IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-10-29
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00:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently services are not particularly healthy over the past few weeks
00:36:49 <dihedral> would someone be interested in reviewing a minor patch regarding the admin network?
00:37:54 <dihedral> without this patch connected admins know nothing about client id 1
00:38:02 <dihedral> so basically the server itself
01:20:19 <tas_t_ice> the web server list is working fine, but the in-game server list is definitely busted
01:21:48 <tas_t_ice> it's just empty, and find server doesn't seem to pull the list. entering the IP manually adds the server to the list
01:21:55 <tas_t_ice> and that seems to work
01:23:19 <dihedral> then you are not able to query the servers via udp
01:23:23 <DorpsGek> dihedral: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
01:25:00 <tas_t_ice> maybe i need to reset my NAT router
01:25:49 <dihedral> or your isp does not permit it
01:26:37 <tas_t_ice> it was working about 6 hrs ago
01:28:06 <dihedral> oh - i would say you are right there ^^
01:28:19 <dihedral> but i am guessing either Rubidium or TrueBrain are aware of the fact
01:29:39 <dihedral> there was a commit about the master server not long ago
01:29:53 <dihedral> but they are very likely asleep at this time of the day / night
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01:36:22 <Kerplow> hey im having an issue
01:44:55 <dihedral> but it is nice to know people play openttd at this time of the day :-)
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05:47:51 <Rubidium> dihedral: if we would be aware of the fact it would be somewhat likely that we aren't asleep yet
05:50:51 <Rubidium> although it seems to works again ;)
06:20:39 <z-MaTRiX> what version do you recommend playing with today? :)
06:21:30 <z-MaTRiX> will there be multiplayer games too?
06:21:50 <z-MaTRiX> i have noticed the spread is quite large
06:24:11 <z-MaTRiX> btw why is every single version incompatible with eachother in multiplayer ?
06:25:20 <z-MaTRiX> will moving a menu-element coordinate on a local users display affect dataflow ?
06:25:25 <planetmaker> it's a 100% deterministic game
06:25:36 <planetmaker> for the gameplay.
06:26:36 <z-MaTRiX> still didnt take the time to find the main function
06:42:06 <Rubidium> because clicking doesn't work anymore?
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07:32:08 <Elukka> gratuitous zeppelin, because everything is better with zeppelins
07:41:13 <planetmaker> not bad. Though the rotor blades look a bit thin
07:45:26 <Elukka> trivia: it's 760 meters from bow to stern, the props are nuclear-powered, it carries mostly cargo though there are also passenger cabins
07:45:43 <Elukka> and i'm gonna have to go!
07:48:24 <Yexo> <z-MaTRiX> will moving a menu-element coordinate on a local users display affect dataflow ? <- it doens't. However it's way to much work to mark every revision that does cause incompatibility as "incompatible with last version"
07:49:35 <Yexo> out of the last 10 commits, the following are incompatible: r23059, r23050 and r23049
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08:22:05 <dihedral> planetmaker, r23060M <- LOL
08:23:45 <dihedral> Rubidium, and if you were not aware of it, that highlight would have been enough to let you know :-P
08:26:04 <dihedral> finding a year old changesets does not make things easier
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08:32:25 <Ammler> todays recommend version
08:32:28 <andythenorth> does 50mph justify calling a tram 'Express' ?
08:32:38 <Ammler> come back tomorrow if you do not like this rev
08:32:45 <dihedral> depends on all other trans around that one tram
08:33:14 <dihedral> even not stopping at every station justifies calling it express
08:33:28 <dihedral> germany has express trains - just they are f.... late
08:34:47 <Ammler> andythenorth: how do those trams overtake a slow one?
