IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-12-07
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01:12:54 <lightningchicken> hi
01:17:41 <lightningchicken> hi
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03:18:06 <Lachie> afternoon.
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03:30:26 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that may as well describe the state i am in :p
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06:06:20 <planetmaker> moin
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06:35:31 <Lachie> morning.
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06:45:11 <Lachie> not even sure of the technical correctness of writing a GRF in this fashion, but I care not.
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07:12:08 <appe> morning, people
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07:38:17 <planetmaker> Lachie, the only important thing is, is that the resulting NewGRF is technically correct
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09:01:32 <Lachie> planetmaker: quite sure it will be. I'm just giving myself a whole lot of extra work by creating the code for *everything*, regardless of whether or not it's been drawn yet. Can be commented out and left for later.
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10:07:29 <__ln__> anyway, the Berlin Wall is in bad condition, largely missing... maybe they could apply EU funding to build a shiny new wall that is stronger and higher.
10:08:48 <appe> auuu
10:08:49 <appe> tooo
10:08:51 <appe> baahn
10:09:44 <lugo> grauer streifen grüner rand
10:11:36 <lugo> weisse streifen grüner rand actually %)
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10:20:22 <Uppy> evening all. Can someone tell me how i deliver goods?
10:20:54 <Yexo> any type of cargo of specially the "goods" cargo?
10:21:10 <Uppy> i have a oil factory that makes goods
10:21:16 <Uppy> but i dont know where i send them
10:21:18 <Uppy> after that
10:21:22 <Yexo> to a big enough town
10:21:35 <Uppy> how big does it need to be
10:21:53 <Yexo> no specific amount, it needs a few "big" buildings that'll accept goods
10:22:00 <planetmaker> depends on the houses. Check out with the station build tool
10:22:06 <planetmaker> it tells you where it accepts goods
10:22:08 <Yexo> open the station building tool, hover over the center of a city and see if it accepts goods
10:22:37 <Uppy> damn
10:22:41 <Uppy> will having a mail route
10:22:45 <Uppy> improve a town
10:23:23 <Yexo> having up to 5 serviced stations in a town will help it grow
10:23:37 <Yexo> doesn't matter what type of cargo, as long as there is a vehicle at those stations at least every 50 days
10:24:11 <Uppy> ive got one town
10:24:16 <Uppy> with a port that recives
10:24:17 <Uppy> oil
10:24:24 <Uppy> does that work towards improving the town
10:25:14 <Yexo> if the port is close enough to the city center, yes
10:25:28 <Yexo> see
10:27:03 <Uppy> 5 different places! Yipes
10:33:27 <Uppy> Hmm think ive got it working
10:33:28 <Uppy> thanks
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10:36:41 <Sleepingcap> Ello, do players use this chat to find people to play Open TTD with? Like via hamachi or such?
10:38:21 <planetmaker> seldom. Best way is to just join servers and see whether you like those
10:38:40 <planetmaker> But of course you can ask :-)
10:39:36 <planetmaker> But of course it happens, especially if people get excited about a new feature or NewGRF Which they want to test jointly :-)
10:42:18 <planetmaker> and esp. over in the German community people use the forum to agree on a common time to play jointly
10:51:50 <Sleepingcap> join servers? Where would I see any kind of a server list
10:52:34 <planetmaker> take a guess
10:52:54 <Elukka> multiplayer menu, make sure you have internet and not lan selected
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11:09:57 <peter1138> odd
11:10:06 <peter1138> when QC is about marten & padma, it's early
11:10:16 <peter1138> when it's about AIs taking over the world...
11:10:16 <planetmaker> wasn't early really
11:10:23 <peter1138> well
11:10:28 <peter1138> not early, but not late :)
11:10:32 <planetmaker> :-)
11:10:50 <planetmaker> it used to show up at midnight local time East Coast or so
11:10:56 <peter1138> it's a bit crazy that he doesn't have a few days worth drawn ahead of time
11:11:24 <planetmaker> one would think so. But nearly no web comic I know does so
11:11:43 <peter1138> userfriendly did, but that stopped ages ago
11:11:57 <peter1138> it's been reruns for years, heh
11:14:11 <planetmaker> I guess I didn't read it all
11:15:01 <peter1138> hmm?
