IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-21
00:00:01 <glx> though if strdup it's result it's ok
00:00:05 <JGR> That one of the landscape arrays?
00:00:06 <TrueBrain> z-MaTRiX: possible; just not userfriendly :)
00:00:17 <TrueBrain> glx: but not 2 threads can do it at the same time ;)
00:00:19 <TrueBrain> so mutexes ;)
00:00:42 <glx> and deadlock risks
00:00:44 <Yexo> z-MaTRiX: when NoAI started you could chose between squirrel and C++ for AIs
00:00:54 <z-MaTRiX> deadlocks are your friend
00:00:56 <TrueBrain> strictly, you can still do an AI in C++ :)
00:01:01 <Yexo> but than we got rid of threads for AIs and the C++ option was no longer viable
00:01:03 <TrueBrain> just nobody can play it :P
00:01:23 <Yexo> you could run it as client in a multiplayer game
00:02:30 <XeryusTC> gn TrueBrain and Xaroth ;)
00:02:36 <TrueBrain> night XeryusTC :)
00:02:43 <Xaroth> nn XeryusTC
00:03:01 <TrueBrain> Yexo: but if we attach _current_company to the thread storage, make OTTD2SQ part of the instance, lock the main thread and run all AIs at the same time, caching their DoCommands ... it _should_ be possible to massively paralise them :P
00:03:18 <TrueBrain> the API is pretty much contained
00:03:34 <Yexo> there are quite some calls to openttd core, we'd have to check each of those very carefullly
00:03:41 <glx> yeah remove globals :)
00:03:41 <TrueBrain> those are only read calls
00:03:46 <TrueBrain> so those are safe
00:03:50 <TrueBrain> as the main thread is standing still
00:04:13 <glx> globals are bad and should be exterminated :)
00:04:13 <TrueBrain> and 2 AIs reading the same peice of memory .. well .. nobody cares :)
00:04:45 <TrueBrain> and all write commands are done via DoCommands, so fully contained in a (local) queue
00:04:56 <glx> as safe as MP
00:05:02 <TrueBrain> exactly ;)
00:05:07 <Yexo> one problem might be that you can't even do a DoCommand while the other AIs are reading stuff
00:05:08 <TrueBrain> that is why I know there is no writing outside DoCommands :P
00:05:13 <Yexo> I mean not even in TestMode
00:05:18 <TrueBrain> Yexo: you do not execute the DoCommand :)
00:05:22 <TrueBrain> why not?
00:05:26 <TrueBrain> it is also just reading of facts
00:05:43 <Yexo> because I think some commands do and undo stuff in test mode
00:05:51 <TrueBrain> those would be bad
00:05:53 <glx> like a player thinking what to do based on what he saw
00:05:54 <TrueBrain> and I realise, one other case
00:06:00 <TrueBrain> where there is global temporary variable ;)
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00:06:28 <TrueBrain> (we have more variants of static varaibles used in functions :P)
00:06:28 <Yexo> which is?
00:06:49 <TrueBrain> I wonder if things like _cmd_text still exist
00:07:10 <Yexo> not with that name
00:07:19 <glx> I think it has been replaced
00:07:37 <TrueBrain> I think it was now part of the DoCommand structure
00:07:40 <TrueBrain> which makes it safe again :)
00:07:48 <TrueBrain> but yeah, Yexo, you might be right there are a few places that will cause issues :)
00:07:56 <TrueBrain> but at least, because it is tightly contained, those are findable :)
00:08:11 <Yexo> yes, that's true :)
00:08:22 <TrueBrain> so, making AIs threadable is not unthinkable
00:08:28 <TrueBrain> now in terms of performance gain ... I dunno
00:08:43 <TrueBrain> there will be some, in corner cases ... like with 16 AIs ..
00:09:10 <TrueBrain> I am afraid the locking and switching in fact hurts performance in most use-cases :P
00:09:29 <Yexo> yes, I think so too
00:09:34 <Swissfan91> is there a template for drawing railway station tiles? how do I know how much of a gap to leave for the track?
00:10:06 <Yexo> never measured anything, but I think the major part of AI time is not spend executing squirrel code but executing test commands
00:10:06 <glx> station tiles need at least 2 parts
00:10:28 <TrueBrain> Yexo: after NoGo, I might profile those things a bit, to get a visual image of what is going on
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00:10:44 <TrueBrain> I am just very curious what takes most time
00:10:53 <TrueBrain> I cant imagine it is Squirrel, as it performed very well during tests
00:10:58 <Yexo> Swissfan91: did you see ?
00:13:39 <Swissfan91> ah yes, thanks Yexo :)
00:14:01 <Swissfan91> i just have so many ideas - hence the NewObjects, Towns, Industries and now stations :P
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00:22:34 <Swissfan91> so i need two completely seperate sprites? or in the same sprite sheet? are there any example station sprite sheets floating around i can see?
00:23:45 <z-MaTRiX> they say sprite is cool but i prefer mineral water instead ;/
00:24:29 <Pinkbeast> Swiss> I would do it as two separate sprites in the same sheet, each of which occupies the relevant half of the area.
00:25:15 <Swissfan91> ok, cool.
00:26:08 <Yexo> Swissfan91: they need to be two separate sprites
00:26:20 <Yexo> whether or not those are in the same file is completely up to you
00:26:33 <Swissfan91> ah, ok.
00:26:41 <Swissfan91> on an unrelated note - does anyone know if its possible to have a 1x2 newobject tile that is 1 down slope tile and 1 flat tile?
