IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-12
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03:28:06 <anythingffs> guys, how does the good cargo catchment work? number of people in the catchment or distance from town centre?
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03:32:45 <albaandy> on a side note, wouldnt the openttd engine be good for a theme park tycoon?
03:35:22 <albaandy> I need an airport to accept goods, what is the criteria for that or how do I help it along?
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05:09:44 <albaandy> how does openttd decide if an airport can accept goods or not? whats the criteria
05:10:31 <albaandy> I have a station the accepts grain but there is grain waiting at the station? is this a bug or maybe theres not enough demand?
05:35:17 <DabuYu> albaandy: the acceptance of goods happens when the airport's catchment area has a block which accepts goods
05:35:40 <DabuYu> and the station which has grain and accepts grain: possibly there's a farm nearby which puts its grain there
05:36:55 <DabuYu> theme park tycoon: after the original transport tycoon deluxe a followup was developed, but was instead developed into rollercoaster tycoon
05:37:16 <DabuYu> so yes, probably a similar engine was used for that
05:40:32 <albaandy> about the 'goods' block, i have an out of town airport that i would like to accept goods, how can I go about that?
05:41:01 <albaandy> it looks like blocks that accept goods are only in the town centres
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05:58:56 <Rubidium> albaandy: houses can provide goods in 1/8th (see the query tool). You need at least 8/8ths of goods acceptance from different houses within the catchment area before the cargo is accepted by the station
05:59:47 <Rubidium> most industries provide 8/8th and thus one tile would be enough for acceptance, although there are cargos of some industries that require more coverage of the industry or even external "help" (e.g. the steel mill)
06:16:45 <pikka> from beautiful bracken ridge
06:17:23 <pikka> at least there's a loo here
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06:34:02 * ZirconiumX must have a look at the squirrel documentation to solve his question
06:35:28 <ZirconiumX> does openttd use squirrel 2.x or 3.x?
06:35:53 <Markk> Does OpenTTD use a squirrel? O.o
06:36:25 * ZirconiumX smacks Markk in the face
06:36:44 <ZirconiumX> Squirrel Programming Language
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06:46:41 <ZirconiumX> Should I 'fudge' TileID for X, Y
06:47:35 <ZirconiumX> @Markk Note the 2.x - 'Improved CyberSquirrel'
06:47:47 <ZirconiumX> but a squirrel none the less
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08:00:49 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause2, i like the mini countryman ;-)
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12:25:06 <dihedral> seems to be a sole connection day ^^
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12:51:39 <V453000> you are missing an "i" there :p
12:52:36 <Markk> Yes, the new toilet from Apple Inc (TM).
12:52:38 <Eddi|zuHause> this apple thing is spreading way too far...
13:00:48 <flitz> iAmconvincedtobuysomeappleproductnowthanksguys
13:01:12 <guru3> iF you iNsist, but iT may be iNadvisable
13:01:27 <guru3> they are iNcredibly expensive
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13:06:16 <flitz> yoUnix are right, iWill stick to something cheaper then
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14:25:31 <Eddi|zuHause> how many americans believe that Juri Gagarin was never actually in space?
14:26:02 <SpComb> how many americans believe that Apollo never went to the moon?
14:27:05 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: who cares about Apollo and the moon :p
14:27:18 <SpComb> "Polls taken in various locations have shown that between 6% and 28% of the people surveyed believed that the manned landings were faked"
14:29:04 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: but it is the anniversary of Gagarin's flight now, not of some weird moon thing...
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14:41:50 <Belugas> SpComb, I believe that there are more people believing in creationism then that Appolo was a fake...
14:41:56 <Belugas> so... yeah for polls...
14:59:53 <Eddi|zuHause> is there a way to switch between companies without the company window being open?
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15:03:17 <planetmaker> !rcon move <clientID> <companyID>
15:03:37 <planetmaker> also available via admin console
15:08:55 <Eddi|zuHause> it'd be useful if there was a "minmised" company window, like the finance window, which only shows the relevant buttons
15:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> goto/build hq, join/password, buy/sell
15:09:57 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm trying out a "schizophrenic" game ;)
15:11:08 <Eddi|zuHause> like: splitting the map in 4 parts, each served by one company, with infrastructure sharing at the intersections
15:12:43 <flitz> also interesting: each company cares for another category of transportation or cargo, like local bus service / commuter trains / far trains
15:13:20 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that involves frequent switching of companies, and the huge company windows are kinda in the way...
15:15:10 <planetmaker> I see :-) - how do you share infrastructure? By one of the patches floating around?
