IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-16
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00:11:24 <TomyLobo> i just sent a train to service
00:11:35 <TomyLobo> it came out of the shed with 99% reliability
00:11:44 <TomyLobo> and broke down 3 tiles later -_-
00:17:03 <Eddi|zuHause> they do that, yes
00:20:16 <DabuYu> i often run with the option 'disable breakdowns' - i find breakdowns highly annoying and not really realistic...
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07:40:01 <planetmaker> moin
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07:42:50 <andythenorth> hi planetmaker
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08:19:36 <dihedral> greetings
08:23:07 <planetmaker> hi dihedral
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08:28:35 <Celestar> \o
08:35:27 <dihedral> oi
08:38:03 <Terkhen> good morning
08:44:45 <appe> morning
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09:36:48 * Celestar doesn't like the behavior of "raise land"
09:37:03 <Celestar> because it doesn't actually raise land.
09:37:50 <MNIM> that's... kinda odd?
09:40:10 <planetmaker> should it be called level land to h+1?
09:40:43 <Celestar> planetmaker: I think it should preserve the shape of the levelled land?
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09:41:11 <planetmaker> possibly
09:41:32 <planetmaker> it should raise all covered corners by +1
09:41:53 <planetmaker> s/corners/grid nodes/
09:43:22 <planetmaker> at least in the SE it would be much better
09:43:32 <Celestar> I might do that :P
09:45:25 <Celestar> can you default sound and music to -snull -mnull in the config file?
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09:46:17 <planetmaker> I guess not. But you can select NoSound and NoMusic sets
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09:47:08 <planetmaker> oh no! andy the frosch joined again. Nearly on the same second! ;-)
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09:47:40 <frosch123> i scared him
09:47:58 <planetmaker> hide and seek? :-)
09:48:56 * andythenorth client froze :P
09:48:56 <andythenorth> s
09:49:05 <andythenorth> silly old colloquy
09:50:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: give limechat a shot
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09:52:37 <andythenorth> how shell-esque
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09:53:27 <andythenorth> so far nobody has pointed out that YACS will make the world end
09:55:28 <peter1138> so will YAEZ, YACD, YAIM and YAMA
09:55:48 <peter1138> and YAPP is terrible because block signals are always superior, or soemthing like that
09:56:04 <b_jonas> it's not the end of the world, it will just kill OTTD
09:56:11 <b_jonas> :)
10:00:27 <Celestar> YACS?
10:00:32 <Celestar> cargo scheme?
10:02:47 <andythenorth> cargo scheme
10:03:15 <peter1138> hmm
10:03:28 <peter1138> i wonder how celestar's CD compares to YACD
10:04:52 <frosch123> isn't the biggest diffeence in the handling of towns?
10:05:18 <frosch123> one takes stations as destinations, the other one takes houses as destination afaik
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10:15:21 <Celestar> peter1138: the biggest problem of mine was that in the last version, only a single route was computed.
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10:18:16 <Celestar> it wasn't a design constraint, I was just a little lazy :P
10:35:33 <peter1138> :)
10:39:00 <andythenorth> with the houses as destination, you get compelling madness on PAX routes
10:39:03 <Celestar> I'd have to implement an own pathfinder which can return mutliple paths.
10:39:10 <andythenorth> but you also can't do anything until there are decent RVs available :P
10:39:24 <andythenorth> lazy pax won't walk anywhere :(
10:39:41 <andythenorth> and just end up wanting an AI to run your pax for you :P
10:39:49 <Celestar> haha
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10:40:43 <Celestar> peter1138: I|m sure I have the code .. somewhere
10:40:56 <Celestar> but I also know it'd OLD
10:43:18 <peter1138> YACD is great for pax
10:43:24 <peter1138> but less so for freight :(
10:43:35 <Noldo> why is that?
10:43:55 <Eddi|zuHause> freight may benefit from YACDist
10:44:06 <Celestar> who said that pax/mail and freight should have the same system?
