IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-09-26
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06:56:30 <norbert79> Thank you for asking, got a cold, tired, but ok. You?
06:57:59 <Markk> Ah, thay sucks, I had a cold/flu for 2-3 weeks ago and just started to get better.
06:58:11 <Markk> It's the coldseason. :)
06:59:26 <Markk> It only takes a couple of days to fetch a cold, but you're tired and sheitbfor weeks afterwards.
07:00:24 <Markk> I'm quite fine, especially for being a monday and all.
07:03:12 <appe> sounds like german zombie sickness
07:16:36 * norbert79 is listening to Skeewiff - Farsky And Cratch @ [192kbps]
07:20:36 * norbert79 is listening to Skeewiff - Cop Show @ [192kbps]
07:23:05 <norbert79> Aw, crhist... I need to turn this off
07:29:14 <appe> we all celebrate the joy of knowing what bitrate your mp3s have.
07:29:50 <norbert79> appe: It came with the default script, since it worked well, I didn't feel really changing it
07:30:14 <norbert79> But got it disabled by now, so you are again forced into the Unknown :)
07:30:47 <appe> it's like people who (six times an hour) paste the specs of the computer.
07:31:00 <appe> I FELT SO INTAREZTED LOL
07:31:18 <norbert79> Actually automatic announce was turned off, yet it showed up... Guess why I got angry
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09:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... interesting idea, problematic idea: 1) remove time-dependency for station rating, 2) reduce rating each time cargo is added to station (production, transfer), 3) increase rating each time cargo is taken away, 4) reduce rating if cargo couldn't be loaded because the train is full
09:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> (certainly needs some tweaking to handle both low-throughput and high-throughput stations sensibly)
09:31:32 <appe> the CERN/Gran Sasso OPERA experiment papers just got peer-reviewed.
09:32:07 <appe> except being the fastest peer-review in history, it seems like we have to re-define what the speed of light is, in relative to small masses of matter like this, or types of matter like this.
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10:09:52 <Eddi|zuHause> llugo: i don't see why not
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10:11:26 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what's wrong with my music?
10:17:54 <llugo> conditions of point 2 in that table could also be altered :), like 0, 2, 5 or so but that might be a matter of taste
10:20:11 <Eddi|zuHause> llugo: yes, but imho that doesn't go far enough
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12:38:22 <z-MaTRiX> about 1GB installed, and a hello world is 1MB compiled in binary
12:38:59 <norbert79> z-MaTRiX: I think the size speaks for itself...
12:39:24 <z-MaTRiX> but its a fully functional and recursive language
12:39:44 <norbert79> And it would need 1 MB for just a damn Hello World from the memory...
12:40:01 <norbert79> Imagine the same fro the whole code being rewritten...
12:40:03 <z-MaTRiX> and 1.4MB for a raytracer program
12:40:43 <norbert79> I think the size still speaks for itself... Bloated
12:41:29 <norbert79> And I still don1t see any additional features, yet just more work
12:41:30 <z-MaTRiX> yes pretty high level
12:41:50 <z-MaTRiX> well it features functional programming
12:42:03 <norbert79> Good luck converting 100%
12:42:23 <z-MaTRiX> type Vector3 = (Float, Float, Float)
12:42:29 <z-MaTRiX> add :: Vector3 -> Vector3 -> Vector3
12:42:29 <z-MaTRiX> add (x,y,z) (a,b,c) = (a+x, b+y, c+z)
12:42:47 <z-MaTRiX> heres how it declares the vector add function
12:42:51 <norbert79> ever considered the problems where differences comes with different CPU types, or 64 bit?
12:43:22 <norbert79> Since it's very high level, you are depending on the whole framework... Risky
12:43:35 <norbert79> It's like moving the code into Java
12:43:42 <z-MaTRiX> yes if you want to distribute a binary either it should be general, or everybody install the 1GB bloat
12:44:01 <norbert79> z-MaTRiX: Doubt, that anyone here would be interested
12:44:45 <z-MaTRiX> didnt even think about that
12:44:54 <dihedral> haskel is interesting - what do you want to do with it?
12:44:56 <z-MaTRiX> this compiles binary executable
12:44:59 <norbert79> Haskell seems no different to me in this matter...
