IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-11-02
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00:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that there exists a D which is diagonal that fulfils this equation might be worth proving :p
00:08:01 <__ln__> i suspect diagonals is not the intended solution here because those are only introduced later
00:09:16 <Eddi|zuHause> you can use diagonals without knowing that they are special :p
00:09:32 <frosch123> i would assume there is only one solution to the problem. they are all the same, using a diagonal matrix is just the most formal way to write it up
00:10:37 <frosch123> well, i mean, there are multiple ways to come to the same result :p
00:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: you don't even need the fact that D is diagonal, it's just very obvious to a trained eye
00:12:52 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: what you actually need is that in your case, D^2=1
00:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and you might want to check whether you need C = A*D instead
00:15:13 <frosch123> is that a didactical hint? or did i mess up?
00:15:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (one modifies rows, the other one modifies columns, but i'm too lazy/tired right now to make sure which is which)
00:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i do suspect that it's the wrong way around :)
00:16:34 <frosch123> i think i am right :)
00:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that happens to the best of us :p
02:20:18 <__ln__> heureka, 4*2 is not 6 but 8.
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08:09:25 <Terkhen> those nightly conversations grow longer everyday, from now on I'll only check the backlog for highlights :/
08:15:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker: can you remind me the link for configuring the bouncer? I forgot it :P
08:20:08 <Terkhen> good morning dihedral
08:20:18 <dihedral> hello Terkhen, planetmaker :-)
08:32:18 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: it is at least better than the backlog of the mornings. It only says: morning morning morning morning :P :P
08:32:52 <planetmaker> morning TrueBrain ;-)
08:33:25 <Terkhen> good morning TrueBrain <--- messages like this one are more easy to filter than huge single-line dissertations about whatever :)
08:33:47 <TrueBrain> Terkhen: nah; scroll scroll, there :P
08:36:21 <TrueBrain> I love some posts on the forum :D "I played the original 15 years ago on a 486 ..." .. then maybe you should indeed go play the original, not OpenTTD :P Hihi :D
08:38:04 <planetmaker> ye old times were surely better ;-)
08:47:48 <Terkhen> yes, those trucks that refused to move were a blast
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09:33:07 <Arafangion> Darn, they fixed those bugs? :(
09:33:20 <Terkhen> Arafangion: luckily yes :)
09:34:01 <dihedral> the future was for sure better back then ^^
09:34:25 <Arafangion> dihedral: And also worse.
09:36:03 <Arafangion> dihedral: Have you read 1984?
09:41:02 <Celestar> peter1138: did you give CBH any shot recently?
09:41:54 <Celestar> I've found my last attempt somewhere on disk :D
09:42:10 <Celestar> of course no one single hunk applies, but meh :P
09:42:43 <Celestar> but it still works with the assumption that it is prudent to divide MP_TUNNELBRIDGE into two tile types.
09:42:55 <Celestar> and I'm no longer sure that is valid :P
09:43:47 <peter1138> custom tunnel heads!
09:44:12 <Celestar> actually I had a MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE and MP_ROAD_BRIDGE :P
09:44:46 <peter1138> we've got aqueducts now as well
09:45:20 <peter1138> they should have the treatment too
09:45:54 <Celestar> the advantage was that MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE and MP_ROAD_BRIDGE basically were 1:1 copies of MP_RAILWAY and MP_ROAD with some extra bits set.
09:46:07 <Celestar> using the same handling functions
09:46:54 <Celestar> it removed a shitload of special handling code.
09:46:58 <Celestar> only. it failed at some point :P
09:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> i think the vehicle_enter_tile functions need a z parameter
09:49:44 <Eddi|zuHause> then you can introduce "wormhole" tiles
09:50:06 <Eddi|zuHause> so the magic jumping from bridge head to bridge end can be removed
09:51:10 <Celestar> the problem is, when introducing MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE, MP_ROAD_BRIDGE, MP_WATER_BRIDGE, MP_TUNNEL, we're running out of tile types soon :P
09:52:20 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe with michi_cc's attempt of stacking the rail/road tile on top of the bridge, this becomes obsolete
09:54:46 <peter1138> michi_cc, get to it! ;)
09:54:52 <Celestar> where's his patch :D
09:55:11 <Yexo> www.icosahedron.de/openttd/git/newmap.git
09:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well, all his other patches start with ya :)
09:57:14 <Celestar> sometimes I hate git :P
09:57:29 <Eddi|zuHause> i never got accustomed to git
10:03:37 <Celestar> I use it a lot locally.