10:45:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. passengers will move to all possible destinations, and are not generated if the destination is not reachable. and freight will always be generated for a reachable destination
10:46:05 <peter1138> i never played with cargodist
10:47:46 <peter1138> conflicts !
10:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> it's great, but you have less incentive to connect up remote locations
10:49:30 <planetmaker> why should fright only want to go to already connected destinations?
10:49:37 <planetmaker> *freight
10:49:47 <planetmaker> fright might well do :-P
10:51:42 <peter1138> gah, too many changes for me to update it
10:51:51 <peter1138> job for michi_cc ;)
10:56:46 <Celestar> hm.
10:57:01 * Celestar is looking for an appropriate translation for 'Sesselfurzer'
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10:58:14 <appe> is that german?
10:58:22 <appe> i love the long hard german words
10:58:28 <appe> like schmetterling
10:58:46 <appe> or geschwindigkeitbegrenzung
10:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause>
11:00:30 <peter1138> bah, they asked me to choose a mobile phone
11:00:51 <planetmaker> samsung nexus?
11:01:02 <planetmaker> available from tomorrow :-P
11:01:09 <planetmaker> at least in the UK, or so I read
11:01:09 <peter1138> heh
11:01:19 <Celestar> HTC Sensation?
11:02:15 <Celestar> well yeah. "pencil pusher" .. but that's way too weak.
11:02:38 <appe> nexus prime <3.
11:02:52 <peter1138> hmm
11:03:00 <peter1138> doesn't take long for marten to get mopey
11:03:10 <peter1138> about 3 steps
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12:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a feeling fs#3569 is a prerequisite for trains driving backwards
12:25:31 <peter1138> hmm
12:25:33 <peter1138> i can't remember
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12:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> it might be easier if the anchor point was moved to the vehicle position, and the vehicle position was moved to the center of the (shortened) vehicle
12:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> but you might have problems with odd-length vehicles then, they'd need a fractional position
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13:02:12 <andythenorth> hmm
13:02:24 <andythenorth> anchor points and positions - reminds me of coding flash games
13:03:27 <andythenorth> in flash, each object is a new plane, on which the nested objects exist.
13:03:53 <andythenorth> so you make good friends with localToGlobal and globalToLocal when you want to do collision detection :P
13:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... Civ5 stopped working :(
13:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> it starts up, plays the music, but after the initial dialog i don't get to the main menu
13:17:22 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how is Civ5?
13:17:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's ok
13:17:36 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I found Civ 4 pretty great especially with BTS
13:17:54 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a step backwards in complexity, compared to BTS
13:18:00 <Celestar> is it?
13:18:56 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, shorter tech tree, fewer units, smaller armies
13:19:09 <Celestar> even shorter tech tree? :P
13:19:11 <Eddi|zuHause> the latter enforced by the one-unit-per-tile rule
13:19:22 <Celestar> the one-unit-per-tile rule sounds pretty helpful
13:19:35 <Celestar> because a single battle in Civ4 could take like 5 minutes.
13:19:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yep, gameplay is totally different because of that
13:19:58 <Celestar> how do you protect settlers then? :D
13:20:16 <Eddi|zuHause> well, one fighting and one non-fighting unit
13:21:06 <Eddi|zuHause> the "embarking" feature is quite good. you just move your unit to a water tile, don't need a ship (lose all remaining movement points, though)
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13:32:47 * andythenorth wants to play warcraft 1 or 2 again :|
13:32:52 <andythenorth> open warcraft 1?
13:34:33 <V453000> :D
13:35:28 <peter1138> andythenorth, graphics look too complicated
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14:18:13 <Belugas> ShowMessage('Good '+ SalutationFor(TimeZone) + ' everyone!');
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14:24:30 <Celestar> rofl
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14:33:31 <TomyLobo> when calculating transport distances for revenue, what is counted? industry-industry distance or station-station distance?
14:33:38 <Xaroth> Belugas: that's just being lazy...
