IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-12
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00:29:17 <supermop> ok
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00:52:47 <supermop> anyone on from the west country right now?
01:04:44 <hibby> west part of which country?
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01:05:50 <supermop> england
01:06:03 <hibby> that's what I figured
01:06:17 <hibby> sadly, no, I'm in the American Midwest.
01:06:31 <hibby> Not normally there, but I'm being paid to work here, so I'm happy
01:06:42 <hibby> Scotland, normally.
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02:03:08 <supermop> drawing some georgian era offices
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05:46:18 <dihedral> good morning
05:46:28 <dihedral> i seem to not be friends with postgres :-(
05:57:27 <Terkhen> good morning
06:01:57 <peter1138> \o/ postgresql
06:08:11 <opa> postgre > oracle
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06:49:45 <MNIM> ach maak dat je opa wijs
06:51:04 <Terkhen> what?
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06:59:20 <MNIM> <opa> postgre > oracle
07:00:03 <MNIM> I answered, freely translated: "Oh, tell that story to yer grandad"
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07:13:10 <dihedral> i hate this thing!
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09:17:17 <dihedral> i have never been so unhappy with the current linux distros as currently
09:18:04 <dihedral> ubuntu: stupid politics - RedHad: kicks out mcrypt module?? - CentOS: way behind - SuSE: don't get me started ...
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09:18:44 <dihedral> arch and gentoo go down the drain anyway for production servers
09:18:53 <dihedral> leaves me with debian ... well .... great!
09:18:57 <dihedral> grrr
09:19:12 * dihedral cries
09:21:01 <peter1138> debian \o/
09:21:19 <peter1138> is and always was the best
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10:16:45 * peter1138 grumbles about .net 4's session state behaviour
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12:38:12 <__ln__> dihedral: what about Scientific Linux?
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12:51:46 <Belugas> hello
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14:07:07 <__ln__> wtf:
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14:41:50 <xdddd> hello how can I build into openttd my own city?
14:43:00 <Terkhen> xdddd:
14:43:18 <Terkhen> it is quite expensive
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14:46:26 <Yura87> 0hai
14:46:53 <Yura87> Any1 on who can confirm?
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14:50:10 <Belugas> maybe
14:50:17 <Belugas> hello frosch123
14:51:05 <frosch123> oh, hello sir belugas :)
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14:56:25 <pikka> gintlepong.
14:56:51 <Yura87> dmn, took too long, I found it already myself
14:57:24 <Yura87> One Russian site's IRC channel... members asked for confirmation of German TGRF Bug
15:02:48 <peter1138> who what where why when how
15:03:32 <frosch123> he this there because then by
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15:07:17 <Scuddles> pikka what are you doing here
15:07:50 <pikka> hello scuddles nice Singapore you have here
15:08:10 <Scuddles> is it actually
15:09:10 <pikka> what I am doing now is going to bed though
15:09:54 <pikka> as there are many singapores to see on the morrow
15:10:32 <pikka> also hello peter
15:10:45 <pikka> et al
15:11:14 <pikka> goodnight
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15:12:06 <Scuddles> look what you did you missed danmack
15:12:18 <peter1138> missed
15:12:28 <Scuddles> NOT LIKE THAT
15:15:27 <peter1138> oh
15:24:33 * DanMacK wonders what he missed
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15:26:19 <Nite> anyone fiddling with timetables?
15:26:36 <Nite> i still dont quite understand how to get them "right"
15:27:19 <Nite> my vehicles run late when they have to wait at some intersection and never catch up later
15:27:47 <Nite> releasing vehicles one by one is tedious, can it be automated in some way? (start date?)
15:28:20 <Nite> what is teh scheduled/expected switch?
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15:34:38 <Eddi|zuHause> no, sad to hear, you need to extend some wait times, otherwise they have no chance to catch up. you can set the start date, it will get effective once it arrives (not leave) at the first station again, it shows the departure time with or without taking the current lateness into account
15:38:55 <Nite> i did it the other way - i extended the travel time by roughly one third - so now when they come early they wait longer
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15:47:35 <supermop> hello
15:50:40 <Nite> my conclusion again is: "timetables are no timetables"
15:50:55 <Nite> in no way you can set a specific dat to arrive or depart ...
