IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-15
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06:50:38 <planetmaker> moin
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08:27:58 <LordAro> mornings
08:33:32 <Alberth> mornink
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08:36:07 <LordAro> hi Alberth
08:36:20 <LordAro> i think i may have fixed the latest weird errors
08:36:43 <LordAro> compliation has got past ai_instance.cpp anyway...
08:36:48 <Alberth> oh, you are not going to make more weird errors? :p
08:37:18 <LordAro> of course! it'd be no fun without them :)
08:37:19 <Alberth> I do that too every now and then
08:38:50 <Alberth> it looks pretty scary, but it is usually easy to fix
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08:51:59 <LordAro> yeah, i think i just had an #include in the wrong place (which is odd, considering the error messages...)
08:53:58 <LordAro> excellent! seems to be compiling (that is, it's got past all the files i've modified) :)
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09:12:10 <LordAro> lol, tags for the logic train(on bananas) : "openttd, logic, fast, ammler, openttdcoop, sex, fun, whatever"
09:16:57 <LordAro> hmm, when i exit the newgrf settings window, i get many lines like:
09:16:57 <LordAro> dbg: [grf] [firs_industry_replacement_set-0.6.4\firs.grf:2853] DecodeSpecialSprite: Skipping action 0x02 in stage 3
09:16:57 <LordAro> dbg: [grf] [firs_industry_replacement_set-0.6.4\firs.grf:2854] DecodeSpecialSprite: Skipping action 0x02 in stage 3
09:16:57 <LordAro> dbg: [grf] [firs_industry_replacement_set-0.6.4\firs.grf:2855] DecodeSpecialSprite: Skipping action 0x02 in stage 3
09:16:57 <LordAro> is that just because of my debug level, or is it something else?
09:17:21 <peter1138> its your debug level
09:18:42 <LordAro> good, just checking, because it freezes for about a minute or 2
09:19:30 <Alberth> wth lots of disk activity? it may just be scanning your directories looking for data files
09:20:23 <LordAro> i don't think so, i think the majority is printing all of the above
09:20:37 <LordAro> there were many thousands of lines like that
09:21:06 <peter1138> if you're using a slow terminal (especially with antialiased fonts) it can take a while to output it
09:21:54 <LordAro> is mingw slow? idk
09:22:13 <Eddi|zuHause> very probably
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09:25:26 <LordAro> what would be a recommended debug level?
09:26:44 <peter1138> what are you debugging?
09:28:49 <LordAro> not much i guess, i just like the console output, makes me feel important
09:28:57 <LordAro> :)
09:28:58 <peter1138> ...
09:29:09 <LordAro> i'll go for 1 then :)
09:29:33 <peter1138> go for 0, really
09:30:31 <LordAro> :)
09:35:10 <LordAro> Alberth: i seem to have broken your GrfHasReadme function (when i was fiddling around with chars) it seems to always return true, can you check it for me?
09:36:26 <Alberth> can you not compare against the previous version?
09:38:19 <LordAro> no...
09:40:10 <Alberth> <-- this is the version I have
09:40:54 <Alberth> (I am busy doing other things now)
09:43:09 <LordAro> ok, i'll try not too bother you then
09:43:25 <LordAro> *to
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10:09:35 <LordAro> ah, i was missing a '!' :rolleyes:
10:10:08 <Eddi|zuHause> happens to the best of us ;)
10:11:03 <LordAro> and the worst :L
10:13:59 <Eddi|zuHause> is there like an "include if exists" directive, or do i have to create lots of empty files?
10:15:02 <Alberth> depends on your language processor :) in CPP, no such thing
10:16:03 <Eddi|zuHause> ah well...
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10:35:06 <Atary> hi
10:35:19 <Alberth> hi
10:35:48 <Atary> how are you?
10:35:59 <Alberth> in need of some coffee
10:36:30 <Atary> :)
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10:43:26 <LordAro> that was interesting...
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10:44:38 <Alberth> not really, I still don't have coffee :P
10:45:23 <V453000> :d
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11:16:46 <thewanderer> hi, who's the release manager? any chance that there be digital signatures for the packages?
