> FIRS fruit plantation has a lot of bounding boxes
16:12:28 <planetmaker> :-)
16:12:36 <peter1138> some even overlap the tile edge o_O
16:12:40 <Arkabzol> Hell yeah Sweden.
16:12:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23458 /trunk/src/industry_cmd.cpp:
16:12:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix: don't assume all industries that cut trees have tile 0,0
16:12:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix: wait until all tiles of an industry are completed before starting to cut trees
16:14:42 <peter1138> andythenorth, maybe you should use more child sprites ;)
16:14:56 <peter1138> nothing to do with animation thoughy
16:15:53 <peter1138> stations generally need bounding boxes cos they have vehicles going through them
16:16:18 <peter1138> but industries don't
16:17:37 <peter1138> heh, and the smoke on the metal foundry has a bounding box
16:19:02 <peter1138> i guess there's a misconception as to what bounding boxes are for ;)
16:39:58 <andythenorth> I use bounding boxes because I don't know how not to
16:41:07 <andythenorth> also
16:41:20 <andythenorth> are there any examples of animation with nml? I just need to swap realsprites
16:42:26 <andythenorth> normally I'd just check var 44
16:42:40 <andythenorth> and enable animation on the tile
16:45:23 <Yexo> opengfx+airports has animation for at least the flags
16:45:29 <Yexo> doesn't firs already have some animation?
16:45:50 <Yexo> var 44 is named "animation_frame" in nml
16:45:51 <planetmaker> andythenorth: FIRS iirc has animations
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16:46:38 <andythenorth> I'm probably doing this wrong
16:47:09 <Yexo> can you show the changes you already have?
16:47:17 <andythenorth> I don't have any :)
16:47:21 <andythenorth> I have no idea what to change
16:47:43 <andythenorth> I should just start from scratch and write a full industry
16:47:58 <Yexo> what do you want to change?
16:48:00 <planetmaker> laluminum plant has it, andythenorth
16:48:09 <Yexo> ie which industry / tiles do you want to add animation to?
16:48:12 <andythenorth> iron works
16:48:16 <andythenorth> it already has animation though
16:48:30 <andythenorth> I'll just waste your time with dumb questions
16:48:38 <andythenorth> I need to write an industry grf from scratch in nml
16:49:16 <andythenorth> I'll do that later
16:49:42 <Yexo> it's really no problem to keep asking questions
16:50:13 <andythenorth> I won't learn anything
16:50:31 <andythenorth> also there's a manual
16:50:34 <Yexo> I doubt that
16:51:00 <planetmaker> I think what you might want to do, is implement one industry from scratch in NML
16:51:05 <planetmaker> but you can do that in FIRS, too
16:51:08 <andythenorth> I had approximately zero questions when using the tutorial to create vehicles in nml
16:51:11 <andythenorth> maybe one or two
16:51:27 <Yexo> ^^ if you do create a simple industry in nml, perhaps we could use that as example?
16:51:27 <planetmaker> just skip all templates when doing so
16:51:36 <planetmaker> also ^^
16:51:36 <Yexo> we don't have example code for industries yet
16:52:29 <planetmaker> also, other animation code is found with e.g. the oil wells
16:52:41 <andythenorth> good point
16:53:10 <andythenorth> that appears to use the cb
16:56:29 <andythenorth> what would be an amusing standalone industry?
16:56:37 <andythenorth> I keep thinking a lighthouse...
16:56:57 <planetmaker> Post office. Input = Output
16:57:00 <planetmaker> :-P
16:57:19 <planetmaker> gives you exponentially more mail when you input mail from towns ;-)
16:58:20 <planetmaker> Well. Maybe a fish farm?
16:59:03 <Yexo> output=input won't really work, but output=input/4 or so might be interesting
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17:02:46 <planetmaker> Or maybe some ancient industries... not sure which... a pottery?
17:02:53 <planetmaker> accepting clay?
17:02:57 <planetmaker> producing goods?
17:03:14 <b_jonas> shouldn't towns work like that anyway, returning some of the passengers you take there?
