IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-09-16
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05:26:46 <Elukka> Eddi|zuHause: i put together a train, not terribly important but think of it as a quick promo picture :D
05:26:48 <Elukka>
05:30:03 <pjpe> now make an animation of it turning!
05:30:11 <Elukka> ha
05:30:45 <Elukka> might get the full sprites of the coaches done tomorrow or the next day
05:30:52 <Elukka> loco is already done, not mine though
05:30:54 <pjpe> you better
05:39:24 <Diablo-D3> hrm
05:39:30 <Diablo-D3> I wonder how map gen is supposed to work
05:39:41 <Elukka> you could do some pixels too if you want it done faster, pjpe :P
05:39:53 <Diablo-D3> varierty distribution: none
05:39:54 <pjpe> ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
05:39:57 <Diablo-D3> produces amazing fucking maps
05:40:20 <Diablo-D3> but very low through very high produce nearly identical results
05:40:38 <Diablo-D3> and the results are basically a few mounts and lots of flat area
05:40:43 <pjpe> can you take a screenshot of the small map of two with the same seed?
05:41:13 <pjpe> damn i wish 2cc guy would come back
05:41:14 <Diablo-D3> pjpe: well
05:41:17 <Diablo-D3> I think its the map size
05:41:27 <Diablo-D3> 2048x2048 seems to confuse it
05:41:35 <Diablo-D3> smaller sizes produce what I think was intended
05:42:05 <pjpe> could be that
05:42:14 <Elukka> hey sprites are kinda fun to make
05:42:23 <Diablo-D3> I have arctic, 2048 2048, terragenesis,, snow line 7, mountainous, very rough, low, improved, none
05:42:48 <Elukka> and this one is my... third sprite or something
05:44:46 <Diablo-D3> hrm
05:44:48 <Diablo-D3> wonder if it was the seed
05:44:54 <Diablo-D3> I changed the seed and very low is a tad better
05:45:16 <Diablo-D3> oh wait I lied
05:46:48 <Diablo-D3> btw, does openttd have a height limit?
05:46:55 <pjpe> yes
05:47:04 <pjpe> which is why there's a patch to make more height levels
05:47:05 <Diablo-D3> how high?
05:47:12 <pjpe> oh about
05:47:13 <pjpe> more than 4
05:47:15 <pjpe> less than 100
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05:47:39 <Diablo-D3> I dunno, I just think it'd be fun to scale gigantic mountains
05:47:54 <pjpe> you can
05:47:57 <pjpe> there's a patch for that
05:48:09 <Diablo-D3> yeah, but why hasnt the patch been comitted? ;)
05:48:25 <pjpe> same reason other things aren't committed
05:48:27 <pjpe> maybe there are bugs
05:48:32 <pjpe> maybe the guy hasn't bothered trying to get it applied
05:48:37 <pjpe> maybe there's some gameplay issues somewhere
05:48:41 <pjpe> do some research kid
05:49:00 <Diablo-D3> what revision control does ottd use?
05:49:04 <pjpe> svn
05:49:09 <Diablo-D3> goddamnit =/
05:49:12 <Diablo-D3> people need to use git!
05:49:16 <pjpe> why
05:49:19 <pjpe> well
05:49:21 <pjpe> aside from the obvious
05:49:28 <pjpe> what is the big downside in openttd for using svn right now
05:49:56 <Diablo-D3> git makes it 50 times easier for people to write code and 50 times easier for upstream to merge it
05:50:27 <pjpe> not sure that's the reason why height controls isn't in trunk
05:50:31 <pjpe> you can use git for the code
05:50:39 <pjpe> there are git mirrors it's just hosted mainly using svn
05:51:07 <Diablo-D3> yeah but theres nothing quite like throwing it up on github and making everything easy
05:51:20 <pjpe> how would that help get more patches in though
05:51:37 <Diablo-D3> because people can easily produce new branches
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05:52:01 <Diablo-D3> seriously, for almost every large product that switched to git, the number of patches submitted and merged has gone radically up
05:52:06 <Diablo-D3> which is a good thing
05:52:07 <planetmaker> the source control software hardly has an impact there
05:52:10 <planetmaker> moin also
05:52:17 <pjpe> you should mix that up
05:52:25 <pjpe> say some other greetings every once in a while
05:52:33 <pjpe> through in a hallelujah every once in a while
05:52:39 <planetmaker> source code of openttd is available via svn, hg and git
05:52:41 <planetmaker> moin also
05:52:51 <planetmaker> :-D
05:52:59 <planetmaker> like halleluja?! :-)
05:53:06 <pjpe> can i get an amen
05:53:08 <pjpe> AMEN!!
05:54:17 <Diablo-D3> lol 327mb png
05:57:30 <Diablo-D3> lol 413mb png
05:57:47 <pjpe> how impractical would it be to switch to git though
05:57:58 <Diablo-D3> pjpe: it wouldnt
05:58:03 <Diablo-D3> many projects have switched
05:58:04 <pjpe> not you!!
