IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-13
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06:46:26 <andythenorth> it would be really useful to have some magic that returned the correct slope-aware ground tile to an action 2
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07:40:49 <Markk> Neat to have the readme so handy.
07:59:52 <LordAro> hi Terkhen, see the image above?
08:00:16 <LordAro> Markk: yeah, except you can't view the readme yet ;) thats just the window...
08:02:58 <Markk> LordAro: Nah, just a minor issue. :D
08:03:11 <LordAro> i was wondering about the colour, and the size - it seems a little small, and the colour seems too similar to other windows, thoughts?
08:03:45 <Terkhen> IMO it should have the same color than the NewGRF window
08:04:05 <Terkhen> and, if the lenght of the readme allows it, the window should resize to show it completely
08:06:09 <LordAro> so the colour is fine, and it needs some fancy auto-window-resize when viewing readme is implemented
08:20:22 <planetmaker> LordAro: you probably want to make the default height quite a bit larger
08:20:28 <planetmaker> and maybe the width also
08:20:46 <planetmaker> One can't read properly a text file in a micro-window ;-)
08:50:59 <LordAro> planetmaker: suggestions? it is currently 400x140 (same as news history gui)
08:56:00 <Ammler> same size as default bananas window
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09:04:44 <Ammler> with should at least have space for 80-100 letters
09:09:17 <Terkhen> I don't think you should worry about window size until you can check how it looks when displaying real readmes
09:09:45 <LordAro> i like doing things in the wrong order :P
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09:11:00 <Terkhen> then you like doing things twice
09:12:16 <Terkhen> line 206: //View GRF readme <-- space between // and View
09:12:25 <Ammler> oh, I thought it is already working but early houses doesn't have a readme :-)
09:14:08 <LordAro> pfft, yeah, cos i'm that good at coding... :')
09:14:20 <Ammler> I just wanted to suggest another idea: limited support for rst, but then that is too early ;-)
09:14:47 <LordAro> far too early, and probably not covered by this patch :P
09:17:04 <LordAro> images in readmes is certainly a no-no IMHO
09:17:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: i thought the consensus was to implement opening a browser instead
09:18:38 <LordAro> g2g, back soon (maybe)
09:19:16 <Ammler> rst/markdown have no images support afaik do they?
09:22:49 <dihedral> where is that logic gate thread with the train counter? anybody got an idea?
09:27:31 <andythenorth> Yexo: is var 69 for industries a serious possibility?
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09:37:47 <andythenorth> industry probability at map gen is proportional to all other industries?
09:38:08 <andythenorth> so if some industries can't be built in say 1830, I'm going to get a lot more of the ones that can be built?
09:43:47 <andythenorth> seems to be the case anyway
09:43:54 <andythenorth> makes testing a bit...complex
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10:13:47 <Hirundo> LordAro: Make the WC_GRF_PARAMETERS -> WC_NEWGRF_PARAMETERS change a separate patch
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10:47:17 <George> Hi, Where can I read about about extended tile action 2?
10:48:06 <George> Searching tt-forums did not help :(
10:48:31 <George> Andy said me about it, but could not give the link ^(
10:50:17 <planetmaker> George, on frosch's user page in the openttd wiki
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10:55:19 <George> hm, would be nice. But why not to epand on vehicles too? ;)
10:55:57 <planetmaker> vehicles don't have ground sprites
10:56:55 <planetmaker> IMHO it would be different things, thus different work
10:57:13 <planetmaker> vehicles also have no child sprites
10:57:44 <planetmaker> and no sprite layout at all.
11:01:30 <George> But if they would it be nice ;)
11:03:13 <planetmaker> yes, it would. But it's an entirely different topic ;-)
11:04:10 <planetmaker> and the larger a topic or patch gets the less likely or lengthy any trunk inclusion gets due to an exponential increase in possible border cases...
11:09:24 <andythenorth> extended sprite layout would be very nice to have
11:09:27 <andythenorth> lets keep it simple :)
11:10:44 <andythenorth> will it be confusing that the FIRS grain mill has two totally different sets of graphics (windmill: brick building)
11:10:59 <andythenorth> same industry in all other respects
11:14:47 <andythenorth> I'll test that this afternoon :)
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11:15:13 <andythenorth> I set bit 8 how? (I should know by now, but never do)
11:15:35 <andythenorth> or just push a value?
11:15:37 <Yexo> it's bit 8 of register 101
11:16:43 <Yexo> 1A 20 \wx0100 (var 1A, mask 0x0100) \2sto 1A 00 \wx0101 (operation store, var 1A, mask 0x101 (=register number))
11:17:15 <Yexo> the above is assuming that you use type 85 for the varaction2, so everything is word-sized
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11:34:35 <andythenorth> Yexo: any thoughts on backwards compatibility if I use this var?
11:34:41 <andythenorth> seems I might need to consider it...
11:35:03 <Yexo> in openttd versions that don't support it that bit will be ignored
11:35:23 <andythenorth> so I'll get a count for the map, not the town...