14:33:46 <Xaroth> TomyLobo: station-station
14:33:54 <TomyLobo> thanks
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14:42:44 <planetmaker> station-sign to station-sign to be exact
14:45:39 <b_jonas> that's because you're also not paying for transporting the products between the industry and the station. little invisible man are doing that automatically for you.
14:53:25 <Belugas> Xaroth : what do you expect from me, right when sitting down, without my second coffee???
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15:11:09 <Xaroth> Belugas: a cup of tea would be nice..
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15:33:23 <Hawson> 'morning all
15:33:33 <Hawson> (or other appropriate time of day)
15:34:59 <Hawson> Is it possible to use an HTTP proxy for *only* the online content downloads? I understand that the network game protocol uses something else.
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15:36:48 <Swissfan91> anyone here know about drawing/coding newobjects?
15:38:00 <Yexo> yes, but see the topic: Don't ask to ask, just ask
15:39:26 <Swissfan91> im drawing some ski pistes. obviously they are on snow tiles. If i want them to change as the snowline moves, do I draw them for all of the snow/grass transition tiles and the plain grass tile?
15:39:43 <planetmaker> no
15:39:47 <andythenorth> you might be able to use the ground tile
15:39:50 <planetmaker> you code it properly to use the ground tiles
15:41:11 <Swissfan91> so i place the things that i want on a blue sprite tile, and it takes whatever ground is under it?
15:42:02 <planetmaker> that's feasible, yes
15:42:41 <Rubidium> Hawson: it is not possible to configure a proxy for the online content
15:42:45 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: have a look at the source of opengfx+landscape
15:42:48 <Swissfan91> would it be possible to say, have all of the piste furniture disappear when the tile becomes snow/grass and then grass?
15:42:59 <planetmaker> look at the implementation of the company land
15:43:13 <planetmaker> it's quite advanced, though
15:43:26 <Rubidium> Hawson: unless it's a transparent proxy, but then you don't need to configure it
15:43:32 <frosch123> Swissfan91: yes, you can show a regular path in summer
15:43:40 <planetmaker> can be made much simpler if you just query the tiletype
15:43:54 <Swissfan91> i see, ok. so in terms of what i need to make as a drawer..
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15:45:18 <lugo>
15:46:07 <Swissfan91> perhaps two tiles, both on a blue tile. one with the furniture there for a snow tile, and the other as i would want it to appear with grass underneath?
15:46:43 <frosch123> yes
15:46:46 <Hawson> Rubidium: Thanks. I was afraid of that.
15:46:57 <Hawson> Is there a "manual" workaround?
15:47:18 <Hawson> I can download files via a proxy myself, but then what should I do with them?
15:47:25 <frosch123> Hawson:
15:47:25 <Swissfan91> ok, cool. thanks guys.
15:47:41 <Hawson> frosch123: yeah, found that. :)
15:48:15 <Yexo> Hawson: extract them and place the tar files in the directory as indicated by readme.txt
15:49:10 <Swissfan91> also - how do I make it so trees appear on my tile? and that they mirror whichever tree set is loaded? Is this a coding technique?
15:49:21 <planetmaker> yes
15:49:30 <Rubidium> Hawson: you need to be able to connect to the openttd server on a custom protocol to get the metadata of the content. That connection is used as fallback.
15:49:36 <planetmaker> select a tree sprite and say that it should be shown
15:50:02 <Rubidium> Hawson: so if you get a list of content tou download, then you should be able to download it over the fallback "protocol"
15:50:16 <Hawson> Accurate documentation. Novel.
15:50:23 <Swissfan91> ah ok, cool.
15:50:30 <Rubidium> Hawson: so in there is basically no need for support for a http proxy
15:50:37 <Hawson> Rubidium: yeah, for whatever reason, I can get the manifest lists, but not the actual files
15:51:10 <Rubidium> Hawson: in openttd.cfg search for the no_http_content_downloads setting and change that to true
15:51:15 <Hawson> rather, the "files" I get (e.g. OpenGFX.tar) are really HTML dumps from a filter
15:51:48 <Hawson> hmm...interesting
15:52:10 <Hawson> score!