15:15:40 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, chills patchpack
15:17:06 <planetmaker> well, I'd not mind a patch and patch setting for that window. Go ahead :-P
15:17:45 <planetmaker> (but I guess that qualifies as an unhelpful reply ;-) )
15:17:48 <Eddi|zuHause> the map may make it quite interesting, there is a large sea in the middle, and around it are 4 more or less distinguished landscapes, one with cities in hilly landscape, one with cities in flat landscape, one without cities in hilly landscape, and one without cities in mountaneous landscape
15:19:12 <planetmaker> sounds like an interesting setup :-)
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15:49:11 <LordAro> gah, still no Alberth... :)
16:09:29 <Belugas> i'd say arount 4 more hours until Albert shows, LordAro
16:10:22 <LordAro> heh, i may not be around by then :(
16:10:41 <planetmaker> there's a thing called 'experience'
16:11:01 <planetmaker> and another called 'habits'
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16:11:30 <LordAro> but what's so special about 21:00 (BST) on tuesdays?
16:13:33 <Belugas> and another called logs :D
16:13:50 <Belugas> it's not just tuesdays, it's pretty much everyday
16:14:06 <Belugas> i'd say that Albert, like many of us, have a day time job
16:14:46 <Belugas> and that he keeps some time for his own stuff to do.
16:16:16 <planetmaker> and it's the time at which sunset occurs at 9pm local time on 11 May
16:17:04 <planetmaker> at least on my place. In Alberth's place it'll be later in may
16:17:16 <planetmaker> Belugas, but then sunset is at about 8pm currently
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16:46:56 <Yexo> <ZirconiumX> [08:35:28] does openttd use squirrel 2.x or 3.x? <- in case you didn't found out yet, openttd uses squirrel 2.2.4
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16:47:44 <Yexo> unfortunately squirrel 3 is syntax-incompatible with squirrel 2, so updating to squirrel 3 breaks several existing AIs
16:47:59 <ZirconiumX> I'd assumed 2.x - as openttd has had squirrel for a while - longer than squirrel 3
16:48:27 <Yexo> squirrel 3 stable was only released march 13 this year
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16:49:05 <ZirconiumX> Is there a function which asks whether a value is infinity?
16:49:46 <Yexo> you probably need to define your own value for that
16:50:19 <Yexo> I still don't understand the advantages of D* over A* in the case of openttd
16:50:41 * ZirconiumX is lazy, and was hoping there was some sort of AIMath.IsInfinity(val)
16:51:00 <ZirconiumX> D* Lite is almost A*
16:51:13 <ZirconiumX> but D* = Dynamic a*
16:51:15 <Yexo> from what I've read D* is made for cases where parts of the world are unknown
16:51:26 <Yexo> however in case of openttd the complete world is known at any time, but it can change
16:51:46 <Yexo> there doesn't seem to be anything in D* that deals with that (there is nothing in A* for that either)
16:52:10 <ZirconiumX> At least it isn't Djikstra's...
16:52:42 <Yexo> you do realize that A* = Dijksta + heuristic?
16:52:57 <Yexo> or the other way around, Dijkstra = A* with heuristic=0
16:53:50 <ZirconiumX> so D* = (Djikstra + heuristic) + <something>
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16:54:17 <ZirconiumX> It works Dynamically
16:54:36 <ZirconiumX> notice the <something>
16:54:59 <Yexo> yes, but without understanding what that <something> is, what is the point of implementing it?
16:55:07 <Yexo> how can you implement it without understanding it?
16:55:26 <ZirconiumX> D* is an improvement on Lifelong Planning A*
16:56:14 <ZirconiumX> 17:51 Yexo how can you implement it without understanding it? <------ Because I'm stubborn
16:56:22 <Yexo> D* was developed for unknown terrain
16:56:29 <Yexo> in case of openttd the terrain is known, but it changes
16:56:44 <Yexo> D* has (as far as I understand it) nothing do help for that case
16:57:18 <ZirconiumX> As I said - I'm stubborn
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16:58:00 <planetmaker> Yexo, the wiki says "Assuming the goal coordinates do not change, all three search algorithms are more efficient than repeated A* searches"
16:58:08 <Alberth> Yexo: it may even cause desyncs I think, as it stores result for next searches
16:58:12 <planetmaker> (three = three different D* versions)
16:58:25 <Yexo> Alberth: we're talking about AIs here, not YAPF
16:59:03 <ZirconiumX> D* = basically A* - but with a few tweaks
16:59:37 <ZirconiumX> take a car for instance
16:59:59 <ZirconiumX> the car is good - it does the job
17:00:15 <ZirconiumX> but if you tweak it - you make it better
17:01:17 <Yexo> if you tweak it you could also make it worse
17:02:23 <ZirconiumX> I'm not being rude - but would you admire a guy with *no* experience in coding trying to write a pathfinder
17:03:35 <Yexo> no, I'd consider such a person too stubborn and in way over his head
17:03:45 <Yexo> which doesn't mean I won't help if you have any questions
17:03:53 <Yexo> just that I have little faith in a good result
17:04:32 <Alberth> it makes much more sense to first get some experience with simpler code before attempting something like a path finder.