10:07:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i found hg way more intuitive to use
10:09:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and whenever i asked anyone about "basic" git tutorials, they told me "you first have to know the internal structures"... no i do not.
10:09:36 <peter1138> git apparently got an overhaul at some point
10:09:45 <peter1138> it's a lot easier to use these days
10:09:57 <peter1138> i dunno when, probably years ago :p
10:10:34 <Celestar> the learning curve is .... a wall
10:10:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i only ever used git to bisect wine, but that was years ago as well
10:11:07 <Eddi|zuHause> at least these guys had a line by line tutorial how to do that
10:13:38 <z-MaTRiX> openttd like anti-alias?
10:14:48 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX hate verb?
10:15:17 <z-MaTRiX> does openttd like anti-alias ?
10:15:28 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Funny, I have the reverse thing with hg
10:15:55 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: So now you've pulled and have multiple heads, and need to merge them and then update your checkout and don't forget to commit, uh what?!
10:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> blathijs: "hg rebase"
10:17:08 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: It's probably because I learned git first
10:17:25 <blathijs> Eddi|zuHause: Though I still really like all of the stuff that's configured in a sane way on git by default
10:17:34 <blathijs> like running git log through a pager
10:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i found that very annoying
10:18:10 <z-MaTRiX> let aa [] i=[];aa [a,b] i = if abs (intdif i) > (1/256) then (if (intdif i)>0 then [[fromIntegral (round a),fromIntegral (round b),1-intdif i],[fromIntegral (round a),fromIntegral (round (b)+1),intdif i]] else [[fromIntegral (round a),fromIntegral (round b),1+intdif i],[fromIntegral (round a),fromIntegral (round (b)-1),-intdif i]]) else [[fromIntegral (round a),fromIntegral (round b),1.0]]
10:18:10 <z-MaTRiX> let sqr f=f*f;doc r xy=sqrt((sqr(r))-(sqr(xy)));circlefirstoctant r = [aa [fromIntegral (round xy),fromIntegral (round (doc r xy))] (doc r xy) | xy <- [1.0,2.0 .. r/sqrt(2)]]
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10:18:41 <z-MaTRiX> first octant of rasterized circle with AA
10:19:26 <peter1138> has anyone played with 32bpp-ez here?
10:20:00 <planetmaker> that long ago so that a 'yes' is lost in the course of time
10:20:01 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: when do you learn that spamming giant blobs of code is totally useless?
10:21:00 <z-MaTRiX> its a small piece of code only
10:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: ever googled for "it takes only 3 commands to install gentoo"?
10:22:17 <z-MaTRiX> ./configure;make;make install; ?
10:24:24 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, the ... && vi blah && ... irritates me ;-)
10:24:47 <z-MaTRiX> aham cool i used to do one-liners too
10:26:32 <z-MaTRiX> why write a multiline script if it can be done in a single pipeline ?
10:26:47 <b_jonas> planetmaker: it also has an interactive invocation of cfdisk
10:27:39 <dihedral> tecnically it's not correct, because he/she/it concaternates way too many commands in order to call that '3 commands' :-P
10:27:51 <dihedral> perhaps 3 lines of bash - yes..
10:28:27 <b_jonas> I still call it a one-liner when I type 500 characters long of a perl command in the bash command line
10:29:10 <z-MaTRiX> ; means line end btw
10:32:21 * Celestar wonders why epiphany imports contacts from pidgin EVERY time
10:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably been programmed by people like z-MaTRiX, who think that copying verbatim "examples" of code is a good way of programming
10:35:33 <z-MaTRiX> no, actually its in haskell and its an algorithm
10:35:52 <z-MaTRiX> haskell applies logic functions
10:36:00 <z-MaTRiX> using whatever methods
10:36:56 <z-MaTRiX> but still makes array of 5.6megapixels of circle data in 2 sec
10:42:42 <Celestar> friggen tests take ages.