05:58:14 * Diablo-D3 shrugs
05:58:24 <Diablo-D3> its not like anyone else in here has much experience on the subject
05:58:42 <pjpe> well planemaker answers like every question in here
05:58:45 <pjpe> and does a lot of developing
05:58:56 <pjpe> he seems to know why everything does or doesn't happen
06:02:43 <planetmaker> svn has the advanatage to have unique and easy-to-read version numbers
06:03:09 <planetmaker> Many patches and additions are developed from hg or git repos
06:03:16 <Diablo-D3> you can do that with git too, planetmaker
06:03:46 <planetmaker> dvcs don't have svn's nice and easy sequential versions
06:04:04 <planetmaker> + and unique
06:04:08 <Diablo-D3> no, git can output the tag as part of the revision number
06:04:14 <Diablo-D3> and dvcs ARE unique names
06:04:26 <Diablo-D3> since git uses the sha256 signature of the commit
06:04:48 <Diablo-D3> also, uh, maybe loading a 400mb png in gimp isnt a good idea
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06:13:38 <Terkhen> good morning
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06:19:07 <planetmaker> hi Terkhen
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07:04:04 <appe> good morning.
07:04:17 <Markk> Oi appe
07:04:22 <Markk> How's it going?
07:04:30 <appe> i kind of gave up on this make-my-own-grf idea.
07:04:44 <appe> it's ok. im really, really tired.
07:04:52 <Markk> Aw
07:05:09 <Markk> I woke up at 4.20 AM and was at work at 7 AM.
07:05:14 <appe> jesus
07:05:26 <appe> swedish time? or are you at home? :)
07:05:38 <Markk> Swedish time.
07:05:52 <appe> < Markk> Swedish meal time.
07:05:53 <appe> harr.
07:05:53 <appe> :D
07:05:55 <Markk> :D
07:06:03 <Markk> PRE DINNER MAYO
07:06:07 <Markk> It's good for you!
07:06:08 <appe> hehe
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07:15:12 <norbert79> Morning everyone. Just for your interest: Lovely pictures about New York, from 1941, IN COLOUR
07:15:13 <norbert79>
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07:17:40 <pjpe> must be kodachrome film
07:17:50 <pjpe> always makes it look so colourful and happy
07:18:17 <norbert79> Exactly. Such ones are really rare, even for more western countries
07:18:26 <norbert79> Those used to be very expensive
07:18:46 <Markk> "The page you have requested does not exist or is no longer available."
07:18:58 <norbert79> I also enjoy such pictures and recordings, when the recording isa in colour yet colour film wasn't wiedely available :)
07:19:13 <norbert79> Markk: Must be an error on your side, pjpe can see them
07:19:51 <Markk> Ah, now I see.
07:20:19 <norbert79> You can almost feel the mood on those pictures.
07:24:11 <planetmaker> great photos
07:25:35 <V453000> makes me want to go back in time really
07:25:44 <V453000> true, there was no openttd at that time, but ..
07:26:07 <pjpe> you'd have more pressing concerns
07:26:17 <pjpe> mainly getting shot at
07:26:20 <pjpe> by soldiers
07:26:20 <norbert79> I wish sometimes also being able going back there just for a week or two, despite all the complications, like clothing, money, and such
07:26:59 <norbert79> pjpe: Those are from 1941, there was no regulations back in place, which forced everyone joining
07:27:09 <norbert79> US just got hit at Pearl Harbour
07:27:16 <pjpe> well i'm guessing he would be in germany
07:27:19 <pjpe> i mean
07:27:19 <pjpe> europe
07:27:34 <pjpe> unless we're all going back to 1940's new york
07:27:40 <pjpe> i'd rather go to 1940's toronto
07:27:41 <norbert79> 1941. Germany just attacked the UK, France taken, Jugoslavia, Barbarossa, Greece
07:27:46 <pjpe> do pretty much what i do now
07:28:17 <norbert79> And let's not forget about El Alamein
07:28:22 <norbert79> Toronto would be also nice
07:29:22 <norbert79> Damn you war, why do you spoil our time-travelling plans? :)
07:30:35 <pjpe> well as a canadian pretty much every time after 1945 would be good
07:30:37 <norbert79> What about the 1930's era? Booze just got banned... You can see Al Capone in person...
07:31:25 <norbert79> pjpe: Well, I would pick 1945.12.31 as date, since war is just over...
07:31:38 <norbert79> or Christmas of 1945
07:31:53 <pjpe> i could go to the 80's and meet my parents!
07:32:12 <pjpe> i mean before they had kids
07:32:14 <pjpe> when they were cool
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07:32:31 <norbert79> lol? "i mean before they had kids" - This means you :)
07:32:38 <pjpe> yeppp
07:32:46 <planetmaker> sure you'd find it 'cool'?
07:32:48 <pjpe> kids kinda cramp your cool
07:33:06 <norbert79> pjpe: I am also a father of 2, and I still get around OK I guess. Nah, they don't. Being a proud father of an 11 year old and a 3 month old
07:33:31 <pjpe> that's what you think
07:33:41 <pjpe> when's the last time you walked in to a club and everyone stopped and turned
07:33:45 <planetmaker> 'cool' in a kid's eyes is entirely different from 'cool' in a parent's eyes. Even when they're 20 years younger
07:34:21 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, luckily my son thinks different. He enjoys the time we play together on the console, and we share lot of common things.
07:34:52 <norbert79> planetmaker: Not many kids can call their parents geeks, and so we are both :D
07:34:59 <norbert79> pjpe: "stopped and turned" ? What do you mean by that?
07:35:25 <pjpe>
07:35:51 <norbert79> pjpe: Explanation would be easier for me, youtube is kinda edgy at the place where I sit atm.
07:36:03 <planetmaker> that doesn't contradict my statement really, norbert79 ;-)
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07:36:47 <pjpe> because you're so cool that everyone's heads turn
07:36:49 <norbert79> planetmaker: Aw, come on, I even understand those Anime my son is watching. :)
07:37:13 <norbert79> pjpe: Why does this count? I mean I never really wanted to be cool, I always just wanted to be myself.
