IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-10-28
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00:25:09 <daniel_> password
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00:37:15 <DDR> Currently running through about one/week, here.
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06:07:53 <Elukka> jesus christ
06:08:03 <Elukka> i wanted to do some texturing and then i opened blender and lost all urge to work in 2 minutes
06:08:31 <Elukka> "ui conventions? nnnnnaaah, we don't need those"
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06:51:39 <Zuu> Elukka: They possible decided to invent their own conventions :-)
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07:07:42 <planetmaker> moin
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07:18:08 <Celestar> hail peops
07:21:28 <Xaroth> hail
07:22:57 <Ammler> orudge: no chance to setup forwards from ttdpatch wiki to tt-wiki?
07:23:29 <Ammler> instead just linking to
07:24:12 <Ammler> e.g.
07:26:42 <Ammler> and good morning :-)
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08:05:21 <planetmaker> moin Ammler :)
08:05:32 <planetmaker> found the broken links on the base cost grf page? ;-)
08:05:48 <z-MaTRiX> hiii
08:05:49 <z-MaTRiX> :)
08:07:48 <planetmaker> hi z-MaTRiX
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08:14:45 <z-MaTRiX> (2/0)/(1/0)= ?
08:15:55 <planetmaker> exactly
08:16:33 <z-MaTRiX> i'd say 2
08:16:48 <DDR_> I'd go with one.
08:16:52 <planetmaker> you can only try to make a statement on a value, if you have a limit to consider. Could be -2 as well. Or something else. Depends on how fast the limits approach 0
08:16:58 <DDR_> 2/0 and 1/0 are both infinity...
08:17:13 <planetmaker> both is undefined. Not infinity ;-)
08:17:20 <DDR_> And I know that something divided by itself is 1.
08:17:25 <DDR_> planetmaker: I defined it. :P
08:17:26 <z-MaTRiX> 0 is named zero, and is a representation of the number halfway between (-1) and (1) ON the one-dimensional number-line.
08:17:30 <z-MaTRiX> it is not nothing
08:17:46 <DDR_> Besides, the beauty is that we don't HAVE to define it!
08:18:14 <planetmaker> DDR_: division by zero is undefined, also 0/0 ;-)
08:18:22 <z-MaTRiX> Any number divided by itself equals 1.
08:18:29 <z-MaTRiX> => 0/0 = 1
08:18:37 <planetmaker> as there cannot be a sensible definition even. And ^ is correct for |R \ {0}
08:18:43 <DDR_> I'm working in a programming language that defined infinity as the largest number you can store in a 32-bit integer.
08:18:55 <DDR_> For all intents and purposes, it seems to work /wonderfully/. :P
08:19:25 <planetmaker> x / x^2 for x=0 != 0 but infinity
08:19:25 <DDR_> z-MaTRiX: Sold. :)
08:19:27 <z-MaTRiX> 1/0 != 2/0
08:19:33 <z-MaTRiX> ;>
08:19:39 <planetmaker> exactly
08:19:44 <DDR_> The important thing is that you're consistent about it, and that you don't look too closely.
08:19:57 <planetmaker> as with 0/0 = 1 can can also prove 1=2
08:20:24 <DDR_> 1+1=3, for large enough values of 1.
08:20:25 <z-MaTRiX> 0*0 != 0*1 != 0*2 ...
08:20:48 <z-MaTRiX> add imaginary part
08:20:49 <planetmaker> you can only ever work with limits if you try to divide by 0. Otherwise all statements of blah / 0 = whatever are meaningless
08:21:55 <z-MaTRiX> how about
08:22:03 <z-MaTRiX> 1/0 = 1z(inf)
08:22:03 <z-MaTRiX> 2/0 = 2z(inf)
08:22:03 <z-MaTRiX> (2/0)/(1/0)=2z(inf)/1z(inf)=2
08:23:06 <z-MaTRiX> 1z(inf)*0 = 1
08:27:41 <z-MaTRiX> (2*0) / (1*0) = 2z(0) / 1z(0) = 2
08:27:47 <orudge> Ammler: how strange, I'm not sure why that's happened
08:28:08 <orudge> may have to get patchman to update IP addresses, I guess
08:28:16 <orudge> there was a redirect on there before, anyway
08:28:37 <Terkhen> good morning
08:31:11 <Ammler> planetmaker: I have lots of links to the old grf wiki, that is why I ask for forward :-P
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08:35:19 <planetmaker> Ammler, run a bot over the wiki and replace all by or so ;-)
08:35:23 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
08:35:39 <z-MaTRiX> sed?