10:43:33 <Celestar> because they borked the test framework too :P
10:46:01 <blathijs> Perhaps you should write performance tests for the test framework, while you're waiting ;-p
10:46:35 <Celestar> blathijs: I have done so :P
10:47:11 <Celestar> test suite performance is down from 8 hours (whole set) to 62 hours (same amount and quality of tests)
10:47:45 <Celestar> that's a factor of 8 because the borked the API somewhere
10:47:45 <blathijs> That would be 62 minutes, I presume? :-)
10:48:10 <Celestar> which kinda makes testing a somewhat tedious task :P
10:48:12 <blathijs> Then I'm misreading your "down from" ?
10:48:22 <Celestar> performance down, time up .P
10:50:54 <Celestar> my colleague next to me testing another app has it worse. The suppliers "unit tests" involve firing up an Oracle DB plus a full JBOSS application server. for each of the tests, and there are MANY of them. Most of which fail.
10:51:34 <b_jonas> have you ever ran the full testsuite of ghc or of gcc to completion?
10:51:47 <b_jonas> I think it's impossible
10:51:57 <Celestar> I'm pretty sure it doesn'T take roughly a week :P
10:52:11 <Celestar> (on a 64 CPU Itanium 2 HP Superdome)
10:53:52 <b_jonas> Celestar: those supercomputers don't actually help so much if your tests aren't much parallel
10:54:23 <Celestar> how can unit tests not be parallel.
10:57:32 <Eddi|zuHause> since unittests are generally independent from each other, you can just fire up 64 tests simultaneously
10:57:43 <peter1138> trackpad stopped working on a laptop
10:57:57 <peter1138> and i said... it doesn't work, it's in linux, doing a recovery won't help
10:58:01 <peter1138> okay but you must do a recovery
10:58:09 <peter1138> so eventually i cede
10:58:15 <peter1138> boot up the recovery
10:58:40 <peter1138> can't select an option because you can only select it with the trackpad, lol
10:58:53 <peter1138> tab just gives you back and cancel :P
11:00:46 <Celestar> my Asus laptop was great, until it broke. Then life with asus started to suck badly.
11:01:55 <peter1138> yes, usb mouse works
11:01:59 <peter1138> but that's not the point :)
11:02:10 <peter1138> it's a 2 month old laptop, the trackpad should work, hehe
11:06:04 <Celestar> errrr .. "trackpoints"
11:06:34 *** ChanServ sets mode: +o orudge
11:07:13 <Celestar> "I have compressed my important files with md5sum. how do I decompress them ?"
11:08:05 <Celestar> constant-length encryption anyone?
11:08:31 <b_jonas> I have compressed them with ln -sf world-peace-plan.zip world-peace-plan.doc
11:08:40 <b_jonas> -sf means to add to an archive, right?
11:08:46 <Celestar> "MD5sum: We compress all your files to 32 bytes"
11:09:42 <b_jonas> Celestar: 32 bytes each or 32 bytes total?
11:10:02 <Celestar> b_jonas: doesn't matter, whatever youi want :P
11:12:43 <Celestar> we can compress your entire harddrive to a few bytes.
11:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> just compress all files to 1 bit less, and do that recursively
11:12:59 <Celestar> 16 actually, not 32 :P
11:18:46 <Eddi|zuHause> to understand recursion you first have to understand recursion
11:21:10 <b_jonas> hmm, this seems wrong
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11:21:51 <b_jonas> I've placed a station using the Rural stations newgrf,
11:22:08 <b_jonas> and there's a fence between the buffers for the two tracks
11:23:07 <b_jonas> only the buffers, not the main part of the station
11:25:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and what do you intend to do about it?
11:26:37 <b_jonas> first, I check if there's a newer version of the newgrf
11:27:29 <MNIM> b_jonas: this is caused by the newgrf, as the fence around the buffers is part of the station tile sprite. it doesn't check for it's own adjacent buffers
11:28:13 <b_jonas> MNIM: but it does remove the fence between the non-buffer platforms
11:28:44 <MNIM> I know. as for why the maker didn't do that with the buffers too, I have no idea
11:29:21 <MNIM> but that newgrf is /old/, and as far as Im aware there's no current development or newer versions available.
11:30:37 <peter1138> hmm, we don't have a codeblocks project do we?
11:34:20 <Eddi|zuHause> we don't have lots of <buzzword>
11:34:55 <peter1138> just that if we did i could use it :p
11:39:03 <peter1138> probably easier to boot into linux
11:41:15 <TrueBrain> aahhhhhh ... just took the best dump ever. I feel zen now.