17:04:37 <ZirconiumX> Well - here's a question
17:04:46 <Alberth> the path finding problem will not go away
17:05:14 <ZirconiumX> In A* - the constructor() - it lists all the variables changed
17:05:27 <ZirconiumX> Should I copy this?
17:06:14 <Yexo> you can also set those variables after the constructor
17:06:24 <Yexo> it's really of no relevance at all to the actual algorithm
17:07:14 * ZirconiumX had a question - but thinks the answers obvious
17:07:39 <ZirconiumX> Is there a 'Euclidian Distance' funtion
17:07:48 <ZirconiumX> (obvious - really)
17:08:28 <Yexo> sqrt(AIMap.DistanceSquare())
17:08:59 <Yexo> using that however will make your code very slow, since sqrt() takes 100 opcodes
17:09:23 <Yexo> also since payment in openttd is calculated using manhattan distances, you're better of using that
17:09:43 <Yexo> if you just want to compare distances, you can leave out the sqrt
17:10:00 <ZirconiumX> the guy uses a Euclidean(state, goal) * Euclidean(state, start)
17:10:15 <Yexo> use DistanceManhattan instead
17:10:33 <Yexo> not sure why he's using * instead of + though
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17:11:14 <ZirconiumX> In order to get around the problem of the robot taking a path that is near a 45 degree angle to goal we break ties based on the metric euclidean(state, goal) + euclidean(state,start).
17:11:52 <Yexo> don't bother at all about such cases until you have some results
17:12:11 <Yexo> in case of a tie pick a random one (=first or last, since that's probably easiest)
17:13:12 <Yexo> your infinity value is too large
17:13:36 <Yexo> it might work on 64bit builds, not sure about that
17:13:58 <ZirconiumX> 99999999 (eight 9's)
17:15:41 <ZirconiumX> just remembered - path null - need to return null?
17:17:04 <ZirconiumX> I'll put in return null;
17:18:31 <ZirconiumX> ah - guy returns false
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17:20:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what exactly does this mean? /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:716:44: warning: name lookup of ‘tile’ changed
17:20:30 <ZirconiumX> report to copypaste patch
17:20:45 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, old object files?
17:20:52 <planetmaker> and / or incorrect deps?
17:21:15 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: it is followed by these lines:
17:21:30 <Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:514:6: warning: matches this ‘tile’ under ISO standard rules
17:21:31 <Eddi|zuHause> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/chipp/src/copy_paste.cpp:549:2: warning: matches this ‘tile’ under old rules
17:22:07 <planetmaker> uh oh. Sounds like re-defining a var / type as defined in some system or library headers
17:22:33 <planetmaker> probably missing somewhere a #define tile ottd_tile or alike
17:22:57 <Eddi|zuHause> line 716 is if (success) SndPlayTileFx(SND_1F_SPLAT, tile);
17:23:44 <Eddi|zuHause> line 514 is void CopyPaste::internal_PasteArea(TileIndex tile)
17:24:17 <Eddi|zuHause> line 546 is TILE_LOOP(tile, size_x - 1, size_y - 1, TileXY(sx, sy)) {
17:24:59 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: what compiler are you using?
17:25:00 <ZirconiumX> How do you add a parameter - I need to find out the start location and goal location
17:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> from this, it is likely that the warning is superfluous
17:25:21 <Eddi|zuHause> gcc (SUSE Linux) 4.5.1 20101208 [gcc-4_5-branch revision 167585]
17:25:36 <Yexo> most likely it's behaving correct now
17:25:45 <Yexo> since you probably want the tile from line 514
17:25:56 <Yexo> the way to fix it is to rename either of the two variables
17:25:56 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yeah, that's what i think as well
17:27:26 <Eddi|zuHause> the "tile" in the loop should not be visible outside the loop
17:27:57 <Eddi|zuHause> that's likely what the warning says: previously it was visible, now it is not anymore
17:28:01 <Yexo> in very old code it was, that's why the warning is given
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17:32:27 <ZirconiumX> How *do* you treat a local as a table...
17:33:10 <Yexo> exactly like how you would treat a global variable as a table
17:33:45 <ZirconiumX> fprintf(stderr, "NO PATH TO GOAL\n");
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17:34:32 <ZirconiumX> n = Dstar::getSucc
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17:35:12 <Yexo> find out what datatype getSucc returns
17:35:36 <ZirconiumX> the guy uses it as a void
17:35:58 <Yexo> <ZirconiumX> n = Dstar::getSucc <- that implies getSucc returns some value
17:36:23 <Yexo> which code are you using as reference btw?
