IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-22
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00:18:05 <pikka> its quite a coincidence that a company called explosia should be manufacturing explosives, though :)
00:26:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure they made up the name first and then thought about what product they could sell :p
00:26:30 <Eddi|zuHause> some of the early electrics look really cute :) www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/2806.jpg
00:28:31 <Eddi|zuHause> engine is called "EG 503", so it seems to be the 3rd engine designed for cargo transport for the prussian state railway (1911)
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06:28:17 <andythenorth> time for some game-making
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07:15:35 <planetmaker> what a rare guest :-)
07:16:58 <andythenorth> anyone fancy patching me a development tool?
07:17:52 <andythenorth> 'when funding industries, cycle layout number, starting at 1, increase by 1 for each instance built'
07:18:00 <andythenorth> instead of random :P
07:18:41 <planetmaker> that's not patching but writing in the first place
07:18:57 <planetmaker> or you modify the game, too which is in this instance IMHO not desireable
07:19:56 <Terkhen> andythenorth: I think that would get confusing if the game was not able to build one or more of the layouts
07:21:08 <andythenorth> although you just revealed another use for this ;)
07:21:15 <andythenorth> testing layout stuff is a PITA
07:21:36 <Terkhen> what does PITA means?
07:22:11 <andythenorth> how do I prove that a specific layout number is not allowed to be built
07:22:20 <andythenorth> e.g. if it's date dependent
07:22:59 <Terkhen> I could change that old log industry opening and closure patch to show the built layout in the log too
07:23:12 <andythenorth> I never figured out how to use that :o
07:23:51 <Terkhen> the patch still applies, I am using it to test opengfx industries
07:24:00 <Terkhen> let me see if I can add layout information to it
07:27:56 <andythenorth> Terkhen: in case I waste your time - the actual use case here is testing an industry with n layouts
07:28:01 <andythenorth> to see which ones are broken graphically
07:28:16 <andythenorth> which means a lot of industry funding ;)
07:28:33 <andythenorth> I guess I just have to click many times
07:29:34 <Alberth> is there a solution you have in mind?
07:30:10 <planetmaker> Alberth: a solution would be an extensio to the "fund industry window" which allows selection of a layout by number
07:30:34 <Terkhen> hmmm... I see, my patch would only help to test which ones never appear in normal generation
07:30:56 <andythenorth> Alberth: a hack would be to select the layout number from a cacheed, incrementing var
07:31:00 <andythenorth> instead of at random
07:31:14 <planetmaker> or a adv. setting which is active with newgrf dev tools only: build_layout_number
07:31:23 <planetmaker> accessible via console
07:31:24 <andythenorth> I did also wonder about a different patch - for players
07:31:38 <andythenorth> planetmaker: console command would be v. good
07:31:43 <Alberth> planetmaker: yeah, like the newobjects :)
07:31:58 <planetmaker> yes, like views would be awesome
07:32:04 * Alberth is missing hgtk from fredora15
07:32:04 <planetmaker> that way it also could be exposed to the player
07:32:33 <andythenorth> I was thinking of something else earlier
07:32:52 <Alberth> anybody with 'hgtk' at your system? can you tell me what package it is in?
07:33:07 <planetmaker> hm, I just improved OpenGFX while trying to extend OpenGFX+Industries :-)
07:33:21 <andythenorth> for random, if we patched so the layout number was selected when player clicks 'fund' window.....then we could a further patch to show tile layout on map
07:34:29 <Alberth> planetmaker: wrong directory? :)
07:34:30 <planetmaker> andythenorth: how is it called: the tower of a mine which cables run through in order to lift up the material?
07:34:55 <planetmaker> Alberth: not really :-) I just wondered about (missing) animation. And a few pixels changed fixed it nicely
07:35:18 <planetmaker> like: start A. notice B. notice C, notice D, fix D
07:36:38 <andythenorth> planetmaker: depends exactly what you
07:36:52 <planetmaker> look at the gold mine
07:37:03 <planetmaker> the building there
07:38:12 <andythenorth> headstocks probably
07:38:24 <andythenorth> the igg site I linked is very good on uk terminology for industries
07:39:46 <planetmaker> "Förderturm" in German
07:48:03 <andythenorth> it's a nice day in the UK
07:48:21 <andythenorth> one of the things I like about India - no guilt about wasting a sunny day inside coding :P
07:48:31 <planetmaker> andythenorth: wrt snowyness and breaking compatibility: I really don't see how adding another varaction2 which has the sprites depend on terrain_type to break any compatibility
07:48:52 <planetmaker> you'll only break that, if you change the layout - something I don't see the necessity when adding snow
07:49:12 <planetmaker> nor actually the possibility really
07:52:31 <andythenorth> planetmaker: it comes down to an argument about 'broken'
07:52:41 <andythenorth> are garbled graphics 'broken' ?