08:35:40 <z-MaTRiX> :)
08:36:04 <planetmaker> z-MaTRiX, on a wiki?
08:36:09 <z-MaTRiX> anything
08:36:10 <z-MaTRiX> ;<
08:36:15 <Ammler> planetmaker: tt-forums
08:36:29 <planetmaker> from the wiki-bot will do the trick nicely
08:36:44 <Ammler> and I do for sure not learn how to use a wiki bot just to replace some links :-P
08:36:54 * planetmaker did :-P
08:37:00 <Ammler> you made a bit more
08:37:13 <planetmaker> but I have ne coop wiki family specs so far
08:39:18 <Ammler> well, as long as people blame owen instead me for the broken links ;-)
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09:10:57 <orudge> Ammler: well, the links will be fixed shortly, just need to speak to patchman
09:20:12 <Ammler> isn't your domain?
09:22:37 <Eddi|zuHause> <planetmaker> Ammler, run a bot over the wiki and replace all by or so ;-) <-- that's treating the symptoms, not the problem
09:32:55 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, and what is the problem?
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09:33:37 <planetmaker> and old un-maintained domain slowly shutting down in pieces? Put onto life support for... very little reason?
09:35:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: there are links to all over the internet, you can't fix all of them. and it's really simple to just keep the redirect alive
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09:56:39 <Celestar> \o
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10:35:43 <Ammler> well, at least as long as the domain exists, there is no need to keep/pay for it
10:45:10 <TinoDidriksen> Just "301 Redirect" and everythign will eventually follow...
10:46:03 <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: you might think. Yet 5 years ago we had an URL, and people STILL request it ... while it has been on a 301 for 5 years :D
10:48:12 <planetmaker> TinoDidriksen, why would I update my bookmark (or actually my memory) just because a browser re-directs a webpage - something I might not even notice or care about?
10:48:36 <TrueBrain> that is the result, yeah :P
10:48:39 <TrueBrain> a nag-screen does help btw :D
10:48:50 <TrueBrain> nobody loads these days :D
10:49:29 <planetmaker> :-)
10:49:53 <TrueBrain> I lied ...
10:49:59 <TrueBrain> @calc 713 / 577972
10:49:59 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.00123362377416
10:50:02 <TrueBrain> @calc 713 / 577972 * 100
10:50:02 <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 0.123362377416
10:50:07 <TrueBrain> 0.12% still opens :P
10:51:19 <TrueBrain> still the 301 .... haha :D
11:01:09 <planetmaker>,45612,2561554.html <-- nice... so much for EULA and about conforming to legal requirements
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11:12:57 <Terkhen> heh
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11:14:33 <Terkhen> EA is always doing stupid things
11:14:45 <Terkhen> I didn't buy the original Mass Effect bacause of the crazy DRM it had
11:14:54 <Terkhen> and now this
11:15:58 <blathijs> Also, I don't actually get the idea that any of this DRM crap stops games from being pirated...
11:16:29 <TinoDidriksen> ME1 had DRM?
11:17:24 <Terkhen> TinoDidriksen: yes, it only allowed you to install the game five times IIRC
11:17:27 <planetmaker> blathijs, it stops the occasional pirate. Not the 'dedicated'
11:17:43 <planetmaker> But to stop the 'occasional' pirate, that's overshooting by quite a margin.
11:17:49 <TinoDidriksen>, I have it via Steam, which has no such limit.
11:18:04 <Terkhen> blathijs: other game with the same DRM than Mass Effect was pirated a day before release, so... it doesn't
11:18:24 <blathijs> planetmaker: What's an "occasional pirate", then?