17:38:04 <ZirconiumX> the guy has yet to learn a proper code style - it's hopeless
17:38:39 <Yexo> I really disagree with you there
17:38:58 <Yexo> he has a very consistent codestyle
17:39:06 <ZirconiumX> Well - *I'm* hopeless
17:39:24 <ZirconiumX> I just can't find where 'n' is declared
17:39:31 <SmatZ> I think it's quite readable
17:39:33 <ZirconiumX> I'm looking in Dstar.cpp
17:39:36 <SmatZ> there could be more comments though
17:39:41 <Yexo> getSucc indeed doesn't directly return a value, but it modified the second argument it's given
17:40:58 <Yexo> first thing it does is clearing it, so you might as well construct a new list and return it
17:41:50 <ZirconiumX> As Far As *I* Can See, he use
17:42:04 <ZirconiumX> s/he use/squirrel has
17:42:14 <ZirconiumX> no list initializer
17:43:02 <ZirconiumX> So you're saying I should use
17:43:23 <ZirconiumX> getSucc(u, local list = [])
17:43:37 <ZirconiumX> or something along those lines
17:44:02 <Yexo> no, you should use something like: local n = getSucc(u) and let getSucc return a list of values instead of modifying it's second argument
17:44:32 <Yexo> if you want to keep the code as it, use "local n = []; getSucc(u, n);"
17:44:58 <Yexo> in that case be very careful that all operations you do actually modify n and not create a copy of it
17:45:20 <ZirconiumX> 18:21 ZirconiumX How do you add a parameter - I need to find out the start location and goal location
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22319 /trunk/src/lang/ (portuguese.txt unfinished/thai.txt vietnamese.txt):
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: portuguese - 1 changes by JayCity
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: thai - 1 changes by kenny
17:45:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: vietnamese - 1 changes by nglekhoi
17:45:52 <ZirconiumX> class Dstar(start, end) ?
17:46:20 <Yexo> try reading the A* code to see how it's done there
17:48:05 * ZirconiumX is pretending to be ed
17:48:07 <Yexo> that declares some variables int he class, yes
17:50:24 <ZirconiumX> is current main.nut
17:51:32 <Yexo> try running it through squirrel, that'll at least make you aware of any syntax errors
17:51:37 <ZirconiumX> How many thousand errors have I made
17:51:47 <ZirconiumX> Squirrel compiler?
17:52:03 <Yexo> just import it an an existing openttd
17:52:11 <Yexo> you'll get many compile errors
17:52:51 * ZirconiumX will try WrightAI - probably soon WrongAI
17:53:51 * ZirconiumX wishes there was a console syntax_ai/_lib AI/Lib
17:54:53 <Yexo> just press the reload AI button?
17:55:05 <Yexo> if you just want to check the syntax you could also download the squirrel binaries
17:55:18 <ZirconiumX> I have Squirrel *3*
17:55:29 <Yexo> so? download squirrel 2 too
17:55:59 <Yexo> a lot of the basic syntax however is the same, so you could also first try with squirrel 3
18:00:01 <ZirconiumX> Squirrel hasn't helped...
18:00:09 <ZirconiumX> sq : input line too long
18:00:54 <ZirconiumX> Also - sq - probably hasn't heard of RegisterLibrary()
18:01:19 <Yexo> true, but it should still be able to compile your code
18:01:46 <ZirconiumX> Infinity's still too big
18:04:19 <ZirconiumX> other than a few random complaints
18:04:20 <Alberth> I just like that sentence, given the semantics of 'infinity' :)
18:06:21 <ZirconiumX> Is squirrel ranting on
18:06:56 <ZirconiumX> about 3 million lines going on about the index Dstar does not exist
18:07:48 <Yexo> why are you copy-pasting the code to the interactive console?
18:08:06 <ZirconiumX> I can't do it line by line
18:08:24 <ZirconiumX> as tit wouldn't know why I had refernced Dstar from
18:08:52 <ZirconiumX> s/refernced/referenced
18:09:06 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: try running sq with your filename as first argument
18:09:15 <Yexo> don't start the interactive console at all
18:11:07 <ZirconiumX> sq is compiled - not installed
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18:12:04 <ZirconiumX> I can't launch squirrel with filename as first argument - as it won't accept the first argument
18:13:56 <ZirconiumX> the open command won't work either
18:15:18 <Yexo> "won't work" is still not an error message
18:15:26 <Yexo> what do you get when you try?
