IRC logs for #openttd on OFTC at 2011-03-31
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12:50:56 <Eddi|zuHause> that's weird: i have 70 recycling depots in 1920
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14:06:30 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i need a ship with 45t capacity, but there's only one with 35t or 85t
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17:36:06 <BenW_> can anyone recommend a good set of NewGRF packs to use, looking for trams, branded aircraft, and whatever else might be good?
17:38:26 <planetmaker> taste is as diverse as there are players
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17:39:36 <planetmaker> I'd go for heqs, egrvts or LongVehicles, GenericTrams
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17:40:44 <Alberth> (I am not daring such greetings after yesterdays laser, papyrus, and what not :) )
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17:44:47 <confound> andythenorth: I know there's been conversation about changing how supplies work in firs -- what are you currently thinking? do you like it the way it is?
17:45:58 <confound> I mean I have seen comments about not liking the "set up a 3-tile truck route to deliver 2 crates/onth"
17:51:48 <andythenorth> confound: I am happy with supplies the way it is
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17:53:49 <confound> is there a technical reason why one couldn't do something like "primary industry accepts supplies and processes them itself over time" to avoid the tiny delivery route? not asking you to include that, wondering how hard it would be for someone else to do if they wanted it
17:54:01 <andythenorth> they could do it
17:54:25 <andythenorth> its approximately what ECS does
17:54:34 <andythenorth> therefore it would seem better to just play ECS
17:55:07 <andythenorth> it also has the disadvantage of being uninteresting
17:55:09 <confound> doesn't ECS also have acceptance limits on secondary industries? that seems like a much bigger change than the supplies
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17:56:05 <confound> setting up identical 3-tile truck routes for everything is uninteresting too
17:56:21 <planetmaker> then use another solution
17:56:32 <planetmaker> like setting up a round trip
17:57:06 <confound> that seems like it would be way less efficient though, or much more tedious to time well
17:57:19 <planetmaker> besides I like the idea of regional distribution centres. It actually makes sense and - behold - is even realistic :-P
17:57:21 <andythenorth> on the slow processing model, here is what is required:
17:57:27 <andythenorth> build one 2,000t train
17:57:35 <andythenorth> route it to each industry once
17:57:52 <andythenorth> each industry will have 160 years of supplies
17:57:53 <confound> andythenorth: I was thinking more that the industries would not accept more than, say, 1 year's worth of supplies at a time
17:58:06 <planetmaker> then you have ecs acceptance limits
17:58:13 <planetmaker> what you exactly just complained about
17:58:20 <andythenorth> and then 'FIRS has stockpiling, I hate FIRS'
17:58:25 <confound> for specific secondary industries
17:58:32 <confound> that you don't expect to make money anyway
17:58:35 <andythenorth> and simply n requests to 'increase the stockpile limit'
17:58:47 <andythenorth> we shipped an early release of FIRS with stockpiling
17:59:02 <confound> stockpiling for everything is not what I suggested
17:59:09 <confound> and this is also why I said "I am not asking you to include this"
17:59:10 <andythenorth> I mean wrt supplies
17:59:11 * Alberth is very happy with lack of stockpile limits
17:59:21 <andythenorth> confound: yes, it would be possible
17:59:22 <confound> because of the 2000t train situation?
17:59:41 <andythenorth> if you go back sufficiently far in the repo, there is code for it, complete with configurable limits ;)
17:59:57 <confound> why didn't people like it?
18:00:09 <Alberth> why don't you like ECS ?
18:00:42 <andythenorth> limits hurt your network
18:00:46 <confound> doesn't ECS have limits on *all* cargos?
18:00:55 <peter1138> Limitatio disturbs me
18:01:19 <andythenorth> TTD towns do it the FIRS way in arctic and tropic
18:01:25 <andythenorth> and Chris Sawyer got *most* stuff right
18:01:28 <Alberth> it is virtually impossible to get the balance right, so you are constantly adjusting trains etc.
18:01:43 <andythenorth> this way is more fun
18:01:50 <confound> or letting supplies build up at the station, I guess
18:02:03 <andythenorth> the 3 tile truck route is a little....odd
18:02:13 <andythenorth> for starters it could be 1 station tile + depot
18:02:39 <confound> still tedious and not fun (for me), unlike everything else about firs
18:02:56 <confound> anyway, I am exploring options, not saying what I think is better or what everyone else should like
18:03:02 <andythenorth> building routes is not fun?
18:03:47 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS wiki page might be best edited....
18:03:53 <confound> not the "tiny delivery of supplies" ones, no
18:03:58 <confound> because they are the same everywhere
18:04:08 <andythenorth> build a couple of trucks, route them?
18:04:12 <andythenorth> yes, I know what you mean
18:04:53 <andythenorth> perhaps think of things that would take the existing mechanic and make it more fun....
18:05:05 <andythenorth> there have been suggestions by others
18:05:19 <andythenorth> confound: aren't routes from coal mines the same everywhere?
