IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-11
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02:04:49 <adamkex> my plane just crashed, how do i replace it?
02:07:08 <Eddi|zuHause> adamkex: click on a hangar, click on "clone" and then on the crashed plane
02:08:37 <adamkex> Eddi|zuHause: yeah it took me a while, i thought i could only clone planes that were already inside the hangar..
02:14:55 <DorpsGek> __ln__: I have not seen Bjarte.
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04:45:46 <Bjarte> __ln__: I'm right here, damnit :P
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07:07:23 <planetmaker> haps = things happening? Dunno, just returned from weekend late last night :P
07:07:55 <pikka> o. been away for the weekend?
07:08:11 <planetmaker> yo. 4th birthday of my god-daughter :-)
07:08:38 <planetmaker> much more fun than boring copyright threads it seems ;-)
07:08:48 <pikka> I became an uncle on the weekend
07:08:56 <planetmaker> ho! Congratulations :-)
07:09:03 <pikka> much more fun, silly people
07:09:33 <pikka> well, congratulations to my sister :p
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07:11:40 <pikka> and now I am waiting for a bus, and there's no loo around here :{
07:11:41 <planetmaker> what would you think of a sticky on "licenses explained" or so in the graphics sub-forums?
07:11:58 <planetmaker> I think I have a half-finished blog posting which I could convert...
07:12:56 <pikka> It's hard to explain licences to people
07:13:26 <pikka> and I don't think it would avoid things like what happened this weekend
07:14:36 <pikka> I don't know how much it would help
07:15:21 <pikka> and of course not every grf author uses a major license for every release... most of mine, for instance.
07:15:53 <planetmaker> It wouldn't avoid that last thread, no. But it might help (new) authors to choose better informed and at the right place
07:16:06 <planetmaker> And IMHO it's as important as finding the right tools
07:16:31 <planetmaker> If they come to the conclusion to write their own - like you do - fine. But they should have *thought* about it ;-)
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07:18:45 <pikka> but if you want to pm something for comment, or even go right ahead and make a thread, ill look at it when I get home
07:19:25 <pikka> right now I guess I'd better get this bus on the road :)
07:19:39 <planetmaker> yeah, not sure I can finish it today. It needs still a bit of work, I think. I want to look at the individual licenses a bit more in detail than I do now
07:19:46 <planetmaker> enjoy the ride ;-)
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07:52:14 <LordAro> ok, i can confirm that a self-compiled ottd trunk (mingw-win32) crashes when running ./openttd -d5 (or any other -d setting)
08:02:30 <Terkhen> LordAro: configure it with --enable-console and try again
08:02:49 <Terkhen> or alternatively try to run it with -d5 from windows console, not from msys
08:04:27 <LordAro> aha! --enable-console works :)
08:05:28 <Terkhen> it is IMO a bug in msys, it can't open the extra console window that OpenTTD wants when compiled without --enable-console and using -d
08:06:22 <LordAro> never experienced it before... :/
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08:57:43 * norbert79 smells the flame burning in TT-Forums...ú
09:02:59 <norbert79> Such hastle about this... Simple: SAC 'borrowed' some images, wnated to take credit for it, while he could just avoid the whole flame by lisitng the authors from those, whom he has borrowed graphics from...
09:04:02 <norbert79> and it's not the creator's task to show themselves, but the borrower, who reused some grpahics to address the original creator
09:21:01 <norbert79> lol at Pikka.. Morning :)
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09:40:20 <Eddi|zuHause> now you scared him
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10:21:37 <norbert79> Welcome Santa Claus
10:22:44 <andythenorth> It's a bizarre love triangle
10:22:49 <andythenorth> For thieves like us
10:23:00 <andythenorth> Maybe we could all make up
10:23:04 <andythenorth> And have the perfect kiss
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10:39:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... CargoPayment does some magic that i don't really understand...
10:41:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see where the actual payment occurs...
10:43:20 <LordAro> is AllocateWindowDesc() used anymore? it's not in newgrf_gui.cpp...
10:43:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not actually sure what i want to do either...
10:45:05 <LordAro> what to do instead then... :L
10:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> either i want to introduce storing the last company in cargopacket, and when a vehicle loads which doesn't belong to that company, make a final payment and set transfer credit to 0
10:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> or i want to do that unconditionally for all transfers, and let the player responsibly take care of not hauling the cargo back and forth through transfers
10:49:15 <Eddi|zuHause> but CargoPayment::PayTransfer does not seem to do the actual payment, so i don't know what to change
10:56:26 <Hirundo> Eddi|zuHause: Payment is done in the destructor IIRC
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11:13:55 <andythenorth> Cries and whispers
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11:18:24 <Pikka> I am now use xchat because chatzilla goes mental and starts using 100% cpu if I close firefox, and also it's not that flash...