18:16:24 <andythenorth> what to do what to do
18:16:29 <andythenorth> cook dinner probably :P
18:16:45 <ZirconiumX> sq>/Users/ralphbrades/DStar_update/main.nut
18:16:52 <ZirconiumX> interactive console line = (1) column = (1) : error expression expected
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18:17:23 <Alberth> good plan andy, good bye :)
18:17:43 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: too late, you've already started the squirrel console there
18:17:45 <ZirconiumX> I *can't* launch squirrel - as Finder won't launch it when I drag the file onto it
18:17:56 <Yexo> so open some kind of console and start it from there
18:18:15 <Yexo> <ZirconiumX> I *can't* launch squirrel - as Finder won't launch it when I drag the file onto it <- most likely it's started and closed immediately afterwards
18:19:23 <ZirconiumX> Yexo: some kind of console != Yexo: don't start the interactive console at all
18:19:47 <Yexo> "some kind of console" = something like bash
18:19:52 <Yexo> or whatever you have on your system
18:20:10 <ZirconiumX> I'm using terminal
18:20:10 <Yexo> Yexo: don't start the interactive console at all <- don't start the _squirrel_ interactive console at all
18:20:39 <andythenorth> Yexo: did you start anything on the FIRS petrol pump code? I might look at it if no...
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18:21:06 <Yexo> andythenorth: yes, for the industry placement callback, not for the industry tiles one
18:21:22 <andythenorth> that's the route that's unsigned?
18:21:36 <Yexo> yes, the non-working one
18:22:14 <Yexo> it seemed to worked somewhat (for roads in the south)
18:23:03 <Yexo> ZirconiumX: well, there you have your useful error message :)
18:23:10 <andythenorth> I'll try the tile cb
18:23:30 <andythenorth> looks like the route is same as I would try wrt action 2 chain
18:24:12 <Yexo> you might be able to reuse most of the code by just substituting var 60 for var 62
18:24:21 <Yexo> however feel free to throw it all away and code it yourself
18:27:03 <andythenorth> I get registers, but not persistent storage in this cb?
18:27:16 <andythenorth> I misunderstood - I thought there were no registers
18:27:24 <Yexo> the industry is not yet created, so no persistent storage
18:27:46 <Yexo> register (=temporary storage, var 7D ?) are always available
18:27:50 <andythenorth> I was struggling to do it cleanly without registers :)
18:27:58 <andythenorth> it would have been quite...involved
18:28:19 <Yexo> it's easy, one varaction2 for every variable check
18:28:41 <Yexo> check class of one tile, if 2 return OK, otherwise go to next varaction2
18:28:56 <Yexo> might even be easier than the current code
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18:29:27 <andythenorth> I'll look into it
18:30:39 <ZirconiumX> ZirconiumX: /Users/ralphbrades/DStar_update/main.nut line = (152) column = (3) : error expression expected
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18:31:14 <ZirconiumX> if<expression>(res < 0) {
18:31:32 <Yexo> <ZirconiumX> if<expression>(res < 0) { <- is that your actual code?
18:32:00 <Yexo> and the line before that?
18:32:09 <ZirconiumX> my kingdom for a space
18:32:16 <Yexo> local cur = //Gah - unclear variable <- is that the line before?
18:32:23 <Yexo> if so, that's not valid code
18:32:55 * ZirconiumX is so stupid - he doesn't even read his own code
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18:38:08 <ZirconiumX> else if (getG(s_start) = infinity) { <---- line = (157) column = (25) : error can't assign expression
18:39:13 <Alberth> standard C/C++ problem :)
18:40:00 <SmatZ> badger badger badger badger badger badger
18:41:13 <SmatZ> it seems there is fishbot here, but /invite won't make him come here :(
18:47:11 <Alberth> LordAro: I heard you were looking for me
18:47:11 <Yexo> SmatZ: in that news message it says "when invited by channel owners"
18:47:55 <LordAro> yes, i was wondering about that function you pasted
18:48:12 <Yexo> besides that, I don't see a reason to invite that service here
18:48:58 <Alberth> did you figure out what it does?
18:49:03 <SmatZ> Yexo: yeah, I just tried if it can be invited ... anyway, it can be kicked whenever you want
18:49:20 <SmatZ> Alberth: it's just a bot that gives some funny replies, iirc
18:49:51 <Alberth> sounds like a contradiction :)
18:50:06 <Alberth> but actually, I was asking LordAro that question :)
18:50:12 <SmatZ> the link I posted is a joke :)
18:50:23 <Yexo> I just figured that out :p
18:50:30 <Yexo> sorry, should have looked at the date better
18:51:06 <LordAro> Alberth: yeah, mostly... :) (function name gives it away really :P )
18:51:45 <Alberth> LordAro: so, when do you want to have that information?
18:52:05 <LordAro> probably something to do with the button
18:52:37 <Alberth> that would be one place :)
18:53:46 <Alberth> does that answer your two questions?
