IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-04-01
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01:23:41 <supermop> this map taking forever
01:29:41 <Eddi|zuHause> you missing auxilliary verb
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01:37:19 <confound> ha
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01:51:40 <supermop> gah taxes
01:52:08 <supermop> earned 18 cents interest on this account last year
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02:40:49 <Eddi|zuHause> can't you earn something like 1000 euro interest without paying taxes?
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02:45:58 <supermop> maybe
02:46:12 <supermop> but i am not paying eu taxes
02:46:38 <supermop> i would be surprised if they taxed me on that income, but i have to report it anyway
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05:45:29 <LordAro> moin
05:47:51 <LordAro> grrr @ laserdog
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05:56:53 <Terkhen> good morning
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05:57:11 <LordAro> moin Terkhen
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07:39:08 <Alberth> ha, new /topic :)
07:41:31 <planetmaker> :-)
07:41:37 <planetmaker> moin
07:41:41 <Alberth> moin planetmaker
07:49:33 <Terkhen> :)
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11:19:00 <Chris_Booth> afternoon all
11:20:23 * andythenorth_ ponders updating FIRS wiki
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11:23:50 * andythenorth_ will offer some kind of prize for wiki updates
11:29:47 <Chris_Booth> if the prize is a pat on the back then count me ou andythenorth_
11:30:34 * andythenorth_ counts Chris_Booth ou
11:30:41 <andythenorth_> is ou a prime?
11:31:52 <Chris_Booth> ooh sarcasm you kill me, next time I will proof read my lines befor hitting the return key.
11:32:09 <Chris_Booth> if the prize is a pat on the back then count me Oh You Tee andythenorth_
11:32:11 <Chris_Booth> :D
11:32:37 <andythenorth_> and if the prize *isn't* a pat on the back? I can count you in?
11:33:45 <Chris_Booth> yes
11:34:14 <andythenorth_> the prize isn't a pat on the back :D
11:34:22 <andythenorth_> let me know when you're done ;)
11:35:17 * Chris_Booth wonders what the prize realy is
11:37:08 <Eddi|zuHause> a propos tea...
11:41:52 <Alberth> becoming a FIRS expert, and owning a few FIRS wiki pages?
11:42:10 <andythenorth_> I could name FIRS stations after you? :P
11:42:24 <andythenorth_> Pfuninghall Glass Works Chris Booth
11:42:34 <andythenorth_> Mapletown Coal Alberth
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11:42:53 <andythenorth_> Didington Textile Eddi
11:48:09 <confound> works for me
11:48:32 <confound> "Didington Textile Eddi zu Hause" though
11:48:39 <confound> :P
11:51:12 <Alberth> make a town newgrf :p
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11:52:28 <planetmaker> :-D
11:52:38 <planetmaker> Now, that'd be indeed an awesome idea ;-)
11:53:28 <SmatZ> :-D
11:53:44 <Ammler> Rubidium: thanks to Canterbury, one build for 4 distros :-)
11:53:55 <Ammler> 5*
11:54:05 <planetmaker> Add some prefixes and we get things like "Old SmatZ" "SmatZ by the sea" etc ;-)
11:54:12 <andythenorth_> ha
11:54:20 * andythenorth_ would prefer to be 'thenorth'
11:54:26 <planetmaker> and of course "South andythenorth" ;-)
11:54:39 <andythenorth_> hmm
11:54:41 <andythenorth_> today is april 1
11:54:45 <andythenorth_> where is pikka?
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12:00:33 <Eddi|zuHause> ... cargodist handling of removed links is... suboptimal...
12:02:14 <SmatZ> :D
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12:05:30 * andythenorth_ is learning about pyramid
12:06:07 <andythenorth_>
12:11:02 <fonsinchen> Yes, I know. I should implement that drop on order removal thing ... I only need to find the time for it.
12:13:17 * andythenorth_ ponders repainting FIRS glassworks
12:13:22 <andythenorth_> but is not sure what to
12:13:27 <andythenorth_> brick is easiest to paint
12:16:20 <andythenorth_>
12:17:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r22284 /trunk/src/direction_func.h: -Codechange [FS#4564]: cast values to uint before computing modulus in direction_func.h, so compiler can generate superior code (adf88)
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12:53:10 <Wolf01> hello
12:59:02 <Belugas> hello
13:00:52 <Neon> hello
13:02:56 <__ln__> hello
13:19:07 <DanMacK> Hey all
13:19:49 <__ln__> DanMacK: your greeting is not standard-conforming
13:20:21 <SpComb> hi yall
13:20:56 <DanMacK> heh
13:21:13 * DanMacK refuses to conform to any standards and follows his own path
13:24:18 <Belugas> go man, go!
13:24:20 <Belugas> Anarchy!!