11:37:07 <andythenorth> that will cause non-ideal but not failing results
11:38:00 <andythenorth> I can always wait to implement it in FIRS until it's in a 1.1.x openttd
11:38:29 <Yexo> certainly don't implement it in FIRS now, frosch (or someone else) might have another idea on how to implement it
11:38:45 <andythenorth> but I should test your patch works?
11:38:54 <andythenorth> it's no drama to test
11:38:57 <Yexo> if you want to, it's not really necesary
11:39:09 <andythenorth> ok...maybe I work on some other tickets then :)
11:39:38 <andythenorth> is it useful to raise a FS about this idea?
11:39:56 <Yexo> yes, it makes sure it's not forgotten
11:41:20 <andythenorth> is this task not done?
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11:41:26 <andythenorth> I make industry on water a lot :)
11:41:51 <andythenorth> or do I misunderstand that ticket?
11:42:35 <Yexo> I don't understand the task completely, it might be done indeed
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11:51:06 <andythenorth> the newgrf documentation wrt town zones seems sparse
11:51:19 <andythenorth> am I looking in the wrong place?
11:52:08 <Yexo> no, that's probably all there is
11:52:27 <planetmaker> houses have more elaborate treatise on it afaik
11:52:33 <andythenorth> I was hoping to do this ticket
11:52:44 <andythenorth> but I don't really understand yet what's required
11:52:59 <andythenorth> do town zones expand over time?
11:53:18 <planetmaker> yes. Radii are a function of town size
11:54:01 <andythenorth> so zone 3 is the town centre
11:54:10 <andythenorth> seems to be out of order
11:54:13 <planetmaker> not always. zone 5
11:54:20 <planetmaker> the highest one is town centre
11:54:21 <Yexo> it depends on the town size
11:54:30 * andythenorth might duck this ticket
11:54:37 <Yexo> for very big towns, 5 is the center, 0 is at the outskirts
11:54:41 <andythenorth> there is useful other things to do :)
11:54:55 <andythenorth> anyone else got an idea of how to do it?
11:54:58 <Yexo> smaller towns don't have townzone 5, so 4 (or 3, 2. etc.) will be the center, 0 is still the outskirts of the town
11:55:27 <Yexo> reading that ticket it seems you want it to be placed near the border of the towns, right? so always in townzone o (or maybe 1)
11:55:52 <andythenorth> I'm not really sure what the gameplay effect will be of that
11:56:21 <andythenorth> only one way to find out...
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12:11:33 <ZirconiumX> I'm being an idiot as usual
12:11:56 <ZirconiumX> <null> <---- line = (165) column = (1) : error expression expected
12:12:11 <ZirconiumX> it's refering to a nonexistent line
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12:14:57 <glx> always check the previous line
12:17:12 <ZirconiumX> else if (getG(s_start) == infinity) { path = null; return false; }
12:17:45 <glx> seems it doesn't now null
12:18:19 * ZirconiumX has been daft - open expression
12:18:55 <ZirconiumX> I'll wait for Squirrel2 compiler to compile - then I'll see what's what
12:22:14 <ZirconiumX> no - still compalaining - even with the *correct* compiler
12:23:15 <ZirconiumX> <ignore this, OFTC's playing up> /Users/ralphbrades/DStar_update/main.nut line = (165) column = (1) : error expression expected Error [expression expected]
12:24:02 <glx> it's not oftc it's your client ;)
12:24:15 <ZirconiumX> 13:18 coulomb.oftc.net 421: | [0] ZirconiumX, [1] Users/***/DStar_update/main.nut, [2] Unknown command
12:24:38 <glx> yes lines starting with / are commands
12:24:52 <ZirconiumX> I could do with Yexo being around
12:25:24 <glx> anyway the problem is path = null
12:25:46 <planetmaker> doesn't sound healthy. Also 'hi glx' :-)
12:26:34 * ZirconiumX thinks as a general rule - respect op's
12:26:46 <dihedral> ZirconiumX, respect everybody*
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12:27:42 <glx> try without the "path = null" stuff to be sure
12:28:10 <ZirconiumX> I'll comment it out
12:28:33 <glx> but keep the return, maybe it's the error
12:28:44 <ZirconiumX> ah - the wonders of vim
12:29:10 <planetmaker> hello all, also ;-)
12:30:10 <ZirconiumX> the best command - other than :w
12:30:34 * ZirconiumX wonders where life would be without the save button
12:31:19 <ZirconiumX> Users/***/DStar_update/main.nut line = (164) column = (2) : error expression expected Error [expression expected]
12:31:50 <ZirconiumX> } <-- is column 164
12:32:27 <ZirconiumX> bit of commenting later
12:33:45 * andythenorth_ wonders what to do with Fruit & Veg in FIRS
12:34:14 <ZirconiumX> sell it for ridiculous amounts of moneyz
12:34:25 <andythenorth_> option 1 - deliver to stores (but they already have max input cargos)
12:34:34 <andythenorth_> option 2 - market industry in town, it's a black hole
12:34:42 <andythenorth_> option 3 - process into food
12:35:06 <andythenorth_> it's the most logical
12:35:14 <andythenorth_> which is most fun?