11:17:57 <Ammler> what is the advantage to the md5/sha sums?
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11:18:47 <thewanderer> that the signature can not be faked
11:20:02 <peter1138> do people actually check them? heh
11:22:55 <thewanderer> seeing how vsftpd got backdoored lately, I bet they will :P
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11:33:04 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: suggestion: extension ".gnml" for autogenerated files?
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11:53:16 <LordAro> thewanderer: why do you want digital signatures?
11:57:20 <thewanderer> LordAro: to install binary packages without reading all the source and compiling it first
11:58:23 <LordAro> which (i presume) is quicker?
11:58:56 <Eddi|zuHause> thewanderer: which part of a signature is unfakeable?
11:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> i mean in a way that someone is able to post modified builds in accordance to his GPL rights
12:00:00 <thewanderer> sure, but then he has to sign that with his own key
12:00:55 <Ammler> how do you modifiy packages without changing the md5sum?
12:01:02 <Eddi|zuHause> how does that help then, if someone can replace both the binary with his own binary and the signature with this own signature?
12:02:04 <thewanderer> Eddi|zuHause: it is expected that people who validate signatures routinely will have the original keys and will be able to tell that the signature comes from someone else
12:02:31 <thewanderer> Ammler: you don't. if you're a cracker, you modify the packages and the md5sums displayed on the website.
12:03:19 <Eddi|zuHause> thewanderer: so if it involves work, one may as well compare the md5sum with the one posted a month ago?
12:04:19 <thewanderer> yes, but a wise attacker will post a fake release announcement and link to a newer version so that the md5sum is not supposed to match :P
12:05:19 <Eddi|zuHause> i still don't see what advantage a signature has there...
12:05:49 <thewanderer> the advantage is that if a file is faked, and its signature is replaced, there is a way to tell that it does not come from the original author
12:05:52 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: you have the key already locally
12:06:04 <Ammler> it is like the packages from distros are signed
12:06:09 <thewanderer> yes, the chain of trust has to be established, as Ammler said
12:06:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: but i can as well store the md5sum locally?
12:06:35 <Ammler> yep, but that changes with every releases
12:23:21 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why is "kW" not a valid unit in nml?
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12:53:13 <Eddi|zuHause> quickly a hg guru: how do i remove an erratic commit from my local hg repo?
12:59:23 <Alberth> hg rollback
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13:02:45 <pikka> hello
13:20:01 <Ammler> or strip
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13:20:59 <MNIM2> eddi's not a stripper.
13:21:12 <MNIM2> or as they call it, a 'professional clothes remover'
13:30:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... need a new trick for the availability checks...
13:30:31 <pikka> a sartorial deconstructionalist?
13:33:59 <Eddi|zuHause> does nml have the concept of functions?
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13:56:54 <Ammler> is oberhümer a German too?
13:58:02 <Eddi|zuHause> at least he has proven to speak german :p
13:59:25 <Ammler> he applied to help with cets :-)
14:02:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
14:03:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker tried to recruit him as artist, as far as i understand
14:03:33 <confound> <3 "sartorial deconstructionist"
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14:07:56 <V453000> is CETS really expected to have like 270 engines? .o
14:08:26 <MNIM2> how many does 2CC have right now?
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14:09:31 <Ammler> hmm, 270 only
14:10:23 <MNIM2> hmmmh.
14:10:34 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: you wouldn't normally have all of them available
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14:10:56 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: and i expect even more to enter the tracking table
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14:11:28 <MNIM2> I like 2CC's proposal to have engines available depending on region
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14:11:34 <MNIM2> uh-oh, netsplat
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14:12:19 <MNIM2> though there's one but
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14:12:25 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM2: more like the coop-bouncer going offline
14:12:31 <MNIM2> I like the American freight engines.
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14:12:36 <MNIM2> coop-bouncer?
14:12:49 <MNIM2> while I like everything else euro
14:13:30 <MNIM2> so there's only a select few engines from other regions I want to see, but such does not seem to be possible.
