IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-23
00:23:41 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- why do they have to put the car into a train, in order to put the train on a ship?
00:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> (this is the provisory ferry line Großenbrode-Gedser, after the traditional ferry line Warnemünde-Gedser ended up on the other side of the iron curtain, and before the proper "bird flight" ferry route Putgarden-Rodby opened (needed the "Fehmarnsund" bridge)
00:26:06 <Eddi|zuHause> )
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02:07:37 <gartral> is there anyway too have trains automatically ignore signals if there's a gridlock? preferably safely?
02:15:42 <glx> no because it's never safe
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02:16:42 <gartral> glx that's not true, there's always a safe re-route. i've had many a deadlock and only crashed trains when i hit one other than what i was planning..
02:24:19 <Eddi|zuHause> use path signals
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02:39:57 <gartral> I also have a massive bug too point out: i have a subsidy between two towns, built the station and railcar connections at one town, rails through the other, but the second town isn't allowing me too build the station i need too make the connection.. what gives?
02:40:15 <ccfreak2k> Or escape depots in frequently locked areas.
02:41:05 <gartral> what can i do in this situation?
02:42:54 <gartral> I can post my savegame if anyone wants too look... though my systems are particularly ugly
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02:45:35 <sjr> Hmmmmm I copied the sound files from windows, the is there, in the config options it's listed but grayed out
02:49:38 <gartral> this is stupid, i can't demolish anything i've built in this town, and i can't complete building for the subsidy... what gives
02:54:21 <gartral> sjr: you aren't going from 32bit<->64bit
02:54:24 <gartral> are you?
02:55:01 <sjr> hmm no
02:55:06 <sjr> but I just got the dos files and it worked
02:55:12 <sjr> I was running on 64-bit now
02:55:15 <sjr> probably for the first time actually
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02:59:42 <gartral> and just lost that subsidy because the town is a jerkwad..
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04:42:19 <Figgy_> damn you pikka
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05:16:41 <sjr> When I fund an industry to prospected is there any reason why nothing would ever show up?
05:18:07 <Pikka> prospecting doesn't have a 100% chance of finding anything
05:18:48 <sjr> ah
05:19:48 <Pikka> for newgrf industries the probability of success is adjustable, I have no idea what it is for default industries
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06:25:23 <Pikka> it's andythenorth!
06:25:58 <andythenorth> it's Pikka !
06:26:06 <Pikka> it is!
06:26:06 <andythenorth> salut
06:26:13 <Pikka> bongiorno
06:26:18 <andythenorth> what if it's fake pikka?
06:26:21 <andythenorth> how would I know?
06:26:36 <Pikka> you have to bite it and see if it leaves a mark
06:27:06 * Pikka works on starliner sprites
06:27:21 <planetmaker> Wer Pikka nachmacht oder verfälscht oder nachgemacht oder gefälschte Pikka in den Umlauf bringt wird nicht mit Freiheitsstrafe unter 5 Jahren bestraft
06:27:24 <planetmaker> moin :-)
06:27:27 <Pikka> and then, a helicopterr of some description!
06:27:40 <Pikka> guten tag herr planetmaker
06:27:58 <planetmaker> (sorry, I can't translate legaleze properly ;-) - it's the text written on bank notes)
06:28:35 <andythenorth> "upon presentation, please pay bearer sum of ten pikkas" ?
06:28:46 <planetmaker> in essence: those who distribute fraudulent pikkas will be sentenced to 5 years jail or more
06:30:08 <Pikka> woo
06:37:54 <Pikka> andy: is there some table of all ships in / planned for feesh?
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06:40:50 <heffer_> can anyone tell me what's going on here: ?
06:41:43 <Terkhen> good morning
06:42:10 <heffer_> good morning :)
06:42:26 <Pikka> good morning!
06:45:14 <andythenorth> Pikka: feesh set design...evolves
06:45:48 <planetmaker> moin Terkhen
06:45:55 <planetmaker> and moin heffer
06:45:59 <heffer_> moin :)
06:46:02 * Pikka looks forward to proper intro date, cost and speed stats ;)
06:46:22 <planetmaker> Pikka: in what way?
