IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-27
00:02:15 <Wolf01> 'night
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00:20:53 <Eddi|zuHause> the AI debug window could do with automatic line breaks...
00:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> or a horizontal scrollbar
00:21:36 <TrueBrain> hehe
00:21:41 <TrueBrain> or don't put too long of a text? :D
00:21:46 <TrueBrain> no, you are right, it needs love :)
00:24:23 <Eddi|zuHause> my set handling needs some love too
00:27:20 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [misc] String too long for destination buffer
00:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause> man... if i remove the debug output, the script is totally fast suddenly :p
00:32:08 <Eddi|zuHause> so... script now runs without crashing
00:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, the output is all wrong...
00:33:00 <TrueBrain> lol :D
00:34:52 <Eddi|zuHause> player can't click on GS-signs
00:35:40 <TrueBrain> nope
00:35:47 <TrueBrain> they are also transparent
00:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they look like town names
00:36:08 <TrueBrain> its pretty :D
00:36:16 <TrueBrain> but I think I also allow GS to make signs under OWNER_NONE
00:36:20 <TrueBrain> which players can click (and modify)
00:37:02 <Eddi|zuHause> random thought: if i place a sign with a town name, i could associate a scrollto-event to clicking that
00:37:29 <TrueBrain> sorry, I fail to parse what your random thought is ..
00:37:34 <TrueBrain> it is late and my english fails horribly :P
00:39:25 <Eddi|zuHause> assume i place a sign in town X: "Neighbour: Y"
00:39:59 <Eddi|zuHause> then the player clicks on "Y" and nothing happens. if i could associate an action with clicking a sign, i could make it "scrollto(Y)" or somesuch
00:41:15 <Eddi|zuHause> do we have multiline-signs yet?
00:41:46 <TrueBrain> I think that would be very hard to accomplish ;)
00:41:52 <frosch> signs are limits to like 20 chars, so what do you want with multiline? :p
00:41:53 <TrueBrain> and no, no multiline signs as far as I know :)
00:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause>,%201.%20Jan%201922_1.png <-- this looks a little not-right with so many signs :)
00:45:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (the values are still wrong, of course)
00:48:24 <TrueBrain> even double values
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01:03:05 <Eddi|zuHause> function cmp(x, y) { return (x>y)?1:(x==y)?0:-1; } <-- is there no default function for that?
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01:32:45 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: _cmp maybe
01:33:54 <glx> hmm no it's a meta function
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01:47:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the annoying part about "restart" is that it closes the debug window
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02:01:38 <Eddi|zuHause> soo... fixed the duplicates, now need to fix the algorithm :)
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02:13:03 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there are sporadic leftover black lines in x4 zoom
02:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> appears to be near foundations
02:15:17 <Eddi|zuHause> but not all foundations
02:24:28 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: on zoom out, the tiny town names have shadow, but the tiny signs don't
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02:58:17 * Eddi|zuHause WTFs on sanctuary...
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07:30:16 <Terkhen> good morning
08:17:17 <peter1138> 02:24 < Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: on zoom out, the tiny town names have shadow, but the tiny signs don't
08:17:25 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, they're manually drawn for towns
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08:34:11 <peter1138> sprite glitch in CETS! oh no
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08:45:55 <andythenorth> hmm
08:46:02 <andythenorth> how does one grf modify another? GRM?
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09:37:32 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23341 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23338): memory leak when converting rails
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10:25:41 <Alberth> Can any arctic guru please explain why my town is not growing?,%201961-01-20.sav (current trunk)
10:27:33 <Rubidium> argh...
10:28:24 <Rubidium> did 23326 reintroduce the snowline getting fetched incorrectly?
