IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-06-11
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00:20:30 <Bilge> Autorenew failed on vehicle X... vehicle can't go to all stations
00:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> articulated busses cannot use dead-end bus stops
00:25:08 <Eddi|zuHause> would fit the sc4 "generating world" texts: "articulating busses"
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06:28:01 <andythenorth> hello planetmaker
06:28:16 <planetmaker> ho andythenorth, hail to the 2k-man ;-)
06:31:24 <Prof_Frink> Article in my RSS reader: "Knighthood for transport tycoon"
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06:36:05 <andythenorth> concrete tiles used in FIRS & CHIPS look better with gridlines
06:36:13 <andythenorth> but probably no-one else will agree :P
06:37:11 <Prof_Frink> Well, if other people want non-gridlined concrete, they can draw it themselves, can't they?
06:38:01 <andythenorth> with new tile layouts, they could be switched on or off
06:38:16 <planetmaker> though I've not made up my thought on whether to draw them there, too. I guess I should
06:38:22 <andythenorth> it's just an extra ground sprite, or an alternative graphic
06:38:39 <planetmaker> as said, don't bother on the newgrf side ;-)
06:38:51 <planetmaker> it's supposed to be a GUI option
06:39:47 <andythenorth> I think there's another way to solve the problem I have, without touching grid
06:39:50 <andythenorth> probably with fences
06:39:55 <planetmaker> of course you can...
06:40:12 <planetmaker> fences around some industries would make them look nicer
06:40:31 <andythenorth> most original industries don't show grif
06:40:33 <planetmaker> especially where otherwise a concrete ground just (does not) fade into normal grass ground
06:44:26 <planetmaker> maybe you could give me feedback on how such gridswitch works for you?
06:46:07 <andythenorth> planetmaker: I can't test it this morning, but maybe later today
06:55:27 <planetmaker> :-) I still plan to change the behaviour of how the buttons work in the transparency GUI
06:55:46 <planetmaker> that's currently not as intuitive as it could be
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07:59:17 <planetmaker> andythenorth: what's the link to your "best practises with NewGRF programming" page?
08:03:01 <andythenorth> we should finish that :)
08:06:24 <andythenorth> what would a var 67 / 68 distance check to nearest industry of type 'this' return?
08:06:51 <andythenorth> for an industry that is not yet built...
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08:09:44 <planetmaker> hm, nice illustration of the light direction
08:17:23 <andythenorth> how do I set bit 8 for var 67?
08:18:08 <Alberth> oh bit 8, that's 512. sorry
08:18:42 * Alberth should not do calculations today :p
08:19:02 <andythenorth> so the parameter is the industry ID already
08:19:04 <Rubidium> actually... it depends...
08:20:28 <Rubidium> there it's |256 (dec) or | 100 (hex)
08:20:41 <andythenorth> so I need to add that to the industry ID?
08:21:37 <andythenorth> parameter is a byte?
08:22:32 <Alberth> then you don't have bit 8 (only bits 0 to 7)
08:22:35 <Rubidium> var67 doesn't use that bit
08:22:47 <Rubidium> only var68 has that bit, in register 101
08:25:19 <andythenorth> that makes sense
08:25:24 <andythenorth> maybe I should update the docs a bit
08:25:51 <andythenorth> so push 100h into register 101?
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08:55:48 <andythenorth> if I'm using type 85, what shift do I need to get cc from rrccdddd
08:55:58 <andythenorth> with mask \wx00FF
08:56:59 <Alberth> 4 bit shift is either x >> 4 or x / 16
08:57:54 <Alberth> and after the shift, cc is at bit 0 and 1 (ie 2**0 + 2**1 = 1 + 2 == 3), so and with 3 then
08:58:40 * andythenorth might be glad of nml after all
08:58:40 <Alberth> or do you want to and before?