06:46:32 <Pikka> in a FISHy way
06:46:39 <planetmaker> :-D
06:46:54 <andythenorth> Pikka: cost + speed are correct
06:47:15 <Pikka> hmm
06:47:19 <andythenorth> intro date is made up for reasons of .... lack of drawings for early ships
06:47:31 <Pikka> k :D I must admit I'm not necessarily up to date with the grf
06:50:48 <V453000> Pikka: I have experienced a bug with UKRS2 ... the monster hopper wagons in tropic were loaded with some FIRS cargo ... stone and sand .... and there was a whie line under the wagons
06:50:51 <V453000> white line
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06:51:12 <andythenorth> Pikka: ygm
06:51:19 <andythenorth> (assumes you can open xls)
06:51:40 <Alberth> moin andy
06:51:53 <andythenorth> hi Alberth
06:52:04 <Pikka> V453000, yes, there's a lot of it about
06:52:09 <andythenorth> current FISH costs vary from tracking table - I'm not sure why :(
06:52:19 <V453000> Pikka: ok :)
06:52:19 <andythenorth> dunno if it's a difficulty setting, or a mistake by me :(
06:52:55 <Pikka> andy, I only ever think of costs as being in nfo units, I don't worry about what number that actually comes out as in game :P
06:55:07 <Alberth> maybe we should add 'NFO' as currency :)
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06:56:18 <heffer_> a little off topic question, as i know there are many dutch people here :) : i'm currently in the netherlands an i'm thinking about getting a prepaid sim card. which one should i get? which one has good deals in mobile internet?
06:56:18 <planetmaker> moin Alberth
06:56:31 <Pikka> except the base units are different for everything, Alberth
06:56:57 <Pikka> D: at introdates, andythenorth
06:57:44 <Pikka> it's all 1870 or 1950 :o
06:57:49 <Pikka> or later
06:57:50 <andythenorth> yarp
06:58:11 <andythenorth> that's for my own purposes
06:58:18 <andythenorth> I need ships in my 1870 game :)
06:58:27 <andythenorth> I don't care if they're 'wrong'
06:58:52 <Pikka> heh :)
06:59:23 <planetmaker> andythenorth: debug parameter? If set, enable "early" availability?
06:59:45 <Pikka> definitely needs more sail oil tankers though
07:00:33 <andythenorth> planetmaker: possible
07:00:41 <andythenorth> Pikka: sailing oil tankers?
07:00:53 <planetmaker> :-D
07:01:46 <Pikka>
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07:03:25 <andythenorth> hokey dokey
07:03:42 <andythenorth> Alberth: any more thoughts on industry layout (selector)
07:04:10 <Alberth> not by me
07:05:57 * andythenorth does have earlier ships planned for FISH
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07:06:01 <andythenorth> but is scared of drawing sails
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07:16:18 <Pikka> ouch
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07:22:28 <Pikka> Bing Bing
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07:37:33 <Pikka> andy: I'll render some sailboats if you're willing to do all the retouching :D
07:41:14 <gartral> I also have a massive bug too point out: i have a subsidy between two towns, built the station and railcar connections at one town, rails through the other, but the second town isn't allowing me too build the station i need too make the connection.. what gives?
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07:41:34 <andythenorth> Pikka: do one and I'll try it?
07:41:47 <andythenorth> or outsource to my canadian production partner :P
07:41:56 <Pikka> gartral: not a bug, the town just doesn't like you because you've been hacking up the landscape
07:42:15 <Pikka> try bribing the town, planting trees, or just waiting. and next time, build the station first ;)
07:42:48 <Pikka> andy, deal :)
07:43:22 <Pikka> gartral
07:43:45 <gartral> Pikka: well I don't see how they can stop me, seeing as i was trying too fullfill the subsidry.. they shouldn't stop me. also, it's a railcar station, i kinda need too make the rails before the station..
07:44:23 <Pikka> well, it's the way the game mechanics have always been, right back to TTO. Sorry. :)
07:44:56 <andythenorth> the baby is pouring water into my laptop. Good or bad?
07:45:12 <Pikka> splendid, andythenorth
07:45:13 <gartral> it's still a bug that cost me that subsidry, and i can't bulldoze what i've built... how can the local authorities stop me from demolishing my OWN property?
07:45:21 <Terkhen> sounds fun, at least for the baby :)
07:45:30 <Terkhen> gartral: they can't
07:45:38 <Terkhen> they can stop you from demolishing their road
07:45:42 * andythenorth back to redrawing FIRS
07:45:47 <andythenorth> redrawing is never done :P
07:45:51 <Terkhen> use remove station instead
07:46:06 <Terkhen> andythenorth: :)
07:46:09 <gartral> Terkhen: well they are.. i can't bulldoze the rail path that's ontop of their roads..