07:37:15 <planetmaker> understand != think it's cool
07:37:48 <norbert79> pjpe: Never really cared for what others think, and if I looked for directions, I have always asked.
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07:38:22 <norbert79> pjpe: I am not critisizing, I just try to really understand, why is this so important being so cool, that everyone turns back?
07:38:36 <pjpe> nothing i wasn't being very serious
07:38:48 <norbert79> pjpe: I see
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07:39:39 <planetmaker> norbert79: one doesn't need an airconditioning when one is soooo cool :-P
07:40:01 <norbert79> planetmaker: Lol...
07:40:19 <norbert79> planetmaker: Good for one during summertime.
07:40:33 <planetmaker> depends on the level of coolness :-P
07:40:58 <norbert79> planetmaker: well worst case one will apply for a job as CPU cooler
07:41:16 <pjpe>
07:41:16 <pjpe> NERD
07:41:26 <planetmaker> that's an understatement ;-) Coolhouse maintainer :-P
07:42:32 <norbert79> pjpe: Nerd, indeed, but such nerds are employed by highly advanced scientific teams/companies. :)
07:42:55 <norbert79> pjpe: Besides, without Math OpenTTD couldn't also exist :P
07:43:24 <pjpe> when i was that age i was doing more important and cooler things
07:43:24 <pjpe> like
07:43:26 <pjpe> watching star trek
07:43:36 <norbert79> pjpe: So did I.. Go on...
07:43:47 <pjpe> and now i'm in comp sci and probably a nerd
07:43:51 <pjpe> who would have guessed
07:44:31 <norbert79> pjpe: Be proud of it, because you can call yourself lucky being employed at the one thing you are good at.
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07:45:46 <norbert79> pjpe: Besides, knowing Star Trek by heart isn't a bad thing either. Thanks to Star Trek Motorola was the first phone-maker, who designed the first shell-like phones, the same like seen in TOS
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07:49:19 <Markk> Here are some more colour pictures:
07:51:04 <Markk> They varies from the 1920's to 1960's for the pictures to the left and then the same place today.
07:51:18 <norbert79> Markk: Nice one, thank you
07:52:06 <norbert79> Markk: When did Sweden switch between left and right side driving?
07:52:17 <Markk> It's Stockholm in Sweden, and the text is in Swedish as well, but if you want to understand anything of it you can use this link instead:
07:52:25 <Markk> norbert79: 1967.
07:52:31 <norbert79> Markk: I see, thank you
07:52:32 <Markk> norbert79: 3 of September I think.
07:52:54 <Markk> uh, t
07:52:58 <Markk> That's in english. :D
07:53:02 <Markk> The first one was in German.
07:53:09 <norbert79> I am fine with both :)
07:53:13 <norbert79> Thank you
07:53:17 <Markk> No problem. :)
07:53:19 <Markk> have fun!
07:53:25 <norbert79> Sure, cheers
07:53:45 <Markk> It's quite interesting to see how much (or little) that have changed over the past decade.
07:54:14 <norbert79> Markk: While I watch these pictures, I think I rather have the perfect song to them: FC Kahuna - Hayling
07:54:30 <norbert79> Markk: You will find it on Youtube for sure... :)
07:55:15 <Markk> :)
07:55:20 <Markk> I'm listening to it right now.
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07:55:26 <Markk> And yeah, i can see what you're meaning.
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08:01:39 <norbert79> Oh my god Eddi got cloned... :)
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08:03:30 <Markk> norbert79:
08:03:43 <Markk> norbert79: That's another song that fits moments like this perfect.
08:05:07 <norbert79> Markk: Hmm, a bit too 'fast', it's not for 'still life', but it would rather sound good on the street, while cars are passing by
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08:05:51 <Markk> Yes, I found this song through a cool video.
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08:05:58 <Markk> But I can't seem to find the video atm. :/
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08:32:52 <Diablo-D3> argh
08:44:24 <planetmaker> hm... I should be able to jump an action 1 and 2, shouldn't I?
08:44:27 <planetmaker> and 3
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09:12:37 <Yexo> planetmaker: no, only 3
09:13:01 <Yexo> although openttd will allow you to skip an action 2, ttdpatch will crash according to the wiki if you try that
09:14:24 <planetmaker> hm... ok... let's see
09:14:45 <planetmaker> my ogfxe_extra doesn't behave as it should either. Or I have a wrong action7
09:16:14 <planetmaker> in any case I need to skip action0 :-)
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09:34:15 <Chris_Booth> I keep getting 504's from
09:34:48 <planetmaker> yes, you're not alone with that
09:35:08 <planetmaker> unfortunately, I have to say
09:35:44 <Chris_Booth> lol, you poor people. your get just die? or something more major?
09:37:35 <Chris_Booth> that makes less than no sense lol, let me try again
09:37:45 <Chris_Booth> lol, you poor people. your server just die? or something more major?
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09:38:08 <planetmaker> actually neither. But something not configured somewhere as it should
09:38:25 <planetmaker> and currently people who can fix it are sleeping ;-)
09:39:01 <Chris_Booth> aah, so they are either lazy or from the otherside of the world
09:40:55 <planetmaker> neither I'd say
09:43:58 <Chris_Booth> :O
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09:46:58 <planetmaker> <-- is there anywhere where I go wrong, Yexo ? It still seems to use the 5-sprite way for OpenTTD 1.1.0? Interesting stuff in lines 295+
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09:55:12 <Eddi|zuHause> <Elukka> <-- now that looks very nice indeed
09:56:21 <Diablo-D3> heh
09:56:24 <Diablo-D3> a 28 tile long station
09:56:46 <norbert79> planetmaker: Direct IP call for the webpage ends up in Not found. Looks like the hosting side has some issues.