11:16:27 <planetmaker> the userfriendly
11:16:35 <planetmaker> I barely read that
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11:17:47 <peter1138> i used to, back in 2000
11:22:03 <peter1138> basically before it went all commercial, heh
11:40:32 <dihedral> hello
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12:58:29 <andythenorth> so..NoGo shouldn't (imho) be able to adjust newgrf vehicle climate availability or intro dates (messy nightmare)
12:58:43 <andythenorth> but NoGo might want a hook to a 'buy new vehicle' event
12:58:58 <andythenorth> and the ability to allow, or deny - with a message
12:59:36 <andythenorth> further, maybe a patch for depots that would gray out vehicles that NoGo won't let you buy (sprite recolor)
13:02:43 <peter1138> hm
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14:18:12 <Belugas> hello
14:20:07 <Belugas> snow flakes this morning. would not stay. luckily :)
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14:54:22 <RetiredNavyVet> anyone know if CargoDist for 1.1.4 is available and where?
14:55:01 <planetmaker> That makes no sense
14:55:17 <planetmaker> an 1.1.4 with cargodist wouldn't be an 1.1.4.
14:55:32 <planetmaker> Thus only the usual builds are available from the usual places
14:55:47 <RetiredNavyVet> thought CargoDist was a mod for OpenTTD?
14:55:51 <planetmaker> it is.
14:56:03 <planetmaker> But it makes no sense to apply a game-changing mod to a stable version
14:56:25 <planetmaker> It's then incompatible. Thus no point to apply it to a stable version
14:56:33 <planetmaker> And... patches are always _source code_ patches
14:56:46 <planetmaker> in our community
14:57:03 <planetmaker> thus I advise you to visit the cargodist thread and look for a link to binaries
14:57:06 <RetiredNavyVet> hmm, thanks...still learning the game; saw it mention in a video...
14:57:54 <planetmaker> well, yes, cargodist works. But patches just as well can be built to a development version of OpenTTD
14:58:26 <planetmaker> <-- has some cargodist version
14:58:36 <RetiredNavyVet> thanks
14:59:02 <planetmaker> it's a full OpenTTD, thus just unzip it into a separate dir
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14:59:14 <planetmaker> No need to overwrite your 1.1.4 which you might have elsewhere
14:59:24 <planetmaker> you can use both versions along eachother
14:59:43 <RetiredNavyVet> nice; looking at some of the AI's now...not sure if I need one or not
14:59:55 <planetmaker> depends what you want ;-)
15:00:18 <RetiredNavyVet> well, no cheating or other advantages thats for sure
15:02:17 <planetmaker> None of the AI can do that
15:03:18 <RetiredNavyVet> I want to keep the game vanilla but would no object to good enhancements that don't significantly change the gameplay
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15:04:31 <planetmaker> <shameless plug>You can try OpenGFX+ Industries and OpenGFX+ Trains and OpenGFX+ Road vehicles. Maybe FISH and av8 NewGRFs
15:04:38 <planetmaker> </shameless plug>
15:04:42 <Yexo> basically all of OpenGFX+
15:04:47 <planetmaker> :-)
15:05:03 <RetiredNavyVet> those are grahic sets?
15:05:09 <planetmaker> yeah, don't forget the airports... though you might be able to use them only with nightlies
15:05:11 <planetmaker> yes
15:05:27 <Yexo> note that "graphic sets" change more than only graphics
15:05:29 <planetmaker> grf means graphics ressource file. They can change way more than graphics
15:05:45 <Yexo> but in the case of OpenGFX+ those other changes are minor and just general gameplay improvements
15:05:57 <planetmaker> The mentioned ones e.g. allow you to choose the indutries to play with and give your vehicles refit capabilities
15:06:42 <RetiredNavyVet> gald I found OpenTTD!