15:51:29 <supermop> use departure boards + 24hr clock by hhts
15:51:45 <supermop> works incredibly well for what it sets out to do
15:51:45 <Nite> ?
15:51:56 <Nite> is it a patch?
15:52:05 <Chris_Booth> yes
15:52:11 <Nite> sounds cool
15:53:23 <Nite> (timetables are the only added feature i woudl throw out as whole, seriously does anybody use them in a way that makes sense?)
15:54:13 <Nite> (i take the first part back and fiddle some more)
15:54:49 <supermop> i use them alot with the above patch
15:55:24 <Nite> can i celar the whole timetable somehow?
15:55:29 <Nite> "clear"
15:56:45 <Chris_Booth> Nite: I use them alot
15:57:01 <Chris_Booth> with FIRS for example I use them to make sure I drop supply every month
15:57:02 <Eddi|zuHause> there was, but might be one of the patches
15:58:47 <supermop> i drew a georgian building to replace a statue, eddie
15:58:59 <supermop> not sure if it makes any sense
15:59:36 <supermop> but it is of a style that pass as appropriate from 1490 - 1860 with a bit of imagination
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16:20:15 <Nite> the problem with exact timetables is that you cannot divide 31
16:20:37 * Hyronymus begs to disagree
16:20:55 <supermop> it could look palladian, elizabethan, neoclassican, georgian, maybe even national romantic
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16:21:31 <LordAro> evenings
16:21:49 <Nite> but still i can do a timetable that lasts exactly 31 days or a multiple of it
16:21:51 <Hyronymus> hi LordAro
16:21:59 <Nite> its forming togehter
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16:37:05 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22661 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix (r22659): Silence a gcc warning.
16:37:55 <LordAro> hmm... why is mediawiki (on so out of date?
16:38:57 <Eddi|zuHause> because nobody bothered to update?
16:39:39 <__ln__> nobody has been lazy
16:41:35 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- like this?
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16:56:29 <SpComb> pong
16:56:36 <LordAro> ping
16:57:24 <LordAro> Eddi: maybe someone should? i personally have had a couple of complaints :) (yes, i know you can't do anything about it)
16:58:59 <LordAro> hai Alberth :)
16:59:13 <Alberth> hai LordAro :)
16:59:20 <Alberth> how did the exams go?
16:59:28 <LordAro> not too bad...
16:59:32 <LordAro> ..i hope :)
16:59:51 <LordAro> results on 25th august, so i'll see soon
17:00:07 <Alberth> not much you can do about it any more :)
17:01:45 <LordAro> my thoughts precisely
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17:06:34 <LordAro> Alberth: i'm still stuck on newgrf readme's btw :(
17:06:55 <Alberth> :(
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17:08:44 <LordAro> you want a go?
17:09:22 <LordAro> i think all i need is a function (or whatever) that returns a usable char (or whatever) for the gui
17:09:34 <LordAro> can you do that? pleeeeaseee? :P
17:09:48 <Alberth> the big blob of text did not work?
17:10:23 <Alberth> (as in, I don't exactly understand what you need)
17:11:44 <Alberth> loading from a file just gives you the same blob of text
17:12:22 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22662 /trunk/src/ship_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r22639)[FS#4683]: Ships can also travel on certain rail tiles.
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17:17:02 <LordAro> Alberth: that's what i want :) all i've got (that works) at the moment is a bool function that returns whether the newgrf has a readme or not
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17:18:05 <LordAro> openttdcoop seems to be having issues...
17:19:43 <Alberth> nah :)
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17:20:18 <Alberth> <-- some text, a getcharacter function, and a untested main() test/demo function.
17:21:20 <Alberth> hmm, at least it needs #include <stdio.h> :)
17:22:40 <Ammler> sorry for the join/part spam :-P
17:23:13 <Ammler> join/part/rename*
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17:27:25 <LordAro> Alberth: ok, thanbks, but i don't understand how to get the 'static const char *text' in the first place
17:28:15 <Alberth> you don't.