12:45:05 <dihedral> nearly all languages have their use ;-)
12:45:24 <dihedral> tcl can be pretty sweet
12:45:37 <norbert79> dihedral: Yes, A screwdriver is always useful, except for cooking :)
12:45:38 <planetmaker> the least use could be "bad example" or "fun past time activity to develop *** like whitespace" ;-)
12:45:59 <z-MaTRiX> tcl is better in efficiency
12:46:24 <z-MaTRiX> eats 100% cpu all the time
12:46:34 <dihedral> depends on the exact scenario - tcl does not have to be more efficient
12:47:03 <z-MaTRiX> now azureus eats very much CPU
12:47:25 <norbert79> Rather pretty nice examples, aren't they? :))
12:47:26 <z-MaTRiX> and every flash animation ad in a website
12:47:43 <z-MaTRiX> yep į have compared apples to bananas
12:49:49 <z-MaTRiX> i was thinking about a use for ghc, a program that is fairly complex and needs many calculations
12:50:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's because "ordinary programmers" don't understand it :p
12:50:59 <z-MaTRiX> also the domcumentation examples fail often
12:51:03 <norbert79> Besides, many of these links end either in 404 or 403
12:51:09 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Oh, right, sorry
12:51:32 <z-MaTRiX> those are awesome if you are a beginner and want examples
12:51:53 <norbert79> z-MaTRiX: Wait, so, I have almost no documentations, I might end up with a non-working code, or bogus code, and my binaeries would be the 10-20x of their current size... How wonderful!
12:51:59 <z-MaTRiX> they have been developing it for 20 years+
12:52:38 <z-MaTRiX> norbert79<< but look at the bright side, it can compile itself (:
12:52:52 <z-MaTRiX> you can learn the source
12:52:59 <norbert79> I am really hoping you have been just sarcastic, when mentioning Haskell
12:53:17 <z-MaTRiX> hmm not 100% because
12:53:32 <z-MaTRiX> have seen a 3d game in opengl with haskell
12:53:50 <z-MaTRiX> and the screenshot showed 60fps
12:54:58 <z-MaTRiX> but im sure its not attractive to programmers for many reasons
12:55:33 <peter1138> my current wm is xmonad
12:56:02 <peter1138> to customise it, you write and compile some haskell :P
12:58:02 <z-MaTRiX> hehe interesting, what about performance?
12:59:23 <z-MaTRiX> is 16GB enough for / ?
13:00:00 <Eddi|zuHause> if you exclude /var
13:00:53 <TinoDidriksen> I never saw the need for separate partitions...upgrades preserves /home trivially anyway.
13:02:36 <norbert79> TinoDidriksen: Well, in server enviroment, it's a must, and for own use, seperating /home is always preferred
13:03:02 <TinoDidriksen> I admin several servers, and no I really don't see the need.
13:03:24 <z-MaTRiX> peter1138<< not sure i want a tiling window manager ;/ i always have more windows than the screen size
13:03:44 <peter1138> that's why they're spread onto different desktops
13:04:15 <z-MaTRiX> TinoDidriksen<< its a clever thing to avoid fragmentation and filling the root with logs for example
13:04:45 <z-MaTRiX> peter1138<< what linux distro uses that haskell windowsystem?
13:05:09 <peter1138> i doubt any distro "uses" it
13:05:26 <peter1138> i guess by "use" you mean installs as a set of defaults...
13:05:42 <z-MaTRiX> so your linux is from scratch or gentoo?
13:06:32 <z-MaTRiX> btw i have a basic RHEL 6 system and my root partition seems rather small (8GB)
13:06:46 <norbert79> peter1138: Just out of curiosity: do you use LUKS (Linux Kernel based eCryptFS support)? (Just asking, since you said you have no fragmented system-drives)
13:07:13 <norbert79> Oh, sorry, wrong persom
13:07:23 <norbert79> TinoDidriksen: Just out of curiosity: do you use LUKS (Linux Kernel based eCryptFS support)? (Just asking, since you said you have no fragmented system-drives)
13:07:32 <peter1138> i only use LUKS on a USB flash thing :)
13:07:56 <norbert79> peter1138: For USB I prefer Truecrypt, for easier use
13:08:04 <peter1138> yeah, i might switch back to that
13:08:06 <TinoDidriksen> Nope, no encryption.
13:08:11 <peter1138> truecrypt kinda sucks though
13:08:21 <norbert79> peter1138: Never had any issues... Why?
13:08:21 <peter1138> but windows access is cool
13:08:26 <z-MaTRiX> and luks stores keys at the beginning of your harddisk
13:08:42 <z-MaTRiX> in case it damages, no way you decrypt your data
13:08:57 <norbert79> z-MaTRiX: Sometimes that's a good thing :)
13:09:07 <TinoDidriksen> That's what backups are for...
13:09:26 <peter1138> z-MaTRiX, even for my usb flash thing?
13:09:27 <z-MaTRiX> aes256-cbc-essiv without lucks seems better
13:10:20 <z-MaTRiX> peter1138<< yes the flash things used to go badsector land
13:10:35 <z-MaTRiX> depends on what you store on it
13:10:53 <peter1138> so the keys for the LUKS partition of my usb flash stick are on my hdd?
13:11:03 <peter1138> so how does it work on other computers?
13:11:08 <z-MaTRiX> no unless you make a backup
13:11:17 <z-MaTRiX> but the keys are encrypted with your password...
13:11:34 <peter1138> 14:08 < z-MaTRiX> and luks stores keys at the beginning of your harddisk
13:12:05 <Eddi|zuHause> he meant the beginning of the partition in question, i'm quite convinced.