10:31:38 <Rubidium> pfew... just a missing snowline NewGRF
10:31:57 <Rubidium> Alberth: for me it is saying: food required in the town/city window
10:32:07 <Alberth> yes, and I send it food
10:33:27 <Rubidium> maybe TrueBrain knows ;)
10:34:10 <Alberth> ok, thanks :)
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10:37:46 <Rubidium> looks like a bug in the code; it seems to be only able to grow when the town is funded
10:41:41 <Alberth> I don't have that much money :p
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10:49:26 <andythenorth> hrmm
10:50:36 <Rubidium> Alberth:
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10:51:12 <Rubidium> you simply didn't deliver enough food, the ~4 billion tonnes it currently requires
10:51:26 <Wolf01> hello
10:52:05 <andythenorth> hi Wolf01
10:52:35 * andythenorth wonders what the point of all this stuff in HEQS is
10:52:41 <andythenorth> most of it is never used
10:52:52 <andythenorth> maybe I just make one mining truck called 'latest model'
10:52:59 <andythenorth> and it upgrades over time using cb36
10:53:22 <andythenorth> :P
10:53:27 <andythenorth> hmm
10:53:30 <andythenorth> same for trainsets
10:53:41 <andythenorth> one vehicle called 'most awesome train avaialable'
10:53:45 <andythenorth> auto-refits to anything
10:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: such a vehicle can't be autoreplaced
10:56:27 <andythenorth> doesn't need to be :P
10:56:46 <andythenorth> cb36 upgrades it to 'most awesome' stats whenever it goes to depot
10:57:44 <andythenorth> one vehicle for each transport type
10:58:02 <andythenorth> also features: maximum speed; running cost £0; buy cost £0
10:58:06 <andythenorth> it will be awesome
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11:04:07 <TrueBrain> lol @ patch from Rubidium ... oops :)
11:14:16 <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds... erm... boring :p
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11:23:36 <TWerkhoven> sounds like your just as well changing the introduction date of everything to whenever the game starts
11:31:08 <andythenorth> TWerkhoven: this way, there's less buy menu clutter
11:31:24 <andythenorth> also, we need something that sets up routes for you
11:31:27 <andythenorth> like an AI
11:31:57 <andythenorth> then you won't have to play the game at all
11:32:36 * andythenorth bbl
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11:42:54 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23342 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23300): for arctic and desert towns you were required to deliver more than 4 billion units, instead of one or more units
11:44:27 <peter1138> when do towns grow anyway?
11:44:40 <TrueBrain> click on it; it will now tell you :D
11:44:42 <peter1138> mine all say "Town is NOT growing"
11:44:53 <TrueBrain> without stations, there is only a 1/12th chance it is growing
11:45:09 <TrueBrain> (every month!)
11:45:31 <peter1138> and with stations?
11:46:27 <TrueBrain> then it grows always
11:46:33 <TrueBrain> (just at different rates)
11:46:40 <TrueBrain> (and given you supply food / water)
11:46:56 <TrueBrain> from 1 to 5 stations, every time the growth is higher
11:47:14 <peter1138> oh, silly me
11:47:20 <peter1138> i thought i had updated to 23342
11:47:27 <peter1138> but i hadn't yet :p
11:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: what's the debug level to show gamescript debug in console?
11:53:28 <TrueBrain> ai=
11:53:42 <TrueBrain> then it depends on the way you send the debug :)
11:53:45 <TrueBrain> ai=9 will show all
11:54:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i call GSLog.Info
11:54:18 <TrueBrain> check the manual for which level that is
11:54:22 <TrueBrain> but ai=9 will work always
12:00:07 <Rubidium> does anyone know of a (good) reason why, when removing signals, dragging without CTRL removes signals at the defined interval and dragging with CTRL removals all signals (until the next switch)?
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12:08:41 <andythenorth> Terkhen: you once split the refit gui for cargos and subtypes
12:08:46 <andythenorth> but it never shipped...why?
12:09:04 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ah, that explains why it was acting weird ...
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12:16:45 <Eddi|zuHause> it should rather remove all signals always
12:19:32 <fjb> Moin
12:20:10 <Alberth> moin
12:22:48 <peter1138> hysterical
12:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> bye
12:23:06 <Alberth> bye
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12:34:02 <andythenorth> hmm
12:34:14 <andythenorth> TE for articulated trucks has to be done as lies
12:34:32 <andythenorth> as none of the trailer weight is counted towards TE
12:36:30 <Terkhen> andythenorth: there were some problems, check the patch thread
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12:37:16 * andythenorth checks
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12:38:46 <andythenorth> Terkhen: the issues mostly seemed to be that we had an argument about the patch on irc :P
12:38:52 <andythenorth> resulting in no decision :P
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12:43:06 *** sets mode: +oov Rubidium Belugas Belugas
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12:44:09 <peter1138> what problems?
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12:45:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: problems with split refit, or problems with TE? I asked two questions :D
12:48:30 <peter1138> hmm
12:48:36 <peter1138> how many trailers are powered?
12:48:40 <Terkhen> I don't remember the issues :P
12:48:49 <andythenorth> for articulated RVs? no trailers are powered
12:48:54 <peter1138> ok
12:49:02 <andythenorth> they can't be powered :)
12:49:03 <peter1138> if they're not powered then there's no tractive effort
12:49:41 <andythenorth> it's me that's telling the lies
12:49:59 <andythenorth> I fake the TE for lead vehicle to simulate weight transfer from rear vehicle
12:50:23 <andythenorth> this leads to insanely high TE values in buy menu for an unladen vehicle
12:50:34 <peter1138> can you fake the weight instead?
12:50:42 <andythenorth> for the lead part?