17:28:40 <Alberth> this is sufficient as source for getting stuff displayed at a gui
17:30:20 <LordAro> ? i mean in ottd..
17:31:49 <Alberth> You use FioFOpenFileTar() to get a FILE * handle, and size, then malloc enough space, and read the data with fread. then fclose() the FILE *.
17:32:23 <Alberth> but the malloc gives you also a char *, just like the 'text' you have in that sample code
17:32:50 <LordAro> perfect :)
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17:32:59 * LordAro saves a log of this channel
17:33:21 <Alberth> so if you can display the text in 'text', you can also display ASCII loaded from a README
17:33:42 <Alberth> obviously, not all authors will use ASCII though :p
17:34:45 <Alberth> some will make a Windows text file, or use some unicode encoding
17:34:55 <Rubidium> lies... ASCII or UTF8 ;)
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17:35:18 <Alberth> but display of plain ASCII is sufficient challenge for now :)
17:35:25 <Alberth> Hi Rubidium!
17:36:05 <Alberth> I hope not all ASCII, no idea how to display STX :D
17:36:30 <Alberth> or the more useful CLS :)
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17:37:28 <Alberth> finished cooking?
17:39:25 <Hyronymus> and dining
17:39:33 <Hyronymus> twas lovely
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17:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r22663 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: croatian - 5 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 changes by habell
17:45:36 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 5 changes by glx
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: italian - 6 changes by lorenzodv
17:45:37 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 6 changes by Lone_Wolf
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17:54:32 <LordAro> Terkhen: qwiimote looks interesting ;)
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17:56:01 <Terkhen> thank you :)
17:56:14 <Terkhen> it is part of my final year project, due this friday :P
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18:01:12 <LordAro> sounds fun
18:01:27 <LordAro> (no sarcasm intended :) )
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18:03:00 <Terkhen> it is kind of boring, I'm using the wiimote to store the orientation of a 3D scanner so you can use that information later to place each mesh in its correct place automatically
18:03:13 <Terkhen> it had interesting problems to solve, though
18:05:58 <LordAro> interesting == hard ?
18:06:31 <Terkhen> both, yes :P
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18:08:37 <Alberth> my hard problems tend to end up near 'unsolvable' :(
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18:09:49 <Terkhen> yes, truly hard problems move from "interesting" to "frustrating" quickly
18:10:31 <LordAro> p = np :)
18:11:02 <Alberth> that is beyond unsolvable :)
18:11:35 <Alberth> stuff like deducing types in compilers
18:11:36 <frosch123> my lecturer used to say "you can become famous with that"
18:11:53 <Rubidium> what? It has been proven that you can't proof or disproof p = np?
18:12:07 <Terkhen> mine said "there is a million dollars waiting for you if you solve this"
18:12:12 <Alberth> frosch123: I have no doubt, you just have to either proof or disprove it :p
18:12:44 <Alberth> Rubidium: that would be an interesting proof :)
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18:16:15 <andythenorth> hola
18:16:22 <andythenorth> frosch123: I like newgrf utopia
18:16:47 <frosch123> that's the main point of an utopia, isn't it? :p
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18:18:22 <andythenorth> original utopia was conceived as a dystopia iirc
18:18:29 * andythenorth wiki
18:19:22 <frosch123> apparently there were no newgrfs back then :p
18:20:59 <hibby> hahah
18:21:14 <LordAro> heh, n = np is an irrational proof :)
18:21:48 <frosch123> LordAro: you should study the axiom of choice
18:21:54 <LordAro> (yes, it took me that long [and wikipedia] to remeber the word 'irrational' ^^ )
18:22:03 * LordAro googles axiom
18:22:51 <LordAro> Alberth: your openttdcoop paste is missing a "
18:22:52 <LordAro> :P
18:23:21 <andythenorth> frosch123: we probably still need to be backwards compatible with UtopiaPatch
18:23:33 <andythenorth> As that is the reference spec
18:23:55 <andythenorth> OpenUtopia is just an (partially incorrect) implementation
18:23:57 <Alberth> LordAro: could be, I didn't test it
18:24:24 <LordAro> it works apart from that though ;)
18:24:31 * LordAro ponders
18:25:13 <Alberth> I may hope so after programming for 30 or so years :)
18:27:56 <LordAro> and a phd (?)
