IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-23
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00:03:11 <Zuu> Wasn't there a website which had a graph over how much of the checked in source code that is written in different languages?
00:11:45 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure where they get "XML" from
00:12:45 <planetmaker> I miss the objective C
00:13:10 <planetmaker> but maybe that's "Other" ;-)
00:14:26 <planetmaker> and I should scroll
00:15:04 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: From the MSVC project files.
00:16:18 <michi_cc> And for the C entry I guess they count .h as C and not C++.
00:28:09 * peter1138 smirks at people discovering 4 year old features
00:29:14 <Eddi|zuHause> well... it IS a "hidden feature" :p
00:34:00 <peter1138> 24KB smaller than the last one
01:24:36 <Eddi|zuHause> the third time you can get it in 7kB!
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09:10:16 <lugo> in opengfx 0.3.4, when you set the bank chain to gold and diamonds, both have the same in color in the cargo payment rates diagram
09:10:32 <lugo> tested for tropic climate only yet; is that known?
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09:14:48 <planetmaker> assuming that minimap and cargo payment colour is the same
09:14:53 <peter1138> oh, opengfx+ industries
09:15:08 <planetmaker> yes. It's quite a bit of a difference :-)
09:25:15 <peter1138> hmm, right, i ought to fix that smallmap
09:25:53 <peter1138> river generation has created a 9x9 square lake :p
09:30:10 <peter1138> tgp really sucks for artic/tropic :(
09:30:48 * Celestar wonders whether vim triggers a BufRead event if it reads from stdin
09:30:54 <peter1138> oh wait, the snow line was set to 13. no wonder nothing much was above it
09:31:02 <peter1138> even so, it's still not great :S
09:31:38 <peter1138> and as i say that i get the best map ever
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10:04:28 <dihedral> killed an old nameserver yesterday at work
10:04:59 <dihedral> today we noticed that enough domains were still running over it due to someone simply having added iptables rules to forward port 53 to the current nameservers in use
10:10:48 <peter1138> how does refitting alter the number of articulated parts?
10:10:55 <peter1138> or is it a magic trick?
10:11:16 <planetmaker> use CB36 for length and don't draw all parts
10:14:04 <planetmaker> very much so, yes
10:14:05 <peter1138> 4x is... erm... silly but never mind
10:14:59 <planetmaker> maybe the max_zoomlevel should be a config file only option to allow continued use on low-memory devices?
10:24:22 <peter1138> hmm, where's that vehicle following code...
10:24:32 <peter1138> it only works on ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL for no reason :)
10:38:47 <peter1138> planetmaker, you're using the 32bpp blitter, right?
10:39:23 <planetmaker> at least currently
10:40:03 <peter1138> that alone requires 5x the spritecache size
10:40:28 <peter1138> old 8bpp -> ez 32bpp needs 105x spritecache o_O
10:40:30 <planetmaker> but setting it to 80 instead of 4 worked fine
10:40:38 <peter1138> except the max is 64 :)
10:40:56 <peter1138> 64 isn't enough if you have a load of newgrfs loaded
10:41:07 <peter1138> should be plenty in 8bpp though
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10:44:11 <andythenorth> why are we hiding? :o
10:44:58 <peter1138> i'm playing with FIRS
10:45:08 <peter1138> but i only linked two industries :p
10:45:25 * andythenorth will definitely hide in that case
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10:45:42 <planetmaker> not your doing, peter1138 ;-)
10:46:03 <planetmaker> I still have your patch, though ;-)
10:46:25 <peter1138> i think yaez works a bit better than the last variant
10:46:34 <peter1138> it's also... smaller
10:46:41 <andythenorth> you'll be able to see all the errors in FIRS :P
10:47:09 <peter1138> i should've grabbed newstations :S
10:47:34 <andythenorth> just add it to your game
10:48:20 <peter1138> but i'd have to ignore the big red warning
10:49:23 <peter1138> i could really break things
10:49:29 <peter1138> by changing TILE_SIZE to 64 :p
10:50:51 <peter1138> you'd get smoother movement, mind you
10:50:59 <peter1138> but all those tile layouts would be wrong
10:51:22 <peter1138> could be multiplied i guess
10:51:34 <andythenorth> peter1138: you *have* developer newgrf tools turned on right?
10:51:54 <peter1138> so you'd only notice a difference for slow moving vehicles... probably not worth it :D
10:52:06 <peter1138> andythenorth, yes, though i don't develop them these days
10:52:18 <peter1138> i don't have newstats installed :p
10:53:54 <andythenorth> we should change that message to 'with great power etc...'
10:56:54 <peter1138> i forgot to set up a bus route in one of the towns
10:58:54 <peter1138> the tree planter in arctic... has 12 slots but only 8 are usable
10:59:02 <peter1138> can they just be hidden?
11:00:53 <Xaroth> mega screenshots are indeed, mega...
11:01:03 <Xaroth> imagemagick is not giving me the love I need...
11:01:23 <Xaroth> takes half an hour to even begin doing something
11:02:10 <peter1138> heh, cool, a 200+ tile long river :)
11:03:02 <peter1138> oh, FISH introduction dates were never done :S
11:04:47 <peter1138> Tick 15214: GRF config changed
11:09:32 <peter1138> planetmaker, have you tried to build a ship?
