IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-07-09
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00:00:05 *** Hellaciouss has joined #openttd
00:00:59 <Hellaciouss> sorry for this newb question but, how do I get sawmills/factories/etc to actually produce goods? For the saw mill I have a depo next to it and dropping off wood but it won't produce anything with the wood
00:02:25 <Zuu> Hellaciouss: Do you look in the industry window or the station window?
00:02:47 <Zuu> Also, you don't drop off wood in a depot, but at a station.
00:03:24 <Hellaciouss> loading bay isn't the same?
00:03:37 <Zuu> a loading bay is a station
00:04:14 <Zuu> a depot is not a station, and you wrote "depo" which to me looks closer to "depot" than "loading bay"
00:04:32 <Hellaciouss> ok, im dropping wood off at a loading bay, but saw mill is not using it
00:04:50 <Zuu> Is the station close enough?
00:05:18 <Zuu> In which window do you see that it "does not use it"?
00:05:46 <Hellaciouss> where it says it requires wood and production last month 0 crates of goods
00:06:36 <Zuu> Does the wood cargo pile up at the station?
00:06:52 <Hellaciouss> and slowly disappears
00:07:08 <Zuu> Do you use orders that force unloading?
00:07:40 <caracal> does the factory require anything in addition to wood?
00:07:51 <caracal> like rubber, copper ore, etc?
00:07:59 <Zuu> Not if no NewGRFs are used.
00:08:02 <Hellaciouss> no, just says wood, i will take a screen shot
00:08:36 <Zuu> But if you use a NewGRF it can change it so that you need to fullfill any condition you might (and might not) imagne.
00:10:10 <Eddi|zuHause> do not use "transfer" orders
00:10:12 <Zuu> Don't use Transfer and leave empty orders.
00:10:48 <Zuu> The transfer orders are used when you want to transfer cargo from one vehicle to another.
00:11:22 <Zuu> The transfer order tells the vehicle to explicitly not to deliver the cargo to any industry, so that it can be picked up by another vehicle.
00:13:52 <Hellaciouss> ah ok, giving them orders like that is what I was doing wrong
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05:59:47 <andythenorth> ignore the pink dots
06:00:22 <andythenorth> building rivers that can flow perpendicular to slopes is silly
06:00:33 <andythenorth> maybe rivers should have directed flow
06:00:53 <andythenorth> bit mask identifying which corner the flow comes from?
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07:31:16 <andythenorth> being facetious :P
07:41:26 <andythenorth> most shores done
07:41:33 <andythenorth> those marked with coloured dots are not valid imo
07:42:00 <andythenorth> there is also a clipping problem with some rapids that I need to look into
07:47:57 <andythenorth> hello planetmaker
07:48:54 <planetmaker> btw, andythenorth the "unneeded" corners in the NE of your setup: they only happen as you have a river tile at sea level there afaik
07:50:22 <andythenorth> rivers at sea level is a silly case
07:50:27 <andythenorth> I'm not drawing graphics for it
07:50:36 * andythenorth is grumpy about rivers - does it show?
07:54:59 <andythenorth> the 'river going along a hillside' case is more dumb
07:57:19 <planetmaker> rivers at sea levels IMHO need not a special graphics case but some code modification.
07:57:42 <planetmaker> All needed sprites are there, but the sprite logic fails in this case
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09:12:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: could you build water_features grf and give me your opinion on temperate sprites?
09:12:26 <andythenorth> if you're busy - nvm
09:19:27 <planetmaker> he... andythenorth you should add a license.txt - install fails without ;-)
09:20:01 <planetmaker> hm... and changelog. Bad thing
09:20:09 <planetmaker> it shouldn't fail on it
09:20:31 <andythenorth> maybe I didn't hg add them
09:21:20 <andythenorth> they're hg tracked locally I think, but not in the repo
09:22:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: fixed
09:22:22 <andythenorth> they were in the hgignore. no idea why
09:22:43 <andythenorth> I must have copied them in from somewhere
09:22:53 <planetmaker> they're in there twice even
09:23:01 <andythenorth> that means one of my other grfs doesn't have those files :o
09:24:07 <andythenorth> anyway - solved :)
09:30:17 <planetmaker> not all sprites are without funky colours, right?
09:31:10 <andythenorth> a bunch of sprites have coloured dots
09:31:21 <andythenorth> to indicate that they shouldn't exist in a sane world :P
09:32:09 <planetmaker> well... sane world - why not?
09:32:25 <planetmaker> could be a lake at sea level. They do exist
09:32:51 <andythenorth> well maybe those sea-level ones are valid
09:32:56 <andythenorth> although I think it's stupid and pointless
09:33:04 <andythenorth> and is a griefing opportunity
09:33:16 <andythenorth> (assuming ships that have different speeds for canal / sea)
09:33:26 <planetmaker> is there a reason to use other sprites at sea level than other heights?