11:18:56 <Terkhen> TinoDidriksen: I bought it years after, they ended up removing that DRM
11:19:05 <planetmaker> blathijs, the one who'd just take it, if it means no effort
11:19:19 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: "non-conforming" EULA parts are automatically void.
11:19:20 <Terkhen> also, you can consider Steam as a form of DRM... but at least it is one I can live with
11:19:39 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I know. But what point is it, if 90% of the EULA are void? As outlined there?
11:20:06 <planetmaker> (and the article also explains so, ... shouldn't I haven't know it before)
11:21:36 <peter1138> so
11:21:36 <peter1138> er
11:21:41 <peter1138> what does that article say?
11:22:06 <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, not quite far ahead to the specifics yet...
11:27:25 <peter1138> maybe google translate will help
11:27:35 <planetmaker> peter1138, basically a lawyer analysis EA's EULA for the "origin" "copyright protection" as is going to be used by EA from now on
11:27:41 <Celestar> basically the whole EULA is illegal :P
11:27:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i doubt that, it's quite legal specific stuff.
11:28:14 <Eddi|zuHause> google translate will probably just result in gibberish
11:28:26 <planetmaker> The result basically is, that every single paragraph of that EULA is illegal, surprising or too detrimental for customers, each of the reasons along rendering it void.
11:29:19 <planetmaker> And as the EULA goes, they basically grant themselves the right to completely monitor your computer and communications and publish all such gathered information in order to protect their copyright
11:29:45 <planetmaker> oh, and to transmit these gathered data to any country in the world as they see fit, too
11:30:16 <b_jonas> only that? they don't even mention the user's first born child?
11:30:21 <planetmaker> and to exclude any means of appeal or any liability far beyond what law allows
11:30:35 <b_jonas> what kind of lenient eula is that?
11:30:43 <b_jonas> (cf. )
11:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and to use these data for marketing purposes
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11:33:44 <planetmaker> also. Though they seem to have removed that half-sentence.
11:35:08 <Celestar> well
11:35:18 <Celestar> closed-source shit.
11:37:06 <z-MaTRiX>
11:37:09 <z-MaTRiX> :)
11:37:39 <MINM> probably a dutchman who built that house >.<
11:37:43 <planetmaker> that's not de-motivational. That's tasteless
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11:53:37 <z-MaTRiX> let's see what we have in the fridge to the beer
11:55:22 <Eddi|zuHause> please, stop trying to be funny. it's in your best interest
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12:17:06 <Celestar> hm
12:19:34 <lugo> is there a way to see every file-upload a user has done on the forums?
12:20:08 <lugo> i'm sure i've seen a water airport done by aegir and wanted to post a link to that thread in the recent discussion..
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13:50:23 <Belugas> hello
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13:54:55 <Belugas> lugo, i doubt you can
13:55:21 <Belugas> you should try searching the posts with different keywords
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13:57:25 <MINM> hmmmmh
13:57:50 <MINM> the screenshots on the OTTD site could deserve some new ones from 1.1.3
14:00:59 <peter1138> make some nice ones
14:02:25 <MINM> am doing that right now.
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14:03:59 <Belugas> hint: don't make ones that are showing off your skills, but ones that show how cool OTTD is
14:04:41 <Belugas> and ones that do not show stuff that can be done on TTDPatch, there are some poor souls quite sensible to that...
14:04:42 <MINM> skills?
14:04:50 <MINM> what are those?
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14:13:04 <MINM>
14:13:07 <MINM> how bout that?
14:13:22 <MINM> lol
14:14:22 <MINM> I did have some old maps with pretty f'ing heavy traffic that could qualify as that, with rather complicated junctions with integrated stations
14:14:35 <MINM> ehh, can you actually see that link?
14:14:44 <MINM> I think I forgot to remove the comma from the file name
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14:20:07 <MINM>
14:20:12 <MINM> should be fixed now
14:22:40 <TrueBrain> hmm, dutch train set <3
14:22:51 <Belugas> newgrf... mb will hit you with a ton of bricks
14:23:05 <Belugas> on the other side, who cares what he says...