11:09:38 <andythenorth> peter1138: FISH introduction dates definitely were done :)
11:09:41 <andythenorth> they were done wrong
11:09:48 <peter1138> andythenorth, 1870? :(
11:10:11 <andythenorth> I decided that for ships, moar > accuracy
11:10:22 <andythenorth> at least until I find a drawing slave
11:12:08 <peter1138> ok, what's good for 2 fishing grounds of 45t?
11:12:39 <planetmaker> peter1138: I guess the window could become _slightly_ smaller ;-)
11:13:06 <andythenorth> peter1138: depends on how far you need to go, and if you want to arse about with feeders
11:15:28 <peter1138> everything needs "testing"
11:17:51 <TrueBrain> right, time to write OpenDoom3, who wants to help? *me whistles 10 seconds* there, done! EPIC!
11:18:17 <TrueBrain> (Doom 3 source code is released, FYI :P)
11:18:34 <TrueBrain> just telling the others :P
11:24:06 <peter1138> now you just need 5+ years for someone to make some 32bpp artwork ;p
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12:27:19 <planetmaker> sweet :-) I'll give it a shot once gimp is finished building :-O
12:27:40 <peter1138> gimp: the reason gnome is
12:29:29 <peter1138> hmm, snappy name, really... GNU's Not Unix Image Manipulation Program Tool Kit
12:29:57 <planetmaker> yes... currently gtk builds...
12:30:36 <peter1138> hmm, the sprite aligner is wrong :)
12:35:45 <planetmaker> peter1138: maybe you should make a repo of it like tb did with nogo which could be compiled. It'd please the few remaining EZ people :-)
12:43:54 <MNIM> I was *this* far from accidentally posting my password here
13:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, if you post your password here, it'll be replaced with ******
13:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> it'll be displayed for you, because it's your password
13:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> but for us it's ******
13:13:23 <planetmaker> :-) you two read too much bash.org
13:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> haven't read that in ages
13:18:23 <peter1138> it is a bit of a classic that one
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13:35:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/action0properties.py", line 221, in ctt_list
13:35:59 <Yexo> remove "expression." from there
13:38:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23293 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make LoadScript/LoadFile non-static
13:38:37 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23294 /trunk/src/script/squirrel_helper.hpp: -Codechange: sq_pop in native callback is just a waste of CPU cycles, as the top is reset in all cases
13:39:38 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23295 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: put ImportLibrary in AIController (and document the parameters for NoAI docs)
13:42:24 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23296 /trunk/src/town.h: -Codechange: I found a fund building, but do I fund found buildings?
13:43:08 <Eddi|zuHause> how are you funding buildings if you haven't found them yet?
13:43:41 <TrueBrain> a valid question ;)
13:43:50 <TrueBrain> I just dislike to have to pay to found buildings :P
13:44:24 <Noldo> is founding buildings the process of making foundations for the buildings?
13:44:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (of course there's a huge difference between "found" and "founded")
13:44:38 <TrueBrain> I think it is a spotter who locates the buildings in a town
13:44:40 <TrueBrain> and says: FOUND ONE
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13:45:27 <Eddi|zuHause> in german we have a saying that translates to "you can't see the forest, because all the trees are in the way"
13:45:32 <planetmaker> it's easy to find a building in town, it's moderately difficult to fund one and somewhat near impossible to found one ;-)
13:45:43 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: the dutch have that one too
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13:54:02 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me of the first time i realized that "forest" and "trees" are something different in Transport Tycoon
13:54:23 <TrueBrain> a lot of trees doesnt make a forest :D
13:54:41 <Eddi|zuHause> these forests _really_ were hidden between all the trees :)
13:55:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i think i noticed because i couldn't remove some trees, while i could remove others
13:55:36 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: can't see the wood for the trees?
13:55:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: yes, if that's what you people say
13:55:51 <planetmaker> hey bro, be careful with the trees ;-)
13:57:46 <__ln__> finns have that too, both in finnish and swedish
13:58:16 <Eddi|zuHause> must be a _really old_ saying
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14:14:13 <peter1138> andythenorth doesn't though
14:14:57 <Rubidium> oh, andy wants enduring zabernism... poor andy
14:17:13 <andythenorth> I want EZ and a pixel editor in the game
14:17:30 <andythenorth> just hook it to a png library and grfcodec, we're all done
14:25:03 <peter1138> hmm, i wonder if i can use this 200+ tile long river :D
14:26:36 <peter1138> but the refinery is inland :(
14:26:43 <planetmaker> yes, rivers liketo have oil added to them ;-)
14:27:30 <planetmaker> especially the shell river which comes from lake aral and goes into the exxon sea
14:37:17 <peter1138> hmm, tooltip position is wrong
14:38:01 <peter1138> ah, cursor size. hmm.
14:44:22 <Belugas> we have our first snow fall! 5cm during the night, and we are expecting 2-4 more today
14:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> man you're glad!
14:45:13 <Eddi|zuHause> and you're 44 minutes late :p
14:47:51 <peter1138> hmm, still some broken bits :p
14:51:41 <andythenorth> rivers are never where you want them :P
14:51:56 <andythenorth> how about we try building towns and industries and crap near rivers?