11:43:25 <__ln__> "As Greek politics grew ever more chaotic strong political protests erupted as the government moved to replace military chiefs with officers seen as more supportive of George Papandreou, the prime minister."
11:44:27 <TrueBrain> I asked our prime minister if he can have a referendum in my country, so we can vote against supporting Greece. Those fuckers want to vote if they want our support or not .. well .. take it or leave it :P
11:47:57 <planetmaker> it's also a vote about the imposed pre-conditions of the support.
11:48:07 <planetmaker> Thus the vote is actually a quite sane decision IMHO
11:48:45 <planetmaker> It's like Germany's Federal government would have to do a cut of more than 100 billion Euro
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12:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if it ever comes to that point, the world has other problems :p
12:14:38 <planetmaker> sure. But IMHO it nicely illustrates why it's quite reasonable to ask the populace whether that course of action is wanted
12:16:22 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the german politicians are way too scared to ever let the population decide about _anything_
12:16:29 <TrueBrain> planetmaker: such questions should not be left to the general public tbh; for that you have a gov in place ;)
12:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why we still have no constitution
12:16:43 <Celestar> I'm not sure I _want_ the population to decide some things.
12:17:04 <Celestar> *cough* Stuttgart 21 for example *cough*
12:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i finally want my A143!!
12:17:54 <TrueBrain> oeh, Call Of Duty MW3 is slowly leaking ...
12:24:10 <MNIM> now I have done some horrible stuff to my PCs, but spaghetti?
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12:36:07 <Celestar> my comp refuses to download that :P
12:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: some kind of webfilter?
12:36:52 <Celestar> nah just a dropped conn :P
13:13:53 <Celestar> michi_cc: what is and what isn't already working with your map rewrite?
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14:25:22 <Celestar> good the line's not dead
14:36:53 <Celestar> me: "Could you give me a login to <host>?" - "Yeah, but we use ssh keys" - me "Fine I send you my key" - "Nono, we need to send YOU the key"
14:37:13 <__ln__> was that in soviet russia?
14:37:18 <Celestar> me: "What?" - "Yeah, we have only one key configured for login. We send the private key around to everyone who logs in"
14:37:43 <Celestar> so ... he e-mailed me the private key O_o
14:38:31 <TrueBrain> that is a new method I guess ...
14:39:00 <glx> they are very smart indeed :)
14:39:11 <Celestar> apparently, maintaining 30 public keys is "too much effort"
14:39:28 <Rubidium> it's much safer, after all... there will only be one private key that can be comprised instead of 30
14:39:43 <Celestar> what's there to MAINTAIN?
14:40:09 <glx> and you send the key back we they ask it ?
14:41:40 <glx> it's so hard to append a public key in a text file
14:41:54 <frosch123> but the key is missing one leg
14:42:52 <TrueBrain> well, it is true, maintaining public keys is harder than sharing private keys
14:43:02 <TrueBrain> but if you share private keys ... just allow anonymous access :P
14:43:17 <glx> indeed it's not easy to remove a public key
14:43:35 <glx> (at least finding the one to remove)
14:45:57 <planetmaker> depends whether you added a small, trailing note whom it belongs to...
14:46:44 <Celestar> fact is, they're just nubs
14:47:16 <Celestar> and have nfi what they are talking bout
14:57:53 <peter1138> Celestar, i had similar with PGP :S
14:58:52 <Celestar> why do most people not take pride in their friggen work?
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15:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> my experience is that often the amount of pride people take in their work is antiproportional to the value of their work
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16:48:37 <Qantourisc> Hello, I was reading about FIRS but i was confused
16:49:10 <planetmaker> can we un-confuse you?
16:49:20 <planetmaker> my best bet is: play with it ;-)
16:49:59 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: :) the supply station thing has me confused
16:50:26 <Qantourisc> i think i get it now
16:50:35 <Qantourisc> "The FIRS manual suggests using transfer orders to deliver engineering or farm supplies a few at a time in smaller vehicles."
16:50:42 <Qantourisc> so frequent delivery
16:50:54 <Qantourisc> what intreges me more:
16:50:58 <Qantourisc> "manual" ? where :)
16:51:09 <planetmaker> the idea is: bring supplies to an area in a train (=large volume) to a station. That station must not accept those supplies
16:51:10 <Qantourisc> also firs the best ? or are there better ?
