IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-06-09
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00:43:39 <r0w> hi
00:44:02 <r0w> i'm a newbie, and i'm having a small problem with bus, i've like 1'000 thousand ppl waiting
00:44:07 <r0w> how can i reduce this number ?
00:45:03 <r0w> i'd like to have this 1'000 ppl on the airport :d
00:56:49 <Bilge> Yexo: still here?
00:59:45 <DoubleYou> r0w, that happens a lot :)
01:00:10 <r0w> is there something to do ?
01:00:18 <r0w> i really hate bus :d
01:00:45 <DoubleYou> i'm not sure about the internals, but i think it has something to do with how often the bus visits and how often an airplane visits the station (which is commonly much rarer)
01:00:45 <DoubleYou> hehe
01:01:09 <DoubleYou> i haven't really found a solution to it either, but you could combine the bus and airport in a single route
01:01:42 <DoubleYou> also, probably because the bus station is in the middle of the city and the airport is more out, the catchment of the bus station takes many large buildings while the airport takes less
01:01:42 <Bilge> Transfers
01:02:02 <DoubleYou> that's possible too, transfer passengers by bus to the airport
01:02:18 <DoubleYou> still need to transfer all those 1000 passengers :) which needs quite a lot of buses
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01:03:08 <Bilge> Is anyone aware of this exploit:
01:03:12 <Bilge>
01:03:26 <r0w> yeah
01:03:44 <r0w> if I delete my bus station will the passenger at the airport increase ?
01:04:38 <Bilge> r0w:
01:05:04 <r0w> going to look
01:05:04 <r0w> thx
01:05:10 <Bilge>
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03:19:52 <thefirstdude> Hi]
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04:57:45 <bodis> morning
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05:49:36 <Terkhen> good morning
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06:32:23 <Terkhen> anyone knows if that BuildOTTD project still works?
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06:54:14 <planetmaker> iirc not
06:58:53 <Terkhen> <--- it is still being listed here as a valid option for compiling OpenTTD, but since it does not work on Vista (and I assume it does not work in 7 either) I can't test
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08:24:48 <Ammler> Terkhen: afaik, it doesn't work since the new openttd CF with
08:26:19 <Ammler> also the tool should be on sourceforge ready to fork ;-)
08:27:04 <Terkhen> I'll remove it from the "how can I compile" page then
08:27:49 <Ammler> hmm, not sure, but there might be a modified version on tt-forums
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08:30:22 <Terkhen> the last reference in the forums to a successful build using BuildOTTD is from 2009
08:31:09 <Ammler> wow, those spam bots got very clever: (or is that manual spam?)
08:31:24 <Terkhen> Ammler: they copy posts from the same thread
08:31:49 <Ammler> ah, I see
08:32:58 <Ammler> I added a simple antispam rule to our wiki: just block every content with \.com :-)
08:33:04 <Ammler> since then, no spam anymore
08:33:08 <planetmaker> :-D
08:33:18 <planetmaker> I cannot link to then :-( :-P
08:33:55 <Ammler> well, if they pay, I can make a exception :-)
08:34:03 <planetmaker> :-)
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08:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> why did i read "openttd.exe" the first time?
08:39:48 <Terkhen> :D
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09:24:05 <dihedral> oi#
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09:39:43 <Wolf01> hello
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10:07:06 <Bilge> Follow cam doesn't work unless you're fully zoomed in
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10:11:18 <Terkhen> yes
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11:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes google really scares me:
12:07:28 <welshdragon> aww
12:07:34 <welshdragon> poor Eddi|zuHause
12:08:20 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: have you actually understood what it said?
12:08:55 <welshdragon> nope :P
12:10:00 <planetmaker> outch
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12:10:16 <planetmaker> I really really wonder where that suggestion comes from
12:10:36 <welshdragon> i'm still trying to understand why my server doesn't read the openttd.cfg file in ./openttd
12:10:45 <Vikthor> That's gonna be some fuel for conspiracy theretics :p
12:10:51 <welshdragon> * /.openttd
12:10:53 <planetmaker> welshdragon, "how many cucumber were eliminated the last days?". Google suggests "how many Turkish were eliminated the last days"
12:10:54 <Vikthor> *theoretics
12:11:04 <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: usually if you also have one in pwd
12:11:49 <welshdragon> cheers Eddi|zuHause
12:13:06 <peter1138> heh
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12:14:01 <planetmaker> hm, today's google allows to play guitar :D
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12:14:58 <welshdragon> it was because I installed openttd in /root
12:15:12 <planetmaker> !
12:15:36 <welshdragon> yreah
12:15:46 <welshdragon> oops...
12:16:15 * planetmaker suggests to cure that with a heart-lightening "rm -rf /"
12:16:27 <welshdragon> mhm
12:16:39 <welshdragon> just going to move the config file
12:19:23 <Bilge> Don't you mean, light-hearted
12:19:35 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that doesn't work on modern distributions
12:19:56 <planetmaker> not?
12:20:00 <planetmaker> what changed?
12:20:02 <Eddi|zuHause> try it ;)
12:20:10 <planetmaker> :-D
12:20:21 <planetmaker> I know that this is an old one. And I'll be damned
12:20:34 <Bilge> Do servers always reset once they reach a certain date or is it just the one I'm playing on?
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12:21:00 <planetmaker> it's yours
12:21:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it needs something like --no-protect-root or similar
12:21:30 <planetmaker> interesting
12:21:38 <planetmaker> but actually sensible :-)
12:22:07 <Eddi|zuHause> --no-preserve-root
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12:25:18 * peter1138 plays the googletar
12:27:42 <Eddi|zuHause> is it supposed to make sound?