14:57:27 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, not really glad, as you would guess ;) My son was delirious on his way to school. And the drivers on the road were so cautious (or stupid, which is quite the same sometimes) that it took me longer to get in, thus the late arrival
14:59:43 <Belugas> haaa... zoom out more levels :)
14:59:55 <TrueBrain> what? peter1138 made OpenTTD bug free? EPIC! :D
15:00:00 <Belugas> i though it was a zoom in
15:00:14 <Belugas> not disappointed, note :)
15:00:36 <Belugas> TrueBrain, he's practicing for work :D
15:04:15 <peter1138> ah, 4x 8bpp-debug :p
15:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause> looks like a bobby car on lego-roads :p
15:24:03 <andythenorth> peter1138: that's not a mishap, you clearly are using HEQS
15:25:06 <Eddi|zuHause> for the extra heavy passengers? :p
15:25:16 <Eddi|zuHause> must be in america :p
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15:26:22 <peter1138> that mask looks a bit shoddy around the edges :p
15:37:15 * andythenorth does that occasionally
15:37:49 <andythenorth> so....grfv8 should remove prop 1D trains (and equiv. other vehicle types)? Or not?
15:39:03 <peter1138> it would just add more code for no reason
15:39:22 * Belugas cannot understand the zoom in part...
15:39:30 * Belugas decides to go back to payment processing instead
15:39:44 * andythenorth goes back to making the internets
15:39:48 <peter1138> Belugas, it's sneaky. i changed the base tile size
15:40:08 <peter1138> (but not via TILE_SIZE, cos that would just mess everything up)
15:40:36 <peter1138> andythenorth, removing a property is a different kettle of fish from "removing" a callback, which is really just a case of not calling it
15:41:41 <andythenorth> kettles provide tea
15:44:17 <peter1138> everyone's busy reviewing nogo, maybe i should just sneak this in now ;p
15:48:55 <planetmaker> maybe it needs some zooming in onto the patch to find its effect
15:50:57 <peter1138> i left a little teaser on the screenshots forum ;)
15:51:05 <peter1138> (it's the dodgy image)
15:51:32 <Rubidium> peter1138: "zoomed in screenshot" does actually zoom out when zoomed in
15:53:46 <peter1138> ah it uses ZOOM_LVL_WORLD_SCREENSHOT for zoomed in... ok...
15:54:14 <Rubidium> the question is which zoom level the screenshot should be made in
15:55:27 <peter1138> i'm going for ZOOM_LVL_NORMAL
15:55:37 <peter1138> it does says zoomed in, after all
15:56:04 <peter1138> good call though, i've not tested any screenshots other than ^S
15:56:13 <peter1138> i didn't know zoomed in even existed, actually
15:57:45 <peter1138> hmm, giant screenshot is the right size
15:57:49 <peter1138> but it's in the wrong place
16:00:50 <peter1138> building docks on rivers is awkward
16:03:29 <peter1138> silly boat, you're going the wrong way
16:04:10 <Rubidium> hmm, one "big" problem with 4x zoom: glitches become so much more noticable
16:04:30 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23297 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp table/control_codes.h table/strgen_tables.h): -Add: {CARGO_TINY} (Rubidium)
16:05:05 <Rubidium> e.g. fence vs bridge pylon and signal vs bridge pylon
16:05:21 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23298 /trunk/ (19 files in 4 dirs): -Add: track statistics of all incoming and outgoing goods. Incoming based on TownEffect, outgoing based on CargoType (based on patch by Terkhen)
16:06:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23299 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.hpp ai_industry.hpp ai_town.hpp): -Codechange: remove silly comments from AI documentation
16:06:55 <Rubidium> and ship on aqueduct bridge head with a bridge over it
16:07:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23300 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Add: show on the GUI when a town grows and make a general framework to store goals of a town
16:08:36 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23301 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: remove changed strings from all languages and alter those we can
16:09:34 <Rubidium> must say signal states are much easier to distinguish though
16:09:37 <peter1138> that looks illy, yes
16:09:48 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23302 /trunk/src/ai/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Add: [NoAI] AITown::GetCargoGoal and AITown::GetGrowthRate to query statistics about a town regarding its growing
16:10:08 <peter1138> never used aqueducts. that issue is in trunk too, yes?
16:10:20 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23303 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Add: economy.fund_buildings, to disallow funding buildings
16:10:41 <Rubidium> peter1138: I guess it is; you didn't change the sprite sorting, did you?
16:11:16 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23304 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp: -Add: bump the savegame to start storing the new bits and pieces
16:13:41 <peter1138> i wonder if ships could be fixed a bit by drawing them as subsprites
16:14:24 <peter1138> such a huge bounding box :)
16:16:36 <planetmaker> I gave "you" another two screenshots, peter1138 ;-)
16:17:19 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23305 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_cargo.cpp: -Fix (r23298): warning about comparing different enums
16:22:16 <Rubidium> peter1138: enduring zabernism seems to work (I at least couldn't find a place that misbehaves)
16:22:37 <Rubidium> besides the "zoomed in" screenshot that might need renaming to "normal zoom" screenshot or so
16:23:26 <peter1138> i changed it so that it is zoomed in now
16:23:44 <peter1138> makes sense for if larger sprites are used. or something. hmm.
16:25:41 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23306 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_cargo.cpp ai_changelog.hpp): -Fix (r23302): forgot to mention AITownEffectList in the Changelog
16:29:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23307 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_cargo.cpp: -Revert (r23306): committed one file too many :s
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16:35:34 <planetmaker> can I conditionally skip the parameter of a string in a translation?