17:04:20 <planetmaker> personally I really would like a fish farm :-)
17:05:14 <andythenorth> should probably be in core FIRS
17:05:42 <planetmaker> I like the fish cargo. And fish farms would allow fish also on land or near the shore
17:06:03 <planetmaker> And has many options for interesting graphics
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17:14:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23459 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: don't crash trying to draw airport tiles when the airport grf is missing
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17:29:15 <andythenorth> what will this evaluate to?
17:29:15 <andythenorth> THIS_ID(spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof)
17:29:33 <andythenorth> when CPP parses it
17:29:56 <planetmaker> depends on the definition of THIS_ID. In FIRS it's defined per industry.
17:30:05 <Yexo> something like aluminium_plant_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
17:30:19 <planetmaker> And expands to Industry_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof
17:30:32 <planetmaker> where Industry is the actual industry name
17:30:57 <planetmaker> Actually both, Yexo and I quoted one _ too much ;-)
17:31:05 <andythenorth> so passing params to CPP is like a concat?
17:31:16 <planetmaker> that macro is just concattening
17:31:21 <andythenorth> ok
17:31:22 <Yexo> it depends on the macro
17:31:29 <planetmaker> but ^^
17:31:33 <Yexo> #define THIS_ID(...) aluminium_plant ## __VA_ARGS__
17:31:44 <Yexo> ## is concat in cpp
17:31:57 <andythenorth> ok
17:32:23 <andythenorth> I thought the params were for nml, and THIS_ID was substituting a constant
17:32:31 <andythenorth> or such
17:32:40 <planetmaker> nope, it's all cpp magic
17:32:42 <Yexo> nml never sees THIS_ID
17:32:57 <planetmaker> to avoid writing the lengthy industry name
17:32:57 <andythenorth> so a lot of what I think are parameters, aren't
17:33:05 <planetmaker> and to allow to write macros independent of industry
17:33:23 <Yexo> andythenorth: if you only write a single industry, leave out all those THIS_ID macros
17:33:34 <planetmaker> yes.
17:33:49 <andythenorth> I am back trying to unpick the existing code :P
17:33:50 <Yexo> their use is to make THIS_ID(some_tile) and THIS_ID(some_tile) have unique names when used for different industries
17:33:51 <planetmaker> no macros: no THIS_ID needed
17:34:11 <Yexo> that way both the oil rig and the aluminum plant can have THIS_ID(tile_a) without them overwriting eachother
17:36:21 <andythenorth> can nml do a concat?
17:36:51 <Yexo> for strings: yes, for identifiers, no
17:36:57 <andythenorth> hmm
17:36:58 <andythenorth> ok
17:37:03 <Rubidium> andythenorth: what version of FIRS has checksum FB9B8446A99B02F73488AB9A7DE4CBCA and grfid F1250005 ? ;)
17:37:05 <Yexo> "abc" + "def" works and results in "abcdef"
17:37:13 <andythenorth> Rubidium: :P
17:37:14 <andythenorth> no idea
17:37:22 <andythenorth> I might have just written the identifiers out longhand
17:37:35 <andythenorth> as they also have 'spritelayout_' etc
17:37:47 <andythenorth> spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is not short :)
17:37:56 <andythenorth> ironworks_spritelayout_large_shed_clerestory_roof is barely worse
17:38:32 <Yexo> THIS_ID is useful because it's used in some macros IIRC, dunno precesily
17:38:54 <Yexo> but I agree that writing it out in this case would make things clearer
17:39:15 <andythenorth> I assumed there was some object orientated magic using parameters
17:39:17 <planetmaker> Rubidium: 2635
17:39:26 <andythenorth> and that THIS_ID was equivalent to calling self() or this() or whatever
17:39:56 <andythenorth> I have been trying to figure out what the object / property hierarchy is :D
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17:40:14 <planetmaker>
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17:49:29 <andythenorth> hmm
17:49:42 <andythenorth> so switching tile action 2s was the *old* way to do animation
17:49:57 <andythenorth> presumably now the correct way is to put realsprites into a register?