07:52:50 <planetmaker> that's nothing to do with snow then
07:53:11 <planetmaker> either it's broken with and without. Or you could all snow
07:53:54 <andythenorth> the issue *is* conflated currently with the ground greeble I'm adding
07:54:01 <andythenorth> but that could be ignored for explanation
07:54:21 <andythenorth> so many industries have TILE_CONCRETE or TILE_COBBLE or similar in layout
07:54:45 <andythenorth> meanwhile some industries are currently sliced in such a way that snow can't be added to ground around industry
07:54:52 <planetmaker> yes. And you could - in theory - just add to them a snowy version and be done
07:55:26 <planetmaker> don't confuse tile layout with industry layout
07:55:53 <andythenorth> I have to reslice the industry to be able to provide snow on the ground
07:56:08 <andythenorth> some of the reslicing means the TILE_CONCRETE etc has to become TILE_MY_INDUSTRY
07:56:59 <andythenorth> which leaves older layouts garbled wrt graphics
07:57:08 <andythenorth> not broken technically, but to player it looks so
07:57:46 * andythenorth looks for an example
07:57:46 <planetmaker> [09:56] andythenorth some of the reslicing means the TILE_CONCRETE etc has to become TILE_MY_INDUSTRY <-- I guess I don't see where snow would require this
08:01:49 <Alberth> is there some industry I can test my hack with, or do you want to do that?
08:04:19 <andythenorth> Alberth: FIRS dairy is as good as any other industry to
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08:06:51 <Alberth> 6 bio refineries and 1 bauxite mine?
08:09:23 <andythenorth> Alberth: 4 biorefinery layouts ;)
08:11:15 <andythenorth> planetmaker: wrt snow tiles, maybe I got unlucky picking the dairy first
08:11:23 <andythenorth> other industries look to be sliced ok
08:11:32 <andythenorth> savegame bump for one industry is annoying
08:11:46 <andythenorth> although the issue remains conflated with adding detail to ground tiles
08:11:59 <andythenorth> which I might as well do, and might also need layout changes
08:16:31 <Alberth> bummer, the game outsmarted me :)
08:17:24 <andythenorth> Alberth: patch seems to build layouts 2, 4 and 6 in a reliable order
08:17:45 <Alberth> yeah, I increment the layout number also when testing a build
08:17:52 <Alberth> updated the patch, it works now
08:18:14 <Alberth> as bonus, it now also prints the layout it selects :)
08:18:36 <andythenorth> you know the newgrf debug shows layout number?
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08:19:49 <Alberth> I don't think I ever opened one of those windows :)
08:20:13 <Alberth> I leave that to lickable pixel creators :)
08:21:16 <andythenorth> Alberth: it now builds with layout ++ each time
08:21:20 <andythenorth> except it won't build layout 1
08:21:24 <andythenorth> I get layout 2 twice ;)
08:22:02 <Alberth> most likely layout 1 is not buildable there, then
08:22:30 <andythenorth> this needs a flat map for testing
08:24:16 <andythenorth> adding this to trunk - too big a pony?
08:24:29 <andythenorth> (with console command for enable / disable...)
08:25:25 <Alberth> extending the fund-industry window seems to me a more feasible direction in that case
08:26:14 <andythenorth> would that need to show each layout graphically?