16:35:51 <planetmaker> i.e. not ouput the value "1"?
16:36:55 <planetmaker> {BLACK}Town grows every {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} day{P "" s} (funded)
16:37:08 <planetmaker> The town grows continuously
16:37:12 <planetmaker> The town grows daily
16:37:21 <planetmaker> The town grows every {COMMA} days
16:37:43 <TrueBrain> never considered those options :D
16:37:45 <TrueBrain> I kinda like them :)
16:37:57 <TrueBrain> but that would be a bad translation ;)
16:38:29 <TrueBrain> so change english.txt or translate 1 on 1
16:38:57 <Yexo> {BLACK}Town grows {0:P "daily" "every {ORANGE}{COMMA}{BLACK} days"} (funded) <- you can try that
16:39:05 <Yexo> but it's unsupported, and probably doesn't work
16:39:48 <TrueBrain> I guess it should be done from the source
16:39:55 <TrueBrain> in case of 1 (or < 1), make it another string
16:40:11 <TrueBrain> The town grows every day
16:40:14 <TrueBrain> that would be nice too :)
16:40:24 <TrueBrain> The town grows every 1 day looks silly ..
16:41:04 <TrueBrain> I see your point planetmaker :)
16:43:11 <Rubidium> Yexo: it definitely doesn't work, and if it did would only be a solution for a few languages
16:44:21 <TrueBrain> don't more places have the same issue?
16:47:49 <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/action0properties.py", line 221, in ctt_list <- was that fixed by removing the ".expression" from that line?
16:49:11 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: I can't translate {CARGO_TINY}
16:49:14 <planetmaker> Invalid command {CARGO_TINY}
16:49:14 <planetmaker> Missing a {UNKNOWN0} command
16:49:34 <Yexo> planetmaker: bananas checks valid commands via strgen output
16:49:39 <Yexo> so you'll have to wait for the next strgen update
16:50:17 <Yexo> hmm, how is strgen actually compiled?
16:50:22 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: gimme a sec to fix that
16:51:56 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: does it work now?
16:52:17 <TrueBrain> I forgot to update strgen during my commits, so I am unsure if I have to revalidate everything or not :)
16:52:55 <planetmaker> nope, doesn't work yet
16:53:34 <Yexo> the changes to table/control_codes.h and table/strgen_tables.h should be enough for strgen
16:53:56 <TrueBrain> bah; means i need to revalidate the whole set .. I dont want to ...
16:54:03 <TrueBrain> I just want to redo those two strings
16:56:14 <TrueBrain> takes about 20 to 40 minutes to do this, so sit tight :)
16:56:52 <TrueBrain> Yexo: strgen is compiled by a checkout, I think from extra/strgen or something?
16:57:02 <TrueBrain> that is compiled, and then WT3 calls it with -export-commands
16:57:16 <TrueBrain> but it is not automated (for which-ever reason)
16:57:21 <Yexo> strgen is part of /trunk
16:57:29 <TrueBrain> the /extra/strgen picks the right pieces and bits
16:57:38 <TrueBrain> a special makefile, and in /trunk it takes the latest trunk checkout
16:57:41 <TrueBrain> our regular magic :)
16:58:51 <TrueBrain> (note the svn:external)
16:59:01 <TrueBrain> that is used by both the WT3 as the CF :)
17:15:14 <z-MaTRiX> i brought something new for your entertainment
17:16:23 <z-MaTRiX> (grep -Po '<a +.* +href="*[^" >]+' | grep -Po '(?=<a ).*' | grep -Po '(?<= href=)["]*[^" >]+' | sed 's;^";;') <<< '<a gfasg href=asdf><a fgfgg="hi> " href="link" >'
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17:35:45 <z-MaTRiX> perl regexp parsing html links
17:36:09 <z-MaTRiX> its this ougly because its not smart enough
17:39:32 * Belugas congrats peter1138 for been so tricky :)
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17:47:52 <frosch123> Terkhen: that someone bought the "fund buildings" thingie in the town gui
17:49:35 *** sla_ro|master has joined #openttd
17:51:13 <Xaroth> one of the last dozen changes introduced it
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18:01:09 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: (NameError) "global name 'expression' is not defined". "nml/actions/action0properties.py", line 221, in ctt_list <- was that fixed by removing the ".expression" from that line? <-- yes, looks like it
18:02:43 <Eddi|zuHause> <andythenorth> so....grfv8 should remove prop 1D trains (and equiv. other vehicle types)? Or not? <-- no, just add a note in the specs that the new props are "better"
18:06:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: fine by me
18:07:07 <andythenorth> I would like to have 'YACS' as a spec. It's a spec about how to use the features that are available...
18:07:13 <andythenorth> it's not the spec for ottd code
18:07:34 <andythenorth> just a convention
18:07:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i should probably update openttd first before testing the refit properties :p
18:08:57 * andythenorth proposes YACS needs a benevolent dictator
18:09:01 * andythenorth proposes Eddi|zuHause
18:10:28 <Eddi|zuHause> bäh... conflict... in train_cmd.cpp...