15:52:12 <Hawson> awesome.
15:52:16 <Hawson> Thank you.
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16:29:35 <planetmaker> Are there more landscape replacement NewGRFs other than OpenGFX+Landscape, NoGridLand, Toyland2Mars, Japanese?
16:29:58 <planetmaker> and Alpine?
16:30:22 <TrueBrain> "
16:30:23 <TrueBrain> My name is Kelvin Kerkular I am 31 years old, and my junior sister name is
16:30:25 <TrueBrain> Vivian Kerkular, 28 years old, we are Citizens of Liberia, currently
16:30:26 <TrueBrain> residing in the refugee camp in Ghana. I am contacting you solely on a business
16:30:28 <TrueBrain> related issues.
16:30:29 <TrueBrain> "
16:30:31 <TrueBrain> I love emails
16:31:04 <__ln___> he wants to do business with OpenTTD, i presume
16:31:34 <TrueBrain> would be an epic reply :D
16:38:27 <blathijs> I think it's awesome that they have internet connection in that refugee camp, though
16:38:41 <planetmaker> satellite telephone
16:38:43 <planetmaker> :-P
16:38:58 <TrueBrain> one hell of an expensive data plan
16:39:10 <planetmaker> :-)
16:44:59 <TrueBrain> so .. okay ... now I really want to publish my HG, as I want the CF to compile it ..
16:45:03 <TrueBrain> how to do that .. hmm ..
16:45:40 <planetmaker> The hg or the patch queue?
16:45:53 <TrueBrain> well, the CF can't handle queues, so it has to be committed I guess
16:46:29 <planetmaker> It could pull from a repo with applied mq
16:47:14 <TrueBrain> oeh, nice
16:47:20 <frosch123> TrueBrain: committing is a bidirectional thing
16:47:34 <frosch123> qfinish + qimport
16:49:51 <TrueBrain> its funny .. you can pull from a MQ, but you cannot push :P
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16:52:51 <Swissfan91> anyone think they'll actually use my TARS new objects when finished?
16:53:07 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: hg push --mq?
16:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> of course, the mq-repo must be separate from the normal repo
16:54:45 <TrueBrain> I want to push the result :)
16:54:48 <TrueBrain> and I fail :(
16:54:49 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23234 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp fileio_func.h network/network_content.cpp): -Fix [FS#4840]: crash when after downloading content
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17:16:16 <Swissfan91> any requests for mountainside furniture?
17:18:14 <Eddi|zuHause> fields and meadows that are preserved under snow
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17:19:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (including snowy fences/hedges/...)
17:20:55 <planetmaker> that's quite a steep request for a NewGRF, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
17:21:57 <Swissfan91> that is something i really want to. I am saving that for the industry, though.
17:21:57 <Eddi|zuHause> what? if you don't need auto-placement, this is a good use case for objects
17:22:27 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you want NewFields :P
17:22:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i know
17:22:37 <andythenorth> frosch123 got stuck with those
17:22:49 <andythenorth> we had an implementation + test newgrf
17:22:53 <andythenorth> but there were....issues
17:22:55 <Eddi|zuHause> that was before we had objects
17:23:00 <Swissfan91> other farms manage it in ECS and/or FIRS don't they?
17:23:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: there's currently only one type of field
17:24:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: industries can only say "plant fields around this"
17:24:10 <andythenorth> we toyed with the idea of industries building objects...
17:24:38 <andythenorth> basically give it some layouts, and have them build on a cb
17:24:43 <Swissfan91> i am completely lost here. sure you could just make an industry which is a barn, and then a meadow field around it similar to the Animal Farm in ECS/
17:25:03 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: I / we hijacked your question ;)
17:25:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ideally you would have multiple kinds of fields. farms may plant "wheat" fields, forests may plant "tree" fields, dairy farms may plant "cow meadows"
17:25:49 <Swissfan91> oh i see, i never knew there was only one type allowed.