13:24:54 * Belugas puts on his studded belt and starts playing some Metallica
13:25:20 <SpComb> someone remind me what my skype password is
13:25:37 <andythenorth_> 12345
13:25:49 <SpComb> nope
13:29:54 * andythenorth_ wonders
13:30:05 <andythenorth_> if we start drawing on presumption that rv-wagons will be done....
13:30:10 <andythenorth_> ...what will happen?
13:32:57 <Alberth> you have new graphics
13:33:29 <andythenorth_> pah
13:33:42 <andythenorth_> we need (another) nice RV set
13:34:39 <planetmaker> we need so many new sets :-P
13:34:51 <planetmaker> "need"
13:35:03 <DanMacK> We need a realistic futuristic set
13:35:08 <andythenorth_> omg
13:35:11 <andythenorth_> that's a good idea
13:35:14 <andythenorth_> lets work on one
13:35:14 <DanMacK> Toyland2Mars is ridiculous
13:36:06 <planetmaker> DanMacK, it 'only' needs proper industries and water
13:36:11 <DanMacK> Replace the cargos with realistic ones as opposed to the toyland ones
13:36:25 <planetmaker> one of the reasons to allow FIRS also for toyland ;-)
13:36:33 <andythenorth_> or...not
13:36:37 <DanMacK> lol
13:36:40 <planetmaker> and vehicle sets also
13:36:53 <DanMacK> FISH and HEQS work w/toyland
13:37:12 <planetmaker> but basically toyland2mars should be a more generic climate2mars thingy
13:37:16 <andythenorth_> only because I couldn't be bothered to prevent them
13:37:47 <planetmaker> hm... convince me to add such landscape sprites to OpenGFX+ landscape and provide me with them ;-)
13:38:03 <planetmaker> andythenorth_, why would you bother to disallow them there?
13:38:22 <andythenorth_> exactly
13:38:38 <planetmaker> people usually are more crazy than one can imaging ;-)
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13:54:53 <Eddi|zuHause> xk3d... haha :p
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13:57:42 <pugi> wow :D
13:57:45 <norbert79> Good day guys...
13:58:05 <norbert79> Question: What happened to strgen?
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13:58:49 <Yexo> norbert79: what about it? it's still in use
13:59:03 <norbert79> Yexo:
13:59:10 <norbert79> Well, I failed finding any files here
14:00:19 <Eddi|zuHause> what about
14:00:25 <norbert79> I normally do a full update on any of the tools coming with OpenTTD, when a new stable release comes out, and got 'stuck' at updating strgen
14:00:37 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: 0.7.2 is rather very old, isn't it?
14:00:48 <Eddi|zuHause> strgen doesn't usually change much
14:00:57 <Ammler> strgen is part of openttd, isn't?
14:01:17 <norbert79> Ammler: wasn't able to find it in the Zipped file
14:01:22 <Yexo> yes, but I don't think it's distributed together with the binaries
14:01:35 <norbert79> Eddi|zuHause: Well, according to the changelog it does.. Nopt a huge issue, but I though I would address it
14:01:52 <Ammler> norbert79: it might need building
14:02:02 <Ammler> I meant part of the openttd source
14:02:33 <norbert79> Ammler: Probably, but it's just weird, because it was there when 1.0.5 came out, now the whole thing is just gone, and last update was long time ago
14:02:51 <Yexo> I really have no idea
14:03:12 <norbert79> r22145 came out end of February, doubt compiling takes that long :)
14:03:40 <norbert79> Never mind, just wanted to address the issue, I am fine with r21445 too
14:03:56 <Ammler> what is it needed for?
14:04:24 <Yexo> compiling your own language files
14:04:46 <Ammler> how does openttd build the lang files on building?
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14:04:52 <Yexo> with strgen
14:05:12 <Ammler> but then it has to be part of the openttd source
14:05:25 <Yexo> it is, it's just not part of the binary openttd distributions
14:05:33 <Ammler> I do not remember ever made a strgen package :-)
14:05:47 <norbert79> I do sometimes when checking some translation-fixes
14:05:48 <Yexo> I don't see why you ever should
14:06:14 <Yexo> Ammler: but if you compile openttd the first step will be "compiling and linking strgen"
14:06:25 <Ammler> norbert79: check ./objs/lang/strgen
14:06:38 <Ammler> it should be there
14:06:39 <Yexo> Ammler: that only works if you have a complete source checkout
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14:06:49 <norbert79> I prefer the usage of strgen seperate, cause I don't have any compiling option available, and switch between OS's often
14:07:09 <norbert79> so I prefer the binary
14:07:11 <Ammler> Yexo: no
14:07:17 <Ammler> it is part of openttd trunk
14:08:23 <Ammler> well, if you make your custom lang file, you quite possibly need the source, don't you?
14:08:44 <Yexo> you don't
14:08:50 <Yexo> you only need strgen and english.txt
14:08:51 <Ammler> how you know the strings?