08:58:53 <andythenorth> every time I learn this, I forget it again within a few weeks :(
09:00:05 <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: those are nibbles, not bits
09:00:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> so shift 16 and mask FF
09:00:37 <Alberth> oh, that changes the story considerably
09:01:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> but then you should need only type 81
09:01:30 <andythenorth> I need to store 100h to a register
09:01:38 <andythenorth> which suggest using type 85
09:01:46 <andythenorth> it's all in one varaction 2
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09:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> something is wrong with the clock synchronization
09:03:40 <andythenorth> what it should do is prevent building if industry count >0
09:04:00 <andythenorth> result is currently always 0
09:04:08 <andythenorth> so my var check is all wrong
09:08:59 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, this is an evil construct i have not seen before ;)
09:10:19 <Eddi|zuHause> have you tried without the register magic yet?
09:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> (i presume that would check the entire map)
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09:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> relevant for such stuff is always the location of the action 3
09:36:32 <Eddi|zuHause> you use this variable because you want to avoid having the action 3 in this set
09:40:41 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... how does one make a "mountain ring race" in Mecklenburg?
09:42:19 <Alberth> erect a mountain, and race around it?
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09:44:58 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently they do that since the 1920s
09:45:27 <andythenorth> the var 68 issue remains unsolved :P
09:45:34 <andythenorth> I'll figure it out later I guess
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09:48:20 <Alberth> racing over it is another fine option :p
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10:42:52 <Eddi|zuHause> "Duke Nukem Forever: Balls of Steel edition might be delayed due to production errors"
10:51:22 <Bilge> No rude words in this channel please we are all pasty nerds who got bullied in high school with a faux superirity complex equal to our sensitivity
10:51:42 <Bilge> Words like balls offend me
10:54:34 <Rubidium> then how can you be a nerd? If you get offended by things such as "ball grid array"
10:57:09 <Terkhen> I think he's trying to imply a different thing :P
10:57:31 <Rubidium> but don't BGAs use balls of stell as well?
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11:01:05 <SigHunter> i use ecs agricultural vector and i cant get more oilseeds from fruitplant, why is that? they just produce once a year somehundred tons and thats it
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11:02:26 <Rubidium> I guess it's ECS trying to model the real world... and there you have only a few harvests, not the whole year around
11:02:42 <Rubidium> although... with all those greenhouses that isn't quite true for all crops anymore
11:05:22 <SigHunter> i read this wiki and its quite badly written ;/
11:05:40 <SigHunter> still somehow i cant get the production running
11:06:07 <Alberth> If the fruit plantation does not have enough fertilizer waiting (amount of waiting fertilizer is less than value represented in the table), it runs only every six production cycle of 32 in a row. <-- explains your problem, I think
11:06:13 <SigHunter> i have two frutiplants with about 700tons fertilizer waiting, doesnt seem production rises from year to year
11:07:11 <Alberth> ok, you should ask in the forum then, perhaps it is a bug
11:07:24 <SigHunter> i rather think im missing something
11:07:46 <SigHunter> im transporting everything that is produced as soon as it produces this time of the year
11:07:54 <SigHunter> rating of the station for oilseeds is 91%
11:08:02 <SigHunter> do i need to transport fruits too, maybe?
11:09:04 <Alberth> no idea, I never play ECS, too complicated.
11:09:20 <Alberth> but it never hurts to try it in the game, save a copy, then try.
11:09:56 <SigHunter> well i realy like ecs, its my first game but its really challenging and i dont get too rich too fast
11:10:00 <Alberth> Bilge: posting random youtube urls is not very useful
11:10:40 <George> SigHunter: Wiki: Production of the tile depending on the current week of the year is represented in the table.
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11:16:20 <Bilge> I suppose you play games for productivity purposes
11:17:27 <SigHunter> what do you mean by that
11:19:02 <Terkhen> if fun was undefined no one would play :)
11:19:19 * planetmaker provides fun-mod grf :-P
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12:32:37 <Bilge> What do you do when OTTD stops being fun
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12:59:39 <planetmaker> though in retroperspective, I think Alberth is quite right with that statement ;-) That's how it all started :-P
13:01:00 <Alberth> note that 'dev' is meant quite general here, NewGRF development is also dev :)
13:09:41 <planetmaker> of course. As is patch (pack) writer
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13:20:48 <Eddi|zuHause> "IKEA subject to bombing series. In the past few weeks small bombs exploded in Gent (Belgium), Lille (France) and Eindhoven (The Netherlands). Now there also was an explosion in IKEA Dresden causing damage and two lightly injured people."