09:57:30 <MNIM> only 28?
09:57:45 <MNIM> my XL station is usually 29 (with buffer, lol)
09:57:47 <Noldo> what is Direct IP call?
09:57:57 <planetmaker> no DNS
09:58:06 <norbert79> Noldo: Instead of writing: but
09:58:23 <MNIM> though I haven't built one in a while as Ive been playing mountainous games lately
09:58:38 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: well i turned it up to 4x the default
09:58:52 <Noldo> if there are virtual hosts that is completely different address
09:59:01 <planetmaker> but that might due to the proxy not having a webserver ;-)
09:59:30 <planetmaker> and there's such different VM, yes
09:59:36 <^Spike^> i guess more the proxy not having a index.html pm ;)
10:00:22 <planetmaker> I don't know what it has or has not in detail. But I'm sure it has as little as feasible ;-)
10:00:31 <norbert79> planetmaker: Either way, noone can access the site, even if sub-domain or sub-ip or whatever. :)
10:00:44 <planetmaker> oh, bug tracker works ;-)
10:01:01 <planetmaker> as does wiki
10:01:07 <norbert79> planetmaker: Well, you can at least open up a bug on not being able accessing the site :D
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10:01:24 <^Spike^> bug trackers work great for that ;)
10:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> <norbert79> Morning everyone. Just for your interest: Lovely pictures about New York, from 1941, IN COLOUR <-- compare with "the other side" in colour:
10:01:36 <^Spike^> or other systems... as we have @ ottdc ;)
10:02:20 <Diablo-D3> >alpine map
10:02:29 <Diablo-D3> >monkey sound from tropics
10:02:30 <Diablo-D3> wtf
10:03:03 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: I am very familiar with that timeframe of Germany, and I also have a 3 part series of colored war-recordings, which was done by private civilian individuals, and was in colour too. I also saw "Panorama", Goebbels last propaganda material too, yet I will take a look, it might be I have missed some :)
10:04:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: that train is only like 5 tiles
10:04:39 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Thank you for the link!
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10:05:06 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: what is?
10:05:26 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: from my link above
10:05:31 <Diablo-D3> no no
10:05:34 <Diablo-D3> my comment was unrelated
10:05:56 <Diablo-D3> so, Im using industrial stations renewal... which station do I deliver livestock to?
10:06:12 <Diablo-D3> it doesnt seem right that I deliver it to a livestock station, since the graphics wont trigger
10:10:35 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I fear your conversation partner Elukka isn't around ;-)
10:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: whatever :)
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10:12:58 <planetmaker> well, I just wanted to agree with your statement wrt that train... but a bit pointless when it doesn't reach the intended audience ;-)
10:13:33 <Eddi|zuHause> that's a common problem when your time zones are out of synch :)
10:13:35 <planetmaker> so... maybe we should start adding some graphics? Would that meanwhile work?
10:13:50 <planetmaker> or do we still have to decide on the wagon length?
10:13:58 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i'm not done employing the odd-length templates
10:14:14 <planetmaker> "odd-length"?
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10:14:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: when all artists are drawing for the 12lu-variant, there's not much point arguing against it
10:14:49 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: odd as in 5lu/7lu/9lu etc.
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10:17:58 <planetmaker> hm, so 12lu for full-length wagons is decided?
10:18:17 <Eddi|zuHause> 26,5m wagons would be 13lu then
10:18:28 <planetmaker> that's a modern wagon length, right?
10:18:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:19:02 <Eddi|zuHause> ICE-TD heads are ~28m, so 14lu
10:19:07 <planetmaker> I tested the current cets a few days ago... what will be different with the <whatever> patches applied?
10:19:20 <Diablo-D3> man
10:19:32 <Diablo-D3> does anyone here use industrial station renewal?
10:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the first notable patch will make the train window and group windows show always the --- view
10:20:43 <planetmaker> ah, ok
10:20:44 <Eddi|zuHause> the second notable effect will (currently) be with the 14-16lu wagons
10:21:00 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, are the patches somewhere linked / mentioned in a cets issue?
10:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> the third notable effect will be that we slice up the sprites into 8lu parts, to make it less glitchy around bridges/tunnels/slopes, etc.
10:21:38 <planetmaker> If not... could you do me that favour :-) Like external dependency
10:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> but that part is not done yet
10:21:54 <Eddi|zuHause> need to check
10:22:03 <planetmaker> I didn't find it. But maybe I was just blind :-)
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10:33:25 <Diablo-D3> ugh
10:33:36 <Diablo-D3> does shit just cost dramatically more in the past?
10:33:55 <planetmaker> yeah. It was used as fertilizer back then
10:34:14 <Diablo-D3> hurr
10:34:27 <Diablo-D3> seriously, Im trying to start in 1870
10:34:30 <Diablo-D3> and I fail every time
10:37:16 <lugo> with inflation on or off?
10:38:31 <Diablo-D3> on
10:39:28 <planetmaker> well, then there'll be no inflation in 2040 anymore ;-)
10:41:05 <lugo> well some newgrfs such as ukrs and nars recommend inflation to be turned off, that might be your problem..
