IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-14
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08:49:17 <peter1138> ah, bbc impartially promoting some entrepreneur
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10:42:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the trackdirs are somehow wrongly ordered
10:42:55 <Eddi|zuHause> TRACKDIR_X_NE and TRACKDIR_X_SW should be swapped
11:09:26 <Eddi|zuHause> someone tell andythenorth i updated the diff at www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diagonal_and_adjacent_crossings_r22664.diff
11:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but i still have some issue where it doesn't reserve tracks properly
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11:24:45 <Eddi|zuHause> damn, i always forget the -j12
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11:59:30 <dihedral> ding ding ding ding ding
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12:03:50 <nextinline> i got a strange bug
12:04:27 <nextinline> for some reason, the volume's really low even when the computer's at 100
12:04:49 <V453000> and openttd volume? ..
12:04:59 <nextinline> where do i find that
12:05:14 <V453000> in the music menu in game
12:05:49 <nextinline> for some reason its at minimum thanks
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13:00:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it's skew (if that's the right word)
13:24:05 <Eddi|zuHause> it's fairly useless to get humans on mars, i think we should rather get plants to mars, and let an ecosystem developed
13:26:09 <__ln__> do plants survive without animals?
13:29:30 <Eddi|zuHause> ones that grow blooms probably not.
13:29:44 <Eddi|zuHause> but to start up an ecology, you probably need more primitive ones
13:29:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the obvious first problem is the cold temperatures
13:31:32 <planetmaker> there are enough plants whose pollen carry by wind alone
13:33:37 <Eddi|zuHause> water might not be an immediate problem, so long as you have significant storages of oxygen and carbon atoms somewhere on the planet
13:34:12 <dihedral> well send a bottle of water every x years
13:34:37 <planetmaker> oxygen is there (that's why it's the red planet). Carbon... from the atmosphere. It's 95% CO2
13:35:06 <planetmaker> water... you have about a few µm of precipitation on Mars annually
13:35:37 <MNIM> You'll need bacteria and algae before big plants.
13:35:39 <planetmaker> compared to roughly a meter on Earth
13:36:01 <planetmaker> algae. lichen. They'll do for a starter indeed.
13:36:06 <MNIM> mostly because they're far more resilient, existing on both of our earth polar regions.
13:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the point is to get some sort of life cycle started, to build upon
13:37:16 <Eddi|zuHause> "life" in the sense of "processing chemicals"
13:38:06 <Eddi|zuHause> with a few pointers from mankind to make a process that takes 5 billion years to complete in a few hundred
13:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> bonus points for getting a breathable atmosphere
13:39:58 <Eddi|zuHause> but that might not be necessary
13:41:17 <planetmaker> yohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_trilogy :-)
13:42:16 <planetmaker> recommended reading on that topic ;-)
13:43:43 <__ln__> if e.g. the chinese chose to start terraforming mars, would other countries object?
13:44:06 <Eddi|zuHause> countries will always object to anything...
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13:52:30 <__ln__> i would like the extra 39 minutes in a day that they have
13:52:43 <__ln__> the martians, not the chinese
13:57:15 <dihedral> just please leave japanese people here as they are damaging the earth anyway ... (more so than others at least :P)
13:58:04 <planetmaker> that's not even true, if you go by media coverage.
13:59:24 <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not, mistakes and disasters bring further development than what would have happened otherwise
14:00:25 <Chris_Booth> if anything we should leave the canadians behind as they produce more CO2 and greenhouse gasses per person than any other nation in the world
14:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> actually inhabitants of the gulf states have the highest ecological footprint on the planet
14:01:50 <Chris_Booth> are you sure about that Eddi|zuHause?
14:02:03 <TWerkhoven> isnt petrol less than 50p a litre there?
14:06:10 <Chris_Booth> A cool animated website showing CO2 and birth rates
14:06:40 <Eddi|zuHause> CO2 makes around 50% of the ecological footprint
14:07:37 <Chris_Booth> yes I missed them on my cool map I was looking at as ther are so small
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14:33:05 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i am lacking an inspiration on what to do right now...