12:27:51 <peter1138> yes
12:28:08 <peter1138> either on mouseover or keyboard if you press the keyboard icon
12:28:08 <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't work here
12:30:58 <Eddi|zuHause> weird, sound works in firefox, but not in konqueror
12:31:38 <glx> blame the config I'd say
12:32:01 <Eddi|zuHause> next problem: how do i play half-tones ;)
12:34:35 <peter1138> quite :S
12:35:18 <glx> <-- so true (and not only in NYC)
12:36:34 <welshdragon> seen that on Reddit, glx
12:38:21 <peter1138> so many set ups :(
12:40:40 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and google has no clue about different keyboard layouts...
12:41:54 <welshdragon> Does it matter that my openttd.cfg file for 1.1.1 has [version]
12:41:54 <welshdragon> version_string = IS2.1.1
12:41:54 <welshdragon> version_number = 100048EB in it?
12:46:51 <welshdragon> meh
12:46:54 <welshdragon> it works
12:47:06 <welshdragon> now all I need to do is set graphics
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12:51:35 <Yexo> welshdragon: that version in your openttd.cfg should be overwritten as soon as you close openttd
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13:01:22 <JVassie> anyone aware of the best bridgetset to work with NA roads?
13:01:31 <JVassie> which will ideally work with nutracks too
13:01:38 <JVassie> *bridgeset
13:03:46 <V453000> some special version of total bridges
13:03:49 <V453000> 1.11
13:04:04 <V453000> there are multiple 1.11s even
13:04:58 <JVassie> hmm
13:05:14 <JVassie> happen to have a download link handy pls?
13:05:55 <Belugas> hello
13:10:37 <JVassie> V453000, does that version work with nutracks as well?
13:10:51 <V453000> as far as I know it does
13:11:05 <V453000> and no, I do unfortunately not have a link where to download it
13:11:14 <V453000> maybe google it, it is on the tt forum
13:11:21 <V453000> not sure if that is the correct version though
13:11:26 <TrueBrain> GENERAL NOTICE: will be a bit slow; we are doing some massive I/O operation on it, while sending out a lot of bytes over the network :)
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13:14:20 <JVassie> dotn worry found it
13:14:39 <JVassie>
13:14:42 <Terkhen> hi Belugas
13:16:20 <JVassie> one final question V453000 please, shoudl the bridge grf go before or after the road/rail grfs?
13:16:23 <JVassie> *should
13:16:35 <V453000> try?
13:16:48 <JVassie> :p
13:20:17 <Belugas> hello Terkhen :)
13:24:31 <JVassie> hmm
13:24:43 <JVassie> seems to work fien with nutracks
13:24:54 <JVassie> tbrs before nutracks in the list
13:25:14 <JVassie> with na roads it always seems to draw them in the modern style
13:25:20 <JVassie> before or after inthe list
13:25:25 <JVassie> but not a huge problem
13:26:49 <JVassie> thansk for the help :)
13:28:01 <planetmaker> JVassie, afaik roads can be only one style or the other...
13:28:22 <JVassie> aye
13:28:39 <JVassie> the bridges are never shown in the old dirt style though is what im saying
13:28:45 <JVassie> the normal roads change
13:28:50 <JVassie> just not on the bridges
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13:34:03 <V453000> if you _need_ to start playing before 1950 (which is when the roads are dirt), you can just change the roads with a parameter to be always bitumen
13:34:52 <Belugas> cool way to celebrate Les Paul :) Thanks Google
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13:36:10 <welshdragon> how do I find out (on a server game) which directory OpenTTD is looking for the config file?
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13:37:20 <Yexo> welshdragon: by reading readme.txt section 4.2
13:38:43 <welshdragon> right. /.openttd doesn't exist
13:38:51 * welshdragon tries that
13:39:03 <Yexo> it's ~/.openttd, not /.openttd
13:39:33 <welshdragon> yes, i know
13:39:47 <welshdragon> but it still didn't exits
13:39:50 <welshdragon> *exist
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13:40:11 <welshdragon> and anyway, the config loads fine
13:40:26 <welshdragon> I just can't get the server to load the newgrf'd
13:40:44 <Yexo> the newgrfs are specified in your config file?
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13:40:58 <welshdragon> yes
13:41:06 <Yexo> what is the exact location of the newgrfs and can you copy one line of your config file?
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13:41:59 <welshdragon> /home/markjones/content_download/data
13:42:01 <welshdragon> [newgrf-static]
13:42:01 <welshdragon> ottdc_grfpack/8_vehicles/road_vehicles/grvts/egrvts.grf =
13:42:31 <welshdragon> i've added them to [newgrf-static]
13:42:41 <peter1138> "cool", you've made ~ your openttd config directory
13:42:56 <welshdragon> nope
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13:43:08 <welshdragon> that's in /home/markjones ;)
13:43:18 <Yexo> welshdragon: ~ IS /home/markjones
13:43:30 <welshdragon> oh
13:43:32 <welshdragon> :P
13:43:43 <planetmaker> and... egrvts CANNOT be made static
13:43:57 <planetmaker> openttd will ignore that
13:43:58 <Yexo> that, and openttd will ignore your home directory as search path
13:44:14 <Yexo> so move your data directory to /home/markjones/.openttd/data/
13:45:14 <Yexo> having static grfs as server is stupid anyway, since "static" means "for this client only", on other words not for anyone who joins your server
13:45:29 <Yexo> for a server you either want to put them in "[newgrf]" or not at all
13:45:39 <welshdragon> ah, right
13:45:45 * welshdragon edits the config
13:48:44 <Bilge> Yexo are you aware of this exploit:
13:49:01 <Yexo> yes
13:49:22 <Bilge> Why is this allowed?