14:23:11 <TrueBrain> ^^
14:23:18 <TrueBrain> if we did care, OpenTTD would be a dead project by now
14:23:20 <MINM> isn't dutch trainset, is 2cc with primary yellow and secundary blue colours :D
14:23:41 <TrueBrain> MINM: in result, the trains are dutch :P
14:23:50 <MINM> true. that was my intention, after all
14:23:57 <MINM> even if the landscape is far from dutch
14:24:06 <TrueBrain> or city names
14:24:11 <TrueBrain> the NS extended its coverage ;)
14:24:15 <MINM> actually, that specific model train that runs the line is dutch, too
14:24:48 <MINM> that game is from before I figured out how to enable town name grfs >.<
14:24:55 <MINM> considering I did so only this week :D
14:24:56 <Eddi|zuHause> didn't they want to build a 2000m high mountain? :p
14:25:12 <MINM> eh, not sure if april foolds
14:25:14 <MINM> *fools
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14:25:22 <MINM> silly fingers, what are you doing with that D?
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14:26:37 <MINM> hmmmh.
14:26:46 <MINM> let's hunt another pretty picture.
14:28:11 <MINM> in my games I try to use trains from as close to the Netherlands as possible, except where I can't avoid it (dutch trains don't go well with mountains, apparently, who would have thought?)
14:28:44 <TrueBrain> lol
14:28:49 <TrueBrain> 1 leaf on the rails and they come to a stand-still
14:30:45 <MINM> well, nowadays it's not leaves, but copper theft
14:31:45 <TrueBrain> that is one thing they really can't help :)
14:31:55 <TrueBrain> without copper, trains simply don't run :)
14:32:29 <Prof_Frink> Just keep all the cables live.
14:33:10 <MINM> they do
14:33:29 <MINM> apparently copper is valuable enough nowadays to steal it from live running wires
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14:33:53 <MINM> also, signaling is done with copper, if I'm not mistaken
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14:36:13 <Terkhen> some people here have died while trying to steal copper
14:38:35 * Belugas ears are dry. timwe to get them wet with some music
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14:49:53 <MINM> "Can't change volume inside OpenTTD [FS#4416]"
14:49:58 <MINM> listed under known bugs
14:50:06 <MINM> I thought already that this was a feature, lol
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15:11:05 <orudge> Ammler: (and should now be working again, now on the tt-forums server :)
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15:34:18 <Sacro> MINM: no, we use fibre mostly now
15:34:23 <Sacro> but they just damage it :(
15:34:31 <MINM> in the netherlands?
15:34:53 <Belugas> Sacro is not on the continent
15:37:05 <Sacro> we have our own little island over here
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15:40:38 <MINM> ahh
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15:57:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro^: need bigger signs that say "this is not a copper cable"
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15:59:54 <Sacro^> Eddi|zuHause: I think they've got that far, they just damage it to be twats
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17:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r23060 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/tamil.txt:
17:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:09 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: tamil - 124 changes by aswn
17:45:16 <Terkhen> big
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17:59:39 <Belugas> TIME
17:59:48 <Belugas> big time...
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18:49:48 <andythenorth> did I miss much?
18:50:11 <Belugas> me?
18:50:24 <andythenorth> a bit
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19:17:35 <Celestar> o
19:18:03 <Rubidium> i
19:18:06 <Celestar> lol
19:18:09 <Celestar> sorry :P
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20:28:57 <andythenorth> meh
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20:40:03 <frosch123> haha, so that 5000 vehicle game uses a grf version 1 grf :p
20:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's... unfortunate :p
20:41:29 <Eddi|zuHause> we should build more grfs that will deactivate themselves in future versions :p
20:42:25 <frosch123> yay, the 2kx2k map is maybe 0.0001% filled
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20:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> i can imagine 5000 is quite a low limit for RVs
20:43:38 <frosch123> well, the pf won't cause a problem, when roads branch only every 200 tiles or so
20:43:47 <Terkhen> those are still around?