00:26:45 <Yexo> <- not sure if that does help you, but it's a station newgrf
00:26:49 <Pinkbeast> Well, putting them in two files just lets them get separated from each other.
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00:26:56 <Yexo> yes, that's possible
00:27:39 <Swissfan91> i sense a 'but' coming :)
00:27:54 <Yexo> no but
00:27:57 <Yexo> it's just possible :)
00:28:04 <glx> some industries do that
00:28:25 <Yexo> industries are not objects though
00:28:40 <glx> you just need to do the right callbacks I think
00:29:01 <Yexo> yep (whereas with industries I don't think you'd need any callbacks at all)
00:29:20 <glx> remember ECS tourist stuff ?
00:29:26 <Yexo> yes
00:29:50 <glx> it uses callbacks to analyse terrain (and reject construction)
00:30:10 <Swissfan91> I see. I was thinking of a ski jump, like
00:30:10 <Swissfan91> 229&sig=107238041530745376254&page=6&tbnh=104&tbnw=166&start=54&ndsp=10&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:54&tx=62&ty=29
00:30:12 <Swissfan91> excuse the link.
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00:30:28 <Yexo> that you don't need any callbacks doesn't mean you can't use them for additional checks
00:31:37 <z-MaTRiX> Swissfan91<< according to your google session, you search many porn sites
00:33:17 * Pinkbeast blinks like that was a little out of left field
00:35:26 <Swissfan91> i'm sorry? O.o
00:36:05 <z-MaTRiX> was a tracking spyware comment, you know, google plays bigbrother with you :)
00:36:45 <Swissfan91> man, i'm confused.
00:37:14 * z-MaTRiX playz Sylver - Confused
00:39:32 <z-MaTRiX> i have an ai 9000, should i go for the ati x550 ?
00:39:46 <z-MaTRiX> s/ai/ati/
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02:06:08 <Xaroth> haha
02:06:12 <Xaroth> nn planetmaker :P
02:06:18 <planetmaker> night :-)
02:06:28 <Xaroth> you said you were going well over an hour ago :P
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03:22:17 <Eddi|zuHause> <Yexo> one problem might be that you can't even do a DoCommand while the other AIs are reading stuff <-- how about issuing a DoCommand will immediately end the AI's tick? results will then be ready at the next tick
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05:21:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then there's also an issue with using global variables to pass information to other functions :(
05:43:18 <anonvocis> Do you use UML at all?
05:43:39 <anonvocis> To plan current or future development of OTTD?
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07:32:41 <peter1138> "An 898 tonne train (ICE3 with 360KL of oil)" nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
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07:53:04 <SpComb> peter1138: indeed, it should be a Transrapid
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08:04:40 <Celestar> moooorning
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08:40:20 <peter1138> hmm, are we supposed to use dos or windows versions of newgrfs these days?
08:40:39 <peter1138> i added dbsetxlw but it defaulted to dos
08:43:06 <planetmaker> peter1138: adv. setting: default palette for newgrfs
08:45:20 <dihedral> good morning
08:46:48 <Celestar> hi
08:52:25 <dihedral> Celestar, it's nice to see you here for a bit longer ;-)
09:08:43 <Celestar> I hope it stays that way :)
09:08:58 <Celestar> I just didn't have time for coding this weekend.
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09:39:11 <Arafangion> Celestar: Don't code again, and you'll have time to stay here. ;)
09:44:02 <Celestar> haha
09:44:05 <Celestar> good point
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10:08:43 <dihedral> i do not have a lot of time to code either
10:08:51 <dihedral> but i do enjoy the time i do have for coding ;-)
10:23:51 <Xaroth> wow, there have been people on the nogo servers all night o_O
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10:41:55 <dihedral> nogo servers?
10:46:25 <planetmaker> yes. clearly no ananas nor tomatoes
10:46:55 <Sacro> no ananas?
10:47:01 <Sacro> yes, we have no ananas
10:47:06 <Sacro> we have no ananas today
10:47:27 <planetmaker> at least I hope, no ananas:
10:48:26 <Xaroth> dih: you should check the forums more often :P
10:48:35 <dihedral> :-P
10:48:37 <dihedral> hehe
10:48:55 <Xaroth> planetmaker: last I heard from tb before he went zzz is that we made more money than coop transport with just transporting oil over silly lengths :P
10:49:19 <planetmaker> might be. it makes good money
10:49:37 <dihedral> good job openttdcoop is not about money :-P
10:50:45 <dihedral> Xaroth, feed me with a link?
10:52:21 <Xaroth>
10:54:06 <dihedral> what is that??
10:54:24 <Xaroth> NoGo :)
10:54:34 <V453000> is that "just" an enhancement of what towns require to grow?
10:57:34 <Xaroth> read the topic
10:57:37 <Xaroth> and read the other topic about it
10:58:01 <dihedral> well if it's too hard to tell, i dont see a reason to check out ;-)
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11:00:34 <planetmaker> we're not curious ;-)
11:03:54 <Xaroth> dihedral: well somebody figured it out just by the hints, so it's not that hard.
11:04:15 <Xaroth> but it was too easy to point you to
11:06:55 <dihedral> interesting
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11:14:49 <dihedral> noooo not guru3 :-(
11:15:35 <peter1138> hmm, my train has an invalid length, apparently
11:16:03 <peter1138> why would i get that message?
11:16:46 <peter1138> with dbsetxl, and the BR01 engine
11:17:46 <planetmaker> changed newgrfs after creation?