13:49:35 <planetmaker> why not?
13:49:43 <planetmaker> you're not forced to use it.
13:49:44 <Yexo> because nobody has find a way yet to disallow that via code
13:49:45 <JVassie> ...
13:49:50 <Yexo> and most servers disallow it via the rules
13:49:51 <planetmaker> And you can set station spread to a small value
13:49:58 <Bilge> Just decrease the range on station connection
13:50:02 <welshdragon> ok, content_download is now .openttd
13:50:06 <planetmaker> yes. Then just do that Bilge
13:50:16 <planetmaker> make the max station size 6 and it'd poof gone
13:50:24 <welshdragon> it still can't see the files
13:50:28 <welshdragon> :/
13:50:39 <welshdragon> (i did edit the config file)
13:50:41 <Bilge> I didn't realise it was a setting
13:50:47 <Yexo> welshdragon: if you start openttd with -d grf=5, do you get output about any newgrfs?
13:51:52 <welshdragon> after map generation I get this: ERROR: Could not start the server
13:52:12 <Yexo> and the lines before or after that?
13:53:11 <planetmaker> pastebin is a wonderful invention
13:53:19 <welshdragon>
13:53:24 <welshdragon> I get that ^
13:57:21 * welshdragon watches the channel fall silent...
13:57:37 <Yexo> sorry, no idea how that could happen
13:58:50 <welshdragon> I KNOW
13:58:56 <welshdragon> ok, content_download is now .openttd
13:59:01 <welshdragon> ^ I did that
13:59:04 <welshdragon> it broke :/
13:59:08 <planetmaker> ...
13:59:29 <Yexo> is there any content in that apart from a data/ directory?
13:59:41 <welshdragon> yup
13:59:44 <planetmaker> errm... why the heck do you wildly rename or symlink dirs?
13:59:49 <Yexo> an openttd.cfg perhaps?
14:00:05 <welshdragon> no
14:00:18 <Yexo> planetmaker: he had content_download in $HOME, and user data inside it
14:00:23 <Yexo> so in this case that rename was correct
14:02:42 <Yexo> welshdragon: do you at least see a lot of lines starting with "dgb: [grf]" in your output before those map generation lines?
14:02:44 <planetmaker> sounds strange enough
14:03:16 <welshdragon> Yexo, no
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14:03:31 <welshdragon> what i pasted is what the console outputs
14:04:04 <Yexo> that was not the complete output, the first lines of "Map generation percentage complete" are also missing
14:06:27 <welshdragon> is the complete output
14:06:42 <Yexo> that is not complete either
14:06:46 <Yexo> still missing lines at the start
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14:08:36 <welshdragon> yes, but this terminal cuts them off
14:09:02 <Yexo> so redirect the output to a file, for example by using tee
14:09:13 <Yexo> openttd -d grf=5 -D | tee output.txt
14:10:35 <Yexo> oh, add 2>&1 before the pipe, the output goes to stderr, not stdout
14:10:55 <peter1138> just delete everything
14:10:57 <peter1138> and give up
14:12:03 <welshdragon> no, I don't want to give u[
14:12:15 <welshdragon> i paid for this server god damn it
14:12:40 <Sacro> lolz
14:13:59 <dihedral> anybody with a spare vmware essentials license key for me?
14:14:00 <dihedral> :-P
14:14:10 <dihedral> uh - a Sacro! hello
14:14:37 <Sacro> hello dihedral
14:15:51 <planetmaker> and can only trade with a VMWare 5 key
14:15:54 <welshdragon> Yexo, found it: dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "grf=5", port 3979, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known
14:16:14 <Bilge> Isn't it a bug that you can only follow cam at maximum zoom level?
14:16:19 <Yexo> welshdragon: what is the exactly commandline you use to start openttd?
14:16:33 <planetmaker> Bilge, no
14:16:46 <welshdragon> openttd -D grf=5 2>&1 | tee debug.txt
14:17:02 <Yexo> Bilge: when zooming out more has to be drawn, so it's slower. When moving around it becomes even more slow
14:17:11 <Yexo> welshdragon: you missed the "-d" before "grf=5"
14:17:28 <Yexo> try: openttd -D -d grf=5 2>&1 | tee debug.txt
14:17:53 <Yexo> -d and -D are different options
14:18:32 <Sacro> really?
14:18:34 <Sacro> How strange...
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14:18:43 * Sacro trolls
14:20:11 <welshdragon>
14:20:16 * welshdragon trolls Sacro's mum
14:23:03 <planetmaker> welshdragon, you might consider to use a newer version of OpenGFX. Though it doesn't matter much for a server.
14:23:35 <Yexo> welshdragon: could you retry with "misc=3" instead of "grf=5"?
14:23:51 <planetmaker> or net?
14:23:57 <Yexo> hmm, actually misc=4
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14:24:01 <Yexo> that should print all search paths
14:24:37 <Yexo> planetmaker: first problem is "dbg: [grf] Scan complete, found 0 files"
14:24:54 <planetmaker> he, missed that :-)
14:25:44 <planetmaker> though it found some files before, obviously
14:26:06 <welshdragon>
14:27:12 <Yexo> welshdragon: you're starting openttd as root, that is a very bad idea
14:28:07 <Yexo> and I suppose that is also why it previously did find the grfs in /home/user/content_download, as that was not really your user dir (at least not while logged in as root)
14:28:50 <Yexo> if your config file is in /root/.openttd/openttd.cfg you need to move it to /home/<yourusername>/.openttd/openttd.cfg
14:29:27 <welshdragon> the only thing in root is the debug file from openttd
14:29:40 <planetmaker> what does whois tell you?
