IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-22
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02:39:58 <plantain> suggestions for mods / newgrfs etc to mix up multiplayer games a bit?
02:42:50 <Eddi|zuHause> YACD/YAIM/IS/NoGo/...
02:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> (damn i think i've been around TB too long, i'm becoming evil _ü)
03:04:33 <Elukka> plantain: NARS2 or something for trains with higher running costs to provide a little bit of challenge near the start (or 2cc to make it much harder), long vehicles 4 to make road vehicles viable
03:04:38 <Elukka> FIRS for new industries too
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05:00:39 <z-MaTRiX> i see bits and masks everywhere
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08:07:04 <andythenorth> DorpsGek: r23291
08:09:08 <planetmaker> @openttd commit r23291
08:09:08 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Invalid arguments for _commit.
08:09:15 <planetmaker> @openttd commit 23291
08:09:15 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Commit by michi_cc :: r23291 trunk/src/newgrf.cpp (2011-11-21 22:39:59 UTC)
08:09:16 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: -Feature: [NewGRF] Properties to always include/exclude cargo types from the refit mask. (peter1138)
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08:12:08 <andythenorth> \o/ o o o o o o o
08:12:08 <andythenorth> o \o/ o o o o o o
08:12:09 <andythenorth> o o \o/ o o o o o
08:12:09 <andythenorth> o o o \o/ o o o o
08:12:09 <andythenorth> o o o o \o/ o o o
08:12:10 <andythenorth> o o o o o \o/ o o
08:12:10 <andythenorth> o o o o o o \o/ o
08:12:12 <andythenorth> o o o o o o o \o/
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08:20:52 <DorpsGek> Celestar: Commit by darkvater :: r2 /trunk (9 files) (2004-08-10 14:14:00 UTC)
08:20:53 <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Fix [993829] UDP Fixes (lucaspiller)
08:20:54 <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Fix change 255/0xFF to OWNER_SPECTATOR for
08:20:55 <DorpsGek> Celestar: spectator stuff (TrueLight)
08:27:08 <dihedral> andythenorth, reading too much 9gag? :-P
08:27:52 <andythenorth> no :) Maybe I should go there now...
08:40:29 <Elukka> andy: i totally asked you this before and i think you answered but i forget. was it YACD's or FIRS' fault that you can't disable cargo destinations for industries?
08:41:02 <andythenorth> what's the issue?
08:42:09 <Elukka> well, you can't disable cargo destinations for industries
08:42:30 <Elukka> there's an option for that but it doesn't seem to work
08:42:39 <Elukka> ...i should probably just check whether it works for default industries
09:05:23 <andythenorth> Elukka: it's nothing to do with FIRS
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09:37:38 <andythenorth> can grf v8 deprecate prop 1D for trains? (and equiv. for other vehicles)
09:37:59 <andythenorth> I know that grf v8 is not the magic bullet, but what case is there for that prop remaining?
09:39:21 <andythenorth> prop 1D being bit mask of cargo types available for refitting - for those who don't have the wiki in their head
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09:42:04 * andythenorth is being trolled by MB
09:42:41 <andythenorth> he knows well why we're doing it, he's exhibiting his humour :)
09:46:39 <peter1138> the proposal was there for a week without any comment other than "prop 40/41, are you mad!?!?!?!"
09:47:25 <planetmaker> it was certainly stated in a private mail to Joseph somewhere why your solution now is bad ;-)
09:47:38 <planetmaker> Stupid you, that you didn't see it nor take it into account
09:47:54 <andythenorth> I think he's actually being funny
09:48:05 <andythenorth> the more I see MB, the more I think he has a wry sense of humour
09:48:19 <andythenorth> also I have pms with him now and then
09:49:51 <peter1138> time of the month eh?
09:50:55 <peter1138> so what phone does marten have?
09:53:31 <peter1138> his hand looks awkward holding it :p
09:54:00 * andythenorth has a GPS device and YouTube client that also claims to be a phone
09:54:29 <andythenorth> but as it can't make or receive calls, that might be a dubious claim
09:54:58 <andythenorth> still...I can upgrade to the 4S version - main feature: 'now works a bit like a phone, more of the time'
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11:02:34 <planetmaker> I like today's xkcd...