14:09:02 <Ammler> where do you get english.txt?
14:09:16 <Yexo> that file is part of openttd packages IIRC
14:09:30 <Alberth> from
14:09:38 <Alberth> but it is just 1 file
14:09:59 <norbert79> Ammler: How do you create just the language file if you cannot compile the whole package just for one language file, besides if you don't even want to... Thats why the usage of strgen
14:10:02 <Ammler> Yexo: that would suprise me :-)
14:10:55 <norbert79> Aw, guys, never mind, forget it, I will use the older version. Gosh, such a hassle... I just wanted to report an issue, thats it...
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14:11:10 <Ammler> maybe we should make a openttd-devel package
14:11:26 <planetmaker> he... he used to have more patience
14:12:02 <Alberth> Ammler: would mostly only contain strgen, wouldn't it ?
14:12:22 <planetmaker>
14:12:23 <Ammler> Alberth: maybe some ai stuff?
14:12:31 <planetmaker> just get it and be happy ;-)
14:12:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: norbert just told that that doesn't work anymore
14:12:44 <planetmaker> though... hum... no download :-O
14:12:45 <Yexo> there are no separate binaries related to AIs
14:13:05 <Alberth> unless you count the squirrel manual :)
14:13:44 <Ammler> dunno, I thought I saw a subpackage from fedora or debian about that
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14:20:17 <glx> planetmaker: of course, compile failed ;)
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14:21:03 <glx> undefined reference to `GetOptData::GetOpt()' for all platforms
14:21:52 <glx> and nobody told us
14:22:20 <Eddi|zuHause> well... e just told us ;)
14:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> *he
14:24:41 <Wolf01> does anybody of you have a router with the dd-wrt firmware?
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14:35:26 <confound> I do
14:35:34 <confound> Wolf01: why?
14:35:49 <Wolf01> I created another virtual wlan
14:35:56 <confound> haven't done anything that complex, sorry
14:36:03 <Wolf01> I have problem accessing to internet with that one
14:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> need to set up a bridge?
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14:36:24 <Wolf01> already done :(
14:37:04 <Eddi|zuHause> is it iptables based?
14:37:31 <Wolf01> or better, if I do not separate the two networks all works (one with 192.168.1.x and the other with 192.168.2.x)
14:37:37 <Wolf01> yes it's iptables based
14:38:33 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, if you use 1.x and 2.x, a bridge won't work, need to do internal routing then
14:38:37 <Wolf01> I'm stuck there
14:40:04 <Wolf01> (it's configured as WAP)
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14:41:30 <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: i have not worked with iptables directly, but in suse i had to set up the "internal" interfaces, and define that it should do routing/masquerading from internal interfaces (eth0, eth1) to the internet (dsl0), and between internal interfaces
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17:45:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r22285 /trunk/src/lang/slovak.txt:
17:45:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:32 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: slovak - 45 changes by teso
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18:41:30 * andythenorth_ seeks a var for the number of industries per town
18:41:35 <andythenorth_> and may be overlooking it
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18:41:48 <andythenorth_> 'distance to nearest' is of no use for this
18:42:07 <Lakie> total number of industries regardless of type?
18:42:17 <Lakie> I don't think it exists...
18:42:53 * andythenorth_ would like a new var please
18:42:55 <andythenorth_> thankyou
18:43:07 <Alberth> number of industries / number of towns ?
18:43:08 <andythenorth_> vars 64, 67 and 68 don't do it
18:43:19 <Lakie> If you don't mind, why?
18:43:20 <andythenorth_> return count of industries in a town
18:43:30 <andythenorth_> want to restrict an industry type to one per town
18:44:07 <Lakie> Thats not so bad, I thought you were going to limit total number of all types per towm which is less useful.
18:44:07 <frosch123> that var does not exist yet, but it is on the list of town_control. (though that does not help you :p)
18:44:13 <andythenorth_> can probably work similarly to var 67
18:44:13 <Yexo> restrict to distance < 15 from center and distance 30 from other of the same type doesn't work?
18:44:22 <andythenorth_> unlikely to work well
18:44:35 <andythenorth_> there is an alternative method to solve this
18:44:54 <andythenorth_> get count of industries per town, divide production by number of industries
18:44:55 <Alberth> isn't there an advanced setting for that?
18:44:58 <andythenorth_> needs same far :P
18:45:05 <andythenorth_> var /s
18:45:07 <frosch123> oh, i lied, that var i mentioned is not for a specific industry type
18:45:11 <Yexo> Alberth: yes, indeed
18:45:30 <andythenorth_> the advanced settings are all on bonkers wrt industries
18:45:33 <andythenorth_> I ignore them
18:45:59 <andythenorth_> my sentences are also bonkers
18:46:03 <andythenorth_> I need my brain checked
18:46:08 <andythenorth_> wrt spelling
18:46:44 <andythenorth_> is there a suitable data structure for this new var?