08:26:39 <andythenorth> might have some usability issues :D
08:27:07 <andythenorth> unless it just shows one layout at a time
08:27:12 <andythenorth> with < > to cycle
08:27:36 <Alberth> I was thinking along the lines of the newobjects window
08:28:02 <Alberth> (and another one, that I seem to have lost from memory atm)
08:28:34 * andythenorth waves hand in direction of industry size ;)
08:28:41 <andythenorth> stations / objects show 1 tile
08:28:50 <andythenorth> industry layouts might be 8x8 easily
08:29:11 <planetmaker> objects may be larger than 1x1, too
08:29:22 <planetmaker> so the same thing applies
08:29:29 <planetmaker> purchase list sprites ;-)
08:29:48 <andythenorth> airports is closer
08:30:17 <Alberth> I wrote that patch too, but it is silly atm, as we have exactly one layout for them
08:30:33 <andythenorth> I don't like scaling much...for reasons that won't survive an argument :(
08:31:13 <Alberth> I can understand that feeling
08:31:29 <Alberth> but then we need custom sprites for 'big' things
08:31:31 <andythenorth> original game never scaled anything (apart from zoom out on main map)
08:31:41 <andythenorth> we don't scale planes or ships in buy menu
08:31:47 <andythenorth> some authors tried, but it sucks
08:32:16 <Alberth> the problem I experienced with airports is that bigger airport do not look bigger
08:32:48 <Alberth> perhaps the + and - scaling should be part of the window
08:32:50 <andythenorth> cycling them with < > is fine imo
08:32:59 <planetmaker> hehe... NoCAB uses the turbo train to haul coal :-P
08:33:15 <andythenorth> I would rather see things at 1:1
08:33:37 <planetmaker> preview in 1:1 is not really feasible with things bigger than 1 tile
08:34:00 <planetmaker> unless you re-write how such previews work. But then for stations in the first place
08:34:51 * Ammler doesn't like the different scaling of the airports either
08:37:06 <andythenorth> some airports are previewed 1:1
08:37:57 <andythenorth> but it's not awesome either
08:38:41 <Ammler> alternative would be that the bigger airports would show only a part of it
08:38:52 <andythenorth> it's a tricky problem :)
08:39:02 <andythenorth> I would show all of it
08:39:11 <andythenorth> but that's because my screen is big enough :)
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08:57:10 <Hyronymus> thaanks for the repoty
08:57:21 <Hyronymus> if I now learn NOT to click on links in chatzilla
09:01:06 <peter1138> Crazy that people still have chatzilla...
09:03:36 <Hyronymus> what's the alternative, peter1138
09:03:53 <planetmaker> xchat or ychat possibly
09:04:18 <peter1138> oh, seems that it's a firefox plugin these days too
09:04:38 <peter1138> it used to only be part of the behemoth of the netscape suite
09:05:12 <Hyronymus> nah, I even got it to run in a Firefox tab
09:05:23 <Hyronymus> offciially not supported but it works
09:05:43 <planetmaker> Hyronymus: but... what's wrong with clicking on links? Works like a charm here
09:05:56 <Hyronymus> not if you have it running in a tab
09:06:11 <Hyronymus> then it replaces the chatzilla tab with the page linked to
09:06:38 <planetmaker> that's annoying then ;-)
09:06:57 <peter1138> i never did understand the reasoning that decided a webbrowser should have an irc client
09:07:48 <Hyronymus> I used to have mIRC when it was abandonware
09:07:56 <planetmaker> why should a text editor have a "psychologist", mail reader, ...?
09:07:57 <Alberth> I lost understanding when they decided they needed a programming language for reading text
09:10:17 <peter1138> 1) "abandonware" doesn't exist
09:10:35 <peter1138> 2) mirc could wasn't ever such
09:30:39 <yorick> Hyronymus: even if you use the middle mouse button?
09:32:50 <Hyronymus> hah, that works yorick
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09:44:18 <ZirconiumX> or some other unspellable word
09:47:06 * ZirconiumX wonders where the world would be without vi/m
09:49:32 <ZirconiumX> probably ok without it
09:51:51 <ZirconiumX> can you do 'for' loops in squirrel
09:54:47 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: some children in Uganda would be disappointed without vim
09:56:29 <ZirconiumX> vi is rather old - I know some neolithic man who find it basic :p
09:57:07 <ZirconiumX> Alberth: Ah good point
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11:06:05 <flitz> ah the gui-guru, perfect :)
11:06:27 <flitz> I had a neat idea but I came around to think that it doesn't work:
11:07:37 <flitz> when defining two widgets within a NWID_SELECTION, can those two have different height ? so that when I switch the displayed plane the gui is automatically resized according to the plane being used
11:09:07 <flitz> for example: I have two panels within the selection, one is supposed to be 100 in height, the other one only 10. But the gui is never able to resize according to the smaller panel it will always use the minimal height of the larger one
11:10:39 <planetmaker> it would be not really nice to have the window re-size just because you chose one option
11:11:06 <planetmaker> actually I'd consider it out-right annoying
11:11:07 <Alberth> flitz: no, but you can specify a size change in ResizeWindow()
11:11:48 <Alberth> planetmaker: but we do it all the time in the picker windows, financial window, group gui
11:13:51 <planetmaker> but well, yes, you're right
11:13:56 <planetmaker> I guess it depends :-)
11:13:58 <flitz> I think I will just use an external window than instead of integrating the two things into one gui
11:14:10 <Alberth> flitz: NWID_SELECTION is like the tabbed pages in a tab-book, ie display one of N pages
11:14:10 <planetmaker> I just thought of uses where it'd be annoying like a game configuration
11:14:39 <flitz> the idea was to have a vehicle list displayed in a matrix and on button clicking turning that matrix into a single panel for creating a new vehicle
11:15:08 <Alberth> planetmaker: picker = select a station or airport where the captured cargoes are displayed at the bottom
11:15:56 <Alberth> flitz: what makes you think I am not interested in the matrix while making a new vehicles?