17:26:48 <Eddi|zuHause> power stations could plant power lines as fields
17:27:06 <frosch123> i wrote a spec for that last week :p
17:27:13 <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
17:29:34 <Swissfan91> ah well, that may have thrown a spanner in the works of my industry set then.
17:29:42 <Swissfan91> any other requests for mountainside furniture?
17:30:29 <frosch123> mines
17:30:41 <frosch123> (old deserted mines)
17:31:34 <andythenorth> frosch123: proof of spec?
17:31:36 <andythenorth> :P
17:32:06 <Swissfan91> i was thinking more alpine - for skiing primarily - but i will add that to my overall list.
17:32:37 <frosch123> <- i was looking into which cb could get new results since grfv8
17:33:05 <frosch123> but drawing foundations and autoslope may get new results as well
17:33:37 <andythenorth> frosch123: effect 1 has some interesting possibilities...
17:34:04 <andythenorth> would any control be needed over *where* new objects are built ?
17:34:37 <frosch123> i would expect newobjects to have placement restrictions, which do not allow many possitions anyway :p
17:34:51 * andythenorth would rather not over-complicate it
17:35:11 <frosch123> so, there is no use in specifying exact positions, and north/south/west/east does not sound useful
17:35:18 <frosch123> max distance might be possible
17:35:35 <frosch123> or even needed
17:36:03 <andythenorth> radius, not manhattan :P
17:36:18 <andythenorth> I can imagine cases for N/S/E/W - to match specific graphics
17:36:25 <andythenorth> I wouldn't be the one wanting to use them
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17:38:35 <Swissfan91> talking of foundations - how do I go about drawing a building that is say, 2x2, and has two flat squares and two slopes squares?
17:40:10 <andythenorth> frosch123: nice spec :)
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17:54:40 <planetmaker> <-- someone has patience?
17:54:58 <planetmaker> I must not answer, it would be rude ;-)
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18:16:30 <Wolf01> evenink
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18:44:21 <LordAro> evening
18:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23235 /trunk/src/lang/serbian.txt:
18:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: serbian - 32 changes by etran
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18:59:08 <Hawson> /win 2
18:59:20 <murr4y> /fail 2
19:01:45 <Rubidium> /whythespace?
19:03:45 * Hawson shrugs
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19:15:07 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: is it appropriate to publish your cargo scheme proposals to the newgrf wiki yet?
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20:23:55 <appe> ah, the swedish grf sets and state808.
20:24:17 <appe> a very, very intriguing combination
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20:26:26 <planetmaker> state808?
20:26:28 <andythenorth> state808?
20:26:31 <andythenorth> or 808 State?
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20:26:57 <planetmaker> appe: then make sure to use the newest edition of the rails ;-)
20:28:13 <appe> i was so into the game i didnt realize i wrote state808
20:28:49 <appe> if a swedish x2 train used pacific 202 as onboard traveling music, i would die of joy.
20:28:52 <appe> planetmaker: oh, oh!
20:29:00 <appe> planetmaker: i think i do, actually.
20:29:18 <planetmaker> 0.7.2? :-)
20:29:24 <planetmaker> It's only a few hours old :-P
20:29:46 <appe> ah, heh
20:29:59 <appe> where does one find it?
20:30:09 <planetmaker> banananananananananananananananananssssss
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20:38:11 <chill> TrueBrain: Thank you very much for taking the time setting up the compile farm, everything works perfectly now.
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20:38:29 <TrueBrain> np; happy to see the CF put to good use :)
20:38:41 <chill> Also, hi all.
20:39:25 <chill> I will make good use of it anyway :)
20:39:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: frosch * r23236 /trunk/src/object_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r23141): Construction of objects was always rejected.