18:46:50 <andythenorth_> or does it involve evil?
18:47:14 <andythenorth_> i.e do towns already have a list of industries somehow?
18:47:21 <andythenorth_> or would it involve walking around lots of tiles?
18:47:26 <supermop> are you trying to fix the name thing?
18:47:33 <andythenorth_> supermop: no
18:47:52 <Yexo> andythenorth_: no, it'd involve looping over all industries and checking whether they belong to the given town/type
18:48:06 <andythenorth_> could a list be cached when an industry is created?
18:48:12 <andythenorth_> and cleared when it is destroyed?
18:48:18 <Yexo> sure
18:48:26 <andythenorth_> is that muchos work?
18:48:28 <Yexo> a similar thing is already done for engines
18:48:30 <confound> andythebonkers
18:49:15 <supermop> wait, does firs still create clusters?
18:49:18 <andythenorth_> yes
18:49:29 <supermop> wouldn't this hurt that ability?
18:49:41 <andythenorth_> no
18:49:59 <andythenorth_> the recycling depot industry has production tied to town population
18:50:06 <confound> I assume andy only wants it for a specific industry type
18:50:08 <andythenorth_> which is much requested and I happen to like it
18:50:22 <andythenorth_> if there are two recycling depots per town, it's going to be fail
18:51:17 <andythenorth_> possibly I can use one of the action 0 special flags, might be one of them limits to one industry per town
18:51:25 <andythenorth_> but it's no documented, and I haven't read src
18:51:32 <andythenorth_> in any case, that will suck
18:51:49 <andythenorth_> I want more control over placement given the 1997 build date
18:52:02 <andythenorth_> no point putting a major industry right in the middle of town with no way to service it
18:52:06 <frosch123> don't houses have a var for number in town / on map
18:52:16 * andythenorth_ checks
18:52:18 <Yexo> they do
18:52:28 <Yexo> though maybe only per house class, not sure
18:52:35 <andythenorth_> var 44
18:52:37 <frosch123> maybe both
18:52:45 <andythenorth_>
18:53:24 <frosch123> yeah, 8 bits for number of houses on whole map :p
18:53:42 <frosch123> should work fine on 64x64 map though
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18:56:57 <andythenorth_> frosch123: think of this var as one step on the road to town control
18:56:59 <andythenorth_> :)
18:57:09 <andythenorth_> a journey of a thousand miles....and all that
18:57:42 <frosch123> nope, town control disencourage exposing specific ids of industries and houses :p
18:58:36 <planetmaker> houses have number per type as check
18:59:18 <andythenorth_> frosch123: because town control relies on newgrf authors using persistent storage?
18:59:39 * andythenorth_ could stick a count into town persistent storage each time an industry is built...
18:59:47 <andythenorth_> that would work very well for this case
18:59:49 <andythenorth_> no new vars
18:59:50 <andythenorth_> no caching
19:00:00 <andythenorth_> just some magic
19:00:09 <frosch123> :p
19:00:32 <andythenorth_> but it would work... :)
19:00:35 <andythenorth_> really very well
19:00:54 <andythenorth_> could towns have grf-local and grf-shared storage?
19:00:56 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: 64*64 is more than 8 bits, but don't trust my calculation skills :p
19:01:07 <andythenorth_> grf-shared storage seems dangerous :(
19:01:12 <andythenorth_> but might be necessary
19:01:47 <andythenorth_> grf-local, with a getter/setter for other grfs using grfid?
19:03:06 <frosch123> andythenorth_: grf-shared is important for stuff like ecs
19:03:33 <andythenorth_> has to have some guarding of some kind?
19:03:44 <planetmaker> grf-shared is dangerous but nice. Is there something like GRM for it?
19:03:47 <andythenorth_> can't just rely on n slots per town, available to all
19:04:46 <frosch123> <- it's all written there
19:05:01 <frosch123> planetmaker: reserving is stupid
19:05:03 <andythenorth_> you had some unanswered questions about storage though iirc?
19:05:26 <frosch123> the default behaviour of newgrfs should be that they do not break other grfs, except they explicitly want to :p
19:05:47 <planetmaker> frosch123: why? If I am a town grf and want to use 'some' storage for whatever, but I want to make sure that it doesn't collide with <whateverelse>?
19:06:25 <frosch123> planetmaker: but it relies on the grfs to actually do the reservation
19:06:54 <planetmaker> well, yes. Another solution would be a "global storage pool"
19:07:00 <frosch123> the default case should be "exclusive use", and not "it is the job the grfs to avoid conflicts"
19:07:10 <planetmaker> where I can define a name which other grfs could also refer to, if they know the name
19:07:17 <frosch123> that's by grm never worked :p
19:07:28 <supermop> i wonder how some 80's style ink on mylar axon drawings would look as a set
19:07:34 <frosch123> planetmaker: you mean option 3?