12:50:44 <andythenorth> hmm
12:50:45 <peter1138> yes
12:50:47 <andythenorth> interesting idea
12:51:11 * andythenorth is not sure how trailer weights work
12:51:12 <peter1138> add to front, remove from rear
12:51:30 <andythenorth> so articulated parts ignore vehicle weight, but use cargo weight
12:51:33 <andythenorth> which seems odd
12:51:43 <peter1138> do they? hmm
12:52:09 <andythenorth> prop 14 (weight 1/4 tons) should be zero for trailing parts
12:52:26 <andythenorth> and I *think* that cargo weight is used, but I haven't tested
12:52:43 <andythenorth> I didn't read src for this
12:53:13 <andythenorth> anyway, I could solve it by faking TE differently for loaded, unloaded, and buy menu
12:53:15 <andythenorth> etc
12:53:47 <andythenorth> although I doubt anyone will ever notice the lies
12:54:18 <peter1138> ,.......,......./* Vehicle weight is not added for articulated parts. */
12:54:21 <peter1138> hmm
12:54:22 <peter1138> wonder why
12:54:40 <andythenorth> it does make for some interesting fakery when creating rvs
12:55:00 <andythenorth> if it could be fixed, a grf version bump would be the right time to do it... :P
12:55:15 <peter1138> seems it would make sense
12:55:32 <peter1138> doesn't need to be a bump
12:56:25 <andythenorth> I am kind of relying on the current broken behaviour :P
12:57:03 <andythenorth> if it's changed, HEQS will have...issues
12:57:07 <andythenorth> although if I'd followed the spec it wouldn't :P
12:57:37 <andythenorth> lots of non-zero values for props on trailing vehicles that should be zero
12:58:11 <andythenorth> planning to fix that though anyway
12:58:43 <peter1138> post in the newgrf tech forum?
12:58:55 <peter1138> "why is it like this, and can we change it"
12:58:59 <peter1138> seems to cause problems
12:59:07 <peter1138> can i don't know what it solved
13:00:32 <peter1138> -can
13:00:59 <andythenorth> Terkhen probably knows
13:01:26 <andythenorth> but maybe doesn't remember :)
13:02:27 <peter1138> i imagine it was somethign for trains
13:02:38 <peter1138> which got left in for rvs
13:04:11 <andythenorth> maybe Terkhen left notes here:
13:07:42 <Terkhen> I'm sorry, I'm a bit busy and I can't follow the discussion right now
13:07:45 <andythenorth> it appears to be that only first part of articulated RV has power, TE, weight to be consistent with trains
13:07:46 <Terkhen> what is the issue?
13:08:03 <andythenorth> Terkhen: archeology on why articulated RVs ignore weight etc
13:08:08 <andythenorth> for trailing parts
13:09:18 <andythenorth> also for TTDP consistency it seems
13:18:14 <Terkhen> consistency
13:18:37 <Terkhen> articulated parts for trains don't have it either
13:18:48 <Terkhen> there is a post by frosch at the original patch thread about that IIRC
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13:32:40 <peter1138> yes
13:32:45 <peter1138> i think they should too :p
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13:46:49 <andythenorth> quak
13:46:53 <andythenorth> it really is uncanny
13:46:57 <frosch123> moin
13:46:58 <andythenorth> he arrives whenever mentioned
13:47:30 <frosch123> you mean, i arrive whenever i have just missed something :p
13:47:50 * andythenorth waves at logs
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14:01:59 <andythenorth> hmm
14:02:17 <frosch123> andythenorth: the wiki says that articulated parts have neither weight, nor power nor te
14:02:21 <andythenorth> yup
14:02:27 <frosch123> you need rv wagons for that
14:02:37 <andythenorth> or I continue faking it
14:02:41 <andythenorth> but fake it better ;)
14:02:48 <frosch123> articulated parts should stay consistent between rv and trains
14:03:07 <andythenorth> I don't mind. I just don't fancy writing new code if it's going to be changed in ottd ;)
14:03:35 <andythenorth> to resolve the TE issue, I should probably put some cargo capacity on the lead vehicle
14:03:46 <andythenorth> and reduce the trailer
14:03:57 <andythenorth> it will look weird in the vehicle info window
14:04:19 <andythenorth> but better than faking TE
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14:05:32 <peter1138> could we give them weight/power/te?
14:05:50 <peter1138> either as a grfv8 thing, or with a vehicle prop
14:05:55 <peter1138> flag
14:06:39 <frosch123> sure you could
14:06:48 <peter1138> what problem does them not having weight/power/te solve? :)
14:06:55 <frosch123> but there is not much poiint in giving them power
14:07:11 <andythenorth> por quoi?