18:10:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, aww, that's sweet
18:11:15 <andythenorth> better him than me
18:11:39 <andythenorth> we don't actually know if he's benevolent
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18:12:43 <Zuu> Am I right that currently there is no interface to set town goals in OpenTTD trunk?
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18:16:28 <TrueBrain> there is nothing in trunk which is qualified to perform such actions :)
18:16:34 <Zuu> I'm surprised though that you already have commited that part.
18:16:48 <TrueBrain> I was annoyed AIs couldn't query the town needs
18:17:59 <peter1138> Town Requires: 5 regularly serviced stations and a large bribe
18:18:12 <TrueBrain> and while at that, I could as well update the GUI to represent more internal values :)
18:18:22 <TrueBrain> peter1138: not for arctic towns above the snowline :)
18:21:52 <Zuu> It does makes sense though to get this in already if it is relevant already to reduce the size of your patch-queue.
18:22:56 <TrueBrain> that was a nice extra ;)
18:23:56 <Xaroth> you still have the killer patch :P
18:25:14 <Xaroth> well, the biggest one is quite.. big :P
18:25:48 <TrueBrain> there is another one added
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18:27:27 <Eddi|zuHause> towns should have a "government": industry-friendly, population-friendly or ecology-friendly
18:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> each with slightly different benefits and penalties
18:28:19 <Xaroth> define benefits and penalties :P
18:28:48 <Eddi|zuHause> type of offered subsidies, opinion penalties for property destruction
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18:32:06 <Terkhen> NoGo should allow that in a distant future :P
18:32:26 * Terkhen is planning to retake subsidies one of these days
18:34:19 <Xaroth> ok.. 3 years ago (game time) i destroyed 12 statues/fountains from my town ... now.. i destroyed another 16
18:34:31 <Xaroth> what's this town's obsession with fountains and statues...
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18:35:31 <Terkhen> politicians like to inaugurate stuff
18:36:06 <TrueBrain> LordAro: fanmail, I love fanmail
18:36:17 <Terkhen> I don't know how it goes in other countries, but here we have public libraries inaugurated without books for example :)
18:36:31 <Terkhen> I suppose they'll inaugurate it again once it is usable
18:37:00 <Terkhen> heh, NoGo fanboys already :P
18:37:23 <Eddi|zuHause> town may also have a say in what industries are placed there
18:38:03 <Terkhen> this time you are keeping the old behavior intact, that way you won't get people complaining because the old, broken stuff was removed :)
18:40:11 <Eddi|zuHause> remove the old broken subsidies! :p
18:40:25 <Terkhen> oh, I didn't think of that
18:40:35 <Terkhen> maybe someone will complain after my queue is committed :O
18:40:50 <Terkhen> "I liked my subsidy window empty of mail subsidies"
18:41:20 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe a goal script should be able to set a flag to disable subsidies (and make up its own ones)
18:42:27 <Xaroth> better, company-dependant subsidy offers.
18:43:16 <Terkhen> my queue will just improve the default behavior :)
18:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> something completely different: NewGRF action 14: "developer" settings that only appear in the GUI when the flag is set in config
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23308 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: english_US - 8 changes by Rubidium
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 34 changes by NG, planetmaker
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: italian - 16 changes by Snail_
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 5 changes by Lone_Wolf
18:45:44 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: spanish - 7 changes by Terkhen
18:54:53 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23309 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Fix: loading old games didn't have goals set for towns (tnx to frosch for spotting)
18:55:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23310 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix: Town GUI was not representing the true conditions of arctic / tropical goals
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19:36:12 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23311 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Remove: removed the silly blitter called 8bpp-debug. You can find him at the same place as you can find CTRL+D. Sorry for those who liked to trip while playing OpenTTD; I truly am sorry :D
19:39:27 <frosch123> the world became sad suddenly
19:39:59 * TrueBrain gives frosch123 a cookie
19:40:35 <frosch123> new we need a new easter egg :p
19:40:50 <TrueBrain> you still havent found the other two?
19:41:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the most important easter egg seems to be "change newgrfs ingame"
19:41:31 <TrueBrain> (I am sure many people in here now are: other 2? There are easter eggs? And go look :D)
19:42:51 <frosch123> luckily only few found the easter egg in 0.6
19:43:17 <frosch123> so we could remove it silently in 0.7.5 when it turned out it was completely septic
19:44:36 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: easter egg != surprise egg
19:45:03 <TrueBrain> you make me curious frosch123
19:45:34 <frosch123> TrueBrain: the most serious cve we ever had
19:45:40 <Eddi|zuHause> some (around 2) people got haywire when we removed the "turn around in depot" easter egg
19:46:07 <Yexo> the rest probably never knew you could do that :p
19:47:13 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: maybe we need a newgrf property to make the bounding box larger?
19:47:36 <frosch123> name it glitch_rate or so
19:47:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: bounding boxes > 8/8 do not work
19:48:00 <TrueBrain> frosch123: that doesnt sound so serious ...
19:48:03 <TrueBrain> I expected something HUGE :P
19:48:18 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i mean not the vehicle length, just the bounding box (for drawing purposes)
19:48:59 <frosch123> same, if you make the bounding boxes too big, they will cause even worse glitches
19:49:34 <Eddi|zuHause> currently i get glitches when a train goes over foundations, or a slope
19:49:59 <frosch123> yes, but you do not glitches between the bridge and the whole landscape when a train moves below a bridge
19:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> not sure what you mean
19:50:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the bridge has a bounding box by itself, so i don't see the problem
19:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not making them 3 tiles wide...