20:41:23 <chill> Well I have some announcements to make now. See you later all.
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21:07:35 <Swissfan91> to any foru moderator - i was thinking that a thread whereby people/sets can request that they need a drawer or coder, and drawers and coders can offer themselves and promote their skills. does this exist already?
21:09:26 <andythenorth> graphics forum
21:09:46 <andythenorth> graphics development sub forum
21:10:06 <andythenorth> you create a thread there
21:10:12 <andythenorth> for your set ;)
21:10:52 <Eddi|zuHause> put "artist needed"/"coder needed" into the thread title
21:11:06 <andythenorth> yup
21:11:48 <Swissfan91> my set already has one :P i meant a general one for everyone.
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21:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that's needed
21:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> the frogs have invaded?
21:13:06 <Swissfan91> because, for my set, i need a coder for example. and aside from learning it myself, i dont really know what coders are out there. There could be a newobjects coder sat there doing nothing, not knowing of any sets that need a coder.
21:13:10 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: not needed, won't work :)
21:13:19 <andythenorth> there are almost no coders
21:13:23 <andythenorth> as far as we know...
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21:14:42 <Swissfan91> no coders in general? or none for newobjects?
21:15:01 <andythenorth> 'few coders' would be more accurate
21:15:38 <Eddi|zuHause> "numbers of coders * development time per coder / number of projects" converges towards 0
21:15:55 <Swissfan91> ahhh :(
21:16:31 <Swissfan91> no lovely ski pistes for anyone to ski on this xmas then!
21:17:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: you could try to reuse code from OpenGFX+Landscape for the ski pists
21:17:51 <Yexo> Swissfan91: finding a coder is usually a lot easier if you produce graphics first and post them in your topic
21:18:04 <Swissfan91> i have been, Yexo.
21:18:12 <Swissfan91> a tiny amount, i admit.
21:18:39 <planetmaker> just keep going :-)
21:18:58 <Swissfan91> i am quite worried that Yexo is seeing a thread with no graphics in though? :S
21:19:08 <Yexo> no, I'm seeing them
21:19:17 <Yexo> I didn't look at the forum at all before making my previous remark ;)
21:19:29 <Swissfan91> ahhh, well. humble pie for one. :D
21:19:41 <Yexo> the last graphics file you posted doesn't have the correct format though. The blue needs to be rectangular, like in the one before
21:20:16 <Swissfan91> even though the tile is blue, it needs a blue rectangle around?
21:21:10 <planetmaker> Swissfan91: the lift doesn't need the tile below
21:21:17 <planetmaker> it just needs a normal rectangle around
21:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: yes, otherwise you'd draw white stuff
21:21:27 <planetmaker> it's then the coder's responsibility to place it properly
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21:22:10 <Swissfan91> so i should be drawing straight onto the snow tile? I thought i was told that if you want the sprite to be placed on whatever the ground tile, you use a blue base.
21:22:17 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: 1 min
21:22:31 <LordAro> evening
21:22:37 <andythenorth> you can look at some FIRS spritesheets, it might help you figure it out...
21:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: no, you don't need to paint it on the snow tile. just flood-fill everything that is white with blue
21:22:57 <andythenorth> Swissfan91:
21:23:22 <andythenorth> use the 'raw' view on a file to see the png
21:23:24 <andythenorth> e.g.
21:24:10 <andythenorth> Swissfan91:
21:24:43 <andythenorth>
21:26:15 <Swissfan91> i've edited my post. like that?
21:26:19 <Swissfan91> just made neater, obviously.
21:26:46 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, basically
21:27:04 <Swissfan91> potentially seperated out as in the links from Andy.
21:27:46 <Eddi|zuHause> the separation is actually unnecessary, since everything between the sprites is ignored
21:28:06 <andythenorth> but it's much easier to code with a regular grid
21:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> but it might make templating easier if you have the separation
21:28:21 <Swissfan91> ah yes, ok.