07:46:24 <Terkhen> remove only the rail then
07:46:31 <gartral> Terkhen: i havent built the damn station yet, they stopped me from doing that, too
07:46:39 <gartral> Terkhen: I CAN'T
07:46:45 <Terkhen> I assure you that you can :)
07:46:59 <Terkhen> use remove rail, not the bulldozer
07:47:37 <Alberth> actually, 'dynamite' :)
07:47:40 <gartral> Terkhen: they really are stopping me, i have the streetcar tool selected, with the rail, and they keep saying that i can't demolish their property.
07:47:52 <gartral> right, i've been using the bulldozer all along
07:48:27 <Terkhen> if the error message says "demolish" you are using the dynamite (sorry, I got confused with the bulldozer :) )
07:48:27 <Alberth> select a rail track, select the bulldozer, you get a red track cursor
07:49:54 <gartral> Alberth: I know how oo use the freaking remove tool.. the "local authority" is stopping me. it's a freaking bug
07:50:14 <Alberth> save game please
07:50:24 <gartral> Alberth: where can i post it?
07:51:46 <Alberth> forums, some file sharing site (hmm, seems down)
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07:55:33 <gartral> im also having trouble finding the town
07:56:08 <Pikka> can I ask the obvious question? gartral, what version of openttd are you playing?
07:56:14 <Alberth> town directory window, click the name ?
07:57:20 <gartral> ok
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08:02:21 <gartral> Alberth:
08:02:30 <gartral> Pikka: 1.1.0
08:03:30 <gartral> please note there is a bad ai in that save, which brings up another glitch, AI's should be disabled after the company they controlled folds..
08:04:18 <Pikka> gartral: removing tram tracks in the towns works fine for me in that save
08:04:32 <gartral> Pikka: weird, i can't do it >.<
08:04:52 <Pikka> you definitely have, eg, the tram track construction window open, not the road one?
08:05:09 <gartral> most certainly
08:06:02 <gartral> stupid wifi >.>
08:11:47 <Alberth> hmm, you mean at the right of the bus station?
08:12:04 <Alberth> that's a bridge
08:12:24 <gartral> I know that, i mean at wuntown
08:14:15 * Alberth has no problems removing tram tracks there
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08:16:00 <Wolf01> hello
08:16:07 <Terkhen> hi Wolf01
08:22:18 <Alberth> gartral:
08:22:40 <Alberth> gartral: hmm, may be you have paused the game?
08:25:11 <Terkhen> this would be easier if we knew the exact error message you are getting
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08:37:58 <gartral> Terkhen: nvm, i think its letting me work now becuase some time has passed.. i give up.. the subsidry is long gone
08:44:29 <gartral>
08:45:35 <Alberth> the best tactic is to build stations as soon as possible, then do any landscaping :)
08:45:46 <Terkhen> ^
08:51:45 * andythenorth wonders if there will be easter eggs in trunk this year?
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09:25:43 <Pikka> that's torn it
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09:31:44 <rebry> anyone know of an mod or something that could clarify a goal within the game?
09:31:53 <rebry> multiplayer
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09:41:20 <SpComb> build the most aesthetically pleasing and realistic rail network
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10:25:17 <rebry> SpComb that allways fails because of beauty != effective
10:26:01 <Alberth> but effective was not a goal by SpComb ;)
10:26:06 <Terkhen> some people play for creating effective networks, other people prefer to achieve something else
10:26:12 <Terkhen> that's the problem with setting goals :)
10:26:52 <Terkhen> to my knowledge there is no public patch / library that does goals and has been actually released
10:27:07 <Terkhen> from what I know it might be possible to do something on these lines with the admin network
10:27:51 <Terkhen> there are some patches that implement goals in the server with more or less success, but they have been rarely released
10:30:09 <Alberth> alternatively, you can ponder the question 'why can you not have fun without a goal?' :)
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11:07:58 <rebry> anyone know a good weight multiplyer for the NARS?
11:10:03 <Alberth> depends on the kind of effect you want to have, and the terrain. Ie most likely everybody plays with his own setting
11:10:34 <Alberth> I don't play with NARS, but I have tried up to 10 :)
11:11:01 <Alberth> simplest approach is to do a few tests
11:11:52 <Alberth> ie build a long steep hill, a train with some loaded wagons, (coal or so), and see what happens
11:13:04 <Alberth> you can also change hill steepness if you like
11:13:31 <rebry> oh
11:13:48 <andythenorth_> rebry: I use 6
11:14:19 <rebry> ill try out 6 then :)
11:14:29 <rebry> how does the steepness affect the train?