20:44:06 <frosch123> Terkhen: 1.1.x still works with them
20:44:11 <Terkhen> heh :P
20:44:22 <frosch123> and it is on bananas
20:45:13 <frosch123> that game is actually funny with trunk. it says missing grf, and when opening the "find missing grfs online" it says "you already have this" :p
20:45:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: it's mostly malformed newer grfs, not actual grf version 1
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20:45:51 <Terkhen> I see :)
20:46:07 <frosch123> i am not even sure whether there was ever a grf with version 0 or 1 "released"
20:49:24 <frosch123> august 2002 to july 2003
20:49:36 <frosch123> grf version 1 introduced action 8 btw :p
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20:54:07 <andythenorth> let's deprecate newgrf
20:54:11 <andythenorth> then our lives will be improved
20:55:22 <Belugas> hem... really?
20:55:48 <Belugas> is newgrf related somehow with my basement?
20:55:58 <Belugas> or... my work@work?
20:56:07 <Rubidium> lets deprecate and axe all network code. That will make our live much easier ;)
20:56:14 <Belugas> :D
20:56:16 <Belugas> YEAH!
20:56:20 <andythenorth> all network code in the world?
20:56:23 <andythenorth> or just in ottd?
20:56:35 <Rubidium> just the network code related to OpenTTD
20:57:00 <Belugas> nonono... al the code in the world!
20:57:10 <DorpsGek> someone wants to deprecate this channel?
20:57:24 <Belugas> mmh...
20:57:30 <Belugas> boring code them?
20:58:19 <frosch123> well, my software passed the fat yesterday. so it should be fine to deprecate it today :)
20:59:30 <Terkhen> <--- proposal for 1.2.0
21:00:19 <andythenorth> should be easy to port to a wide range of platforms
21:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause> Terkhen: finnally converted to 100% c++!!
21:00:27 <andythenorth> I think I could write a browser-based version of that
21:01:15 <frosch123> the ottd installer does not require 7 dvds, it must be old
21:01:50 <frosch123> we should make a ottd release on bluray
21:01:58 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it doesn't require online registration or DRM
21:02:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: that's what you think :p
21:03:25 <Eddi|zuHause> we should write an EULA that says "we may scan your computer to identify unlicensed software"
21:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause> that's totally "in" right now
21:04:57 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: "we may scan your computer to identify unsupported content" ;)
21:05:02 <Terkhen> :D
21:05:21 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: we will steal your creditcard information ? :)
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21:05:43 <TrueBrain> with signing the iTunes EULA, you agree to be attached to another person for experimentation
21:05:48 <TrueBrain> South Park all over again ...
21:05:53 <frosch123> oh, trojanin left
21:06:02 <frosch123> were was she sent to?
21:06:56 <Rubidium> Ilium?
21:07:48 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I have a favour to ask...
21:08:02 <andythenorth> I need a refit scheme for a cargo tram
21:08:09 <Mazur> Ah, Topless Towers.
21:08:17 <andythenorth> a contemporary one, like the VW one
21:08:46 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, like <A><B>*<A>?
21:09:07 <andythenorth> yes
21:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> let me get back to that tomorrow-ish
21:09:27 <andythenorth> I can do the code, but I am lacking inspiration wrt capacity, number vehicles etc
21:09:44 <Rubidium> 42
21:09:46 <andythenorth> wagon length will be similar to the biggest current tram in HEQS
21:10:07 <andythenorth> Rubidium: you mean 2A :P
21:10:16 <Rubidium> no, 42
21:10:19 <andythenorth> should a modern cargo tram refit to bulk cargos?
21:10:35 <Mazur> \052 ?
21:10:41 <andythenorth>
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21:12:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r23061 /extra/masterserver_updater/src/shared/mysql.cpp: [MSU] -Change: force utf8 connection with the MySQL server
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21:22:36 <andythenorth> real VW cargo tram does 50 km/h, same as the current fastest HEQS trams
21:22:54 <andythenorth> that would give it no gameplay advantage
21:23:03 <andythenorth> how fast should it go?
21:24:00 <supermop_> does it need to go faster?
21:24:30 <Eddi|zuHause> trams rarely go faster than 60-70km/h
21:24:54 <andythenorth> supermop: it needs some reason to exist in game
21:24:59 <andythenorth> graphics are not enough :P
21:25:05 <supermop_> it could have lower running cost?
21:25:11 <supermop_> better load speed?
21:25:20 <andythenorth> both valid, but not compelling
21:25:23 <supermop_> better reliability?