08:34:52 <andythenorth> Ammler: they don't
08:39:21 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: moin
08:39:29 <andythenorth> need to figure out tram scheme
08:39:41 <andythenorth> cab cars are 7t or 8t
08:39:46 <andythenorth> wagons are 15t or 16t
08:41:35 <andythenorth> needs refit capacities from low (supplies, food etc) to quite high (~250t)
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08:48:14 <z-MaTRiX> i have got a 8500GT PCI-E nvidia card, if i make it work on linux (without the binary shit from nvidia) will it provide superior video performance ?
08:48:59 <z-MaTRiX> or i need the nvidia binary shit for any hardware accelerated opengl?
08:50:41 <dihedral> i have xgl and an intel graphics card
08:53:01 <Alberth> i don't care for performance or gl
08:55:07 * andythenorth has a GPU in his laptop
08:55:49 <planetmaker> the ony thin is, that many sentences without any g or l woud ook a bit strane :-P
08:55:58 <planetmaker> thus I do care about gl :-P
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09:01:56 <z-MaTRiX> well i have this now
09:01:57 <z-MaTRiX> NV5M64 [RIVA TNT2 Model 64/Model 64 Pro] (rev 15)
09:02:18 <z-MaTRiX> and openttd works... though lagging a lot zoomed out at 1024x768
09:02:25 <z-MaTRiX> and especially in multiplayer
09:04:23 <Alberth> in MP you also have the network in the equation, better test locally only imho
09:05:21 <z-MaTRiX> tested locally, and lagging zoomed out, cpu is 2.2GHz AMD64 (3500+) mem is DDR 400, 1GB
09:05:49 <planetmaker> openttd cares not about your graphics card really
09:05:49 <z-MaTRiX> nvidia does not provide sources for driver so on linux its only software
09:06:32 <Alberth> openttd does not do opengl at all
09:06:34 <z-MaTRiX> ok but opengl can be accelerated by the videocard
09:06:36 <planetmaker> thus any lag most likely is not caused by graphics drivers
09:06:45 <z-MaTRiX> what does opengl use for output?
09:06:49 <Rubidium> planetmaker: that might not be true
09:06:49 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX: but openttd doesn't use it... so it has no impact
09:06:52 <z-MaTRiX> what does openttd use for output?
09:07:25 <planetmaker> Rubidium: using opengl? with *I have a patch*-patch? ;-)
09:07:28 <Rubidium> if it sends 8bpp data and some slow piece of software tries to convert that (especially with palette animation), the driver/hardware will be of influence
09:07:48 <Rubidium> planetmaker: it's about lag caused by the graphics driver
09:08:05 <planetmaker> then you'd have similar lag of similar other applications
09:08:28 <Rubidium> and you have any proof that doesn't happen?
09:08:50 <Rubidium> even then, zooming out means drawing lots and lots of sprites which is a lot of work on itself already
09:08:55 <z-MaTRiX> openttd does not output graphics using opengl?
09:09:16 <z-MaTRiX> i remember it was opengl...
09:09:43 <planetmaker> Rubidium: but where comes opengl into that equation?
09:09:46 <Rubidium> in any case, if going from 8bpp-optimized to 32bpp-animated yields a performance boost, then the graphics hardware/driver is a significant part of the slowness problem
09:09:52 <z-MaTRiX> i have put openttd in opengl directory years ago
09:10:13 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX: your problem ;-)
09:10:48 <planetmaker> but there's no opengl output. Unless it happens internal to your graphics driver. Nor has there been more opengl except some patch somewhen somewhere
09:10:51 <Rubidium> planetmaker: but you state lag is most likely not caused by the graphics driver, which I've seen several occasions of where it did influence stuff significantly
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09:11:46 <z-MaTRiX> Rubidium<< even if its software rendering only because of nvidia?