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14:13:53 <Eddi|zuHause> MNIM2: can't satisfy everybody
14:13:57 <MNIM2> instead, it would be much nicer to be able to divide the engine list into tabs per region
14:14:00 <MNIM2> true, true. :P
14:14:13 <MNIM2> but I don't think that that would be easy to do, coding-wise
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14:14:40 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: currently, there's around 100 "core" engines
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14:14:48 <V453000> that is still an insane amount
14:14:59 <MNIM2> pfft
14:15:09 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: over 100 years?
14:15:10 <V453000> wont most of them remain useless?
14:15:27 <MNIM2> as eddi said, over more than 100 years
14:15:45 <V453000> yes
14:15:59 <MNIM2> also, just look at the options most real-life rail companies have
14:16:02 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: some of them are exclusively DB, and others exclusively DR, so you have even less
14:16:28 <MNIM2> the dutch railways, for example, have the choice between dutch, belgian, german, french and scandinavian vehicles
14:16:39 <V453000> MNIM2: making a newgrf by just copying real life is in my opinion dumb
14:17:01 <MNIM2> not so much choice in pure belgians or dutch engines nowadays, but still. :P
14:17:25 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the timeline looks fairly balanced. the only currently planned real "redundancy" is by railtype (heavy mainline, light branchline)
14:17:49 <MNIM2> V453000: the purpose of ottd, as far as Ive gathered, is to provide a versatile and mostly realistic transport sim.
14:18:00 <Alberth> false
14:18:11 <confound> mostly realistic? ha ha ha
14:18:26 <MNIM2> having only twenty engines available over a period of at least hundred years is hardly realistic, and certainly not versatile
14:18:40 <MNIM2> read /mostly/ realistic. :P
14:19:02 <MNIM2> I should say, realistically complicated.
14:19:16 <MNIM2> ottd, in my classifications, is a high IQ game.
14:20:03 <Alberth> but not aimed at realism, no matter how much players think it is
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14:20:26 <MNIM2> lol, maybe it's the other way round, alberth ;)
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14:20:56 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the plan was to have a new engine around every ten years for each category (local, commuter, express, light cargo, heavy cargo), each with a normal and electric variant
14:21:10 <Alberth> neither, it contains things that are fun for the game, whether it happens in RL or not, is not relevant
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14:21:21 <Alberth> you can use RL for inspiration, of course
14:21:24 <Eddi|zuHause> so that amounts to roughly 100 engines
14:21:33 <Eddi|zuHause> bah, he's gone again
14:21:51 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: quit playing with the server :p
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14:28:29 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: not me :-P
14:28:33 <Ammler> (this time)
14:29:12 <MNIM2> suuure
14:30:25 <V453000> +hmf :d
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15:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> [15.07.2011 16:20] <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the plan was to have a new engine around every ten years for each category (local, commuter, express, light cargo, heavy cargo), each with a normal and electric variant
15:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> [15.07.2011 16:21] <Eddi|zuHause> so that amounts to roughly 100 engines
15:38:30 <V453000> well, yeah, that is quite good, I am doing something very similar myself, but the key thing is - do the engines improve from one version to the next one?
15:38:49 <V453000> like ... 1930s light cargo train being "worse" than 1940s
15:38:50 <V453000> etc
15:39:58 <V453000> if not then the 1940s one is likely to be useless
15:40:00 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: occasionally not, especially after the "war gap" in the DR-side
15:40:08 <V453000> lol :)
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15:41:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the BR 01.10 and the BR E18 do 150km/h as an "express" engine, but after the war the BR 01.05 and BR E11 only do 130/120 km/h
15:41:44 <Rubidium> regarding the whole signature thing: a good cracker will actually modify the compile farm, so it won't even be noticable to the one signing the binaries that a backdoor has been inserted
15:42:40 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: that is based on "real" stats I assume eh? :(
15:43:10 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: and the first engine doing more than 140km/h afterwards will be 40 years later the ICE1
15:43:41 <V453000> so BR E18 is likely to be used for more than 50 years
15:44:01 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: well there's only so much you can do to tweak stats...
15:44:16 <Eddi|zuHause> V453000: the E18 will only be available for a short time
15:44:31 <V453000> expecting vehicles never expire to be off?