12:35:30 <ZirconiumX> food then supermarket
12:36:02 <ZirconiumX> <idiot> burn it *maniacal eyes* </idiot
12:36:24 * ZirconiumX most stop being noobish
12:37:05 <ZirconiumX> the path = null thing is fine
12:37:39 <planetmaker> hm... market... could be interesting :-)
12:37:57 <andythenorth_> I wonder about that
12:38:09 <andythenorth_> I could transform 'store' into market
12:38:11 <ZirconiumX> what if you have a higher price for fruit and Veg in desert
12:38:14 <andythenorth_> but I don't have enough input cargos
12:38:34 <planetmaker> a few black holes don't hurt. But... hm... why then transform 'store' and not keep it?
12:38:45 <andythenorth_> clutter on minimap?
12:38:55 <andythenorth_> I *could* transform store into hardware store
12:39:02 <andythenorth_> and have it accept goods and building materials
12:39:09 <andythenorth_> instead of food / goods / alcohol
12:39:16 <ZirconiumX> and then have a supermarket for the food
12:39:20 <andythenorth_> then add a market
12:39:26 * ZirconiumX thinks supermarkets are important
12:39:28 <andythenorth_> market gets beer, food, fruit
12:39:29 <planetmaker> hm... and there it is again: varying input for an industry :-P
12:39:41 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: it's technically possible
12:39:46 <andythenorth_> is it a good idea though?
12:40:04 <planetmaker> I still don't know ;-) - I was just reminded of this idea again, though
12:40:04 <andythenorth_> stores that accept a random set of cargos on build?
12:40:10 <ZirconiumX> ah - yes it is the path = null thing
12:40:15 <planetmaker> but yes, that's what I thought of
12:40:24 <planetmaker> And they could have different graphics depending on that.
12:40:38 <planetmaker> E.g. one accepting fruits could more have a market graphics than a mall
12:40:58 <planetmaker> I think I'd need to really see it alive and kicking before I could make up my mind properly
12:41:00 <andythenorth_> is it annoying to have to check acceptance?
12:41:05 <andythenorth_> I guess we just have to test
12:41:10 <andythenorth_> I need to start a new game anyway :P
12:41:17 <planetmaker> might be annoying.
12:41:29 <planetmaker> If it's 3 out of 4 or so
12:41:37 <andythenorth_> it's a black hole...
12:41:43 <andythenorth_> wonder if I can use tile acceptance
12:41:49 <andythenorth_> and ignore industry acceptance
12:41:57 <andythenorth_> probably screws with the industry chains display
12:42:08 <Terkhen> if they have different graphics it's ok, otherwise I would find it annoying
12:42:34 <andythenorth_> simplest thing is to remove fruit + veg cargo :P
12:43:29 <andythenorth_> there are plenty of farm cargos already...
12:46:09 * andythenorth_ proposes removing fruit + veg
12:46:11 <andythenorth_> and fruit plantation
12:47:57 <LordAro> Hirundo: i have, i just did 'hg diff -r qparent' for simple posting :) Should i post the separate patch so it can be committed? or is it not needed yet?
12:48:12 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: you think an unwise move?
12:48:30 <planetmaker> I don't quite understand the need.
12:48:43 <andythenorth_> it's just not adding much
12:48:49 <andythenorth_> there are another 6 farm cargos to play with
12:48:59 <planetmaker> Fruit is a nice cargo. And I've heart the argument "not adding much" for virtually every cargo...
12:49:00 <andythenorth_> "it's done when there's nothing else left to take away" etc
12:49:27 <andythenorth_> Do you not find it weird that it's only produced at fruit plantation, not at farms also?
12:49:31 <planetmaker> remove every supply except one. remove all ores except one. remove all farm cargos except one.
12:49:32 <andythenorth_> Maybe the name is bothering me
12:49:42 <andythenorth_> Fruit Plantation -> Fruit & Vegetables
12:49:48 <andythenorth_> seems a bit odd
12:49:57 <planetmaker> then use the default fruits
12:49:57 <lugo> seperating supermarket and hardware store/building yard sounds like a great idea to me, just my 2c :)
12:50:18 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause2 was requesting another sink for building materials....
12:50:22 <planetmaker> I never understood why a new cargo needed introducing there. But... for the sake of compatibility, just rename how the string reads
12:50:38 <andythenorth_> or rename the industry?