14:33:31 <Eddi|zuHause> not getting anywhere with the level crossing reservation problem
14:34:08 <dihedral> find me a nice holiday for around oct/nov ? :-P
14:34:29 <dihedral> (and affordable) :-P
14:35:07 <Eddi|zuHause> strange time for a holiday ;)
14:38:06 <dihedral> well - no chance in getting 14 days off any earlier
14:38:20 <Belugas> dihedral: come here :) I offer the bed, you offer the arms for basement painting and all ;)
14:38:29 <Alberth> dihedral: just quit your job :)
14:38:42 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: he already does that every half year :p
14:38:59 <dihedral> Belugas, that is honestly tempting
14:39:57 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, wrong :-P
14:40:03 <dihedral> has not happend in the last 6 months :-D
14:40:18 <dihedral> and i probably will not with this job either
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14:53:43 <andythenorth> why is alluke such an idiot?
14:54:41 <andythenorth> one of many unanswered questions in life :P
14:54:47 <andythenorth> the universe must know this stuff
14:55:06 <andythenorth> is there more information than there is universe?
14:55:42 <Belugas> dihedral, I'll allow you to get out of the basement at least once a day :) I'll drive you around on sundays as well
15:00:25 <peter1138> hurr, my du --max-depth 1 hasn't finished :S
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15:18:33 <andythenorth> that's kind of what I wanted to say, except I would have been ruder
15:18:51 <andythenorth> I have history with that fine community member
15:19:23 <andythenorth> he accused me of discrimination - his claim was that FISH would support FIRS better than other sets iirc :P
15:19:54 <andythenorth> discrimination is (a) an exercise of taste in one meaning (b) a dangerous word to throw around loosely in its other meaning
15:20:39 <planetmaker> lool. Did he really hold that against you?
15:20:51 <planetmaker> oh my. Lost cause then
15:52:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i smell a spammer in the graphics forum
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17:39:54 <Alberth> LordAro: my version of GrfHasReadme() does not use data members of the class (that is, it does not use "this->"). It can thus be a static function, or a function outside the class, whatever you prefer.
17:40:46 <Alberth> as for making a flag in the newgrf structure, it is an interesting idea, but are you going to support multiple languages?
17:41:51 <LordAro> so i just do (e.g.) static bool GrfHasReadme(... ?
17:42:04 <Alberth> if you do, you're going to need a flag for every language, making it a non-optimal solution, imho
17:43:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: it could be a flag for "has at least english readme", and then dynamically check if translations are available when displaying the readme
17:44:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or a very wide bitmask.
17:44:33 <Alberth> just put the function somewhere. I don't know what the code will finally look like, and moving is pretty easy.
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22665 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt romanian.txt):
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: portuguese - 5 changes by JayCity
17:45:23 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: romanian - 5 changes by kkmic
17:45:46 <Eddi|zuHause> raise(ESportIstMord)
17:47:09 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: it may be useful for enabling/disabling the 'read the readme' button perhaps.
17:47:46 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: yes, for enabling that button, only knowledge of an english/fallback readme is relevant
17:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> so you do not need a flag for each language
17:48:25 <Alberth> LordAro will keep it in mind :)
17:48:30 <Eddi|zuHause> upon clicking the button, it will search for a readme in the appropriate language, or show the fallback
17:49:10 <Alberth> why do people join and leave so fast?
17:49:28 <LordAro> will i? (keep it in mind? :)
17:50:56 <Alberth> I made a note too, in case you misplaced that information :)
18:15:08 * LordAro shoves the function in newgrf_config.cpp (for the record)
18:17:58 <Alberth> as long as it stays in your patch, it does not matter :)
18:21:12 <Eddi|zuHause> how evil would it be to break all grfs which do ActionA replacement of level crossings?