15:06:48 <planetmaker> The OpenGFX+ goal is to "iron out" those edges which base sets can hardly overcome without changing the game significantly
15:08:07 <RetiredNavyVet> wow, tons of them...have some reading to do :)
15:08:57 <planetmaker> yes. Many vehicle sets give you 'realistic' vehicles
15:09:25 <Elukka> that cargodist version is really old
15:09:29 <Elukka> i think there's a more recent one in the thread
15:09:59 <RetiredNavyVet> found a 1.1.3 version of it
15:10:13 <Elukka> yup, here's a newer one
15:10:13 <Elukka>
15:11:15 <Elukka>
15:11:23 <RetiredNavyVet> ty
15:11:24 <Elukka> okay there's probably an even newer one there
15:13:58 <peter1138>
15:14:01 <peter1138> ^ night mode!
15:15:00 <peter1138> pretty useless for play though :)
15:18:07 <Elukka> ha
15:19:24 <RetiredNavyVet> looks like Minecraft, Skyrim, and Skyward Sword won't beet getting much play time X)
15:19:29 <RetiredNavyVet> ...from me
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15:35:08 <RetiredNavyVet> hmmm, what year does the game "end"?
15:35:41 <glx> there's no real end, but you get engame screen in 2050
15:35:55 <glx> (or something near that)
15:36:11 <RetiredNavyVet> ty; man, keep running out of moeny early :( fun though!
15:37:07 <glx> coal lines are money maker
15:37:11 <RetiredNavyVet> does installed content automatically update?
15:37:19 <RetiredNavyVet> ...e.g. FISH
15:37:36 <glx> no you need to update them
15:38:01 <RetiredNavyVet> tried starting with airplanes...nope; will try coal mines next :)
15:38:24 <RetiredNavyVet> efficient use of rail lines is gonna take a bit to figure out, not to mention signals X)
15:38:48 <glx> you can start with one track per train
15:38:58 <glx> then learn signals :)
15:41:11 <Elukka> when you do start playing around with signals, ignore all other types besides path signals
15:41:29 <RetiredNavyVet> thanks
15:41:41 <Elukka> they're easier and better than normal ones, really the different types only have niche uses you might care about much later
15:41:56 <RetiredNavyVet> have been watching some YT vids...I have much to learn
15:41:56 <glx> indeed, and there's only one rule to remember with path signal: place them only where a train can safely wait
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15:42:29 <RetiredNavyVet> so I don't need signals all the way down a track as I see in some videos?
15:43:29 <glx> that's for really complex networks :)
15:44:52 <glx> you can always put block signals on long lines to allow more trains on them
15:45:18 <RetiredNavyVet> ahhhh, thats probably what I'm seeing...makes sense
15:47:06 <RetiredNavyVet> woot, big UI...i can read the screens!
15:47:45 <glx> characters are too small ?
15:48:21 <RetiredNavyVet> with the default options some of the text is hard to read for me
15:48:48 <glx>
15:49:38 <RetiredNavyVet> oooh, ty!
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15:59:05 <RetiredNavyVet> added OpenGFX+ Trains but don't see them in the available trains list; the mod is active
15:59:24 <RetiredNavyVet> ...or do others become available as time goes by?
16:00:44 <planetmaker> RetiredNavyVet, the trains don't look different. The wagons might. They will allow to refit to different cargos
16:00:58 <planetmaker> you didn't want changes, did you? :-)
16:01:24 <RetiredNavyVet> ty; some new art is good :)
16:01:28 <planetmaker> e.g. passenger wagons will match the engine they're attached to for the multiple units
16:01:36 <RetiredNavyVet> ahhh, I see
16:01:47 <planetmaker> you'll have better cargo sprites
16:01:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23442 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Fix [FS#4511]: document that some video card drivers have trouble going to 8bpp mode
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16:25:44 <RetiredNavyVet> hmm, is it better to start by getting close cities linked by buses, or jump into trains between resources?
16:26:51 <RetiredNavyVet> I'm playing on a 256*256 map at medium difficulty to learn the rules :)
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16:51:37 <Sacro> the only rule is there are no rules
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17:33:50 <frosch123> hmm, my internet provider offers me more for less money... do i trust him?