12:50:44 <andythenorth_> Fruits I'm happier with
12:50:52 <andythenorth_> I wonder if fruits includes olives
12:51:06 <andythenorth_> and apples -> cider
12:51:08 <planetmaker> And if the delivery destinations bothers you: ship them to a food processor and an alcohol plant
12:51:17 <andythenorth_> They go to the brewery already
12:51:22 <planetmaker> grapes, definitely. Olives... dunno
12:51:38 <andythenorth_> I think they need to go to a fruit packer and become food
12:51:47 <andythenorth_> ach, I can't decide :)
12:51:49 <planetmaker> just food factory
12:51:54 <confound> you can have both, can't you?
12:52:04 <andythenorth_> you can, but it makes for odd gameplay
12:52:15 <planetmaker> Like you can make marmelade, juice, cocktails, ... what-not-ever
12:52:18 <confound> because they could turn into food or they could just be delivered directly?
12:52:21 <andythenorth_> this one is silly, I should have figured it out ages ago
12:52:36 <planetmaker> German marmelade = English jam ;-)
12:52:54 <planetmaker> English marmelade = special kind of German marmelade ;-)
12:52:57 <confound> delivering fruits/vegetables directly to supermarket or something seems not crazy to me
12:53:00 <planetmaker> nasty false friends
12:53:25 <andythenorth_> if fruit goes direct to supermarket, I have to drop a cargo there
12:53:34 <andythenorth_> probably goods in that case
12:53:55 <andythenorth_> currently accepts food / goods / alcohol
12:54:04 <andythenorth_> dropping alcohol is obviously silly
12:54:19 <planetmaker> be British. Only sell it in liquor stores :-P
12:54:27 <planetmaker> Continental Europe then won't get it :-P
12:54:35 <andythenorth_> be British, sell it everywhere, watch all your pubs close down :P
12:55:09 <andythenorth_> *not* adding food processor makes for a cleaner minimap
12:55:13 <andythenorth_> and I don't have to draw anything
12:55:27 * andythenorth_ believes someone has recently created a food processor industry :o
12:55:38 <planetmaker> default TTD has a food processor industry
12:55:45 <andythenorth_> I know, but that one sucks
12:55:58 <planetmaker> it has potential for improvement.
12:56:08 <andythenorth_> I think (1) rename cargo
12:56:08 <confound> I think "food processor" is boring, sadly
12:56:10 <planetmaker> Give me a nicer one which fits the original size and you'll make me happy, too ;-)
12:56:18 <Terkhen> in OpenGFX it looks a bit empty
12:56:37 <andythenorth_> (2) fruit -> brewery (currently true) and fruit -> market/store (needs adding)
12:56:54 <andythenorth_> and (3) remove goods from store, maybe provide a new destination industry for it
12:57:23 <andythenorth_> is it acceptable to have pluralised industries?
12:57:58 <andythenorth_> catering for early games makes this *way* harder sadly
12:58:05 <andythenorth_> if it started in 1950, this would be much easier
12:58:42 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: changing the string implies that really the cargo label should be reverted back to the default...
12:58:51 <andythenorth_> ...not sure whether that's good though wrt savegames
13:00:36 <andythenorth_> pure 'fruit' reads better in game
13:01:23 <confound> that makes sense to me
13:01:50 <confound> "Restaurants" could accept fruit, food, and alcohol, though... meh
13:02:19 <Terkhen> what was the reason for using "fruits and vegetables" instead of the default cargo?
13:02:31 <andythenorth_> lost in the depths of time
13:02:43 <andythenorth_> I'd happily revert, except for breakage concerns
13:03:08 <andythenorth_> might be able to change only the label, which might not freak out too badly for well-made sets
13:03:27 <andythenorth_> if Store was Food Store this would suddenly make a lot more sense
13:03:43 <andythenorth_> Fruit, Food, Alcohol
13:05:09 <andythenorth_> which is better?
13:05:21 <andythenorth_> for EU and US readers both?
13:05:24 <confound> of those two, I like Market better (US)
13:05:33 <confound> Food Store sounds very generic
13:05:40 <andythenorth_> planetmaker: Terkhen ?
13:06:32 * andythenorth_ thinks Food Market
13:06:36 <Terkhen> they sound all the same to me, probably because they share the same translation in spanish :)
13:06:54 <andythenorth_> which is (out of interest)?
13:07:35 * andythenorth_ should know that
13:07:53 <andythenorth_> Food Market wins
13:08:10 <andythenorth_> that means a new industry is needed for Goods / BDMT
13:08:16 <Terkhen> "mercado de alimentación" (food market) is too long and usually is not used, so I would translate that as just "mercado"
13:10:00 <andythenorth_> would that conflict with some other shop types? Like hardware store?
13:10:49 <Terkhen> no, that has a specific name in spanish
13:11:18 <andythenorth_> should Builders Yard also accept Goods?
13:11:24 <andythenorth_> that would be one way to avoid needing a new industry
13:11:29 <Terkhen> which industries produce goods right now?
13:14:02 <Terkhen> hmm.. it does not make much sense for industries such as the textile mill
13:15:29 <andythenorth_> which is also valid back to 1800s
13:18:05 <Terkhen> LordAro: if this->avail_sel is NULL, wouldn't it fail in the second line?