11:10:08 <V453000> hello, how does the auto-refit work?
11:11:15 <appe> planetmaker: indeed. i was rather blown away by the cost of a b-2 bomber.
11:12:48 <planetmaker> V453000, it needs explicit newgrf support
11:13:11 <planetmaker> only known newgrf to me: nightly of ogfx+trains ;-)
11:17:31 <TrueBrain> still, what does it do? :)
11:17:42 <planetmaker> TrueBrain, refit in stations as part of orders
11:18:04 <planetmaker> i.e. allows to say goto A and load goods, then goto B and load food. restart
11:18:09 <TrueBrain> refit to what? I assumed the 'auto' suggested it does it automatically?
11:18:12 <planetmaker> thus two-way transfer w/o depot visit
11:18:21 <TrueBrain> ah; that is nice :)
11:18:24 <planetmaker> also 'available cargo' works
11:18:31 <TrueBrain> but then why the name 'auto'?
11:18:33 <planetmaker> where 'available' is 'most common'
11:18:52 <planetmaker> i.e. it automatically refits to 3 goods ans 2 food wagons
11:18:58 <planetmaker> when then the sation is empty
11:19:06 <planetmaker> thus 'auto' works, too. Indeed
11:19:29 <planetmaker> which is the real awesome thing actually :-)
11:19:39 <planetmaker> though both separately are awesome already :-)
11:19:47 <TrueBrain> so, to summarize what you try to say: it can refit to the amount available in the station?
11:20:04 <planetmaker> as long as a refit is possible, of course
11:20:12 <planetmaker> i.e. a tanker won't refit to vehicles ;-)
11:20:20 <planetmaker> unless that newgrf is crazy ;-)
11:21:28 <planetmaker> I actually ponder to include one "universal" wagon. Which allows refit in stations for no vehicle change and refit to anything at a cost in depots. Which would simulate switching wagons in depots
11:21:34 <planetmaker> without user intervention
11:21:41 <TrueBrain> that indeed is a nice feature. The 'autorefit' raised some questions :P
11:23:07 <planetmaker> Hm... the universal wagon. I guess, I have a toy to create now ;-)
11:23:24 <TrueBrain> and I think I am going to make a script profile tool of some kind
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11:57:37 <peter1138> desura crashed. good start...
11:58:25 <peter1138> Before playing you need to agree to the license terms and conditions.
11:58:36 <peter1138> GNU GENERAL PUBLIC LICENSE
11:58:45 <peter1138> yeah, i can probably manage that
11:58:56 <TrueBrain> depends on the version :P :P
11:59:26 <peter1138> of course, it doesn't work...
12:05:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the trick about the GPL is you don't have to agree to anything if you're just playing
12:20:26 <peter1138> rules of sodoku: if you're stuck with multiple routes and you find a choice that lets progress quickly, it's most likely the wrong choice
12:32:41 <Xaroth> rules of sudoku: google goggles can solve it for you, saving both time and annorance :P
12:35:00 <peter1138> maybe if i had an android phone
12:35:04 <planetmaker> Good that OpenTTD has also AIs. They can play the game for you, too ;-)
12:35:13 <planetmaker> No annoying self-building anymore ;-)
12:35:14 <andythenorth> iDon'tPhone you mean
12:35:33 <peter1138> andythenorth, sounds like yours is faulty
12:35:45 <andythenorth> only the same as all the others
12:35:48 <peter1138> sure it's not an ipod? :p
12:35:56 <andythenorth> the fault is that I want to hold it when I'm talking to people
12:36:00 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: sounds like a plan :D
12:36:17 <andythenorth> put it on speaker phone, on the table, it's genius :P
12:37:01 <peter1138> didn't they "fix" that by changing the way the bars are displayed?
12:37:37 <andythenorth> they fixed it with the 4s
12:48:42 <peter1138> orudge, you're in trouble with MB ;)
12:50:34 <Celestar> has DBSet been released?