18:05:27 <confound> no, they depend on local terrain
18:05:33 <confound> since I do not play on a totally flat map
18:05:39 <confound> with everything in a grid
18:06:05 <andythenorth> I play on mountainous with high water FWIW
18:08:03 <George> andythenorth: There is a parameter in ECS to switch off stockpiling limits
18:09:27 <andythenorth> confound: you use RVs for supplies?
18:09:59 <confound> depends. not in 1850 :) (except the monthly delivery)
18:10:58 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: i think i have a FIRS bug: the recycling depot is generated in large quantities in 1920 (like factor 10 more than all other industries)
18:11:39 <confound> andythenorth: usually I use whatever network is used to gather cargo
18:11:53 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: that is a bug :D
18:12:08 <andythenorth> confound: so small trains?
18:12:36 <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: would you mind filing a reeeport
18:12:37 <confound> sure, depending on what you mean by "small"
18:12:51 <Eddi|zuHause> andythenorth: where?
18:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i spotted some other bug-ish, but i forgot what it was... :/
18:13:41 <confound> 25%-50% of the size of the other trains on those lines
18:13:57 <andythenorth> confound: does it work ok?
18:14:04 <andythenorth> I don't use trains much for supplies
18:14:06 <Eddi|zuHause> and: in some places, english strings show up
18:14:32 <confound> yes, except when I accidentally give them wagons/engines that make them too fast and they cause delays by stopping and starting a lot
18:15:28 <confound> or cutting between big freight trains and making them have to stop
18:16:22 <andythenorth> you should add that to the wiki page :)
18:18:21 <planetmaker> [20:14] Eddi|zuHause and: in some places, english strings show up <-- that will be my fault then
18:19:04 <confound> or did you mean the engine thing?
18:19:13 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: e.g. in the glass works, it produces "manufacturing supplies" instead of "Produktionsgüter"
18:22:54 <confound> andythenorth: ok, added it
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18:33:51 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: and recycling depot lacks a gender (or is not translated at all)
18:34:13 <planetmaker> which firs version?
18:37:21 * andythenorth wonders if FIRS needs more wiki pages :P
18:37:39 <andythenorth> there are completely alternative and more sane ways to deliver supplies
18:37:57 <andythenorth> the train + 3 tile truck route looks clever, but isn't
18:38:25 <andythenorth> early in the game supplies are in short supply, or should be
18:38:54 <andythenorth> locking up hundreds of tonnes of them as inventory at stations is a *bad* idea
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18:40:01 <andythenorth> one 60 crate trainload could supply 60 different industries for one month
18:40:07 <andythenorth> or 5 industries for a year each
18:40:20 * andythenorth considers reducing amount of supplies available on the map
18:40:42 <Alberth> planetmaker: I was too optimistic, there are more such typos
18:41:20 <andythenorth> Alberth: I cannot type recylables for the life of me
18:41:27 <andythenorth> I have had so many build errors due to this
18:41:35 <andythenorth> I should just call it 'kibble'
18:41:40 <andythenorth> which I can spell :P
18:41:58 * andythenorth needs a FIRS wiki slave
18:42:11 <Alberth> how much does it pay?
18:42:33 <andythenorth> it pays well in whuffle
18:43:01 <andythenorth> there are at least 3 ways to deliver supplies, each probably worth its own wiki page, linked from FIRS main page
18:43:15 <Alberth> andythenorth: not being able to type it correctly makes recycables a bad cargo, doesn't :)
18:43:37 <andythenorth> I shall now remove all references to it
18:43:52 * andythenorth will actually go to the pub for once
18:43:59 <andythenorth> a rare event post-baby
18:45:11 <andythenorth> 'someone' should explain how to deliver supplies using the straightforward route of 'build a road network'
18:45:21 <andythenorth> and 'buy trucks with low capacity and good speed'
18:45:33 <confound> so when I start at 1850 using nars, what good speed trucks are you suggesting? :P
18:45:40 <andythenorth> there aren't any
18:45:43 <andythenorth> it's hard then :P
18:45:59 <andythenorth> and eGRVTS is broken wrt realistic acceleration
18:46:14 <andythenorth> someone should code a packhors
18:47:00 <confound> yeah, I had it turned on once and wondered why my horses couldn't move
18:47:09 <andythenorth> eGRVTS gives you a nice steam cargo tram in 1860
18:47:16 <andythenorth> it's ideal for supplies
18:47:50 <andythenorth> but otherwise yes, at that point, I concede to trains :)
18:47:50 <confound> it's slower than the carriages are
18:48:22 <confound> nothing goes faster than the 16mph 4 (or 6? I forget) horse carriages for a while
18:48:55 <confound> but then the trains are pretty expensive too, and it sucks as much to tie them up delivering 1 crate to a mine as it does to tie up the crates in station inventory :)
18:49:29 <andythenorth> confound: you are using the lumber yard for supplies in 1850?
18:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> am i supposed to get a registration mail from devzone?
18:50:14 <andythenorth> is that chain good? I haven't used it in my test game
18:50:33 * Alberth ponders how to translate recyclables
18:51:00 <confound> it worked out pretty well, but I was playing sort of on easy mode (no primary industry closing)
18:51:10 <andythenorth> confound: I play that too ;)
18:51:12 <planetmaker> but into Dutch...
18:51:18 <andythenorth> primaries shouldn't close, it's boring
18:51:35 <confound> no supply reduction either?
18:51:42 <confound> I can't remember firs parameters
18:51:47 <confound> I also think it's boring but I feel guilty :)
18:51:48 <Alberth> doesn't sound very good imho
18:52:10 <confound> anyway, I ended up building a steel mill 10 squares away from the iron works so that I wouldn't have to rebuild all the infrastructure
18:52:21 <andythenorth> that's kind of one of the intentions
18:52:29 <andythenorth> if you can afford it...
18:52:43 * andythenorth has no good answer to 'fast vehicles for supplies in 1850'
18:52:52 <andythenorth> trains are the only fast vehicle you'll get
18:53:06 <andythenorth> early games are not supposed to be easy / fast
18:53:17 <confound> well, luckily for me, supplies weren't as rare as you want them to be
18:53:18 <Alberth> recyclables as cargo are somewhat weird, they would usually get sorted
18:53:19 <confound> so I didn't have problems :)
18:53:33 <andythenorth> Alberth: so would goods :P
18:53:35 <Hirundo> Alberth: "Herbruikbare goederen" ?
18:53:38 <confound> it was a huge boost when I got the iron ore -> metal -> supplies -> mines cycle going though
18:53:57 <Alberth> Hirundo: sounds better :)
18:54:21 <Hirundo> It still makes me prefer english, though :)
18:54:38 <Alberth> andythenorth: useful, you can immediately ship the waste back to the houses :p
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19:28:57 <Neon> Hello. Does anyone know something about the distant_join_station and join_stations settings (station settings in openttd.cfg)? They're not described on the wiki and I'm not sure what they do but it may be interesting.
19:30:00 <planetmaker> try to build a station with ctrl+click somewhere near another station
19:31:14 <Neon> Ok then let me guess: join_stations will enable this ctrl+click feature (new station will belong to the present one) and distant_join_station will enable using a higher distance
19:31:50 <Neon> I'm currently configuring a dedicated server, so testing is not so comfortable - don't even know if these settings have an effect for dedicated servers.
19:32:53 <planetmaker> that depends. If you upload a savegame: then not. If you just start a random game: yes
19:33:05 <planetmaker> and testing can be done conveniently locally
19:33:44 <Neon> Ok thanks for your help.
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20:24:14 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... timetable window needs some width adjustmen...
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21:10:46 <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 350*8-2780
21:16:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22281 /branches/1.1/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
21:16:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Backport from trunk:
21:16:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: In the scenario editor you could build a ship depot using the appropriate hotkey. Removing that depot causes an assertion to trigger [FS#4558] (r22266)
21:16:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [1.1] -Prepare: 1.1.0
21:19:57 <Wolf01> april fool as every year?
21:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if you presume it takes >45min
21:21:38 <Rubidium> building definitely does
21:22:03 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22282 /tags/1.1.0/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: 1.1.0
21:22:51 <Eddi|zuHause> mäh... these pesky freight trains screw up all my schedules...
21:23:15 <supermop> schedule them at night
21:25:01 <Twerkhoven[L]> its always night somewhere
21:25:06 <Rubidium> supermop: can't, then the maintainance has to happen
21:26:54 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r22283 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Merge from 1.1: documentation updates/release changes
21:30:36 <supermop> well, at least thats what i try to do when i play with departure boards
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22:10:43 *** ar3k is now known as ar3kaw
22:35:59 *** DorpsGek changes topic to "1.1.0 | Website: *.openttd.org (translator: translator, server list: servers, wiki: wiki, patches & bug-reports: bugs, revision log: vcs, release info: finger) | Don't ask to ask, just ask | 'Latest' is not a valid version | English only"
23:00:50 <perk11> 1.1.0 is the stablest ever, lol
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23:04:47 <frosch123> already found a bug? :p
23:04:55 <frosch123> or do you want to change your nick into perk110
23:05:41 *** perk11 is now known as perk1_1_0
23:16:50 <Fixer> congrats with releaase!
23:23:49 <Eddi|zuHause> you realize that "110" means police ;)
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23:37:13 <SmatZ> 110 (one hundred [and] ten) is the natural number following 109 and preceding 111.
23:37:27 <SmatZ> wow, thanks wiki, I wouldn't know
23:38:15 <Wolf01> there are all the numbers? wikipedia should then know the value of infinite :o
23:55:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think Wolf01 understood the concept of induction :p
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