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19:07:44 <supermop> althought it would have to be skewed isometric
19:08:09 * planetmaker actually reads the link ;-)
19:09:03 <planetmaker> so yes, something similar like option3
19:10:04 <andythenorth_> I don't like option 2
19:10:06 <andythenorth_> can't tell you why
19:10:11 <andythenorth_> smells funny
19:10:19 <andythenorth_> option 1 looks entirely workable as described
19:10:26 <andythenorth_> I don't understand option 3 entirely
19:10:29 <frosch123> andythenorth_: that's what is done for engines
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19:10:54 <frosch123> (option2 that is)
19:12:47 <andythenorth_> it seems fragile somehow
19:12:54 <andythenorth_> even though I can see how it would be robust
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19:14:12 <frosch123> andythenorth_: option 1 is the most powerful one, as it allows at least 256 registers per grfid, and allows accessing every single variable of every grf
19:15:02 <frosch123> option 3 limits it to 16 registers per grf-id, and access to 16 grfs. (though this is not entirely true anymore since we have 32 bit parameters for 60+x variables)
19:15:20 <andythenorth_> what's the downside to option 1?
19:16:12 <frosch123> you always need to store something in var 100 first, if you want to access stuff from other grfsd
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19:16:33 <andythenorth_> that's fine
19:16:41 <frosch123> making it complicated if you need to compute stuff by combining values from different grfs
19:16:49 <frosch123> though that is likely rarey needed
19:16:55 <frosch123> and a bogus reason since nml :p
19:17:10 <andythenorth_> it's not much more complicated than most industry code
19:17:23 <andythenorth_> anyone writing town control code is going to have to deal with complicated stuff
19:17:45 * andythenorth_ wouldn't mind a high barrier to entry for town control coding
19:18:53 <frosch123> anyway, the most questionable questions about town control were "are 40+x and 60+x variables any sane?"
19:19:11 <frosch123> i.e. population limited to 16bit, distinguishing between nearest town and nearest city
19:19:22 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: speaking of town control, when you set TE_WATER for goods, do you remove TE_GOODS?
19:19:23 <frosch123> and the various combinations of these
19:19:35 <andythenorth_> Eddi|zuHause: can't remember
19:20:08 <andythenorth_> what does the code say? :)
19:20:11 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: the towneffect is no bitset, every cargo can only have one
19:20:13 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: because firs goods don't seem to work with the town growth patch in Chill's PatchPack
19:20:42 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: aha. that explains it then.
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19:27:52 <Neon> Is there an option to enable/disable subsidies on a (dedicated) server? I'm playing on one and there's still no single subsidy. D:
19:28:16 <Neon> lol nvm it just took a while
19:29:19 <supermop> hey, here is something i should know better about
19:29:28 <supermop> but anyway
19:30:14 <supermop> like an idiot i have been slaving over a map i made from a radar elevation image of the mississippi-missouri confluence
19:30:48 <supermop> there were a lot of spurious hills and ridges, as well as gaps in rivers caused by noise in the image
19:31:22 <supermop> can i save what i have created in the scenario editor so far in a format that is newgrf agnostic?
19:31:30 <Neon> Thanks for your help btw
19:32:02 <supermop> letting me later play a game on it with various newgrfs that i may or may not have at the time of using the scenario editor
19:39:09 <Yexo> supermop: you can't
19:39:28 <Yexo> Alberth had some ideas on that, but I have no idea how far he's progressed with that
19:40:00 <supermop> oh man
19:40:07 <Alberth> what ideas?
19:40:12 <Yexo> the best you can do currently is work only on the image and not directly in the scenario editor
19:40:22 <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: newgrf-free scenarios
19:40:23 <supermop> yeah,
19:40:43 <supermop> need to use the editor to add (non-sea) rivers
19:40:57 <supermop> which i guess are newgrf dependent themselves
19:41:02 <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause was earlier than me afaik :)
19:45:35 <supermop> could the editor interpret other channels as other features? ie lumenosity is height, R channel is rocks, G is trees, B is water?
19:46:02 <supermop> with colors being binary
19:46:20 <supermop> ie any red equals rock, no red equals no rock
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19:48:16 <Alberth> you also want towns, industries, perhaps some roads
19:48:51 <supermop> nope
19:49:13 <supermop> as industries would newgrf specific
19:49:37 <andythenorth_> frosch123: town var 44 looks....odd
19:49:47 <andythenorth_> can't imagine yet a use for it
19:50:11 <andythenorth_> I guess total / serviced might be useful
19:51:11 <frosch123> you can compute that from 44, so 44 should be more useful
19:51:16 <andythenorth_> yes
19:51:21 <andythenorth_> that's what I meant ;)
19:51:35 <andythenorth_> there seem to be quite a lot of vars
19:51:44 <andythenorth_> I guess we always find uses for them :o
19:52:01 * andythenorth_ is a bit scared of how complicated people could make town growth
19:52:10 <Alberth> supermop: yes, but some designers may want to make a scenario for a certain vehicle set, industry set, or house set. I think it should be possible at least to state a 'preferred' set by the author.