13:30:36 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: are you writing that, or did you install some stupid software?
13:30:52 <Eddi|zuHause> why would i install stupid software?
13:31:20 <frosch123> ok, did you write that, or did you install some software doing that?
13:31:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i did write that ;)
13:32:17 * fjb should closely watch the Swedish Houses Ikea.
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13:33:29 <fjb> OpenTTD on a smartphone is not playable. Maybe on a tablett.
13:34:44 * Eddi|zuHause can't imagine touchscreens being accurate enough
13:38:24 <fjb> That was the problem on the phone. But the display is very small compared to a desktop monitor.
13:40:10 <fjb> But it looked really cute.
14:02:15 * andythenorth requests a console cheat command
14:02:19 <andythenorth> for newgrf testing
14:02:31 <andythenorth> build while pause is allowed
14:02:35 <andythenorth> magic bulldozer on
14:08:51 <Terkhen> hmm... wasn't there some way to script commands?
14:11:38 * andythenorth solves bug by reading spec
14:11:46 <andythenorth> not following spec may lead to bugs :P
14:16:34 <andythenorth> the results of var 67 and var 68 make no sense
14:18:02 <andythenorth> Terkhen: would you mind testing var 67 in newgrf debug
14:18:11 <andythenorth> wrt industry counts
14:19:50 <andythenorth> the results bear no relation to the actual industry count in game
14:20:25 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... why do we "invade" libya, but not syria?
14:20:42 <andythenorth> these are good questions
14:20:49 <andythenorth> but the one about var 67 might have a shorter answer
14:20:56 <andythenorth> currently I am sulking and suspect var 67 is broken
14:20:59 <Terkhen> andythenorth: ogfx+ industries has working code for this
14:23:28 <Terkhen> andythenorth: what do you want me to do?
14:23:53 <andythenorth> put industry IDs into the debug parameter field for var 67 in game
14:24:10 <andythenorth> see if the results match up in any way to count on map
14:24:16 <andythenorth> for me they don't, in no way at all
14:24:30 <andythenorth> this is just a check to be sure I'm not going insane
14:25:11 <Terkhen> but wasn't the result an array of bits with different meaning? stuff like distance and so on
14:25:29 <andythenorth> where cc is count and dddd is distance
14:28:43 <andythenorth> checking those vars probably shouldn't work
14:28:52 <andythenorth> odd results are probably correct
14:31:22 <andythenorth> var 67 and 68 need correct values in registers 100h (and maybe 101h)
14:33:44 <andythenorth> also var 67 isn't broken
14:34:34 <andythenorth> the basic code does yes
14:34:39 <andythenorth> there were several problems :P
14:34:58 * andythenorth might be ready to give up nfo
14:35:33 <Terkhen> I was trying to get nfo code from my nml code but I'm lost in the results :P
14:39:50 <andythenorth> does every tile belong to a town?
14:44:02 <Terkhen> andythenorth: the code for industries that are being founded looks for the closest town to the tile and uses that town
14:44:16 <Terkhen> I suppose the same is done for assigning a town to the industry once it is built
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14:44:35 <andythenorth> afaik there will always be a valid town as related object
14:45:31 <andythenorth> I need a way to locate an industry within n tiles of nearest town
14:45:38 <andythenorth> but I don't know how big the town is
14:45:48 <andythenorth> so it would make more sense to check for town edge, not centre
14:45:55 <andythenorth> this is probably not easy
14:47:32 <Terkhen> hmm... why? in your case, if you found a recycling center for another town (even if the recycling center is actually closer to a big town), the second recycling center would work for the small town anyways
14:48:30 <andythenorth> they need to be reasonably close to a town, or it's weird
14:48:36 <andythenorth> but towns get...big
14:48:42 <andythenorth> so possibly nowhere to build
14:48:59 <andythenorth> I guess 32 tiles might be a sane limit in most games
14:49:56 <Alberth> compute it from the population count :)
14:50:58 <andythenorth> there are word values of town radii I can access
14:51:11 <Terkhen> you can also use the number of houses as an approximation
14:51:17 <andythenorth> and number of buildings yes
14:51:23 <andythenorth> town radii seems best
14:51:28 <andythenorth> they are undocumented though
14:53:03 <andythenorth> Terkhen: have you learnt anything about town zones in your recent travels?