18:54:24 <LordAro> pretty much... thanks for your *help* ;)
18:55:02 <Alberth> and thank you for answering your own questions :)
18:55:41 <LordAro> anyway, i'm trying to figure out whats up with my working dir, when running make it complains of *.o files
18:55:52 <LordAro> what's the best way to get rid of them?
18:56:18 <LordAro> something to do with 'grep' and 'del'
18:56:22 <Yexo> did you try deleting them?
18:56:33 <Alberth> there is another thing in there. Basically it tries to find a readme file, and reports whether it succeeded. You can use the file entry it found also for loading the text file
18:56:59 <LordAro> thats what i was hoping
18:57:30 <LordAro> Yexo: yes, but i don't know where they are, they're scattered through the directories
18:57:33 <Alberth> how does make complain?
18:58:27 <LordAro> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/lordaro/coding/trunk.hg/objs/lang'
18:58:27 <LordAro> [LANG] Compiling core/alloc_func.cpp
18:58:27 <LordAro> [LANG] Compiling and Linking strgen
18:58:27 <LordAro> getoptdata.o: file not recognized: File format not recognized
18:58:27 <LordAro> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
18:58:27 <LordAro> make[1]: *** [strgen] Error 1
18:58:29 <LordAro> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/lordaro/coding/trunk.hg/objs/lang'
18:58:29 <LordAro> make: *** [all] Error 1
18:58:41 <LordAro> (sorry about the spamming)
18:59:05 <SmatZ> LordAro: please use some pastebin service next time
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19:21:45 <glx> always try make clean first :)
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20:25:32 <supermop> why has the 'latest user screenshot' stayed the same for a couple years now?
20:27:50 <Yexo> either because nobody has sent new screenshots or because they haven't been sorted out yet
20:29:38 <supermop> where does one post a screen shot to be considered for that thing?
20:31:14 * andythenorth ponders this petrol pump placement business
20:32:06 <Yexo> if the "has to be placed next to a road" code works, perhaps the "must be build in town" flag could be dropped?
20:32:38 <andythenorth> that's the plan yes
20:32:43 <supermop> gas stations on highways
20:32:55 <andythenorth> the aim is to have gas stations in the middle of the desert :)
20:35:09 <Eddi|zuHause> sorry, lack of desert :p
20:35:41 * andythenorth has lack of working code so far :)
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20:48:50 <Terkhen> I have a lack of sleep, fortunately it can be solved :)
20:54:00 <planetmaker> sleep well, Terkhen
20:55:36 <planetmaker> supermop: I added late last year a couple of new screenshots to the screenshots collection...
20:56:06 <planetmaker> but... "the latest" obviously is something else than the screenshot collection
20:56:19 <planetmaker> it definitely is not "the latest" by many standards ;-)
20:58:58 <planetmaker> nah...it's supposed to be an eye-catcher for the main website. Would not be good, if everybody could edit that
21:01:20 <SpComb> you could apply draconian style guidelines and mercilessly remove people's submissions
21:02:49 <supermop> that would be a lot of work; i am assuming the old picture is still up because it is too much work to update
21:04:05 * andythenorth is having nfo failure
21:04:12 <andythenorth> maybe it's too late in the day
21:05:09 <planetmaker> supermop: mostly it's "no-one cared enough" and I currently don't exactly know where I'd have to look in the repo. But... feasible
21:11:04 * andythenorth finds reading spec is good solution to nfo troubles :P
21:12:14 <supermop> maybe it should be removed then?
21:12:44 <planetmaker> supermop: why should it be removed?
21:12:54 <supermop> i remember seing it as 'latest screen shot of 0.6.3' and thinking 'oh neat'
21:13:17 <supermop> then i saw the same picture as 'latest screen shot of 0.7.5'
21:13:24 <planetmaker> asilv: I *think* it's using some USSR landscape grfs
21:13:51 <andythenorth> Yexo: petrol pump might be working :)
21:15:32 <planetmaker> asilv: but I don't quite know where it can be obtained. Maybe check out george's site
21:15:42 <planetmaker> or the Russian community forums
21:16:09 <andythenorth> I'm getting 'too close to another industry' error on build for petrol pump when near another
21:16:16 <andythenorth> I've forgotten how to over-ride that
21:18:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: what about using the new intro screen there?
21:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and change the text to "user screenshots"
21:20:33 <planetmaker> I just opened all files in ~/Documents/OpenTTD in search for a possible good screenshot. That was NOT a good idea, though
21:20:58 <planetmaker> Like 681 images and unpacking a few tars and opening a few sav and cfg and ... bah!
21:21:19 * andythenorth builds a whole road full of petrol pumps
21:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: any sane image viewer could give you an overview of all images...