11:17:48 <peter1138> nope
11:19:46 <planetmaker> Xaroth: but did you kill the server of last night? :-(
11:19:50 <peter1138> oh
11:20:00 <peter1138> wait a minute, i have michi_cc's patch applied
11:20:05 <peter1138> michi_cc ^^
11:21:13 <peter1138> the bounding box is different after sending the train to the depot
11:27:35 <Eddi|zuHause> ohh... someone has the opinion that IS2 is "well tested" :p
11:29:27 <Xaroth> planetmaker: no, people were on it until the reset date
11:29:32 <Xaroth> which was at around 10am this morning
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11:31:54 <planetmaker> I guess I hate automatic reset dates
11:32:01 <planetmaker> no fun to look at stuff again
11:32:18 <planetmaker> :-(
11:33:08 <Xaroth> yeh, i'm really tempted to just rip it out
11:33:12 <Xaroth> and reset only with new versions
11:38:31 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, directly below a crash report, yes
11:40:07 <planetmaker> :-)
11:45:07 <appe_> where can i find the original ttd music in midi?
11:45:33 <Eddi|zuHause> on your original CD
11:45:54 <appe_> ah, buggers.
11:46:08 <planetmaker> what do you expect?
11:46:24 <planetmaker> help for copyright infringement?
11:46:30 <appe_> nothing really, i was hoping for a CC licence or something
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11:49:11 <Xaroth> that's called opensfx?
11:49:17 <Xaroth> or whatever that license is
11:50:25 <planetmaker> openmsx for music. That's gpl v2
11:50:43 <planetmaker> opensfx for sound. that's CC sampling plus
11:52:49 <appe> i see
11:55:27 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: and we made the most epic oil line ..... we did more in a year than you did :P
11:55:38 <TrueBrain> there were over 4000 goods ready :P You were transporting just 15% :P
11:56:07 <planetmaker> I didn't build for money but for town growth ;-)
11:56:14 <planetmaker> So how large was yours? :-P
11:56:21 <TrueBrain> :D:D
11:56:29 <TrueBrain> it was fun .. sad the server kept running :'(
11:56:42 <planetmaker> rather that it shutdown. yes
11:56:51 <TrueBrain> well, restarted :P
11:56:56 <planetmaker> same thing
11:57:00 <TrueBrain> at a certain moment I had 100 trains on the track :P
11:57:17 <TrueBrain> from start to end you had trains, both ways :D
11:57:20 <planetmaker> hehe :-)
11:57:20 <TrueBrain> one big roundabound :D
11:57:30 <planetmaker> that's how it's supposed to be
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11:57:48 <planetmaker> I guess we need infra sharing with proper credit distribution among companies
11:58:10 <TrueBrain> the oilrig gave me another idea for that, but it might push it a bit
11:58:16 <TrueBrain> a structure called 'storage' or what ever
11:58:21 <TrueBrain> in which you can store stuff, and sell it to others :P
11:58:32 <TrueBrain> but then we are no longer a TRNASPORT game, but in the business of buying and selling :P
12:00:05 <appe> gpl v2 seems to allow me what i need.
12:01:40 <appe> to be.. allowed.
12:07:10 <planetmaker> TrueBrain: it's called "station" ;-)
12:07:58 <TrueBrain> but then you cannot control what goes there and what not :P Well, I guess that is the price to pay :P
12:08:05 <TrueBrain> ugh .. stop talking; first I want to finish NoGo :P :P
12:08:29 <planetmaker> haha :-)
12:08:50 <planetmaker> and I usually control what I deliver to a station quite well ;-)
12:09:10 <TrueBrain> I was more thinking about how to share with more than one company tbh :)
12:09:46 <TrueBrain> hihi, newgrf callback: how much goods which company gets :D
12:09:51 <TrueBrain> or should that be in NoGo? :P :P
12:20:38 <planetmaker> IMHO NewGRFs should not access that
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12:28:15 <dihedral> sounds like you guys had fun ^^
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12:46:49 <andythenorth>
12:49:36 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: I was not being serious :D
12:52:02 <planetmaker> "The right API lets me integrate your product with a USB-controlled toy missile launcher. " <-- clearly one of the important sentences, andythenorth ;-)
12:52:25 <planetmaker> openttd with a missile launcher api :-P
12:53:14 <TrueBrain> sounds the right way to go
12:53:41 <andythenorth> devops
12:53:45 <andythenorth> biab
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13:49:16 <michi_cc> peter1138: Try if you can still break
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13:53:16 <peter1138> ok
13:55:44 <Rubidium> anonvocis: I don't think OpenTTD is very well suited for UML diagrams. That's mostly focussed on classes and that's not something that's done everywhere
13:57:27 <peter1138> michi_cc, C:/MinGW/msys/1.0/home/Peter/ottd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:3547:56: error: 'bool TrainCheckIfLineEnds(Train*, bool)' was declared 'ex
13:57:30 <peter1138> tern' and later 'static'
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13:59:56 <michi_cc> Bah. If you reload the patch file the error should be magically gone :)
14:00:22 <peter1138> :)
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14:01:06 <TrueBrain> well, he has to reapply it too ;)
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14:03:12 <michi_cc> There's one very specific situation where even the updated patch will still generate a train length warning (which will not lead to a crash even if it says so and can be fixed by a depot visit), but you really need to design your save to trigger that.
14:03:26 <peter1138> nope, it still happens
14:03:41 <michi_cc> Savegame?