21:25:27 <andythenorth> running costs don't really matter
21:25:38 <__ln__> why does VW have one?
21:25:40 <andythenorth> reliability - lots play with breakdowns off
21:25:51 <andythenorth> __ln__: see the link further up
21:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: because they couldn't get rail access to their factory
21:26:44 <supermop_> i think he means, what are the advantages vw sees in it - your tram could have the same
21:27:01 <__ln__> exactly
21:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't really apply
21:27:45 <DDR_> VW put it in because they couldn't put their trucks on the road without causing congestion.
21:27:48 <andythenorth> UK trams seem to be 80km/h
21:27:54 <Eddi|zuHause> as the current heqs "trams" wouldn't have been an alternative
21:28:01 <DDR_> However, since tram tracks run on roads in OpenTTD, there's no advantage.
21:28:55 <__ln__> you can build tram tracks without roads in ottd.
21:30:16 <andythenorth> alicante has 100km/h trams
21:30:47 <Elukka>
21:31:10 <Elukka> "The Electroliners were cleverly designed to operate with the high platforms, sharp curves, and narrow clearances of the Chicago Loop and the Chicago 'L', to run at speeds of 80 miles per hour (130 km/h) or more on the North Shore's main line, and to make their way up Milwaukee city streets to the North Shore Milwaukee Terminal in downtown Milwaukee."
21:31:11 <Eddi|zuHause> some german cities have "Stadtbahn" which is something inbetween a tram and a commuter rail
21:32:10 <__ln__> three finnish towns used to have trams -- today only one still has them.
21:32:14 <Eddi|zuHause> and then there's hybrid trams that can operate as regular railways
21:32:22 <frosch123> does the unrealistic train set feature a cargo trams with a rocket engine?
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21:32:50 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: it would be an unrealistic tram set then
21:33:15 <Elukka> i've had something inbetween a tram line and commuter rail in openttd
21:33:27 <V453000> unrealism!
21:33:44 <Elukka> buses were not enough to handle the passengers of one big city so i built single track rail lines through the middle
21:33:52 <Elukka> with small stations and EMUs
21:34:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: new route type: tramtraintrack
21:34:08 <andythenorth> :P
21:34:15 <supermop_> well
21:34:26 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: well... dreams :p
21:34:39 <andythenorth> what would it do?
21:34:47 <andythenorth> other than require an ugly transition tile?
21:34:54 <supermop_> perhaps there would be a roadtype overlay for narrow and standard gauges
21:35:48 <supermop_> with all sorts of trains running down trucks i guess
21:35:53 <V453000> Trains on Roads: Dumbness reborn? Stupidity of a train combined with stupidity of a tram? Getting closer to ship intelligence levels :D
21:36:50 <supermop_> highline was built in New York because people kept getting run over by the industrial trains that ran between factories and warehouses on the streets
21:37:01 <supermop_> and now its a nice park
21:37:17 <Elukka> i've seen photos of standard gauge trains running on city streets
21:37:43 <Elukka> in the US and... czech republic, i think
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21:39:17 <Elukka>
21:39:37 <V453000> havent seen a train in the street ever
21:39:40 <V453000> (I am czech)
21:39:51 <TrueBrain> but the question is
21:39:54 <TrueBrain> have you ever been outside?
21:40:04 <V453000> :D
21:40:12 <V453000> where?
21:40:12 <MINM> well, in older ages this was far more common.
21:40:13 <V453000> :P
21:40:17 <Elukka> don't trust my memory too much
21:40:48 <Elukka> i just remember reading it was czech, but i'm not sure
21:40:53 <MINM> most harbour cities did, for example, antwerp
21:40:53 <Elukka> i can throw you a picture though
21:41:03 <Eddi|zuHause> the narrow gauge "Harzquerbahn" has a section where it's running on the streets in Wernigerode
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21:41:27 <Elukka>
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21:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> or at least it used to, i think they rebuilt the road there now
21:42:09 <V453000> that is a czech train indeed Elukka
21:42:47 <andythenorth>
21:43:09 <andythenorth>
21:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> "after successfully establishing a monopoly on map data, google is now charging for use of its api"
21:45:08 <andythenorth> yup
21:45:21 <andythenorth> except for the lots of app developers who are switching to MS bing
21:45:27 <andythenorth> which is free....for now
21:45:39 <TrueBrain> and MS is doing DMCA Takedown of open source projects that use the Skype API
21:45:42 <TrueBrain> I love this world ...