19:52:37 <andythenorth_> alberth: use 64 shades or red
19:52:43 <andythenorth_> each corresponds to an industry ID :P
19:52:52 <andythenorth_> or / of /s
19:53:38 <Alberth> it somewhat defeats the idea of a heightmap if colors get meaning :)
19:54:05 <Alberth> not to mention, 64 shades of red are hard to distinguish :p
19:54:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i was thinking more like an accompanying text file, which lists location and possible input/output cargos
19:55:07 <andythenorth_> hmm
19:55:15 <andythenorth_> x-y positions?
19:55:19 <supermop> maybe the scenario editor could be used for associating what grfs are to be used
19:55:21 <andythenorth_> bound to map size?
19:55:31 <Eddi|zuHause> and if the GRF doesn't provide a matching industry, it picks a similar one, or# one at random
19:55:41 <andythenorth_> frosch123: town control would have the potential to transform gameplay...a lot
19:56:08 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r22286 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: [NewGRF] the c and p parts of station vars 40, 41 and 49 were incorrect for large stations
19:56:16 <supermop> i just want a way for the work of manually added rivers to be preserved across games with different sets loaded
19:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: coordinates are relative to image size, not map size. invalid coords get ignored
19:57:19 <supermop> currently if one wants a hydrologically sound map, the only way is to spend hours placing rivers in editor, which is ok
19:57:44 <supermop> but then if you decide that you want to use a new house set, you have to start all over
19:57:49 <Eddi|zuHause> supermop: i think it's not ok.
19:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> river placing is a seriously underdeveloped feature.
19:58:22 <Eddi|zuHause> both for random game and for heightmap
19:58:25 <andythenorth_> screw rivers :D
19:58:27 <andythenorth_> do towns
19:58:29 <andythenorth_> :P
19:58:35 <supermop> if i could save a .scn with no grf dependant features attached, to add to later, that would help
19:58:52 <supermop> and if i cant do that, saving the rivers to a png would help
19:59:04 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth_: towns can be done similar to my industries suggestion. list of coordinates, approximate size, and possibly name
19:59:13 <andythenorth_> I meant town control ;)
19:59:29 <Eddi|zuHause> oh.
19:59:32 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever :p
20:00:45 <supermop> well the map i am working on now is about a 500 mile square around st louis - i know most of the larger towns in the area anyway, so placing them isnt so bad,
20:01:20 <supermop> but i am chosing it not because i want to play in st louis, but because the geology of the area is interesting
20:02:03 <supermop> i could use it for completely ficticious towns, but at least i know the watersheds make sense
20:03:52 <supermop> anyway, those are my ideas on the matter so far
20:08:48 <LordAro> i need some advice on NWidget...
20:08:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22287 /extra/strgen/Makefile.sub: [strgen] -Fix: compilation of the strgen nightlies
20:09:49 <LordAro> The wiki seems basically non existent on the matter
20:10:01 <Alberth> shoot
20:10:44 <LordAro> on the newgrf info box, i want to add a button below it
20:11:04 <LordAro> (newgrf_gui.cpp, l1585)
20:11:11 <Alberth> exists :)
20:11:32 <LordAro> so it does :)
20:11:40 <Alberth> ah, you are trying a non-trivial window :)
20:13:03 <Alberth> hmm, I need to rebuild the program first :(
20:17:11 <Alberth> LordAro: below where?
20:17:31 <LordAro> below the newgrf info box
20:17:43 <Alberth> but there are already buttons there
20:18:07 <Alberth>
20:18:53 <LordAro> above them, linked to the selected newgrf
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20:20:27 <Alberth> LordAro: on the panel, near the bottom? (assuming you are doing a 'readme' button)
20:20:45 <LordAro> yes :) (to both)
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20:26:24 <Alberth>
20:26:41 <Alberth> the string is not correct, you need to create a new one
20:27:57 <LordAro> i guessed that amount. thanks! :D
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20:28:58 <LordAro> what's the STR_NULL for?
20:29:05 <Alberth> tooltip
20:29:14 <Alberth> ie it has none at the moment :)
20:29:19 <LordAro> i see
20:29:21 <LordAro> :D
20:29:56 <LordAro> now the complicated bit: teach ottd to look (and read) readmes... :)
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20:30:51 <Alberth> src/fio* somewhere
20:31:26 <Alberth> (but no idea where exactly :p )
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20:32:19 *** ChanServ sets mode: +v Alberth
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20:32:29 <Alberth> you'll also need to make a new window for the text, I think
20:35:27 <LordAro> thats what i was thinking
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20:47:22 <LordAro> Alberth: good start?