18:28:01 <andythenorth> how long have I been programming?
18:28:21 <frosch123> andythenorth: do you consider ottd's gameworld an utopia?
18:28:41 <andythenorth> does 'ch. "chuckie egg" count as programming?
18:28:43 <frosch123> are you a traindriver, or a passenger?
18:30:14 <Alberth> LordAro: you do what you like to do, and some people want to give you a degree for it :p
18:30:33 <LordAro> very nice of them
18:30:57 <andythenorth> I did that on my degree
18:31:01 <andythenorth> second time round :P
18:33:29 <peter1138> no it doesn't :S
18:34:03 * LordAro -> out (apologies andythenorth for copying you :) )
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18:40:59 <andythenorth> does '10 print "rude words" 20 goto 10' count as programming?
18:42:03 * Alberth ponders whether he ever typed line numbers in BASIC :)
18:42:40 <Alberth> I did, most likely :)
18:42:54 <andythenorth> taught me defensive programming at a very early age :P
18:43:03 <andythenorth> I think my love of very long variable and function names may be somehow related
18:43:10 <andythenorth> means nfo-without renum was like coming home
18:43:25 <andythenorth> nfo-with-renum was better however
18:43:26 <Alberth> it counts as programming imho, in particular if you also got it to stop without switching off the machine :)
18:43:48 * andythenorth considers playing the game
18:43:55 <frosch123> i think i once run out of numbers, and then added a goto to somewhere else and jumped back later on :p
18:44:01 * LordAro isn't going out, actually
18:44:06 <andythenorth> yesterday trying to play the game was just 20 mins of annoying
18:44:45 <LordAro> hmm, is the auto-nightly thing fixed yet?
18:45:09 <Zuu> LordAro: OpenTTD Auto Update?
18:45:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: you mean like typing ^C?
18:45:36 <frosch123> LordAro:
18:45:41 <Alberth> last sunday I played the game of getting to understand the structure of binary data from half-finished reverse engineered descriptions, it was quite fun :)
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18:46:01 <LordAro> Zuu: afraid not, the openttd (ex-)build-bot thing
18:46:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that was one of the earliest key combinations i learned :p
18:46:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: i played that game a few month ago
18:46:29 <Alberth> I don't remember what it was at my machine, I think ESC :)
18:46:35 <Eddi|zuHause> it gets fun when you actually succeed ;)
18:46:44 <LordAro> frosch123: i agree, but what brought that up?
18:46:55 <frosch123> you not wanting to go out
18:47:12 * LordAro just lost The Game
18:47:27 <LordAro> frosch123: i thought so, just clarifying :)
18:47:38 <andythenorth> the game isn't valid on irc
18:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i need a wider screen...
18:48:00 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: nah, just use smaller letters
18:48:01 <andythenorth> suggestion: new button "random grfs"
18:48:03 <andythenorth> :P
18:48:41 <LordAro> andythenorth: really? /me tries facebook :)
18:48:50 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: get some old display, and convince your cats that it is the nicer one to sit in front of
18:48:57 <Alberth> it mostly leads to non-playable games, I guess :)
18:49:11 <Alberth> or lie on top of :)
18:49:14 <LordAro> andythenorth: thats very similar to 'playlists' (i cant remember the correct word atm)
18:50:06 <Zuu> LordAro: Good, then it's not a problem for me to solve ;-)
18:50:25 <frosch123> Alberth: maybe it could result in deleting all those crappy grfs you do not want to play with :p
18:50:27 <andythenorth> "A fatal newgrf error has occurred"
18:50:27 <andythenorth> ffs
18:50:54 <andythenorth> I'm bored of playing "which newgrfs work" :P
18:51:06 <andythenorth> I have been trying to solve that by providing newgrfs that work
18:51:12 <Alberth> frosch123: good idea. To be on the safe side, let's remove all of them :)
18:51:12 <andythenorth> but I only have so much time :(
18:51:28 <LordAro> Alberth: *like*
18:51:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: just play plain trunk
18:51:42 <Alberth> without any newgrfs
18:51:46 <andythenorth> meh
18:52:05 <frosch123> Alberth: you mean "a good game is not a good game if there is nothing more to add, but nothing more to remove"?