21:28:37 <Yexo> Swissfan91: it's easier to code when there is white between the different tiles
21:28:40 <andythenorth> and I would find it odd without the white dividers, they make it easier to code x, y, height, width for action 1
21:28:50 <Yexo> since you can clearly see where a rectangle begins / ends
21:28:58 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: I had to ask all these questions too when I started coding :)
21:29:05 <planetmaker> yes. I'd not enjoy coding w/o separator
21:29:07 <Swissfan91> are the blue boxes that you have cropped yours into just random, or are they set sizes?
21:29:22 <andythenorth> despite I know how to use the same chroma key blue in motion graphics for TV, I never saw sprite sheets until TTD ;)
21:29:30 <planetmaker> width = tile width. Height = fits most
21:29:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: they are fixed sizes
21:29:52 <planetmaker> or height = ground tile height
21:29:52 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: for FIRS vary in size, but the separation between them is constant on the x axis
21:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: so you can use the same xsize/ysize and xrel/yrel values
21:30:24 <planetmaker> it doesn't hurt to use a (usually) too hight box
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21:30:35 <planetmaker> It's always a very good idea to use a box exactly a tile wide
21:30:46 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrt YACS - now we await comment from MB and others...
21:30:54 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes
21:31:00 <planetmaker> (and draw the stuff such that the alignment wrt a tile placed in the very bottom would fit)
21:31:11 <andythenorth> I propose Eddi|zuHause as benevolent dictator of YACS
21:31:37 <Swissfan91> ahh ok, i think i'm getting there.
21:31:59 <planetmaker> andythenorth: first we get the properties. then we can adjust the wiki. My 2ct
21:32:06 <andythenorth> fine by me
21:32:24 <planetmaker> and if we don't rush it, it'll all be fine by then :-)
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21:32:57 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if we treat YACS as a spec that newgrfs comply with or don't, we can ignore hazardous. Say it's out of spec for YACS compliance. Leave it in the wiki.
21:37:05 <appe>
21:37:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that's a bad idea
21:37:15 <appe> (it's audio, and it's mine)
21:37:36 <appe> oh, this is not #ambient.
21:37:39 <appe> please ignore
21:38:13 <Swissfan91> edited again >
21:38:17 <Swissfan91> is that correct now?
21:39:51 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: it can't be removed because we don't know who's using it?
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21:44:04 <Swissfan91> andy?
21:44:24 <andythenorth> hazardous is a crappy class for refitting with, it's silly. Might be useful for doing clever vehicle things, like speed tricks
21:44:38 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: looks fine to me
21:45:50 <Swissfan91> thanks for your help.
21:45:57 <andythenorth> good luck :)
21:46:08 <andythenorth> you should learn to code next
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21:50:25 <Swissfan91> give me a chance :P maybe next year in my gap year.
21:51:17 <andythenorth> it's only 1s and 0s :P
21:51:29 <andythenorth> and some other numbers
21:51:34 <andythenorth> and the letters a-f
21:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause>
21:52:25 <Swissfan91> well.. if its that simple.. we should all be coders :D
21:52:37 <Swissfan91> i have found out the drawing is just a bunch of pixels
21:52:49 <Swissfan91> creating noise on the other hand... oh dear.
21:53:11 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: pop quiz, which direction does the light come from? :)
21:53:38 <Swissfan91> top right?
21:53:42 <Eddi|zuHause> light direction - the bane of andythenorth's apprentice years
21:53:54 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: whack whack oops
21:54:01 <andythenorth> bottom right, high up
21:54:11 <andythenorth> there you go, I saved you some pain ;)
21:54:21 <Swissfan91> now i'm confused!
21:54:23 <Rubidium> andythenorth: whichever direction Simon Foster fancied at time of drawing?
21:54:34 <andythenorth> Rubidium: that is true
21:54:43 <andythenorth> if you take the mode, you'll get bottom right
21:55:05 <andythenorth> if you look closely at the vehicles, he clearly constructed a 3-light film lighting rig for each one :P
21:55:10 <andythenorth> which follows each vehicle around
21:55:25 <andythenorth> the default RVs are lit by Lies!