11:16:55 <Alberth> Two windows are likely much better :)
11:16:57 <flitz> I thought it not really necessary to view the matrix while creating a new one, but maybe you're right
11:17:12 <planetmaker> ah, that window :-)
11:17:39 <flitz> btw: with the station window I've found an instance of a gui that does exactly what I was trying to do, hm...
11:18:10 <planetmaker> flitz: the build train window w/o the depot matrix would miss quite some visual feedback
11:18:18 <Alberth> it uses ResizeWindow() :)
11:19:17 <flitz> just out of curiosity: ResizeWindow() would be applied to a window, that is the whole gui not a single widget, right ?
11:19:56 <flitz> planetmaker: idea is scrapped already ;)
11:22:10 <flitz> why doesn't it resize the other parts of the window ? e.g. in a station window if you click on ratings and the top panel stays the same size
11:23:08 <Alberth> careful calculation of the new size, normally
11:24:46 <Alberth> oh, station window is more blunt, it does this->ReInit();
11:25:45 <Alberth> ie 're-compute sizes and positions of the whole widget tree'
11:27:34 <Alberth> station_gui.cpp, line 1188
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13:41:56 <planetmaker> SmatZ: so if I understand that patch correctly, the idea is to create "virtual" ground sprites depending upon the (snow) density?
13:42:55 <Zuu> planetmaker: Nice to see that you as a side effect of testing NewGRFs also test AIs and provide feedback on them. :-)
13:43:39 <planetmaker> makes it easier :-)
13:43:50 <planetmaker> it's kinda like the "play me" button :-P
13:44:09 <Zuu> Yes - it's hard to play as quickly yourself as loading an AI and press fast forward. :-)
13:44:32 <planetmaker> and I'm really impressed by NoCAB... it's continuously performing well. One AI? 10 AI :-P
13:44:48 <SmatZ> planetmaker: the "blitter / virtual" part is needed to extract sprites from current sprites
13:45:03 <SmatZ> because openttd doesn't have overlay sprite that should be applied to "snowy ground" tile
13:45:09 <SmatZ> so I need to generate it
13:45:21 <planetmaker> couldn't they be added to openttd.grf instead?
13:45:24 <SmatZ> I generated it as a difference from "track on snow" and "snow"
13:45:34 <Zuu> Yes NoCAB is really good.
13:45:42 <planetmaker> so... kinda making the default railtypes full railtypes in that same sweep
13:45:43 <SmatZ> but then all current track newgrfs would need to add them too
13:45:57 <SmatZ> or they would be missing "track on half-snow / half-desert" tracks
13:46:25 <SmatZ> (it's rather 0/3, 1/3, 2/3, 3/3 snow, 0/2,1/2, 2/2 desert)
13:46:48 <planetmaker> Zuu: and it is now also fun to watch that several AIs build real train networks, and make use of more than just one transportation type
13:47:11 <Zuu> When I have aircraft disabled, Clueless is usually getting along well with NoCab, Otvi etc. utill the vehicle limit is reached. At the end NoCAB and AIs with a large diversity of vehicle types usually wins.
13:47:22 <planetmaker> I just wondered, SmatZ, about "why not provide those sprites" ;-)
13:47:31 <Zuu> planetmaker: Is that a feature request ;-)
13:47:41 <planetmaker> Zuu: certainly ;-)
13:47:59 <Zuu> You should then note that CluelessPlus contains a fairly empty rail.nut file :-)
13:48:18 <planetmaker> Zuu: actually there have been thoughts about shipping maybe one AI with the next major release...
13:48:39 <planetmaker> ... but that would require a) a competition and b) a sound testing of the one being shipped. Possibly a) and b) combined
13:49:12 <planetmaker> and it would require test rules and requirements. Maybe you have ideas about either :-)
13:49:40 <Zuu> Though, at the moment I don't forsee rail/air in CluelessPlus in a reasonable time.
13:50:18 <Zuu> I have though about making it reuse its stations more and improve the station building.