15:44:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. of course you can "cheat" that way ;)
15:44:53 <V453000> uhh
15:44:54 <V453000> okay
15:45:10 <V453000> well, guess I cant help you there :D good luck
15:45:17 <Eddi|zuHause> or you can just select the "extended" set, which may include some prototype E18 that went 180km/h
15:45:33 <V453000> :d
15:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> and the BR 18 201 as a steam engine also in that speed range
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15:50:57 <V453000> Eddi|zuHause: my table of speeds
15:50:58 <V453000>
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15:51:26 <V453000> note: the set is called "unrealistic" so war isnt a problem :P
15:51:56 <Eddi|zuHause> <- this is the 18 201. said to be the fastest currently operational steam engine
15:53:06 <V453000> shiny
15:53:26 <V453000> but not a single train of mine will have a "real" counterpart :P
15:54:24 <Eddi|zuHause> well, we already left out the fastest pre-war engines, like the E19 or the BR 05 and BR 61, which already went ~180km/h
15:54:41 <V453000> he :d
15:55:06 <V453000> im glad I am not a slave of "real" values :PPP
15:55:45 <Eddi|zuHause> some speed records from pre-war era were only broken after 50 years by ICE trains. and some others are still in place
15:56:22 <V453000> yep reality sucks for a game :)
15:56:32 <Alberth> a monopolist has no desire impressing the general public :)
15:56:58 <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the record for the line Berlin-Dresden, operated pre-war by the BR 61 is still not broken, since the ICE has an intermediate stop in Berlin-Südkreuz
15:57:00 <supermop> ottd should have no wars, thus no post-war engines
15:57:02 <Rubidium> pff, those number look pretty ℝeal to me ;)
15:57:15 <V453000> :d
15:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: he said unrealistic, not unreal :p
15:58:01 <Rubidium> he talked about '"real" values'
15:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, missed that line ;)
16:01:10 <V453000> Rubidium: well, might seem real but they are based on a game instead of saying "hitler was bad so our engines are going to be slow"
16:01:10 <V453000> :P
16:04:37 <__ln__> number one news headline in finland currently: arrogant germans
16:05:10 <V453000> :D
16:10:48 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: in how far is that news?
16:13:03 <__ln__> when a newspaper (a tabloid, but still) writes literally about "arrogant germans", somehow that reminds me of some war-time propaganda.
16:14:06 <__ln__> "watch the video of the arrogant germans here!
16:15:08 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: and in how far do you remember war-time propaganda? ;)
16:15:59 <__ln__> admittedly i was quite young
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16:33:47 <Ammler> [17:41] <Rubidium> regarding the whole signature thing: a good cracker will actually modify the compile farm, so it won't even be noticable to the one signing the binaries that a backdoor has been inserted <-- quite harder as cracking a random mirror
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17:12:28 <Terkhen> hello
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17:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> hm. will this work? "climates_available: (avail_DR_4_core||avail_DBAG_5_core) ? ALL_CLIMATES : NO_CLIMATE;"
17:14:42 <Rubidium> Ammler: but a cracked mirror is somewhat pointless as the next rsync will overwrite the changes
17:16:49 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: i see no reason why it should not
17:19:18 <Ammler> Rubidium: well, IMO it is useless anyway
17:19:29 <Ammler> you can't trust upstream anyway :-)
17:19:37 <Eddi|zuHause> there are very few arguments for the signature thing
17:20:13 <Ammler> we had such discussions on the distro side too
17:27:41 <Rubidium> any form of signatures, be it checksums or something more eleborate, need a guaranteed safe place for storing the related data. Without that all is lost. Given there is no guaranteed safe place, it's already lost
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17:34:47 <Ammler> well, signing with e.g. gpg could be done via 3rd party so someone would need to hack 2 services
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17:36:43 * Rubidium will just assume the compiler is compromised
17:37:38 <Rubidium> i.e. the compiler inserts a backdoor of sorts
17:38:40 <Rubidium> which might actually already be happening, just assume that it's smart enough to put the backdoor in binaries during linking
17:45:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22666 /trunk/src/lang/ (czech.txt luxembourgish.txt):
17:45:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: czech - 7 changes by micropro_cz
17:45:25 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: luxembourgish - 9 changes by Phreeze
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17:48:19 <Wolf01> hello
17:49:01 <fjb> Moin Wolf01
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17:58:06 <Eddi|zuHause> yaaay... i got a compiled GRF ;)
17:58:52 <V453000> long way to go until that point for me :D
17:59:40 <Eddi|zuHause> it currently has ca. 40000 lines :p
18:00:20 <MNIM2> ...isn't that rather long for a grf?