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12:55:42 <orudge> peter1138: oh, has he posted? I figured he would eventually
13:08:17 <Celestar> my workorder to supply me with two more multi-plugs has been set to "in progress" 24 hours ago.
13:08:46 <Celestar> I guess someone should send an S&R team to the storage rooms.
13:09:16 <planetmaker> you really work at a weired company, Celestar
13:09:37 <Celestar> planetmaker: I'm a consultant. my job is attempt to make weird companies ... less weird :P
13:10:12 <Celestar> thing is .. they rarely listen ...
13:10:20 <andythenorth> Celestar: do a startup :P
13:10:27 <andythenorth> less bullshit in startups
13:10:34 <andythenorth> I've been doing a startup for 10 years
13:10:42 <andythenorth> you'd think it might be done by now :P
13:10:48 <Celestar> my employed at a "startup"..
13:11:02 <Celestar> well we just celebrated the 10th anniversary.
13:17:28 <Xaroth> Celestar: might want to send a S&R team for the S&R team as well :o
13:18:08 <Celestar> Xaroth: yeah. have them on standby.
13:25:58 <Celestar> the loo is backing up. again.
13:26:51 <Eddi|zuHause> issue a work order!
13:27:10 <planetmaker> not sure a backup of what's in there is really desirable
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13:27:51 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I did. I do about every other week.
13:28:10 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: issue more!
13:28:11 <andythenorth> the game could use some kind of piping system
13:28:18 <andythenorth> issue less stuff
13:28:22 <andythenorth> then there's no backup
13:28:30 <Celestar> one might think that in the age of nuclear powered vessels and interplanetary probes, one MIGHT be able to find someone to fix a stupid loo.
13:28:34 <andythenorth> if the game had pipelines...
13:28:45 <andythenorth> town -> waste plant -> fmsp
13:30:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: all loo-fixing-jobs have been outsourced, so the knowledge has vanished
13:30:51 <planetmaker> so we need new houses, andythenorth ? :-)
13:30:59 <planetmaker> a firs houses set?
13:31:44 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: if i want to play simcity, i'll do that outside openttd
13:32:05 <planetmaker> then the nogo is not for you :-P
13:32:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: maybe not this script, indeed :)
13:36:14 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how much knowledge is required for such a menial task?
13:36:29 <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know... :)
13:40:22 <Noldo> is this loo fixing somehow analogious to telephone cleaning mentioned in the hichhikers guide or one of the sequels
13:40:47 * peter1138 ponders working on EZ-take2
13:41:36 <planetmaker> go, peter, go! ;-)
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13:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> seriously, ask yourself who in your extended friend/family circle deals in "Gas, Wasser, Scheiße"?
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13:54:52 * andythenorth does ponder why pipelines etc are not considered transportation
14:01:56 <planetmaker> andythenorth, they are.
14:02:11 <planetmaker> But the fun factor has not quite been established: build and make money. done
14:02:17 <planetmaker> even more boring than planes ;-)
14:02:31 <planetmaker> but other than that, there's no real argument agains
14:02:45 <planetmaker> actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-)
14:02:53 <Pinkbeast> This hasn't stopped Simutrans doing electricity supply on a similar basis...
14:03:24 <andythenorth> planetmaker: rule out any assumption that they can be built underground
14:03:31 <andythenorth> above ground only (or in expensive tunnels)
14:03:44 <andythenorth> requires bridging to cross other routes
14:03:55 <andythenorth> limit capacity to n units per tick
14:04:13 <andythenorth> require booster stations to go up slope
14:04:30 <andythenorth> booster stations occupy n tiles depending on power required
14:05:00 <andythenorth> do it right, and it adds interesting complexity to gameplay, rather than 'fire and forget' transport
14:05:20 <andythenorth> also done right, it might be extensible beyond pipelines, to ropeways and such
14:05:22 <Pinkbeast> If the capital and maintenance costs were (a bit artificially) high you'd have to get producer production levels up before it would be worthwhile.