11:14:52 <Alberth> rebry: you seem to think that everybody plays the same game. They don't, everybody tunes his configuration to his liking, and focuses on type of construction that he likes (big networks, realistic networks, effective networks, etc)
11:15:32 <Alberth> steepness is how steep one tile up is for the engine. You won't see a graphical difference though
11:18:26 <rebry> allright
11:18:36 <rebry> ill try it out and see if i find a good number :)
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11:39:19 <andythenorth_> how interestink
11:43:07 <Pikka> ees eet though?
11:44:43 * andythenorth_ has been redrawing buildinks more in ttd style
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11:46:55 <Pikka> ooh
11:46:59 <Pikka> interestink
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11:54:07 <andythenorth_> less realistic == better
11:54:09 <andythenorth_> I knew this
11:54:20 <andythenorth_> but not when I drew some of these sprites
12:01:34 <Alberth> that makes toyland the ultimate climate :)
12:04:05 <Pikka> toyland is highly realistic
12:09:35 <andythenorth_> new (unfinished)
12:09:41 <andythenorth_> old:
12:12:44 <Pikka> nice :)
12:14:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i like that it's darker now
12:14:50 <dihedral> oi
12:15:26 <andythenorth_> it's nothing like the RL version any more
12:15:28 <andythenorth_> which is fine
12:16:03 <andythenorth_>
12:16:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it's more important that each industry has a distinct colour
12:16:58 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: that's....tricky ;)
12:17:03 <andythenorth_> 44 industries...
12:17:18 <andythenorth_> colour + distinctive building shape is more achievable
12:17:43 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but "distinct shape" is kinda counteracted by having different layouts
12:17:43 <andythenorth_> or do you mean 'a colour, instead of an absence of colour' ? :)
12:17:52 <Eddi|zuHause> so it's a weak distinguishment
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12:31:05 <andythenorth> Pikka: you think FISH ships should be slower, or faster?
12:31:20 <Pikka> slower, then faster
12:31:28 <Pikka> I know it's not necessarily "realistic"
12:31:49 <Pikka> but I think faster ships as time goes by is what players might expect
12:31:54 <andythenorth> I quite like faster then slower :P
12:32:04 <andythenorth> some of the steam ships might be rather speedy
12:32:20 <andythenorth> (if 23mph counts as 'speedy')
12:32:35 <Pikka> yes
12:32:48 <Pikka> like I said, not necessarily realistic :P
12:33:01 * Alberth ponders currents
12:33:15 <andythenorth> wind
12:33:19 * Pikka ponders raisins
12:33:27 <andythenorth> Water Types!
12:33:31 <Pikka> yes
12:33:41 <andythenorth> might be easier than roadtypes
12:33:48 <Pikka> might not
12:34:00 <andythenorth> more bits free in map if I remember rightly
12:34:07 <Pikka> also, winds, could be date/location based... "semirandom"... D:
12:34:32 * andythenorth thinks prevailing wind should be random per map
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12:34:45 <Pikka> good luck with that :D
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12:35:03 <Alberth> andythenorth: then you need to draw more mills
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12:39:54 <dihedral> anybody know a good firewall distro?
12:40:55 <Alberth> openBSD :p
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12:50:29 <dihedral> lol
12:57:35 <peter1138> or debian, if you wanted linux
13:01:09 <ccfreak2k> pfSense if you are using a regular computer instead of an embedded device.
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13:05:46 <dihedral> vm in esxi - pfsense has no decent vmware-tools support
13:07:05 <ccfreak2k> You're right, but why would you be running a firewall in a virtual machine anyway?
13:11:01 <dihedral> could that not be obvious?
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13:11:59 <dihedral> i rent a dedicated server with esx running on it and a) need a router for a subnet and b) want a firewall for all vm's running on the esx host
13:12:32 <dihedral> right now i do everything manually on an ubuntu 10.04
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13:13:09 <dihedral> :-)
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13:19:12 <Pikka> goodnight children
13:19:18 <dihedral> clearos looks interesting
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13:38:26 <Eddi|zuHause> <-- they tried wagon-drifting, but it doesn't quite work with only two axles :p
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15:06:01 <ZirconiumX> Hello all
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15:55:49 <ZirconiumX> Hello Alberth
15:56:30 <Alberth> hello
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16:26:06 <andythenorth> it's a sunny day in the capital of anti-tesco riots
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17:08:56 <peter1138> for the germans...