18:52:13 <Alberth> LordAro: find / -name "*.grf" -exec rm "{}" ";"
18:52:21 <andythenorth> if I announce putting FISH on hold, then draw for it, do I look like a lose?
18:52:22 <andythenorth> r
18:53:06 <Alberth> frosch123: removing is much harder than adding
18:53:08 <frosch123> andythenorth: register a second nick
18:53:13 <andythenorth> he
18:53:15 <andythenorth> sock puppet
18:53:26 <andythenorth> sock puppet can deal with the feedback :P
18:53:41 <andythenorth> feedback on quality of drawing is useful
18:53:44 <Alberth> fred may be able to help :)
18:53:47 <andythenorth> feedback on gameplay is useful
18:54:03 <andythenorth> feedback on 'this is unrealistic' is not useful
18:54:18 <andythenorth> when the cause of 'unrealistic' is 'this is how ottd works' it's annoying
18:54:36 <andythenorth> and when I'm told I'm being lazy and childish I just want to stop hanging out around ottd :P
18:54:49 * andythenorth plays the lovely game
18:55:33 <Alberth> andythenorth: such cheap words when one does not come up with a better alternative, imho
18:55:48 <andythenorth> stumbled at the first hurdle so far
18:55:51 <andythenorth> "omg it's not png"
18:55:58 <andythenorth> we'll see
18:59:59 <LordAro> whats the hg command to remove all un-commited files (the '?' files)
19:00:00 <LordAro> ?
19:00:54 <frosch123> i think there is only one to add all ?
19:01:09 <frosch123> hhmm, though maybe cleanup?
19:01:26 <andythenorth> hg purge
19:01:31 <andythenorth> if you enable the extension
19:01:35 <andythenorth> useful but dangerous :P
19:01:39 <LordAro> thanks andy
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19:02:20 <LordAro> except i just did hg diff when i have git style diffs turned on and i added lots of binary files -_-
19:03:46 <andythenorth> hmm
19:03:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what's an .xcf file for?
19:03:53 <andythenorth> TAI is probably going to be quite hard
19:04:00 <andythenorth> with yacd
19:04:09 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: gimp
19:04:20 <andythenorth> I have built very expensive train and will probably lose soon :P
19:04:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yes, but why use that over a .png?
19:04:58 <Alberth> multi-layer source file ?
19:06:05 <frosch123> yup
19:08:42 * LordAro gave up and deleted the checkout
19:13:29 * LordAro is actually going out... :rolleyes:
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19:24:13 <Hellaciouss> hey guys
19:24:32 <Hellaciouss> why is it I am unable to build any sort of station before 1920ish in single player mode?
19:25:34 <Hellaciouss> i am unable to build any type of road station before 1930
19:26:36 <Hellaciouss> and no rail stations before 1925
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19:26:58 <Hellaciouss> which basically means I can't start any single player game before 1925 or I can't actually build anything
19:28:39 <frosch123> proably because you have not activated any newgrf which supplies vehicles in those early years
19:28:56 <frosch123> the default vehicle only start 1930-1950
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19:29:27 <Hellaciouss> how do i activate those?
19:29:53 <frosch123>
19:33:19 *** Zuu has left #openttd
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19:33:31 <Hellaciouss> know the name of the grf that lets you start with them earlier?
19:34:00 <frosch123> try egrtv for road vehicles
19:34:02 <frosch123> fish for ships
19:34:13 <frosch123> hmm, maybe nars 2 for trains
19:34:19 <frosch123> but there are many trainsets
19:34:30 <frosch123> and av8 for aircraft
19:35:01 <frosch123> just do not pick too much :)
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20:09:56 <frosch123> night
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20:14:51 <asdasdf> how do i buy planes
20:15:13 <asdasdf> asdasd
20:15:25 <asdasdf> how do i buye planes in ttd
20:18:05 <asdasdf> fffff
20:18:08 <asdasdf> cmon someone tell me
20:18:17 <opa> click the nagar
20:18:18 <V453000> lol
20:18:21 <opa> hangar
20:18:23 <fjb> Just click the hangar.
