IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-08
00:00:00 <TrueBrain> duh
00:00:02 <TrueBrain> lolz
00:00:20 <TrueBrain> some fun stats: a normal EU night for us is 7 hits per second on our httpd; last hour it was 70 hits/s :P
00:00:41 <TrueBrain> it has been 250+ hits/s today :) Seems to not be even close to the max we can serve .. /me is happy :)
00:01:07 <planetmaker> :-)
00:01:07 <TrueBrain> recalibrated the balancer today, to serve binaries to the US people more locally; seems to work fine too now :)
00:01:29 <planetmaker> zernebok getting more traffic, eh?
00:01:41 <TrueBrain> yup
00:02:06 <TrueBrain> see his post, but his bandwidth was tenfolded of normal yesterday :)
00:02:20 <TrueBrain> I am really happy with that :D
00:03:48 <planetmaker> which post?
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00:04:17 <TrueBrain> on the yogscast thread
00:04:39 <planetmaker> ah
00:04:57 <planetmaker> got a link?
00:05:40 <TrueBrain>
00:06:26 <planetmaker> oh, missed that totally. ty
00:08:07 <TrueBrain> we are collecting a bit of stats there :)
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00:21:07 <Wolf01> 'night
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03:56:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Assertion error in File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/nml/", line 34, in pop
03:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound good
04:00:01 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be a) helpful to give the actual assertion which failed, and b) turn that into a real error?
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05:04:57 <uppy> Hey Everyone I have a train that goes into the station but isnt delivering his cargo. It just stop with one or two trains bits outside the station then reverses
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05:29:30 <RetiredNavyVet> any known bugs with trucks failing to load iron ore?
05:30:49 <RetiredNavyVet> ...have a very short run between mine and mill but trucks just won't load any ore at all
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07:30:56 <planetmaker> moin
07:38:45 <Lachie> morning!
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08:00:44 <planetmaker> Lachie: <-- that's the same as the numbers for real sprites in NFO
08:01:35 <planetmaker> you simply specify where the sprite is located in your graphics file. upper left coordinate, width, height and offsets in x and y direction.
08:02:14 <Lachie> from the point of view of using templates though, I'm assuming the different spritesets using that template have to be set up in exactly the same way?
08:02:29 <planetmaker> using a template for real sprites becomes interesting as soon as you have more than one piece of graphics which are arranged in a similar fashion
08:03:11 <planetmaker> So that you can express their relative positions or alignment once - by means of a template. And then you use the template for the real sprites instead of specifying everything over and over.
08:04:09 <planetmaker> i.e. if you have N engines which are all in identical files (as in the tutorial example ) or in one file below eachother, you define a template like
08:05:18 <planetmaker> template tmpl_trains(x, y) = { [0, 0, 64, 31, -31, 0, NOCROP] ... }
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08:05:33 <Lachie> okay, I understand now.
08:05:41 <planetmaker> and then you use tmpl_trains(2, 10) where needed (where 2 and 10) are some offsets
08:07:59 <Lachie> okay, I get it now. That really does make it that much easier.
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08:14:16 <Lachie> now, are there any templates for setting up train sprites in the correct way, or only the tram/RV ones on the wiki?
08:15:52 <dihedral> greetings
08:16:06 <Lachie> evening.
08:16:13 <planetmaker> Lachie: what is "the correct way"?
08:17:24 <planetmaker> of course existing train sets for sure contain templates. They might use different graphics arrangement in the graphics files than you have. What might be interesting is the alignment which could be taken over
08:17:47 <planetmaker> Look at OpenGFX, OpenGFX+Trains or DutchSet sources. All three contain templates for trains.
08:19:00 <planetmaker> Some of Pikka's alignment templates are found in NML-form in OpenGFX+Trains. FooBar finds them too cryptic in how I implemented them ;-) He might be right
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08:20:45 <planetmaker> a jack-of-all-trades template attempt is not always 'best' ;-)
08:21:35 <Terkhen> good morning
08:21:59 <planetmaker> hi Terkhen
08:23:44 <Lachie> I assume the file I'm looking at is templates_sprites.pnml?
08:24:09 <planetmaker> sounds like a name I used
08:25:50 <Lachie> now, the only templates in there are marked as "wagon" templates, are these appropriate for a locomotive?
08:27:07 <planetmaker> in principle yes. Some engines, esp. the steam ones, might want a bit higher sprites possibly
08:27:23 <planetmaker> but generally for 8/8 length vehicles I see no difference in the needed alignment
08:27:44 <planetmaker> I have there engine templates, too ;-)
08:28:20 <planetmaker> I think the main reason to have these two template categories there is the different arrangement in the graphics files, though
08:28:29 <planetmaker> it's not an alignment difference
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08:33:05 <Lachie> ah yes, engine templates. excellent.
08:36:17 <Lachie> but there's only templates for an 8/8 engine, correct?
08:36:31 <planetmaker> the turboengine template is 7/8
08:37:36 <Lachie> but none shorter?
08:38:09 <Lachie> (just querying, I'm happy to give it a go myself)
08:39:09 <planetmaker> not in my NewGRFs so far, I'm afraid. FooBar has some in the DutchTrains:
08:40:05 <planetmaker> hm... I wonder.... maybe CETS has
08:41:52 <planetmaker> not in an easy way it seems
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08:54:34 <peter1138> QC in NSFW shcoker
08:54:38 <peter1138> *shocker
08:56:06 <planetmaker> :-P
08:56:42 <planetmaker> questionable :-P
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10:20:42 <lugo> if anyone complains about desync-issues again, please ask them if all clients use binaries specifically build for their system. Last time i had problems, i was distributing my 32bit-bundle not knowing some clients hat 64-bit systems..