20:50:10 <Alberth> i would move it one line down (it is not a tooltip, it is a button text like lines 10 and 11), but otherwise it seems fine
20:50:47 <Alberth> but it does not make a huge difference :)
20:51:13 <Scuddles> Hmm, there is no openttd april fool's this year?
20:52:08 <Scuddles> Kind of interesting that 1.1.0 was released yesterday, considering 1.0.0 was released on the exact same day last year
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20:58:34 <LordAro> Alberth: gotcha. how might i 'grey out' the button if the readme is not available?
20:58:48 <LordAro> (i know i'm probably doing things in the wrong order :) )
20:59:03 <glx> something like disable
21:01:05 <Alberth> Window::DisableWidget() and friends
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21:01:37 <Alberth> it will not hurt to browse what methods exist in the Window class :)
21:01:45 <Yexo> Scuddles: and 0.7 exactly one year before that
21:01:54 <Scuddles> :o
21:02:44 <Yexo> it goes even one year further back, 0.6 was also on april 1st
21:02:58 <Alberth> it gets somewhat predictable :p
21:03:34 <frosch123> 0.6.x was the most predictable series datewise :)
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21:04:49 <flitz> hola, openttd
21:05:02 <Yexo> frosch123: only if you don't count the beta's before 0.6.0
21:05:13 <Scuddles> I remember the old days of 0.3.x with the old title screen and diesels using that grey smoke particle instead of the brown one
21:05:18 <frosch123> true
21:05:20 <Yexo> hello flitz
21:08:16 <frosch123> night
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21:09:53 <LordAro> Alberth: a line somewhere around l1122? (newgrf_gui.cpp)
21:12:51 <Alberth> this->SetWidgetDisabledState(SNGRFS_README, this->active_sel == NULL); would be my first guess
21:14:05 <Alberth> most of the buttons get disabled because they change newgrf state. your button does not
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21:26:48 <LordAro> Alberth: so, with my limited understanding, that line should go in 'case 0' of OnInvalidateData ?
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21:28:51 <Fixer> huh, pretty interesting. Fixed zoom hotkeys by deleting hotkeys.cfg :)
21:28:54 <Alberth> probably together with all the other widget enable/disable code
21:29:27 <Alberth> ie the cases do their special thing, then the widgets get updated every time
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21:30:24 <Alberth> Fixer: now try playing an openttd game by deleting the software :)
21:30:35 <drumspirit> hi all
21:30:40 <Alberth> hi
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21:31:51 <drumspirit> what's up here ?
21:32:35 <flitz> how or when exactly are things done to vehicles that arrive in a depot ? Like autoreplacing
21:33:07 <flitz> for autoreplace I found the CmdAutoreplaceVehicle but didn't find where it is actually called
21:34:02 <flitz> hi, drumspirit
21:34:19 <Alberth> iirc there is a callback when a vehicle is completely in a depot. That may be a good moment :)
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21:34:35 <Alberth> I don't know many details though in that part
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21:35:09 <drumspirit> hi back
21:35:21 <LordAro> Alberth: yes i see that now. so somewhere after that i should have an 'if (!readme_available) dostuff();' sort of thing?
21:36:31 <drumspirit> i can see there's a real community around openTtd
21:36:36 <drumspirit> that's cool
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21:37:03 <Alberth> LordAro: I'd only do 'open the readme window' here, and do everything else in that code
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21:37:27 <Alberth> by convention that should be a ShowFoo() function :)
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21:38:14 <LordAro> hmmm
21:39:44 <LordAro> i'll have to have another look at it tomorrow
21:40:18 <LordAro> but before i go, define 'here' :)
21:41:18 <Alberth> flitz: CommandCost ret = DoCommand(0, v->index, 0, flags, CMD_AUTOREPLACE_VEHICLE); <-- a generic DoCommand calls Cmd* functions
21:41:51 <Alberth> in the function that handles 'readme button clicked'
21:41:57 <Alberth> LordAro: ^
21:42:39 <LordAro> ok, thanks again Alberth
21:42:42 <LordAro> night all
21:42:45 <drumspirit> hey Alberth, i have a question
21:42:46 <Alberth> hmm, that may be sub-optimal
21:42:47 <drumspirit> good night
21:43:15 <drumspirit> i saw you are on the openDune channel, can i understand there's a version of Dune on Linux ?