14:07:11 <frosch123> peter1138: purchase list for a start
14:07:55 <frosch123> anyway as long as te and power are first summed before doing the min, there is not much point in distributing power over several vehicles
14:08:29 <andythenorth> the workarounds are a little odd though
14:09:20 <frosch123> andythenorth: so you would prefer to set power and te like capacity in purchase list :p
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14:09:47 <andythenorth> meh
14:10:00 <andythenorth> everything I do seems to be an edge case anyway :P
14:10:22 <peter1138> :)
14:10:27 <andythenorth> for the trams, setting the capacity etc became bonkers
14:10:35 <peter1138> frosch123, the blitter fix causes other issues :(
14:10:42 <frosch123> :s
14:10:52 <andythenorth> I'm planning to extend 'refit to n vehicles' to more things in HEQS, so more bonkers
14:11:04 <peter1138> it's noticable on the autorail sprites when zoomed in
14:11:20 <peter1138> there's a black line at the 256th pixel
14:11:37 <peter1138> i had a fiddle but i can't seem to solve it :p
14:12:10 <frosch123> then change the transparency counter into a word?
14:12:59 <peter1138> what i don't get is why it works fine when its wider
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14:14:11 <frosch123> peter1138: i guess it only works for recolours sprites :p
14:14:30 <frosch123> the encoding stores 1 pixel with colour 0 between two transparent stretches
14:14:44 <frosch123> Blitter_8bppOptimized::Draw handles that only for BM_COLOUR_REMAP
14:14:54 <frosch123> while the other two just copy the 0
14:15:07 <peter1138> and the ship is recoloured
14:15:07 <peter1138> ok
14:16:04 <andythenorth> hmm
14:16:11 <andythenorth> why is my truck clipped in depot?
14:16:39 <andythenorth> >32px gets cropped?
14:19:55 * andythenorth considers playing a game
14:20:01 <peter1138> don't do it
14:20:25 <andythenorth> what are the downsides?
14:23:39 <Alberth> it wastes time, and you find bugs in the game
14:31:15 <andythenorth> ho
14:33:32 <peter1138> like industry smoke ;p
14:33:51 <andythenorth> yarp
14:34:05 <andythenorth> the other option is to write newgrf code
14:34:12 <andythenorth> then wonder why xyz isn't possible :P
14:39:19 <peter1138> gah, not making enough money :S
14:46:10 <frosch123> peter1138: <- any issues left?
14:51:16 <peter1138> by jove i think you've cracked it
14:51:58 <frosch123> by toutatis?
14:52:04 <peter1138> that works for me, in the two cases i'm looking at
14:52:09 <peter1138> dunno if there's any else
14:53:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23343 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix (r23332): Incorrect encoding of sprites with much transparency.
14:53:27 <TrueBrain> were those bugs always there btw?
14:53:37 <frosch123> yes
14:53:44 <TrueBrain> lol; funny that nobody ever noticed them? :)
14:53:48 <frosch123> there just were no sprites with more than 256 transparent pixels in a row
15:00:47 <peter1138> i so need yacd :S
15:01:01 <TrueBrain> we all do :P
15:10:07 <V453000> almost all :)
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15:12:40 * andythenorth needs yacd
15:12:51 * andythenorth needs to figure out why auto-refit doesn't work
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15:36:30 <andythenorth> hmmmh
15:36:36 <andythenorth> HEQS 1.5.0 is ready to go
15:36:41 <andythenorth> should I release it?
15:36:50 <andythenorth> I haven't tested it in a game...
15:37:54 <TrueBrain> test it first :D
15:38:11 <TrueBrain> else you will have a 1.5.1 soon ;)
15:38:19 <andythenorth> that's the usual pattern :P
15:38:24 <andythenorth> I don't really play the game though :P
15:49:16 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i capture stdout of an already running program?
15:49:36 <Eddi|zuHause> konsole is persistently refusing to my setting "unlimited" buffer
15:49:49 <Eddi|zuHause> +obey
15:51:50 <Eddi|zuHause> is "rm /proc/<...>/fd/1; ln file /proc/<...>/fd/1" a bad or a horrible idea?
15:52:32 <Eddi|zuHause> ln -s
15:52:58 <andythenorth> anyone want to play MP? With new HEQS, starting 1870-ish?
15:53:06 <andythenorth> NoGo or otherwise
15:54:40 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it refuses to do that
15:58:10 <Eddi|zuHause> seems the "common approach" is via gdb...
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16:42:22 <heffer> hey guys. i just got a bug report on the red hat bugzilla regarding ottd having ugly fonts when played in russian (i.e. kyrillic fonts)
16:42:35 <heffer> is this known and is there a workaround?