10:22:12 <planetmaker> if the binary runs, it runs and is valid
10:22:36 <planetmaker> that clearly is not a solution to avoid desyncs. And not the cause
10:22:38 <lugo> though, those clients didn't receive a warning that they were using a "wrong" binary. i.e.: "This is a 32-bit binary, but your system has ??-bit, continue yes/no"
10:22:55 <planetmaker> if it runs, it runs and is not wrong
10:23:08 <planetmaker> wrong binaries simply don't run
10:23:25 <lugo> well the desyncs were gone as soon as they got their specific binaries....
10:23:36 <__ln__> placebo
10:23:40 <planetmaker> ^^
10:23:44 <lugo> maybe coincidence...
10:23:52 <planetmaker> they connected anew. Thus new game. New luck
10:24:16 <planetmaker> 99.5% chance that it's coincidence. But not the cause. Maybe it symptoms easier
10:24:30 <lugo> mysterious..
10:24:37 <planetmaker> like improper variable size declarations
10:25:13 <planetmaker> in any case "use the proper binary" is not the solution.
10:25:24 <planetmaker> As at least one of the binaries then needs fixing
10:25:43 <planetmaker> probably the result then only was, that they all used the same arch as the server
10:27:11 <lugo> server is 32 bit, 2 clients 32-bit, 2 clients 64-bit, the 64-bitters kept desyncing, til they got their specific binary - just to sum up
10:31:10 <lugo> btw, yaay for yaim in trunk! it's awesome!
10:32:06 <Noldo> yet another what?
10:32:33 <planetmaker> there's no 64-bit blitter
10:32:47 <Noldo> bitter
10:32:49 <planetmaker> hm... added an 'l' :-)
10:33:02 <Noldo> I did that too at first reading
10:34:24 <peter1138> :)
10:44:57 <blathijs> planetmaker: Actually, you added 'it bl'
10:45:16 <planetmaker> hm?
10:45:21 <planetmaker> oh
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10:46:27 <peter1138> yeah
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11:12:45 <TrueBrain> lugo: so when the 64bit users were using the 32bit client, it desynced, and when they changed to 64bit client they no longer did? On a vanilla OpenTTD? (unmodified)
11:13:50 <planetmaker> no no, chillpp, iirc
11:14:28 <TrueBrain> ah; then I don't care :) (sorry)
11:15:30 <TrueBrain> I am surprised they don't desync much more often tbh; if past is any indication, patchpacks often desync a lot due to unstable patches used. Clearly chillcore does a better job than others did, but it is to be expected at least 1 patch is unstable :)
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11:28:32 <Rubidium> lugo: what version of OpenTTD was desyncing?
11:29:32 <Rubidium> lugo: and a 32bits binary on 64bits CPU cannot desync when the 32bits binary on a 32bits CPU does not (under the exact same circumstances), unless the CPU is faulty
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12:03:33 <lugo> Rubidium: r23440; "cannot desync when the 32bits binary on a 32bits CPU does not" < how do you mean that? All clients should have desynced at the same time?
12:05:12 <lugo> well we had 2 to 3 desyncs from the 64-bit-clients, than the server crashed, and than i realized they were using "incorrect" binaries
12:05:53 <lugo> i should have the crashlog..
12:06:19 <lugo> somewhere..
12:07:01 <lugo> is there a scp-version of consolefish yet? :D
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12:07:08 <peter1138> a server crash might tell you something is not right with it ;)
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12:09:45 <lugo> TrueBrain: vanilla, with ~25 newgrfs, yep that's what happened..
12:10:01 <TrueBrain> it wasn't chillpp?
12:10:23 <lugo> well i thought i'd spare me some troubling not using the pack :)
12:10:24 <planetmaker> if vanilla openttd crashes... then please make a bug report with the crash files
12:10:42 <TrueBrain> desyncs dont crash planetmaker ;)
12:11:03 <TrueBrain> lugo: that is very unusual ... a 32bit app should run identical on a 32bit system as 64bit system ... odd
12:11:06 <planetmaker> no. But I read server crash
12:11:21 <planetmaker> "...than the server crashed..."
12:11:41 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: somehow I fail to read that :P /me rereads for the 5th time :)
12:11:44 <planetmaker> desync on trunk, yes. Doesn't crash. Is a pain
12:11:47 <TrueBrain> ah, there :P
12:12:01 <planetmaker> Brought us the coop stable server, though ;-)
12:12:12 <planetmaker> and is my main motivation to maintain that :-P
12:12:14 <TrueBrain> hehe, those good old days :)
12:12:24 <planetmaker> yeah, post 1.0.0... :-)
12:12:28 <TrueBrain> post 0.6.3 :P
12:12:30 <TrueBrain> euh
12:12:31 <TrueBrain> pre
12:12:33 <TrueBrain> :)
12:12:54 <planetmaker> but ... the coop welcome server only appeared after 1.0.0. Or exactly then
12:13:05 <planetmaker> And cought 4? 5? desyncs till 1.0.2 or so
12:13:22 <TrueBrain> I remember I fixed a douzen of desyncs with coop when they just started :P
12:13:39 <TrueBrain> I remember one specificly, newgrf that had random data initialized ...
12:13:42 <TrueBrain> on each client different :P
12:14:37 <planetmaker> :-)
12:19:12 <peter1138> nice
12:20:31 <peter1138> mind you back then we didn't really support newgrf
12:20:45 <TrueBrain> the parts we implemented were :P
12:20:57 <lugo> sooo.. just putting up crash.log and crash.sav and a little summary of my rant would qualify as a bugreport?