21:21:53 <Eddi|zuHause> i use gwenview for that here
21:21:54 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: that's what mine does. But opening the other stuff was not too bright ;-)
21:22:10 *** pius is now known as Kiporshnikov
21:22:49 <Eddi|zuHause> i just do "gwenview ~/.openttd" and it does all the rest.
21:23:03 <andythenorth> Yexo: there are some interesting edge cases :)
21:23:10 <andythenorth> like when a road is built on a steep slope
21:23:11 <planetmaker> I did cmd+a; cmd+o ;-)
21:23:34 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that indeed does not sound like a bright idea at all :p
21:25:57 <asilv> planetmaker,: I found xUSSR landscape but it is not the same
21:26:13 <asilv> although it looks pretty nice too
21:26:19 <planetmaker> asilv: then you have to continue to search. And please tell me which it is ;-)
21:26:33 <planetmaker> and where to find it ;-)
21:26:42 * andythenorth needs that var for count of industries per town
21:26:49 <andythenorth> when is it shipping? :P
21:30:31 <andythenorth> should player be able to build a petrol station anywhere? That's the general rule for FIRS
21:30:41 <andythenorth> or should it be limited to by a road?
21:31:03 <Yexo> in this case the limit is not really a limit, a player could build road, fund patrol station, remove road
21:31:16 <andythenorth> I think player can build anywhere in that case
21:31:24 <planetmaker> hm, there's the issue: screenshot.png is owned by root and not by the web application. Thus it's hard to change ;-)
21:36:22 <Kiporshnikov> Are there any decent public programs/patches for more advanced administration of servers?
21:37:16 <Kiporshnikov> I mean, I've seen chat commands like !resetme and all that around, are there any public versions of this?
21:47:10 <Kiporshnikov> Does that make use of the builtin admin commands?
21:52:17 <Ammler> well, if you mean the new admin interface
21:52:47 <Kiporshnikov> I mean the TCP Admin interface
21:54:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Kiporshnikov: dihedral is who you need to ask.
21:55:38 <Kiporshnikov> Well it was really an open question, was directed at anyone who could answer it
21:56:10 <SpComb> does anything make use of the new admin interface?
21:56:36 <Ammler> there are 2-3 libs already
21:56:41 <andythenorth> but I can't fix my location code
21:56:46 <Ammler> but no working end user app
21:56:57 <planetmaker> download the bundle from the hudson tab
21:57:08 <SpComb> at one point in time, I even patched in my own control socket
21:57:18 <SpComb> took screenshots and transmitted them back in-line
21:57:28 <SpComb> but cba anymore these days :)
21:58:03 <SpComb> send the PNG data via the same channel as the commands?
21:58:24 <Ammler> it saves the screen to the disk
21:58:39 <SpComb> and with the screenshot x, y, w, h specified in the command
21:58:44 <Kiporshnikov> Wouldn't it be better to just compile your control lib directly into OpenTTD. ap+ already requires you to modify openttd.exe.
21:59:00 <Kiporshnikov> Apart from issues when updating, is there any particular reason why you wouldn't do this?
21:59:04 <andythenorth> prospecting for secondary industries?
21:59:16 <Ammler> x,y is possible, w, h is fix from start
21:59:16 <SpComb> Kiporshnikov: OpenTTD needs to offer an out-of-process control interface, and that's what the new admin inteface is, I presume
21:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Kiporshnikov: no, that's a bad idea
21:59:24 <SpComb> just nobody actually uses it.. yet
21:59:31 <Yexo> <Kiporshnikov> Wouldn't it be better to just compile your control lib directly into OpenTTD. ap+ already requires you to modify openttd.exe. <- I think that's only true under windows
21:59:40 <Yexo> which I doubt is the biggest part of all servers
22:00:30 <SpComb> methinks Eddi|zuHause could just go as Eddi these days
22:00:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: patching the screenshot command to accept x,y,w,h should be trivial. look at the "zoomed-in screenshot" code, and replace the values there by parameters
22:01:08 <Ammler> people don't like the screenshot feature, so not worth to invest time in that :-)
22:02:40 <andythenorth> do any of the industry special flags limit to 'one per town'?
22:05:25 <planetmaker> Kiporshnikov: ap+ does not require a modified openttd at all
22:05:54 <planetmaker> possibly, as yexo mentions, on windows to become a console app. Dunno, I've no experience there
22:05:55 <Ammler> the screenshot feature patches building a bit
22:06:20 <Ammler> (if you make dedi version)
22:06:31 * andythenorth wonders why var 67 can check layout number of another industry, but not anything actually useful? :P
22:07:10 <Ammler> ap+ does not work on windows at all
22:07:46 <Yexo> andythenorth: why would the layout not be useful?