16:42:55 <Xaroth> I'd check the bugtracker for that
16:43:13 <Rubidium> heffer: I reckon that's the first font fontconfig returns
16:43:33 <Rubidium> so not much we can do about, except telling him to configure a better font
16:43:52 <heffer> Rubidium: probably. i'll look into that
16:43:57 <heffer> thanks for the pointer
16:45:52 <Rubidium> it might be that recent trunk is slightly better as it tries to use the fattest font it can find instead of the first
16:46:56 <Rubidium> r23279 to be precise
16:47:32 <heffer> okay i'll try running that
16:47:51 <Rubidium> it won't apply directly to trunk though
16:47:52 <Eddi|zuHause> $someone should look into implementing an ingame font picker...
16:48:42 <Eddi|zuHause> my town triangulation algorithm is now _almost_ correct :)
16:49:27 <Xaroth> thar, nogo2 running with a customized GameScript.
16:49:35 <Rubidium> although it amazes me that someone is having a problem with it just now
16:49:41 <heffer> but other than that OpenTTD is by far the coolest upstream project i've worked with so far as a packager
16:50:04 <heffer> kudos to the team for that :)
16:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> "coolest" wrt functionality or community?
16:50:57 <heffer> community
16:51:44 <heffer> no other community asked me about my opinion from a packager's point of view before making decisions
16:51:58 <heffer> and no other community has such great support :)
16:52:34 <heffer> and: no other project pings me shortly before releasing security updates, so i can be prepared :)
16:54:18 * Rubidium is amazed by the ancientness of the font detection... almost 4 years old already
16:54:40 <heffer> i admit it's mostly Rubidium but also Ammler, planetmaker and you, Eddi|zuHause, who is very helpful :)
16:56:19 <Rubidium> well thanks ;)
16:56:39 <Rubidium> you're one of the more sane downstreams as well ;)
16:58:09 <heffer> yay :)
17:00:25 <Xaroth> thar, and nogo1 now as well \o/
17:11:35 <andythenorth> hmm
17:11:39 <heffer> okay trunk doesn't fix the problem so far, although the buttons look more spacious
17:11:42 * andythenorth tries to understand FIRS
17:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :)
17:14:01 <Rubidium> then no significantly better font has been given by fontconfig, although "better" is quite subjective; not a comparision that I would be able to implement in a few lines
17:15:01 * andythenorth fails to understand FIRS
17:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "wtf did they do to my program?!?" :p
17:15:45 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: Sanctuary?
17:15:51 <Rubidium> (the musical)
17:16:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: right, i wanted to force myself through that...
17:16:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: but right now i meant andythenorth
17:17:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that's unfair ;)
17:20:08 <andythenorth> hmm
17:20:10 * andythenorth ponders
17:22:22 <andythenorth> maybe I need to write an industry set from scratch
17:33:52 <peter1138> lost interest in FIRS?
17:33:57 <heffer> seems that the cyrillic font problem was there before:
17:34:05 <andythenorth> peter1138: learning curve is too steep
17:34:23 <peter1138> playing it? hmm
17:34:28 <heffer> i'll just tell the guy to manually configure DejaVu, it looks a bit better (not that i'd be able to read it even then) :D
17:34:49 <andythenorth> developing it
17:36:21 <peter1138> arabic looks nice
17:36:26 <peter1138> can't read any of it of course
17:37:01 <peter1138> how many other games have arabic and hebrew translations?
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17:37:55 <Alberth> with proper right-to-left widgets :p
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17:42:19 <SpComb> how many players use it :p
17:43:52 <Alberth> left-to-right widgets are done in the same way, so all players of OpenTTD? :D
17:45:19 <peter1138> bah, docks on flat land :S
17:46:32 <Eddi|zuHause> urgently needed with rivers!
17:47:00 <peter1138> exactly
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17:50:02 <andythenorth> +1
17:50:21 <andythenorth> sprites would be forthcoming if needed...
17:50:46 <andythenorth> can't we just make rail stations available to ships? :P
17:51:52 <peter1138> does ttdpatch have flat docks?
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17:53:26 <frosch123> yes
17:53:44 <frosch123> but they block the canal
17:53:57 <frosch123> it might be nicer to have docks along the river, instead into it
17:54:12 <andythenorth> 1 tile dock
17:54:26 <andythenorth> use train stations to make it visually bigger
17:54:39 <andythenorth> no orientations needed
17:54:46 <andythenorth> multistop
17:55:00 <andythenorth> 4 stops, one per side
17:55:11 <andythenorth> stop only available if water that side
17:55:37 <peter1138> i think normal docks block the water anyway
17:55:55 <peter1138> but yes, docks alongside
17:55:59 <frosch123>
17:56:22 <frosch123> they can only be build if the direction is well defined
17:56:33 <frosch123> i.e. you cannot build them on corners as you select only one tile
17:57:03 <peter1138> 2004...