12:20:59 <TrueBrain> and I only remember it because it was the only newgrf code I ever debugged :P
12:21:04 <peter1138> it was basically "support for one particular vehicle set" :p
12:21:33 <peter1138> back when pause-on-join was a separate patch
12:21:41 <TrueBrain> lugo: depends on the quality of the rant ... as in, rather no rant and just a nice summary ;)
12:21:58 <peter1138> i guess openttdcoop might've been a different group of people back then
12:26:05 <peter1138> hmm, right, file_slot/file_pos implies it's in a grf file currently
12:28:20 <Arkabzol> I might be butting in, but I'm curious about the spawn behaviour of oil rigs and wondered if/where I could read about it since the wiki doesn't say much.
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12:28:45 <Arkabzol> Spawn behaviour in general would be interesting, actually.
12:29:19 <Wolf01> hello
12:30:21 <Arkabzol> Hi.
12:30:56 <appe> you guys are mostly not english
12:31:24 <appe> but most of you speak and spell it fantasticly good
12:31:32 <appe> thus, i have a question
12:31:42 <appe> in swedish, i often refer to "things that wasnt yesterday"
12:31:51 <appe> as in, "oh look, 90's porn. that wasnt yesterday!"
12:32:00 <appe> does that work in english?
12:32:14 <peter1138> not really
12:32:30 <peter1138> i mean, it's factually correct, but...
12:32:33 <peter1138> (also, wasn't)
12:33:22 <appe> ah
12:33:35 <TrueBrain> you sound like an old men if you say that :D
12:33:42 <appe> :<
12:33:44 <appe> maybe i am
12:33:46 <appe> you runt
12:33:48 <TrueBrain> (or in your case: when, I guess)
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13:08:04 <lugo> another problem i'm having...
13:08:34 <lugo> i tried connecting to said server from a client, through Multiplayer-GUI
13:09:51 <lugo> it wasn't in the list of online games, but that would have been too good to begin with ;)
13:10:11 <lugo> so no problem i say, just add the ip:port via 'add server'
13:10:32 <lugo> no dice..
13:10:58 <lugo> but when starting openttd with a command switch, i.e. openttd.exe -n ip:port, it would connect just fine
13:11:05 <TrueBrain> @openttd port
13:11:05 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
13:11:08 <TrueBrain> mind the UDP part
13:12:00 <lugo> mmmh, i thought i did put both UDP/TCP through, gotta double check that, thanks
13:12:28 <TrueBrain> the -n option bypasses all UDP communications, where the GUI requires it
13:12:53 <lugo> ah, that makes sense then
13:13:52 <TrueBrain> it would also mean you are not listed on the masterserver list
13:14:18 <TrueBrain> which the server would have told you about too if I am not mistaken :)
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14:18:02 <Belugas> hello
14:19:30 <planetmaker> hi Belugas
14:19:54 <Belugas> sir planetmaker :)
14:23:37 <Terkhen> hi Belugas
14:28:46 <Belugas> sir Terkhen :)
14:28:57 <Belugas> Let it Snow, Let it Snow!
14:50:21 <peter1138> grrrrrrrrrrrr
14:50:31 <peter1138>
14:50:41 <peter1138> ^ i need that firmware :S
14:58:24 <SpComb> but it's not freee enough!
14:58:58 <peter1138>
14:59:03 <peter1138> ^ looked free back then o_O
15:00:23 <SpComb> GPL'd binary firmware?
15:00:24 <SpComb> hmm
15:00:29 <peter1138> apparently
15:00:47 <peter1138> i can't bring the interfaces up :(
15:00:50 <SpComb> or someone just understood the `static const u32 firmware_foo[]` bit wrong
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15:01:05 <SpComb> peter1138: didn't they add the firmware .bin?
15:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: what you mean is open, not free
15:02:55 <peter1138> SpComb, exactly
15:03:21 <SpComb> peter1138: well, 'starfire/gfp_rx.bin' :)
15:03:30 <SpComb> +_tx
15:04:08 <SpComb> and /lib/firmware, I assume
15:04:18 <peter1138> hmm
15:04:23 <peter1138> [ 549.225121] starfire 0000:0b:04.0: firmware: requesting adaptec/starfire_rx.bin
15:04:26 <peter1138> [ 549.228439] starfire: Failed to load firmware "adaptec/starfire_rx.bin"
15:04:28 <peter1138> different name...
15:04:34 <SpComb> blame debian
15:05:08 <peter1138> that is 2008, so it's a different kernel version
15:05:14 <SpComb>;h=6963b36bfb1f171ae8ea4884e239bdccc5f47266
15:05:26 <SpComb> that has firmware/adaptec/starfire_rx.bin.ihex
15:05:38 <peter1138> yeah
15:07:08 <SpComb> but funny that the debian maintainer didn't add it in
15:07:39 <peter1138> bah, i'll complain to his wife, that'll solve it
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16:11:03 <Yexo> lol, P1SIM is delayed by another year yet again
16:11:17 <planetmaker> :-)
16:17:50 <Eddi|zuHause> we should nominate DBSetXL for a vapourware award (since it had announced a release date, which passed)
16:19:08 <SpComb> 0.9?
16:20:40 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it's still no 11 years 11 months and 11 days since OpenTTD 1.1.1 (or 11.11.11)
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16:26:36 <peter1138> ya
16:26:37 <peter1138>
16:26:40 <peter1138> ^ bit spammy :P
16:27:25 <peter1138>
16:27:27 <peter1138> ^ hah!
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17:28:11 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i "restore" a file in mercurial that was deleted in a previous commit?
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17:32:47 <planetmaker> rebase the current version on the previous one, maybe with --detach?