14:03:50 <peter1138> i'm not exactly "designing" anything
14:04:10 <peter1138> new game with dbsetxl, build a BR 01, send it out on the track. save. load. get warning...
14:04:25 <michi_cc> Don't save :)
14:04:30 <peter1138> i see
14:04:33 <michi_cc> Or bump the savegame version :)
14:05:57 <peter1138> yeah, that's better
14:05:58 <michi_cc> I didn't do that in the patch because I wanted to load test games with and without the patch, but the final commit would of course include the savegame bump.
14:06:08 <peter1138> d'oh
14:06:48 <peter1138> oh, if you have bounding boxes in, they're not removed properly when the train moves
14:07:19 <michi_cc> They weren't always removed properly before either.
14:07:24 <appe> what a waste
14:07:24 <peter1138> k
14:07:25 <appe> bah.
14:07:47 <peter1138> i guess it's because the bb extends beyond the sprite
14:07:54 <appe> building the most elaborate network in pause, dont save, unpause, everything dies.
14:08:17 <Belugas> hello
14:10:21 <michi_cc> The one specific known breakage is when you have a train with a very short front vehicle that is positioned exactly so that the front vehicle is logically just still on a tile (even if the graphics will be almost completely on the new tile) and the center of the last vehicle has just enter a tile. The remove the tracks before and after the train. This is something not fixable because there's just no space for proper vehicle spacing.
14:10:35 <michi_cc> But really, preparing failing save for that is *hard* :)
14:10:52 <michi_cc> It
14:11:21 <michi_cc> 's not breaking OpenTTD though, you'd just need to rebuild the tracks and send the vehicle to the depot to fix it up.
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14:43:26 <PuerScyphu> Create your own unique T-SHIRT.In our website you can upload your image and create your own design and order the product you made
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14:45:32 <planetmaker> @ban *!*@*
14:46:12 *** planetmaker sets mode: +b *!*@*
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14:57:05 <andythenorth> if it's not an insanely stupid question, how doe IS work?
14:57:57 <Xaroth> the name sais it all
14:58:07 <Eddi|zuHause> you have to enable some settings to allow other company's vehicle to use your rails
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15:01:11 <XeryusTC> Xaroth: do you reset the map every day?
15:01:50 <Xaroth> XeryusTC: it -was- set at 2050, but somebody was on all night
15:01:53 <Xaroth> so it reached 2k50
15:01:54 <Xaroth> and reset
15:02:01 <andythenorth> so other players' rail routes can connect to mine with IS?
15:02:04 <Xaroth> .. i disabled reset now, and only reset when updates are made
15:02:14 <andythenorth> so there's a tile with track owned by two players?
15:02:14 <XeryusTC> oh, that makes sense xD
15:02:27 <XeryusTC> well, at least we can do let's play #2 tonight then
15:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: no
15:02:43 <XeryusTC> and hopefully recording software will not go fubar then ;)
15:02:54 <Xaroth> #2 is down, but I can start it up whenever people feel like it :)
15:02:57 <Xaroth> just gimme a hollar
15:03:08 * Xaroth is currently working on a more challenging Goal script.
15:03:13 <XeryusTC> i meant #2 as we tried to do a let's play yesterday ;)
15:03:21 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: look at it like roads, the road vehicles can use other company's roads by just connecting to it
15:03:22 <Xaroth> ah
15:03:42 <andythenorth> but I can't bulldoze competitors roads...
15:03:46 <XeryusTC> also, don't use the word hollar, it makes you sound like a rednekc ;)
15:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you can't bulldoze competitors rails either
15:04:04 <Xaroth> har
15:04:23 <Xaroth> I'm too dutch to be a redneck
15:05:37 <XeryusTC> there are quite a few morons in the dutchlands ;)
15:05:46 <Xaroth> that, is true.
15:06:05 <Xaroth> like people who drive in the fog with amost 0 visibility without their lights on
15:08:22 <planetmaker> andythenorth: just because I share a meal with you doesn't mean that you can tear down my kitchen ;-)
15:09:11 <V453000> :D nice example
15:12:21 <XeryusTC> Xaroth: is servicing off this time btw?
15:14:50 <Xaroth> it should already be
15:15:00 <Xaroth> if not, we can always remind tb that he too has rcon :P
15:25:35 <Xaroth> ok, who's good at squirrel... is there something like pythons 'in' statement?
15:25:47 <Xaroth> as in, if <x> in <iteratable>
15:27:11 <XeryusTC> but tb is a lazy slacker :(
15:28:07 <Xaroth> oh, and i'm not sure if andythenorth or planetmaker asked this, but according to what I read, higest rating counts towards growth atm :P
15:28:25 <Xaroth> but that, obviously, is determined by the script, so is changable
15:28:34 * andythenorth was trying to figure out what the gaping holes are in IS that make it unworkable
15:28:48 <Xaroth> andythenorth: well either you or pm asked that ingame last night.
15:29:04 <planetmaker> might be. valuable info :-)
15:29:27 <planetmaker> andythenorth: it's mostly the edge cases of failed "relationships":
15:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: while you are here, something has come up with the MTSS "license" here: --- basically it prevents anyone from picking up the project
15:29:38 <planetmaker> what do you do with your vehicles on now "enemy" tracks
15:29:48 <planetmaker> if your competitor traps them in an eternal circle
15:29:54 <andythenorth> you lose :P
15:29:54 <planetmaker> and similar
15:29:58 <planetmaker> exactly
15:30:05 <andythenorth> strong fences make good neighbours
15:30:07 <andythenorth> etc.