17:57:15 <Eddi|zuHause> an autorail-like placement could solve that
17:57:46 <frosch123> just select the orientation in the gui
17:57:53 <frosch123> like for all stuff
17:58:03 <peter1138> yes
17:58:08 <frosch123> or by subcoord on the tile
17:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> possible
17:58:41 <Eddi|zuHause> but the original game always autoplaced docks
17:59:03 * andythenorth wonders if there's an nml tutorial
17:59:16 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, on the nml wiki
17:59:32 <andythenorth> found it
18:00:36 <andythenorth> I need to remove nfo from my brain
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18:03:13 <LordAro> evening
18:05:05 <peter1138> hi
18:05:16 <andythenorth> maybe I need to educate my text editor about nml
18:05:28 <andythenorth> what's a string?
18:05:46 <peter1138> oh, my long tram was autoreplaced into a short tram. pom te pom
18:05:53 <andythenorth> peter1138: sorry
18:05:57 <andythenorth> I tried to fix that :(
18:06:04 <andythenorth> but auto-replace is under-educated
18:06:36 <andythenorth> what will nml do if I put quote marks in?
18:06:53 <andythenorth> around strings?
18:06:58 * andythenorth experiments
18:08:21 <Alberth> evenink LordAro
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18:08:57 <Alberth> sorry for scaring you so much :)
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18:11:04 <peter1138> also i need tunnels with curves
18:11:12 <peter1138> Celestar!
18:11:33 <andythenorth> so nml strings have to be all on one line
18:11:46 * andythenorth wonders if a pre-processor can be provided
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18:15:36 <Alberth> does "abc" "def" work ?
18:16:51 <andythenorth> Alberth: where would the : go?
18:17:36 * andythenorth ponders an nml -> nfo dictionary
18:17:43 <andythenorth> so 'item' = action 0?
18:18:00 <Alberth> nowhere, I was wondering whether a sequence of strings gets silently concatenated to one large string
18:18:29 <Alberth> could be a nice manual (nml for nfo users) :)
18:18:45 <andythenorth> so far I've tried about 5 times to learn nml
18:18:52 <andythenorth> I've failed every time :P
18:19:09 <andythenorth> if I keep failing, I lose the industry set :P
18:19:13 <Alberth> maybe you should ask questions to who that know
18:20:36 <Alberth> doing some small experiments could be helpful for you to understand how it works
18:20:38 <andythenorth> there's copious documentation :P
18:20:43 <andythenorth> it should be easy
18:21:07 <andythenorth> I'm trying BANDIT in nml
18:21:10 <Alberth> so the docs are wrong for you?
18:21:22 <Hirundo> andythenorth: you can use the '+' operator to concatenate strings
18:21:34 * andythenorth experiments
18:21:58 <andythenorth> hm
18:22:09 <andythenorth> is there anything I can do to tell nml to ignore newlines?
18:22:13 <andythenorth> in strings
18:22:42 <Hirundo> In lang/english.txt strings?
18:22:42 <Alberth> not much, but "abc" + \n "def" will work
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18:23:07 <peter1138> hmm, i guess i'll remove CETS
18:23:18 <peter1138> not really usable yet :)
18:23:27 <andythenorth> Hirundo: yes in that file
18:24:32 <Hirundo> In that file, 1 line = 1 string (like in OpenTTD's langfiles)
18:24:55 <Hirundo> Ofc, you can use preprocessor magic to change that
18:25:28 <Hirundo> Or perhaps NML could do some magic with backslashes at EOL
18:27:44 <Alberth> or do magic by deciding it is a continuation line if it starts with a space :p
18:29:38 <andythenorth> so 'graphics' = action 3?
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18:30:52 <Hirundo> andythenorth: yes, more or less
18:31:22 <andythenorth> spriteset seems straightforward, that's realsprites + (templating)
18:31:44 <andythenorth> spritegroup is action 2
18:32:50 <Hirundo> A graphics block may also cause outputting of at least actions 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, D or 10 IIRC
18:33:34 <andythenorth> hmm
18:33:40 <andythenorth> nml has templates for RVs
18:33:55 <andythenorth> which drive side are they coded for?
18:35:05 <Hirundo> I don't know. Does it matter?
18:35:09 <peter1138> it shouldn't matter
18:36:17 <frosch123> it matters if the vehicle is narrower than the lane and you do not want them to drive in the middle of it
18:36:53 <andythenorth> which is the correct side?
18:37:11 <andythenorth> given a choice of left or right, and one has to be chosen...