21:46:17 <andythenorth> it's a happy place
21:46:23 <TrueBrain> greed is good
21:46:48 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess "do no evil" is one of these good intentions that never actually survive new years day
21:46:51 <andythenorth> I for one feel sorry for google
21:46:56 <andythenorth> and their lack of revenues
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21:47:36 <Eddi|zuHause> i couldn't care less about googles revenues
21:48:24 * andythenorth wonders what 900kW is in real money
21:48:42 <andythenorth> 'quite a lot'
21:49:00 <andythenorth> one thing the CarGo tram could do is go up hills faster :P
21:49:13 <andythenorth> it's 1,200hp, or more depending on number of wagons
21:49:23 <Eddi|zuHause> you know how google is dangerous to modern society? since the appearence of gmail fewer and fewer people have the knowledge how to set up a mailserver. and if google's advertising-based market suddenly breaks away, it'll draw a hole into society
21:50:19 <andythenorth> that, and if we lost search, we'd face a traumatic loss of access to trivia
21:51:07 <Elukka> there are a tonne of free mail services besides gmail and also a tonne of other perfectly functional search engines
21:51:24 <Eddi|zuHause> this is actually true for lots of "clouds"
21:51:27 <Elukka> if google went under then others would gain a huge surge of popularity
21:51:47 <Eddi|zuHause> once you rely on them, you're lost if they suddenly break away
21:51:48 <andythenorth> went under? I think someone would pick over the bigs
21:51:52 <andythenorth> bits /s
21:52:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: imagine an energy crisis
21:52:37 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: who could afford running huge datacenters?
21:53:01 <andythenorth> just do search slower :P
21:53:09 <andythenorth> there would be fewer users then
21:53:17 <andythenorth> time sharing?
21:53:29 <andythenorth> answers by carrier pigeon?
21:53:35 * andythenorth codes a bit of tram
21:53:41 <andythenorth> this will be fun
21:54:03 <andythenorth> we (I?) will have to set HP according to number of wagons
21:54:12 <andythenorth> as RVs have no idea about powered wagons
21:54:19 <andythenorth> cb36 is always pleasing
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21:57:07 <Eddi|zuHause> that should be easy, just check on cargo-subtype, and give different results
21:58:41 <andythenorth> yup
21:58:43 <andythenorth> it's fun
21:58:48 * andythenorth ponders
21:59:10 <andythenorth> for grf version 8(?) could we ditch the tiresome things like 'weight in 1/4 tons', speed * 3.2 ?
21:59:27 <Eddi|zuHause> use nml :)
21:59:31 <andythenorth> I mean, it's fun to do the calculations every time, but I'm wearing out certain keys
21:59:36 <andythenorth> nml takes the fun away
21:59:43 <andythenorth> nml is just like writing code
22:00:10 <andythenorth> if I want to write code, I might as well write code I'm going to get paid for
22:00:23 <andythenorth> I like nfo, it's arcane and pointless, thereby fun
22:00:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i let my code write code...
22:00:42 <andythenorth> code generators are eviiiil
22:01:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. *pets cat*
22:02:06 <andythenorth> so what is the point of action 0 prop 15 for RVs?
22:03:58 <andythenorth> ah
22:04:03 <andythenorth> that's the one that sets speed :P
22:04:14 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: can set speed 4 times higher than prop 08
22:04:14 <andythenorth> it's prop 08 that's redundant
22:04:41 * andythenorth hits the upper limit of prop 14 (again)
22:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> can't cb36 override that with higher values?
22:05:50 <andythenorth> probably
22:05:53 <Eddi|zuHause> and why can't articulated parts have weight?
22:07:21 <andythenorth> ask Terkhen
22:08:01 <andythenorth> is 50mph too fast for a freight tram, and is it too much of a speed jump?