18:00:48 <Ammler> depends if it is nfo or nml :-)
18:01:57 <Eddi|zuHause> it's mostly autogenerated NML from the properties of the tracking table
18:02:31 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you assume 200 engines, it's about 200 lines per engine
18:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> half of which is properties, the other half sprites and callbacks
18:02:54 <V453000> 200 lines per engine? :D
18:02:56 <Ammler> hmm, firs nfo and nml is almost same length
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18:04:12 <Eddi|zuHause> so far seems to work as well
18:04:18 <Eddi|zuHause> lots of features missing
18:04:23 <Eddi|zuHause> like engine name :p
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18:07:14 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: you know the makefile: can you move into scripts and call it from the makefile?
18:08:57 <planetmaker> yes, I'll do that
18:09:31 <planetmaker> I wanted to ask you about that anyway, whether it had a reason to put it into the main dir :-)
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18:09:47 <planetmaker> good evening also :-)
18:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: no reason, just quick and dirty
18:10:03 <V453000> hello good sir :)
18:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what's the working directory if it's called from the makefile?
18:10:45 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: gnml won't be recognized by dep checks...
18:10:54 <planetmaker> what's the reason for that extension?
18:11:09 <planetmaker> (yes, it can be added there, too, just curious)
18:11:11 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: something different than pnml so i can do things like "find | xargs rm"
18:11:39 <Eddi|zuHause> also "make clean" should do that
18:11:54 <Eddi|zuHause> the .gnml files shouldn't be manually modified
18:12:13 <planetmaker> ok
18:12:31 <planetmaker> So... they're generated by the makefile?
18:12:43 <Eddi|zuHause> they are generated by
18:12:43 <planetmaker> (or should be)
18:12:50 <planetmaker> ok... so by Makefile ;-)
18:12:54 <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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18:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> we might want to add a check whether the file was modified during generation process, to avoid unnecessary dep triggers
18:13:49 <planetmaker> how do you mean?
18:13:54 <planetmaker> Makefile does that automatically
18:14:04 <planetmaker> that's one of the points of using make ;-)
18:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: but overwrites the file, invalidating the timestamp
18:14:26 <planetmaker> well, that depends on how is called ;-)
18:14:31 <Eddi|zuHause> it does that regardless of whether the file changed
18:14:37 <planetmaker> it has an input file.
18:14:48 <planetmaker> yes, of course
18:15:01 <planetmaker> but it won't be called when not needed ;-)
18:15:02 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but changes in the input file don't necessarily change all output files ;)
18:15:20 <planetmaker> well... it's one grf anyway only
18:15:25 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it probably doesn't matter
18:15:28 <planetmaker> so... re-compilation has to be done entirely anyway
18:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> nmlc took quite long ;)
18:15:47 <planetmaker> :-)
18:17:49 <planetmaker> hm... can we rename the tracking table to NOT use spaces?
18:18:21 <Eddi|zuHause> stumbled upon that myself :p
18:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> hg's tabcompletition fails to escape them
18:18:50 <planetmaker> and shell scripts usually don't like that either ;-)
18:19:05 <planetmaker> for i in $filenames; do ... will completely fail on that
18:19:41 <planetmaker> is there a reason for the name as is?
18:20:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that was the name google chose on exporting the file
18:20:36 <planetmaker> Renaming the tab will help, I guess
18:20:37 <Eddi|zuHause> but rename it if you want ;)
18:20:47 <Eddi|zuHause> it's not the tab name
18:21:01 <planetmaker> ah. Yes, I want to kill the spaces ;-)
18:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, renaming the whole table did it.