13:50:22 <planetmaker> I think cluelessPlus is doing well, but indeed meanwhile can't catch up anymore as it can't use rail
13:50:31 <planetmaker> trains are just very profitable
13:50:50 <planetmaker> I checked earlier a single train of NoCAB. 250k income per run
13:51:09 <planetmaker> (it was a moderate to long distant coal train with 4 cars)
13:51:41 <planetmaker> also, what NoCAB does well is the startup part. It's quick. Quicker than most AIs. That also gives it a head start
13:52:58 <Zuu> At some point there might be air/train, but it will have to be integrated with the rest of the AI.
13:53:29 <Zuu> An idea that I might explore is to make it re-organize its connections in later years. (still only road to start with)
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13:54:18 <Zuu> A bit similar to the pair optimizer in PaxLink, just that it has to also make sure it works with the infrastructure.
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14:12:32 <mib_lg8q0r> anyone here from germany?
14:13:06 <Alberth> some are, yes, but this is an english channel
14:13:25 <Alberth> anybody any experience with hgsvn ?
14:13:55 <mib_lg8q0r> exists there a german channel too?
14:18:32 <flitz> never heard of hgsvn, actually
14:19:19 <planetmaker> Ammler: might know about hgsvn, Alberth
14:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/2503.jpg <-- suggestion for alcohol transport wagon :p
14:22:58 <Alberth> nice one Eddi|zuHause :)
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14:29:58 <mib_lg8q0r> hallo Eddi|zuHause
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15:03:30 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r22357 /trunk/src/network/ (network_chat_gui.cpp network_gui.cpp): -Fix (r22345): crash when opening the chat box or company password input box
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15:14:27 <Ammler> Alberth: use hgsubversion
15:15:07 <Alberth> Thanks Ammler, I found that too, it seems to work better :)
15:15:43 <Ammler> hgsvn is quite depreciated, isn't?
15:16:23 <Ammler> hg.openttd.org should use hgsubversion :-)
15:19:32 <andythenorth_> Alberth: that layout patch is very useful thanks
15:19:38 <andythenorth_> although I'll probably lose it :(
15:19:53 <andythenorth_> I should maintain a patch queue, but I'm not disciplined enough
15:20:38 <Ammler> you need discipline for mq?
15:20:58 <Alberth> Ammler: they switched to 'Only (really) critical bugs will be fixed for now, please consider hgsubversion instead'
15:21:19 <andythenorth_> Ammler: it's one more thing to remember to do :(
15:22:47 <Alberth> for now, I will keep the patch around :)
15:23:51 <Ammler> mq has more than just a bit patch management, but you also should learn to use rebase :-)
15:24:21 <Ammler> it would make it much easier for you
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15:50:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22358 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: WC_TOOLBAR_MENU isn't the right name when its only used for client list popups
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15:52:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22359 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: pass client info pointers instead of the position to the client popup list's callbacks
15:53:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22360 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Codechange: use globally unique client id to mark the selected client instead of the position in the client list
15:53:55 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22361 /trunk/src/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: delete the client list popup when the client got removed (instead of previously selecting some other client)
15:54:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22362 /trunk/src/ (11 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: NetworkFindClientInfoFromClientID -> NetworkClientInfo::GetByClientID
15:54:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22363 /trunk/src/network/ (4 files): -Codechange: NetworkFindClientStateFromClientID -> NetworkClientSocket::GetByClientID
15:57:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22364 /trunk/src/network/ (network_client.cpp network_server.cpp): -Codechange: don't show the (unknown) client address in the client list at clients
15:59:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22365 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: add overload of NetworkServerKickOrBanIP using the ClientID, which later resolves the IP address to ban. This to consolidate the knowledge about resolving IP addresses
15:59:55 * ZirconiumX sympathises with planetmaker
16:00:03 <ZirconiumX> gcc is like that sometimes
16:00:07 <planetmaker> hm... nvm me asking. I think I see it
16:01:02 <Rubidium> you ought to use grep ;)
16:01:20 <planetmaker> good that we talked about it :-)
16:01:31 <planetmaker> Rubidium: but only, if I know what to look for
16:01:40 <planetmaker> but the first line was... quite funky :-P
16:01:59 * ZirconiumX still doesn't know why people do | grep -v grep
16:02:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22366 /trunk/src/network/ (network_func.h network_server.cpp network_server.h): -Codechange: make GetClientIP a function of the server's ClientSocket, after all the Socket is the bit that's associated with the network
16:02:42 <planetmaker> and I missed the first hunk in that file
16:03:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22367 /trunk/src/network/ (network_admin.cpp network_admin.h network_server.cpp): -Codechange: send ClientSockets instead of ClientInfos to the admin "core" as they send IP addresses to the admin "bots"
16:04:02 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22368 /trunk/src/network/ (5 files): -Codechange: move the IP address field from the ClientInfo to ClientSocket
16:05:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22369 /trunk/src/network/ (network_admin.cpp network_server.cpp):
16:05:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: allocate ClientInfo when needed, i.e. don't allocate it for clients
16:05:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: that are there to just get a list of companies. This means that these short
16:05:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lived clients won't be seen by the admin network in their client queries anymore
16:08:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22370 /trunk/src/network/ (core/tcp_game.h network_server.cpp):
16:08:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange/fix: keep better accounting of the order in which clients joined:
16:08:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: * Clients can't be starved from joining the game
16:08:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: * Clients will see the amount of clients actually waiting in front of them, instead of the amount of waiting clients in total
16:10:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22371 /trunk/src/saveload/saveload.cpp:
16:10:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#4596]: make sure saving has completely and utterly finished before
16:10:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: starting a new one. Otherwise you could start a save, which would be marked as
16:10:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: done by the previous save stopping and then yet another save could be started...