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17:23:47 <Markk> Not for Swiss people? :(
17:23:55 <Markk> And for people from Österreich.
17:24:29 <peter1138> if they want to pretend they're german...
17:30:46 <__ln__>
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17:31:29 <glx> __ln__: lol
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17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22374 /trunk/src/lang/english_US.txt:
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by Rubidium
17:45:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovenian - 32 changes by
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17:52:22 * andythenorth is 21 commits away from FIRS 2k
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17:53:36 <Alberth> quickly, fix some bugs!
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17:55:32 <andythenorth> :(
17:55:37 <andythenorth> there are indeed some
17:56:37 <andythenorth> coincidentally there are 21 open tickets for FIRS 0.7
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18:19:17 * andythenorth can hear sirens
18:19:23 <andythenorth> maybe there's another riot starting
18:20:10 <DanMacK> What's with the rioting?
18:21:09 <andythenorth> hot time, summer in the city...
18:21:19 <andythenorth> it's all about Tesco
18:21:24 <DanMacK> back of my neck getting dirty and gritty...
18:22:04 <andythenorth> more sirens
18:22:08 <andythenorth> how exciting
18:22:15 <andythenorth> no riots in TTD :P
18:22:30 * DanMacK starts coding a new disaster
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19:03:30 <Chris_Booth> hi
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20:22:02 <Wolf01> 'nighty night
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20:54:41 <teggi> servers
20:54:49 <teggi> oh
20:54:50 <teggi> durr.
20:55:03 * andythenorth ponders
20:55:37 * andythenorth is playing a FIRS game with limited RVs
20:55:49 <andythenorth> some of the player feedback about supplies now makes more sense
20:56:04 <andythenorth> FIRS should ship with some small trucks included by default :P
20:58:28 <Terkhen> hmm... but that is not the responsibility of FIRS
20:59:17 <DanMacK> True...
20:59:40 <DanMacK> FIRST (FIRS Trucks)
21:00:13 <andythenorth> Terkhen: I know ;)
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21:15:37 <V453000> andythenorth: rather improve the supplying mechanism ;)
21:16:02 <andythenorth> maybe
21:16:14 <andythenorth> but that would be in the direction you suggested
21:16:33 <andythenorth> perhaps
21:17:06 <andythenorth> would that make a difference to which vehicle type is best for supplies?
21:20:12 <Terkhen> what direction?
21:22:09 <andythenorth> something like 'higher production increases requirement for supplies'
21:23:14 <V453000> it would make quite a difference, because it would probably make normal 30t wagons/vehicles reasonably useful
21:24:10 <V453000> where now there really is just smaller -> better
21:24:13 <andythenorth> meaning that trains become default for delivering supplies?
21:24:59 <V453000> well, if you need X amount of supplies delivered, you will use some "normal" trains probably, instead of just lowest capacity possible
21:26:49 <andythenorth> bed time
21:26:54 <andythenorth> good night ;)
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21:31:58 <Terkhen> good night
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23:33:24 <Pikka> mentlegen
23:39:04 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: "It works just fine in my experience." <-- i have seen pictures that tell other stories
23:39:24 <Pikka> Eddi; if you keep hitting the "grow" button in the scenario editor, that's what happens
23:39:36 <Pikka> but if you just play the game with naturally growing towns, it doesn't happen
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23:44:00 <Eddi|zuHause> Pikka: and in a "city" with large growth factor?
23:44:43 <Eddi|zuHause> just because the problem is not visible in some situations, doesn't mean it doesn't exist
23:46:30 <Pikka> not in a city with large growth factor as far as I've seen, eddi, except during generation (and then it's not serious, all it does is highlight the fact that that town won't grow much)
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23:52:44 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm fairly convinced that a "proper" approach would be better
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23:53:22 <Eddi|zuHause> that is: a newgrf callback should be able to tell the town to stop or accelerate the growth
23:53:48 <Eddi|zuHause> and then some variables provided like size, produced cargo, received cargo, ...
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23:54:58 <Pikka> sure
23:55:45 <Pikka> although that would mean a whole new feature, since we currently can't do anything with towns at all