14:29:48 <planetmaker> whoami
14:29:50 <planetmaker> rather
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14:30:23 <welshdragon> root
14:30:25 <welshdragon> :s
14:30:27 <welshdragon> ok
14:30:29 <planetmaker> if it's (still) root: first create a proper user
14:30:33 <welshdragon> i'll try as my user
14:30:54 <planetmaker> avoid being root.... generally
14:31:08 <planetmaker> especially never start non-system programmes as root
14:31:51 <planetmaker> then... when you logged in as marc (or whatever), go to your home dir:
14:31:52 <planetmaker> cd
14:31:53 <Chris_Booth> where is the fun in that?
14:32:07 <planetmaker> then unzip your openttd in its own sub folder
14:32:25 <planetmaker> then put the openttd.cfg in ~/.openttd
14:32:33 <planetmaker> the base set files in ~/.openttd/data
14:32:56 <planetmaker> then try to start the server again
14:33:17 <planetmaker> or... better don't put any openttd.cfg anywhere
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14:50:40 <Yexo> welshdragon: did you get it to run?
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14:53:29 <welshdragon> Yexo, my user isn't in the sudoers file
14:53:40 <welshdragon> so I'm trying to figure that out now :)
14:53:57 <Yexo> it doesn't need to be
14:54:16 <Yexo> you should be able to start openttd as normal user
14:54:35 <welshdragon> yes. I need to install openttd, however
14:54:41 <welshdragon> (I got the .deb)
14:54:43 <Yexo> just log in as root
14:54:52 <Yexo> install openttd, log out, log in as normal user
14:54:54 <Yexo> run openttd
14:55:42 <planetmaker> welshdragon: actually for a server I do not recommend to actually install it
14:55:58 <planetmaker> Not that it doesn't work. But updates to a new version take more time ;-)
14:56:11 <planetmaker> and there's no need to install it anyway
14:56:29 <planetmaker> and you can more easily have several versions alongside eachother if you do not install them
14:56:31 <Ammler> yes, use generic linux
14:58:29 <welshdragon> so, what do you recommend. planetmaker?
14:59:45 <planetmaker> taking the binary from a normal zip and just unziping it into whatever dir
15:00:20 <welshdragon> ah
15:00:23 <welshdragon> doing that now
15:00:57 <planetmaker> we keep them as subdirs in our openttd user's home dir
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15:11:31 <welshdragon> Yexo, it now just ignores the newgrf's
15:11:57 <welshdragon> sec, I'll pastebin the output
15:14:41 <Ammler> where are your newgrfs saved?
15:14:52 <Ammler> (located)
15:15:14 <planetmaker> and who has read permissions to them?
15:15:53 <Yexo> probably the path in your config file is wrong
15:15:55 <welshdragon> they are in /home/markjones/openttd-1.1.1-linux-generic-i686/data
15:16:28 <welshdragon> permissions are 755
15:17:26 <welshdragon> oh
15:17:36 <welshdragon> hang on
15:17:41 <welshdragon> i might have sussed it
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15:17:56 <Ammler> would be wrong location anyway
15:18:05 <Ammler> should be in ~/.openttd/data
15:18:44 <Ammler> (not wrong, just not recommend)
15:19:05 <welshdragon> it's looking in usr/share/games/openttd
15:19:25 <welshdragon> perhaps, the grf's should be in there?
15:19:27 <Ammler> yep, also
15:19:35 <Ammler> no, that is just for root
15:19:43 <Ammler> you can't write there
15:20:29 <Ammler> even root should not write to /usr, just /usr/local :-)
15:22:08 <welshdragon> so, it is config file error?
15:22:20 <Ammler> as you have read teh readme, you know, there are around 4 different locations, openttd does search for newgrfs
15:22:41 <Ammler> where is your cfg?
15:22:59 <Ammler> I guess, it doesn't matter, though
15:23:38 <Ammler> location of cfg just matters for save location, afaik
15:23:58 <welshdragon> mm
15:24:12 * welshdragon shrugs
15:24:25 <Ammler> you have newgrf list in the cfg?
15:24:59 <Ammler> maybe those paths are wrong...
15:25:27 <welshdragon> yes, the newgrf's are listed in the config
15:25:48 <planetmaker> and where's the cfg?
15:25:52 <Ammler> I guess, you can just strip the paths and use filename only
15:26:26 <planetmaker> also... intially I suggest to just start with an empty newgrf list
15:26:35 <planetmaker> to see that the server runs at all.
15:26:50 <welshdragon> it does run
15:26:59 <Ammler> well, that I would assume as he said, it runs without newgrfs
15:27:00 <JVassie> I did earlier today, now I have approx. 45 newgrfs in there
15:28:00 <Ammler> also good idea is to configure game locally and then load the save on the server
15:30:51 <Ammler> just be sure to have same (=md5sum) newgrfs in ~/.openttd/data
15:34:10 <welshdragon> right, now the server won't start
15:34:34 <welshdragon> dbg: [net] getaddrinfo for hostname "misc", port 3979, address family either IPv4 or IPv6 and socket type tcp failed: Name or service not known
15:35:17 <Yexo> you forgot -d again
15:35:47 <welshdragon> no, that was just standard openttd -D
15:35:53 <welshdragon> (it failed on)
15:36:01 <Rubidium> you forgot it a previous time
15:36:34 <Yexo> edit your config file to remove some line in [server] that ends with "= misc"
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15:43:12 <welshdragon> i found it
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16:14:02 <welshdragon> can I disable all the [dbg] output?