13:18:12 <Terkhen> andythenorth_: true :)
13:18:23 <Yexo> LordAro: first write down (in english) when you want the button to be disabled
13:19:12 <LordAro> ok, i thought i may have to resort ot that... (yexo)
13:19:22 <andythenorth_> Belugas: what industry accepts Goods and Building Materials? :)
13:20:25 <LordAro> Terkhen: s/simplifying/correcting/ ;)
13:20:48 * andythenorth_ thinks it has to be Hardware Store
13:20:52 <andythenorth_> any objections?
13:24:53 <andythenorth_> 'Ironmonger' is probably a bit UK specific
13:31:08 <andythenorth_> now I have to code another fricking industry :|
13:41:56 <andythenorth_> "Hotel / Restaurant" is a sucky name for an industry
13:42:08 <andythenorth_> they shouldn't need '/' in their names
13:42:26 <andythenorth_> Accepts Food, Alcohol, PAX
13:42:33 <andythenorth_> will look like a hotel, or a boat...
13:51:07 <Belugas> andythenorth_, i fail to find an industry other than those found so far :( sorry
13:51:14 <Belugas> bit busy, actually...
13:52:19 <lugo> restaurant+hotel = resort?
13:53:22 <andythenorth_> I thought that maybe
13:53:44 <andythenorth_> Is a riverboat restaurant a resort?
13:55:14 <andythenorth_> Terkhen: how does 'resort' translate in spanish?
13:56:00 <Terkhen> hmm... in many different ways, depending on the kind of resort
13:56:34 <Yexo> doesn't a resort always have some place to sleep?
13:56:57 <andythenorth_> well it could be a botel
13:57:00 <andythenorth_> in the boat case
13:57:07 <andythenorth_> I stayed in a botel once :)
13:57:56 <Yexo> sure, in that case it could be a resort, but not if it only has a restaurant
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14:24:58 <planetmaker> <Terkhen> what was the reason for using "fruits and vegetables" instead of the default cargo?
14:24:58 <planetmaker> <andythenorth_> Not sure <-- IIRC the argument was along the lines of cargo classes differing
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14:46:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: orudge * r22320 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#4590]: "Shopping centre" is more accurate in British English
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15:32:57 <andythenorth> I could exclude the boat variation of the hotel
15:33:03 <andythenorth> that would make coding easier too....
15:38:23 <andythenorth> Hotel should accept / produce PAX in addition to other cargos?
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15:59:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth, sounds reasonable
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16:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: yes, i was gonna ask about that yesterday ;)
16:20:12 <Eddi|zuHause> question is: how much?
16:20:39 <Eddi|zuHause> same as goes in (like secondary), or fixed value (like primary)
16:21:17 <Eddi|zuHause> i think "like secondary" should work...
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16:22:15 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... might interfere with houses accepting nearby, then either all or no cargo gets to the hotel...
16:22:28 <andythenorth> probably just the same as oil rig
16:22:41 <andythenorth> supply at fixed rate
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16:23:31 <planetmaker> adventure holidays: holidays on an oil rig.
16:24:10 <planetmaker> andythenorth, also, the argument for fruits & vegetables vs fruit was IIRC along the lines of different cargo classes
16:27:36 <andythenorth> sounds plausible
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16:36:39 <andythenorth> a hotel could also produce / accept mail
16:36:51 <andythenorth> if I use tile acceptance rather than industry acceptance
16:37:23 <supermop> oooh i need to brush up on my german
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16:39:52 <planetmaker> usually it should not be needed in this channel, supermop ;-)
16:40:35 <supermop> a very importan german is coming next month
16:40:51 <supermop> i need to remember how to use Sie instead of du
16:41:14 <planetmaker> 3rd person plural. That's it ;-)
16:41:31 <Eddi|zuHause> "man" is the word ;
16:41:48 <planetmaker> may sound awkward, though, Eddi|zuHause ;-)
16:42:06 <planetmaker> But it's a "trick" when you don't know whether you can / should say "Du" or rather "Sie"
16:42:13 <Eddi|zuHause> oh, and most germans react badly to bad german, speak english instead ;)
16:42:13 <supermop> wait, i talk about him as if he was a hypothetical person?