17:32:52 <planetmaker> works only in hg 2.0.x
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17:39:07 <Yexo> hg cat some/file.txt -r old_rev > some/file.txt ?
17:39:12 <Yexo> bit of a workaround though
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17:45:23 <planetmaker> alternatively commit onto the previous version. And the merge the two heads, keeping the old file in the merge
17:45:36 <SpComb> `hg revert -r ... foo/...` ?
17:46:32 <planetmaker> that only works when you've not committed
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17:46:43 <SpComb> no, that's `hg revert foo/...`
17:46:58 <SpComb> "Using the -r/--rev option, revert the given files or directories to their contents as of a specific revision"
17:47:22 <SpComb> sounds right
17:47:26 <planetmaker> I see. Interesting. yes
17:47:27 <SpComb> haven't tried it, mind
17:47:40 <SpComb> it's a little confusing after using `svn revert`
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17:52:22 <peter1138> hg smells
17:52:24 <peter1138> so yeh
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17:56:37 <Hexxeh> Hey
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17:57:16 <Hexxeh> Compiling OpenTTD using --os=unix, but it's still trying to link in OSX frameworks, is there some other option I need to set to cross-compile to Linux?
17:57:28 <Hexxeh> Well, technically not Linux, Native Client, but close enough.
17:57:50 <Rubidium> I guess you need to pass the right gcc as well
17:57:54 <planetmaker> errm... cross-compiling is never a task to just set a flag and be done
17:57:55 <Hexxeh> Done that yeah
17:57:59 <planetmaker> and right libs
17:58:09 <planetmaker> and right arch
17:58:10 <Rubidium> oh, and --host?
17:58:20 <Hexxeh> It's compiling just fine using the native client toolchain, just fails at link because it's trying to link OSX frameworks that don't exist on there
17:58:31 <Hexxeh> is host required in this case?
17:58:52 <planetmaker> missing linker flags?
17:59:07 <Hexxeh> ./configure --without-lzma --without-liblzo2 --endian=LE --host=x86_64-nacl --os=unix --disable-network --enable-static --with-zlib=/Developer/nacl-sdk/src/toolchain/mac_x86_newlib/x86_64-nacl/usr/lib/libz.a
17:59:37 <Hexxeh> fails at linking with x86_64-nacl-g++: ApplicationServices: No such file or directory
17:59:48 <Hexxeh> ApplicationServices is an OSX framework it shouldn't be trying to link at all
18:00:40 <Rubidium> freetype or libpng could be providing that
18:01:01 <Rubidium> could you post the config.log somewhere?
18:01:14 <Hexxeh> yeah sure, one moment
18:01:42 <TrueBrain> --without-libpng (or --without-png?) might help? :)
18:02:30 <Hexxeh>
18:02:50 <planetmaker> I wonder thought whether w/o libpng the game will be fun ;-)
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18:03:03 <Hexxeh> kinda assumed libpng was pretty essential ;)
18:03:18 <Terkhen> just for screenshots / heightmaps IIRC
18:03:24 <Rubidium> not as essential for multiplayer than lzma
18:03:31 <TrueBrain> problem is that it most likely pulls in OSX stuff
18:03:35 <planetmaker> Hexxeh: your compiler is detected as osx' gcc
18:03:43 <planetmaker> returned i686-apple-darwin10
18:03:45 <Hexxeh> planetmaker: any flag to override it?
18:04:02 <Rubidium> Hexxeh: ignore planetmaker ;)
18:04:05 <TrueBrain> owh, it seems SDL pulls it in
18:04:09 <planetmaker> :-x
18:04:16 <Rubidium> what he saw what the local compiler used for strgen
18:04:32 <TrueBrain> as does libpng :)
18:04:36 <Hexxeh> i'll admit, i've never compiled openttd from source before, but i was playing openttd on my chromebook earlier today, thought it'd be much better if it ran under native client so i'm gonna have a crack at porting it
18:04:41 <TrueBrain> and freetype :)
18:04:42 <Rubidium> the host compiler (for building OpenTTD) is x86_64-nacl-g..
18:05:13 <planetmaker> but Rubidium is right as usual ;-) Didn't we just establish that he's a smart guy? :-)
18:06:22 <Rubidium> but it is definitely picking up a lot of the OS X libraries
18:06:46 <TrueBrain> you will have to overwrite all of them manually
18:06:58 <TrueBrain> libpng-config, sdl-config, freetype-config all return OSX stuff
18:07:49 <TrueBrain> Hexxeh: at the bottom of the file you just showed, it says: LDFLAGS, then a long line. You have to fiddle as lng till all the OSX deps are gone there I guess :)
18:08:09 <Rubidium> I'd advise a chroot/jail with only the gcc/g++ of the local operating system and the libraries and gcc of the operating system you're cross compiling to
18:08:29 <Hexxeh> surely there's a better way than that?