22:07:55 <andythenorth> what's the use case?
22:08:06 <Yexo> You could create one industry with 5 layouts, and allow only 1 instance of every layout
22:08:58 <Yexo> or you could let the accepted cargo types depend on the layout number and make sure there is enough distance between two industries with the same layout number
22:10:07 * andythenorth is also a bit puzzled about purpose of var 60
22:10:30 <andythenorth> it can detect IDs in other grfs etc
22:10:34 <andythenorth> which is interesting
22:10:47 <andythenorth> but it's unsigned, making it only 50% effective :o
22:10:59 <andythenorth> none of these solve my 'count of industry per town' problem :P
22:11:04 <Yexo> it can only detect tiles that are part of the current industry
22:11:18 <Yexo> and the offset is from the northernmost tile, so unsigned offset is not a limitation in this case
22:11:50 * andythenorth doesn't understand how to define an industry using tiles from another grf
22:11:57 <andythenorth> an old type - yes
22:12:08 <Yexo> you can't do that directly, but old types can be overriden by newgrfs
22:16:08 <andythenorth> Yexo: how about var 68 with a town ID in a register?
22:16:27 <Yexo> how would you get the town id?
22:16:55 <andythenorth> I thought there was a way to get it
22:17:07 <andythenorth> var 41 on cities
22:17:19 <Yexo> so what you actually want is var 68 limited to the same town as the current industry?
22:17:35 <Yexo> as that's the only town id you can get anyway
22:17:53 <Eddi|zuHause> you can get a random town id ;)
22:17:59 <SpComb> Ammler: mind, what "screenshot feature"?
22:18:02 <andythenorth> although you could use arbitrary town ids
22:18:07 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: but you can't be sure you have a valid town id
22:18:20 <andythenorth> fail in that case?
22:18:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: yeah, the game must have safeguards for that anyway...
22:18:42 <Yexo> sure, but that makes the case "pick some random value" useless
22:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> i was more or less joking anyway ;)
22:20:06 <andythenorth> that implies it might as well be a new var?
22:20:24 <planetmaker> SpComb: in the coop irc channel you can request a screenshot ^
22:20:27 <Yexo> works like var 68, only limited to industries that belong to the same town
22:20:32 <planetmaker> latest place of activity
22:20:42 <andythenorth> all these similar vars smells a bit wrong :)
22:20:50 <SpComb> Brianetta's webcam feature?
22:20:51 <andythenorth> seems like it should be a param or register
22:21:02 <Yexo> hmm, use bit 8 from register 101
22:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: something similar, yes.
22:21:13 <Yexo> if 1, limit to industries of the same town
22:21:25 <Yexo> perfectly backwards compatible, as 0 means current behavior
22:21:26 <Eddi|zuHause> he-who-has-a-highlight :p
22:21:39 <andythenorth> Yexo: sounds right
22:21:46 <SpComb> there's a fair few images in that dir
22:21:51 <andythenorth> slightly harder to use, but more correct :)
22:22:09 * SpComb had a real-time-updtaing version of his giant screenshot browser aaages ago
22:22:27 <andythenorth> SpComb: was it called 'VNC' ? :P
22:22:30 <SpComb> took the png tiles from the running openttd process instead of the giant screenshot .png
22:22:59 <Ammler> SpComb: dunno that feature, we just run "screenshot" from time to time or on request
22:23:05 <SpComb> and it worked quite fine, just slow
22:23:14 <SpComb> it updated every time you scrolled
22:23:30 <Eddi|zuHause> afaik Brianetta's server just took random locations, didn't keep track of activity
22:23:33 * planetmaker remembers that version
22:23:42 <planetmaker> (which spcomb mentioned)
22:23:52 <planetmaker> but that's... huge in comparison
22:24:18 <Ammler> yeah, at time where Truebrain worked on webdune :-)
22:25:06 <TrueBrain> hmmm ... webdune .... hmmm ....
22:25:24 <Brianetta> There was no way for a Tcl script wrapper to be aware of activity
22:27:58 <Ammler> Brianetta: we patch openttd slightly
22:31:50 <peter1138> Ammler, why use a table and a for() loop instead of a switch() ?
22:32:16 <Ammler> those are SmatzyPatchies :-)
22:34:15 <peter1138> You can skip the loop, and the nolog variable, and make the code shorter... by using a switch() block.
22:35:03 <SpComb> having it inline in the function is ugly
22:35:44 <Ammler> I guess, because it doesn't have any chance for trunk, he never cared about making a proper patch
22:42:39 <planetmaker> clock shows "ghost hour". Time for bed & good night to all
22:44:55 <Ammler> the ghosts are almost gone again
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continue to next day ⏵