16:42:33 <supermop> this guy is definately Sie
16:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> another great way to avoid the problem is using passive ;)
16:42:56 <__ln__> Eddi|zuHause: a lot of germans do not understand english
16:43:12 <supermop> this guy is ok at english, and is very nice, i hear
16:43:21 <planetmaker> But one could say "Man könnte heute Abend ins Restaurant gehen" instead of "Ich schlage Ihnen vor, heute Abend mit uns ins Restaurant zu gehen"
16:43:34 <Eddi|zuHause> __ln__: but for higher positions in businesses, english is mandatory
16:43:52 <supermop> designers never retire
16:44:50 <supermop> he actually just released a bunch of new watches based on his old classic designs
16:45:51 <andythenorth> black hole industries don't produce :(
16:45:52 <planetmaker> Most probably it's a nice gesture to greet him in German, but to do business in English
16:46:44 <andythenorth> if I make the hotel a secondary industry I have to deal with a whole lot of other stuff :|
16:46:56 <planetmaker> it'll produce waste ;-)
16:47:17 <andythenorth> only if I make it a secondary, and deal with production cbs etc :|
16:47:43 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: make it a primary, and if it gets incoming cargo (passengers, alcohol) then it has a slight chance of increasing
16:48:07 <andythenorth> I'll still have to write production cb code etc
16:48:17 <__ln__> dunno... assuming supermop can actually speak useful amount of german, isn't it then a bit silly to revert to english?
16:48:31 <supermop> I could speak decent german,
16:48:58 <Eddi|zuHause> we should switch this channel to german, so you can train ;)
16:49:03 <larsemil> i was fluent back in the days, when i was 12. now i am 27 and dont remember that much
16:49:31 <supermop> is there a german ottd channel?
16:49:33 <__ln__> i don't think one can forget decent skills in some language in just a few years at adult age
16:49:43 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: no, there was not enough demand
16:49:46 <supermop> once i am going, it will come back
16:50:02 <supermop> its just getting over that hump will be hard
16:50:27 <supermop> and while i might regain confidence, there will be big holes in my vocabulary
16:50:30 * andythenorth has lost french, german, spanish, and actionscript
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16:52:02 <__ln__> ich habe deutsch zum letzten mal im jahr 2000 in der schule gelernt, und habe nicht ganz alles vergessen.
16:52:33 <andythenorth> ich spreche deutsch nicht so gut
16:53:01 <andythenorth> me hablo espanol un pequeno
16:53:13 <andythenorth> je parle un petit peut de francais
16:53:35 <andythenorth> this.actionscript.remember();
16:54:41 <planetmaker> Je ne peut plus parles en francaise
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16:55:34 <V453000> you know how bad is french beer?
16:56:09 <planetmaker> ah, but they have cheese fondue
16:56:21 <planetmaker> and mousse au chocolat
16:56:39 <planetmaker> and cr`eme bruil'ee
16:56:42 <supermop> what they lack in beer is made up for in fattening things
16:57:09 * andythenorth advises paying attention to linter failures before declaring things don't work
16:57:58 <andythenorth> 8 passengers a month may be a little low for a hotel...
16:58:17 <V453000> what is cheese in compare with beer
16:58:27 <andythenorth> how about 120 passengers / month
16:58:42 <andythenorth> V453000: cheese is essential if you drink cider instead of beer
16:59:00 <planetmaker> V453000, cheese makes a very good basis for increased beer consumption
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16:59:39 <V453000> stinks so much that you need to beat it with something else? :D
16:59:45 <XeryusTC> cheese is not good for anything
16:59:50 <planetmaker> apropos cheese.... dinner time :-)
17:00:49 <XeryusTC> you sir, have not tasted proper beer
17:00:53 <supermop> cheese is the best thing from england, as well
17:01:06 <Terkhen> that argument can easily be reversed to prove that I'm right :)
17:01:07 <andythenorth> both cheese, beer and cider are available in FIRS
17:01:10 <supermop> i have had plenty of amazing beers
17:01:20 <ZirconiumX> @XeryusTC CAMRA FTW!
17:01:29 <supermop> plenty of amazing cheeses
17:02:02 <XeryusTC> ZirconiumX: i dont live in the UK
17:02:30 <ZirconiumX> none the less - you have to admire them
17:02:46 <ZirconiumX> their last event combined cheese and beer
17:02:53 <ZirconiumX> there - draw a deal
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17:03:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the only use for cheese is on pizza.
17:03:46 <ZirconiumX> You there, Yexo? Squirrel's complaining about a line - a wierd one at that
17:04:16 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: wrong wrong wrong
17:04:29 <andythenorth> for that comment, your next three FIRS requests are automatically disallowed
17:04:47 <ZirconiumX> else if (getG(s_start) == infinity) { // path = null; return false; <--- note the comment
17:05:11 <ZirconiumX> @andythenorth - what's your favourite cheese?
17:05:44 <ZirconiumX> I'm one for blue cheeses - Stilton being my favourite
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17:06:05 <Eddi|zuHause> ZirconiumX: you shouldn't comment out the } on that line though
17:06:19 <XeryusTC> cheese is an abbomination
17:06:42 <ZirconiumX> I'm crackers about crackers - personally
17:07:08 <ZirconiumX> infinity's still too big <end of pm favourite line>
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17:08:07 <andythenorth> there are going to be some minor conflicts between FIRS and default towns
17:08:16 <andythenorth> wrt sense for players, not code
17:09:07 <andythenorth> default towns already add supermarkets, hotels etc
17:09:10 <Eddi|zuHause> one douk comes never alone?