14:05:48 <andythenorth> also artificial limitation: pipelines can only route a -> b
14:05:53 <planetmaker> might make sense with the infra maintenance patch ;-)
14:05:55 <andythenorth> but you can build transers
14:06:06 <Pinkbeast> So then it wouldn't just be a no-brainer "here is my moneymaker at the start of the game" like vanilla OTTD coal transport
14:06:13 <andythenorth> so you might route a -> b, then b->c and b->d
14:06:41 <planetmaker> sounds like lot of work, though :-)
14:06:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> actually: you could make a railtype. Give me the graphics and I might code you that ;-) <-- imho pipelines are easier "hacked" as roadtypes
14:07:15 <peter1138> you better implement roadtypes :)
14:07:21 <planetmaker> yes, that's true, Eddi|zuHause
14:07:42 * andythenorth suspects it's a project of immense proportions :P
14:07:42 <planetmaker> though 1-tile trains might do the job just fine. with invisible signals. But they'd then have to be per railtype
14:08:05 <Pinkbeast> Surely if pipelines are to exist they should be a real thing and not one of these dreadful hacks on some other transport types?
14:08:20 <andythenorth> 'continuous transport'
14:08:24 <Pinkbeast> ... especially with the 16 railtype limit looking a bit stretched in the NuTracks world
14:08:51 <planetmaker> beer pipeline sounds good. I'll need a tea one, too, please
14:08:59 <planetmaker> Good concept for a fun toyland scenario
14:09:06 <peter1138> andythenorth, exactly
14:09:29 <Pinkbeast> continuous transport> cable cars for passengers fit that as well
14:10:10 <andythenorth> also moving walkways
14:10:13 <andythenorth> like in the future
14:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: there are several different kinds of cable cars. but potentially that could be one of the pipeline-types (especially if one of the features is no crossings)
14:10:34 <andythenorth> or at least, no crossings at same height level
14:10:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no switches i mean by that
14:10:40 <andythenorth> bridge over / tunnel under
14:11:15 <Eddi|zuHause> could be useful to connect to some remote tourist center
14:11:36 <planetmaker> pipeline for tourists? ;-)
14:12:07 <Eddi|zuHause> "miscellaneous transport types"
14:12:10 <andythenorth> nobody mention SG
14:12:15 <andythenorth> it's everywhere recently :P
14:12:41 <Pinkbeast> I think one with small gondolas leaving often, like the kind you get in ski resorts, is definitely "continuous transport", not modelling individual gondolas at all.
14:13:09 <Pinkbeast> And if it runs at full speed irrespective of terrain it becomes viable in very hilly areas, which is what you wanted.
14:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: yes, but there's also the model that has two gondolas, when one is going up the other is going down
14:14:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: those can even be used for freight
14:15:06 <Pinkbeast> I think there's an argument that horse-drawn wagonways would be better implemented as "continuous transport" than 500 EGRVTS horse trams, too. :-/
14:15:19 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some village in austria that's only reachable by cable car. no road access
14:15:47 <Eddi|zuHause> they ship entire trucks by cable car
14:16:12 <Pinkbeast> Sure, but one thing at a time, I'm just thinking of things that _are_ continuous transport. :-)
14:22:10 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, vehicles in vehicles eh?
14:22:48 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... not in this instance...
14:28:22 <andythenorth> pipelines in trucks in cable cars on boats
14:29:15 <Eddi|zuHause> elephants on a turtle
14:32:33 <peter1138> hmm, how often would great a'tuin break down?
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15:06:48 <Elukka> anno has a case of the pretties
15:07:55 <andythenorth> whoever drew those pixels is very good
15:08:04 <andythenorth> how many angles do they have to do? :P
15:09:02 <andythenorth> I suspect they might rely on a man called Ray
15:09:06 <andythenorth> to do their painting
15:09:37 <Elukka> hardware isn't actually powerful enough to do raytracing in games yet :P
15:11:42 <andythenorth> what do they use? scanline rendering?