19:51:12 <frosch123> by making vehicle bounding boxes too big, you can add lots of cyclic dependencies
19:52:12 <Eddi|zuHause> otherwise i need the ability to make the sprite offsets depend on var62
19:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. by setting a 0x100+ register in a varaction2
19:53:12 <frosch123> maybe that stuff is so special, that it warrants speical functionality by ottd?
19:53:36 <frosch123> a flag to draw sprites relative to another vehicle
19:53:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that could be a possibility as well
19:53:52 <andythenorth> my ships glitch :P
19:54:02 <andythenorth> and yours, if you use FISH :P
19:54:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: your ships are just showing. they pretend to be big ships by projecting images on the landscape, while they are way smaller in real
19:54:56 <Eddi|zuHause> oh: debug feature: single-step through the ticks (my F1 finger is sometimes not fast enough)
19:55:27 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: add a console command to unpause for x ticks?
19:56:06 <Eddi|zuHause> "unpause" -> "this is only available on a network server"
19:56:27 <frosch123> such a command could also be wired to some kind of coin slot :p
19:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause> like the TT demo: play only 2 years
19:57:10 <Yexo> if (!_networking) IConsolePrint(CC_DEFAULT, "Game unpaused."); <- code in ConUnpauseGame
19:57:17 <Eddi|zuHause> god i spent so many hours with that :p
19:57:20 <Yexo> that's even though it can only be run by a server
19:58:13 <Xaroth> bastard town.. i just removed 10 fountain/statues again, and inmediately the town builds 3 more...
19:58:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: make a newgrf that reduces the chance of fountains/statues to appear
19:59:00 <frosch123> Xaroth: s/bastard/hydra/
19:59:00 <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: cba, too busy fiddling with NoGo :P
20:00:10 <andythenorth> so...how much could be scripted?
20:00:18 <andythenorth> what are the practical/performance limits?
20:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> really... since michi_cc's patch the glitches at least tripled
20:01:03 <frosch123> andythenorth: scripts only run on the server, so it is limited by the amount that can be synced
20:01:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i need some countermeasure for that, it's not (sensibly) possible with the existing abilites
20:01:16 <Xaroth> andythenorth: more and more, but there are performance limits for now..
20:01:39 <frosch123> andythenorth: especially they cannot reply to "test runs" of players
20:01:52 <andythenorth> frosch123: ok, I see there's quite a practical limit in that case
20:01:56 <Xaroth> like, setting goals for 400+ towns takes .. 3 minutes :P
20:02:28 <andythenorth> I have a pet project to simplify ottd industry code by booting a lot of stuff about economy somewhere else :P
20:03:00 <andythenorth> like a script that would ship with default game, based on a library other scripts could use
20:03:35 <andythenorth> I once worked out the combination of advanced industry + economy settings I should test FIRS with
20:03:40 <andythenorth> and came up with 'too many' :P
20:05:45 <andythenorth> it sounds like scripts are much too limited to replace the economy + industry placement code though
20:11:17 <Xaroth> SpComb: that's too long, must be 4 letters
20:11:27 <Xaroth> so I'd go for NoCo or NoMy
20:11:36 <Xaroth> NoCo might be a bit close to NoGo ...
20:12:12 <andythenorth> ^ the default script is mostly recessions in that one
20:12:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: maybe you should assign goals in small steps, the largest towns first, or so?
20:13:09 <andythenorth> NoAdequateRiskManagementAgainstExposureToCreditDefaultSwapsOrHighlyLeveragedBets
20:14:23 <Eddi|zuHause> mäh... must get up way too early tomorrow...
20:14:34 <andythenorth> what time is that?
20:16:48 <Eddi|zuHause> at least 4 hours before my natural wake-up time
20:18:18 <andythenorth> dictators don't get a lie in
20:30:01 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v tokai
20:35:05 <z-MaTRiX> she's a maniac maniac on the floor, and she's dancing like she's never danced before
20:36:28 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23312 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#4849]: assertion could be triggered in case a station was removed just after a vehicle delivered cargo to it
20:38:51 <andythenorth> Snail_: how is the french set coming along?
20:39:25 <Snail_> I'm close to releasing a taster...
20:39:45 <Snail_> there are a few glitches I need to sort out before releasing it though
20:39:50 <andythenorth> including NG? :)
20:40:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: are you using railtype labels for narrow gauge?
20:40:06 <Snail_> well, this is only the NG part at this time
20:40:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: possibly sync this with oberhümer's attempts then
20:40:44 <Eddi|zuHause> and put those on the wiki
20:41:35 <Snail_> member:Eddi%7CzuHause: you mean the NuTracks?
20:41:57 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, so everybody uses the same labels
20:42:25 <andythenorth> like cargos.... :D
20:42:28 <Snail_> I'll see if that can be done... I am using 5 different types of NG tracks
20:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: a list of those would be useful
20:42:51 <andythenorth> maybe railtype labels also need a benevolent dictator...