17:34:08 <SpComb> with a 36 month contract?
17:34:31 <planetmaker> frosch123: the real question is: do you need it?
17:34:38 <planetmaker> does it matter?
17:34:44 <frosch123> 24 months, but i would not care about that
17:35:18 * planetmaker got like all telephone stuff he needs, including mobile for 20€ / month
17:35:36 <frosch123> yeah, that's about the offer i got now :p
17:36:21 <planetmaker> :-)
17:36:27 <__ln__> what kind of speeds are available for that price?
17:36:37 <planetmaker> 2MBit is what I got
17:36:41 <planetmaker> suffices for me
17:37:10 <frosch123> internet flat 7200 kBit/s; phone + mobile with a limit on the time per month (which i will never reach)
17:37:21 <SpComb> limit?
17:37:28 <frosch123> 100 minutes mobile/phone
17:37:41 <frosch123> i think i never manager to make more than 30 minutes in a month :p
17:37:57 <planetmaker> sounds like a deal I'd accept then, if you can live with 24 months
17:38:03 <planetmaker> which provider?
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17:38:14 * SpComb did 21 minutes of talk time over the three summer months
17:38:25 <SpComb> but my contract doesn't include any free hours
17:38:27 <frosch123> well, in the first 24 month it is even only 10€/month, and i get a new cellphone
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17:38:32 <SpComb> it's just 0.069€/min
17:38:33 <frosch123> planetmaker: 1&1 like before
17:38:47 * __ln__ pays 36,90€/month for 24Mbit ADSL (admittedly the actual speed is ~14Mb/s due to long wires)
17:38:51 <planetmaker> right. That's why it's very similar to what I have :-P
17:40:04 <planetmaker> I guess they're really only interested in you staying with them for 24 more months
17:42:49 <planetmaker> and important might be: it's the same provider. Thus nothing can go wrong for the transition. Or so one should think...
17:51:31 <frosch123> ah, i only get the cellphone if i pay 20 € from the beginning
17:52:48 <__ln__> do DSL subscriptions have daily/monthly gigabyte limits?
17:53:00 <frosch123> oh, and the internet has a limit of 500MB/month :o
17:54:12 <frosch123> i will clearly hit that limit
17:55:08 <__ln__> that's the mobile limit?
17:55:30 <frosch123> no, normal internet, not mobile
17:55:50 <__ln__> wtf, 500MB?? do they mean GB?
17:56:10 <__ln__> or 500MB/day?
17:56:23 <frosch123> the advertisement said unlimited, the details say 500MB/month
17:56:39 <frosch123> then 64 kBit/s, i.e. no internet at all :p
17:57:21 <frosch123> hmm, some other document says, it's the mobile internet limit
17:58:45 <frosch123> yawn... these documents are quite inconsistent :p
18:01:11 <frosch123> oh, i guess my assumptions were totally wrong from the beginning. it seems to be only a mobile thingie, no normal internet at all. so it is an add-on, no replacement :o
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18:02:26 <frosch123> yeah, with that everything makes sense; though it is no longer interesting for me :p
18:05:15 <planetmaker> he :-)
18:05:40 * planetmaker -> away for evening. See you tomorrow or (much) later
18:15:47 <Terkhen> hello
18:17:23 <andythenorth> hola
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18:21:47 <Arie-> I have an appointment in 10 minutes so no time to look for svn changes or on flyspray
18:22:08 <Arie-> but in r23440
18:22:16 <Arie-> while in the scenario editor
18:22:53 <Arie-> i had a part of sea water, and than a ramp north east and than a canal northeast
18:23:25 <Arie-> while building a lock openttd crashes
18:23:49 <Arie-> *building a lock on the ramp
18:23:51 <Arie-> bye
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18:24:27 <andythenorth> locks :P
18:24:49 <andythenorth> unrelated:
18:24:55 <andythenorth> bbl
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18:25:04 <frosch123> yeah, building locks in se crashes :p
18:25:48 <frosch123> ah, it tries to count the lock for infrastructure numbers
18:25:58 <frosch123> but in se it is not owned by a company
18:41:45 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23443 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23413): Building of locks in SE failed.