18:38:12 <Alberth> all gurus are afk I am afraid :p
18:38:43 <andythenorth> it's more of an ottd question than nml question
18:43:49 <frosch123> just don't draw small. vehicles
18:43:52 <frosch123> trucks are not small
18:44:42 <andythenorth> danmack has been drawing the trucks :P
18:44:49 <andythenorth> he wants them smaller than the default trucks
18:45:19 <frosch123> then make them drive in the middle of the lane
18:45:27 <frosch123> truck drivers do not care about such stuff :p
18:45:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23344 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
18:45:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: croatian - 8 changes by VoyagerOne
18:45:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: korean - 16 changes by junho2813
18:45:39 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 36 changes by matma6, xaxa
18:45:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 83 changes by Tucalipe
18:45:40 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: romanian - 25 changes by kkmic
18:45:44 <andythenorth> why does the size of the graphic affect where the game draws it? :o
18:46:30 <frosch123> it draws the sprite so it fits for vehicles with the width of the default vehicles
18:46:48 <frosch123> if you make smaller ones, you have to decide where your vehicle is relative to the original one
18:47:02 <frosch123> either align the left side, the right side, or center your vehicle inside the original one
18:48:03 <andythenorth> hmm
18:48:36 <andythenorth> that makes complete sense, but it's not how trams work
18:48:45 <andythenorth> works for trucks
18:50:07 <andythenorth> hmm
18:50:16 <andythenorth> maybe I can solve it
18:50:49 <andythenorth> probably can solve it
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19:04:23 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o planetmaker
19:05:18 <planetmaker> evening
19:06:10 <andythenorth> hola
19:08:45 * andythenorth can't persuade nml to build
19:09:50 <planetmaker> you're missing the quoted png file
19:10:02 <planetmaker> not an NML error ;-)
19:10:26 <andythenorth> hmm
19:10:27 <planetmaker> ./Makefile
19:10:36 <planetmaker> ./graphics/cabover_truck_test.png
19:10:41 <planetmaker> ./src/bandit.pnml
19:10:44 <planetmaker> like that?
19:10:55 <planetmaker> that's what is assumed
19:11:34 <andythenorth> \o/
19:11:35 <andythenorth> thank
19:11:36 <andythenorth> s
19:11:41 <planetmaker> welcome
19:13:28 <Xaroth> ooh, getting busy on the nogo servers
19:14:56 * andythenorth has a vehicle in the game via nml
19:16:22 <peter1138> woo
19:16:28 <andythenorth> t
19:19:41 <andythenorth> the nml graphics templates here:
19:19:45 <andythenorth> are the offsets available?
19:19:52 <andythenorth> or do they need providing?
19:20:36 <planetmaker> you can / need to provide the same graphics offsets as always
19:20:44 <planetmaker> But maybe you can use foobar's template as there
19:21:35 <andythenorth> let's see
19:21:49 <peter1138> why does the purchase menu sprite have all the blue?
19:21:49 <planetmaker> they're all quoted below as code in the example
19:22:32 <andythenorth> is there some magic with the xpos ?
19:22:46 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23345 /trunk/src/lang/polish.txt: -Fix: gender where no gender can exist
19:22:50 <planetmaker> that'd only have an effect, if you used NOCROP there
19:23:05 <planetmaker> which the template doesn't
19:23:17 <planetmaker> probably just to allow you wider sprites
19:23:46 <andythenorth> hmm
19:23:53 <andythenorth> now I have a truck, and it has graphics
19:23:55 <andythenorth> bonus
19:24:33 <andythenorth> giving it some hp and speed might be useful
19:24:36 <andythenorth> 1mph is slow
19:26:30 <andythenorth> can weight actually be specified in decimals of a ton?
19:26:37 <andythenorth> it's going to get rounded...
19:27:04 <Rubidium> depends on the vehicle I guess
19:27:38 <Rubidium> e.g. for RVs it's in quarters of tons
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19:27:50 <Rubidium> though for trains it would get rounded
19:27:55 <planetmaker> andythenorth: you can specify whatever fraction suits you. But it'll be rounded to suit the nfo granularity
19:28:24 <planetmaker> you should make sure you know which ton you talk about ;-)
19:28:31 <planetmaker> (and which hp :P )
19:28:45 <planetmaker>
19:29:04 <Rubidium> <- that is ofcourse solved by solving FS#4847 ;)
19:29:30 <planetmaker> :-( I know
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19:59:44 <planetmaker> hm, seems people had fun all the weekend in the Wendland ;-)
20:00:26 <andythenorth> "switches before items"
20:00:27 * andythenorth learns
20:01:24 <planetmaker> 1-2-3-0 ;-)
20:01:29 <planetmaker> and item=0 and switch=2
20:01:40 <planetmaker> and spriteset=1
20:01:52 <planetmaker> and ... the graphics block is part of the item block
20:02:03 <planetmaker> which is 3
20:06:40 <andythenorth> I have one articulated truck running around
20:07:09 <planetmaker> :-)
20:07:28 <planetmaker> knowing you, it'll soon require newgrf v8 ;-)
20:07:40 <andythenorth> I am hoping to persuade DanMacK to draw trucks
20:13:30 <andythenorth> shame the refit gui isn't split...