16:14:32 <planetmaker> don't use "-d whatever" as switch
16:15:09 <welshdragon> it automatically does it when i run Openttd -D
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16:15:40 <bodis> evening
16:15:52 <glx> welshdragon: debuglevel net0 in the console IIRC
16:15:57 <Terkhen> hi bodis
16:16:21 <glx> and you can add it to autorun.scr
16:16:31 <glx> or something like that
16:17:58 <welshdragon> fuuuuuuuuuuu-
16:18:13 <welshdragon> why do I fail at setting up a server :(
16:20:07 <planetmaker> hi bodis
16:21:02 <Ammler> setup ottd server is not for uk guys
16:23:53 <Rubidium> because it's not translated to Welsh?
16:24:38 <Ammler> yes, s/uk/welsh/ :-)
16:25:37 <Ammler> welshdragon: if it fails, you could start again but this time read the readme :-)
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16:27:21 <Yexo> welshdragon: start with "-D -d net=0"
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16:35:19 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: planetmaker * r22548 /trunk/src/ (date_type.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: Name also the magic number for the lumber mill's tree cutting action (FeyFre)
16:38:21 <frosch123> hmm what does the button of the g of todays google logo do?
16:38:24 <welshdragon> cheers Yexo
16:38:53 <planetmaker> frosch123: sound?
16:39:24 <planetmaker> i.e. try to play guitar ;-)
16:39:40 <frosch123> yes, but i mean the button which goes red if you press it
16:39:45 <frosch123> it has no effect for me
16:39:55 <welshdragon> NewGRF Mismatches
16:39:59 <Yexo> hovering the sings plays a sound here
16:40:11 <welshdragon> so I guess that fails
16:40:13 <frosch123> so it does for me :)
16:40:27 <Prof_Frink> frosch123: keyboard
16:40:48 <frosch123> ah, indeed, thanks
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16:50:46 <welshdragon>
16:50:58 <welshdragon> will that cause a fail?
16:51:18 <Yexo> depends, are the grfs named liked that in your data/ directory?
16:51:32 <Yexo> if they are in a subdirectory I think you'll have to provide the relative path from the data directory
16:52:02 <welshdragon> they are in data/content_download/ and are all .tar files
16:52:03 <Yexo> also you have "egrvts.grf" and "chips", you either have to provide ".grf" or not, but one of the too will cause a fail
16:52:45 <welshdragon> ah, yes
16:53:08 <Yexo> you'll have to provide the path inside the tar file
16:53:37 <Yexo> so if chips is in data/content_download/data/chips.tar/chips/chips.grf you have to put "chips/chips.grf" in your config file
16:54:08 <welshdragon> so I'll need to unpack all the files? fine. I can do that
16:54:32 <Yexo> no, you just need to find out the name of the directory inside the tar
16:56:01 <Yexo> "tar -tf filename.tar" will list all files and directories inside filename.tar
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17:45:42 <Klatuferatanektu> Hi
17:45:42 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: translators * r22549 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
17:45:42 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:42 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
17:45:42 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: dutch - 2 changes by Parody
17:45:42 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: norwegian_bokmal - 16 changes by kristoffer_hh
17:45:43 <CIA-10> OpenTTD: swedish - 7 changes by Ingerfara
17:47:27 <Klatuferatanektu> A friend and me installed openttd 1.1.1 win64bit version. everythigng seems to work fine. but: we cannot find the server the other one created
17:47:31 <Klatuferatanektu> whats wrong?
17:48:24 <fjb> Sounds like a router or firewall issue.
17:48:25 <planetmaker> @ports
17:48:25 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication, UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound), and TCP port 3978 for content service, a.k.a. BaNaNaS (outbound)
17:48:34 <planetmaker> check your routers and firewalls
17:49:39 <Klatuferatanektu> ok, thy. ill check taht
17:51:15 <welshdragon> Klatuferatanektu, also: it helps if your friend has got the server set to advertise
17:57:27 <Klatuferatanektu> welshdragon: how to set the server to advertise?
18:00:57 <welshdragon> Klatuferatanektu, when starting a server: under Connection (it's default is LAN/Internet), choose Internet (Advertise)
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18:17:22 <welshdragon> YEEEEEES!
18:17:25 <welshdragon> my server works
18:17:40 <welshdragon> and so do the Newgrf's :D
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18:20:39 <planetmaker> congratz :-)
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19:11:03 <Bilge> Why do some servers pause when players connect while others don't?
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19:11:54 <TWerkhoven> its a server-side setting
19:12:03 <__ln__> *it's
19:12:27 <TWerkhoven> some servers enable it so people can establish a connection before the cpu gets too loaded with all the vehicles
19:12:50 <Bilge> wat
19:13:11 <Bilge> I am 99% certain that would NOT be the reason it exists
19:17:18 <planetmaker> thus one can err
19:18:43 <V453000> lol
19:26:57 <peter1138> no
19:27:05 <peter1138> it is 100% the reason that setting exists
19:27:49 * peter1138 remembers the bad old days...
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19:29:54 * V453000 remembers the bad current days...