18:08:37 <Hexxeh> that seems like sidestepping the issue rather than fixing it
18:08:48 <planetmaker> the LDFLAGs contain all the frameworks
18:08:51 <Rubidium> and you'd definitely need sdl or allegro if you want to use it for something else than a dedicated server
18:09:05 <TrueBrain> Hexxeh: the 'bug' to fix is in your system :)
18:09:12 <Hexxeh> Rubidium: SDL lib is available
18:09:17 <Rubidium> Hexxeh: there is, but that means --with-libpng=/path/to/the/right/libpng-config
18:09:21 <Rubidium> for all libraries
18:09:23 <Hexxeh> that works
18:09:25 <Hexxeh> i'll do that then
18:09:47 <Rubidium> Hexxeh: but the SDL library that gets picked up is an OSX SDL, or at least the sdl-config is an OSX one
18:09:48 <TrueBrain> or point to the right library yourself, but yeah, like said: you have to set them all manually :)
18:10:01 <planetmaker> might be much easier to compile natively ;-)
18:10:03 <planetmaker> MUCH
18:10:16 <TrueBrain> or build a valid jail :)
18:10:26 <TrueBrain> that is how we crosscompile :)
18:10:57 <Rubidium> I'm doing my DOS builds in a jail just because it's much better contained and won't pick up foreign libraries ;)
18:11:41 <TrueBrain> for crosscompiling you have to make sure all native libraries, configs and headers are surpressed, and the ones for which you are cross compiling are used :)
18:12:13 <TrueBrain> (which is a bitch, and which is why crosscompiling is 'harder' than just compiling for a native system :))
18:12:20 <Rubidium> too bad that pkg-config and friends still don't have proper cross-compiling (and multiarch) support
18:12:27 <planetmaker> <-- Rubidium
18:13:10 <planetmaker> compiles. I haven't yet extensively tested
18:13:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23446 /trunk/src/ (17 files in 6 dirs): -Codechange: move _cur_palette and it's related first/count dirty variables into a single structure
18:13:37 <planetmaker> but seems that AvailabilityMacros.h is included in the ApplicationServices.h
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18:18:25 <Hexxeh> hmm, what's the minimum libs i need to provide paths for if i'm doing it this way? done libpng, zlib, freetype, sdl
18:18:31 <Hexxeh> osx libs are still getting pulled in
18:18:55 <Rubidium> *all* libraries
18:19:11 <Rubidium> either give it the path to the config, or --without-library
18:19:16 <planetmaker> --without-XXX for all XXX which can be found OSX
18:19:31 <Rubidium> which is essentially everything ;)
18:21:35 <Hexxeh> think I got it
18:25:52 <Hexxeh> yep, just got nacl linker errors now, awesome
18:26:35 <planetmaker> great :-)
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18:35:52 <Belugas> thu...
18:36:01 <Belugas> while not not table.eof do
18:36:05 <Belugas> fuck..
18:36:14 <Alberth> :D
18:36:15 <planetmaker> but but but ... ;-)
18:36:24 <Belugas> only works when no data is avaiable
18:36:28 <Belugas> stupid me...
18:36:38 <Belugas> that's the trace of a phone call!
18:36:41 <Belugas> SABOTAGE!!!
18:36:43 <peter1138> not not :D
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18:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hey, double negative is an emphasis of a negation. don't they teach that?
18:41:10 <Hexxeh> except now it's refusing to compile my glue code
18:42:23 <Hexxeh> so the list of objs_cpp is generated at configure time?
18:42:31 <Hexxeh> rather than being hardcoded into a makefile
18:43:50 <glx> it's hardcoded in makefile by configure :)
18:44:03 <Hexxeh> yeah, that's what i mean
18:45:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23447 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
18:45:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 42 changes by arnau
18:45:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 1 changes by Jacco011
18:45:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 26 changes by matma6
18:45:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 27 changes by Tucalipe
18:45:34 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 150 changes by haider
18:56:51 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: someone forgot to tell the compilers that
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19:00:25 <andythenorth> planetmaker: does ottd work with Lion (10.7)?
19:00:27 <andythenorth> I assumed not
19:00:52 <andythenorth> most things don't apparently :P
19:01:39 <planetmaker> andythenorth: last time I tried, it works
19:01:58 <Terkhen> yes, it seems that trying is a required step for knowing if something works or not :)
19:02:04 <planetmaker> not like it's really supported big time, but yes
19:02:46 <planetmaker> it has a few open issues wrt that which neither I nor anyone else addressed so far
19:03:37 <andythenorth> everyone I know who tried it has downgraded from Lion
19:03:43 <andythenorth> the sample size is admittedly small
19:04:33 <Terkhen> heh, so it is like windows vista?
19:05:19 <andythenorth> 10.6 could be the last OS X I ever use.
19:05:26 <andythenorth> but probably I'll end up upgrading :P
19:05:29 <andythenorth> they get you like that
19:06:22 <Terkhen> you can always jump versions if one is bad
19:06:28 <planetmaker> I didn't downgrade really. But I didn't swap the HDDs to make the 10.7 my primary system
19:06:44 <planetmaker> but from what I saw it's not bad.
19:06:46 <planetmaker> I was mostly lazy
19:09:30 <andythenorth> I've become one of those people who resents change :(
19:09:46 <andythenorth> like those guys who thought the sky had fallen when OS X replaced OS 9
19:10:08 <andythenorth> biab
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19:33:30 <Rubidium> andythenorth: it's at least not officially supported ;)
19:34:47 <andythenorth> If I use it and I find no bugs, does it become officially supported? :P
19:34:49 <andythenorth> I guess not :P
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19:37:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23448 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: keep a local copy of the palette in the 32bpp animated blitter so changes of the palette data during the game don't influence drawing (with SDL)
19:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> "NewGRF 'HEQS 1.1.0' returns wrong information, result of callback 0x0x14b2251 returns unknown and invalid result 0x0x23" <-- wth?
19:38:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: old version?
19:38:07 <andythenorth> I made one that was broken
19:38:08 <andythenorth> apparently
19:38:35 <andythenorth> I think ottd got more strict about my broken cbs
19:39:05 <SpComb> 0x0x
19:40:03 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: still, the message is all wrong...