20:17:38 <Terkhen> solve the forgotten issues with it :P
20:18:56 <andythenorth> ship it and see what happens?
20:18:56 <andythenorth> :P
20:19:05 <andythenorth> empirical
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20:27:56 * planetmaker -> bed. Good night
20:29:12 <peter1138> but but
20:31:37 <andythenorth> maybe he got up early :P
20:32:58 <TrueBrain> or maybe he is just drunk beyond believe? :)
20:33:14 <planetmaker> nah, kids wake up VERY early and keep you VERY busy ;-)
20:33:18 <planetmaker> I just need my sleep ;-)
20:33:37 <TrueBrain> :P
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20:33:42 <TrueBrain> sleep well old man :)
20:33:44 <andythenorth> planetmaker: kids :P
20:33:49 * andythenorth knows about them
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20:40:10 <peter1138> hm
20:40:30 <peter1138> so action 3, feature 5, id 4
20:40:35 <peter1138> flat docks...
20:41:50 <peter1138> except they look crap
20:42:31 <andythenorth> pic?
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20:49:17 <andythenorth> Terkhen: first we have to solve not remembering the issues :P
20:49:24 <andythenorth> I could look in my logs
20:49:26 <andythenorth> meh
20:58:18 <Terkhen> :)
21:01:36 <andythenorth> designing a truck set is hard
21:02:07 <peter1138> < that one, andy
21:04:45 <andythenorth> peter1138: do they have to reuse existing sprites from base set?
21:06:11 <peter1138> no, the only 4 sprites are specified in the ... er... spec
21:06:32 <peter1138> -the+but
21:08:33 <andythenorth> spec change :P
21:09:07 <andythenorth> flat docks shouldn't encroach on the water, but be alongside it
21:09:53 <peter1138> why?
21:10:29 <andythenorth> don't want to demolish a river every time a dock is needed
21:10:43 <andythenorth> aslo....reality? :P
21:11:12 <peter1138> eek, dirty words
21:11:24 <andythenorth> no reality here! no!
21:12:07 <__ln__> did someone just say the r-word?!
21:12:14 <SpComb> there is no reality
21:12:40 <Terkhen> good night
21:12:47 <andythenorth> bye Terkhen
21:14:12 <andythenorth> hmm
21:14:34 <andythenorth> can I make a truck set that just *isn't* compatible with drive in stops?
21:14:40 <andythenorth> or do I have to spam the buy menu?
21:14:50 <andythenorth> - truck 'foo
21:14:53 <peter1138> it has a scroll bar ;p
21:14:55 <andythenorth> - truck 'foo' with trailer(s)
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21:29:07 * andythenorth wonders how many truck classes (sizes) are needed
21:29:16 <andythenorth> most people will just choose 'biggest', right?
21:30:25 <SpComb> even biggest
21:30:47 <z-MaTRiX> gwkki
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22:05:39 <__ln__> are purple trees a normal phenomenon on the soviet sector?
22:06:03 <andythenorth> in soviet russia, tree purples you
22:06:48 * andythenorth goes to bed
22:06:56 <andythenorth> in soviet russia, bed goes to andythenorth
22:06:59 <andythenorth> good night
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22:31:00 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:06:29 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> 1-2-3-0 ;-) <-- i have 0-1-2-3
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23:33:24 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- i think i have most of the quirks worked out. what's still missing is special handling for "outer" edges, so really remote cities won't get marked as neighbours
23:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> <- tiny test script
23:38:17 <Xaroth> wow, nice work
23:40:39 <Eddi|zuHause> now keep those bug reports coming :)
23:41:34 <Eddi|zuHause> (note: a 2048^2 map with many towns is probably too large for this unoptimized code)
23:42:52 <Xaroth> heh
23:44:52 <peter1138>
23:45:12 <peter1138> ^ uses delaunay
23:45:17 <peter1138> if you catch my drift
23:46:20 <peter1138> not that i'm suggesting a port to c++
23:46:27 <peter1138> much
23:51:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something's awfully wrong on this 2048^2 map....
23:52:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it assigns neighbours that are nowhere near each other
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