16:10:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: and that could create a deadlock
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16:21:13 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: grep -v grep is for omitting the 'grep' command itself, eg in ps aux | grep bash
16:30:39 <SmatZ> wtf @ people voluntarily being crucified
16:31:31 <Eddi|zuHause> some extremely religious people really are crazy...
16:32:07 <Alberth> some are willing to kill themselves :p
16:34:47 <ZirconiumX> Islam: I have nothing against it, but would 'God' want you to get a bomb and blow yourself up, and kill other, innocent people
16:35:19 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: how do you come from "crucifying" to "islam"?
16:36:02 <ZirconiumX> *Alberth's comment
16:36:05 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: 1) it's not only the islam, and 2) it's not all Muslims
16:36:24 <SmatZ> there are many ways to explain various holy books, including that way
16:36:26 <ZirconiumX> I didn't say it was all muslims
16:36:32 <andythenorth_> better things to do ;)
16:36:40 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: but you implied it, which is bad
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16:37:05 <Eddi|zuHause> change of topic: www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/2144.jpg
16:37:37 <ZirconiumX> I am not a religious person: I'm an atheist
16:37:44 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: looks very fast :p
16:37:45 <Eddi|zuHause> (LBE doubledecker train in 1936)
16:37:55 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: nice :) would be nice if it didn't make that much smoke though :)
16:38:27 <Alberth> I prefer the alcohol wagon though :)
16:38:53 * Yexo looks if there are any interesting issues on fs
16:39:18 <SmatZ> Yexo: FS#4592, unless Rubidium is working on it :)
16:42:25 <ZirconiumX> the nuances of UN*X
16:43:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: wikipedia says the track Hamburg-Lübeck, where these trains were running, was equipped for 120km/h, so the train should have a similar speed
16:44:01 <ZirconiumX> the "four point twoeth Berkeley Software Distribution" and "System V release four point two"
16:45:04 <Alberth> ZirconiumX: what's the probem, unix is just a collection of agreed interfaces, there are several implementations around
16:45:36 <ZirconiumX> just 4.2BSD is easy to write - but not easy to say
16:46:49 <Alberth> who speak any more if you can do everything by internet :p
16:48:18 * planetmaker wonders if ZirconiumX has a random comment function implemented and set to loop
16:48:46 * ZirconiumX speaks more random gibberish
16:48:47 <Eddi|zuHause> PS: another specialty of these trains was the push-pull service.
16:53:16 <Yexo> is FS#4592 reproducible on a single system or do I need to get a second computer?
16:55:13 <SmatZ> Yexo: one computer, two openttd windows
16:55:39 <Yexo> SmatZ: and how to keep the list open and close down a company?
16:55:53 <Yexo> with reset_company / stop_ai it's easy to remove a company
16:56:08 <Yexo> but if I do that in one window I can't keep the dropdown list open in the other one
16:56:27 <SmatZ> Yexo: when I alt+tab out of the window while the list of companies is shown, it will crash
16:56:38 * ZirconiumX is confused / gets smacked in face
16:56:41 <SmatZ> eg. press the "vehicles" button, hold LMB, alt+tab to server
16:57:01 <Yexo> so for that you don't need to stop a company or somethign like that?
16:57:55 <SmatZ> you have to "reset_company 1"
16:58:03 <Chris_Booth> isn't the chat bug on FS?