11:18:42 <planetmaker> good decision, Pikka :-)
11:19:40 <Pikka> so between this and yaaic I feel like a proper new-age ircer now
11:20:16 <Pikka> someone got angry with me for saying demomom
11:20:39 <planetmaker> demo-mum? Like a mum just for show-casing? ;-)
11:20:49 <Pikka> but it wasn't peter1138
11:21:04 <Pikka> like a demopan only different
11:21:14 <Scuddles> I thought it was like demoman
11:21:17 * planetmaker has no idea of either of those three words ;-)
11:21:23 <Scuddles> Not that that's much of a difference
11:21:42 <Scuddles> The demoman is one of the nine classes, he has pipes and stickies
11:21:46 <Pikka> but noone uses proper words any more
11:22:22 <Pikka> it's all team fortress 2, anyway
11:22:32 <Scuddles> More like team fortless 2
11:22:44 <Scuddles> Actually, it isn't even a fort
11:22:58 <Scuddles> isn't it already, yes D:
11:22:59 <planetmaker> sleep well, Mr Bird
11:23:05 <Scuddles> goodnight mister spoon
11:23:16 <Pikka> scuddles is it 11:23 in singapore?
11:23:50 <Scuddles> What are you even, Singapore's timezone is very Australiaish
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11:24:05 <Scuddles> Besides, if it was later I would be between hawaii and America
11:24:31 <Scuddles> I was, but only then
11:24:54 <Scuddles> Also japontimes and some-parts-of-Russia times
11:25:21 <Pikka> more boos to drive tomorrow, so now I must bedward
11:25:32 <Scuddles> I'll drive you're boose
11:25:42 <Pikka> you can try but you will crash
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11:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> what language were they speaking?!
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12:21:09 * ZirconiumX is wondering what heuristic I should use as a *basic* start
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13:05:18 <andythenorth> cars in the FIRS petrol station?
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15:05:04 <Eddi|zuHause> hmz... i read through the code all day, but i can't find the right place... i give up...
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15:32:31 <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause: right place for what?
15:33:13 <Eddi|zuHause> Yexo: modify transfer payment
15:34:42 <Eddi|zuHause> my thought was that transfer between companies isn't really working currently, as only the final delivery is accounted, every other company involved is getting nothing. so either when the company changes it should pay the previous company, or all transfers should be treated like final delivery
15:35:34 <Yexo> both of those solutions are fundamentally flawed
15:36:13 <Eddi|zuHause> especially the second one is easily abused
15:36:16 <Yexo> however if you don't expect foul play they might work well
15:38:32 <Eddi|zuHause> but the point is moot if i can't find the right place to patch...
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16:15:07 <yorick> is it impossible (using the admin interface) to poll the shareholders?
16:16:25 <Eddi|zuHause> for various values of "impossible"
16:18:35 <Eddi|zuHause> "manager's impossible" = "the program doesn't do it", "engineer's impossible" = "it's too much work to make the program do it" or "scientist's impossible" = "it is proven that it can't be done"?
16:19:15 <yorick> this is a manager's impossible?
16:20:39 <Ammler> could be solved with a patch then :-P
16:21:41 <yorick> which would require a protocol change
16:23:48 <Ammler> doesn't it support versioning for such reason?
16:25:30 <yorick> better add faces and secondary colors too, also fix the ADMIN_PACKET_ADMIN_UPDATE_FREQUENCY to use a uint8 for AdminUpdateType
16:25:39 <yorick> if the protocol is changed anyways
16:26:14 <yorick> it only supports versioning handles by the client, not the server :(
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16:34:50 <Ruudjah> any way to disable automatic orders? The one thng openttd tries to do for me, does it very bad
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16:36:10 <Ruudjah> (sorry for the troll)
16:36:34 <planetmaker> Ruudjah, there isn't. But automatic orders do NOT influence where a train goes
16:37:09 <planetmaker> it's just a (visual) feedback of which stations a train (also) visits due to the manual orders you gave
16:37:37 <planetmaker> so, if you're unhappy with it, reconsider your orders ;-)
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16:41:25 <Ruudjah> and there was no way to change the orders
16:41:37 <Ruudjah> because it was adding/removing orders like crazy
16:41:55 <Ruudjah> every second it removed 10 orders and added 10 orders
16:42:09 <Ruudjah> so I was unable to fix em
16:42:38 <Ruudjah> then I was like whatever, and stopped the game
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16:46:00 <Ruudjah> Also I noted automatic orders which should not be there
16:46:54 <Ruudjah> but kept adding removing automatic orders
16:46:57 <planetmaker> well, that's bad depot placement then probably
16:47:23 <planetmaker> if you think it's a bug, make a bug report and attach the savegame
16:47:30 <ZirconiumX> I notice that in the AyStar Pathfinder, in the constructor() there are all the altered properties - Is this neccessary?