13:12:07 <peter1138> maybe you meant encrypted volume rather than harddisk?
13:12:07 <z-MaTRiX> well įd think you encrypt your whole drive
13:12:08 <TinoDidriksen> At the beginning of the device it is protecting, then.
13:12:45 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: how do you always manage to mistype your "i"s so badly?
13:12:59 <z-MaTRiX> its an autoreplace <;
13:13:00 <peter1138> it's combining the i and the '
13:15:18 <z-MaTRiX> įţ waş oņly şomę şţylę
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13:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> z-MaTRiX: so what do you plan to do about this?
13:20:42 <z-MaTRiX> i think i can't make the 1GB ghc install below 100MB
13:25:29 <z-MaTRiX> you see you like linux
13:29:23 <norbert79> Belugas: How's your morning?
13:30:10 <Markk> Hellu again, may I ask a language question again? :D
13:30:23 <Markk> "Glückwünsche" or "Herzlichen Glückwunsch!"?
13:30:30 <Markk> I srsly don't trust Google Translate.
13:30:57 <norbert79> Markk: Sounds ok to me, depends on which ocassion you would like to use it
13:31:28 <Belugas> norbert79: fine, so far :) I still have my cold, i'm all bruised and tired because of the work i did on the basement and around the house, but since i've got no big rush/bug/catastroph onmy plate, i'm ok :)
13:31:37 <Markk> A german friend of mine has finally quit her job (it's a good thing in this case) and I would like to say "Congratulations!".
13:31:49 <Markk> Seems a bit to long, even for being german like.
13:32:14 <norbert79> Markk: "Glückwunsch" seems to be enough for me, but I guess some real German members would have better ideas :)
13:32:42 <Markk> norbert79: I thought that you're German. :o
13:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what's the easiest way to get temperate river-shores in arctic?
13:33:06 <norbert79> Markk: No, just using as an additional language, despite being related to many German things. :)
13:33:39 <norbert79> If having lived for 3 years in old DDR counts there, well, I could be called a bit German then :)
13:34:10 <Markk> I'm still trying to choose which language I should choose between Dutch and German.
13:34:32 <MNIM> if you ask me, neither >.>
13:34:32 <Markk> It seems like Dutch is a bit closer to Swedish than German, but I know more German than Dutch.
13:34:50 <Markk> planetmaker: That's even more f*cked up. D:
13:34:54 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: that is not really a language
13:35:03 <Markk> I could learn like Swiss german.
13:35:03 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Sorta :)
13:35:04 <MNIM> both are hard as duck to learn properly even
13:35:07 <Markk> And noone will understand me.
13:35:11 <planetmaker> norbert79: not even sorta ;-)
13:35:27 <norbert79> planetmaker: Alright, Austrian then
13:35:40 <Eddi|zuHause> norbert79: and _real_ 14th-century-ish prussian is actually not even german
13:36:00 <Markk> I can pronounce Utrecht correctly.
13:36:22 <planetmaker> well. 14th century language is nowhere near the current one. Probably not even for latin
13:38:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: yes, but old prussian is actually a baltic language (related to latvian and lithuanian)
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13:40:51 <norbert79> Still, it can be called almost as a seperate one, just like with Hungarian and Szekely, where Szekely's also speak Hungarian, but their dialect almost made it an own one.
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14:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... where and how does the calculation for model life happen? according to my data, the DBSetXL 0.82 has the following data for the BR 05:
14:05:11 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x00 "Date of introduction" 0x1566 (6209) (= 01.01.1937)
14:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x04 "model life in years" 0x15 (21) (= 01.01.1958)
14:05:14 <Eddi|zuHause> 0x26 "Retire vehicle early" 0x04 (4) (= 01.01.1954)
14:05:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but in my test runs, the BR 05 is never available after 01.01.1952, anyone can explain this discrepancy?
14:13:22 <Belugas> somebody found a technical glitch taht forced thm to retire the engine 4 years earlier!
14:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> a "test run" consists of setting a year by cheat, and typing "resetengines" in the console over and over again
14:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> (actually, once, and then [up][enter] over and over)
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14:29:13 <CakeMasher> So i've been trying to connect the the admin port (3977), authenticate and send a rcon command through an external script i've made..
14:29:46 <CakeMasher> The documentary says a TCP connection should me made, followed by sending the ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN package
14:30:08 <CakeMasher> The server should reply with the ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_PROTOCOL followed by ADMIN_PACKET_SERVER_WELCOME
14:30:37 <CakeMasher> however, when i send the JOIN package, and start listening to the connection for incomming data, it times out after 30 seconds for not recieving any thing.
14:30:40 <planetmaker> well, what I know is that the sample implementation of joan I works...
14:30:54 <planetmaker> you should probably try to get that along with the sample bot and try to sort it out
14:31:06 <planetmaker> joan being the java implementatin of stuff. Where's dihedral?