10:41:12 <peter1138> hurrrr
10:41:23 <peter1138> i can't change my desktop wallpaper... cos it's win 7 starter... :S
10:41:53 <planetmaker> lugo, how and why would they recommend that?
10:42:47 <Diablo-D3> peter1138: just install debian.
10:43:27 <lugo> planetmaker: how: why: dunno :)
10:47:34 <peter1138> hmm
10:47:44 <peter1138> OpenTTD 1.1.3 (Not Responding)
10:48:51 <peter1138> do we decompress the save game in the main thread?
10:48:57 <peter1138> (when joining a server)
10:56:59 <planetmaker> hm, I saw a certain peter join a certain server :-P
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11:17:36 <Diablo-D3> hrm, I must be blind
11:17:46 <Diablo-D3> I cant find leave station when any cargo is full
11:18:41 <planetmaker> 'full load any'
11:21:15 <peter1138> seems i fell off
11:23:34 <Diablo-D3> planetmaker: but theres no global setting for this?
11:26:05 <planetmaker> yes. we need definitely a global setting like 'now all vehicles should do <this>'
11:26:34 <planetmaker> please read the wiki about order menu
11:26:46 <Diablo-D3> yes Im already aware of the order menu
11:26:53 <Diablo-D3> since Ive been using for several years and all
11:27:09 <planetmaker> obviously you don't know it enough nor its short-cuts
11:27:24 <planetmaker> or you wouldn't have asked these questions
11:27:41 <planetmaker> But I forgot. You know everything already
11:27:47 <Diablo-D3> there are a few defaults in ottd, dude.
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12:20:00 <andythenorth> boom
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12:51:28 <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, the timetable window could use a few settings about default values that the dropdown-buttons should have
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12:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause> "pirate party could get too big success: if it gets around 10% of the votes, the pirate party could get more mandates than it has people on its list. some recent polls show it at up to 9%"
12:55:12 <Noldo> what?
12:55:28 <Eddi|zuHause> regional elections in berlin
12:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this sunday, i think
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13:02:11 <planetmaker> I doubt it'll come to that big success
13:02:25 <planetmaker> The more is written about it now, the smaller the success ;-)
13:02:42 <MNIM> I dunno
13:03:01 <MNIM> I honestly admit I voted for them at the latest euro elections >.>
13:03:01 <planetmaker> In the community elections here last Sunday they made it into many town councils, too, though
13:03:23 <MNIM> personally I think that's where they'll make the biggest difference
13:03:36 <planetmaker> maybe. maybe not
13:03:50 <planetmaker> their grass-root approach is appealing
13:03:58 <MNIM> true
13:04:12 <MNIM> especially with how german and dutch politics work
13:05:18 <Eddi|zuHause> let's see if they make it above the 5% boundary.
13:05:34 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a very necessary step in the development of the party
13:05:47 <Eddi|zuHause> if they don't make it in berlin, i don't see how they could make it anywhere else
13:06:49 <MNIM> hmmhh, well, berlin isn't the only modern city with a relatively young populace in this continent
13:06:53 <planetmaker> Hamburg and Bremen might work out. But Hamburg just had election recently
13:07:06 <Eddi|zuHause> both hamburg and bremen voted recently
13:07:09 <planetmaker> MNIM, no, but it's a fedaral state in Gemrany on its own
13:07:23 <planetmaker> thus getting some power there gives some influence even at federal level
13:07:27 <MNIM> ah yes, forgot that little detail
13:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and the pirate party were around 2% each time
13:08:09 <Eddi|zuHause> since the euro election, pirate party was pretty stable around 2%
13:08:13 <MNIM> the pirate party is quite active in germany, isn't it?
13:08:22 <planetmaker> relatively, yes
13:08:32 <MNIM> I've even gotten flyers and all last time I was in germany
13:08:34 <Eddi|zuHause> in all regional elections and the federal election
13:08:34 <planetmaker> it's still a small one
13:08:55 <planetmaker> But seems to be at the same level now as FDP :-P
13:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> 2% is far away from the 5% mark that you need to get into a parliament
13:09:01 <MNIM> hahaha
13:09:22 <planetmaker> MNIM, well, indeed. They got on average in the local elections more than FDP here in lower saxony
13:09:25 <planetmaker> last Sunday
13:09:30 <Eddi|zuHause> but it's above the 1% mark that you need to get financial boost for the next election
13:09:42 <MNIM> that's at least a help
13:11:54 <MNIM> I wish them luck, really
13:12:21 <MNIM> getting into berlin would probably be national news, and would be a lot of free publicity for the whole country
13:12:30 <planetmaker> quite so
13:12:50 <MNIM> perhaps even europe, but then it'll need to be big indeed
13:13:49 <MNIM> at least in the netherlands german federal elections hit our news sometimes
13:15:12 <planetmaker> well. National elections in another EU country usually are in the news
13:15:43 <hanf> yeah I would imagine the bbc would report something like that
13:15:54 * planetmaker rarely listens to BBC...
13:16:20 <planetmaker> not that they're bad, they're actually usually very good. But it wouldn't be my national news ;-)
13:16:40 <MNIM> meh, national elections definately hit the news, but germany has a little more attention to the dutch news, being our closest and biggest trade partner and all
13:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly sure danish elections were in a lot of news yesterday or today
13:17:07 <hanf> I don't really have a choice :p I'm british
13:17:16 <MNIM> hmmmh, not in ours as far as Im aware
13:17:17 <planetmaker> oh, Dutch elections last time were more than 10s report, too
13:17:26 <peter1138> wow & lol... it's against the EULA of windows 7 starter to change the desktop background...