19:41:03 <peter1138> 0x0x23 :D
19:41:18 <peter1138> your printf is adding 0x
19:41:21 <peter1138> apparently
19:41:25 <andythenorth> use a different HEQS
19:41:31 <andythenorth> makes your ottd bug get fixed :P
19:42:10 <andythenorth> also
19:42:13 <peter1138> oh, it's not done with printf :)
19:42:20 <andythenorth> tech levels, either they're fine, or stupid
19:42:24 <andythenorth> I'm confused :P
19:42:40 <planetmaker> they don#t fit the game at all
19:43:06 <frosch123> so, the 0x is too much :p
19:43:18 <andythenorth> but a GS where a local authority prevents xyz until goal abc is met makes sense
19:43:19 <frosch123> but 14b2251 is also a bit much
19:43:49 <peter1138> yes
19:44:02 <peter1138> a parameter's going wrong somewhere
19:44:06 <frosch123> oh, using wrong parameters
19:44:11 <peter1138> i guess that's the pointer to the grf's name
19:45:12 <frosch123> <- likely something like that
19:46:23 <peter1138> *nod*
19:47:51 <Alberth> looks ok
19:47:55 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23449 /trunk/src/lang/ (26 files): -Fix (r23140): Wrong parameters in error message.
19:48:12 <frosch123> hmm, i did not check unfinished languages
19:48:30 <frosch123> persian translated it :)
19:49:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23450 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/persian.txt: -Fix (r23449): Forgot unfinished languages.
19:51:39 <Alberth> I'd translate it too, how did they find out it was wrong?
19:52:51 <Alberth> it's not like the error happens every day :)
19:54:08 <frosch123> now it says "Callback 0x23 returned unknown/invalid result 0xcb0"
19:55:06 <frosch123> cb1 and cb2 are also in store :)
19:55:20 <frosch123> does "cb" mean callback?
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19:56:43 <Arkabzol> You know you're a greedy bastard when your transfer railroads go around a power station.
20:01:33 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23451 /trunk/src/video/sdl_v.cpp: -Codechange: [SDL] Move 32bpp-anim palette animation to the draw thread instead of the single threaded bit of the game loop. This causes a speedup of up to 15% when animation is turned on with the 32bpp-anim blitter
20:03:31 <Alberth> a callback returning a callback? :p
20:12:20 <peter1138> gosh
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20:36:51 <Yexo> the OpenTTD forum section is now above the general transport tycoon one, and still there are multiple people posting questions about openttd in there
20:37:38 <planetmaker> that's indeed very amazing
20:38:02 <planetmaker> I'd not have bet on that level of "intelligence"
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20:38:27 <planetmaker> But then... I learnt some new lessons on reading comprehension and attention span in the postings and e-mails from the last 72 hours or so
20:38:35 <andythenorth> it's not intelligence
20:38:37 <andythenorth> it's accuracy
20:38:38 <planetmaker> something I'd not have thought possible
20:38:47 * andythenorth makes stupid dumb mistakes all the time
20:39:09 <andythenorth> but /me can discuss n-dimensional non-euclidean hyperspaces with only a small amount of trouble
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20:40:07 <planetmaker> andythenorth:
20:40:13 <planetmaker> and it's one of 5
20:40:17 <planetmaker> identical
20:40:21 <frosch123> the ttdp forum should be moved above the tt forums
20:40:26 <planetmaker> 2 in forums. 3 via e-mail
20:40:32 <frosch123> it annoys me that the 32bpp forum is more active :p
20:40:41 <andythenorth> I liked this post:
20:40:54 <andythenorth> "The first mistake most gameplay zealots make is thinking that the game should revolve around them. The second is believing that it already does"
20:41:00 <andythenorth> and the problem with that is?
20:41:02 <andythenorth> :P
20:41:12 * andythenorth qualifies on both counts
20:41:34 <planetmaker> yes, I liked that posting, too
20:42:15 * andythenorth will now play the game some more
20:42:27 <andythenorth> my game is probably quite different to most player's
20:48:11 <Arkabzol> I like how the oil rigs "produce" passengers. It's like they're making babies.
20:53:05 <andythenorth> water_cmd.cpp l361 - I take it my pony about locks overbuilding rapids won't be granted?
20:53:08 <andythenorth> :|
20:53:18 <andythenorth> seems to be by design
20:57:24 <andythenorth> can we make it an advanced setting?
20:57:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "do not enforce realistic building"?
20:58:07 <andythenorth> 'make rivers more useful'
20:58:07 <andythenorth> :P
20:58:32 <frosch123> "win after 5 minutes"
20:58:52 <planetmaker> "AI: play game for me [x]"
20:58:56 <frosch123> the 5 could be a setting thougg
20:59:04 <andythenorth> frosch123: I already won - I bought a coal train :P
20:59:33 <frosch123> can nogo popup a query box "do you want to win now?" ?
20:59:47 <planetmaker> it could, I guess
20:59:57 <andythenorth> you could set a timer
21:00:00 <andythenorth> 'win in 3 mins'
21:00:43 <frosch123> there should be a gs where you can bribe the government to build a road/canal for you :p
21:00:57 <andythenorth> so....I have to maintain my own patch queue to fix rivers? :(
21:01:09 <frosch123> andy patchpack?
21:02:24 <Elukka> hmm. from TTD's perspective you wouldn't see the upper fourth of the BR38's driving wheels
21:02:28 <Elukka> might apply to some other locomotives too
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21:02:47 <Elukka> or upper third depending on the angle
21:02:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: bug oberhümer?
21:03:06 <Elukka> maybe
21:03:11 <Elukka> i'm not sure how it'd look
21:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> you never know unless you draw it
21:04:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: open wagon. oberhümer has introduced some stuff to copy the dutch set's use of the fire cycle colours for cargo recolouring (instead of the magic pink i proposed earlier)
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21:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: maybe you want to reconsider your drawings :)
21:05:03 <planetmaker> why now fire cycle?