22:08:07 * andythenorth thinks it might be interesting
22:08:18 <Eddi|zuHause> what's that in real world speeds?
22:08:25 <andythenorth> 80km/h
22:08:33 <andythenorth> introduced 2010
22:08:36 <andythenorth> oops
22:08:36 <andythenorth> 2001
22:08:47 <andythenorth> most players will have switched trams to trucks by then
22:08:54 <andythenorth> so it will be just nicley annoying
22:08:59 <Elukka> i think freight trams would make the most sense with YACD and FIRS... though YACD kinda sounds like it won't be finished
22:09:27 <andythenorth> freight trams make sense anywhere you want transfers ;)
22:10:42 <Eddi|zuHause> there are no sensible truck sets :(
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22:11:05 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: if we sorted out RVs I would make one
22:11:14 <andythenorth> for as long as RVs remain crappy, I'm not bothering
22:11:51 <Mazur> Don't worry, worthwhile RV's will be coming.
22:12:12 <andythenorth> ?
22:12:51 * andythenorth wonders how to annoyingly exclude bulk cargo in the new tram
22:12:57 <andythenorth> it's too late to work out bit masks
22:13:10 <andythenorth> maybe tomorrow :P
22:13:20 <andythenorth> also grain and stuff
22:13:21 <andythenorth> hmm
22:13:31 <andythenorth> this refit mask will be an arse probably
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22:15:50 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: the CarGo tram capacity is 15t for trailers, 7.5t for cab cars, which seems good
22:16:03 <andythenorth> the current biggest HEQS tram is 20t per wagon
22:16:21 <andythenorth> so the modern one will be faster, more powerful, lower capacity
22:16:26 <andythenorth> ideal for express cargo in town :)
22:16:39 <Eddi|zuHause> so no bulk cargo then?
22:16:43 <andythenorth> I don't think so
22:17:03 <Elukka> LV4 has worthwhile trucks
22:17:07 <andythenorth> keep using the old tram (lower speed, higher capacity) or mining trucks
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22:18:53 <andythenorth> hmm
22:19:06 <andythenorth> wtf? I get new heads on the HEQS repo
22:19:08 <andythenorth> how tiresome
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22:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> hg pull && hg rebase
22:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hg pull -u && hg rebase
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22:33:26 <andythenorth> I did pull before writing code
22:33:30 <andythenorth> and before committing :(
22:33:35 <andythenorth> merge fixed it
22:33:48 <andythenorth> strange
22:33:52 <Eddi|zuHause> not only pull, but also update
22:34:07 <andythenorth> yup - I always use hg pull -u ;)
22:34:18 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you forgot? :)
22:34:21 <andythenorth> the rollback I did must have added new heads
22:34:30 <andythenorth> why does a rollback create a head?
22:35:14 <andythenorth> hmm
22:35:15 <frosch123> andythenorth: do "hg pull --rebase"
22:35:22 <andythenorth> maybe I rolled back my last commit :P
22:35:26 <andythenorth> instead of the add
22:35:38 <Yexo> that is quite possible
22:35:41 <andythenorth> possibly I just removed some useful code from HEQS :)
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22:36:31 <Yexo> you didn't, head is now r661 which is the merge between r659 and r660. r660 has r658 as parent
22:36:43 <Yexo> so if you did rollback before you started working this has indeed happened
22:36:55 <Yexo> since r659 was only adding a tag the merge was done automatically
22:36:59 <Yexo> and nothing is list
22:37:08 <andythenorth> so what is the correct way to undo an add?
22:37:17 <andythenorth> forget?
22:37:18 <Yexo> revert
22:37:28 <andythenorth> hmm
22:37:29 <andythenorth> ok
22:37:45 <Yexo> "hg forget" == "hg remove -Af"
22:37:52 <andythenorth> I should have committed the changes I wanted to keep, and reverted the add
22:38:26 <andythenorth> nvm
22:38:31 * andythenorth -> bed
22:38:36 <andythenorth> good night
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22:44:18 <Terkhen> good night
22:45:51 <Mazur> If you wish.
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23:32:22 <tas_t_ice> is the in-game server list busted?
23:37:23 <Mazur> No.
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