18:45:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23444 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/urdu.txt:
18:45:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:06 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: urdu - 92 changes by haider
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19:06:21 <andythenorth> ho
19:06:25 <andythenorth> seems my site is back up
19:06:25 <andythenorth>
19:06:35 <andythenorth> how interestink
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19:42:50 <nicfer> hi
19:43:49 <Alberth> ni
19:44:02 <nicfer> how can I checkout an old openttd svn revision?
19:44:26 <Alberth> checkout can take a -r REV option
19:44:53 <nicfer> svn checkout svn:// -r 11111
19:44:57 <nicfer> like that?
19:45:06 <nicfer> being 11111 the wanted rev
19:45:31 <Alberth> usually options are before the arguments, so svn checkout -r 11111 svn://
19:46:00 <Alberth> or if you already have a working copy, you can run svn update -r xyz
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19:47:03 <nicfer> I'm trying to compile this patch for windows
19:47:42 <Alberth> 2009 :)
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19:59:17 <Belugas> lol... a patch in grf format!!! that was a good one :D Digging may give interesting results
20:01:17 <nicfer> I was trying to make a binary out of that last diff but I got a weird error
20:01:24 <nicfer> while compiling
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20:02:50 <Alberth> c++ compilers also change over time :)
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20:09:43 <nicfer> changing topic, I'm trying to make a newgrf that moves monorail trains to maglev (or better viceversa, since I hate maglev graphics), tweaks some trains speed, capacity and smaller things, and maybe adds some new MUs
20:11:15 <nicfer> the question is, how can I make that without having to define sprites in nml? (I'm going to reuse sprites for them for now)
20:20:20 <nicfer> or is there an specific channel for graphics?
20:21:40 <frosch123> try defining monorail/maglev compatible to each other
20:21:56 <Alberth> in the world, I am quite sure some channels are used for discussing graphics as sole topics :)
20:22:06 <Alberth> but newgrfs can also be discussed here :)
20:26:59 <Belugas> definitively going along with frosch123 on the properties
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20:27:55 <nicfer> well, I don't know if there's already a newgrf that does such things
20:28:33 <Alberth> euhm, weren't you "..I'm trying to make a newgrf.." ?
20:29:06 <frosch123> i would expect there is some grf which changes the default maglev engines into monorail engines
20:29:18 <frosch123> railtype newgrfs are newer though, so there is not much around
20:32:45 <Belugas> you have some documentation with you on nml, nicfer?
20:33:28 <Belugas> or you WANT TO make a grf and are in fact in the very early stages, i.e.: wishing to?
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20:35:32 <nicfer> I was trying to make one since most of the grfs that do similar things have too much variety on trains and most of them are too redundant
20:35:46 <nicfer> and also wanted to learn some nml
20:36:09 <Belugas> <-- might help a lot
20:37:41 <nicfer> can I make a newgrf without graphics in nml? (only changing properties)
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20:38:08 <Hirundo> nicfer: Yes, that's possible
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20:42:13 <nicfer> speaking better, can I define instead of a new train modify an existing one?
20:42:47 <Hirundo> Yes, you can do that by providing the ID of the existing train
20:43:05 <Hirundo> item(FEAT_TRAINS, your_name, <id>)
20:43:41 <Hirundo> IDs are located here:
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21:01:25 <Wolf01> evening
21:01:41 <Alberth> evenink Wolf01
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21:02:40 <Belugas> sir Wolf01 :)
21:05:10 <andythenorth> efening
21:09:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23445 /trunk/known-bugs.txt: -Fix [FS#4715]: document behaviour with aircraft/ships poking outside of the depot before getting hidden
21:10:12 <andythenorth> ^ they're just cautious :P
21:10:32 <Wolf01> they should duck
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21:20:26 * andythenorth plays the game
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21:33:53 <andythenorth> with YAIM, ships are definitely ftw
21:34:52 <frosch123> also with canals? or only with sea/rivers?