14:53:25 <Terkhen> nope, I have been carefully avoiding them
14:53:55 <Terkhen> it's one of the things I'll need to learn after I finish with persistent storage, but at first glance it looks confusing
14:54:52 <andythenorth> "The first zone is where station activity contributes to growth of the town, other zones determine where roads are paved or have trees or streetlights"
14:56:29 <andythenorth> I haven't learnt much from src either
14:57:23 <Terkhen> IIRC TAI used town zones a lot
15:03:44 * andythenorth gives up on that
15:03:51 <andythenorth> a fixed 16 tile limit will have to do
15:17:36 <andythenorth> it would be useful to be able to see which string IDs are already used
15:22:01 <andythenorth> if an industry has location restrictions
15:22:11 <andythenorth> would you want an error message explaining them?
15:22:47 <Terkhen> it should have one IMO, otherwise it is difficult to know why you can't place the industry
15:22:58 <andythenorth> I can't see how to do it with current FIRS codebase
15:23:08 <andythenorth> it's possible but breaks the language framework
15:23:16 <andythenorth> or the ID define framework
15:23:58 <andythenorth> I can't make a CPP define ID a cb result
15:24:08 <andythenorth> this is consistently a weakness of using CPP defines
15:25:24 <Bilge> I really think this "station spread" thing needs to be fixed for the next release
15:25:33 <Bilge> It has killed all the fun and challenge in playing for me
15:25:55 <andythenorth> Bilge: what's the issue?
15:26:00 <Bilge> For any town I can make a mint by placing a bus stop in the centre of two towns, then extending the stop by 12 squares in each direction so that the stops are almost adjacent
15:26:13 <Bilge> And send one bus between them and make a mint doing what should take at least 6-8 vehicles normally
15:26:39 <andythenorth> Terkhen: if I have, e.g. 01DCh for a text ID, but I need to use that in a cb result, I need to add 80h to it
15:26:51 <andythenorth> which cpp can't do
15:27:01 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I see... you can't do math with cpp defines I guess
15:27:12 <andythenorth> there are solutions, but they introduce maintenance headache
15:27:13 <Bilge> There is absolutely no distance penalty, the bus still makes the same profit it would as if it had travelled all the way to the centre of each town
15:27:43 <andythenorth> Bilge: that's not new
15:27:50 <andythenorth> if you don't like it, don't do it?
15:28:10 <Bilge> I have no problem with stations being "spread out" but the stops should at least need to be adjacent
15:31:14 <Bilge> The game is fundamentally about transporting things from A to B and this directly circumvents that
15:31:36 <Bilge> Now it's practically about transporting things from A to A
15:34:12 <Bilge> You can use it on coasts as well to teleport oil from a dock at the bottom of a cliff straight into the oil refinery without having to traverse the cliff with a transport route
15:34:28 <TrueBrain> Ammler: this one is for you: how the .... do you stop redmine from making 1M files of session-data?
15:34:33 <TrueBrain> that is just .... too much
15:35:27 <andythenorth> 'Bilge that's a pipeline :D
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15:55:58 <glx> TrueBrain: by not using it maybe ;)
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16:00:51 <andythenorth> with new tile layouts, I could just define one action 2 tile layout
16:00:56 <andythenorth> and set everything else with registers :O
16:01:25 <TrueBrain> the battle of the irc bots :D
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16:05:51 <Terkhen> I suspect that my ram is broken, what program can I use to test it?
16:06:44 <frosch123> it's something you boot though
16:06:54 <Terkhen> ok, I'll look into something live that includes it
16:07:08 <__ln__> iirc they have a bootable iso
16:07:12 <frosch123> do you natively boot into linux?
16:07:27 <TWerkhoven> most bootable linux-cd's come with a memtest, do they not?