15:12:06 <andythenorth> most of my CGI skills date back to 'make model, hit render, make lots of tea'
15:12:18 <andythenorth> 'go to sleep, make breakfast, more tea, look at screen, curse'
15:14:00 <peter1138> and it's 5 years old... wtf?
15:15:24 <Eddi|zuHause> if you do 3D stuff properly, you can just prepare your game settings to be yanked up in 5 years
15:15:52 <peter1138> when do we get that engine? hehe
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15:22:50 <Elukka> the one the screenshot is from is anno 1404
15:24:28 <Elukka> andy: i'm not sure of the particulars
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15:26:40 <Elukka> but raytracing is still a thing that takes at the very least several seconds
15:26:58 <Elukka> which is obviously wildly inadequate when you need a new frame 30-60 times a second
15:50:54 <Eddi|zuHause> man... xkcd made me listen to a song :p
15:51:25 <TrueBrain> I love Windows .... "Offline Availability: Not Available". "Offline Status: Online"
15:51:41 <TrueBrain> confusion all there ...
15:52:18 <peter1138> ah, 1404... still 2 years old :)
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16:37:48 <peter1138> hmm, ez-take2 patch is smaller
16:37:56 <peter1138> doesn't work right yet :p
16:47:33 <Ammler> does it support the existing ez-sprites?
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16:50:15 <peter1138> currently it supports fuckeduprendering™
16:50:46 <Eddi|zuHause> tried the debug blitter yet? :)
16:51:46 <peter1138> it's not a blitter issue :p
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17:27:23 <peter1138> signals every other tile *cringe*
17:31:27 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: where was your patch for the new refit properties for nml?
17:31:39 <Eddi|zuHause> err... one moment
17:32:20 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/nml_ctt_lists.diff
17:32:34 <Eddi|zuHause> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/nml_move_bytelistprop.diff
17:32:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the last one first
17:34:32 <andythenorth> there was a nforenum patch as well...
17:34:39 <andythenorth> that I tested as apparently working
17:34:40 <peter1138> needs to be a bit more complex now
17:34:50 <Yexo> andythenorth: I've just pushed that one
17:34:58 <Yexo> after fixing it to use the new property numbers
17:35:25 <peter1138> yay for hysterical raisins :S
17:35:31 * andythenorth suspects HEQS might be going nightly only soon
17:36:13 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's something which _can_ be done in a backward compatible way
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17:39:53 <z-MaTRiX> what do you think of my fillrate benchmark code?
17:40:04 <z-MaTRiX> dd if=/dev/zero bs=65536 count=48 of=/dev/fb0
17:45:42 <peter1138> semolina pilchards?
17:47:17 <Xaroth> XeryusTC: under the settings menu, select "Competitor signs and names are displayed" .. that works.
17:50:50 <michi_cc> Somebody should tell oberhuemer to use a line ending aware editor... The CETS commit diffs get quite useless this way...
17:51:34 <Eddi|zuHause> there are diff options to ignore whitespace
17:52:45 <planetmaker> still michi is right
17:53:23 <XeryusTC> Xaroth: ofcourse i forgot about that option xD thanks :)
17:54:15 <XeryusTC> at #openttdcoop we all complained to planetmaker for introducing that feature :P
17:54:27 <XeryusTC> because our screenshots didnt have signs in them anymore xD
17:54:29 <Xaroth> XeryusTC: what'd ye think of my claiming-town attempt?
17:54:30 <TrueBrain> I just fix it to show neutral signs :P
18:05:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: can the makefile be extended to create two grfs of the same source? (so we can generate a separate grf for the narrow gauge vehicles?)
18:06:19 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: opengfx already does so, so yes, it can
18:08:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm still not sure whether narrow gauge would better be modeled as tram
18:08:51 <Ryxen> i hoped someone could help me with it
18:09:12 <Ryxen> its about the map maker tools
18:09:28 <Eddi|zuHause> "EU forbids putting 'water helps against dehydration' on food packaging"
18:10:30 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: it needs no extension. Just define two files in the TARGET_FILES in Makefile.config
18:10:44 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: NG - depends on the kind of NG
18:11:15 <andythenorth> if it's unsignalled, low speed, then yes
18:11:29 <andythenorth> otherwise better as a rail type
18:12:34 <Ryxen> Is there a way i can undo my last creation move in a custom made map
18:14:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: only by loading a savegame
18:15:28 <Ryxen> because i loved this game more then others
18:16:16 <Ryxen> but when creating a map and puss the button place random industrie to mutch!!!