16:51:25 <planetmaker> use transfer orders. And then vehicles to deliver small amounts to the industries nearby
16:51:48 <Qantourisc> i just didn't understand why yet
16:52:17 <planetmaker> primary industries only have a chance to increase production, if they get supplies
16:52:32 <planetmaker> delivering small amounts gives you that chance for more industries and more months
16:52:42 <planetmaker> as supplies are usually not that abundant
16:53:50 <Qantourisc> aa there is also ecs
16:54:36 <Qantourisc> You can't combine them i quess ? :)
16:54:43 <planetmaker> you can't. indeed
16:54:55 <Qantourisc> where is the docu on firs ?
16:55:13 <planetmaker> the wiki page you probably already found
16:55:27 <planetmaker> ecs has a MUCH more extensive docu
16:55:46 <planetmaker> but... most things you also get by looking at the industry chain ingame
16:55:50 <Qantourisc> witch one has the most complex game ? :)
16:55:59 <planetmaker> equal but different
16:57:40 <Qantourisc> then i'll play them both :)
16:58:50 <Qantourisc> dam fics backlinks :)
17:03:00 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 44.2857142857
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17:40:02 <Qantourisc> How do you get rid of ghost stations ?
17:40:13 <Qantourisc> ow ok it disapears by itself
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17:44:20 * Rubidium wonders where software is built from if it isn't build from (some sort of) code
17:47:10 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: cubicals?
17:47:19 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: what do i need to load petrol ?
17:47:54 <planetmaker> a wagon / vehicle / ship /aircraft which allows to be refitted to petrol
17:48:20 <planetmaker> i.e. the default vehicles won't allow that, unfortunately
17:49:08 <planetmaker> if you don't want too many other changes, I recommend to use ogfx+trains, ogfx+road vehicles and fish (as ships)
17:50:02 <Rubidium> what? not ogfx+ships? ;)
17:51:52 <planetmaker> :-) That's recommended, too, of course
17:52:08 <planetmaker> in 2014 or so ;-)
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18:09:20 <Qantourisc> planetmaker: i need ofdx stuff then ?
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18:34:48 <Belugas> god... i want to go home... i don't like that day at all...
18:35:07 <Belugas> i just want to sit down, drink and stare at the tv
18:35:25 <Belugas> The Walking Dead, tahyt wold be fun to watch :)
18:45:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23081 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/maltese.txt:
18:45:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
18:45:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: maltese - 1 changes by kelinu
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19:46:01 <andythenorth> was there a conclusive answer on whether I should use cb15 or cb36 for capacity?
19:46:18 <andythenorth> both seem to be defective
19:47:09 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: in CETS we use CB15 and set our own multiplicators
19:47:22 <andythenorth> so you keep a list of all known cargos?
19:47:29 <andythenorth> and you detect which set is defining them?
19:47:40 <andythenorth> and how the author has chosen to set cargo mutliplier?
19:47:58 <Eddi|zuHause> no, we just randomly set some :)
19:48:06 <andythenorth> so you have mailbags that change weight?
19:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> currently we have multiplicator *4 for mail, *2 for goods, and /2 for tourists
19:48:59 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe we also do /2 or /4 for ENSP
19:49:12 <andythenorth> but in some cases mail is *2
19:49:25 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but imho that's too low
19:49:27 <andythenorth> you've basically chosen to ignore the mess :P
19:49:45 <andythenorth> I wish I could fix it
19:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> i find it annoying to have more than one mail carriage per train
19:54:38 <andythenorth> so how much does 1t of mailbags weigh in your set? :P
19:57:05 <Eddi|zuHause> don't know if we can actually override that
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21:25:19 <Sacro> when using UKRS, how do I disable the default trains?
21:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> don't use a GRF that re-adds them
21:26:49 <Sacro> hmm, also seem to have DBSet stuff :\
21:28:22 <z-MaTRiX> ok im back in ASM programming
21:28:28 <z-MaTRiX> and learning Haskell too
21:46:40 * andythenorth redraws things just for Eddi|zuHause :P
22:09:08 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23082 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: account for snow line table when determining the snow line for building houses
22:32:17 <michi_cc> Eddi|zuHause: Semi-random question for today: Though about using cargo_unit_weight to modify the cargo capacities for unknown cargo types for CETS vehicles?
22:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> michi_cc: no, that hasn't crossed my mind, i'll look at it
22:37:48 *** HerzogDeXtEr has joined #openttd
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continue to next day ⏵