13:17:31 <planetmaker> I haven't heart much of Danish elections yesterday
13:17:40 <Diablo-D3> hrm
13:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: haha :p
13:17:59 <Diablo-D3> "remove car at end on engine upgrade" should automatically add/remove cabooses and break vans
13:18:08 <MNIM> ah yes, our latest national elections. they were a bit of an election, yes, but not quite like the belgians can do it!
13:18:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: and how do you suggest the game should figure out what a caboose is?
13:18:37 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: have a flag for it :D
13:18:48 <MNIM> what does that function actually do?
13:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean: Diablo-D3 how do you propose adjusting callback 18 to make any sense
13:19:06 <MNIM> well, obviously it removes a car, but why and how?
13:19:07 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: honestly, I'd rather have nars and urks let me turn it off
13:19:20 <Diablo-D3> it seems to be the easier solution
13:19:32 <Diablo-D3> because the engines that need it should just make it part of the engine
13:19:38 <Diablo-D3> because we have double ended engines
13:19:43 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: callback 18 is the "AI train construction" callback
13:20:05 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: yes, but I am not an AI, and even I dont quite get it
13:20:21 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: caboose/brake van is usually not necessary on very short train
13:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: automatic wagon removal is quite an AI task
13:20:59 <Diablo-D3> Im using long trains, and it bitches that I dont have one installed
13:21:07 <Diablo-D3> and nars and ukrs2 arent cross compatible
13:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> why should they...
13:21:20 <Diablo-D3> so if I have a break van, I have to switch to a caboose on engine change
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13:21:29 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: well, the wiki implies they recognize each other
13:24:57 <Diablo-D3> Eddi|zuHause: Im all for realism and such, but bleh.
13:25:25 <V453000> *_*
13:29:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Content Industry says: Illegal downloads caused deadly accidents on belgian festival
13:29:05 <MNIM>
13:29:31 <MNIM> the steam loc toils up the mountain range to haul another load of coal to fuel the steel mill.
13:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> server not found
13:31:17 <Eddi|zuHause>
13:32:13 <MNIM> odd
13:32:18 <MNIM> it resolves for me
13:32:40 <MNIM> rrrrriiiiiiight
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13:33:01 <Diablo-D3> MNIM: I wonder how many people play that way
13:33:08 <Diablo-D3> instead of just brutally cutting through mountains
13:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> Diablo-D3: ever checked the screenshot forum?
13:33:30 <Diablo-D3> no
13:33:31 <planetmaker> MNIM, the empty roads are... dull
13:33:32 <MNIM> actually, a large part of that mountain range is created actually for that purpose
13:33:37 <planetmaker> Just let the town grow ;-)
13:33:54 <MNIM> Im more of a sandbox model trains player :P
13:34:02 <MNIM> I know, planetmaker
13:34:07 <planetmaker> and the track set... could use some snow improvement
13:34:19 <MNIM> the town is hardly a year old
13:34:34 <MNIM> so no bus service is put up yet
13:35:33 <planetmaker> which roads are those? TTRS?
13:35:38 <MNIM> yeap
13:35:54 <MNIM> they're not compatible with opengfx+ alpine climate
13:36:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't like TTRS for large number of reasons
13:36:01 <MNIM> or well, they mismatch
13:38:48 <V453000> well, there are many newGRFs that wont like if you use landscape replacements :)
13:40:09 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i use a hacked alpine set and default roads
13:41:03 <MNIM> yeah, but you've pretty much made most of 'em >.>
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13:42:45 <Eddi|zuHause> Saudi Arabia says: if USA veto creation of palestine state, they cancel cooperation with the USA
13:43:30 <norbert79> No wonder, Izrael was cut off from Palestina, now they even don't consider Palestina as a country anymore...
13:43:42 <norbert79> No wonder SA is angry
13:45:21 <Eddi|zuHause> context: after years of failed talks with israel about forming a palestine state, palestine authorities announced that they will ask UN to accept creation of palestine state without israel's consent, towards end of september 2011.
13:51:59 <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i heard, there is an alternative to the full UN membership, which would have to go through security council, where they apply for a lesser "non-membership state with observer rights" (a status similar to vatican's), which "only" has to be accepted by the general assembly
13:52:04 <perk111> can someone tell me if there is any overflow depot working with pf.yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol set to off?
13:52:33 <Eddi|zuHause> perk111: yes, i think you can do some magic with exit signals
13:53:57 <perk111> Eddi|zuHause: you mean this one?
13:54:30 <perk111> I spent 3 hours trying to find any working configuration :(
13:54:43 <Diablo-D3> meh
13:54:52 * Diablo-D3 ponders ditching nars and ukrs
13:54:54 <Eddi|zuHause> perk111: could be
13:55:13 <Diablo-D3> the vastly different sizes of engines makes automated play too difficult
13:55:25 <Eddi|zuHause> perk111: the trick is that firstred_exit_penalty is significantly higher than depot_reverse_penalty
13:56:01 <perk111> so?
13:58:39 <Belugas> hello
13:58:43 <Belugas> up?