17:09:28 <ZirconiumX> @andythenorth - I'd use FIRS - if it had Pikka's Basic Industries - esque graphics
17:09:31 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't make a lot of sense in english.
17:09:37 <ZirconiumX> but it doesn't - so I don't
17:09:44 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: I am not understanding that point?
17:10:01 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: you can disable them
17:10:11 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: I thought of that. Is it a good idea?
17:10:15 <andythenorth> screwing with towns?
17:10:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: that won't even affect any house sets
17:10:21 <ZirconiumX> Sorry - I thought you were rrefering to graphics
17:10:36 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: what are PBI-esque graphics like?
17:10:50 <andythenorth> (I know what PBI is like, I mean, what do you mean by them?)
17:11:04 <ZirconiumX> like the original graphics - I feel they blend in more - but that's just me
17:11:24 <andythenorth> ZirconiumX: there's not much I can do about that :(
17:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause> there's no real problem with FIRS blending in
17:11:35 <andythenorth> I am trying to draw as close to original as possible.
17:11:47 <andythenorth> I don't think there's anyone else drawing closer to original style now
17:11:52 <ZirconiumX> I feel FIRS only blends in with OpenGFX
17:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos blending in, i think the snowline calculation for FIRS forests is wrong
17:12:05 <andythenorth> PBI just reuses default graphics, so it's easy
17:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or my screwing with it is...
17:12:27 <Eddi|zuHause> screwing with the snowline, not FIRS....
17:12:47 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: bug report if you think there's an issue
17:12:52 <andythenorth> snowline calculation is hard to perfect
17:13:08 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, in my current game i get snowy forest in grassy areas
17:13:31 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: whereabout in the code is the snowline calculation? maybe i should have a look myself
17:13:37 <supermop> I love a good stilton
17:13:41 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause you have a checkout?
17:13:57 <andythenorth> somewhere complicated no doubt...
17:14:13 <Eddi|zuHause> of a few weeks ago, so if you did screw with that in the past few weeks, i should update first
17:14:35 <ZirconiumX> at least FIRS isn't ECS :eyesore:
17:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> any savegame breaking things i should worry about?
17:15:01 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: sprites/nfo/industries/forest.pnfo
17:15:10 <andythenorth> should be savegame safe approximately
17:15:43 <Eddi|zuHause> ah, i'll skip updating for now
17:15:49 <Eddi|zuHause> one step at a time
17:19:56 <Eddi|zuHause> hm "\2- 20 20 \wxFF //get current snowline height" <-- likely a conflict with more heightlevels, where height*8 may exceed 0xFF
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17:32:19 <ZirconiumX> I just lost The Game
17:33:04 <LordAro> i just lost it again :)
17:33:23 <ZirconiumX> That's the second Time I've just lost it
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17:37:22 <andythenorth_> ZirconiumX: out of interest, when did you last try FIRS?
17:41:45 <andythenorth_> any idea what version?
17:42:44 <andythenorth_> I ask because I've been slowly moving industries closer to default style
17:43:28 <andythenorth_> it would be useful to know which ones still stand out as opengfx style
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22321 /trunk/src/lang/ (belarusian.txt russian.txt):
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belarusian - 1 changes by KorneySan
17:45:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: russian - 1 changes by KorneySan
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18:03:31 <flitz> when I do FOR_ALL_VEHICLES and just print each result, I get some odd results inbetween, that have engine_type:0 and subtype:1, DEFAULT_GROUP and other default values
18:03:51 <flitz> are these inconsistencies or just free room in the vehicle pool ?
18:07:50 <Alberth> you should check the vehicle type
18:08:22 <Alberth> there are also effect-vehicles (smoke, sparks) and disaster-vehicles
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18:09:48 <flitz> do disaster and effect vehicles to a company too ? (can't check right now, sry)
18:10:25 <Alberth> probably not, but I am not entirely sure
18:10:59 <Alberth> eg smoke from a power plant is also a vehicle
18:11:58 <flitz> I can check in a few minutes, brb
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18:35:20 <andythenorth_> as zirconium didn't reply - anyone want to suggest FIRS industries for graphics tweaks?
18:35:43 <andythenorth_> specifically so in the direction of being in style of default graphics...
18:36:44 <flitz> Alberth: with vehicle type you meant vehicle->type, right ?
18:36:45 <Eddi|zuHause> the bakery looked a bit weird...
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18:37:17 <Eddi|zuHause> it didn't look bakery-y, but i don't even know what that means :p
18:37:30 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: I know what you mean
18:37:39 <andythenorth_> although it's one of the few buildings drawn directly from RL :P
18:37:50 <andythenorth_> does it fit in game though?
18:40:19 <Alberth> flitz: yes, with values from enum VehicleType
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18:40:57 <Eddi|zuHause> the difference in style gets obvious where you reuse original graphics. compare the machine shop with the steel mill, or compare the cement works with the refinery
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18:43:33 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: I redrew machine shop recently for that reason
18:44:13 <Hendikins> You know, it is possibly a bad thing that one of the first things I thought about my new 2560x1440 display is "you know, openttd would look great on that..."