20:43:30 <Snail_> well, my rails are designed to work with the set I'm creating... they'll eventually be downloadable together with the set
20:43:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: after my last discussion with MB, i don't think that'll help anything :p
20:44:01 <andythenorth> just define a convention
20:44:08 <andythenorth> set authors either use it or don't
20:44:12 <Eddi|zuHause> Snail_: yes, but "designed for" is not the same as "can only be used with"
20:44:28 <andythenorth> multiple conventions - causes some splits in the community, but nobody dies
20:44:50 <Snail_> Eddi|zuHause: right, if some other sets want to use my NG rails, they're more than welcome to do so :)
20:44:59 <Snail_> so I might just add my labels to the wiki?
20:46:49 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you discussed railtypes with MB?
20:49:32 <Snail_> Eddi|ZuHause: do you have the addy of that wiki page by any chance?
20:49:55 <Snail_> I'm looking for it but can't find it on wiki.openttd.org ...
20:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause> you should talk to oberhümer anyway ;)
21:00:12 <Snail_> Eddi|zuHause: I can send him a PM. Looks like my tracks are the first NG ones to hit the table anyway?
21:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't know who else is developing narrow gauge sets in secret :)
21:01:03 <planetmaker> hasn't pikka drawn (and released) some?
21:01:09 <planetmaker> or is that still old-style?
21:01:28 <Snail_> well, there was mart3p... I got his permission to edit his work... so I took it as a base for mine
21:01:55 <Eddi|zuHause> hasn't pikka done "finescale" rails? i.e. standard gauge that is just drawn narrower?
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21:05:11 <peter1138> it's in the uk railway set tracks
21:09:57 <peter1138> bah, i keep building road/rail routes as if i've got cargo destinations :(
21:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i know that problem :p
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21:23:43 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: truebrain * r23313 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix: economy.fund_buildings was not shown in the GUI
21:29:12 <Zuu> In rexep (python), how can I use parenthesis in a substitution to only substitute part of the match pattern while still specifying boundary limitations?
21:29:40 <Zuu> Eg. I want to match \.AI_[A-Z0-9], but only replace "AI".
21:32:57 <SpComb> either a look-ahead, or capture and "substitute" the bit you want to keep
21:34:06 <SpComb> (?<=\.)AI_(?=[A-Z0-9])
21:34:32 <Zuu> Oh, I think I got it, I need to make a group not (only) for what I want to replace, but actually, for what I want to keep.
21:34:36 <Zuu> line = "aAIbc = AITown.AI_CITY;";
21:34:36 <Zuu> line = RegExReplace("(\\.)AI(_[A-Z0-9])", "\\1GOAL\\2", line)
21:34:38 <SpComb> but it's probably easier to just do re.sub(r"\.AI_([A-Z0-9])", r".XXX_\1")
21:35:14 <SpComb> sounds like some terrible refactoring :)
21:36:22 <Zuu> RegExReplace is a two line function that is basically calling p = re.compile and then p.sub.
21:37:18 <Zuu> no idea, but the docs seem to prefer compiling it manually.
21:37:38 <SpComb> no point if you just compile for each call anyways
21:40:25 <Zuu> Do you know why if the < symbol that matches word beginning is not supported in Python? (I couldn't get it to work with or without escaping)
21:42:50 <valhallasw> it matches word beginning /in which regex dialect/?
21:43:36 <Zuu> Depending on your vim settings you might need to put a \ infront of it.
21:44:24 <valhallasw> "Vim's regular expression dialect is distinct from many of the other more popular ones out there today (and actually predates them)." (according to the first google hit I get for vim regex dialect)
21:44:52 <valhallasw> but you can probably use \b?
21:45:55 <Zuu> Will \b work even if there is no space in between, eg when there is a bracket? I guess so. I remember reading that it defines words as \w or \W which probably doesn't include brackets etc.
21:46:20 <valhallasw> \b is every boundary between 'word character' to 'non-word character'
21:46:27 <valhallasw> [a-zA-Z0-9_] in ASCII
21:46:35 <valhallasw> not sure what it is for unicode-able regexps
21:47:01 <Zuu> Is line beginning/end a 'non-'word character' in this case? - I guess I should just try it out :-)
21:47:43 <valhallasw> regular-expressions.info is actually quite a good site as reference
21:47:49 <valhallasw> even though the .info tld suggests otherwise
21:55:02 <frosch123> Zuu: yes, \b matches at beginning and end
21:55:42 <frosch123> i.e. also ^\w and \w$
21:57:04 <Zuu> So it is basically the same as < and > except that it is not directional, but it still matches the location between two characters so you do not need to put anytihng back in the result again.
21:59:07 <valhallasw> Zuu: yes, but you don't need directionality
21:59:37 <valhallasw> using 'beginning of word' and then asking for a 'non-word-character' doesn't make sense ;-)
21:59:59 <Zuu> Oh, right, \b is _beginning_ of word, so it is indeed directional.
22:00:23 <valhallasw> however, \b[a-z] always matches the beginning of a word
22:00:28 <valhallasw> and [a-z]\b the end
22:01:01 <valhallasw> with < and >, you can make non-sensible stuff
22:01:20 <valhallasw> 'match end of word, followed by a character from a-z'
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22:10:09 <frosch123> valhallasw: [a-z]\b[a-z] :p
22:11:04 <valhallasw> frosch123: agreed, that doesn't make sense either
22:11:35 <valhallasw> however, my point was you don't lose any flexibility by joining \< and \> into \b
22:12:34 <Zuu> Hmm, my first attempt to use SuperLib in NoGo resulted in a OpenTTD crash (after removing the parts of SuperLib that depend on other libraries)
22:12:49 <Zuu> Lets dig up the debugger and see what happened :-)
22:15:24 <frosch123> valhallasw: s/\</prefix_/ becomes harder to write
22:16:23 <TrueBrain> crash? Interesting ...