21:55:32 <Swissfan91> so the shading on this ( is wrong?
21:56:24 <andythenorth> not really, that one's ok
21:56:36 <andythenorth> there should be heavy shadow under the overhang of the roof though
21:57:35 <Eddi|zuHause> there should be more noise :p
21:57:52 <andythenorth>
21:57:52 <Swissfan91> i toyed around with shadow. but then i thought, surely the big building should make a shadow on the small building?
21:58:09 <Eddi|zuHause> and the wires look weird
21:58:14 <Swissfan91> don't mention the N word Eddi!
21:58:37 <andythenorth> noise is easy
21:58:41 <Swissfan91> the wires are weird, they're just put there for show.
21:59:19 <Swissfan91> obviously not much of a show for some people :P
21:59:21 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: the shadows in ottd are not at all consistent. Doesn't matter
21:59:29 <andythenorth> when it looks good to draw shadow, draw shadow
21:59:35 <andythenorth> when it doesn't, don't :)
22:00:08 <Swissfan91> ah, ok. any tips on drawing noise then?
22:00:17 <andythenorth> use three closely related shades
22:00:23 <andythenorth> not more
22:00:57 <andythenorth> look at the roofs on these buildings ;)
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22:01:44 <Swissfan91> three closely related shades from the OTTD palette?
22:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> you have a dead pixel in your image :p
22:02:26 <andythenorth> moi?
22:02:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you :)
22:02:40 <andythenorth> meh
22:02:59 <andythenorth> where's that?
22:04:02 <Eddi|zuHause> in the white area below the 7th sprite
22:04:12 <andythenorth> oh yes
22:04:28 <andythenorth> pixels have to die somewhere I guess
22:05:00 <Eddi|zuHause> ever since i had dead insects in my screen, i am really sensitive to odd pixels...
22:05:09 <Swissfan91> out of interest, why have you chopped the buildings up? To keep them in the 1x1 and 1x2 limit?
22:05:16 <andythenorth> yup
22:05:25 <Eddi|zuHause> VLC is driving me crazy, because it turns the mouse cursor into a black pixel
22:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: you cannot draw left or right of a tile
22:05:47 <andythenorth> Swissfan91: industries don't have a limit, but the graphics for each tile need to be sliced to fit the tile
22:05:52 <Eddi|zuHause> Swissfan91: only above
22:05:54 <andythenorth> there are many ways to do it
22:07:26 <Eddi|zuHause> this is especially problematic if you want to draw wires between two pylons that are 2 tiles apart (to allow building infrastructure inbetween)
22:07:54 <Swissfan91> ah right, ok. eventually, i would like a 2x2 building that is on two flat tiles and two slopes tiles. is this a problem for both coder and drawer?
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22:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> no. as long as the tiles are continguous, it's no problem
22:08:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the slicing can even be done automatically
22:08:39 <Eddi|zuHause> just provide one giant sprite
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22:08:51 <Swissfan91> how do sloped tiles work? in the sense that do you draw your own foundations, does the game do it?
22:09:05 <Eddi|zuHause> the game draws the foundation if you tell it to
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22:09:06 <andythenorth> game can provide foundations from the base set graphics
22:09:13 <andythenorth> they vary by climate
22:10:32 <Swissfan91> i see.
22:10:43 <Swissfan91> brb
22:10:52 <andythenorth> you can also provide your own foundations, but it's a pain
22:10:55 * andythenorth -> bed
22:13:26 <planetmaker> night, andythenorth
22:13:57 <andythenorth> bye
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23:02:52 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23237 /trunk/src/strings.cpp: -Fix: ignore special characters, such as the train "character", when determining a fallback font
23:09:38 <planetmaker> g'night
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23:13:31 <Wolf01> 'night
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