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17:51:30 <planetmaker> it's easier to do that via registers, yes
17:51:37 <planetmaker> as you then can say:
17:51:45 <planetmaker> sprite: somespriteset(number)
17:52:10 <planetmaker> and only use one layout statement and get sprites directly there via parameter
17:52:19 <planetmaker> which for example could be the animation_frame directly
17:53:37 <Yexo> andythenorth: there is no correct or wrong way for it
17:53:50 <Yexo> switchting tile action2s is still valid
17:54:02 <andythenorth> clunky though :)
17:54:05 <Yexo> depending on how exactly you code it, doing it via registers might be easier and/or less code
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18:12:51 <Hirundo> afaik just doing somespriteset(animation_frame) in the spritelayout should work
18:13:30 <andythenorth> and then handle animation_frame in the graphics?
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18:24:08 <andythenorth> so to animate a tile, do I need to substitute SPRITELAYOUT_FENCES_NORMAL with a custom layout?
18:27:17 * andythenorth hearts EZ
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18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23460 /trunk/src/lang/ (brazilian_portuguese.txt czech.txt unfinished/urdu.txt):
18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: czech - 42 changes by ReisRyos
18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 changes by Tucalipe
18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 154 changes by haider
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19:30:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23461 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: handle a missing airport newgrf as graceful as possible by not crashing when loading such savegame or when an airport is removed
19:53:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23462 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_airport.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use AirportTileTableIterator in a few more places to make the code easier to read
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20:09:33 <Terkhen> hello
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20:28:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23463 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23461): unused variable
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20:48:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23464 /trunk/src/ (order_backup.cpp order_backup.h order_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#4876]: clear the backed up orders of a removed station as well, otherwise one could create orders to a station that was never in the original backupped orders. For example a road vehicle trying to go to a buoy.
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21:40:50 <andythenorth> hmm
21:41:10 <andythenorth> auto-replace is not very clever
21:41:22 <andythenorth> maybe we can upgrade that :P
21:42:14 <Rubidium> that's a common thought for more of the things the developer of autoreplace wrote
21:43:05 <Rubidium> though autoreplace can't be made much more clever without massive conceptual changes
21:43:24 <andythenorth> I am reading the code :P
21:43:53 <Rubidium> is the complexity already oozing out of all orifices?
21:44:11 <andythenorth> not sure yet
21:44:28 <andythenorth> where is GetBestFittingSubType hiding :P
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21:47:21 <Rubidium> vehicle_gui.cpp?
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21:48:23 <andythenorth> yup
21:49:18 * andythenorth wonders if the trailing parts of articulated RVs are just ignored by autoreplace
21:49:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23465 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#4827]: add 'find missing content online' button to 'load savegame' and 'find network game' windows
21:50:32 <frosch123> autoreplace works in whole vehicles
21:50:48 <frosch123> so, all rv are only one vehicle, articulated parts do not matter
21:51:14 <andythenorth> so if first vehicle has 0 capacity, subtype will be ignored?
21:52:03 <frosch123> hmm, might be an issue, yes
21:52:37 <frosch123> it should pick a part with cargo
21:52:44 <andythenorth> I should just put 1t capacity on first vehicle?
21:52:59 <frosch123> (autoreplace checks that the vehicle only carries one cargotype, and refuses to replace inconsistent vehicles)
21:57:17 <Terkhen> good night
21:57:31 <frosch123> andythenorth: <- does that improve it?
21:57:59 * andythenorth tests
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21:59:33 <planetmaker> good night
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22:03:30 <andythenorth> frosch123: :(
22:03:37 <andythenorth> no apparent improvement
22:03:51 <andythenorth> could be a problem with my trams
22:04:45 <frosch123> ah, i guess i need to do the same with the new vehicle
22:07:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23466 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp window.cpp): -Fix [FS#4871, FS#4874]: assertion triggered when resizing a window during ReInit by an amount that's not a multiple of the resize interval
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22:44:11 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23467 /trunk/src/network/network_content_gui.cpp: -Feature [FS#4827]: automatically close the online content window after confirming the download with 'ok'
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23:04:33 <frosch123> night
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23:10:17 <Wolf01> 'night
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