22:16:54 <TrueBrain> lemme know what you find out
22:16:59 <TrueBrain> crashing should never happen by scripts :)
22:17:05 <Zuu> I tried to pull, but it appears that you haven't commited any changes since the last CF build.
22:17:37 <TrueBrain> that is, I made enough changes, just nothing new pushed :)
22:19:46 <Zuu> It is probably this code: GoalController.GetSetting("debug_signs")
22:20:15 <Zuu> At least that is what appears to be the squirrel call when debugger kicks in.
22:21:01 <Zuu> It causes AIConfig::GetSetting to be called.
22:21:34 <Zuu> script_controller.cpp, line 80 calls it.
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22:23:08 <TrueBrain> ah, yes, GetSetting is not yet supported for NoGo
22:23:11 <Zuu> The actual problem seem to be that it tries to get the AIConfig of company 66.
22:23:14 <TrueBrain> one of the small parts that is not done
22:23:53 <valhallasw> frosch123: agreed. a very... limited use case, but nonetheless, a valid one
22:24:09 <TrueBrain> Zuu: well, no, it should never try to call AIConfig for a GoalScript :D
22:24:20 <Zuu> I maybe should have known, but now I just randomly called a SuperLib function that just had "AI" replaced by Goal or GOAL. :-)
22:24:58 <TrueBrain> AIConfig stuff is still wired up wrong; I have to rewire it, but it is tricky :)
22:25:42 <Zuu> Indeed, the times when I've digged in that code it has been a lot of stuff to keep track of.
22:26:27 <Zuu> Both the AIConfig and AIController and friends are quite tricky. :-)
22:26:47 <TrueBrain> yup; took me a long time to separate them correctly
22:27:15 <TrueBrain> and except for AIConfig (AIStorage, AIInfo and some other AI) I managed :)
22:27:37 <TrueBrain> will push it to the CF etc now
22:27:42 <Zuu> I have to say that I'm impressed by your work.
22:28:04 <TrueBrain> 90% of the work is just refactoring
22:28:08 <TrueBrain> the NoGo itself is very small
22:29:28 <Zuu> That patch looks nice :-)
22:30:45 <TrueBrain> CF is compiling it now; should be done in like 20
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22:53:41 <TrueBrain> Zuu: new NoGo is compiled, if you like :) Contains events ;)
22:56:37 <Zuu> Okay. Actually the code that I last posted on forums is ready to use the events already. :-)
22:57:37 <Zuu> Now, I added a thing to my NoGo "compiler" that replaces all setting lookup calls with a zero. :-)
22:58:04 <planetmaker> so, I update the server for you, Zuu? :-)
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22:58:11 <Zuu> At least all that follow my coding style.
22:58:30 <Zuu> planetmaker: It seems noone is playing there now.
22:58:49 <planetmaker> well. No reason to not update to the new version
22:58:56 <Zuu> I don't know if that game is done or if anyone wants to continue it.
23:00:40 <planetmaker> well. I can leave it running. But with a restart then the new version will become active. Feel free to re-start if / when you have a script :-)
23:01:01 <planetmaker> will be active after a !restart
23:06:24 <Xaroth> updated nogo1 .. new map tho as the save seems broken o_O
23:06:51 <TrueBrain> yes, savegames are broken :)
23:07:27 <__ln__> how do i get page numbers of table of contents vertically aligned in MS Word 2010, rather than having a kind of inverse indentation for subsection entries?
23:07:47 <planetmaker> __ln__: use latex and make a screenshot ;-)
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23:30:53 <Xaroth> Zuu: in your town nut, why loop to pop all neighbours over 3, instead of creating a new list and adding the first (up-to-3) from the old list?
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23:44:51 <Zuu> Xaroth: it was just how I made it. Probably because it requires one list less. That said, I see that if the list is long, your method is probably faster.
23:45:54 <Zuu> In overall the implementation was not focused on execution speed, but to try things out.
23:52:23 <Xaroth> so no specific reasoning, right
23:53:27 <Xaroth> and you mentioned something about a compiler? :o
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23:56:10 <Zuu> yep, it is not really a compiler
23:56:52 <TrueBrain> (what sound does a starwars thingy make?)
23:57:08 <Zuu> Its a python script that converts my SuperLib directory from being targeted at AIs to being usable for NoGo.
23:57:45 <Zuu> The result can then be droped in a NoGo-script directory and included by: require("NoGoSuperLib/main.nut")
23:57:57 <Eddi|zuHause> you mean a 's/AI/GOAL/g'?
23:58:20 <TrueBrain> Goal doesn't stand for anything ;)
23:58:27 <Zuu> For constants Eddi|zuHause is right
23:58:31 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it should :)
23:58:50 <TrueBrain> I also just mentioned I don't like the name :P Game Script sounds so much better :)
23:59:02 <TrueBrain> (mentioned in other channel)
continue to next day ⏵