15:30:08 <andythenorth> :P
15:30:37 <XeryusTC> Eddi|zuHause: actually, it allows someone to pick it up if i say it is ok ;)
15:30:43 <andythenorth> in the game we were playing last night, I quite wanted shared stations
15:30:51 <andythenorth> so that cargo could be transferred between competitors
15:31:06 <planetmaker> you're not the only one
15:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> XeryusTC: in debian-speak, this fails the desert island test
15:31:35 <planetmaker> XeryusTC: and you can't give that anymore, if you drop dead tomorrow
15:31:40 <planetmaker> then it's lost for eterenity
15:31:59 <planetmaker> the "if I say.." is the crucial point.
15:32:00 <XeryusTC> well, you'd just have to wait a couple of years then ;)
15:32:08 <planetmaker> Good licenses require no "...if I say..."
15:32:28 <planetmaker> the ...if I say... is as good as none
15:32:42 <planetmaker> But I actually am convinced that Red*Star will release his sprites ;-)
15:32:51 <planetmaker> Then it doesn't matter what happens with your code :-P
15:33:05 <XeryusTC> well, you can use his sprites as long as you credit him IIRC
15:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but it's easier to pick up a project with existing code instead of starting from scratch
15:34:09 <planetmaker> quite
15:34:36 <planetmaker> given the buggyness of the code and the unwillingness to continue it, I don't really understand your stance, XeryusTC
15:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> station coders don't exactly grow on trees
15:35:08 <Xaroth> aww
15:35:13 * Xaroth chops down his station coder tree
15:35:24 <planetmaker> noooo! :`-(
15:35:46 <planetmaker> You killed it before it could grow fruit... :-P
15:36:00 <XeryusTC> question is then: is any of you willing to pick up where i have left?
15:36:01 <peter1138> is there some irony to a LICENSE file that says it's "without a license" ?
15:36:16 <planetmaker> XeryusTC: that's not the question
15:36:42 <planetmaker> the question is "how many might be deterred to even look or try"
15:36:54 <planetmaker> just for... some vanity issue
15:38:33 <planetmaker> same what I said yesterday: one picks up whatever one finds interesting at that point and toys around. Maybe something comes from it, maybe not
15:38:52 <planetmaker> But I certainly won't even consider toying with something when I would first need to ask
15:39:00 <XeryusTC> tbh i cba atm to change the license :P
15:39:57 <planetmaker> how "convenient"
15:40:13 <planetmaker> you know where OpenTTD would be with this attitude?
15:41:22 <XeryusTC> you sound like my parents :O
15:41:40 <Terkhen> good afternoon
15:41:45 <planetmaker> no, I find it very disappointing and it would have taken you less time to change it than to lament around this thing here.
15:41:47 <planetmaker> hello Terkhen
15:42:20 <planetmaker> it's a matter of attitude. And I find yours highly disappointing in this matter
15:42:52 <Xaroth> criticizing somebody over his or her choices is hardly going to get you what you want, planetmaker...
15:42:55 <planetmaker> something I was very surprised about last time. And I find it the more surprising as you insist on it
15:43:26 <planetmaker> Xaroth: then I'm afraid I've to remove the project from the Devzone. It violates the TOS
15:43:40 <Xaroth> planetmaker: or, you can just ask him nicely...
15:44:01 <planetmaker> I did that... multiple times
15:44:13 * Xaroth shrugs
15:44:22 <XeryusTC> you DO sound like my parent...
15:44:47 <XeryusTC> also, if you remove the project then it is counter productive against the thing that you are trying to achieve
15:45:07 <planetmaker> Not really
15:45:32 <XeryusTC> dont you want it so that anyone can pick up the code and continue where i have left it?
15:45:37 <planetmaker> It's a matter of how far tolerance has to accept intollerance
15:45:47 <planetmaker> to use a somewhat not-matching parabole
15:45:49 <XeryusTC> and if it gets removed from the internets then that is not possible at all
15:46:11 <planetmaker> XeryusTC: wouldn't matter as it wouldn't change a thing
15:46:14 <planetmaker> as things are
15:47:12 <XeryusTC> well, currently you can send me an email and i would be glad to say that someone can pick up where i left it
15:47:43 <planetmaker> then you should state that as license. And not bick around
15:47:49 <planetmaker> which would be cc-by
15:48:20 <XeryusTC> i could, but i dont feel like doing it at all now
15:48:26 <planetmaker> of course
15:48:54 <planetmaker> which is a 5-year-old attitude. Might make sense to sound like parents then
15:51:08 <XeryusTC> *sigh*
15:51:24 <Xaroth> hrnf, easiest way to find the town closest to a TileIndex in sq...
15:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> valuate the town list by distance, and take the minimum?
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16:02:56 <Xaroth> hah
16:03:03 <Xaroth> crude form of town claiming worketh :o
16:08:56 <Yexo> Xaroth: AITown.GetClosestTown(TileIndex)
16:09:06 <Yexo> or I guess GoalTown if you're writing a goal script
16:09:27 <Xaroth> don't see that one in the 1.1.3 docs
16:09:34 <Xaroth> but that wouldn't help either way, as I want to filter out cities
16:09:39 <Xaroth> but i got it working
16:09:51 <Xaroth> thanks anyhow :)
16:09:51 <Yexo> wait, AITile.GetCLosestTown
16:10:24 <Xaroth> ooh, that one I do see
16:10:27 <Xaroth> must remember it :o
16:11:40 <andythenorth> quak
16:12:11 <frosch123> moin
16:13:00 <Celestar> holy idiots. Someone tell the stupid admin crew that you cannot move an application from a server A to a server B without thinking.