14:32:57 <planetmaker> the rethoric question was not inteded to be answered but to be a highlight for him ;-)
14:33:27 <planetmaker> he might show up in the evening hours
14:33:39 <planetmaker> he wrote the stuff
14:34:46 <planetmaker> and what I just said ;-)
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14:41:17 <CakeMasher> isnt joan the server side of the administration connections?
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14:41:45 <dihedral> i'll be right with you
14:41:45 <^Spike^> joan if i remember correctly is a java library that allows you to communicate using the admin port
14:42:01 <CakeMasher> The Java OpenTTD Admin Library (joan) is a library which takes over the communication part with an OpenTTD (dedicated) server.
14:42:18 <CakeMasher> so isnt that the server side?
14:42:28 <planetmaker> ... the server-side is OpenTTD
14:42:45 <planetmaker> joan is what you try to implement, CakeMasher
14:42:49 <CakeMasher> yeh, but it looks like an extention for the server side's admin port communication
14:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> err... this looks weird: src/engine.cpp:569:uint retire_early_max_age = max(0, e->duration_phase_1 + e->duration_phase_2 - retire_early * 12);
14:43:10 <planetmaker> or rather grapes + joan together are what you try to write
14:43:11 <dihedral> joan is the lib that basically does all that for you
14:43:22 <dihedral> grapes is a project which makes use of joan
14:43:46 <CakeMasher> what i want to accomplish is to connect to the openttd admin port, auth, and send rcon commands..
14:43:52 <z-MaTRiX> wow freenode has ipv6 now
14:43:53 <CakeMasher> and recieve the results from the commands
14:44:05 <dihedral> you can feel free to copy and paste from joan
14:44:13 <CakeMasher> yeh, i dont know where to start
14:44:15 <dihedral> let me find some references for you
14:45:00 <planetmaker> CakeMasher: as you write php... you could certainly also use a java lib...
14:45:04 <dihedral> this file defines how data is communicated
14:46:11 <dihedral> 3 strings are sent, password, bot name and version
14:46:34 <CakeMasher> chr ($length) . chr (0) . chr (0) . $adminpass . chr (0) . $botname . chr (0) . $botver . chr (0)
14:46:42 <CakeMasher> that is what i've been sending
14:48:00 <dihedral> first 2 bytes are length of the packet
14:48:17 <CakeMasher> $length contains the number of the data being send
14:48:48 <CakeMasher> $length = strlen ($adminpass) + strlen ($botname) + strlen ($botver) + 5;
14:49:57 <dihedral> that is from openttdlib which can already communicate with openttd (on the udp port) however, the packet class is the same more or less
14:50:01 <glx> <z-MaTRiX> wow freenode has ipv6 now <-- but only 1 of the 3 servers in rotation works for me
14:50:57 <z-MaTRiX> i have just switched to ssl too
14:51:17 <z-MaTRiX> and host is gone on v6
14:51:37 <z-MaTRiX> reverse lookup failed
14:52:20 <z-MaTRiX> reconnected 6x and its ok now
14:52:53 <glx> only 2001:6b0:... works for me
14:53:01 <norbert79> I wonder if my ISP will allow using IPV6, how I would be able still connecting to IPv4 servers for older games...
14:53:15 <norbert79> I am afraid not given additional IPv4
14:54:11 <CakeMasher> codecubes isnt available any more =[
14:55:34 <z-MaTRiX> calvino.freenode.net[2001:1418:13:1::25/6697] this worked for me now
14:56:17 <z-MaTRiX> i wonder how is v4 v6 determined, if v6 avail then prefer that?
14:58:40 <CakeMasher> dihedral: codebudes.org isnt available any more.. =[
15:07:27 <dihedral> codecubes is not of interest
15:07:37 <CakeMasher> i've been looking through it
15:07:41 <CakeMasher> downloaded the compleet lib..
15:07:46 <dihedral> what do you want from codecubes?
15:07:47 <CakeMasher> but dint get much more wiser..
15:07:57 <dihedral> there is nothing that would not be found at dev.openttdcoop.org ;-)
15:08:02 <CakeMasher> all things refere me to codecubes for examples and such
15:08:56 <CakeMasher> i've downloaded OpenTTDLib-0.3.2.zip
15:10:02 <dihedral> that's my secret way of advertising openttdcoop :-P
15:10:25 <CakeMasher> but this is an query system eh
15:10:36 <CakeMasher> to get some server information
15:10:37 <dihedral> basically you can use the Packet class to create the packets you want to send to the tcp port too
15:10:51 <CakeMasher> yeah, but i've got the right package.. i think
15:11:02 <dihedral> that could be the problem ^^
15:11:12 <CakeMasher> the server dosnt give any error
15:11:20 <CakeMasher> about illegal packages or somthing
15:11:44 <CakeMasher> when i use 'name' as adminname, and 'v1' as version
15:11:56 <CakeMasher> the console says the following:
15:12:03 <dihedral> password must be set on the server too, the admin_password
15:12:16 <CakeMasher> dgb: [net] [admin] Client connected from 127.0.0.1 on frame 57107
15:12:17 <dihedral> i think it was admin_password
15:12:37 <CakeMasher> dgb: [net] [admin] 'name' (v1) has connected
15:12:44 <dihedral> ah there you go then
15:12:56 <dihedral> you whould have received a protocol packet too if i am not mistaken
15:12:59 <CakeMasher> yeh, the documentary however says the server should respond to that
15:13:04 <CakeMasher> but i'm not recieving any thing
15:14:28 <dihedral> how is your socket setup
15:14:51 <dihedral> paste some code to a pastebin ;-)
15:19:35 <dihedral> include the Packet class and use that
15:19:42 <dihedral> it will write length etc. for you
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15:20:02 <CakeMasher> OpenTTDLibPacket.php?