13:59:05 <planetmaker> hi Belugas
14:06:17 <Eddi|zuHause> perk111: i think this should work: www.informatik.uni-halle/~krause/Unnamed,%2017.%20Maer%201922.png
14:06:28 <perk111> can't opent the link
14:06:36 <Eddi|zuHause> bäh
14:06:41 <perk111> Could not locate remote server
14:06:42 <Eddi|zuHause>,%2017.%20Maer%201922.png
14:07:08 <perk111> Eddi|zuHause: thanks, I'll give it a try
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14:12:22 <perk111> Eddi|zuHause: it seems to work, thanks a lot
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14:20:58 <MNIM> Oh, I think I know what the cause of not working links is
14:21:03 <MNIM> at least in my case
14:21:25 <MNIM> why the hell does OTTD put commas in a filename?
14:21:33 <__ln__> why not?
14:21:41 <PeanutHorst> beacuse it's bad form?
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14:22:04 <__ln__> if it's bad form, it wouldn't work at all.
14:22:15 <MNIM> it doesn't, that's the issue!
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14:22:42 <__ln__> i don't see anything non-working.
14:23:36 <MNIM> oh yeah? try this link.
14:23:36 <MNIM>
14:23:43 <MNIM> then this link.
14:23:44 <MNIM>
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14:24:07 <MNIM> same file, only difference is replacing ', ' with ' - '
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14:27:11 <Eddi|zuHause> how is that our fault?
14:28:07 <MNIM> well, somebody decided that screenprints should be stored as $companyname", "$date
14:28:14 <MNIM> (.png)
14:28:22 <Eddi|zuHause> you can change that, i believe
14:30:00 <MNIM> all I know of that can be changed is the date format
14:31:02 <Eddi|zuHause> btw. you should enable "check timetables: all except stopped vehicles"
14:32:44 <MNIM> train 5?
14:32:55 <MNIM> that's supposed to be a little historical exhibit :P
14:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, nothing wrong with that
14:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> just wanted to help you get rid of that annoying message
14:38:25 <MNIM> ah
14:38:28 <MNIM> oh, like that
14:38:46 <MNIM> where do I look for that, btw?
14:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> in advanced settings->vehicles->timetables or something
14:40:14 <MNIM> hmmmh, I don't have a timetables subfolder
14:42:58 <Alberth>
14:49:02 <MNIM> oh, I take it you have to dig into the config for that?
14:49:55 <MNIM> hmmmh
14:49:57 <MNIM> oh wait
14:50:03 <MNIM> excuse my blindness.
14:50:23 <MNIM> I keep looking over settings in the advanced settings window!
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14:55:45 <Belugas> #Son, he said, Grabs your things I'm gonna take you home
14:55:57 <Belugas> hello planetmaker :)
14:57:01 <Belugas> mmh... "I've come to take you home", rather
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14:59:19 <Rubidium> Belugas: how? I'm already home
14:59:42 <Alberth> that's makes his Belugas' task trivial :)
14:59:54 <Alberth> s/his//
15:00:02 <planetmaker> :-D
15:03:29 <MNIM> 0-o
15:03:30 <Belugas> Alberth, you' sure? I still have to get there to be sure he's indeed home...
15:03:40 <Belugas> and that ain't trivial in my case!
15:04:02 <Alberth> MNIM: you can read the config file instead of the advanced settings gui.
15:04:15 <MNIM> yeah, I found it already
15:04:51 <Alberth> Belugas: so you are lying? "I've come to ..." ?
15:05:08 <Alberth> sorry, have been reading too many math proofs, I guess :)
15:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: tell us when you arrive, and we can have an r<whatever> party then :p
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15:15:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "if you ask facebook to send you all data they store on you (which they are legally required to do, if you are european citizen, “Section 4 DPA” / “Art. 12 Directive 95/46/EG”), and you insist hard enough, they send you a CD with a PDF up to 500MB
15:15:43 *** perk111 has quit IRC
15:16:24 <planetmaker> :-D
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15:16:58 <Eddi|zuHause>
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15:24:31 <Belugas> Alberth : yup, quite:) I was singing, rather ;)
15:24:51 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause : make it instead a B and M party ;)
15:24:56 <Belugas> lots of B
15:26:10 <Rubidium> bugs and molds?
15:27:24 <Eddi|zuHause> that depends on your home :p
15:28:49 <Rubidium> haven't spotted bugs or molds lately within my home
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15:33:25 <Eddi|zuHause> we tend to have lots of spiders
15:33:30 <Belugas> not quite even close :)
15:34:09 <Belugas> Note that the B can be the same as insects, + a R ;)
15:38:40 <Alberth> Belugas: I am afraid you'd have to come here to explain it in person ;)
15:40:05 <Belugas> ...
15:40:08 <Belugas> BEES
15:40:11 <Belugas> BEERS
15:40:30 <Belugas> now, find out the M part!
15:40:35 <Belugas> no, it's not MEN
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16:02:45 <appe> what is the best way to make a city happy?
16:03:21 <V453000> magic dozer
16:04:31 <PeanutHorst> bribe 'em
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16:14:28 <Eddi|zuHause> build a busy bus/tram network
16:14:49 <Belugas> build a fair
16:18:47 <Belugas> and - no joke - plant trees
16:18:52 <Belugas> cities LOVE trees
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16:38:12 <Eddi|zuHause> "since the explosion in the southern french nuclear waste facility, radiation measurements have increased up to factor 10"
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16:38:44 <planetmaker> so they measure 10x as often?
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16:42:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure that's what they meant. how else can they announce that no radiation has been released, and there is no danger for employees and residents. well. other than the one that died.
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16:46:21 <planetmaker> :-)
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16:50:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... steam offers portal for free
16:50:30 <appe>
16:50:52 <appe> got tip'? :)
16:51:23 <Eddi|zuHause> other than "don't use maglev for cargo"?
16:51:46 <appe> really?