09:12:06 <Rubidium> OpenTTD ofcourse doesn't care whether gl is handled in software or in hardware; that shouldn't cause any significant differences
09:12:38 <Rubidium> (unless it's a graphics card that does almost everything in software except sending the signal, like those lovely winmodems)
09:12:38 <z-MaTRiX> i assumbe you haven't tried nvidia card with software drivers
09:13:37 <z-MaTRiX> im only using an nvidia card because i got this free
09:13:45 <Rubidium> even then, OpenTTD is very well suited to work badly with gl
09:15:01 <z-MaTRiX> i think i'll change my nvidia cards to ati
09:15:37 <z-MaTRiX> a little improvement would be nice in video performance
09:19:27 <z-MaTRiX> CPU and memory performance is not bad if you think about that
09:20:14 <z-MaTRiX> does sha512sum on files with <45% cpu load @ 90MB/s (hdd limit)
09:21:06 <z-MaTRiX> coreutils compile is 9 minutes
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10:36:03 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: What's the issue you have with nvidia cards?
10:36:46 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: The opensource (nouveau) drivers are pretty good although they have poor ABI stability as yet.
10:36:50 <z-MaTRiX> driver issue on linux
10:37:39 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: Generally speaking, I've had a fairly good experience with NVidia on linux - compared with ATI, at least.
10:37:55 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: Although I haven't used ATI since the AMD takeover, I hear they've improved since then.
10:44:09 <z-MaTRiX> i have custom kernel and binary fails to assimilate.
10:45:37 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: Which kernel?
10:45:53 <Arafangion> z-MaTRiX: You should be able to recompile the kernel part.
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11:01:36 <z-MaTRiX> no since its binary shit
11:01:44 <z-MaTRiX> i cannot recompile it
11:02:15 <z-MaTRiX> and also the installer is lame enought to not know my system structure either
11:02:26 <z-MaTRiX> (where to copy the files)
11:07:42 <Ammler> he, I needed to wait a year until my favorite pc factory sells again nvidia pc and you prefer ati :-P
11:09:04 <z-MaTRiX> well it will work because they provide sources for drivers
11:09:18 <z-MaTRiX> and i can have hardware acceleration on linux
11:10:19 <z-MaTRiX> currently any scrap ati card will outperform any nvidia card on linux if you use software rendering
11:29:47 <TrueBrain> AVG 2012 advises me to restart Firefox, as it is using a HUGE amount of memory (404 MiB) .. that at least is what AVG considers HUGE :P
11:31:12 <MINM> too much if you ask me >.>
11:32:59 <TrueBrain> avg uses ... 20 MiB
11:38:06 <MINM> what happened to huge clunky av-s who ate all your ram and cpu?
11:38:45 <Alberth> AVG recommended it to be killed perhaps?
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13:00:43 <V453000> not that openttd is the topic here all the time :P
13:01:11 <andythenorth> how do I exclude bulk cargos?
13:01:18 <andythenorth> afaik there's no way to do it :(
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13:11:02 <andythenorth> can I build powered trailers in an articulated rv?
13:17:43 <frosch123> trailers have neither weight nor power
13:17:52 <frosch123> you can only change the properties of the front vehicle
13:28:38 <dihedral> this world is way to quiet today ...
13:38:21 * andythenorth was actually writing nfo
13:38:35 <andythenorth> and will be biab
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13:41:46 <dihedral> you've got to be kidding Eddi|zuHause
13:42:10 <Eddi|zuHause> never calculate anything involving numbers beyond 4...
13:43:57 <Alberth> why calculate at all, write (30/5) instead :)
13:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i did, you see? :)
13:47:34 <Alberth> why do you care about the value then?
14:02:19 <Eddi|zuHause> in case andy ever comes back: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/tram.txt (at the bottom)
14:03:02 <Alberth> he probably does, he seems to be walking in and out the entire day :)
14:20:31 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... updated with alternate version
14:22:34 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: now add graphics for the other orientations :p
14:23:40 <Eddi|zuHause> the (b) variant matches CETS scale, the (a) variant is slightly shortened
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14:32:32 <Alberth> nice start for an ASCII art climate :p
14:33:58 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: only each letter is about 1 pixel :)
14:34:33 <Alberth> oh, you have extra zoom too? nice!