18:44:22 <flitz> Alberth: because it's weird, if I just print the value in gdb, I get the 0 I expect, but with printf I get -1^30
18:44:41 <andythenorth_> ultimately FIRS will never look TTD style unless I break industries into single-tile modules
18:44:47 <andythenorth_> (in most cases)
18:45:21 <Alberth> flitz: interesting byte value :p
18:45:47 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: any other cases?
18:45:55 <supermop> does it have to look tt style?
18:45:58 <flitz> Alberth: I just saw the VehiclyType is a TinyEnum<>, that could explain it
18:47:03 <Alberth> no idea, I don't know enough of the details of C++ to understand the consequences of such constructs exactly
18:47:25 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: not that i'm aware of
18:48:18 <andythenorth_> it's become a personal obsession
18:48:21 <andythenorth_> for better or worse
18:48:43 <andythenorth_> supermop: it's a goal I can never win, due to various choices I made :P
18:49:29 <andythenorth_> a better goal would be what zirconium said - it blends in with ttd style
18:49:56 <andythenorth_> ttd style is not consistent anyway, it must have taken simon foster a long time to do
18:50:03 <andythenorth_> and there was a gap between TTO and TTD
18:50:16 <andythenorth_> there are mistakes, inconsistencies etc :)
18:51:16 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: the textile mill troubles me
18:51:22 <flitz> Alberth: no problem, your tip helped either way
18:51:32 <andythenorth_> I redrew the roof sometime ago, but the texturing is just not right
18:52:05 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: you will always find things that are "not right" :p
18:52:18 <andythenorth_> it helps that I now know which way the light comes from
18:52:29 <andythenorth_> someone made a very big mistake in TTDP wiki some years ago
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20:09:20 <supermop> i dont like purple windows
20:09:26 <supermop> i cant make them look right
20:11:49 <andythenorth_> supermop: they're hard
20:12:12 <andythenorth_> the only fixed rule is darkest at the top
20:12:18 <supermop> with warehouses or industrial buildings,
20:12:21 <andythenorth_> everything else varies according to the effect
20:12:33 <supermop> that have frosted old panes
20:12:39 <andythenorth_> paste your work in progress somewhere?
20:12:44 <supermop> i think shades of teal look better
20:12:45 <andythenorth_> I've had to solve this for FIRS
20:13:00 <andythenorth_> supermop: the default station has brown windows, if you want an excuse to vary them
20:13:04 <supermop> but on city buildings with clear or reflective glass i have been trying purple
20:13:26 <supermop> i have a thread with my nakagin building
20:13:39 <supermop> but i havent had time to touch it since saturday
20:13:53 <supermop> the round windows are really hard
20:15:19 <andythenorth_> the duplication between FRUT (default) and FRVG (FIRS) is silly
20:15:37 <LordAro> Alberth: a problem with your function/my code (see above) - it always returns false
20:15:43 <andythenorth_> but fruit is not bulk, refrigerated in my view :|
20:16:59 <Alberth> if (this->avail_sel == NULL) c = this->avail_sel; <-- what does that do?
20:19:26 <frosch123> fruit is refridgerated?
20:19:46 <frosch123> do you put your fruit in a fridge? :s
20:19:59 <andythenorth_> frosch123: some of it
20:20:10 <andythenorth_> but who cares about my habits :)
20:20:16 <LordAro> Alberth: damn, sorry, forgot a '!' :)
20:20:58 <Alberth> that may make a difference :)
20:21:31 <frosch123> you can put vegetables in the fridge, but fruit is best outside (not necessary in the sun)
20:21:49 <andythenorth_> well I didn't choose those classes ;)
20:23:29 <LordAro> Alberth/whoever-else-cares: Yay! that works :)
20:23:50 <LordAro> now, finding and reading the readme, then printing it...
20:24:14 <LordAro> finding it is already done however
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20:47:26 <Zuu> LordAro: Are you coding a readme viewer for banans?
20:47:56 <LordAro> slowly, but surely, yes :)
20:48:24 <Zuu> Nice that you are taking yourself time with it.
20:52:08 <Zuu> Trying to code is a good way to learn :-)
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20:54:48 <LordAro> andythenorth_: sums me up perfectly, i think :D
20:56:07 * LordAro changes his forum signature
20:59:19 <Alberth> Zuu: not for bananas, but for local newgrfs instead afaik
20:59:45 <Zuu> Just newgrfs or also AIs?
21:00:38 <Alberth> currently just newgrfs, but who know what LA has planned :p
21:02:05 <Alberth> given that they are also saved in tar files, in the same way, it should be quite simple to extend
21:04:38 * LordAro hasn't planned much, probably just newgrfs for now, expand to AIs later (and maybe even things like base sets/sounds/whatever and heightmaps!) :)
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