18:21:49 <Eddi|zuHause> is now _
18:22:06 <planetmaker> both spaces?
18:22:10 <Eddi|zuHause> rename it in the repo and in
18:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, both spaces are now _
18:23:37 <Eddi|zuHause> enough for one day... next task: handle vehicle names
18:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> we might need to autogenerate the lang file as well
18:24:44 <Eddi|zuHause> makes it difficult to have translated names for the vehicles
18:25:07 <planetmaker> Hm...
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18:40:38 <Eddi|zuHause> hg rebase works nicely, it seems ;)
18:43:33 <planetmaker> for one commit there's hg rollback
18:44:11 <planetmaker> same effect but maybe slightly faster
18:44:16 <Eddi|zuHause> rebase is for when i forget to pull before commit/push
18:44:30 <planetmaker> hg rollback; hg up; (up up enter)
18:44:40 <planetmaker> hm.. one up missing or so ;-)
18:45:10 <Eddi|zuHause> ci, ci, ci, push/fail, pull, rebase, push/succeed
18:46:20 <Eddi|zuHause> but i didn't get an email for your push
18:47:54 <Eddi|zuHause> seems email notifications don't cover the repository, only the tickets
18:48:54 <planetmaker> hm... I got a dep check infinite loop :-P
18:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds fun :p
18:54:10 <planetmaker> takes a bit to compile indeed :-)
18:54:23 <planetmaker> I guess you added meanwhile 2^n engines to the set ;-)
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18:54:42 <Eddi|zuHause> one engine per tracking table entry
18:54:50 <Eddi|zuHause> 260-ish
18:54:54 <planetmaker> which is not little ;-)
18:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> it already works better than i expected to get today ;)
18:57:00 <planetmaker> hm, seems that Makefile change works :-)
18:58:39 <LordAro> it's annoying how doxygen shows no trace of functions that have no documentation... is there perhaps a config flag that can be changed?
18:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure there is
18:59:38 <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe you should just document each function :p
19:02:00 <LordAro> me? pfft. i barely undersdtand the short function that Al berth gave me earlier :L
19:02:08 <LordAro> *understand
19:04:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: check it out whether that suits you
19:05:12 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: later
19:05:13 <planetmaker> My tests work... but there sometimes happen to be cases which I fail to see in makefile deps :-)
19:05:28 <planetmaker> no rush :-)
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19:16:44 <LordAro> with FioFOpenFileTar(), where does the "size_t *filesize" come from, and how do i get it?
19:19:29 <frosch123> if it is not documented, then grep for usages of that function in the source, figure it out, write the documentation, and submit the documentation patch to
19:20:57 <LordAro> guessed that may be my answer :)
19:22:42 <LordAro> also, who wants to use grep? i use crtl+shift+f in notepad++ :P
19:23:46 <V453000> what does that do? something like grep?
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19:30:36 <LordAro> "Find in files"
19:30:57 <LordAro> (i.e. /src dir)
19:31:52 <frosch123> "grep" is a verb
19:34:39 <LordAro> "grepping" :)
19:38:09 * Alberth acks nowadays
19:40:13 <Alberth> LordAro: it is an output argument
19:41:53 <Alberth> if (filesize != NULL) *filesize = entry->size; <-- that writes data in a supplied variable
19:43:05 <LordAro> so it's optional?
19:43:53 <Alberth> yep, just set it to NULL
19:43:56 <Eddi|zuHause> can pass NULL and ignore it
19:45:01 <Alberth> but you may want to know how many bytes you need to malloc for the file :p
19:45:11 <LordAro> so "FioFOpenFileTar(<some tar thingy>, NULL)" ?
19:45:16 <LordAro> true...
19:46:15 <Alberth> size_t size ; FILE *fp = FioOpenFileTar(<tar-entry>, &size);
19:49:00 <LordAro> &size being NULL..