19:29:55 <V453000> :p
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19:42:10 <bodis> quick question, I downloaded the following NewGRFs, are they compatible with each other and in which order to enable them: British Town Names, TTRS3.11, eGRVTS, 2cc train
19:42:32 <planetmaker> yes. any
19:42:47 <bodis> this is my first attempt to use NewGRF's so sorry if the question is dumb
19:42:58 <bodis> k ty planetmaker
19:43:17 <bodis> planetmaker, what do you guys use for new grf's, C++?
19:43:37 <planetmaker> it has its own language
19:43:43 <bodis> ohh
19:43:57 <bodis> what is it
19:44:17 <planetmaker> there are two options: nfo which is the equiv. of assembler
19:44:21 <bodis> do you need a trainee?:P
19:44:22 <Yexo> nfo, the documentation can be found here:
19:44:27 <planetmaker> and there's nml. which can be compared to c then
19:44:39 <Yexo> meanwhile there is also nml, which is a bit higher language and the compiler for nml can output either nfo or grf files
19:44:45 <bodis> assembler sounds good
19:44:50 <Yexo> documentation of the latter is here:
19:45:09 <bodis> which is preferred?
19:45:17 <Yexo> nml for readability :)
19:45:17 <planetmaker> personal choice
19:45:23 <Yexo> but I'm obviously biased
19:45:26 <planetmaker> but... I'd pick nml every day
19:45:26 <bodis> ok
19:45:29 <bodis> hehe
19:45:41 <bodis> steep learning curve?
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19:45:56 <planetmaker>
19:45:56 <Yexo> and
19:46:00 <Yexo> you can compare those two files
19:46:00 <planetmaker> ^ look through there
19:46:06 <bodis> ok ty
19:46:11 <planetmaker> ah, good thing, Yexo :-)
19:46:15 <Yexo> the first one is nml code, the second one is the nfo output by the nmlc compiler
19:46:28 <Yexo> manually written nfo is somewhat easier to read sometimes, but not much
19:46:35 <planetmaker> which you'd need to write, if you chose nfo ;-), but
19:46:47 <planetmaker> what he says
19:47:01 <Yexo> writing nfo is not much harder than reading, perhaps even easier
19:47:18 <planetmaker> I guess so, yes
19:47:24 <bodis> some code :)
19:47:32 <planetmaker> but re-visiting the same is... bad ;-)
19:47:53 <planetmaker> bodis: the big newgrfs have severa thousands of lines of code
19:47:55 <planetmaker> in nfo
19:47:58 <Yexo> bodis: in the repository it's cleanly divided in multiple files
19:48:07 <Yexo> but this is the only way to directly compare nml to nfo
19:48:20 <Yexo> planetmaker: also in nml
19:48:22 <bodis> I will take a look, looks I will go nml way
19:48:31 <planetmaker> yes, also there
19:48:35 <bodis> is nml used only for ttd?
19:48:43 <Terkhen> yes
19:48:43 <planetmaker> yes
19:48:47 <bodis> :)
19:48:59 <planetmaker> it's similar to gimp-fu
19:49:05 <planetmaker> it has one use-case
19:49:14 <bodis> ok seems like a challenge :)
19:49:31 <bodis> you boys are active developers?
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19:49:55 <planetmaker> we're inactivity impersonated
19:50:01 <bodis> lol
19:50:14 <Terkhen> in nml or in openttd? :P
19:50:20 <planetmaker> :-D
19:50:26 <planetmaker> or nfo?
19:50:56 <Yexo> bodis: everyone in this channel with op or voice is an openttd developer
19:51:03 <bodis> ok
19:51:17 <Yexo> planetmaker, Terkhen and myself are also developers of nml
19:51:25 <bodis> omg
19:51:51 <Terkhen> for nml I write small patches and documentation that Yexo has to review anyways :P
19:51:56 <Yexo> hence why I said: I'm obviously biased :)
19:52:09 <bodis> right
19:52:13 <bodis> toturials?
19:52:17 <Terkhen> which reminds me that I completely forgot about grf2nml
19:52:23 <Yexo> for nml or nfo?
19:52:27 <bodis> nml
19:52:44 <Yexo> the reference documentation and the forum topic:
19:53:00 <Terkhen> I don't think we have a step by step tutorial, though
19:53:01 <Yexo> there are also small examples in the regression test directory
19:53:12 <Terkhen> but feel free to ask as many questions as you want :P
19:53:31 <Terkhen> you should play a bit with NewGRFs first to know what they can be do :)
19:53:38 <Terkhen> s/can be/can/
19:53:40 <bodis> yep
19:53:42 <Yexo> and all opengfx+ projects could serve as example too, you can find them here:
19:55:01 <Yexo> Terkhen: just updated both and
19:56:20 <Terkhen> nice, I almost have linux again :)
19:56:27 <bodis> lol
19:56:30 <planetmaker> almost?
19:56:42 <Terkhen> the stupid thing refuses to automount:P
19:56:46 <planetmaker> that's like "a little bit pregnant" ;-)
19:56:51 <Alberth> almost graduated? :)
19:57:09 <Terkhen> and if there is anything that annoys me I can't work
19:59:28 <Terkhen> Yexo: what was changed?
19:59:43 <Yexo> nothing significant
19:59:56 <Yexo> mostly removed all parts you committed
20:00:28 <Terkhen> ok :)
20:00:56 <bodis> Yexo, python 3.x not compatible?
20:01:11 <Yexo> not sure, I haven't tested with python 3.x in a long time
20:01:25 <Yexo> but I think PIL (python imaging library) is not compatible with python 3 yet
20:01:28 <bodis> what ships with debian squeeze?