15:21:27 <dihedral> all you do is $packet->Send_string("name");
15:22:01 <dihedral> $packet->PrepareToSend();
15:22:18 <dihedral> $r = @fwrite( $this->_fp, $packet->getData(), OpenTTDLibPacket::SEND_MTU );
15:22:26 <dihedral> this is all found in OpenTTDLib
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15:27:52 <CakeMasher> yeah, ill do that as second :P
15:27:55 <CakeMasher> first the send part
15:32:05 <CakeMasher> i dont understend it completely
15:32:13 <dihedral> i am still here for a bit
15:32:26 <dihedral> show me a paste and your issue :-P
15:32:30 <CakeMasher> how do i create the join packet? :S
15:32:42 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
15:32:48 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_String ($adminname);
15:32:53 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminver);
15:33:01 <CakeMasher> $packet->PrewpareToSend();
15:35:49 <dihedral> $packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(PACKET_TYPE);
15:36:07 <dihedral> PACKET_TYPE is a constant defined in OpenTTDLibPacket
15:36:17 <dihedral> they do not exist for the admin network yet
15:36:28 <dihedral> you can just copy the definition from openttd
15:36:44 <dihedral> and define the constants as integer values
15:37:34 <CakeMasher> hmm, could you maby make an exmaple for how to send the ADMIN_PACKET_JOIN command??
15:38:34 <dihedral> in OpenTTDLibPacket you create a const ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN = 0;
15:38:57 <dihedral> then $packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
15:39:04 <dihedral> $packet->Send_string(......
15:39:22 <dihedral> then the 'prepare to send' thing, and then write the data to the socket
15:43:44 <CakeMasher> so ill just add in the openttdlibpacket the follwing:
15:43:44 <CakeMasher> const ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN = 0;
15:47:01 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: can statistics explain the behaviour?
15:47:15 <planetmaker> The high end of the life span is increasingly less likely to see
15:52:42 <planetmaker> CakeMasher: you expand on the existion openttdlib?
15:53:07 <CakeMasher> i'm trying to figure out how this works :P
15:53:26 <dihedral> as it does not know ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN
15:53:36 <CakeMasher> i've got the first 2 lines.. now xD
15:53:44 <CakeMasher> $packet = new OpenTTDLibPacket;
15:53:57 <CakeMasher> $packet->NetworkSend_Init (OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
15:54:10 <CakeMasher> yeah, nice list :D
15:54:33 <CakeMasher> but what do i put in the $packet->send_string command?
15:57:19 <dihedral> you use 3 times $packet->Send_string() because you send 3 strings ;-)
15:57:26 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
15:57:26 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminname);
15:57:26 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminver);
15:57:40 <CakeMasher> $packet = new OpenTTDLibPacket;
15:57:40 <CakeMasher> $packet->NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
15:57:40 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminpass);
15:57:40 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminname);
15:57:41 <CakeMasher> $packet->Send_string ($adminver);
15:57:43 <CakeMasher> $packet->PrepareToSend ();
15:57:43 <CakeMasher> fwrite ($sock, $packet->getData());
15:58:07 <CakeMasher> i wont get any errors from the PHP side, but the openttd server wont allow me to login
15:58:23 <CakeMasher> dbg: [net] [admin] '' () has disconnected.
15:58:52 <planetmaker> has the server set the correct admin password?
15:59:04 <CakeMasher> dbg: [net] [tcp/admin] received illegal packet from '' ()
15:59:08 <planetmaker> which you use in authentication?
15:59:26 <CakeMasher> see the code above..
15:59:40 <CakeMasher> but the package isnt good
15:59:49 <__ln__> i thought this is #openttd, but apparently it's a pastebin
16:00:48 <dihedral> $packet = OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init(OpenTTDLibPacket::ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_JOIN);
16:01:33 <CakeMasher> Strict Standards: Non-static method OpenTTDLibPacket::NetworkSend_Init() should not be called statically in
16:02:17 <dihedral> well i used to in 5.2 :-P
16:02:26 <dihedral> then define it as static ^^
16:03:25 <CakeMasher> still the same error from opentd
16:03:53 <CakeMasher> the admin '' () made an error and has been disconnected. reason: 'fout spelwachtwoord' (fout spelwachtwoord = wrong admin pass)
16:03:59 <CakeMasher> but the adminpass is correct..