16:58:05 <SmatZ> it doesn't crash always
16:58:15 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: it's fixed
16:58:25 <Yexo> alt-tab doesn't work while I hold LMB
17:00:05 <Yexo> console still reacts to keyboard while I hold the mouse, so "stop_ai" in the console works
17:00:16 <Yexo> I can see the entry becoming empty, but I can't reproduce a crash
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17:01:04 <SmatZ> indeed, I can't crash it anymore as well
17:01:16 <SmatZ> and valgrind seems to be happy too
17:01:27 <Yexo> the stacktrace on FS shows ShowVehicleListWindowLocal, but there is a check for an invalid company in that function
17:01:35 <Chris_Booth> ooh did anything ever happen on company colours?
17:02:46 <Chris_Booth> close the task then?
17:03:02 <SmatZ> Chris_Booth: what task?
17:03:14 <Chris_Booth> the FS task I submited
17:03:59 <Chris_Booth> shame just a line that has a heavier wieght would help
17:04:11 <Yexo> what about the idea of adding the company icon in front of the text in the chat?
17:05:00 <Chris_Booth> that would also help Companyx(player)
17:05:03 <Yexo> <Chris_Booth> yes <- so, good idea? if so, the task shouldn't be closed
17:05:33 <Chris_Booth> shall I add that to comments then?
17:06:26 <Chris_Booth> ooh <company name><player name> has already been added in comments
17:06:44 <Yexo> SmatZ: looks like a release build
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17:12:46 <SmatZ> Yexo: seems to be somehow reproducible
17:13:21 <SmatZ> alt+tab back, click first company
17:14:53 <SmatZ> Yexo: seems it doesn't crash when the client is a spectator
17:15:19 <Yexo> one of the vehicle lists or the company list?
17:16:17 <SmatZ> Yexo: seems to be affected by that "show full / small vehicle lists setting"
17:17:14 <SmatZ> adv settings -> interface -> show advanced veh lists -> own company
17:17:32 <Yexo> I had it on all companies
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18:43:21 <singpolyma> I'm trying to find a download for version 1.0.4 (or one that is lanplay compatible with it) for OSX
18:43:53 <andythenorth> singpolyma: I might be wrong, but I don't think there is an easy OS X download for that version
18:44:01 <andythenorth> have you searched tt forums?
18:44:08 <Terkhen> that's quite old, and there were no official binaries of OS X for 1.0.x
18:44:13 <andythenorth> some people were posting binaries they'd compiled
18:44:29 <andythenorth> OS X support was recently restored ;)
18:44:52 <singpolyma> Well, I could alternately upgrade all my Ubuntu systems, but trying to install the deb from the website gives an error because there is no openttd-data for the new version
18:44:52 <Eddi|zuHause> singpolyma: all your lan friends should update to 1.1.0
18:45:58 <Eddi|zuHause> singpolyma: uninstall the versions from ubuntu-repo before installing the deb from the website
18:46:17 <singpolyma> Eddi|zuHause: :( ok, I'll try that. Pretty suboptimal
18:47:05 <Eddi|zuHause> singpolyma: complain to your package maintainer
18:47:12 <andythenorth> singpolyma: would you be confident compiling your own?
18:47:33 <singpolyma> well, why are the packages on from the website not compatible with the ones in distro?
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18:48:04 <Eddi|zuHause> singpolyma: how should we know? our packages were there first, your distro decided to make things difficult
18:48:05 <singpolyma> andythenorth: Sure, I could compile my own, but that's an even worse solution. uninstalling and reinstalling on ubuntu seems to be working
18:48:20 * andythenorth can't help with ubuntu
18:48:26 <Vinnie_nl> hello, are there any developers around?
18:50:20 <singpolyma> There seems to be both Replaces and Conflicts for openttd-data from the official packages. I think if it were just replaces that would probably work
18:50:36 * andythenorth starts on another big FIRS redraw :P
18:50:43 <andythenorth> singpolyma: good news ;)
18:51:58 <Eddi|zuHause> why does NekoMaster always strike me as the "has absolutely no clue" type?
18:52:10 <singpolyma> oh, Ihad to install openttd-opengfx manually again. now it's working :)
18:52:15 <Vinnie_nl> My game crashed on joining the openttdcoop server with r22355. Is this already a known issue?
18:52:23 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause he strikes me more as 'drinks, smokes weed, sometimes makes sense, sometimes makes no sense' type of guy
18:52:39 <peter1138> is it cos he has no clue?