21:05:23 <Rubidium> that's a bad idea. How am I supposed to transport fire now?
21:05:40 <Belugas> with a torch?
21:05:47 <Belugas> a candle?
21:05:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: no, the "problem" is wagons made of fire transporting something else :)
21:06:17 <Alberth> Belugas: a 'sparks' train in toy land!
21:06:27 <Belugas> :D
21:06:49 <planetmaker> indeed I see use for the fire palette
21:06:50 <Belugas> that'd be cool! instead of smoke, or bubble, you'll see sparkles!
21:07:00 <planetmaker> or a ghetto-style party waggon with burning oil barrels
21:07:13 <Alberth> a 'stars' mine would be nice too :)
21:07:19 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe you want to start a ticket for discussing this?
21:07:37 <Yexo> what was the problem with magic pink?
21:07:38 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: from my point of view, it's easily changeable
21:07:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: no idea, he did this without asking
21:07:58 <planetmaker> I was until 2 minutes ago under the impression that the magic pink would be used as it's pointless colours anyway in other contexts
21:08:21 <andythenorth> real men draw the load sprites
21:08:26 <andythenorth> non of this recolouring nonsense
21:08:43 <Alberth> planetmaker: the only reason I can see for not being able to read the readme text is either they are too young to read, or they don't know english
21:08:53 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: we already have 25k sprites without anything drawn :p
21:09:17 <andythenorth> where's the problem with that? :P
21:09:23 <Yexo> Alberth: but in both of those cases they have no business posting on the forums
21:09:28 <planetmaker> Alberth: and stop reading / quoting at the sentence before the answer to their question is written down?
21:10:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ok... i'll start a ticket
21:10:30 <planetmaker> well, ok
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21:10:49 <andythenorth>
21:11:53 <frosch123> still mountain rafting?
21:13:12 <andythenorth> hmm
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21:13:18 <andythenorth> so andypatchpack now contains:
21:13:28 <andythenorth> - the rather elegant daylength solution by Eddi|zuHause
21:13:32 <andythenorth> - fix locks
21:13:39 <Belugas> mine of stars... now that's quite an idea! andythenorth, next time you've got an empty page moment, you'l know what to do!
21:15:08 <Alberth> andy doesn't do toyland :(
21:15:57 <planetmaker> <-- Eddi|zuHause
21:16:06 <planetmaker> nice ticket number :-)
21:16:21 <Eddi|zuHause> :)
21:16:25 <Rubidium> we're also almost at a nice revision number
21:16:47 <planetmaker> 369?
21:17:02 <Elukka> i really need to get some sprites done...
21:17:06 <planetmaker> oh, wrong speaker :-)
21:17:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: so why are we not having a party?
21:18:21 <planetmaker> did you organize one?
21:19:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: also, the livestock wagon was listed as length 4 in the table, while you drew a length 5 one
21:19:57 <Elukka> hm. i assumed it was the same chassis as the goods wagon
21:20:08 <Eddi|zuHause> yesandno
21:20:08 <Elukka> least that was the only type of prussian livestock wagon i could find pictures of
21:20:21 <frosch123> Rubidium: we already have the nice number
21:20:30 <Eddi|zuHause> it's the same as the A6 goods wagon, but the one used in the set is the A10 goods wagon
21:20:32 <frosch123> just rotated left by one
21:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no. the same as the A1
21:22:05 <Eddi|zuHause> A1: 8,1m, A6,6: 6m, A10: 9,1m, livestock: 8,2m
21:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> äh
21:22:21 <Eddi|zuHause> A1: 8,1m, A6: 6,6m, A10: 9,1m, livestock: 8,2m
21:24:01 <Belugas> Alberth: he does not play anyway, he just codes!
21:24:10 <Belugas> hem.. does he?
21:24:18 <Belugas> play
21:24:50 <andythenorth> I play until I find something that needs changing
21:24:57 <andythenorth> which is usually about 30 seconds
21:25:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: in, the raise in pop_global, shouldn't that be exception_unique?
21:25:15 <Belugas> :)
21:25:37 <andythenorth> I think the game is nearly done though
21:25:41 <andythenorth> just needs locks fixing...
21:26:22 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: no
21:26:39 <Alberth> playing and finding bugs is quite common here :)
21:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> then i'm probably not understanding what the function does
21:26:44 <Yexo> pop_global() will fails if and only if pop() fails too
21:27:03 <Yexo> pop() gets a number, as soon as restore() is called that number will be available again
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21:27:12 <Linkandzelda> hello
21:27:14 <Yexo> pop_global() gets a number, but it won't become available after the next restore()
21:27:29 <Yexo> pop_unique() gets a number that has never been given out before via pop() or pop_global()
21:27:55 <Yexo> hi Linkandzelda
21:28:03 <Linkandzelda> hey
21:28:05 <Linkandzelda> whats up
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21:29:39 <planetmaker> today I was greeted in another channel with "hello, what is your question" ;-)
21:30:12 <Linkandzelda> heh
21:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> "please state the nature of the medical emergency"?
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21:31:20 <andythenorth>
21:31:30 <andythenorth> dunno why I try to follow rivers at all :P
21:32:24 <Linkandzelda> hmm does anyone know what is the latest version for PSP?
21:32:35 <Linkandzelda> and whether its still in active development
21:33:29 <planetmaker> yes and yes. But the answer to the underlaying question is "I don't" and "it's not" ;-)
21:33:55 <Linkandzelda> hehe i expected as much
21:34:01 <Linkandzelda> i just wnted to play online with it
21:34:07 <Yexo> <- that has a 0.5.3 version
21:34:13 <planetmaker> then it's definitely the wrong choice
21:34:15 <Yexo> no clue whether it works at all, but certainly not online
21:35:24 <Linkandzelda> i see
21:35:26 <Linkandzelda> hmm ok
21:35:32 <Linkandzelda> and what about ipad or iphone? :)
21:35:40 <Linkandzelda> any other mobile device versions?