16:04:42 <planetmaker> CakeMasher: you didn't edit the cfg _after_ you started OpenTTD?
16:05:03 <planetmaker> and rcon gives you the same admin_password?
16:05:22 <planetmaker> rcon set admin_password
16:05:35 <dihedral> admin_password must be set before openttd starts
16:05:40 <dihedral> as else the network port is not opened
16:05:46 <planetmaker> can't I set it via rcon?
16:05:50 <dihedral> and if it's not opened he would not get the message he gets
16:05:50 <CakeMasher> the admin password is set..
16:06:18 <CakeMasher> $packet->getData();
16:06:20 <CakeMasher> containts: admin0name0v10
16:06:55 <dihedral> quite important else openttd reads on ;-)
16:07:05 <CakeMasher> ill change the version..
16:07:06 <CakeMasher> admin0name0phpversion0
16:07:28 <dihedral> the version is not interesting
16:07:31 <dihedral> they are only strings
16:07:35 <dihedral> the password is important
16:07:42 <CakeMasher> yeah, the password is correct..
16:07:46 <CakeMasher> i'm 100% sure of that
16:08:04 <dihedral> and openttd is reading the correct config?
16:08:38 <planetmaker> well. via rcon one can query the pw :-)
16:08:56 <CakeMasher> when i use my old code, it does works..
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16:09:01 <CakeMasher> $length = strlen ($adminpass) + strlen ($adminname) + strlen ($adminver) + 5;
16:09:05 <CakeMasher> $data = chr ($length) . chr (0) . chr (0) . $adminpass . chr (0) . $adminname . chr (0) . $adminver . chr (0);
16:09:33 <_1009> That looks like some crazy code :þ
16:11:49 <_1009> I got three things I can still work on with OpenTTD: Drag&drop terraforming in Scenario Editor; Giving Money to companies instead of players; Adding a "Start game with this Scenario"-button in the Editor. Should I work on of those or do something else?
16:12:25 <dihedral> add a fine type of cost that simply lets money vanish from a company ^^
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16:13:01 <_1009> I'd like it if something I'd do would be included in OpenTTD and not die on Flyspray (okay, I'm not sure what exactly will happen with my written patch "Stop AI Cheat" :P
16:13:33 <_1009> So that's why I thought I'd better get dev feedback first
16:14:20 <Yexo> activety has been pretty low lately, but that patch will get picked up soner or later
16:14:52 <Yexo> "Start game with this scenario" might not be easy to create, but the other two seem good ideas
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16:15:34 <CakeMasher> dihedral: when i compare the package made by me and made by ur class, there is a differends..:
16:15:42 <CakeMasher> your package: admin0name0phpversion0
16:15:49 <CakeMasher> my package: adminnamephpversion
16:16:31 <planetmaker> without separator things are missing
16:16:33 <_1009> Yexo is there any preference as to which to develop, or will both be wanted?
16:16:47 <CakeMasher> in your package, they are 0's i think
16:17:08 <Yexo> giving money to companies instead of players is the easiest one I think
16:17:23 <planetmaker> I'd like a "play this scenario" and "load scenario via ctrl/cmd+l in the SE"
16:17:42 <planetmaker> what yexo just mentioned is much more important, though
16:17:44 <Yexo> drag&drop terraforming in the scenario editor is harder, since some people want to keep the current behavior where you can terraform an x by x block at once without drag&drop
16:18:14 <Yexo> I'd like such a button too, but I'm not too sure how it'd work
16:18:20 <CakeMasher> dihedral: when i add: $data = str_replace ("0", chr (0), $packet->getData ());
16:18:29 <CakeMasher> but, i dont know if that should be a good thing to do
16:18:31 <Yexo> save scenario to memory, load from there as normal game?
16:18:48 <Yexo> or save to a temporary file even perhaps
16:19:12 <_1009> Hm alright, I'm probably going to do the "start game with this scenario" button first, cheers :)
16:19:28 <Yexo> and there won't be an easy way to go back to the scenario, which might lead to lost changes for users expecting to do a quick test and get back to editing easily
16:20:03 <planetmaker> hm... why would one need to start a game to "test" a scenario?
16:20:14 <_1009> I'm probably going to save it as a temporary file (or do a save dialogue first)
16:20:38 <planetmaker> what might be similarily useful is the option to just switch to SE from ingame
16:20:40 <_1009> I don't know, it was suggested, I could imagine someone would want to play on a scenario they just made right away
16:21:01 <_1009> imo that sounds a lot harder, lol :P
16:26:51 <_1009> Alright before I start it's pizza time, catch you guys in an hour or so
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17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22963 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs):
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: basque - 60 changes by HerrBasque, Thadah
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: belarusian - 42 changes by Wowanxm
17:45:28 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: latvian - 48 changes by Parastais
17:45:30 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: thai - 19 changes by originalBlueSin
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19:32:16 <dandan1> i'm having trouble installing NML under Mac OS. Anybody here who could help me with this?