18:21:30 <LordAro> gah, computer's too slow to compile and watch youtube at the same time >< :)
18:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> (i.e. simply ignore that sprite)
18:22:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you mean the stupid pre-composited crossing sprite by any chance?
18:22:37 <Chris_Booth> Eddi|zuHause: would be funy IMO
18:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, that one. only allow the overlay-variant
18:23:02 <andythenorth> I proposed that earlier in the year :)
18:23:11 <andythenorth> when I dug into the crossing code, I thought it was a bit stupid
18:23:21 <andythenorth> I have n patches with different variations somewhere
18:23:43 <andythenorth> the cases for monorail and maglev suck I'm afraid
18:24:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: anyway, i updated the patch at the previous location, road vehicles should behave correctly now in both directions
18:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: the default rails need additional overlay sprites
18:24:34 <andythenorth> let me get my head back into everything I learnt about this
18:24:40 <andythenorth> I spent about a day on it in the end
18:25:35 <andythenorth> there's an issue that the pbs overlay sprite is also stupid, as it includes sleepers but not ballast
18:25:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i still have some case where it doesn't reserve paths correctly
18:25:50 <andythenorth> the pbs overlay should just include rails, but there's some reason it can't
18:26:00 <andythenorth> there's a different edge case somewhere iirc
18:26:08 <andythenorth> I was proven wrong at the time :P
18:26:43 <andythenorth> I remember my goal
18:26:59 <andythenorth> it was to prevent tram crossings showing tarmac where there's no tarmac road bit on the tile
18:27:01 <Alberth> get rich and famous ?
18:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> nah, you'll only have trouble with that
18:28:17 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: anyway....do you need new sprites for diagonals?
18:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> no, the diagonal sprites are ready
18:28:46 <Eddi|zuHause> they are taken from Maedhros' old patch
18:28:49 <andythenorth> I didn't want to draw them...but I would if no-one else had :P
18:29:35 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: do you need to eliminate that composite tile for your patch? As there is no diagonal
18:30:13 <Eddi|zuHause> the diagonal overlay sprites are here, if you want to take a look: www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/diag_cross.png
18:30:38 <Eddi|zuHause> all standard rails and their toyland counterpart
18:30:53 <andythenorth> so they're overlays
18:30:57 <andythenorth> not composited with road
18:31:07 <andythenorth> I wondered about two consecutive patches
18:31:10 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i thought better remove the composite variant completely
18:31:15 <andythenorth> one eliminating that tile entirely...
18:31:21 <andythenorth> and the diagonal patch
18:31:42 <Chris_Booth> ooh diagonal rail crossing shiny
18:31:43 <andythenorth> you have code for eliminating the composite tile?
18:32:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i also have no overlay graphics for the straight rails
18:32:26 <andythenorth> let me see if I kept my patch :P
18:32:35 <andythenorth> it would be commit #3 for me
18:32:37 <Eddi|zuHause> always keep your patches :p
18:34:16 <LordAro> help me someone :) i haven't touched the squirrel files...
18:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: that's the kind of error you get from forgetting a ; in a header file
18:35:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or other syntax errors
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18:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> "patch unexpectedly ends in middle of line"
18:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: compiles fine here, until newgrf_config.cpp
18:45:39 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAro: try a make clean?
19:13:00 <LordAro> Eddi|zuHause: done that :/
19:13:25 <LordAro> the errors i posted happen in ai_instance.cpp
19:19:36 <fjb> cr instead of crlf or the other way round at the end of a line?
19:20:29 <Rubidium> ai_instance.cpp includes a hell of a lot of files, so a missing } or something can yield a gigantic amount of errors that seem totally unrelated
19:20:43 <Rubidium> the problem almost certainly is in one of the headers you changed
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19:26:29 <Rubidium> can you show the diff?
19:30:09 <Rubidium> 1) why the fileio_func.h inclusion in newgrf_config.h?
19:31:09 <Rubidium> 2) constants are, IMO, more types that functions so it should be in fileio_type.h (is it actually used?)