16:07:31 <frosch123> then you can likely just select it in your package manager
16:09:06 <andythenorth> frosch123: can you shed any light on how town zones work?
16:09:24 <__ln__> in proper distros you can install memtest86, and it is added as an item into Grub, and you don't need to mess with CDs.
16:09:44 <Terkhen> __ln__: that's what I'm doing, yes
16:17:19 <frosch123> andythenorth: there are circles around the town sign with certain radii
16:17:29 <frosch123> the radii depend on the number of houses in the town
16:17:38 <frosch123> the outskirts are zone 0,
16:17:52 <frosch123> and the center of big cities is 4 or 5 or something like that
16:17:58 <andythenorth> so do all tiles have a town zone?
16:18:07 <frosch123> you can tell the townzones by the stuff along the road
16:18:29 <andythenorth> it's more how I can use it in location code that baffles me :)
16:18:52 <frosch123> all tiles within town influence have a townznoe
16:19:14 <frosch123> but there is a maximum radius where clearing trees no longer affects a town
16:19:34 <frosch123> but you might still consider that town zone 0 or so
16:19:49 <andythenorth> I want to figure out if I can force industries to locate in a certain zone
16:20:06 <andythenorth> so that they always build on current outskirts
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16:44:16 <TrueBrain> GENERAL NOTICE: openttd.org will be offline between 10 and 70 minutes (depending on your DNS :P) in like an hour. Grab the last file you need so badly quick :D
16:45:45 <andythenorth> orudge: forum request - can we have a bbcode for [strike] ?
16:46:00 <andythenorth> it would be handy occasionally
16:46:47 <andythenorth> <strike></strike> or style="text-decoration:line-through;"
16:48:16 <orudge> andythenorth: suggest it in Forum Suggestions, and I can look into it
16:48:21 * orudge is a bit busy just now
16:48:24 <orudge> so I am likely to forget about it
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17:31:18 <avdg> could someone put a http:// in <a href="www.ovh.de"> on the openttd site? ty
17:31:29 <Ammler> TrueBrain: why should I care about such thing?
17:31:43 <Ammler> I mean, why is it too much?
17:31:50 <TrueBrain> Ammler: never said you should care; just wondering if you fixed it :p
17:32:09 <TrueBrain> it never ever ever cleans up anything .. seems it makes a new session for each hit or something :p
17:32:38 <Ammler> hmm, where are those files?
17:32:54 <TrueBrain> in his tmp/sessions
17:34:03 <TrueBrain> was rsyncing it .. was like .... hell no :D
17:34:09 <TrueBrain> took 1 hour to remove all thsoe files ...
17:35:44 <Ammler> isn't noai.openttd.org depreciated anyway?
17:35:53 <Ammler> or how you call that :-)
17:36:29 <avdg> hmm, the image on the right top is broken now ;-)
17:36:43 <avdg> for example on the home page
17:36:49 <Ammler> well, you should also note, that you use a maybe 4 years old redmine
17:37:10 <TrueBrain> ... possible .... :D
17:45:27 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r22550 /trunk/src/lang/spanish.txt:
17:45:27 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:27 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: spanish - 1 changes by Terkhen
18:11:34 <orudge> Hmm, pressing "Random page" 6 times in a row on the Wiki gives me articles in strange languages, how unsatisfying :p
18:12:11 <Terkhen> yes, most of the changes are translations
18:12:40 <Terkhen> it seems that this week is the turn of chinese :P
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19:09:37 <Markk> Hai guys, "küken", what does that translate to in English?
19:12:26 <Markk> Yes, I tried Google Translator as well.
19:12:44 <Markk> But it should mean "chicken" I think.
19:13:00 <Markk> I would just like a native speaker to confirm which one it is. :)
19:13:21 <Amis> Well small chicken is called chick so yeah
19:13:35 <Ammler> Markk: chicken is Hünchen
19:14:44 <Markk> Ah, so it's not "küken", it's "kücken"?