19:33:50 * Rubidium proposes planetmaker ;)
19:34:27 <dandan1> good idea, he is already used to me bothering him ;-)
19:37:10 <supermop> speaking of which, can nml do stations yet?
19:39:48 <dandan1> bridges are generally a pain to code. I don't know if there are perhaps plans for a new implementation on the nfo side
19:40:40 <Terkhen> I have not heard of that
19:44:04 <z-MaTRiX> i know you all like linux <;
19:49:33 <frosch123> there are too many cats in that video
19:51:08 <Elukka> it's possible to have too many cats?
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20:00:47 <Belugas> we have one, at home. a big one. main Coon. My wife is allergic. so 2 will be too much cats :)
20:01:11 <Pinkbeast> She must be pretty tolerant if one is not too many
20:04:24 <Elukka> i'm also allergic so even one in my house would be too many
20:04:41 <Elukka> a video however can contain all the cats around :p
20:05:40 <Elukka> he's nice and won't cause any allergic reactions
20:12:49 <Belugas> she is in total love with our cat indeed. and manages to make sure there's just enough of furr hanging in mid air.
20:12:59 <Belugas> including vacuum twice a day...
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20:31:02 <z-MaTRiX> another downside of a cat is you get brain disease from it or parasites
20:31:31 <z-MaTRiX> same for the dog if you let it "kiss" you
20:31:34 <Belugas> only if you let your cat out
20:31:57 <Terkhen> I must be completely crazy by now
20:32:10 <Belugas> if your cat is a precious thing, which NEVER leaves a pawn outside the 4 walls of your house, you're safe
20:33:03 <Belugas> come at my place and you'll see by yourself ;)
20:33:41 <V453000> my cat leaves outside very often and it is healthy as can be
20:33:43 <z-MaTRiX> it will be a few thousand kms
20:34:38 <Belugas> never said that it will AUTOMATICALLY catch something ;)
20:34:55 <Belugas> just that staying home, there's very little it can catch
20:35:06 <Belugas> apart... flies, mice, belly...
20:37:16 <z-MaTRiX> i believe if you sterilize it it will be safe, just cook in a pressure cooker >=117C fro 30 minutes
20:38:08 <z-MaTRiX> not sure it kills prions too, that may need up to 2 hours
20:38:44 <frosch123> can you speed that up by using a mircowave?
20:41:15 <z-MaTRiX> maybe, but only if you can evenly distribute in the 3d space otherwise there may be cold spots where bacteria will survive
20:42:30 <z-MaTRiX> btw a microwave oven can create new molecules at random hotspots where the microwaves interfere
20:43:00 <z-MaTRiX> random new molecules are surely good for health
20:48:22 <Terkhen> yes, it could spawn a new virus :)
20:52:18 <z-MaTRiX> resident evil is on the way
20:52:50 <z-MaTRiX> mutating existing viruses in the microwave oven
20:59:40 <George> Is it possible to check, is there is desert tles on the map during cargo definition? I mean want to replace water cargo with something else in case there are no desert tiles on the map. Is it possible somehow?
21:01:56 <Yexo> no (other than by checking the climate)
21:02:58 <Elukka> do desertless tropical maps even happen?
21:03:07 <Elukka> mine are about half desert even if there's water everywhere
21:03:19 <Yexo> manual created scenarios?
21:03:21 <planetmaker> you can design such maps
21:03:36 <Yexo> though for such cases a grf parameter would suffice imo
21:04:05 <Yexo> George: the big problem with such detection is that it'd have to be static over the course of a game
21:04:41 <Yexo> if it was to be added than openttd couldn't allow any new desert tiles be created, because that means your grf would behave differently if the game was saved/loaded (=instance desync in multiplayer)
21:05:06 <George> Yexo: Isn't it work like that already?
21:05:09 <Yexo> or (a more likely scenario), the other way around: the removal of the last desert tiles
21:05:24 <George> There is no way for desert tile to appear?
21:05:25 <Yexo> George: no, because your grf can't check for "any desert tiles"
21:05:48 <Yexo> ok, the example was not that good, the other way around (removing all desert) still holds though
21:06:03 <Yexo> it was more of an explanation why such a variable won't be implemented
21:06:54 <George> So, there is in fact no way for desert tile to appear
21:07:46 <George> If I place water over desert tile, and then remove it, it would be a desert tile?
21:08:23 <Yexo> but I'm quite sure you can remove the "is a desert tile" status somehow
21:08:35 <Yexo> if not by building water, perhaps by building an object
21:08:50 <George> So, every tile has a desert bit, that can't change during gameplay?
21:09:09 <George> if i remove the object, it would be desert tile?