16:13:16 <Celestar> especially if you overlook the minor detail that A is PA-RISC and B is IA-64
16:13:45 <andythenorth> would be nice if you could move from server A to server B though...
16:13:53 <Celestar> well
16:13:55 <Xaroth> ok, it works, only slightly buggy o_O
16:14:01 <Celestar> the stuff they moved it ONLY perl scripts.
16:14:24 <Celestar> but some numbnut managed to copy /usr/bin/perl from one server to the other O_o
16:19:01 <SpComb> just set up x86 virtual machines on both servers \o/
16:20:09 <__ln__> or implement perl in java, because java runs on all platforms
16:20:23 <blathijs> Celestar: Sounds like these people can't achieve anything without thinking
16:20:29 <blathijs> nor with thinking, though
16:21:03 <dihedral> :-P
16:21:15 <Celestar> blathijs: some people should flip burgers...
16:21:43 <dihedral> people like my boss :-P
16:21:55 <michi_cc> Celestar: You really want to eat a burger handled by such a person? :p
16:23:14 <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> people like my boss :-P <-- is that one of those times where you tell us "i need a new job"?
16:23:28 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, nope
16:23:44 <dihedral> i am happy with my job
16:23:46 <blathijs> He just needs a new boss ;-)
16:23:53 <dihedral> ... just not always happy with my boss :-D
16:24:21 <dihedral> but actually, i just need to tell my boss what i dislike
16:28:11 <Belugas> meet the new boss,
16:28:15 <Belugas> same as the old boss
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16:29:30 * andythenorth is the boss
16:29:39 <andythenorth> when you want to stick it to the man, that's me that it is
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16:34:42 <dihedral> the more my boss dives into sales and out of the techi parts, the more joy i have ;-)
16:36:34 <andythenorth> dihedral:
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16:42:44 <Celestar> michi_cc: good point.
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17:24:09 <appe>
17:24:15 <appe> leave your keys at the door please.
17:26:57 <planetmaker> hehe
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18:06:36 <Swissfan91> has anyone got ANY idea how to draw picnic table in OTTD? I just cannot do it.
18:06:44 *** SystemParadox has joined #openttd
18:09:38 <Swissfan91> don't all shout at once :)
18:09:54 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: it's too small, don't do it
18:09:57 <andythenorth> is the answer
18:10:48 <Swissfan91> really? I have a 2x1 restaurant I have drawn, with almost an entire tile decking where people would eat/drink IRL. It looks kinda silly completely empty.
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18:33:16 <Wolf01> hello
18:33:41 <__ln__> howdoyoudo
18:34:00 <TrueBrain> and how do you do your wife
18:34:16 <TrueBrain> (dutch joke)
18:35:05 *** andythenorth has quit IRC
18:35:18 <Wolf01> __ln__: not so bad; TrueBrain: too bad I don't have either a girlfriend :P
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23289 /trunk/src/lang/ (german.txt polish.txt):
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: german - 12 changes by NG
18:45:17 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: polish - 19 changes by icecrasher, wojteks86
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19:00:50 * appe makes noise version of the ottd theme.
19:15:10 <Markk> appe: You always make noise, you're aware of that, eh?
19:15:11 <Markk> :D
19:16:00 <Zuu> Hmm, I've spent a lot of time writing AIs and batteling OpenTTD features and NewGRFs, but when faced with NoGo I start to come up with all wierd ideas :-)
19:17:05 <Terkhen> such as? :)
19:17:46 <Zuu> Some kind of networking among towns. Eg "twin cities" where delivering cargo to a town would grow its twin instead of that town. :-)
19:18:18 <Zuu> Or doing so that town grow rate depends on the size/delivery to nearby towns.
19:18:26 <Terkhen> :)
19:19:24 <planetmaker> Zuu: join ;-)
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19:19:54 <z-MaTRiX> hi :)
19:20:45 <Zuu> planetmaker: tweaked goal script? :-)
19:21:03 <planetmaker> not quite.
19:21:16 <planetmaker> I'd be willing to use a tweaked one, though :-)
19:21:22 <planetmaker> But I didn't get around to that yet
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19:30:22 <Zuu> I don't have anything coded yet
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19:31:19 <__ln__> about 1.7k commits until the r25k party
19:32:12 <Zuu> Is that a way saying that I shouldn't make a nogo script but instead commit OpenTTD patches for it ;-)
19:32:52 <__ln__> dunno, it was only a statement :)
19:33:27 <z-MaTRiX> does your linux kernel support HRT ?
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19:46:08 <andythenorth> hola
19:46:49 <Swissfan91> buenos tardes
19:47:15 <__ln__> *buenas
19:47:27 <Swissfan91> whatever :P
19:47:49 <Swissfan91> how is everyone tonight?
19:47:53 <andythenorth> has anyone made a simple railtypes grf for YAIM yet?
19:48:00 <andythenorth> just one extra set of tracks - cheaper, low speed
19:48:09 <andythenorth> leave the normal rails / elrails etc in place
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19:54:41 <frosch123> andythenorth: i have the solutions for groups!
19:55:07 <frosch123> <- you can group them with windows xp
19:55:50 <appe> Markk: -.-
19:58:52 <planetmaker> ha, lol :-)
19:59:59 <z-MaTRiX> nah
20:06:17 <Zuu> Has anyone figured out how to open the NoGo debug window?