19:32:02 <Rubidium> 3) for what its worth, it compiles ai_instance.cpp fine for me
19:32:10 <Rubidium> maybe it's the wrong diff?
19:32:49 <LordAro> 1) for the GrfHasReadme function
19:33:15 <LordAro> 2) maybe, its not used (yet) so it shouldn't be too much bother :)
19:33:16 <Rubidium> but only the implementation needs it, so the .cpp that implements it needs to include it
19:33:48 <LordAro> 3) okay... thats odd :)
19:33:53 <Rubidium> not some header, because in that case basically all headers need to include all other headers which makes compiling really really slow
19:54:03 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: you want me to test your latest patch?
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20:07:19 <supermop> i tried making a spreadsheet of the different roadtype elements and superpositions i would like yesterday
20:07:37 <supermop> but got a little hung up on a philosophical/conceptual issue
20:08:59 <supermop> well if there are 3 possible bits
20:09:30 <supermop> i'm guessing you could have a matrix with 3 axes
20:09:54 <supermop> but what to put on each axis was the problem
20:10:30 <supermop> at first i decided to have the first axis be for the pavement type
20:10:50 <supermop> and the second for area (rural/urban etc)
20:10:59 <supermop> then the 3rd for power
20:11:13 <Hellaciouss> hmmm i dunno what grf is in this game but monorail systems attached to raw materials seem to make the producer of the raw material skyrocket in produced products per month
20:11:24 <supermop> ie, none, cable vault, trolley wire
20:11:26 <Hellaciouss> this coal mine has 1,400 coal a month production
20:11:55 <Hellaciouss> and everything else being used in conjuction with monorail has fairly high output
20:12:05 <Hellaciouss> anything with maglev or electric is normal
20:13:03 <Rubidium> a high station ration significantly increases the chance of production increases, regardless the behaviour is 'random'
20:13:38 <Rubidium> so even with perfect ratings an industry can close, or with the baddest rating it can get to maximum production
20:14:29 <Rubidium> although maglev should do better than monorail in creating high ratings
20:14:42 <Rubidium> but... new vehicles temporarily create a higher rating as well
20:15:06 <Rubidium> so the results might be skewed for some reason
20:15:31 <Rubidium> also lots of waiting cargo reduces the ratings significantly
20:15:47 <Hellaciouss> well nothing without monrail has an abnormal production rating
20:16:01 <Hellaciouss> everything monorail has pretty high production rating
20:16:25 <Hellaciouss> guess it's just a coincidence
20:18:03 <Rubidium> in any case, the industry code has no clue what kind of station receives the cargo. So it can't be coupled to the type of station (or railtype)
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20:20:41 <Hellaciouss> just sayin, it's od that every single monorail connected facility has 3-4 times the production rate then any maglev or electic
20:20:54 <Hellaciouss> guess the stars just aligned
20:54:39 <andythenorth> docks might cost more in property maintenance than rail stations? :o
20:54:59 <andythenorth> 14 rail stations is about £8 / year
20:55:30 <andythenorth> 14 docks seems to be about £16k
20:55:51 <andythenorth> are both tiles of a dock counted?
20:56:03 <andythenorth> I might be remembering wrong though
20:56:53 <planetmaker> bah... Nekomaster is soooo thick
20:58:16 <planetmaker> anyway... good night all :-)
21:06:28 * andythenorth is rather glad that pikka has no shame about infringing copyright
21:06:33 <andythenorth> it makes TAI rather good
21:06:41 <andythenorth> although of no use if we need to maintain his set :P
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23:16:26 <Nowaker> hi. anyone can tell me how to generate a map from heightmap on dedicated server?
23:16:55 <Nowaker> what the commands are. I couldn't find it in ottd wiki
23:43:05 <Eddi|zuHause> Nowaker: best if you generate the map on single player, and upload the scenario/savegame then onto the server
23:43:29 <Eddi|zuHause> no idea if there actually are commands
23:51:08 <Nowaker> Eddi|zuHause: I see. thanks
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