21:09:11 <Yexo> I think it currently can be changed somehow, not sure about that though
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21:10:03 <Yexo> but it can be changed in the scenario editor without problems, and in that case your grf is already loaded, so it can already cause problems there
21:10:50 <George> you mean I can save a game, open it in editor, add desert and continue playing>
21:52:42 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: someone was last seen in #openttd 49 weeks, 2 days, 4 hours, 12 minutes, and 19 seconds ago: <Someone> indeed
21:54:15 <dandan1> oh that was the famous someone
21:55:14 <z-MaTRiX> who's bored? grep -i "<a[^<>]*href=" "./index.html" | sed -r 's;.*href=["'"'"']*([^"'"'"']*).*;\1;Ig;
21:55:27 <supermop> do trees grow randomly or only near other trees?
21:56:02 <planetmaker> or rather randomly with bias
21:56:15 <Eddi|zuHause> actually it's pretty much both
21:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause> a tree tile can decide to plant a tree on a neighboring tile
21:57:13 <Eddi|zuHause> or the map can decide to plant a random tree anywhere every
21:57:24 <Eddi|zuHause> 256 ticks (i believe)
21:57:28 <Eddi|zuHause> or every tick in tropic
21:57:36 <supermop> can trees die if overcrowded?
21:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> trees can die. but has nothing to do with overcrowdedness
21:58:04 <supermop> and, is a pine tree more likely to build another pine near it?
21:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> if you disable tree growth, trees slowly die out
21:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there's some fractal tree algorithm, but yes, it tries to keep the same type of tree
21:59:30 <supermop> so could one add a tree that looks like tall prairie grass, and have a prairie grow organically?
22:00:03 <Elukka> putting my sprites and DBset sprites side by side, the style is staggeringly different
22:00:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: that is no problem, as they are (ultimately) not meant to be played alongside
22:00:50 <Elukka> yeah, just an observatio
22:03:40 <Elukka> CETS vehicles look smaller too
22:03:43 <Elukka> going by the templates
22:04:43 <supermop> ok off to a mogwai show, might be able to release a grf when i get back,
22:12:25 <Elukka> hmm. CETS colors look more realistic, but DBset is easier to see
22:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> your wagons look a pixel too low
22:18:52 <Eddi|zuHause> and fine tuning of colours, brightness, alignment etc. can be done after i get these things into the grf
22:18:59 <Elukka> i was wondering about that
22:19:03 <Elukka> i'm just going by the templates
22:20:14 <Elukka> oberhümer's locomotive is a pixel lower than the dbset locomotive too
22:22:25 <Elukka> so i think my sprites are consistent with his in scale
22:24:53 <Elukka> i think it wouldn't necessarily hurt to notch everything up a bit in brightness
22:41:21 <supermop> apparently the concert has been canceled
23:08:20 <michi_cc> Elukka: Not sure if it is just an illusion due to the fence, but the CETS roofs seems more "flat" than the DB one.
23:09:44 <Elukka> that's because the roofs of the actual coaches are fairly flat
23:09:53 <michi_cc> Elukka: And it might be more of an issue with contrasts and not brightness. (Which the OpenGFX tracks are a good anti-example of. Your comparison probably looks better on original terrain).
23:17:28 <michi_cc> Railroad models quite often don't show what they are supposed to show BTW (stuff like roof type, brake cabins, doors and so on for older archetypes often don't match what the description promises). And never use the length of H0 passengers waggon models to get real-life sizes, most models of UIC and similar wagons are shortened.
23:20:36 <Elukka> i know they're often shortened
23:21:20 <Elukka> brawa's prussian coaches which is what i've been drawing match up with actual drawings
23:21:32 <Elukka> (except that they seem to be longer than what most sources state, for some reason)
23:23:09 <Elukka> mostly models are the only source to be found for old stuff though
23:23:42 <Elukka> well. i suppose speaking german would help a bit
23:24:45 <michi_cc> Yeah, it's the modern, longer passenger wagons that are shortened most often. The shorter wagons are more often correct.
23:25:50 <Elukka> roco and probably brawa make real length coaches
23:26:11 <Elukka> i prefer shortened ones on my model railway for practical reasons, though :P
23:26:45 <michi_cc> Guess why the companies do/did it :)
23:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why they produce shortened wagons, many "hobby" rail networks have too sharp turns to handle wagons >25cm properly
23:28:20 <Eddi|zuHause> and those extra 5cm of length may make the difference of having 3 or 4 wagons on the train fit into the station
23:28:27 <Elukka> they might run, but they need a lot of space around the tracks and look stupid on curves
23:32:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "Was können Kühe ohne zu sterben?"
23:32:59 <Eddi|zuHause> "Ins Gras beißen"
23:45:02 <Elukka> i have plenty of 360 mm radius curves :(
23:56:03 <supermop> what is the current version of grfcodec?
23:56:44 <supermop> does it automatically renum or not?
23:57:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it includes nforenum, but does not execute it automatically
23:57:39 <supermop> i think its been over a year since i've encoded with it...
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