21:43:15 <LordAro> Alberth: i'll leave myself online, so just say whatever ;)
21:43:25 <LordAro> bye
21:43:26 <Alberth> as you have to find out whether there is a readme
21:43:29 <Alberth> bye LordAro
21:43:58 <Alberth> drumspirit: @topic -3
21:44:05 <Alberth> @topic -3
21:44:05 <DorpsGek> Alberth: topic [<channel>]
21:44:16 <glx> drumspirit: dune2 not dune
21:44:18 <Alberth> grr :)
21:44:23 <glx> @topic get -3
21:44:23 <DorpsGek> glx: Don't ask to ask, just ask
21:44:30 <flitz> thanks alberth
21:44:41 <drumspirit> glx: dune2, pretty much better :) my first game on a computer when i was a teen
21:45:06 <drumspirit> i'll employ myself to download it, i love dune2
21:45:22 <drumspirit> glx: thanks for the info btw
21:45:32 <Alberth> drumspirit: weird place to ask this :)
21:45:46 <drumspirit> Alberth: my apologies
21:45:58 <Alberth> np :)
21:46:07 <drumspirit> that was just a question, i'm not used to play much games on linux
21:46:35 <drumspirit> if i knew dune2 was playable on linux sooner, i would have installed it already
21:47:58 <flitz> with wine or is there a linux implemenation ?
21:48:15 <Alberth> without wine :)
21:48:26 <glx> it's playable, but it often hangs and can crash too
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21:48:59 <Alberth> last release is already quite old
21:49:05 <drumspirit> glx: arg
21:49:10 <flitz> I only play MagicWorkstation on linux, and kmines and openttd of course :)
21:49:23 <drumspirit> Alberth: i am downloading it
21:49:40 <glx> drumspirit: but we need players (testers ;) )
21:49:50 <Alberth> flitz: quite addicted to solitaire atm :)
21:50:00 <drumspirit> my computer is a netbook so 3d games are not running on it
21:50:20 <Alberth> I never bothered to set it up :)
21:50:58 <drumspirit> glx: i discoverd openTTD a few months ago, and did not get the time to play untill a few days ago
21:51:07 <flitz> alberth: the spider-version ? I found it quite hard on the all-colour version so I stuck around with the minesweeper clickfest
21:51:34 <drumspirit> i'll try dunelegacy this evening
21:52:02 <Alberth> spider is hard yes. I've done that some time, currently I play mostly 'freecell'
21:52:18 <flitz> but openttd is on hold as long as the template stuff isn't done :)
21:53:10 <Alberth> yeah, coding really eats game time :)
21:53:50 <drumspirit> i am not a coder, well i code on php, C/CC++ but i'm a novice, i only can develop console programs. Sorry guys :/
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21:55:24 <flitz> hm drumspirit, I'm not really a novice to c/c++ but starting to code in openttd is a little bit like learing from scratch sometimes ... there is just so much stuff already to get into
21:55:57 <flitz> so no big disadvantage for you there probably ;)
21:57:20 <drumspirit> flitz: i know what you mean, i didn't thought you were a novice, i did not want to mean you were a novice :)
21:58:08 <drumspirit> that must be a huge work to code a game such as openttd
21:58:50 <flitz> I know you didn't think that :)
21:59:13 <Alberth> you never start with something like openttd at first, you slowly grow towards it :)
21:59:28 <flitz> when did this start ? 200[smallnumber?]
21:59:31 <drumspirit> Alberth: you're right
21:59:51 <flitz> but the intention was to clone ttd from the beginning, wasn't it ?
22:01:07 <Alberth> smallnumber=3, it seems :)
22:01:30 <drumspirit> this intention reached its goal i guess
22:01:38 <flitz> ah, i was guessing a 1 or 2
22:01:41 <Alberth> I wasn't here at that time :)
22:02:19 <Alberth> before there was probably a lot of knowledge from TTDPatch
22:02:43 <Alberth> so 1 or 2 is a fair estimate, I think
22:06:49 <flitz> Its a great piece of work either way, when I first played openttd I was surprised how close (eh, the same) it looked to ttd and how much nicer it played
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22:07:16 <drumspirit> flitz: yeah i was impressed too
22:07:58 <Alberth> wait until you wait the hidden CTL key functions :)
22:08:38 <Alberth> *find
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22:21:44 <__ln__> evening, wookies
22:23:24 <Alberth> not any more here :)
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22:33:06 <flitz> gn8 all
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22:34:25 <Maarten> Is there any documentation available for the new "admin interface" on openttd 1.1?
22:34:58 <Yexo> docs/admin_network.txt
22:37:49 <Maarten> Nope. Not on the windows version anyways.
22:38:38 <Yexo> you can view it online here:
22:40:07 <Maarten> cool
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22:58:38 <SmatZ> bah @ spamfilter moving all emails from certain person to the spam bin
22:58:55 *** supermop has quit IRC
22:59:00 <SmatZ> I marked like 10 emails from him as "it's not a spam"
22:59:25 <SmatZ> too bad I don't have any control over that filter :/
23:07:54 <Wolf01> 'night
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23:08:49 <drumspirit> shutting down the comp. for a while, see you later guys
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