18:16:31 <Ryxen> you must delete everything 1 by 1
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18:17:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: if you load your scenario in the nightly version, you can use "export as heightmap" feature
18:18:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (note that scenarios created in the nightly version will not load in older stable versions)
18:18:58 <Ryxen> maby im stupid but how do i load it in nightly version i never heared of it
18:20:34 <planetmaker> same as in stables
18:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ryxen: if you go on www.openttd.org you get two options: "download stable" and "download nightly"
18:20:52 <planetmaker> but for savegames and scenarios there's no way back to then use them in stable, once used in a nightly
18:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> (sporadically you also get "download testing")
18:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> (but that is not relevant in this case)
18:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't have any 1.1.x screenshots
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18:23:43 <Ryxen> do you mean version 1.1.4.rc1?
18:24:45 <planetmaker> that's testing, yes
18:25:05 <Ryxen> could you plz help me where i can download that nightly?
18:25:43 <planetmaker> read the three download options. stop at the 3rd and read again
18:26:22 <planetmaker> especially the 3rd which reads "Download nightly"
18:29:04 * planetmaker finds this conversation hard to believe
18:29:17 <TrueBrain> he bro, he figured it out bro
18:31:17 <planetmaker> did I mention that I don't fancy being 'bro' of random people?
18:31:27 <planetmaker> especially in these conversations ;-)
18:31:31 <TrueBrain> well bro, it means you need to smoke more pod bro
18:31:38 <TrueBrain> I mean bro, there is nothing wrong with the word bro
18:31:48 <TrueBrain> bro, this is silly :D
18:32:20 <TrueBrain> bro, Eddi|zuHause, can I please remove that sed from my talk list, it is a bit annoying :D
18:33:29 <planetmaker> off to sports then. I guess, I'll either provide good serves (to hit away the stupidity) or provide bad ones (because of still laughing). Not sure yet
18:38:46 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: that site looks interesting
18:39:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it hurts my eyes, though
18:39:29 <SmatZ> well, there seem to be links to some books that might be interesting
18:39:31 * andythenorth is playing MP NoGo
18:39:40 <andythenorth> and doing it all wrong
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18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23292 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt dutch.txt swedish.txt):
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: catalan - 57 changes by arnau
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: dutch - 8 changes by habell
18:45:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: swedish - 9 changes by Zuu
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21:22:29 <Zephyris> Hey, how's it going?
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21:28:32 <volta> hi folks; i'm somehow stuck by my own stupidity: i'm running a game with the newgrfs "pikka's basic industries" and "UKRS industries brick chain" and the default train set; somehow i'm missing wagons for the new cargos ... any idea which newgrf provides those wagons?
21:31:52 <TWerkhoven[l]> oldwagons newcargos or something similar named
21:32:01 <planetmaker> volta: basically every vehicle newgrf does
21:32:11 <TWerkhoven[l]> or you could try ukrs or nars vehicle sets
21:32:13 <planetmaker> I'd recommend ogfx+trains and ogfx+road vehicles
21:32:44 <planetmaker> they keep the spirit of the existing vehicles, but give you support for every cargo, including special graphics for most
21:33:01 <planetmaker> I'm biased though ;-)
21:33:20 <volta> ok, i guess i'll have to start over with the new newgrf then
21:34:11 <planetmaker> volta: also use FISH and if you feel like HEQS
21:34:21 <planetmaker> (ships and more RV + trams)
21:34:44 <TrueBrain> you guys have more 4 letter words? :)
21:35:02 <volta> i just use trains anyways
21:35:04 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: for nearly every newgrf, sure ;-) But Sacro is making it up :-(
21:35:13 <TrueBrain> owh, and he is making them up ......