20:01:32 <Terkhen> last time I tested refused to work
20:01:38 <Yexo> maybe it is in the meantime, but if not that is a major blocker
20:01:39 <Terkhen> bodis: use python --version
20:01:47 <Yexo> Terkhen: is part of nml ;)
20:01:58 <Yexo> that can be easily changed, if the rest of the code works
20:02:16 <bodis> 2.6.6 awes,ome :)
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20:06:19 <bodis> how many projects are you guys working on?
20:06:57 <Yexo> that really depends on how you count
20:07:20 <Terkhen> too many? :P
20:07:22 <Yexo> biggest projects by far are openttd and nml
20:07:51 <bodis> wait a sec, you are actual developers of openttd itself?
20:08:10 <Alberth> what else :p
20:08:16 <bodis> lol
20:08:19 <bodis> awesome
20:08:20 <Yexo> <Yexo> bodis: everyone in this channel with op or voice is an openttd developer <- isn't that what I said?
20:08:21 <Terkhen> as Yexo said, everyone with op or voice here is a developer of openttd
20:08:29 <bodis> yeah..
20:08:54 * bodis shuts up
20:08:56 <bodis> :P
20:09:04 <Alberth> including DorpsGek :p
20:09:29 <DorpsGek> of course I am
20:09:30 <bodis> right so what is good for a first project?
20:09:44 <bodis> need to get a feel of nml
20:09:55 <Yexo> play openttd, find something you don't like, and look for a good way to fix it
20:10:06 <planetmaker> ^
20:10:08 <bodis> ahhh
20:10:14 <bodis> got one already
20:10:16 <planetmaker> that's how all these projects started
20:10:19 <bodis> time goes too quick :)
20:10:39 <bodis> I bet there is a newgrf for that :)
20:10:45 <Yexo> if you want to start with newgrf coding, you could try to see if there are any projects at the forum in need for a coder
20:10:49 <planetmaker> not feasible
20:10:53 <Yexo> no newgrf, but there is a patch for it
20:11:02 <bodis> hmm
20:11:06 <Terkhen> I tried to do one and failed :P
20:11:15 <Alberth> there are several daylength patches around
20:11:16 <bodis> I thought it would be as easy as to change a time variable
20:11:38 <bodis> :)
20:11:52 <Yexo> industry processing is done every 256 ticks, but a newgrf could in theory rely on the fact that that is 8 or 9 times per month
20:12:12 <bodis> ahh
20:12:13 <Yexo> if it does, it'll break if industry production is suddenly done 18 times per month
20:12:16 <planetmaker> time for bed. Good night folks
20:12:22 <Yexo> good night planetmaker
20:12:25 <bodis> nn
20:12:27 <Terkhen> night planetmaker
20:12:37 <Yexo> there are more similar problems: should the income per trip be altered or not?
20:12:37 <bodis> Yexo> if you want to start with newgrf coding, you could try to see if there are any projects at the forum in need for a coder <-- not a coder yet :)
20:12:46 <Alberth> and you don't want to increase daily income just because to lengten the day
20:13:01 <Yexo> if not, you can make a lot more profit in the same "years" by tuning the daylength factor, which means the highscore table is useless
20:13:06 <bodis> what happens after 2050?
20:13:06 <Yexo> of course it already is to some extend
20:13:19 <Alberth> the game continues
20:13:26 <Yexo> there are no new vehicels anymore, but otherwise you can just play on
20:13:26 <bodis> game goes on as normal?
20:13:32 <bodis> ahh ok
20:14:01 <Alberth> until around the year 5000000 :)
20:14:01 <Yexo> only in the year 5000000 (perpahs a zero more or less) the gameyear will stay the same
20:14:14 <bodis> lol
20:14:42 <Terkhen> could you define dates of introduction greater than 2050?
20:15:44 <Alberth> bodis: if you like toyland, there are almost no newgrfs for that climate
20:15:59 <bodis> never played it :)
20:16:15 <bodis> I would prefer mars :)
20:16:47 <bodis> I will start looking into this
20:16:52 <Bilge> I can already provide you with a list of things that need fixing
20:17:09 <Alberth> :D
20:17:11 <bodis> I havent touched nml yet
20:17:21 <bodis> need to learn it first
20:17:26 <bodis> dont i?
20:17:28 <Alberth> everybody has such a list ;)
20:17:33 <bodis> lol
20:17:36 <Bilge> Indeed
20:17:50 <Bilge> Is there an actual suggestions tracker?
20:18:07 <Terkhen> bodis: I'm planning to do a mars newgrf :P
20:18:15 <Yexo> there are several suggestions in the bug tracker:
20:18:17 <bodis> awesome, I am in :)
20:18:18 <Alberth> Bilge: the wiki?
20:18:20 <Yexo> but nothing related to newgrfs
20:18:25 <Terkhen> great :P
20:18:32 <bodis> hehe
20:18:33 <Yexo> the wiki also has a long list:
20:18:34 <Terkhen> it needs some changes in openttd itself before, though
20:18:46 <bodis> hmm
20:19:05 <Terkhen> and don't forget the suggestions forum:
20:19:06 <Yexo> and there is a suggestions forum:
20:19:15 <Alberth> Yexo: newgrf requests don't really belong in the openttd trackers imho
20:19:21 <Yexo> agreed
20:19:27 <Terkhen> bodis: for example, currently there is no way to decide which cargos make towns grow
20:19:30 <Yexo> but they don't "belong" anywhere currently
20:19:39 <Yexo> there are also some in the graphics development section:
20:19:53 <Terkhen> well, there is but it is not as complete as it should
20:19:58 <Yexo> Terkhen: isn't that what TOWN_EFFECT is for?