14:36:18 <KOPOBA> where openttd.cfg located?
14:36:43 <Alberth> depends on your operating system, it is all written in the README document
14:39:13 <z-MaTRiX> uniq -d <(sort <(sed -E 's;[ ]*[0-9]+[ ]+(.*);\1;' <(history)))
14:39:36 <z-MaTRiX> print repeated commands list without pipe
14:40:47 <Eddi|zuHause> and <() is not a pipe?
14:41:36 <Eddi|zuHause> of course it's the sam...
14:42:03 <Eddi|zuHause> it's just written backwards
14:42:21 <Eddi|zuHause> "a | b" is equivalent to "b <(a)"
14:42:50 <z-MaTRiX> history | sed -E 's;[ ]*[0-9]+[ ]+(.*);\1;' | sort | uniq -d
14:43:11 <Alberth> some people like to write things backwards,
14:43:52 <Eddi|zuHause> like ostlandr...
14:51:25 <z-MaTRiX> (sort <(sed -E 's;[ ]*[0-9]+[ ]+(.*);\1;' <(history)))> >(uniq -d)
14:55:06 <TrueBrain> how to make statements as unreadable as possible?
14:56:31 <Alberth> use a C++ template :)
14:57:17 <z-MaTRiX> uniq -d <((sed -E 's;[ ]*[0-9]+[ ]+(.*);\1;' <(history))> >(sort))
14:57:24 <z-MaTRiX> process substitution playground ;>
14:58:10 <z-MaTRiX> TrueBrain<< what language?
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14:58:17 <Alberth> lol, even the C++ compiler starts to suggest things: error: "...‘max’ was not declared.." -> "...note: suggested alternative: ... ‘std::max’"
15:01:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, it has been telling things like "suggest () around &"
15:01:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (but usually that meant you forgot () elsewhere)
15:05:17 <TrueBrain> still, suggesting std::max when you use max, is of another type of suggestion
15:05:31 <TrueBrain> what is next ... when you use DX it suggests to use OpenGL? :P
15:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> when you compile on mac it suggests compiling on linux? :p
15:22:10 <Alberth> 'you should have dinner now' :D
15:22:19 <Alberth> which seems like a good suggestion :)
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15:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> civ4 had something like a "get some snacks" 'tip'
15:26:35 <Terkhen> for civ4 I would like a "close after X turns" option
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15:47:17 <Michel> 32bb projects is that still gowing on ?
15:59:59 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos chuck...
16:28:55 <b_jonas> wow, this ship unloads iron ore quite fast
16:29:31 <b_jonas> good thing I have a crane tile next to the dock for showing that
16:29:48 <z-MaTRiX> just open a door below, iron-ore will fall out
16:30:11 <Alberth> and water pours in :p
16:30:41 <z-MaTRiX> you can close it before water pours in
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17:04:08 <KillerByte> I just edited the Main Wiki test page, and it hasent appeared to be updated to the main wiki page for oever a year. I just made a change of my own and am wondering if somone is willing to sync it.
17:04:50 <KOPOBA> can someone advice good font for ottd? default looks ugly =\ and cute fixedsys dont how large sizes =(
17:06:43 <peter1138> fixedsys... cute... what?
17:11:48 <blathijs> KillerByte: Terminus is an awesome terminal font, perhaps you'll like that
17:12:45 <KillerByte> I am killerbyte, I am asking about the wiki page being updated
17:12:56 <KillerByte> the main page to be specific
17:18:38 <Alberth> there were some problems with the wiki DB, not sure whether they are resolved yet
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17:35:34 <glx> it failed to found it I think
17:35:59 <__ln__> in english you need to use the auxiliary verb 'do' in most questions.