20:18:27 <asdasdf> what hangar
20:18:31 <asdasdf> i clicked my airport
20:18:34 <asdasdf> there is no option
20:18:39 <fjb> And please be patient when asking here.
20:18:42 <V453000> go play some other game
20:18:46 <asdasdf> rude
20:18:55 <asdasdf> wheres the hangar
20:19:02 <fjb> At the airport.
20:19:03 <V453000> under water
20:19:03 <asdasdf> ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
20:19:08 <asdasdf> well thats gaye
20:19:13 <asdasdf> whoever thought not to highlight it
20:19:15 <asdasdf> or some shite
20:19:18 <asdasdf> fuck off v453000
20:19:23 <V453000> thanks
20:19:33 <fjb> Please watch your language.
20:19:52 <fjb> And go read the manual.
20:19:58 <asdasdf> i didnt find any
20:20:02 <asdasdf> on the site
20:20:03 <asdasdf> ok
20:20:05 <V453000> google is your friend
20:20:06 <asdasdf> i looked for 15 seconds
20:20:18 <asdasdf> i googled "how to buy planes in transport tycoon"
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20:20:33 <V453000> that was ... a wonderful person :D
20:20:39 <fjb> 15 Seconds? Wow.
20:20:58 <V453000> I think you should make the installation of openttd more idiot-proof
20:21:10 <V453000> so that people like this dont get the opportunity to play it
20:21:21 <V453000> :d
20:22:52 <fjb> It is open for everybody. But with his impatience and uncreativity he will not have fun anyway.
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20:29:47 <V453000> :P
20:29:49 <V453000> but what if he does :D
20:31:49 <Rubidium> it used to be idiot proof, until some idiot made a Windows installer and some other idiots added it to the repositories of several distributions
20:33:11 <V453000> :DDD
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21:00:39 <Terkhen> good night
21:02:31 <__ln__> average night
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21:18:37 <LordAro> back
21:18:43 <LordAro> who's still here?
21:21:49 <__ln__> everyone except you and me appear to be still
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21:22:41 <Hellaciouss> <Hellaciouss> anyone know of a good guide for placing track signals?
21:22:41 <Hellaciouss> <Hellaciouss> apparently i suck at it cause my trains get stuck/crash :D
21:23:16 <opa>
21:23:18 <opa> this?
21:23:32 <__ln__> trains never crash unless you order them to drive against a red signal
21:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause> actually, they might do in some corner cases when mixing path and block signals
21:24:40 <V453000> ^
21:25:57 <Hellaciouss> oh my trains crash lol
21:26:02 <Hellaciouss> and my planes crash
21:26:04 <Hellaciouss> it sucks :(
21:29:32 <V453000> plane crashes can be turned off
21:29:48 <V453000> not sure if you mess up train breakdowns and crashes, but breakdowns can be turned off too
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21:33:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i think we will get evil "how can i do that" questions in the next 5+ years:
21:34:22 <LordAro> how can you do that? or is it a mockup?
21:34:58 <Eddi|zuHause> those are "objects", i.e. you can't build on the platforms
21:35:13 <LordAro> that makes sense
21:35:27 <LordAro> is there a way to import a whole hg mq patch queue? not just 1 patch at a time?
21:36:06 <Eddi|zuHause> copy the patches to the .hg dir?
21:36:28 <LordAro> guess so
21:40:09 <LordAro> night all
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22:24:39 <Holborn> hi ... I just download the game .. :-) my question is if I can join a multiplayer server only to be a spectator? .. I think I need a lot of practice before play ... but I want to see .. is that possible?
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22:27:05 <Rubidium> yes, you can join as spectator
22:27:11 <Holborn> oh thanks :-)
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22:51:41 <Gizmokid2005> Is there any way to fast forward time with either a listen or dedicated server?
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23:10:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fast forward only works in single player
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