21:36:09 <frosch123> two letter words are nicknames, 4 letter words are grfs
21:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> how far can a discussion derail? (german forum)
21:39:43 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you challenged? :p
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22:11:56 <Jabol> I had a nice idea that would make OpenTTD more "reallistic".
22:12:08 <Jabol> But then I realized I cannot make this.
22:12:47 <planetmaker> realism is not a design goal. Fun is ;-)
22:13:05 <Jabol> Yeah I know, but I had an idea about day/night cycle that would give some climate to OpenTTD.
22:13:22 <Jabol> If I could know coding and be a very good spriter, I would make a newGRF of it.
22:14:20 <planetmaker> that would need significant changes. Though houses, industries, objects, rails, ... they can change depending on date
22:14:32 <planetmaker> but the terrain can't
22:15:32 <Jabol> Well, if that would be possible to me, I would make trains have glowing lights, the signalizators glow too, make the terrain darker when there's night, etc...
22:16:38 <frosch123> no games every annoyed me more, than those with day/night cycles or weather
22:16:46 <planetmaker> you know though that a day lasts 2.2 seconds?
22:16:56 <planetmaker> you'd have a flashing with 1Hz ;-)
22:17:37 <frosch123> the most realistic day/night cycle is: work at day, play openttd at night :p
22:18:02 <planetmaker> lol, frosch123 :-)
22:19:04 <Jabol> You don't know what are signalizators?
22:19:05 <peter1138> planetmaker, wouldn't it then be 0.4545 Hz?
22:19:51 <peter1138> oh balls, i should've named it YAEZ
22:20:29 <Jabol> Argh, my dreams shattered.
22:20:35 <frosch123> peter1138: start again then. do not pass "start", do not collect 4000$
22:20:39 <Jabol> I would love to see speeding trains with glowing lights at the night.
22:21:57 <Jabol> You know, immortal daylight can get boring fastly
22:29:04 <Yexo> Jabol: the biggest problem is the amount of sprites that would have to be created
22:29:09 <Yexo> coding-wise it's quite easy
22:30:12 <peter1138> ^ there, that's better (it's the same)
22:31:36 <peter1138> there is of course the slight problem of memory usage :S
22:32:01 <frosch123> it is not suitable for cellphones?
22:33:40 <peter1138> the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
22:34:20 <frosch123> did you add 4 additional zoom levels?
22:35:54 <Jabol> Also it is just me or OpenTTD's graphics would be nice for an RTS?
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22:37:25 <peter1138> should be possible to not encode 2x/4x sprites until they're requested
22:38:11 <planetmaker> peter1138: it's nice. But it makes the game unplayable slow for me
22:38:26 <planetmaker> even with nothing but a newly generated map
22:38:58 <planetmaker> mouse cursor movement with < 1fps is... not helpful :-(
22:39:27 <planetmaker> at least during station placement
22:40:57 <peter1138> planetmaker, increase your spritecache size
22:41:24 <peter1138> 22:33 <@peter1138> the sprite cache needs to be about 20x larger
22:41:43 <peter1138> unlike certain other EZ patches i don't force it :p
22:41:54 <planetmaker> right. I forgot that I need to adjust that manually
22:42:24 <planetmaker> that quite solves it indeed
22:42:33 <peter1138> smallmap is known broken, by the way
22:42:43 <peter1138> haven't worked on it yet, is all
22:43:58 <planetmaker> the increased memory usage is IMHO no problem for modern PCs.
22:45:05 <frosch123> 3840 x 1080 is not enough to play when zoomed in
22:45:38 <frosch123> i suppose it is not meant for playing :)
22:46:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess the sprite cache should be automatically adjusted to zoom level
22:46:29 <planetmaker> you simply need it when compiled with that patch. Irrespective of current zoom level, Eddi|zuHause
22:47:00 <Eddi|zuHause> then the additional zoom levels should be disable-able
22:47:12 <planetmaker> anyhow, peter1138, with the bigger sprite cache it works very nice and smooth
22:47:18 <planetmaker> and it looks good when zoomed-in
22:47:45 <planetmaker> is it really *2 and *4?