17:37:38 <Alberth> KOPOBA: just entering the error in the google search bar is often enough to find discussions or solutions
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17:43:37 <KOPOBA> Alberth there is nothing usefull
17:45:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23062 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt:
17:45:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:07 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: tamil - 236 changes by aswn
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19:06:44 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*cos(pi/12)
19:06:44 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 467.508099924
19:07:02 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(1-cos(pi/12))
19:07:02 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 16.4919000761
19:07:12 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(sin(pi/12))
19:07:12 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 125.26841783
19:08:46 <frosch123> you are lucky it uses radians
19:09:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i would have noticed that :p
19:09:33 <frosch123> i never type any sin or cos into any kind of calculator before verifying that :)
19:09:35 <Eddi|zuHause> (it would also be really weird if it didn't)
19:12:29 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(sin(pi/12))+30*cos(pi/12)
19:12:29 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 154.246192618
19:13:00 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(1-cos(pi/12))+30*sin(pi/12)
19:13:00 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 24.2564714292
19:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(sin(pi/12))+50*cos(pi/12)
19:13:25 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 173.564709144
19:13:32 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 484*(1-cos(pi/12))+50*sin(pi/12)
19:13:32 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 29.4328523312
19:13:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds better
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19:30:40 <planetmaker> frosch123: your name partner is doing a better job at hiding ;-)
19:30:51 <planetmaker> at least in plain sight :-P
19:31:36 <MINM> mehh, spotted it at once
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20:56:59 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23063 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_text.cpp table/control_codes.h): -Add: [NewGRF] stringscodes 9A 19 and 9A 20 to print 'short volume' and 'short weight' respectively
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20:58:24 <Yexo> right, after 19 follows 1A, not 20 :p
21:00:14 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: yexo * r23064 /trunk/src/newgrf_text.cpp: -Fix (r23062): incrementing hexadecimal numbers is hard...
21:00:35 <Yexo> and writing the correct revision number in a commit message too .....
21:02:37 * planetmaker gives Yexo one of the left-over pieces of cake as consolation
21:02:53 <Rubidium> oh, I've got some spare cake/pie as well
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21:07:23 <Eddi|zuHause> we should all use the occasion and meet to celebrate r23064 then!
21:08:19 <Alberth> since it is somewhat short notice, let's do that at the internet
21:08:59 <Alberth> unfortunately, I have another appointment already with my bed
21:12:36 * planetmaker got a similar appointment and wishes also a good night
21:21:02 <Eddi|zuHause> i never keep appointments...
21:25:35 <z-MaTRiX> p=printf\ ;a="The Matrix has you...";for i in $(eval $p'%s\\n' '{0..'"${#a}}"'' ) ;do $p'%c' "${a:i}";sleep .$(($RANDOM*20));done;$p\\n
21:31:03 <TrueBrain> you and your silly scripts
21:34:30 <z-MaTRiX> they would like to teach bash
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22:30:30 <__ln__> we're operating within normal parameters
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22:49:08 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__ watched too much startrek again
22:50:48 <MINM> just as long as his warp drive doesn't come online
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23:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... time switch tonight
23:19:36 <__ln__> finally the hour back that was stolen by society
23:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> it doesn't really matter much, tomorrow is sunday and monday is holiday
23:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that heavily depends on your location :p
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23:29:04 <dihedral> where is monday the holiday then?
23:29:23 <dihedral> 'cause in my location monday is not a holiday
23:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> 31.10. is "reformation day" (in majorly protestantic areas)
23:35:50 <Eddi|zuHause> (especially east and north germany)
23:40:54 <__ln__> never heard of such day before, although i've heard about the Luther person
23:42:37 <supermop__-> never heard of it in the US
23:44:51 <__ln__> dear germany, please stop celebrating a day others haven't heard of.
23:48:56 <dihedral> i know may the 4th as star wars day :-P
23:54:44 <__ln__> i've looked into Luther's office, but he wasn't there. maybe i was ~450 years late or something.
continue to next day ⏵