09:33:51 <andythenorth> rivers seem ill-thought out to me
09:34:49 <planetmaker> there's two aspects: graphics and game-incorporation / effect
09:34:59 <planetmaker> wrt graphics they're IMHO quite good
09:35:21 <andythenorth> they seem to fit the alternative water nicely :)
09:35:33 <andythenorth> and the opengfx temperate tiles
09:39:07 <andythenorth> my problems with rivers:
09:39:16 <andythenorth> - rivers can be built at sea
09:39:25 <andythenorth> - rivers can be built perpendicular to hillsides
09:39:40 <andythenorth> - player can demolish a river tile in game, leaving two halves of unconnected river
09:40:12 <andythenorth> - rivers with right angles don't look good, half-tiles are needed for – and |
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09:47:21 <planetmaker> perpendicular to hill sides is not wrong
09:47:30 <Alberth> we'll have to make a flood disaster :)
09:47:32 <planetmaker> a tile is 600km after all ;-)
09:49:04 <Alberth> 600km? Holland would be just one tile :D
09:50:30 <andythenorth> how is it not wrong? :)
09:50:39 <planetmaker> how is it wrong, andythenorth ?
09:51:55 <andythenorth> lets do an experiment
09:52:01 <andythenorth> take a bowl from the kitchen
09:52:19 <andythenorth> now tilt bowl to 30' angle - for added excitement, do this above your laptop
09:52:35 <andythenorth> report results here...
09:52:52 <__ln__> "Voor het vervoer gelden de vervoervoorwaarden."
09:53:14 <planetmaker> andythenorth: but landscape is not a bowel
09:55:12 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I'm not going to argue from reality too much :)
09:55:23 <andythenorth> I just find lakes on 30' slopes odd
09:55:40 <andythenorth> we have 'realistic' physics for some things, but 100% magic water
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09:56:25 <andythenorth> if others like the feature....fine
09:57:03 <andythenorth> the slope on the surface of that lake will be quite small
09:59:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth: that's not a problem with the sprites but of the game engine. But currently it can only come into play by explicit player demand
09:59:08 <andythenorth> why don't those lakes run into the sea?
09:59:09 <planetmaker> So there's no issue either
10:02:13 <andythenorth> planetmaker: yes it's an issue of the game engine ;)
10:02:24 <andythenorth> my critique was aimed in that direction
10:02:33 <planetmaker> yes. But good existing sprites can be motivation ;-)
10:02:52 <andythenorth> I'm not inclined to finish drawing sprites that I don't think should ever be seen :)
10:02:57 <andythenorth> I can remove the dots
10:03:22 <andythenorth> we assume all such slopes being / end in a spring or sinkhole
10:03:34 <andythenorth> so I draw 'water disappearing underground' sprites
10:06:35 <andythenorth> but also your ships would travel through the sink hole?
10:08:52 <Alberth> they stay afloat, turning in circles above the hole forever :p
10:10:35 <andythenorth> is that feature in trunk? :P
10:11:29 <planetmaker> Those sprites would also be seen ;-)
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13:45:46 <Alberth> I'd settle for just a step in the right direction already :)
13:47:46 <andythenorth> it's a Hard Problem
13:48:08 <andythenorth> groups or consists alone would be solvable
13:48:16 <andythenorth> but trying to do them both well together....Hard
13:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> do consists, and treat groups like database queries
14:01:40 <Alberth> imho 'do consists' starts with creating a Consist struct in the program first, which is quite non-trivial :(
14:06:36 <Alberth> my attempts broke on vehicle shuffling during replace/refit/clone/etc
14:07:49 <Alberth> If I want to do it, I'll probably have to take the Vehicle pool down, which means killing a large part of the program :p
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14:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it probably needs three categories: "consists" (virtual arrangements of vehicles), "instances" (actual copies or clones of a consist) and "vehicles" (single parts of a consist or instance)
14:17:51 <Eddi|zuHause> things like cached speed limits etc that are currently only valid for front engines would become part of the instance
14:23:32 <Alberth> in your terms, I was making an Instance class, without bothering about consists, just to move such data like cached speed limits to Instance
14:24:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i think that doesn't go far enough
14:24:26 <Alberth> I know, but it is a first step, and that already failed
14:26:14 <Alberth> although you may not need consists, you could also make a 'real' copy and not use it anywhere
14:26:35 <Alberth> but that kind of stuff was already too far for me :)
14:27:11 <Alberth> ha, openttd compiles again :p
14:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that reminds me i needed to update nml
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15:55:31 <bobgeldof> next time won't you sing with me?
16:06:55 <murr4y> '[' wasn't a part of the alphabet last time i checked
16:13:25 <Eddi|zuHause> your smilies are from the picasso-edition of the internet guide?
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18:11:07 <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r22644 /trunk/src/saveload/afterload.cpp: -Codechange: Use IsShipDepotTile() instead of single water- and depottests. (adf88)
18:30:44 <Eddi|zuHause> ccfreak2k: how is that helping? ;)
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21:17:42 <MNIM> Eeeek, a UFO destroyed my beautiful intersection
21:19:10 <Terkhen> they travelled many light years just for that, let them have their fun
21:23:47 <Terkhen> it's a good solution to Fermi's paradox too: aliens are too busy destroying computer game trains
21:32:20 <__ln__> is Frankfurt an der Oder a nice place?
21:32:57 <frosch123> you might be able to see some newer gikes
21:35:00 <Eddi|zuHause> it was kind of a neglected place when i was there ~12 years ago
21:35:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but that is probably common with lots of minor east german cities
21:37:04 <__ln__> so if i want to see a not-so-big east german city, that should be ok
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