20:20:28 <bodis> so what does make town grow?
20:20:41 <Terkhen> Yexo: but if I want two cargos affecting town growth that forces me to use the tropic climate
20:20:46 <Yexo> bodis: see
20:21:00 <bodis> right you know what boys, I am intrigued
20:21:08 <bodis> I will get on this and start reading up
20:21:11 <Yexo> <Terkhen> well, there is but it is not as complete as it should <- my reaction was before you wrote this, I completely agree there :)
20:21:12 <bodis> and playing :)
20:21:26 <Yexo> playing is no requirement :p
20:21:30 <bodis> lol
20:21:50 <Terkhen> :)
20:22:07 <Yexo> last time I played was openttdcoop psg200, they're not at 208
20:22:14 <Yexo> s/not/now/
20:22:37 <Terkhen> I have been playing a lot lately, but probably because I'm already coding a lot but for stuff not related to openttd
20:22:55 <Terkhen> I should write a wiki page of requirements for the mars conversion grf
20:23:08 <Alberth> yacd needs testing :p
20:23:18 <Terkhen> I have been doing that :)
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20:31:57 <bodis> damn the code is complicated
20:32:04 <bodis> or is wine in my blood?
20:32:17 <Alberth> a bit of both :)
20:32:17 <Terkhen> which code? openttd or nml? :P
20:32:22 <bodis> nml
20:32:29 <bodis>
20:32:32 <bodis> looking at this
20:32:46 <Terkhen> hmm... that's the generated, complete nml file
20:32:55 <bodis> i will need some help cracking it
20:33:20 <Terkhen> you will have an easier time checking the separate files, at least they are organized:
20:33:41 <Terkhen> "header" is the initial file
20:34:01 <Alberth> or clone a copy to your machine
20:34:21 <Terkhen> yes, if you have mercurial:
20:35:51 <Alberth> you can start with a town-name newgrf, those are very simple. Then make it generate names from parts.
20:36:06 <bodis> k
20:36:35 <bodis> I will have to do this tomorrow, had 2 glasses of wine tonight... head not working very clear :P
20:36:52 <Alberth> industries are more complicated, as you have to specify a lot of things
20:37:21 <Alberth> some vehicle coding is also not too difficult, I think (never done that, so not sure)
20:37:34 <Terkhen> bodis: <--- this is one of the most simple newgrfs in nml
20:37:38 <bodis> ok I will aim to create lithuanian town grf, if there aint one already
20:38:31 <bodis> this one is simple!
20:38:42 <bodis> I can understand it :)
20:38:43 <Alberth> nml makes it simple :p
20:39:21 <Terkhen> bodis: the grfid is a (supposedly) unique identifier for the newgrf, then it defines the name, description and version
20:39:32 <Alberth> in nfo, you cannot have 4000 names.
20:39:40 <Terkhen> after that it defines a block of town names, each one with the same probability (1)
20:39:46 <Yexo> you can, but not in one block
20:39:54 <bodis> right, apologies in advance, I might have to annoy you guys with dumb questions for next few months :)
20:39:54 <Terkhen> oh, some have different probabilities :P
20:40:09 <Alberth> no problem at all :)
20:40:09 <Terkhen> bodis: don't worry, that's how I started too :P
20:40:14 <bodis> hehe
20:40:33 <bodis> good project to get stuck into
20:40:37 <Terkhen> :)
20:41:03 <bodis> done php last 4 weeks, need something new
20:42:27 <bodis> ok gonna play some ottd now, cant concentrate anyway :)
20:42:29 <Bilge> If not operating on a noise basis, what is the maximum number of airports for a town?
20:42:36 <Yexo> 2
20:42:59 <Terkhen> bodis: enjoy ;)
20:43:11 <bodis> whats better money maker, trains or plains?
20:43:13 <bodis> #ty
20:43:18 <Alberth> planes
20:43:24 <bodis> k
20:43:30 <Yexo> depends on the used grfs
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20:45:23 <Bilge> Yexo how do you fund your OTTD obsession
20:45:52 <Yexo> being on irc is easy enough during college ;)
20:46:17 <Yexo> and I'm not always as much online as the last few days
20:46:42 <Bilge> Studying comp sci?
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20:47:05 <Yexo> yes, how did you guess? :p
20:47:22 <Bilge> I didn't, I am your #1 stalker
20:51:02 <Bilge> Is there any kind of quality control involved with the bananas system or can anyone upload anything there, including broken or potentially malicious grfs?
20:51:35 <Terkhen> how can you code a malicious grf?
20:52:31 <Bilge> Buffer overflow maybe; I'm not here to theorise, just asking the question
20:53:05 <Terkhen> openttd should detect newgrfs with those kind of errors and disable them
20:53:26 <__ln__> "should"
20:53:40 <Terkhen> I can't claim to have tested every case :P
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21:30:21 <TrueBrain> GENERAL NOTICE: will be a bit slow; we are doing some massive I/O operation on it, while sending out a lot of bytes over the network :)
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21:37:13 <Terkhen> good night
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21:42:05 <Bilge> dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/sda?
21:43:01 <Eddi|zuHause> urandom is faster
21:44:35 <Eddi|zuHause> also this hardly counts as "over the network"
21:45:25 <bodis> nn
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21:51:39 <Elvang> Greetings
21:52:21 <Elvang> When updating, do I just install over the previous version?
21:53:18 <Yexo> yes
21:53:28 <Elvang> Alright, thanks.
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