18:52:41 <Terkhen> Vinnie_nl: no way to tell with just that info
18:52:50 <andythenorth> sometimes someone seems to have hit neko with a clue stick
18:52:55 <andythenorth> he's made some good suggestions
18:53:24 <andythenorth> even a stopped clock tells the correct time twice a day?
18:53:37 <Terkhen> check the required files when posting a new task
18:53:52 <Terkhen> those files are the information we need, attach them to the new task
18:54:23 <Eddi|zuHause> "Amazon denies cloud-outage has to do with Skynet attack" :p
18:54:53 <andythenorth> some people don't like TTD paper mill. But it's actually quite nicely drawn
18:55:43 <Eddi|zuHause> (apparently, in the terminator TV series it was said skynet turns on mankind on the 21st april 2011)
18:56:20 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think it doesn't really fit FIRS style, though
18:56:34 <andythenorth> it's compressed in scale
18:56:44 <andythenorth> but the art is good
18:57:03 <andythenorth> I'm looking at the shading to improve the FIRS textile mill
18:57:46 <Eddi|zuHause> there are very few things in TTD where the art is "not good", but in comparison with some newgrfs, it pales occasionally
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19:53:53 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22372 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r22364) [FS#4598]: segmentation fault when trying to get the server's IP
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20:48:30 <dihedral> Rubidium, seems like you are on a commit-trip today ;-)
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20:58:26 <andythenorth> making FIRS daylength patch compatible is upside down thinking yes / no?
20:58:38 <andythenorth> daylength patches shouldn't be breaking industry code
21:06:08 <dihedral> "daylength compatible" does that not depend on the implementation of the daylength?
21:08:20 <Alberth> not if you define a correct daylength patch as 'working with current industry newgrfs'
21:13:01 <KOPOBA> why russian fonts in ottd not bold? and is there any way to fix it?
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21:14:02 <Yexo> KOPOBA: the default sprite font doesn't have all glyphs for russian, so openttd will use a system font
21:14:07 <Yexo> you can change the font in openttd.cfg
21:16:12 <KOPOBA> Yexo there is no such file =\
21:17:20 <Yexo> KOPOBA: see readme.txt for info on how to find it
21:24:46 <KOPOBA> Yexo graphicsset = "original_windows" can you advise what to set here?
21:25:08 <Yexo> you can modify that in-game
21:25:29 <Yexo> if you don't have the original graphics, leave the empty (graphicsset =) and openttd will chose an available one for you
21:26:24 <KOPOBA> Yexo this will make russian letters bold? =)
21:26:41 <KOPOBA> what i must change in cfg?
21:27:25 <Yexo> small_font / medium_font / large_font
21:28:08 <Yexo> yes, that means openttd will pick the sprite font if possible, otherwise it'll just pick a random available font on your system
21:29:06 <Chris_Booth> read the for more information
21:29:49 <Chris_Booth> Yexo you are very patient. saying the same thing 3 or 4 different ways
21:30:19 <Yexo> depending on my mood, yes ;)
21:35:06 <Eddi|zuHause> ... wasn't there a font picker window patch?
21:35:34 <Yexo> yes, but it's only a patch
21:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause> so what's missing?
21:36:10 <Terkhen> there was a more recent attempt a few months ago
21:36:45 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: that patch is against r11643
21:37:15 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, so it's not window-class-and-whatnot-ified
21:37:32 <Alberth> before having bigger fonts was useful :)
21:37:52 <Yexo> you could still have different fonts
21:37:57 <Yexo> not everyone wants them bigger
21:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> he doesn't take being corrected very well :p
21:42:38 <Terkhen> it would be nice to have that feature; editing cfg files it not very intuitive
21:43:11 <Yexo> it's too bad that person in that topic you linked to just left and never finished his patch
21:44:09 <Eddi|zuHause> these americans have crazily long trains: www.eisenbahnstiftung.de/bg/pics/1924.jpg
21:44:13 <Chris_Booth> you need some kind person to take the patch up again
21:44:39 * planetmaker needs sleep and wishes a good night
21:44:41 <Chris_Booth> fuck me how can that train even move
21:44:45 <Terkhen> Chris_Booth: are you that person? :P
21:44:48 <Terkhen> good night planetmaker
21:45:18 <Chris_Booth> openttd is to complex for me
21:46:22 <Eddi|zuHause> it's totally missing some really complex features...
21:48:03 <Chris_Booth> none majic depots
21:48:36 <Chris_Booth> openttd depots are a major hate of mine
21:51:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r22373 /trunk/src/vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix (r19955) (r20041) [FS#4592]: crash when clicking a removed company in the vehiclelist dropdowns
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