21:35:33 <andythenorth> mostly sea / rivers
21:35:39 <andythenorth> I can't afford to build locks :P
21:36:02 <andythenorth> even with my new 'improved' canal costs, they're still terrifyingly expensive :P
21:36:21 <frosch123> don't locks have a separate cost multiplier?
21:38:46 <andythenorth> yup
21:38:49 <andythenorth> I fixed them good :P
21:39:12 <andythenorth> but it's early in my game, and I'm playing 'mountainous'
21:39:49 <andythenorth> and I have to use a lot of extra canal tiles because I can't overbuild rapids :P
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21:45:25 <Arie-> sorry for my kind of rude bugreport earlier this evening regarding locks
21:45:34 <Arie-> but I see a commit three hours ago
21:45:39 <Arie-> so I guess it's been fixed
21:48:58 <frosch123> night
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21:54:38 <nicfer> so, I've starting my first grf by improving the 'Dash' DMU
21:55:12 <nicfer> now it has a max speed of 144 km/h and is available in 1971
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21:58:42 <nicfer> now, how are modified wagons?
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21:59:22 <Eddi|zuHause> depends
22:01:14 <nicfer> I want to make passenger ones powered for MUs
22:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> there's a callback for that
22:07:19 <andythenorth> hmm
22:07:22 <andythenorth> my trams aren't loading
22:07:57 <andythenorth> wonder why
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22:10:26 <andythenorth> hmm
22:10:31 <andythenorth> loading speed wasn't set :P
22:11:31 <andythenorth> I didn't know it had to be set, I thought it defaulted to 5
22:11:55 <andythenorth> prop 07 RVs - " The default is 5 for trains and road vehicles"
22:12:36 <andythenorth> perhaps trams aren't treated as road vehicles in this context
22:13:46 <Yexo> andythenorth: there is only a default for "known" ids
22:13:54 <Yexo> as soon as you go over the default ids there are no defaults at all
22:13:57 <andythenorth> ah
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22:23:40 <andythenorth> shame dock sprites can't show cargo waiting
22:29:10 <Terkhen> good night
22:29:47 <nicfer> I can't find the callback to set powered wagons for MUs
22:42:22 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
22:43:15 <nicfer> better said, I need to make passenger carriages work as powered for MUs
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23:43:00 <Sacro> Pass Uckfield 5E71 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0003
23:43:00 <Sacro> 0006 0006 London Bridge 2Y77 WTT SN 5 Caterham 0006 0006½
23:43:00 <Sacro> Pass London Victoria 2L74 WTT SN 5 Oxted Pass 0012
23:43:00 <Sacro> 0017 0016½ London Victoria 2P51 WTT SN 5 Tattenham Corner 0017 0017
23:43:00 <Sacro> Pass East Grinstead 5L70 WTT SN London Victoria Pass 0019
23:43:03 <Sacro> Pass Tattenham Corner 5G49 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0021
23:43:05 <Sacro> Pass Tonbridge 5S47 WTT SN Streatham Hill Shed Pass 0023
23:43:08 <Sacro> Pass London Victoria 1H66 WTT SN Worthing Pass 0026
23:43:10 <Sacro> Pass Caterham 5G05 WTT SN Selhurst T&r.s.m.d Pass 0027
23:43:13 <Sacro> Pass London Bridge 2T79 WTT FC 4 Three Bridges Pass 0029½
23:43:20 <__ln__> Sacro: you're doing it wrong
23:43:42 <Sacro> whoops :D
23:43:53 <Sacro> also, I hear yogscast has taken the site down
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23:45:15 <TrueBrain> Sacro: just lies, no worries :)
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23:58:17 <TrueBrain> owh, lol, it seems Yogscast really is claiming they brought down our website; I guess I should stop fiddling with it before they come up with more farytails :D
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23:59:53 <TrueBrain> @calc 250000 / 60 / 60
23:59:53 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 69.4444444444
23:59:59 <TrueBrain> @calc 25000 / 60 / 60
23:59:59 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 6.94444444444