16:48:02 <planetmaker> otherwise it's kinda hard to follow, Ruudjah ;-)
16:48:19 * Ruudjah thinks there should be a bugreport button, presenting user with desc form+uploading all debug info automagically
16:48:35 * Ruudjah also knows he prolly has to build it himself
16:49:55 <Ruudjah> If all the bugs I classify as bugs I'd report, it would be dayjob
16:50:44 <ZirconiumX> We could ask a dev to do something like @bugs
16:51:00 <ZirconiumX> or something stupid like that
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16:52:11 <ZirconiumX> I'll add the stuff in constructor()
16:52:54 <planetmaker> Ruudjah, just mind that we cannot fix anything we don't know about. So every software project needs people to actually put the finger on things which they consider a bug.
16:53:39 <Terkhen> there was a forum thread about automatic bug reporting recently, the reasons why that is not a good idea are exposed there
16:54:29 * planetmaker must have missed it.
16:54:36 * planetmaker also would call it regression testing ;-)
16:57:35 * ZirconiumX rants on about how many 'state u''s there are in the Dstar code
16:58:14 <Terkhen> strange, I cannot find it... maybe I just dreamed about it
16:58:25 <LordAro> hmmm - Alberth hasn't turned up today
16:59:52 <frosch123> Terkhen: wasn't it a fs task?
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17:01:26 <Terkhen> you are right, thanks :)
17:02:23 <planetmaker> missed that, too :S
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17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22318 /trunk/src/lang/ (catalan.txt croatian.txt korean.txt):
17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changes by arnau
17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 1 changes by VoyagerOne
17:45:41 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 1 changes by junho2813
17:47:34 <ZirconiumX> @AI devs/gurus, is there a function similar to rand() in C?
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18:12:26 <LordAro> gah, where is alberth when you want him?
18:14:37 <Ammler> no excuse, if LordAro needs him
18:14:59 <Terkhen> don't caring can work in both directions ;)
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18:20:05 <LordAro> with mq, how to output all patches as one? the mercurial wiki says: "hg diff -r $(hg parents -r qbase --template '#rev#') -r qtip", but that doesn't work - "hg: parse error at 0: syntax error"
18:21:34 <Ammler> LordAro: hg diff -r.:qparent
18:21:45 <Ammler> or just hg diff -r qparent
18:22:16 <Ammler> that does make a patch of all applied patches
18:23:02 <LordAro> and does it need changing?
18:23:39 <Ammler> no idea, I don't use that wiki
18:23:50 <Ammler> i use hg help and man hg
18:24:26 * planetmaker does usually the same as Ammler
18:25:23 <Ammler> hginit.com is nice for starters
18:26:11 <andythenorth> supermop: did you figure out version control yet? :)
18:26:57 <Ammler> LordAro: and you should do what 8.4/8.5 suggests in that wiki
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18:29:23 <LordAro> tell alberth i waited for him :')
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19:33:44 * andythenorth wonders what else CHIPS needs
19:33:57 <andythenorth> besides some drawings, which I am too lazy to do right now
19:36:02 * andythenorth thinks it might be a valid point
19:38:30 <andythenorth> at the name? Or the grf? :P
19:40:51 <yorick> too bad FISH isn't the industry set
19:41:41 <andythenorth> the industry set should be MAYO
19:41:58 <andythenorth> MAYO sounds like an objects set
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19:42:28 <yorick> PEAS should be an Aircraft Set
19:44:07 <yorick> PEAS Extended Aircraft Set :)
19:44:11 <andythenorth> MAYO Adds Your Objects
19:45:12 <yorick> Peace Ends All Sadness?
19:45:17 <Prof_Frink> I'm struggling with CURRYSAUCE.
19:47:49 <yorick> CURRYSAUCE Unique Railroad Renewal Yet Still Awesome U CE?