19:15:05 <Ammler> (/me isn't native German, either, just Swiss :-)
19:15:28 <Markk> Native speaker was what I meant. :)
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19:53:30 <andythenorth> more FIRS I reckon
19:55:24 * andythenorth ponders best way to prevent industry opening during gameplay
19:55:47 <andythenorth> should industries be disabled in fund menu if opening is prevented?
19:56:36 <andythenorth> it's made for this
20:23:14 <bodis> any chance to get your advice for 5 minutes?
20:23:42 <bodis> if grf seems to be working, do I hg push at this time?
20:25:18 <andythenorth> or, like me, push when it's broken :P
20:25:23 <Terkhen> you will need to edit your clone's hgrc to have push permissions, though
20:25:25 <andythenorth> then the buildbot complains
20:25:36 <Terkhen> and I don't remember if you need to do something special regarding public/private keys or not
20:26:52 <Terkhen> planetmaker, Ammler: what do you need to set up in order to be able to push?
20:29:41 <andythenorth> your key needs to be on the server somewhere iirc
20:29:48 <andythenorth> and you need a local key somewhere on your OS
20:30:00 <Terkhen> yes, that's what I remembered
20:31:15 <bodis> Terkhen, thats fine I will ask Ammler or planetmaker when I see them
20:31:21 <bodis> you have helped me enogh :)
20:40:54 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r22551 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_storage.cpp newgrf_storage.h): -Fix: Remove BaseStorageArrays from _changed_storage_arrays on destruction.
20:47:33 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r22552 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_storage.h station_cmd.cpp): -Fix: Clear airport persistent storage on construction/removal of airports.
20:48:51 <Ammler> Terkhen: no need to setup something special to push
20:49:04 <Ammler> why did you think that? :-P
20:50:04 <Ammler> (assuming you speak about devzone)
20:50:18 <bodis> is there anything special I need to do to push?
20:50:32 <bodis> I have nml grf and lng files
20:50:44 <Ammler> yes, push those to your repo
20:50:47 <Terkhen> bodis: don't add your grf file to the repo, as it can always be generated
20:51:06 <bodis> do i have to delete it?
20:51:27 <Ammler> you can't push .grf without special config
20:54:31 <bodis> so just do a normal push from that directory with grf inside it?
20:55:41 <Terkhen> bodis: check #openttdcoop.devzone
20:57:21 <andythenorth> why is action 14 text rendering in the newgrf parameter window so slow?
20:57:28 <andythenorth> (this is YACD patch, but...)
20:58:11 <Terkhen> is it slow, or not being redrawn frequently enough?
20:59:01 <frosch123> redrawn? what should make it redraw besides on mouse clicks?
20:59:31 <andythenorth> it renders the text in patches
20:59:52 <frosch123> what are you doing?
21:00:09 <andythenorth> takes about 4s to complete rendering
21:00:12 <Terkhen> oh, I was thinking on a completely different window :O
21:00:21 <Terkhen> maybe I should stop coding for today
21:00:26 <andythenorth> this is specifically the newgrf description text
21:00:34 <frosch123> andythenorth: what are you doing, so the text needs updating?
21:00:42 <andythenorth> highlighting a parameter
21:00:52 <andythenorth> also the highlighting is really slow
21:00:58 <frosch123> so, clicking on a line?
21:01:13 * andythenorth wonders - is it just me seeing this?
21:02:01 <frosch123> yeah, looks like there is no SetDirty
21:02:39 <frosch123> and i think that issue is new
21:03:41 <andythenorth> also - action 14 text is cached until I quit game + reopen?
21:04:26 <frosch123> r22499 removed the SetDirty
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21:12:30 <frosch123> andythenorth: try again
21:12:38 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: frosch * r22553 /trunk/src/ (ai/ai_gui.cpp newgrf_gui.cpp): -Fix (r22499): NewGRF parameter window was not set dirty, when changing row selection.
21:12:46 <andythenorth> that should fix it :)
21:14:20 <andythenorth> wrong irc window :P
21:21:19 <andythenorth> frosch123: that fixed the text issue
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22:31:59 <bodis> omg 7 downloads alrewady :)
22:32:17 <bodis> somebody likes my newgrf :P
22:44:39 <SpComb> BR18 Rheingolds still smell
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continue to next day ⏵