21:35:46 <Yexo> there is a more recent version for that
21:35:52 <planetmaker> neither is officially supported, but ^
21:35:56 <Yexo> but it's not in the appstore due to apple's policy
21:36:13 <Linkandzelda> oh damn apple
21:36:23 <Rubidium> there's on in the android one I've heard
21:37:22 <andythenorth> should make a browser version :P
21:37:42 <frosch123> <- wow, up to date to 1.1.4
21:37:45 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: there's a 5 lu "Verschlagwagen für Kleinvieh (Verbandsbauart)" on the tracking table
21:38:05 <Elukka> my problem in general is most of this stuff is so obscure i can't just plug whatever is on the tracking table to google and expect to get detailed info on it
21:38:16 <Linkandzelda> that looks awesome
21:38:37 <Elukka> so i use the sites that've been linked, i google around and look for pictures of models if real ones aren't available
21:38:56 <planetmaker> I just wished those developers could be arsed to issue patches upstream
21:38:59 <planetmaker> but none does
21:39:09 <Elukka> sometimes it might be slightly inaccurate, but i don't have any better sources of information
21:39:28 <frosch123> planetmaker: the dev link results in an sdl port page
21:41:05 <planetmaker> hm, got the link? I don't find it
21:41:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: yes, i changed that number to fit the graphics for now
21:41:26 <frosch123> planetmaker:
21:41:35 <planetmaker> ty
21:41:53 <frosch123> all ports including the sdl are in one big git thingie
21:42:03 <Elukka> alright
21:45:12 <planetmaker> seems so, yes
21:45:22 <planetmaker> might even be understandable
21:45:43 <planetmaker> it's then easy to pull the general UI fixes to each
21:45:48 <planetmaker> but... bad for any single game
21:46:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: actually the openttd source is not in the git repo, just the patch
21:46:40 <frosch123> which only contains stuff to make it compile, and changing some default settings
21:47:08 <frosch123> so, it's basically an sdl port, while porting the games was kind of trivial .)
21:48:08 <planetmaker> yes, surprisingly small
21:49:21 <frosch123> haha, i love the user reviews: 1/3 is 5 starts, 1/4 is 1 star; hardly intermediate ratings :p
21:49:44 <frosch123> either it's great, or it is unplayable because of being too small :p
21:50:10 <Linkandzelda> is there any reason why my company is worth £1 and my freinds is worth £146,000
21:50:22 <Linkandzelda> yet we both make profits and have been playing the same amount of time
21:50:27 <Linkandzelda> in a multiplay game
21:50:56 <Rubidium> your cash + vehicle value - loan is less than 0
21:51:06 <Linkandzelda> i see
21:51:10 <Rubidium> the cash + vehicle value - loan of your friend is 146.000
21:51:12 <frosch123> £1 value is the minmum, it cannot go negativ
21:51:30 <Linkandzelda> i have 5 trains he has 10
21:51:41 <Linkandzelda> i have 160,000 loan he has 180,000
21:51:51 <Linkandzelda> it just seems like the difference cant be so great lol
21:52:45 <Alberth> he has twice the number of trains that you have atm
21:53:06 <Rubidium> well, assume you have 160.000 worth of trains, then your friend has twice that. 160.000 - 160.000 = 0, 320.000 - 180.000 - 140.000
21:53:12 <planetmaker> an engine is 20k + wagons
21:53:28 <Rubidium> the last - should've been an =
21:53:49 <Linkandzelda> hmmm i seeee
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21:59:07 <planetmaker> good night
21:59:17 <andythenorth> 2 tile rivers might be....good?
22:04:32 <Elukka> larger, wider rivers would be lovely
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22:13:12 <appe> two months passed
22:13:19 <appe> one tron ottd track completed.
22:13:21 <appe> :-(
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22:15:31 <andythenorth> good night
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22:20:06 <frosch123> night
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22:20:11 <Linkandzelda> hmmmm
22:20:16 <Illegal_Alien> morning?
22:20:19 <Linkandzelda> if i buy some shares in a company
22:20:29 <Linkandzelda> do i recieve profits from them?
22:21:06 <Rubidium> heffer_: (RH#)705565 is FS#4571, RH#698959 looks messed up; for some reason it couldn't open the title game. Also "new_mode" is "MP_STATION" (which is a tile type, not a mode). Besides that I've got not much of a clue what might've gone wrong
22:22:19 <Rubidium> heffer_: in any case, I'd assume that the title game has been working so the real question is: what caused the load failure of the title game. However, the back trace gives no information about that whatsoever and the amount of reproduction data is quite small
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22:24:11 <Terkhen> good night
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22:32:20 <Rubidium> Linkandzelda: no, but if the other company's value rises you can sell the shares at a higher price making a nice profit
22:32:32 <__ln__> appe: url?
22:32:37 <Linkandzelda> i hought that was the case, thanks
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22:52:17 <appe> :
22:52:29 <appe> __ln__: not yet.
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23:11:53 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:28:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23452 /trunk/src/script/api/ (script_station.cpp script_station.hpp): -Codechange: document instead of writing to stderr that ScriptStation::GetCoverageRadius doesn't work for STATION_AIRPORT
23:28:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23453 /trunk/src/script/api/ (ai/ai_station.hpp.sq script_station.cpp script_station.hpp): -Add: [NoAI] AIStation.GetStationCoverageRadius(StationID)
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