20:06:51 <z-MaTRiX> No
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20:07:33 <Terkhen> does it have one?
20:07:43 <Terkhen> IIRC it currently has no GUI
20:07:45 <Zuu> I though I saw a commit message about that.
20:08:27 <frosch123> afaik it's just a tab in the ai debug gui
20:09:00 <Zuu> Oh, yes you are right
20:09:03 <Zuu> Thanks
20:09:58 *** mahmoud has quit IRC
20:32:23 <andythenorth> anyone playing MP NoGo?
20:38:34 * XeryusTC points andythenorth to
20:38:54 * andythenorth is too busy being angry
20:38:59 <andythenorth> to have fun
20:43:47 <Swissfan91> calm down andy :)
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20:50:22 <Xaroth> andythenorth: my servers are free to play, obviously
20:50:32 <Xaroth> but getting people on it might be a bit more tricky
20:51:25 <michi_cc> Scary commit coming in. Very scary commit :)
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20:51:32 <TrueBrain> hihi @ michi_cc :D
20:51:42 <TrueBrain> by the amount of feedback you asked, it should be fine, not? :)
20:51:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23290 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs):
20:51:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2379,FS#3569]: Change the centre of train vehicles to depend on the
20:51:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: vehicle length instead of being fixed at 4/8th of the original vehicle length to
20:51:51 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: make sure shortened vehicles don't block tiles they shouldn't block.
20:52:03 <TrueBrain> \o/
20:52:16 <Xaroth> tempted to upload my custom GoalScript to nogo1
20:52:21 <michi_cc> TrueBrain: It should. But you know, that commit is like open heart surgery :)
20:52:45 <TrueBrain> :D:D
20:52:58 <michi_cc> Don't look at the savegame conversion code :p
20:53:08 <Xaroth> don't tempt me
20:54:07 <TrueBrain> michi_cc: no lack of comments :P
20:56:47 * andythenorth wonders if we could change crash reports
20:57:00 <andythenorth> if you change newgrfs in game, the crash report simply reads "we told you so"
20:58:43 <peter1138> heh
20:59:32 <andythenorth> also if you change newgrfs, any 'undefined string' is swapped for 'we told you so'
21:00:34 <andythenorth> instead of the red ? sprites (which incidentally a major performance suck), we create a sprite for 'we told you so'
21:00:52 <andythenorth> instead of showing the coal mine for broken industries, we show 'we told you so'
21:01:19 <andythenorth> if you have trains on a station tile that now has no track bits, instead of a nice message, we say 'we told you so'
21:01:34 <andythenorth> instead of a message about disconnecting articulated consists, we simply say 'we told you so'
21:02:07 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should change your 16/8 template now. 4/8 + 8/8 + 4/8 instead of 4/8 + 4/8 + 8/8
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21:12:13 <peter1138> playing dbsetxl is weird
21:12:18 <peter1138> the steamers don't make noises :p
21:12:51 <Belugas> what??? mister mb-reality forgot that????
21:12:58 <peter1138> well
21:13:08 <peter1138> running sounds didn't exist back then
21:13:26 <frosch123> Belugas: dbset might be older than your son :p
21:13:48 <Belugas> ho...
21:13:58 <Belugas> pretty good excuse indeed...
21:14:14 <Belugas> my son is getting 8 next month
21:14:19 <peter1138> not quite that old
21:14:25 <peter1138> 2005
21:14:42 <Belugas> missed by two years...
21:14:49 <peter1138> if only mb would make a new one...
21:15:02 <Belugas> there is one... the vapor ware one!
21:15:34 <frosch123> you know that it was announced for 11-11-11, but was postponed due to the recent cargoclass discussion and autorefit?
21:15:35 <andythenorth> to be fair to mb, he doesn't always aim for reality
21:15:41 <andythenorth> he aims for beauty :)
21:19:54 <michi_cc> peter1138: We need your cargo include/exclude property so we can finally close that cargo class discussion (feel free to argue with DaleStan about the property number :)
21:21:21 <frosch123> just use the next free ones
21:22:00 <michi_cc> And for Eddi's proposal at I vote second option for (a) and (b), yes for (d) and undecided/remove for (c). And I'm in favour to include most of the stuff from in the specs.
21:22:47 <peter1138> cets still works, woo
21:23:27 <michi_cc> peter1138: I even made an info post in the NewGRF technical forum, quite from there: "not be a game-breaker but might lead to minor visual differences"
21:23:31 <michi_cc> :)
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21:24:27 <andythenorth> who moderates the openttd forum? :P
21:24:33 <peter1138> Personenzugwagen (Abteilwagen, beschleunigt, 4-achsig) Value: #5
21:24:37 <peter1138> what a description...
21:24:42 <frosch123> michi_cc: r2390, soo long ago? :p
21:24:45 <peter1138> why is my keyboard layout wrong...
21:25:12 <michi_cc> frosch123: Where? :p
21:26:00 <peter1138> anyway
21:26:07 <peter1138> my patch for ctt stuff is publishd
21:26:09 <peter1138> +e
21:26:17 <peter1138> feel free to finish it off :p
21:28:15 <andythenorth> meh
21:28:44 <andythenorth> apparently I am 'very rude for asking for this important discussion to be locked'
21:30:26 <peter1138> oh?
21:30:32 <andythenorth> pa
21:30:34 <andythenorth> h
21:30:38 <peter1138> pa?
21:30:38 <peter1138> h?