22:48:07 <planetmaker> It feels like *1.5 and *3 or so :-)
22:49:07 <planetmaker> LordAro should see this ;-)
22:49:09 <Jabol> I wish there could be more games with graphics like OpenTTD.
22:50:06 <frosch123> wow, timmaexx shows an example how to make the meaning of a whole paragraph depend on a single punctuation mark :o
22:53:20 <frosch123> ending his post with an "!" or and "?" completely reverses it
22:54:42 <planetmaker> for me it's the difference maybe between annoyed and satiric
22:54:50 <planetmaker> vice versa actually
22:55:43 <frosch123> ? would require a smiley
22:58:19 <planetmaker> peter1138: damn, it's really nice with the zoom levels :-)
22:58:35 <frosch123> planetmaker: 32bpp topic is more active than ttdp :p
22:58:46 <planetmaker> how that it makes sense also with the usual graphics and doesn't require special sprites
22:58:52 <planetmaker> or otherwise ugly looking sprites
22:59:10 <planetmaker> he, indeed. I saw the numbers but didn't make that comparison ;-)
22:59:35 <frosch123> well, if it was the other way around, i might have posted it :p
23:00:16 <frosch123> just to troll the 32bpp guys
23:00:42 <planetmaker> it's been VERY silent lately
23:00:55 <planetmaker> maquinista or so seems to have moved to lomo
23:01:02 <planetmaker> and he produced lots of sprites
23:03:22 <frosch123> hmm, andy is already gone
23:03:39 <frosch123> i wanted to ask him whether he envies ttdp for their suggestion topic
23:05:03 <frosch123> hmm, the number of posts in the ottd dev forum actually suprises me
23:05:10 <frosch123> i expected suggestions to be way more
23:06:52 <planetmaker> there are many postings for each posting which presents a patch
23:07:12 <planetmaker> less so for suggestions
23:07:36 <Jabol> I always found this weird to see people making smileys with "-" noses.
23:07:49 <planetmaker> btw, I'm more surprised about the general forum being so active ;-)
23:07:59 <peter1138> - noses are traditional
23:08:08 <michi_cc> peter1138: Would it be feasible to have a sprite cache per zoom level so you don't need to store the encoded sprite data for all zoom levels even if they're never shown?
23:08:15 <frosch123> planetmaker: offtopic and forumgames?
23:08:20 <peter1138> michi_cc, i think it is
23:08:40 <frosch123> i think i was once in the forumsgames section... i ran away fast
23:09:04 <planetmaker> it could never really interest me either
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23:09:24 <planetmaker> so... do we need a 'universal' rail wagon?
23:09:34 <planetmaker> Like which can be refit to another wagon type in a depot
23:09:37 <frosch123> i mostly notice it, when i see someone with "4000 posts" post somewhere, and i do not know him :p
23:09:47 <planetmaker> and refit to whatever cargo fits the current wagon in stations?
23:09:56 <peter1138> planetmaker, but it might be fun :)
23:10:13 <planetmaker> refit costs in depot to another wagon of course like buy - sill
23:10:19 <peter1138> frosch123, yeah... and then there's all those people lamenting the people who left... who i've never heard of...
23:11:56 <michi_cc> So GetSprite() would query if the sprite in the wanted zoom level is already stored, and if not would load it and call Blitter::Encode() to only store that zoom level. You wouldn't even need to blow up the sprite just to shrink it the original size then either.
23:14:55 <peter1138> the -simple blitters never store resized versions anyway
23:21:01 <peter1138> change ZOOM_LVL_GUI to be 2X instead of 4X :)
23:21:12 <peter1138> it mostly works... hehe
23:27:19 <Jabol> Oh right, in what language is OpenTTD coded with?
23:32:43 <Jabol> But now seriously: In what language?
23:57:21 <Xaroth> Jabol: check the codebase?
23:57:26 <Xaroth> and lol @ Neon's quitmsg.
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