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19:49:39 <yorick> YIARA is a recursive acronym :(
19:54:00 <confound> andythenorth: I am boggled that that was confusing someone
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20:11:25 <Yexo> andythenorth: easy solution might be to make the menu display no buffers at all
20:11:51 <andythenorth> if it's possible...
20:11:55 <andythenorth> then it should be done :)
20:16:44 <planetmaker> (or is that different for stations?)
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20:27:22 <andythenorth> sometime we should give CHIPS it's own menu entry too
20:40:33 <Ruudjah> 06:52 planetmaker: true. The first thing I do for projects is to include a bugreporter ;)
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20:52:25 <flitz> hm, what would be a good method to determine whether a vehicle in a consist is a locomotive or a wagon ? Ask if its power is > 0 ?
20:52:40 <flitz> I found no function to determine this easily
20:53:09 <frosch123> flitz: IsPrimaryVehicle
20:53:19 <frosch123> tests for a front-engine
20:53:44 <frosch123> if you want to test for other non-front engines there is likely also some IsEngine or so
20:53:54 <frosch123> take a look at Train or GroundVehicle class
20:54:07 <flitz> this is what I didn't found, at least not in Vehicle and Train
20:54:16 <flitz> I want to test mid-consist vehicles
20:54:27 <flitz> let me take a look at ground vehicle, brb
20:54:37 <frosch123> yeah, it's in GroundVehicle
20:55:42 <flitz> IsWagon, very convenient -if one looks at the right place ;)
20:56:53 <frosch123> keep in mind that not everything is either wagon or engine :)
20:57:08 <Yexo> and some engines can also transport cargo
20:57:52 <planetmaker> and some wagons add power...
20:58:29 <planetmaker> and some are cabooses and are required in order to extend the length beyond xy tiles. Etc pp
20:58:52 <planetmaker> but "caboose" is nothing which can be tested by AIs
20:59:51 <planetmaker> sounds tempting. Good night, too
21:00:10 <Eddi|zuHause> there is an AI callback (18?), but it's not powerful enough
21:00:34 <Yexo> and therefor not implemented in openttd
21:01:05 <Eddi|zuHause> only for stations, not for trains
21:01:25 <flitz> and some wagons add power... <<-- yes, I just wanted to extract vehicles from a consist that are able to pull the consist in the role of primary engine
21:01:46 <flitz> I'm not sure whether it makes much gameplay sense, though
21:11:46 <andythenorth> dropping like flies :P
21:13:35 <andythenorth> with FIRS nightly, my entire map is now full of recycling depots :o
21:13:45 * andythenorth does exaggerate a bit
21:13:52 <andythenorth> there are 181 of them
21:14:02 <andythenorth> about 5 per town
21:16:41 <flitz> they recycle ... vehicles ?
21:17:06 <andythenorth> flitz: they produce Recyclables cargo
21:17:19 <Nite> trein status bar, speed still flickering
21:17:44 <flitz> but they are still depots which refit and buy vehicles ?
21:18:02 <andythenorth> they're an industry
21:18:28 <Nite> it seems when a train cannot reach full speed it sometimes does like 99,5 kmh ... hten the display "flickers" between 99 and 100 constantly
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21:19:10 <Nite> as i remember in 1.0 only every 2nd kmh was shown (= 2, 4, 6, 8, and so on)
21:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: test savegame?
21:20:02 <Nite> just run any train with weak engine it happens often
21:21:34 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i didn't express myself clear enough.
21:21:37 <Eddi|zuHause> Nite: test savegame!
21:22:14 <Nite> i remember old digital tachometers in real cars did this too (audi quattro)
21:22:52 <Nite> where to drop that savegame?
21:22:59 <Eddi|zuHause> bugs.openttd.org
21:28:39 <Nite> savegame in future maybee
21:31:54 * andythenorth does some improving
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22:06:32 * andythenorth has drawn flowers around a farmhouse
22:06:38 <andythenorth> but maybe they look like sick
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22:10:18 <Ammler> someone ever converted mediawiki db from latin1 to utf-8?
22:10:50 <Ammler> I am not able to and internet search doesn't really help :-(
22:11:27 <Ammler> keys are going to beckome to big
22:11:35 <Eddi|zuHause> is that not something easily with sql dump and iconv?
22:12:09 <Ammler> yep, usually that works
22:12:27 <Ammler> well, I might need to convert every table manually
22:19:00 <Ammler> ERROR 1071 (42000) at line 409: Specified key was too long; max key length is 1000 bytes
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