19:49:53 <Alberth> char *text = MallocT<char>(size); if (fread(text, 1, size, fp) != size) { /* error */ ; return ... }; fclose(fp);
19:50:16 <Alberth> no, &size give the address in memory where the 'size' value is stored
19:50:31 <Alberth> NULL is a constant, denoting 'invalid address'
19:51:52 <Alberth> hmm, should be "MallocT<char>(size+1);
19:52:06 <Alberth> and at the end, do text[size] = '\0';
19:52:58 <Ammler> [20:46] <Eddi|zuHause> but i didn't get an email for your push <-- you could watch #openttdcoop.devzone
19:53:10 <Ammler> or the activity feed
19:53:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i want an e-mail notification. nothing more, nothing less
19:53:53 * LordAro saves another log of this channel :)
19:54:22 <Alberth> I thought you'd first do rendering of text to the window :)
19:54:29 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: gimme the hook I should install :-P
19:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i did get emails for the ticket changes, but not for the push
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19:55:31 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's normal
19:56:11 <planetmaker> e-mail upon push is not (yet) implemented at the devzone
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19:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i want an email for every entery on the activity tab, except my own
19:57:17 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: getting notifications is overrated :)
19:57:26 <Ammler> like "any event" in the notification settings should imply
19:57:56 <Alberth> good night
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20:00:39 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: exactly.
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20:05:10 <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause:
20:05:17 <Ammler> should be doable
20:05:35 <Ammler> I guess redmine itself is not able yet
20:05:44 <Ammler> s/guess/know/
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20:08:46 <Ammler> I would add the config file to .devzone
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20:57:56 <LordAro> night all
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21:32:15 <dragonhorseboy> hey
21:32:26 <__ln__>
21:33:20 <dragonhorseboy> any of you think it couldn't be too hard to write a compactibility layer for working tcp/ip in ottd-dos? considering that arachne web browser proves that it can be done
21:34:23 <__ln__> would there be a reason for doing that besides proving it can be done?
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21:34:41 <dragonhorseboy> more multiplayer users? :)
21:35:21 <__ln__> two more?
21:35:42 <dragonhorseboy> lot more than that?
21:36:04 <__ln__> what kind of people use dos today for games?
21:36:20 <dragonhorseboy> many especially the ones that aren't running windows by default as well
21:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: we will eagerly await your patch.
21:36:47 <dragonhorseboy> I've kinda almost quitted bothering with ottd because .. mm well yeah no mutliplayer ^-^
21:37:09 <__ln__> dragonhorseboy: i checked my calendar and it says the year is 2011. probably something like 199x over there?
21:37:15 <dragonhorseboy> eddilzu....heh well problem would be if I was to code it might mess up things so :)
21:37:20 <dragonhorseboy> ln..nope..its 2011
21:38:17 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: when reading this article i constantly have this thought in mind: "we will give you 'protection' if you voluntarily give us some money"
21:39:32 <dragonhorseboy> eddilzu for that reason it might be better to let someone do it unless we want to cause a new port
21:39:42 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: only communists would offer protection without payment.
21:39:49 <dragonhorseboy> protection for money? heh thats probably not much new
21:41:26 <__ln__> i can believe people are playing old dos games in dosbox. i can even believe they are running dos on real hardware to do that. but i cannot believe it's the only OS available to them.
21:42:10 <dragonhorseboy> ln..theres more than dosbox and for the record..yes sometimes its the only one without a major complete rewrite of the game
21:42:23 <Eddi|zuHause> who the hell is this eddilzu guy you keep talking to?
21:42:39 <dragonhorseboy> i used to try freeciv for some time till they dropped a few platforms and I was on one of them so...had to quit :/
21:44:27 <__ln__> which platform was that?
21:47:01 <dragonhorseboy> lazy recompile of riscos/netbsd blend which rather worked well for months
21:47:20 <__ln__> i see
21:47:35 <dragonhorseboy> now like with everything else theres only basically windows/linux left..nothing else.. where's bsd at all anyway
21:48:52 <dragonhorseboy> at least macsoft is still around for most retail shelf games
21:49:47 <confound> so wait, you're saying there are people running openttd under dosbox rather than running it directly under some unix?