16:51:51 <V453000> wtf tip is that :D
16:51:54 <appe> how's that? :)
16:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> a not-v-compatible tip :p
16:52:26 <Eddi|zuHause> if you tell people to not use PBS, i can tell people to not use maglev.
16:52:39 <V453000> certainly but you dont have any reasons for it
16:52:43 <V453000> while I do
16:53:00 <appe> i dont really understand why not to use maglev, but.. it's rather boring.
16:53:02 <Eddi|zuHause> first and foremost, maglev looks ugly
16:53:10 <appe> the normal railway trains are fantasticly more fun
16:53:17 <V453000> cosmetic, matter of choice, I like how it looks for instance
16:53:32 <Eddi|zuHause> second, conversion is annoying
16:53:38 <Eddi|zuHause> third, it's "unrealistic"
16:54:19 <V453000> conversion can be solved either by starting late, or using universal engine
16:54:27 <V453000> unrealistic is not a reason but a proof of no reason
16:55:06 <appe> real men do never convert.
16:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> real men use a butterfly for conversion. err... wait... :p
16:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... how do i tell KDE to associate the "steam:" protocol with "wine steam.exe"?
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16:57:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so i can click on the "steam://install/400" link
16:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> for everyone else not having played a 5 year old game yet: (available for free until 20th september)
17:00:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ok, 4 years...
17:07:38 <appe> can i remove industries in some way?
17:08:41 <planetmaker> magic bulldozer
17:09:14 * planetmaker wonders whether conversion from rail to e-rail is 'unrealistic'
17:10:33 <appe> where do i find the setting?
17:10:43 <Eddi|zuHause> in the cheat window
17:11:20 <appe> sweet jesus. do you know how many years ive played this without knowing about this.
17:12:12 <valhallasw> Eddi|zuHause: /me clicks install
17:12:43 <valhallasw> thanks for the link
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17:19:22 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: fourth, there is no maglev available in the timespan "I'm" playing?
17:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> true, last time i played up to that time, was in 2005-ish ;)
17:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause> although i did prepare a track for a proposed maglev line in my last game, i just didn't get that far
17:22:50 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, when i watch "Ringer" and constantly think "when are the vampires jumping out", what am i doing wrong? :)
17:24:21 <valhallasw> hmm. "disk space required: 6GB. disk space available: 2GB". No portal for me -_-
17:26:27 <Rubidium> valhallasw: remove 4GB worth of OpenTTD savegames?
17:28:32 <planetmaker> that'd be A LOT savegames
17:29:21 <Eddi|zuHause> 1362848 save/
17:29:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i should probably check that out :p
17:31:17 <valhallasw> Rubidium: nah, it's just steam being annoying: steam is installed on my windows drive, and I just don't have much space there
17:31:45 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: for every game remove all but the latest save
17:32:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: how boring ;)
17:32:35 <Alberth> oh, you want more exciting? ok, remove 90% of the files by random
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17:33:41 <Rubidium> or, even more exiting: fill 90% of the blocks of the directory with random data
17:33:54 <andythenorth> fill 90% of openttd trunk with random data?
17:33:59 <andythenorth> that's never going to work
17:34:17 <andythenorth> you could tell them it's 'underground metro' though
17:34:43 <Alberth> who says current code is not random data?
17:35:11 * andythenorth wonders what the signal versus noise ratio is on trunk
17:37:41 <Eddi|zuHause> languages tend to have high redundancy
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18:02:28 <andythenorth> is there a YACD build compatible with FIRS 0.7.0 beta?
18:02:51 <Yexo> maybe this one?
18:02:58 <Yexo> what nightly does FIRS require?
18:03:10 <Eddi|zuHause> very recent
18:03:25 <andythenorth> not sure
18:03:43 <andythenorth> I pull every few days, so it usually just works for me
18:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think yacd itself is new enough, but the inofficial update should be
18:05:44 <Terkhen> I don't think so, maybe Foobar's build is
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19:11:27 <Eddi|zuHause> "sony plans to ban everybody from PSN who does not waive the right to sue over future security breaches"
19:12:08 <planetmaker> lol?
19:13:03 <appe> i dont get it. i fail to see what the difference of train power is
19:15:05 <Eddi|zuHause> "only chatters can formulate laughing as a question"
19:20:56 <Alberth> It took a while to realize both comments by Eddi were not about the same subject :)
19:21:24 <Alberth> train power?
19:21:55 <Belugas> flower power?
19:22:13 <Alberth> I have heard about that :)
19:22:25 <Belugas> hehehe
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20:51:21 <Terkhen> good night
21:01:42 <appe>
21:01:45 <appe> oops
21:01:58 <appe>
21:04:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm asking every time what a "gay zoo" is...
21:05:17 <planetmaker> "is doch klar..."
21:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, in combination with fonso's avatar, that makes some sense :p
21:07:18 <planetmaker> with emphasis on 'some'
21:08:50 <Eddi|zuHause>
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21:27:49 <z-MaTRiX> ĥ
21:37:43 <MNIM> dude, are all those water pump stations?
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23:02:02 <appe> guys, found a bug.
23:02:02 <appe>
23:02:18 <appe> busses killed by evil train apparently makes bridges go transparent.
23:04:45 <planetmaker> please produce a test case (i.e. a savegame where we wait a few days to see that)
23:05:37 <planetmaker> to me it looks like the normal transparency option turned to invisible
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23:13:31 <appe> oops
23:13:33 <appe> my bad.
23:13:34 <appe> :)
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