21:31:04 <peter1138> though i tend to agree :p
21:31:23 <andythenorth> pah :P
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21:35:18 <Zuu> Hmm, my goal script is more wierd than useful :-)
21:35:22 * andythenorth thinks darketernal is a troll
21:35:48 <Zuu> Takes a while to init and gives different town vastly different goals :-)
21:36:37 <__ln__> *weird
21:36:50 <Zuu> But perhaps I should upload it still to become one of the first NoGo authors as well as AI authors :-p
21:37:30 <z-MaTRiX> who has linux?
21:38:12 <Terkhen> computer guys usually
21:38:22 <z-MaTRiX> would you check this for me? grep -Ei 'now at.*|\.resolution:.*|event_handler:.*' /proc/timer_list | sort -u | tr "\n" ","
21:38:58 <z-MaTRiX> i'm willing to use the HRT don't know what is the current support
21:40:52 <peter1138> you mean the HPET?
21:41:09 <Xaroth> Zuu: yes, it might need a bit optimization here and there
21:41:13 <peter1138> generally you should let the system use the HPET
21:41:21 <Xaroth> and updating 500+ towns is a BIT much :P
21:41:45 <Xaroth> btw, i updated NoGo #1 with a new goalscript
21:42:23 <z-MaTRiX> event_handler: hrtimer_interrupt
21:42:23 <z-MaTRiX> event_handler: tick_handle_oneshot_broadcast
21:42:23 <z-MaTRiX> now at 2795059973518578 nsecs
21:42:23 <z-MaTRiX> .resolution: 1 nsecs
21:42:28 <peter1138> or you're talking about something different :)
21:42:33 <z-MaTRiX> i meant high resolution timer
21:42:59 <z-MaTRiX> that works on lower resolution without a realtime kernel
21:44:26 <peter1138> z-MaTRiX, i guess i'm missing context. what are you doing? :p
21:45:07 <z-MaTRiX> was grepping out some information from "/proc/timer_list" if you mean that
21:45:27 <peter1138> o_O
21:46:52 <z-MaTRiX> but if you mean what im coding using this, i am making a benchmark fraimwork for testing FPS, and rendering time, and was wondering if others can use it too
21:47:35 <z-MaTRiX> but i'll surely know after i put it on web
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21:53:13 * andythenorth avoids trolling forum thread :P
21:53:20 <andythenorth> I should get a cookie every time that happens
21:55:05 <z-MaTRiX> :)
21:55:09 <andythenorth> I'll just have to live with the idea that a kitten didn't die
21:55:15 <andythenorth> 'doing good by not killing kittens' :P
21:55:23 <Zuu> Oh, there will be a revolution - the AI forum has been moved :-p
21:57:37 <Terkhen> good night
21:57:58 <peter1138> Zuu, yeah, more people will actually notice it's there
21:58:48 <Zuu> The question is then, why AIs are below Graphics :-p
21:58:53 <andythenorth> ottd developers (mostly) go to bed early :P
21:58:56 * andythenorth -> bed
21:58:58 <andythenorth> good night
21:59:07 <Zuu> Now there will start a war betwen Graphics and AI folks..
21:59:16 <Zuu> :-)
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22:08:45 <appe> unt know, der glcken.
22:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> whoaah... forum changes!
22:14:17 <SpComb> must reorganize!
22:15:16 <Wolf01> 'night
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22:18:42 <TrueBrain> oeh, AIs have their own forum now ... wow :D
22:19:02 <Elukka> huh. someone said that YACD works fine for passengers and it's just industries it has trouble with
22:19:16 <Elukka> now if only it were possible to turn it off for FIRS industries...
22:19:21 <z-MaTRiX> go bed? with girls?
22:20:00 <z-MaTRiX> hah andy left
22:22:13 <appe> i tried to make a fun cover of the ottd track, i got bored and made this instead:
22:22:38 <appe> not related to ttd in any way, that is.
22:22:39 <appe> :<
22:24:58 <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: you should change your 16/8 template now. 4/8 + 8/8 + 4/8 instead of 4/8 + 4/8 + 8/8 <-- we're currently at 4/8+4/8+4/8+4/8
22:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i'll need to review the whole movement pattern now :)
22:29:28 <Eddi|zuHause> and the sprite slicing, because now the glitches are more apparent
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22:40:01 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r23291 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature: [NewGRF] Properties to always include/exclude cargo types from the refit mask. (peter1138)
23:00:37 <z-MaTRiX> hey Eddi|zuHause
23:00:50 <z-MaTRiX> what's your opinion of using HRT in linux ?
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23:01:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you expect i have an opinion about a random TLA?
23:01:37 <z-MaTRiX> its not random, its high resolution timer
23:01:40 <__ln__> wtf is HRT and why is it so important tonight?
23:01:51 <z-MaTRiX> grep -Ei 'now at|\.resolution:|event_handler:' /proc/timer_list | sort -bu | tr "\n" "|";echo
23:01:59 <z-MaTRiX> event_handler: hrtimer_interrupt| event_handler: tick_handle_oneshot_broadcast|now at 2799987776972366 nsecs| .resolution: 1 nsecs|
23:03:15 <z-MaTRiX> well i'm planning to use it in most of my programs
23:03:22 <z-MaTRiX> so not only tonight for me
23:03:31 <__ln__> why are you flooding that here over and over again?
23:03:48 <z-MaTRiX> Eddi|zuHause<< didn't see it
23:04:32 <__ln__> Eddi sees everything, he's equipped with a palantír.
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