21:49:50 * confound boggles
21:49:58 <dragonhorseboy> confound its not unix btw
21:50:11 <confound> "it"
21:51:19 <Eddi|zuHause> we used to have native *bsd support at one time
21:52:36 <dragonhorseboy> if theres one thing I sometimes hate {I guess its not always the author's fault tho} is when the port is a crude one without taking the different os gui into consideration
21:53:24 <dragonhorseboy> at least if I recall right someone did try build a decent gui port of ottd to mobile touchscreens didn't they?
21:53:29 <dragonhorseboy> or has it been a long time I forgot details
21:53:55 <planetmaker> [23:36] dragonhorseboy many especially the ones that aren't running windows by default as well <-- why would they? Why wouldn't they run their native version of OpenTTD?
21:54:16 <confound> I thought that's what I asked
21:54:43 <planetmaker> reading the whole log, I think so, too
21:54:47 <confound> I assume the answer is that there isn't one because they're running bsd.
21:55:05 <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker well it would be native if multiplayer was working too?
21:56:14 <confound> I can't make sense of that question.
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21:57:40 <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy: there are about 3 major OS types. All three support OpenTTD natively, we even provide binaries. And then there are many more where one can compile it
21:57:52 <planetmaker> And yes, I don't understand your question.
21:58:00 <planetmaker> OpenTTD supports multiplayer natively.
21:58:13 <planetmaker> It's DOS which doesn't support TCP/IP and / or UDP. Dunno which
21:58:59 <planetmaker> or whereever it's missing its proper network protocol
21:59:02 * orudge got OpenTTD networking working on DOS :D
21:59:03 <orudge> many years ago
21:59:09 <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker dos actually does support it.. its just not included in the default disks
21:59:13 <orudge> this was before the current "official" DOS support
21:59:39 <orudge> it'd be relatively straightforward to do so now, except for the fact I can't be bothered and roboboy would probably be the only person to use it
22:00:07 <orudge> [22:33:19] <dragonhorseboy> any of you think it couldn't be too hard to write a compactibility layer for working tcp/ip in ottd-dos? considering that arachne web browser proves that it can be done
22:00:13 <orudge> dragonhorseboy: That'd be WATTCP
22:00:16 <dragonhorseboy> one of the thing I find a bit weird tho is freedos being used for a lot of commerical purposes to today
22:00:32 <dragonhorseboy> I'll never understand why they don't just switch to RTOS or something
22:00:36 <orudge> which, as I say, I did get OpenTTD to use about 4 years ago
22:00:42 <orudge> it was extremely slow
22:00:45 <orudge> almost unplayable
22:00:46 <orudge> but, it worked
22:01:30 <dragonhorseboy> if theres one thing.. I don't think I would want a mpeg2 or even mpeg4 player in dos .. that would just be too comical in a stupid sense
22:01:50 <orudge> anyway, bed time for me
22:01:51 <orudge> night
22:01:53 <dragonhorseboy> after all I don't know if dos could deal with 720i size
22:01:55 <dragonhorseboy> bye orudge
22:02:00 <planetmaker> g'night orudge
22:02:28 <orudge> [23:01:52] <dragonhorseboy> after all I don't know if dos could deal with 720i size <-- sure it can
22:02:32 <planetmaker> bed is very tempting. Good night then here, too :-)
22:02:43 <orudge> back in the day, I had DOS apps using 2048xsomething or other
22:02:46 <orudge> or some ridiculous high resolution
22:02:50 <orudge> my 15" CRT didn't like it at all, mind you
22:02:57 <orudge> but, it was certainly possible
22:03:01 <dragonhorseboy> mm I see
22:03:04 <orudge> DOS, after all, doesn't do graphics
22:03:10 <orudge> you interface with the graphics hardware directly
22:03:30 <orudge> and Allegro supported quite a variety of late 90s-era hardware
22:03:57 <orudge> as long as you have an appropriate VBE or VESA driver (or natively supported hardware), you should be OK
22:04:06 <orudge> but with modern hardware, you may have more trouble
22:04:08 <orudge> now then, really bed time
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22:39:40 <Wolf01> 'night all
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